1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Get a I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: and professional overshare us. This podcast is all about celebrating 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: failure because I believe it's a chance for us to learn, 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week, all interview 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as their lows, 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. 7 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: Hello. 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: Today on the pod, we have a very awesome human being. 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: Her name is Jody Rodgers, and she's just written a 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: book called Unique, What Autism can teach Us about difference, 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: connection and Belonging. Now, if you are a fan of 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: Love on the Spectrum, Jody is the relationship specialist that 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: goes into these beautiful people's homes and kind of like 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: coaches them and helps them through dating and how to 15 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: navigate that and how to navigate. 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: The feelings that comes with that. 17 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: And this whole book is written in a storytelling kind 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: of format, and so you really feel like Jody is 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: taking us the reader along her thirty year journey of working. 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: With neurodivergent people. 21 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: It is a beautiful read, It is inspiring, it is heartwarming. 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: As you'll hear in the pod, Jody is. 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 2: So warm and open and. 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: Caring and you can feel that with the book as well. 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: So the book is officially out now in Australia. It 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: is called Unique. In America and the UK, I believe 27 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: it is called How to Find a Four Leaf Clover, 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: and it's out everywhere now. 29 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: So I hope you love the pod. 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: If you love it, please go and grab yourself a 31 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: copy of the book. I'll put a link to it 32 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: in the show notes. All right, PORU big love enjoy 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: Jodie Rogers, thanks for jumping on the pod. 34 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: Thanks for having we love mate. 35 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: I am so excited to have you here. 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: Relationship specialist, sexologist, counselor, educator. 37 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 3: Author, author, I'm still not used to saying that part. 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: It fits the list nicely. 39 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 3: It's great add on. 40 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: So I got to soak you up from Love on 41 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: the Spectrum. I was living in America as in LA 42 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: I was as lonely as anything, and an actor made 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: of mind just goes stop watching all these like because 44 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I was always watching movies and TV shows to get 45 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: inspider as an actor. And they're like, go and watch 46 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: Love on the Spectrum. And they were very sophisic. They 47 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: were like, must be the Aussie one. Get in there, 48 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: watch it, And what I loved most was that I 49 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: could laugh and cry in one episode, Yeah, and feel 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: very like full after it as well. Yeah, first of all, 51 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: was it a joy? And is it a joy to 52 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: be part of a show like that? 53 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 3: One percent? It's joy? Ariginly. When they asked me to 54 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 3: be on the show, I was like, no way in 55 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: hell am I doing that. 56 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 57 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: I didn't say that to them. I didn't say that 58 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: to Normal Picture's production team, but my immediate instinct was 59 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 3: to say, I don't want to be on television. But 60 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 3: in saying that, as soon as I saw it myself, 61 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 3: as soon as I saw what they had done to 62 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 3: edit it and what it was like, I did exactly 63 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 3: the same thing. I was in a hotel room, I 64 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: think I was out in Tamworth or something for work, 65 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 3: and they sent me through the first episode and I 66 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: was alone in this mankey hotel room and watched it 67 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: and laughed and cried and I was in it. So 68 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: it was part of that crazy thing. And I see 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: what you're saying. When it hit Netflix, we were pretty 70 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: sad in the world. It came out the year that 71 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: COVID first came to being in lockdowns, and I think 72 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: that we were all needing a bit of happiness, and 73 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: so I think the timing of it for all of 74 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 3: us was brilliant, and I think it. 75 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: Celebrated its connection. 76 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: And I think when you're feeling like alone and a 77 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: bit less connected as we kind of we're all feeling 78 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: in that time, it really does. I think at the 79 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: end of the day, it's, yes, a celebration of love 80 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: and uniqueness, which is the title of your beautiful book, 81 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: Unique is, but it also celebrates just humans connecting with 82 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: one another. And your role coming on as like a 83 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: relationship expert is so beautiful to watch the way that 84 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: you What I love watching about you is that you 85 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: connect with each person and you somehow it's like you've 86 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: got this magic ability to find your connection points. 87 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: So if somebody is. 88 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: Like madly into cars or Yawi's or like whatever it. 89 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: Is, you can find that like commonality. 90 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: And in through reading this beautiful I got it a 91 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: little advanced kind of manuscript copy of Unique and hearing 92 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: the way that you've been able to connect with each person, 93 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: it's kind of beautiful. 94 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: I feel like you have this beautiful in that and 95 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: you're like, well, it's my job, b looler, but it 96 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: is my job. 97 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: That's where I feel like you're quite special in that 98 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: you find this beautiful connection point. 99 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: Is that kind of what you try to do when 100 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 2: you meet people? 101 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, well that's from years and years and 102 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 3: years of hanging out with people that don't just pick 103 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 3: up on you know, it's not a neurotypical way of 104 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: moving through the world. So you and I will find 105 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 3: our connection just by understanding kind of a reciprocal nature 106 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 3: back and forth interaction with each other. We'll just walk 107 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 3: in like we did today, you know, walk in and 108 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: you just start talking. But for many people that I 109 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: hang out with, because they move through the world in 110 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 3: a very different way, and social interaction can be really 111 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: complex and communication can be really difficult, then language can 112 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 3: be really difficult. Then what I've found is that if 113 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 3: you have to seek, you have to seek the thing 114 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: that somebody wise is interested in and then allow that 115 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 3: person to share that information with you. And if you 116 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 3: allow somebody else to share what they love with you, 117 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 3: I would say, if you genuinely listen like a sponge 118 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 3: to another human, that allows you to connect. Now, sometimes 119 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 3: I am not interested in terms of you know, I'm 120 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 3: not interested in the topic that they're talking about. But 121 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 3: what I am interested in is watching that person's confidence 122 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: and happiness and kind of joy when they talk about 123 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 3: their passion. So I will sit there and listen to anything. 124 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: At all beautiful watching someone light up with passion. 125 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 3: That's exactly you watch people like. 126 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: Ah, and you can hear. 127 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: You can also hear and see it in you because 128 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: you're obviously reflecting that feeling. 129 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 2: And being like, yeah, I love when you talk about that. 130 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: And it's like the moment that you create a safe 131 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: space for whoever you're talking to to kind of like 132 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: sit in that space with you. It's like, Ah, anything 133 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: as part. And that's what I think is like the 134 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: beauty of what you do? Can you share? And you say, 135 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: I think at the very side of this, were you 136 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: eighteen years old when you first was it worked with 137 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: I met an autistic person. 138 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd worked, I had done some work experience at 139 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 3: a lock in those days was a segregated special school. 140 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 3: I think it was even it might have even been 141 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: a school where the kids lived, you know, in the 142 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 3: eighties we still had that going on, okay, and then 143 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 3: but then I can't remember meeting an autistic person then, 144 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: But yes, my first big experience was I started at eighteen, 145 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: started working as a support worker and was matched with 146 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 3: a young woman kid, you know, girl who was only 147 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: seven or eight. And I had no idea what was 148 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: going on because I didn't know what autism was. I 149 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 3: had no idea. She was non speaking, she had an 150 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: intellectual disability. She really couldn't communicate in a way that 151 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: I had understood communication in any shape or form. I 152 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: didn't know how to interact with her. And so as 153 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 3: an eighteen year old, it completely blew my mind open 154 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: because here I was with somebody that I did not 155 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: know how to connect and communicate with at all. I 156 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: had no idea, what what did you do? 157 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: I thought this might be the pool? Is this the pool? Story? 158 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: This story so much I was scared. 159 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 3: I was really frightened, because she was really frightened and 160 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 3: really scared. So she spent a lot of the time 161 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 3: when we were first together, weeks to actually when we 162 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 3: were first together, just screaming and screaming and screaming and screaming. 163 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 3: For I went anywhere near her. If I even spoke, 164 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 3: she just screamed. And so remember I was only eighteen, 165 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: So I was just I was kreeaking out, absolutely freaking out. 166 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: But there was two things. One, I just kind of 167 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 3: had to do what I was doing, so I just thought, well, 168 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: that's not working, so I'll just stop doing it. And 169 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: then and then it made me feel like I was 170 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: pretty hopeless and did you know, helpless? And I just thought, 171 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 3: what am I doing? What am I doing this for? 172 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 3: And we'd spent a day a week or on an afternoon 173 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 3: a week together for weeks on weeks on weeks and weeks. 174 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: So two things happened. One I just stopped interacting with 175 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: her or we just go through the motions. But she 176 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 3: moved through the world by you know when you see 177 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 3: a little kid like I'm talking a toddler, and they 178 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 3: when they pick something up, they put it in their mouths. Yeah, 179 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: they taste it. That's how she moved through the world. 180 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 3: But she was seven, so she would lick and taste 181 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 3: every single thing, surfaces, everything in the environment. So in 182 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 3: the story that I tell there, she's basically licks a 183 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 3: swimming pool. She meets the whole swimming the walls, yeah, 184 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: the tiles, that anything in that space lick and I 185 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: know this is going to sound really weird. And I 186 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 3: was curious one because remember this is weeks of me 187 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 3: watching her lick this space, not connecting with me, but 188 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 3: licking this space. And so the two things happened. One. 189 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: I was pretty curious. I was like, why is she 190 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: doing this? I mean, I don't say this in the book. 191 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 3: But I was also eighteen, so I was kind of 192 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 3: bored as well. I was like, what am I going 193 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 3: to do? We were spending three to four hours together, 194 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: no talking. 195 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: No, you knew she liked the. 196 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: Water, right, I knew she loved the water, and you 197 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: love the water, and I had one like the commonality. 198 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's all they said to me. They basically said, 199 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 3: you know, when they were talking about things she liked, 200 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 3: one of the things they said is she likes the water. 201 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 3: So that was just my go to to go there together. 202 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: But yeah, one day I just thought, oh fuck it, 203 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: I'll just do what she does. And so I kind 204 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: of went, I wonder what this actually feels like. I 205 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 3: just started copying her and followed her. I literally followed 206 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 3: her around. So if she licked a tile the title, 207 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 3: if she licked the poor cover, I licked the poor cover. 208 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: If she licked a brick. I licked a brick. I 209 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: just did what she did, and yeah, it just sort 210 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 3: of shifted. It shifted me, It shifted my perception of her. 211 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean it was still talk a little while, 212 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 3: but but yeah, we found our space together. We found 213 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: a space where we actually I loved being with her. 214 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: I loved being with her in complete silence. I love 215 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 3: the fact that I found, as an eighteen year old 216 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 3: that I didn't have to interact with somebody in the 217 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 3: way that I expect humans to interact. So, yeah, eighteen, 218 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 3: I had a massive shift in understanding what connecting with 219 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: somebody was all about. 220 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: And is that what spurred you on to be like, 221 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: hang on, this is the space I want to be in. 222 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 3: I kind of already knew prior to that that I 223 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 3: really love people. Not I really love people, but I 224 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 3: really love wanting to know why we do the things 225 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: we do or what, you know, how do we all 226 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,599 Speaker 3: think about the world and feel about the world. So 227 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 3: I already had that component of me, but I think 228 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 3: meeting Learner, that's her name in the book, I think 229 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: it was also a point which made me go, I 230 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 3: love hanging out with people that are so different from me. 231 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 3: Because there's the biggest learning totally, so the further way 232 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 3: I mean, and it's not just people who are neurologically 233 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 3: different or learn differently, but I love people who are 234 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: culturally different, or they've got a different religion, or their 235 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: gender identity is different from mine, or I love listening 236 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 3: to anyone that can teach me something about their perspective 237 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: of the world. I love it. 238 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: What a cool way to leave And even like reading 239 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: your book. 240 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: I love that you're celebrating uniqueness and differences, Like, because 241 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: how boring if everyone's all the same? 242 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 3: So boring, right, so boring. But but we are so 243 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 3: interesting as humans because we try to conform with each 244 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:21,359 Speaker 3: other a lot. 245 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: And like a safety mechanism of like feeling like we 246 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: need to be part of it. 247 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, because none of us want to be lonely and 248 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 3: none of us want to be isolated. So what we 249 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: do is we try and copy each other. That's why, 250 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: you know, we we look at Instagram, go oh, I 251 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 3: want what they want. I want to look like what 252 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: they look like. I want to do what they're doing, 253 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: because we don't want to not be in the tribe. 254 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 3: And we think that if we don't follow and conform, 255 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 3: then we're going to be left out of the tribe. 256 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 3: So we try really hard to conform to one another. 257 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: Where my belief is is that if we don't have 258 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 3: people that do things in a different way, then we're 259 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 3: not a good tribe. 260 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: And also, like I've heard you talk about this, like 261 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: you want to just celebrate your real self, like and 262 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: that is your whole message when you're working with someone, 263 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: it's like the real you. Was like yeah, and I 264 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 1: think like we and I think humans in general, because 265 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: we so badly want to fit in. 266 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: We put these. 267 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: Like masks and walls up and it's not until you 268 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: get to hang with someone and go, oh my god, 269 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: they're a legend, and it's like a whole different side 270 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: that Sometimes it's taken like time of building trust and 271 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: feeling them feeling vulnerable with you and enough to be like, well, 272 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: this is actually the real me, you know. 273 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: This is so weird. 274 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: In improv acting school, they take to a rule called 275 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: yes and so you can never block another actor when 276 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: they put a fresh idea on the table. So if 277 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: an actor goes and they're improvising, so we're in a 278 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: space where there's nothing around, and they're like, how calls 279 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: the purple elephant, and you know, well and good, there 280 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: ain't no purple elephant there. You still can't say there's 281 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: no purple that you have to go yeah, and it's 282 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: got spots and then you build this story together. And 283 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: when I'm I've got a really one of my best 284 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: friends at seven years old, and my rule is yes, 285 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: and every time we hang out and we just hang 286 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: out a whole other world and it is like the 287 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: best fun And people go, how are you guys so close? 288 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, I just yes, and like I just like 289 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: meet wherever they are. But it's the way you're talking 290 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: about celebrating people's realness and uniqueness and the differences. That's 291 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: like the quirks. That's what I feel like make people awesome. 292 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is. And I always say to people 293 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: that my theory is, you know, we of course we 294 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: want to conform, we want to fit in. But if 295 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: you really think about it, if you really really think 296 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: about it, there is over eight billion of us on 297 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 3: this planet, but none of us are the same, exactly, 298 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 3: none of us there is an I just think that's phenomenal. 299 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 3: I really do you think it's phenomenal that you and 300 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 3: I will have a lot of similarity. We will find 301 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 3: the things that we're similar with Ocean deps, definitely. But 302 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: I could spend a lifetime listening to you because your perspective, 303 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 3: your point of view, your way of processing your senses, 304 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 3: your experiences, your way of communicating your expectations, your relationships 305 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 3: are going to be vastly different from mine. So I 306 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 3: think that if we think about that, the all of 307 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: us or eight whatever billion plus of us, we're actually 308 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: I know, we're all in it together, but we're all 309 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: doing it differently or feeling it differently. And I love that. 310 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: I love it big time. Mate, you're preaching to the choir. 311 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 2: I love it. 312 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: So you've spent over thirty years working with neurodivergent people. 313 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: What are some of the things, like your favorite. 314 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: Things that you and you share a lot of them 315 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: in this book, Like there are a few like favorite. 316 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: Is it just like celebrating differences or is it that 317 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: like we all have a different lens that we live through. 318 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 3: I think, well, I mean it's difficult, it's too big, really, 319 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: that question. I are because every single person, as I 320 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 3: was saying, is different. So I will meet people you 321 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 3: kind of just said it. You meet them where they are, 322 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 3: And so my theory is you meet people where they are. 323 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 3: So every you know, in my day to day practice, 324 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 3: so I can hang out with six to seven people 325 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 3: a day individually or as couples, and no one's the same, 326 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 3: you know, and where what we're there for, or what 327 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 3: we're doing or why we're doing things. But every single 328 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 3: person I'm with I learn that they teach me something, 329 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 3: often about myself about. 330 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 2: Cool you picked a cool job? 331 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 3: Yeah I did? I did? I really picked a cool job. 332 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: What's people's respond Because I feel like being a sexologist 333 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: it's kind of like not even a buzz. It's like 334 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: people like, oh, okay, you're a sexy but I like 335 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: the way you speak about like it's also about relationships 336 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: and how relationships are often kind of like one of 337 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: the most important things we as human beings experience and 338 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: how important they are to us. 339 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: With being a sexologist, is it? 340 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: It's obviously more than just sexy times, right, It is 341 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: like being intimate with someone but also being vulnerable with 342 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: someone and building a relationship of values of trust and respect? 343 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: Is that kind of more? What is I've never spoken 344 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: to a sexologist before, so this is completely. 345 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 3: It's really strange because you know you're a sexologist, so 346 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 3: immediately people go straight to Actually, what they usually go 347 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: straight to is what we've all been taught. They go 348 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: to intersexual penetrative sex between a man and a woman. 349 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 3: That's what they go to, or the act of penetration 350 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 3: and sex. That's usually where people are. But that is 351 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 3: so far, That is like such a tiny minute component 352 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 3: of what I understand sexuality to be. So for me, 353 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 3: sexuality is about one It's about our sensuality. So how 354 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: do we process our senses? What is our identity, our 355 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 3: gender identity, our sexual orientation, What is our capacity to 356 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 3: communicate with another person? And when we're talking intimacy, we're 357 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 3: not just talking with physical intimacy. We're actually talking about 358 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 3: being highly vulnerable and emotionally available to another person. When 359 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 3: you talk about sexuality, you talk about if you've got 360 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 3: problems with body image, if your self your self esteem, 361 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 3: or how can you communicate what your needs and desire 362 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: as I mean, and then there's all the other parts 363 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 3: of sexual behavior and fantasy and desire and negotiation within that, 364 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 3: And it's the whole gamut really, And I work with 365 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 3: a lot of people that also may have difficulties with 366 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 3: you know, sexual function or dysfunction, or you know, their 367 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 3: expression of sexuality can be you know, I work with 368 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 3: people with the whole range of it. So I think 369 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 3: that's really interesting that we still as a community. But 370 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 3: I'll tell you, Lola, if I introduce myself as a sexologist, 371 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 3: you know, if I get to all party and so 372 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 3: I say what do you do, Jodi, and I say 373 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: I'm a sexologist, then immediately people are what and then 374 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 3: they want to talk icebreaker. Yeah, I've got this friend 375 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: that they want to talk about. But I know, you know, 376 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: the set, there's a lot of sexologists that I hang 377 00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 3: out with that are really you know, they're traditional sexologists. 378 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: They might be working with people about complexity with sexual 379 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 3: their personal sexuality and when I'm talking about that, like 380 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 3: their expression of sexual behavior, a sexual desire or you know, 381 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 3: there's a great lot of pleasure based When I first 382 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 3: went to be a sexologist there, it's a master's degree, 383 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 3: so you have to have a degree under those degrees, 384 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 3: you know, before this degree, because it's like a specialization 385 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 3: in that area. But there was very few of us 386 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 3: because it was a long time ago. I think it 387 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 3: was about twenty years ago and it was the guinea 388 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 3: pig year. They'd even started saying, oh maybe we could 389 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 3: do a human sexuality course at university level, at a 390 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 3: master's level. There was very few of us doing it. 391 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: Now there's heaps of people are doing it, hapes and hating. 392 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 2: Very celebrating. 393 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: And it's interesting hearing you talk about like differences and 394 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: uniqueness now that we're talking. I'm like, I imagine that 395 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: would span across into sexuality as well, and like, yeah. 396 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: Every facet, but every facet. 397 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: I love the way you do talk about like that also, 398 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: like is so entine in relationships and like I think 399 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: that's the cornerstone that's made. 400 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's mate, And I think it's relationship with self. Absolutely, 401 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 3: So it's and when I say that, that sounds a 402 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 3: bit wanky because you know, it's for this modern thing. 403 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 3: Have you got to love yourself? And I won't put 404 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 3: an American accent then, but I think that it is 405 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 3: a lot about that that I work with a lot 406 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 3: of people. If somebody, you know, autistic people, people with disability, 407 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 3: they have spent a lot of those people who have 408 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 3: spent a long time thinking that they are lesser than 409 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: so can you imagine the further away that you are 410 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 3: from what we're told is sexy, then it's very hard 411 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 3: to imagine that. There's many people I work with that 412 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 3: have been isolated or bullied by them people within the community. 413 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 3: So that impacts on your self esteem, your self confidence, 414 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 3: and you know, we still live in a community where 415 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: people think that if somebody has a disability, they don't 416 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 3: even desire, you know, they've got no desire. So it's 417 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 3: pretty crazy. So there's a lot of things that I 418 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 3: you know, it's about changing the narrative of all of 419 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 3: that as well. But yeah, fundamentally, for me, it is 420 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: about our relationships with each other. 421 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the I think that and connection is probably 422 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: one of the big things we're here for. 423 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 3: Really. 424 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've picked a career that celebrates it all. 425 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, genius. I have loved. 426 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: Reading your book and I'm so excited it's coming out 427 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: to America as well. 428 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: It's got different title in America, Full Leaf Clover, Is 429 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: that right? 430 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 3: How to find a four leaf Clover? 431 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 2: Which is a beautiful story about your grandpa. Yeah. Can 432 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: you share a little. 433 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: Bit about that because there's this quote that I was like, oh, 434 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: I love this, This is I'm going to steal your 435 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: story by doing this, But like, don't look so hard, love, 436 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: If you train your eyes to see the beauty indifference, 437 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: it's everywhere. Is that the corner slick? Is that kind 438 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: of why the book became that? Because your grandfather taught 439 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: you about this story? Can you share a bit about 440 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: that little snippet of book. 441 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's the very very beginning of the book. Sorry. 442 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: What people don't realize when I interview authors. By the way, 443 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: you've probably written this over a year ago, and I'm 444 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: like on page twenty. It's quite hard when you get 445 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: put on the spot after you've kind of like written 446 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: it and then put it aside for a couple of months, 447 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: and now it's back to. 448 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 3: You know, well this is new for me. You know, 449 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 3: I didn't I had nulledge, You had no plan to 450 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 3: write a book. None. 451 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: Well, I am wrapped you did. Oh that's so great, 452 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: It's all it's unreal. So yeah, so your grandfather you 453 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: share a little bit. 454 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: When I was very he was you know, his background 455 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 3: was Irish and so he was really into you know, 456 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 3: Irish prayers and being Irish and how great the Irish were. 457 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: And so it's kind of came from that little bit. 458 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 3: But yeah, I was a kid. He didn't mean what 459 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 3: he wasn't He was talking to me about four leaf clovis. 460 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 3: He was talking, you know, so he was because the Irish. Fine, 461 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 3: that's part of the things. So but when I was kid, 462 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 3: he took me to find four leaf clovers, and in 463 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: teaching me to find four leaf clovers, basically said stop 464 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 3: looking for sameness, stop looking for the same, because if 465 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 3: you're looking for the same, if you only see the 466 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: same when you look, then you're not going to see 467 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: the magic. And four leaf clovers are magic. And then yeah, 468 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 3: he just used a line with me saying open your 469 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 3: eyes up. But it was almost like just believe, just 470 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 3: believe that the difference is right there, and then you're 471 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 3: going to see it and then you're going to go, yep, 472 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 3: this is the good stuff. Yeah. So it wasn't you know, 473 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 3: it was just something that I carried as a kid. 474 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 3: But then it started I thought about it, and the 475 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 3: weird thing is that I find four leaf clovers everywhere, 476 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: absolutely everywhere. 477 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 2: I had no idea there was even five ones and six's. 478 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: I've got sixers at home, so good, Yeah, I've got 479 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 3: sixers at Home as well. But yeah, so that's where 480 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 3: it came from. And then the book was published in 481 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 3: the US first, and so they wanted the title, I 482 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 3: think the US, and it's also coming out in the UK, 483 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: and they've also called it how to Find to Find 484 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 3: a full leaf Clover when it was being published in Australia, 485 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 3: I think because we're much more straight up and down 486 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 3: and as Australians we like to see something go what 487 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 3: the hell is this about? And you know, how to 488 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 3: Find a full lef Clover may not have been as 489 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 3: blunt as well. But I'm more than happy to have 490 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 3: two different titles. I'm more than happy. And I say 491 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 3: the word unique hundreds of times in this book, so 492 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 3: it's a perfect title for us as Aussies as well. 493 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 3: But the other thing is that also reminds me the 494 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 3: book has three different covers, different covers everywhere, and I 495 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 3: say this is something the day they were saying, is 496 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: it confusing having different titles and different covers, And I said, 497 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 3: because it makes the point, doesn't it. It makes theo that 498 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 3: you can give a book to somebody that's just words, 499 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 3: and then the people who read those words say, this 500 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 3: is what it's titlesh beeat can be different perspectives. And 501 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 3: then you give a book to these design teams, and 502 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 3: these design teams, whatever their perspective or point of view, 503 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 3: designs something completely different. And that's the whole. 504 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 2: Point, that's the ethos of your whole book. 505 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 3: It's the whole idea that we've all got our own 506 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: point of view and perspective. And there it's straight there 507 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 3: in front of you, three different cultures, three different covers. 508 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: I love it well. 509 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: When I started reading this, I wrote to your publicist 510 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: straight away and I said, oh, I love the format. 511 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 2: I said, I. 512 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: Feel like I'm reading short stories and it's such a 513 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: nice way to digest sometimes complex information or like learning 514 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: about something new because and I'm a bit I'm a 515 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: nutritionist by trade, and I love brains. 516 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: I love the human brain. 517 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: And so there was I love the way you wrote 518 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: about the thalamus, and specifically this story was Sully's story 519 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: about the food court, and you teach us about sensory 520 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: overload and how and neurotypical person might be able to go, Okay, 521 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: that's just annoying background sound, or that's you know, like 522 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: we can kind of compartment our brains can compartmentalize it 523 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: versus Sally's experience was like, this is the worst experience 524 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: in the world. 525 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 2: Right now, I can't cope. So can you just share? 526 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: Because you also talk about the thalamus being the mixing 527 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: board for. 528 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 2: The brain, which I love. 529 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: So how does does the thelamis work like that? It 530 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: is in charge of our senses, so it filters. 531 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: So what it does is it filters our senses. So 532 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,239 Speaker 3: what you were talking before is a neurotypical brain. What 533 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 3: we will do is we will our the thomist will 534 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 3: go do I need this information right now? Do I 535 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 3: know this? So you know you and I on this 536 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 3: space right here. If I heard a dog barking outside, 537 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: I can put that to a side. It might be 538 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 3: in the back of my brain, but I will take 539 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 3: no notice of it because my films will go no. 540 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 3: Right now, you and Laura are having a conversation. This 541 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 3: is what the important thing is that isn't there. If 542 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 3: I have an autistic brain, then it doesn't filter in 543 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 3: the same way, so that dog may get higher precedents 544 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: than you and I having this conversation because there isn't. 545 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 3: And that's why I use the mixing board in that 546 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 3: thinking that if because we all know that. We all 547 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 3: know that if we go to see somebody in concert, 548 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: if the lead guitar is given more concentration the singer 549 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 3: and we can't hear the singer and the lyrics, then 550 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 3: we're all going to turn that up, put that one up. 551 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 3: And so it's we're constantly using all of our senses 552 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 3: through different parts all the time, like what's important, what's 553 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: not important. If you have autistic neurology and not just 554 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 3: autistic neurology, there's many people with neurodiverse that this can 555 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 3: be really complex. And that's why when we people talk 556 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 3: about sensory overload, people we don't quite get it. We 557 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 3: can we you mean sensory outload. What's hard for us 558 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 3: to understand because we can filter. If you neurotypical, we 559 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 3: can filter. So it's kind of going, okay, so I 560 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,239 Speaker 3: had no filter. And the thing that amazes me and 561 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 3: this is how often I can get people to relate 562 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 3: to it. For torture, when we torture other humans or 563 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: not me and you, but you know when governments torture 564 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 3: other people, one of the biggest torture treatments is either 565 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 3: sensory deprivation. You take away any senses that can be used, 566 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 3: or sensory overload. So we know that sensory overload is 567 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 3: a torture technique, So why can't we then go Okay, 568 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 3: when an autistic person says I've got sensory overload, We're 569 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: literally looking at a person being tortured by the environment. So, 570 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 3: you know, I think if people can underst stand that 571 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 3: as neurotypical people, we actually will. We know that it 572 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 3: can really impact on a person if they've got no relief, 573 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,719 Speaker 3: if we've got no capacity to filter. 574 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: So it makes total sense though when you say the 575 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: torture thing like light or sound or yeah. 576 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 3: What we do. We will put people in a room. 577 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 3: We will give them no clothes for comfort, we will 578 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 3: leave the lights on twenty four seven. We will blair 579 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 3: music at them, really bad music or it doesn't even 580 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 3: have to be a repetitive music that just does not 581 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 3: stop twenty four hours a day. We will make it cold, 582 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 3: we will give we will do all of that to 583 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 3: them to overwhelm them. And we know that we call 584 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 3: it and we actually go, hang on, that is torture. 585 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 3: That's that's a torture technique here. 586 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, that is one way to tell a neurotypical person. 587 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 2: Even so my wearing my boyfriend's room. 588 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: That he uses for composing, and I work out in 589 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: the main part of the house, and I have to 590 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: have noise canceling. I'm like, you are sound polluting me, 591 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: son like, because I can't focus, My brain won't focus, 592 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: And that's that's a neurotypical person just being annoyed by 593 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: too many sounds, or if they're building outside, I'm like, 594 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: I gotta put headphones on so that I can. 595 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: Just get work done. 596 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: So I can only imagine turn the volume up on 597 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: that by like a hundred, and it can like being 598 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: in a food court or something can feel so like 599 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: you're in the middle of a night club. You know 600 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: it's acid. Yeah, the right to the other level. Yeah, 601 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: so fascinating. The other thing I love reading about was 602 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: the amygdala, and I didn't know that it was in 603 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: charge of fight, flea or. 604 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: What's the third one? 605 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: Free? Free And so I think you share this in 606 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: Best Spiking Story, which I love my favorite chapter reading about, 607 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: because I was like, you sound fierce, but is that 608 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: what the deal, like one of the main jobs. 609 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 3: Of the Yeah, well, if you think the mygdala is 610 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: really deep, deep, deep down in the brain. So the 611 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 3: way I explain it, if I'm trying because remember, part 612 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 3: of my job is to make all information accessible to anybody, 613 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 3: and so I will take complex information around relationships and 614 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 3: sexuality and make sure that no matter who is in 615 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 3: front of me, it's a human right to get information 616 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 3: in a way you understand. So if I if I talk, 617 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: if you think why is trying to making this so simple, 618 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 3: it's because because that's what I do. I try and 619 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: take things that are a bit make it simple. 620 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: It's great. 621 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. So the amygdala, I always talk about it as 622 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 3: being like ow, the ancient part of our brain. So 623 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 3: you know, if you think before when we were Neanderthals, 624 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 3: when we were back in the day of that bit, 625 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 3: we basically this was one of the first formed parts 626 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 3: of our brain. It's so deep in there, and so 627 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 3: one of the most important things for us was survival. 628 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 3: And so back in those times we have to be 629 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 3: very very quick to. 630 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 2: Raby on tigers. 631 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it was either what will I 632 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 3: do here? Am I going to run away? Am I 633 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 3: going to fight it? Or am I going to stand still? 634 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 3: That's basically what it was. So we still have that 635 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 3: part of our brain that is really big component of 636 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 3: who we are. But we forget that because we still 637 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 3: have that ancient part of our brain. It still does 638 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,479 Speaker 3: those things in many many environments. I mean, of course, 639 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 3: anybody who does trauma informed therapy just will be talking 640 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 3: about that all the time. Yeah, yeah, they'll be talking 641 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 3: about it all the time because trauma informed therapy. If 642 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: you think about anybody who's had a traumatic incident in 643 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 3: their life, or you know, they've had ongoing trauma, then 644 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 3: that becomes that reaction and is forefront to their way 645 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 3: of moving through the world. So, you know, if you 646 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 3: had been in a situation, well let's just make it 647 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 3: say you'd been in a severe car accident, and when 648 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 3: the car accident happened, there was this screeching of the tires. 649 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 3: Then you might be twenty years down the track, everything's fine, 650 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 3: the world's safe, you loved, you're happy, but you hear 651 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 3: the screeching of the tires, and your brain will immediately 652 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 3: bang straight into fight, flight, run away, or freeze because 653 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 3: the brain has now held on prime to that. Yeah, 654 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 3: that prime is exactly right. That's part of our brain 655 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 3: is primal. Yeah. 656 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 2: Wow. 657 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so for lots of people that I work 658 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 3: with and spend time with, some of their reactions to 659 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 3: things that a large majority of the population might go, what, 660 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 3: why are you getting upset about that? Or why are 661 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 3: you doing that? Or why are you getting reacting to that? 662 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 3: It's because the amigudaler is still processing things in a 663 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 3: very very different way, and we to be you know, 664 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 3: we use a lot of our frontal lobe, which is 665 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 3: we're thinking and decision making and that logical. Yeah, the 666 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 3: logical stuff, but the amygdala and our frontal lobe have 667 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 3: to have good communication with each other. They've got to, 668 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 3: got it. So if you have a brain that the 669 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 3: neurology is different. And this happens for lots of people. 670 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 3: I'm talking lots of people. If you think about any 671 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 3: of us when we're when we sleep deprived, that communication 672 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 3: between the amygdala and the frontal lobe won't happen so easily. 673 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 3: If you're you know, you just having a shitty day, 674 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 3: if you're cold, if you're like there's a billion reasons 675 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 3: for all of us that our neurology starts not being 676 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 3: as fluid or as. 677 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: Adaptable, even like that first date, feeling, like even watching 678 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: love on speap like I can remember first dates. 679 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 2: So you're like you get the sweaty part. 680 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: You're like why, like why is that frontal lobe just 681 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: not working with your conversation does? And you kind of 682 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: do feel like you're in that fight or flight like 683 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: like I want to be here, but my body is 684 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: kind of like anxious, yeah, very anxious, and it's like 685 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: and you're just like, oh, and like even yes, I 686 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: had to go to a work event and I knew 687 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: no one. 688 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:21,240 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 689 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: The whole time I was geeing up listen listening to 690 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: like pump up music, and I got there and I 691 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: was like, I know no one, and I'm sweat of 692 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: trying to shake off the energy like I'm sweating. Don't 693 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: want to be there, Like not that I want to 694 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: be there, I just didn't want to be that far 695 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone. And I imagine dating, and 696 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: that's where love on the spectrum is so beautiful to 697 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 1: watch because then you get in like before the date happens, 698 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: and kind of like coach people just around like being 699 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,280 Speaker 1: okay with that feeling, but also like open endo questions 700 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: and you know. 701 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 3: Because one of the things will do so that I 702 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 3: think we're That's I think one of the reasons why 703 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 3: people love the show because everybody was to it. 704 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 705 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 3: I always say, like I was saying to somebody the 706 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 3: other day, you know, if they'd made a show about 707 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 3: you know, autism and I don't know, mowing the lawn, 708 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 3: we would have gone here, what's that? But because I 709 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 3: mean we all probably have to make the lawn too. 710 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,720 Speaker 3: But I think because it was about autism and dating, 711 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 3: we all go, yeah, I know that one that feels 712 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 3: like it. It Actually so many people said it's so 713 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,760 Speaker 3: highly relatable. So people were educated about autism by watching 714 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 3: something that they felt they knew too. 715 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,439 Speaker 2: And love is so universal, right. 716 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 1: Even just two days ago, I saw Bradley Cooper being 717 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 1: interviewed and they said, what's his favorite show? 718 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: And he's like, Love on the Spectrum. Yeah, He's like, 719 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 2: I'll just watch it. 720 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's comfort show. 721 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But I can see why because also you 722 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: do feel this bit when you watch it, and that 723 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 1: I feel it with reading your book as well, like 724 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: you do feel this ability to connect even as of 725 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: you you're like just watching the celebration of love connection 726 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: and sitting in the discomfort of wanting those things and 727 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: not yet having them, and that's quite empowering to watch 728 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: as a viewer of being like, oh yeah, like that 729 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: feeling is hard and it's okay, and it's worth sitting 730 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: in the discomfort to keep just kind of like keep going. 731 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: I know. That's what I think is so beautiful. It's 732 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: so inspiring as well. Yeah, do you feel that as 733 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: being part of the show and also this best I 734 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: feel like, well. 735 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 3: I don't know, it's very hard to be in something 736 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 3: when you say that, but it's very hard to be 737 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 3: It's very hard to be in a show and understand 738 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 3: it from other people's perspectives. And because I'm just in 739 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 3: it get me and it was real to me, and 740 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 3: the people in that show are stillilar friends. Yeah, and 741 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 3: so it's just a completely different experience. And with the book, 742 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 3: you know, you saying that you've read it, it's I 743 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 3: haven't met many people who've read it yet, and it's 744 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 3: so new, so new, and even my closest people in 745 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 3: my life have had snippets of it. It's very few 746 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 3: people apart from the editors and people like that, it's 747 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 3: very few people who have read it cover to cover. 748 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 3: So I'm only just in the last week or so 749 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 3: meeting people who've never met me before in my life, 750 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 3: like you or you know, the other day to do 751 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 3: some stuff. And as soon as I walked in the door, 752 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,839 Speaker 3: this director said, I just read your book and gave 753 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 3: me feedback. And I was actually standing there going, oh, 754 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 3: I was quite overwhelmed because it's hard to know, it's 755 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,240 Speaker 3: hard to know what your words will be perceived by 756 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 3: another person. And yeah, so I've got at the moment 757 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 3: when you go, oh, the inspired I don't know, I 758 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 3: don't know what people are going to say or think 759 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 3: or feel. 760 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: But how nice is that that people are seeing And 761 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: this is one thing I'm sure you've potentially experienced since 762 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: the show, but now it's probably going to go up 763 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: level as well because of the book. 764 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 2: Like people feel like they can connect. 765 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: You because you're so warm is what your nature is 766 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: warm for sure. But I've listened to huge, like a 767 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: real handful of podcasts of. 768 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 2: You, and you're the same. 769 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: You're like you can hear you smile, You're warm, and 770 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: then on the show as well, like you're very very warm, 771 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: and I think that like you'll find people will come 772 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: up to you and be like, I've read your book, 773 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: talk about death, or I love Niko's story. I love 774 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: that you know, and and I think, well, that's just 775 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: something to be celebrated. And I could talk to you 776 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: all day long. But my final question is what is 777 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: your goal for this book? What do you hope that 778 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: the reader does take from it? 779 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 3: I really hope that anyone who reads it, I really 780 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 3: hope that it makes them one kind of go oh man, 781 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 3: none of you I did, why I did that, or 782 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 3: that I experienced it. But most importantly, I really hope 783 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,359 Speaker 3: that the next time there with somebody and the thought 784 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 3: comes in the head of like, why the fuck are 785 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 3: they doing that? Or why hang on, let me just 786 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 3: think about this really clearly for you so I can 787 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,280 Speaker 3: look because just going off with that, Yeah, my hope 788 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 3: is that any person that comes across somebody who is 789 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 3: different from them, we'll just have a little bit more 790 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 3: patience and just a little bit more curiosity, and rather 791 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 3: than just going no and turning away, we'll actually just 792 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 3: stand in it for a minute and just listen like 793 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 3: a sponge. Yeah, isn't curiosity the best curiosity is the best. 794 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: One of my acting teachers that if you're anxious or nervous, 795 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 1: just be fucking curious. 796 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:56,919 Speaker 2: It gets you out of your head. 797 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: And she said, always memorize your which is the personal 798 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: audition with eyes, and she goes afterwards, call me and 799 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: tell me the color of their eyes, because if you're 800 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: up here and you're freaking out and over and on 801 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: that hampswell. 802 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 2: Of like, oh do I look okay? Oh it's my hair? Like, 803 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 2: forget the audition, You're not even present. 804 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,800 Speaker 3: Do you know something that you just said? It was 805 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 3: really funny. People keep saying, oh, you know, lock someone 806 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,959 Speaker 3: here at home that I ran into said, you're exactly 807 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,320 Speaker 3: the same at the IgA as you are on the telly. 808 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,399 Speaker 2: That's how you want to be. 809 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 3: But what I really I didn't know this about myself, 810 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 3: But what happened was, and it's kind of like in 811 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 3: this moment with you that when I when I was 812 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,240 Speaker 3: first on Love on Spectrum, I'd never been on television, 813 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 3: had never had cameras around me or whatever. But what 814 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 3: I found is as soon as they put me with somebody, 815 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 3: So as soon as I was immediately in somebody's space, 816 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 3: everything else fell away. Because in my lifetime I love 817 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 3: people so much that you could have me in amongst 818 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 3: a whole lot of stuff going on, and I'll always 819 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 3: be able to go I know the color of that 820 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 3: person's eyes, or I have listened to that person's story, 821 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,399 Speaker 3: or say. All the other stuff just peripheral. 822 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: And you've got great eyes, by the way, especially your 823 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: left eye. 824 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 2: You know you've got speckles in your iris or not? 825 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 2: How cool that. 826 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 3: I don't know whether that's good. 827 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: I've studied, I've studied aridology, so it's different. You've got 828 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: different organs in your iris, but speckles can usually mean that. 829 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 2: Not to give you a diagnosis or anything. It just 830 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:31,919 Speaker 2: means that your. 831 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: Body does really well with liver support. So lemon juice 832 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: in more water first thing in the morning will be 833 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: your friend. There you go, and it means that you 834 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: have a very pretty iris, so just go with it. 835 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 1: It has been such a joy hanging with you and 836 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: reading this, and I can't wait to see how the 837 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: book goes for you, and I look forward to I'm 838 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: going to pick up a copy in America too. 839 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. Unique, it won't find unique, you know. 840 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 2: I will. Thank you so so much. You are wonderful. 841 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 3: Thank you, Lilah. 842 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, 843 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests and let's continue the conversation 844 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: on Instagram. 845 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,279 Speaker 2: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast 846 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 2: is available on all streaming platforms. 847 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 1: I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape and comment, 848 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: and of course spread the love.