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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time for parent who just wants answers. Now, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Happy Families Podcast. I am doctor Justin Colson today

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Speaker 1: answering your questions on the podcast. This one is definitely

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Speaker 1: not one for the kids, or maybe it is, but

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Speaker 1: you want to listen to it definitely first and certainly

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Speaker 1: not for younger kids. Listener discretion is advised. If you

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Speaker 1: would like to submit your questions, just go to happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com dot you and leave us a voice memo.

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Speaker 1: Happy families dot com dot you, scroll down to where

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Speaker 1: it says podcasts, push the button start talking. It's our

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Speaker 1: super simple system. It really is that easy. Submit your

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Speaker 1: question at happy families dot com dot au. Today's question

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Speaker 1: comes from Emily in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Justin and Curley. Just a quick Christian regarding our

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Speaker 2: beautiful son who happened to tell us the other morning

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Speaker 2: that one of her little friends with pure friend and

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Speaker 2: apparently wants to take photos of her vagina our fadus seven.

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Speaker 2: So it's a friend and we obviously feel like this

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Speaker 2: is concerning not something we've had come up ever before.

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Speaker 2: So we're really about your thoughts. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, Emily, this is concerning. You're absolutely right, certainly

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Speaker 1: not developmentally typical and frankly not even developmentally appropriate. Let

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Speaker 1: me start just by saying wonderful. I know that's an

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Speaker 1: unexpected response from me, but this is so wonderful that

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Speaker 1: your little seven year old has come to you and said,

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Speaker 1: I've got a concern and I feel safe sharing it

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Speaker 1: with you. As parents, this is the dream scenario where

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Speaker 1: our kids are willing to be open with us, to

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Speaker 1: be frank with us, and to talk about things, even

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Speaker 1: if they're a little bit embarrassing or if they don't

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Speaker 1: quite understand it. So I'm so so glad that he's

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Speaker 1: wanted to have that conversation with you. The second key

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Speaker 1: point that I want to make in responding to this question, Emily,

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Speaker 1: is that what your son's friend is wanting to do

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Speaker 1: is not and I want to say this really clearly

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Speaker 1: is not normal. It's not considered healthy development for a

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Speaker 1: seven year old to have this idea. Now, I can

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Speaker 1: only speculate as to where this ideas come from and

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Speaker 1: why he has the idea. It is concerning. My speculation

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Speaker 1: may be unmarranted. If I'm wrong, I'll take it back,

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Speaker 1: but I think that it's worth spending a moment on

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Speaker 1: this because unfortunately, statistically, the likelihood of it happening is

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Speaker 1: far too high. My take is that this kid has

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Speaker 1: seen pornography, he's been exposed to explicit content, or if

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Speaker 1: he hasn't seen it, he's heard these kinds of ideas

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Speaker 1: from his friends, from his classmates, from a big brother,

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Speaker 1: from an uncle, from a parent. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: it's come across, these ideas from, but I think the

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Speaker 1: number one culprit has to be the possibility of Internet pornography.

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Speaker 1: Some statistics on this global data on exposure to explicit

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Speaker 1: content rarely give a very clear breakdown on who at

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Speaker 1: what age is viewing what, but we do know this

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Speaker 1: based on a twenty twenty survey from the British Board

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Speaker 1: of Film Classification in the UK, at least and then

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Speaker 1: the majority of children age thirteen have come across explicit

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Speaker 1: content online, with children as young as seven being exposed.

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Speaker 1: Usually first exposure is unintentional, sometimes it's intentional, but usually

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Speaker 1: it's unintentional, and Australian parliamentary inquiry a couple of years

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Speaker 1: ago showed the same thing even younger, although that typically

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Speaker 1: happened as a result of abuse and challenges that were

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Speaker 1: occurring in family homes. Is what we know about young

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Speaker 1: children who come across explicit material. Most of them find

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Speaker 1: it upsetting, most of them find it disturbing. Most of

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Speaker 1: them are literally quote grossed out or quote confused when

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Speaker 1: they come across it. And that's appropriate developmentally, that's normal,

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Speaker 1: that's what we would expect. Normally, seven year olds are

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Speaker 1: worried about girls germs and boys germs, and not catching

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Speaker 1: coodies and and essentially staying as far away from one

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Speaker 1: another as they possibly can. That's really the ideal scenario.

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Speaker 1: That's what you're really really looking for in this situation.

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Speaker 1: There are some parents who are really encouraging of their

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Speaker 1: children to have a girlfriend or a boyfriend from a

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Speaker 1: young age. I'm really concerned about that mindset. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that it's healthy. I don't think that it should

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Speaker 1: be encouraged. It's fine to have friends, it's fine to

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Speaker 1: encourage healthy relationships. But encouraging girlfriend and boyfriend relationships with

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Speaker 1: kids who are in first grade and second grade, it's

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Speaker 1: just not useful. This is the sort of stuff that,

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Speaker 1: from my perspective, looking at research, evidence in the way

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Speaker 1: that kids get involved with one another. You want to

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Speaker 1: delay relationships, especially that something that's considered a romantic or

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Speaker 1: an intimate relationship, for as long as you possibly can.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there are going to be confusing ideas around

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Speaker 1: what it means to be a girlfriend or a boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: and seven year olds usually don't quite get what it's about.

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Speaker 1: But in this instance, we've got a seven year old

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Speaker 1: who has a very clear idea that it involves some

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Speaker 1: form of intimacy. When kids are exposed to these ideas,

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Speaker 1: we do have evidence that it points to concerns around

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Speaker 1: consent and respect and safety implications. I could talk a

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Speaker 1: lot more about that, but this isn't the podcast for that.

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Speaker 1: A conversation about pornography is really the conversation for that

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Speaker 1: one and the effects of it. What we really need

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Speaker 1: to talk about now is what you can do as

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Speaker 1: a concerned parent who's got a little boy who's bestie

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Speaker 1: is talking this way to him about taking intimate photos

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Speaker 1: of his seven year old girlfriend. So Emily from New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: here is what I would suggest. Number one. Talk to

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Speaker 1: your son gently, very gently, ask him more about what

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Speaker 1: he heard. Now, let's make sure we get the context

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Speaker 1: right in this conversation. I'm inclined to say you want

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Speaker 1: to do it when there's no rush, when there's no

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Speaker 1: sense of pressure, and when he can feel comfortable and

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Speaker 1: confident in talking to you. So maybe it's out on

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Speaker 1: the porch with a milkshake or his favorite drink, and

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Speaker 1: we just want to make sure that he feels comfortable

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Speaker 1: and can talk to you openly about whatever he needs

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about. Find out exactly what his

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Speaker 1: friend said and what his friend did, and how it

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Speaker 1: made him feel when he found that out. Find out

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Speaker 1: how he responded to his friend, what did he say.

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Speaker 1: Your job in this initial conversation is to avoid any judgment.

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Speaker 1: Don't sound like you're alarmed. You really just want to

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Speaker 1: keep those lines of communication open because with a seven

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Speaker 1: year old, once they start to get scared that you're scared,

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Speaker 1: that's when they're most likely to shut down. The second

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Speaker 1: thing that I would recommend, and this might be in

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Speaker 1: the same exploration conversation, or it might be that you

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Speaker 1: pause the conversation and say I'm going to have a

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Speaker 1: chat with your dad or I'm going to have a

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Speaker 1: think about what you've told me, and then we'll work

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Speaker 1: out what to do. I think it's okay to press

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Speaker 1: pause on the conversation. You don't have to do it

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Speaker 1: all at once. It's probably going to be overwhelming for him.

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Speaker 1: He will be experiencing some fairly solid emotions as a

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Speaker 1: result of what's going on. But at some point, either

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Speaker 1: during or shortly that conversation, it's time for discussion where

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Speaker 1: there's some education. I think it's a great opportunity to

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Speaker 1: have an age appropriate conversation about bodies and boundaries and consent.

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Speaker 1: You'll explain things like private parts are private. You'll also

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Speaker 1: explain that it's not okay to take pictures of someone

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Speaker 1: else's body without their permission, and you will probably also

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Speaker 1: need to explain that it's not ever okay to take

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Speaker 1: pictures of somebody's private parts, even if they do give

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Speaker 1: you permission. Now, I know that as an adult, there

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Speaker 1: are going to be some people who say, well, at

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Speaker 1: some point it will be okay with consent and in

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Speaker 1: the appropriate relationship. That's fine if you want to do

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Speaker 1: that as an adult. I'm not going to tell you

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Speaker 1: what to do there. But in terms of conversations with

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Speaker 1: our children, this matters. Why well, because if they're caught

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Speaker 1: with that kind of imagery on their device, they will

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Speaker 1: be registered as sex offenders. Depending on which jurisdiction you're in,

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Speaker 1: there certainly will be very, very very big questions about it,

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Speaker 1: and the risks are simply too great. Now. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to frighten your child with stories about

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Speaker 1: the police or anything like that, but you can let

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Speaker 1: them know that you are concerned about it and find

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Speaker 1: out how they're feeling. They need to know that it's

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Speaker 1: not okay to take pictures of somebody else's body without

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Speaker 1: their permission. As they get older and moving to the

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Speaker 1: team years, we need to teach them that there's no

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Speaker 1: such thing as safe sexting. It just doesn't exist.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The third part of this conversation is that the friend's

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Speaker 1: behavior needs to be addressed, But you want to tread

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Speaker 1: really carefully here. Initially, you're going to say to your son,

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Speaker 1: what do you think is the best thing to do here,

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Speaker 1: and have a general conversation about how the friend is

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Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing. If you know the parents well,

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Speaker 1: I think that it's appropriate to consider discussing it with

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Speaker 1: them privately. If you have evidence of the conversation that

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Speaker 1: goes beyond your son saying my friend told me that

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Speaker 1: he was going to do this, then providing that evidence

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Speaker 1: certainly softens it. Many years ago, one of my children

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Speaker 1: was approached indecently by a boy, a young man, who

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Speaker 1: solicit explicit images from her. She of course said no,

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Speaker 1: and she came to me and she had a screenshot

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Speaker 1: of his request. As a result of that, I was

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Speaker 1: able to go to the parents and say, hey, I

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Speaker 1: don't know the broader context here, but my daughter's a

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Speaker 1: little troubled. I want to send you an image of

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Speaker 1: something that your son has sent through and I'm really

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Speaker 1: happy to chat with you about ways that we can

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Speaker 1: manage this. But it's something that's got me a little

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Speaker 1: bit nervous and concerned. So it's very much not about blaming.

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Speaker 1: It's very much about approaching them softly, treading really carefully,

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Speaker 1: letting them know that you care about the well being

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Speaker 1: and safety of your own child and of their child,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully working on the issue together. Will it always work, No,

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it can absolutely backfire in really significant ways. If

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Speaker 1: that is the case, if you're concerned, an alternative is

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Speaker 1: that you could inform your son's teacher or the school

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Speaker 1: counselor they may be able to address the issue more

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Speaker 1: broadly with all of the children. I'm not convinced that

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Speaker 1: that's going to have nearly the same impact as parent involvement.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the ski school might be willing to address it

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Speaker 1: from a school point of view. The one thing that

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Speaker 1: I'd be really concerned about with this part of the

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Speaker 1: challenge that you're facing is that when the young friend

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Speaker 1: finds out, it's entirely possible that this little kid's going

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Speaker 1: to say no, no, no. He was the one that

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Speaker 1: told me that I should take the photos. I didn't

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Speaker 1: say it, he told it to me. And so all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, your son's now in hot water as well.

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Speaker 1: So it's a really tricky one and you just want

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Speaker 1: to go slowly and tread carefully. Now, let's go back

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Speaker 1: to your son and how you can empower him overwhelmingly,

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Speaker 1: your son has to know, he has to receive the

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Speaker 1: reassurance that he did the right thing by telling you.

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Speaker 1: So how do you do that? You give him a hug,

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Speaker 1: You say, you're so brave, I'm so glad you told me.

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Speaker 1: You let him know all of the good things that

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Speaker 1: he's done here. And you also encourage him to say

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Speaker 1: no if his friend ever ask asks him to do

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Speaker 1: anything that makes him uncomfortable, and to tell trusted adall

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Speaker 1: if he sees or hears anything at all that's concerning.

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Speaker 1: What he could also do is tell his friend that

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Speaker 1: he's not comfortable that his friend wants to do that.

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Speaker 1: He might even tell his friend that he might need

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Speaker 1: to tell somebody if he continues to suggest that he's

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Speaker 1: going to do these things. Your son needs to be empowered.

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Speaker 1: This could make him really unpopular. He could become the

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Speaker 1: pariah of the playground. But right now he's doing the

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Speaker 1: right thing, and at seven, he's doing the developmentally appropriate thing,

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Speaker 1: and he needs to just be embraced because of it.

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Speaker 1: And I guess the last thing that I would say,

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Speaker 1: Emily is stay vigilant. You want to keep an eye

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Speaker 1: on your son's friendships and his online activity. You definitely

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Speaker 1: need to respect his privacy, but he's only seven, so

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Speaker 1: his privacy comes second to his safety. Watch out for

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Speaker 1: red flags, and just keep an eye on him and

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Speaker 1: keep the conversation going. Absolutely, Emily, great question, really important one,

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Speaker 1: and increasingly, as we're seeing more and more young people

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Speaker 1: in kindergarten first grade, second grade, third grade, who are

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Speaker 1: being exposed to explicit content and explicit themes and literally

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Speaker 1: living them out in school playgrounds, in school classrooms, saying

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Speaker 1: things that are inappropriate to their classmates and even their

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Speaker 1: school teachers. We've got to talk about this stuff. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to talk about, it's horrible to talk about, but

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Speaker 1: we need to have the conversations. Why. Because this situation,

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Speaker 1: as concerning as it is, ultimately is an opportunity for you,

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Speaker 1: as a parent to teach your son really valuable lessons

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Speaker 1: about respect and consent, and about boundaries and about what

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Speaker 1: makes a healthy relationship. And if you can be calm

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Speaker 1: and proactive, I think you're going to help and navigate

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Speaker 1: this situation and build a really strong foundation so that

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Speaker 1: he can make safe and responsible choices in the future.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for the question. That's it for today's

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Speaker 1: Ask Justin podcast. If you would like to submit your question,

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Speaker 1: it's just go to Happy families dot com. Use the

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Speaker 1: super simple system on the website, Go to the homepage,

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Speaker 1: click the record button at the podcast section start talking.

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Speaker 1: That's all you need to do. The Happy Family podcast

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Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media. If you

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Speaker 1: want more information, about making your family happier. Send us

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Speaker 1: to your questions happy families dot com dot you, or

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Speaker 1: visit us at our website and social media pages. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Justin Colson's Happy Families