WEBVTT - (BONUS) The mindset shift that saved Holly Wainwright from burning out, again 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.000 I have not mastered how to portion out my energy 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.240 in anything that looks like an even way. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.640 Every year, Holly Wainwright tells herself she won't burn out again, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.639 and every year she does. When Holly told me that, 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.880 I laughed, not because it's funny, but because I've been 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.840 there too. Last year, I hit my own wall of 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:29.000 absolute exhaustion so hard that it became the inspiration for 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.880 my next book. In this bonus episode, Holly and I 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.600 talk honestly about the cycles that we fall into, the doing, 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.280 the crashing, the promising it's going to be different next time, 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.559 and why breaking that loop is so much harder than 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.120 it sounds. Holly, who is a best selling author and 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.960 co hosts Mama Mia out Loud, shares how she's still 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.040 learning to protect her time, her focus, and her health 0:00:54.600 --> 0:01:07.120 even when life and work don't make it easy. Welcome 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:11.920 to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:12.800 For optimizing your date. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:21.360 I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. Something that you've written 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:26.000 about over the years is burnout and exhaustion, and it's 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:32.080 something that I really related to, particularly last year. I've 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.880 spoken and written quite a lot around how twenty twenty 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.080 four was just a year of complete and out of 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:42.040 burnout for me like I've never ever experienced. And that's 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.560 really what prompted book number five, which is the working title, 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.680 which maybe the real title is the Energy Game, and 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.200 it's about how to get more of it. I would 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.240 love to know for you, where are you at right 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.120 now in terms of your energy. 0:01:58.320 --> 0:01:59.320 It's so funny. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.000 Need a therapy session with you at manth on this 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:06.680 because this is something I have not solved. Almost every 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.120 year I say I'm not gonna get myself to that 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:11.840 place again. And I've made a lot of I have 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.519 made a lot of changes in my working life over 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.440 the past few years in terms of I used to 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.320 manage teams of people. I used to be much more 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.120 corporately involved in Mamma Mia. I used to have a 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.119 million meetings a day and constantly be running to someone 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.360 else's schedule, and that has shifted over the past few years. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.240 Now my work is mostly content focused, so obviously I 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.000 record Mamma Mia out loud, and I write things and 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.440 do things for Mamma Mea, but I try. I've reorganized 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.440 my life and my time to be more portioned out 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.840 and my dream has always been to be in charge 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:46.840 of my own time. And I'm not there yet, but 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:48.920 one day I will be. I'm much I'm certainly much 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.080 closer to it than I was, but burnout and energy, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.840 I'm still not great at So my word of this 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.240 year was not because the idea was. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:02:59.840 And I always roll. 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.680 My as a tiny bit when successful people say you've 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:03.919 got to learn to say no to things, because it's 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.680 a position of amazing privilege to be in to be 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.880 asked for things all the time, right, It's a position 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.960 of amazing privilege to be like, no, I don't want 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.240 to go to your event, I don't want to do 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.240 your you know, speak at your thing like I mean, 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.840 these are all really champagne problems. The question I always 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:22.480 ask myself is am I putting my energy in the 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.959 right place? Or am I just running for the sake 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:26.960 of that? As I talk to you now, I've just 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.480 come off being really sick. I had influenza A and 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.440 I was absolutely smashed for three weeks, pretty much like 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:37.480 I had to spend a whole week in bed. I 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.920 lost my voice completely for almost ten days. I got 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.520 completely gone, and it took me a long time to recover. Now, 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.480 influenza A is going around this winter, and it is 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.240 a nasty strain. And I'm not going to like pretend 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.120 that I got that because of this or because of that. 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.680 But what's funny is that the people in my life, 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:57.560 including my partner Brent. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.880 He's just like, this happens to you. He's like, you 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:02.480 don't get sick because I was. 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.800 Really what I was really worried about is early this year, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.800 when the book came out, I was on tour with 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.120 Mama mir out loud. It was the busiest time I 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.360 can remember for a very long time. I was doing 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.279 big live shows, lots of book promotion, appearances at Riders festivals, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.400 on planes, off planes, da da da da da. And 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.359 I was obsessed with not getting sick, obsessed sleep, no drinking, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.280 healthy food, a million armor forced tablets, like just whatever. 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.400 And I did not get sick, Amantha, I did not. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.599 I was very proud of myself. But then come this August, 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.760 I just almost September. Really, I absolutely smashed for three 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:38.640 weeks and. 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:40.240 Says, this always happens to you. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.039 Says you never get sick a little bit, you don't 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.320 get sick at all, or you get completely stuck to 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.880 the bed sick, and there's me. I'm god, that's not true, 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:49.760 that's not true. 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:51.360 What are you talking about. I'm never sick. 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:53.760 And then I saw another old friend and she was like, 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.440 this always happens to you. She says, you you're doing 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.239 a million things and then you just collapse. 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.280 And I'm like, it's not true. Maybe it's true. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.599 So I've just I'm rebuilding after this sickness, and you 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:08.920 know how you do this when you're coming off something 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:09.320 like that. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.039 I've got to change everything. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.560 I don't know if you're like that too, but I'm like, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.359 I've got to change everything. I've got a very busy 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.920 October with lots of events too, and lots of travel. 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.000 I need to make sure I'm portioning out my energy. 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.720 I've been a bit disorganized, as you know, because I 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.240 was meant to talk to you last week and I 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.240 managed to forget all about it. So I'm on that 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.520 train at the minute of trying to hold on to 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:36.440 it again. So I guess this is a very long 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.039 way of saying to you, I have not mastered how 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.560 to portion out my energy in anything that looks like 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:48.400 an even way, and I still haven't figured out what 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.279 you really need to write a book because you would 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.600 know even though this is this will be my sixth time, 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.400 the book I'm writing now is some uninterrupted focused time. 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.480 I don't mean for days and days, but place where 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.159 you can let your head just go, let have some 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:03.200 space to think. 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.560 I am still really bad at it. 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.400 I haven't figured it out, and I would like some advice. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.000 How do I stop myself from crashing? 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:15.360 Well? 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:17.200 I would love to know, like, what are some of 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.679 the changes that you've made over the last few years 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.200 that have made a difference, because it sounds like the 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.720 Holly now is in a better place than say, Holly 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:27.720 three years ago. 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:29.159 Is that fair to say? 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.560 That's definitely true. What I try and do now is 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.200 practically because I lived two hours away from Sydney, which 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.120 is where the Mom and Mere studios are, and now 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.600 obviously we record all our podcasts for video and everything, 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.760 so being in studio is very important. I've kind of 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.280 portioned up my week like practically in terms of, well, 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.520 this part of the week is this focus, and this 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:50.320 part of the week. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:50.960 Is that focus. 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.000 Now that generally runs okay until it doesn't. You know how, 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.240 It's inevitable that things will pop up that are on 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.839 different days in different places. But it also means that 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.080 I'm away from the family generally at the beginning of 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.240 the week, which can be quite guilt inducing. But I've 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.479 just Brent and I and the kids have discussed this 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.600 a lot, is that it's actually just better for me 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.280 to do that, to go, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.040 I'm often in the city. It's very intensive work time. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.200 I will work at night, I will get everything, a 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:20.800 lot of things done, so that then later in the 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.440 week when I'm home, i'm home, you know, I'm more 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.840 present and I can be in charge of my call 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.440 and take the kids to this or that, you know, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.480 that kind of thing, cooked dinner, all those things that 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.560 I couldn't, to be honest, necessarily do when we were 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.000 all living in the city. But I was on a 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:41.200 much more nine to five schedule that generally works having 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:46.320 that kind of focus. I'm trying to be much kinder 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.880 to myself about that too, in terms of I know 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.200 it's a bit unconventional, it's not what everybody would do, 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.240 but it works for the moment. I also, in terms 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.920 of my creative time, what works for me, which isn't 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.120 very creative at all, is I have to schedule it. 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.560 Say it's a Friday and I'm writing, and this is 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.520 what happened to us last week. I have to put 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.440 certain things in place to try and make my focus 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.560 be on my creative work, which include devices in the 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.960 house no Internet, because I'm as susceptible to it as 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.600 anybody to be immediately distracted by social media notifications, all 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.480 those things. You know, I forced myself to go, right, 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.200 this is an hour where it's just me and the laptop, 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.760 and the laptop that doesn't have all my connections on it. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.080 And that's what happened to us last week. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:35.120 When I was meant to talk to you, I'd forgotten, 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.640 and then I wasn't at my calendar all my anyway, so. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:41.320 I tried to put Holly. 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.520 I got to say, I actually find that quite impressive 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.319 that you are able to just unplug, because I think 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.920 a lot of people talk about it, but you had 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.040 literally just unplugged last Friday, like there was no way 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.920 I could have contacted you, and you are obviously very 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.440 in the zone, which I actually think is quite admirable. 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:00.880 I've in the fact that I wanted to speak to 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.720 you last week, but I was actually quite impressed as well. 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.880 Well, it's if you'd have had my phone number, you 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.120 could have got me, because I do still I would 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:15.360 see text messages if they popped up from on my watch. Unfortunately, however, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.679 I have to do it partly for my other professional work, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.280 for my mum and mere work. I can justify the 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.679 fact that being on social media, being across everything that's happening, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.160 being connected is work, and it is in a way. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:33.440 But what I've learned is that I can schedule that 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.160 check in time I have to, because otherwise I will 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.160 be sitting at my laptop trying to get through a 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.719 difficult part of a book, because writing is a lot 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:44.960 of problem solving, and as we all know, when you 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.000 come up against something that's tricky and difficult, I immediately 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.640 reach for the distraction. And if the distraction is to hand, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:58.079 and it's Instagram on my browser or you know, news 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.280 headline on my phone, I'll lose myself in that, and 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.520 then that'll be an hour gone, and then I'll feel 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.720 kind of grubby about that. I'll get to the end 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.679 of the day and I won't have made any progress. 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.640 And it's not to say I can't very easily procrastinate 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.439 without a screen because I can, Like. 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.720 I'll be like, oh that shelf needs cleaning. 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:21.199 Oh the flowers outside my shed, like they really need 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.720 But I do I have to go on Fridays in particular, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.920 I'd say to the muma mea team who if they 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.840 do need me for anything, text me. I'm not checking 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.680 my slack, I'm not looking at my you know, I'm 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.440 just not because otherwise I just won't get it done. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.040 My focus is terrible. I know I'm not alone in this. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.840 I know it's a massive topic of conversation for you, 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:47.440 and I do genuinely believe and again not an original thought, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.840 that our phones have killed our focus. So yeah, so 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.120 I do have to unplug. And then the other thing 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.920 I do is I give myself little rewards. So as 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.560 lots of people know, I love my garden, my veggie 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.640 beds have become my complete opposite. So if I'm at 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.640 home and i'm writing, I'll be like, if i get 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.640 this number of words done, or I've done two hours, 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.400 I'm allowed to go and fiddle around in my worm 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.720 farm for a while, or go and steak my tomatoes 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.480 or whatever it is, Like, I'm allowed to do that. 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.840 But if I haven't, then I'm not like I'm not allowed, 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.439 you know, So I have to kind of gain a 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:20.720 fire to a point. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.280 I love that worm farms a reward for you. For me, 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:25.319 that would be punishment. 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:25.720 I know. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:30.800 Burnout doesn't always look like falling apart. Sometimes it's just 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.920 saying yes over and over until you realize there's nothing 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:39.000 left in the tank. Coming up, Holly talks about her 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.439 year of NAP and the ways she's trying and sometimes 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:50.600 failing to put her energy where it matters most. If 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.240 you're looking for more tips to improve the way you 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.480 work can live. I write a short weekly newsletter that 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.120 contains tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. You 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.480 can sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:12.400 Amantha dot com. Coming back to your word of the year, nup, 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.600 Where did that go wrong? Like have you found yourself 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.320 saying yes instead of no? Or like what has happened there? 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.480 So the idea about nupp was about this thing about 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.360 putting your energy, which is sounds very much where your 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.760 book is. You're putting your energy on the things that matter, 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.200 you know. So there are things for my work, my career, 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.240 whatever it is, that are very important and will move 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.640 things forward, and that's worthy of energy, right. But then 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.240 there's a whole lot of stuff that's just nice to have, 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:43.960 nice to do, or someone else wants you to do 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.559 it more than you want to do it, that you 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.960 can say yes to, and suddenly your calendar fills with 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.559 things that are taking you, in my case, literally taking 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:56.439 me away from my family that are really not that important, right, 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.600 I mean, well, important is the wrong word, not that 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.400 crucial to the main aim. So the idea of KNAP 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.080 was to say no, but with lightness, like I don't 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.800 want to be you know I again, as I say, 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.840 I recognize the privileged position to be in somewhere where 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.880 somebody wants you to do something. So I don't want 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.839 to be like no, everything's no. It's just more like. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.720 No, that's not for me this week. 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.080 Where has fallen down is that there are lots of 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.280 things that I want I like doing, you know, like 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.480 so for example, and this is not in any if 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.360 I get asked to go and interview somebody exciting, but 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.120 it's going to take me away from home for a 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:34.560 couple of days, and it's going to take me away 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:35.959 from the book for a couple of days and it's 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.240 not going to pay particularly well or it's not gonna 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.520 Like in the theory of NUP, I should say no. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.160 But in the theory of Holly who likes to do 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:50.480 fun stuff, and also I would say yes. So I 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:55.720 still find myself looking at the month of October, for example, 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.640 looking at the calendar across the month of October and 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.840 being like, whoa, I did not say no to anything, 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.000 and I'm barely here. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:06.240 I mean a lot. 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.040 It'll all be fun and it'll all be great, But 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.040 is it really true to the mission of Nope. 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:12.200 No, it's not. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.760 But I'm also trying to be kind to myself, and 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:16.280 I'd love to know what you think about this is 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.600 that some months are just like that, right, So what 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.000 I'm trying to do instead, because what I'll do is 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.080 I'll look at the calendar for here for the next month, 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:25.640 and it's crazy, and I'll be. 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.880 Like, oh, Holly, you're an idiot. Why did you do that? 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:29.680 Why did you say yes, it's going to be this, 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.240 it's going to be that. And instead I just need. 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.760 To go that's October, Like November will be great and 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:36.520 I'll be back with the family and it'll be fine. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:37.920 I don't know what's your advice. 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.000 Well, I think that one of my favorite strategies for 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.200 people that think that they should say no more but 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.680 they're overloaded and they want to be generous and they 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.240 want to do fun things is a strategy and I 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.480 heard it on How I Work many years ago. 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:57.200 It's the yes but strategy. 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.600 And so when you're asked to do something, you say 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.040 yes because it sounds like you want to say yes 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.560 because you're getting a lot of fun things presented to you. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.560 But then the butt is the boundary. So it might 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.480 be yes, I can do an in conversation live with you, 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.800 but it has to be on a Tuesday night when 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:16.240 I'm going to be in Sydney anyway. 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:17.960 Or yes, I can. 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:22.120 Help brainstorm this project or this new podcast idea that 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.080 you've got, you know person at Muma Mea, But I've 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:26.960 only got twenty minutes and it has to be at 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:31.840 this time, and so it's yes, but boundary. So I 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.880 would love for you to try that maybe during October 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.040 that we're heading into and see if that can create 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:39.840 a less chaotic November for you. 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:41.760 Can you do that and report back to me, Holly, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:42.840 I will. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.440 I will, because that's great, because I think that that's 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.800 exactly it is. That it's not about this hard like 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.800 I just don't do things. It's about I will do that, 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.920 but it has to fit in with the master plan, 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.360 whatever the master plan is, which is to protect the 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.480 part of my life life that is about my family 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.680 and my creative work. Because and I think that for 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.800 a lot of and I might be generalizing here, for 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.960 a lot of women, there's a guilt about the fact 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.880 that somehow often the most important things to me are 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.160 the ones that slide to the bottom of the priority list. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.920 Like if I really think about it, you know, obviously 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.960 being home for the kids, you know, and being able 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.400 to do that, Like, that's incredibly important to me, but 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:31.240 somehow it very often gets deprioritized. And you know, the book, 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.160 Like having the space to write books and do them 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.200 really well is incredibly important to me. And yet it's 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.680 often that kind of work that gets shoved in little 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:44.400 corners around lots of other busy things that aren't as important. Yeah, 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.120 So I think that the kind of plan about not 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.240 was in was the spirit of it is about that, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.960 about the things that actually really matter. Why are they 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.960 always the things that somehow are being shoved around the 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.760 things that don't matter so much. Of course, my core 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.720 mom and Mia work of Mama Mia out loud and 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:07.239 mid and that is incredibly important, But there's just a 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.679 lot of other stuff, you know, and so it's about 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.560 trying to be very clear about that. 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:18.280 Yeah, let me give you one other tip, because I'm curious, like, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.720 have you ever said yes to something where you've just 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:26.240 completely regretted it and in the moment you're just thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.560 Like I think that we all have. I definitely have. 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.439 And so something else and I'm writing about this in 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.879 the book is the idea of a never again list, 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.600 And for me, one of the things so I do 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.640 a lot of keynote speaking. I get asked a little 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:44.439 a lot of speaking, and somewhat not super regularly, but 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.840 it happens enough that I will get asked to speak 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.679 at a dinner event. And in my lifetime I've spoken 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:55.480 at a handful of these, and every single one of them, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.040 I think bar one has just been. I've left the 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:03.280 event and I thought why, Like my content is around 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:07.440 self optimization. People are drunk. No one wants to hear 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.720 about how to be a better person when they are 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.520 drunk and they're just wondering is chocolate on the dessert menu? 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.719 But I keep saying yes because I think, oh, this 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:16.600 one will be different. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:18.400 And then I thought, I need to do. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.560 Something different here. I am going to start a never 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.199 again list, and top of my list is never again 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.639 will I speak at a dinner event, because I know 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.720 they lead to disaster. And by having a list and 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.400 by putting things like that on it, it just removes 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.320 the decision making load because you know, if a bureau 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.760 or someone reaches out and said, hey, can you speak 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.320 it that dinner event, I don't need to think about it. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.760 I don't need to agonize, I don't need to wonder like, 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.200 will this one be different? Well no, I will never 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.480 find out because never again will I speak at a 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.200 dinner So I wonder if that might be something else 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:53.280 for you to try as well. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:53.760 That's great. 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.879 I've literally just written these things all yes, but boundary 0:18:58.920 --> 0:18:59.719 and never again. 0:18:59.760 --> 0:18:59.960 Never. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.359 You know, it's funny because in my office, my little shed, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.560 which is my happy place, I have post it notes 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.879 around my desk that are like because one of the 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.200 things about that I know about myself is I hate 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.280 feeling fenced in, and so one of the post it 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.119 notes above My best says, you don't have to. It's like, 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.879 it sounds so silly, but that's a reminder to me 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.199 that when I start, as I say, looking at the 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.560 calendar or whatever it is and getting all like upset, like, oh, 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:33.040 I'm sure, like you didn't have to do that. You 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.720 can choose to change things that even just the idea 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.639 of that calms me down. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:39.199 You don't have to. 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.560 So I think these post its are going to go 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.320 on the collection of post its around the window. 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.399 Oh holy, I feel like I can just talk to 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.000 you for hours, but I need to let you go 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.000 and you need to write book number six. 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:54.919 So I know your new book is about energy, but 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.199 people keep it quote this is hilarious that this is 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.000 my reference, but people keep quoting, you know. Taylor Swift 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.600