1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Bujelung Calcoltin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: Straight island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Friday, 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: the tenth of March. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. We're all 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: familiar with the parents' influencers filling our feeds with their 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: ascetic family lives. But how much sharing is too much 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: sharing when it comes to kids' safety. 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 3: If you're a parent and you're posting your child on 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: TikTok Instagram for the purpose of trying to blow up 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: get views, not really concerned about your child's safety, that's 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 3: an issue. 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 4: Go down the rabbit hole scare yourself so you can 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 4: start posing your children online. 18 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: Now, a new bill in the French Lower House has 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: brought sharenting into question. So what will this new law 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: mean and is that something the rest of the world 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: should be taking note of. We'll let you know in 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: the deep Dive, But first, Sarah, what's making headlines this 23 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: Friday morning. 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 5: Both major parties in New South Wales have supported a 25 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 5: fair free day to make up for the unexpected shutdown 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 5: of Sydney's train network earlier this week. The network came 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 5: to a standstill on Wednesday afternoon because of an issue 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 5: with the network's radio system. With both the Coalition and 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 5: Labor supporting the fair Free. 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: Measure, The last day of hearings for the Robodett Royal 31 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: Commission will take place today ahead of a final report 32 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: being handed down later this year. An affected employee and 33 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: a personal witness are expected to appear today. Meanwhile, former 34 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Liberal Senator Maurice Paine both 35 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: fronted the Royal Commission during this final hearing block. 36 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 5: Trialing a four day workweek and rapidly expanding paid parental 37 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 5: leave were both recommended as part of a Senate committee 38 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 5: report that was handed down on Thursday. The Senate Work 39 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 5: and Care Committee recommended a full pay four day work 40 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 5: week trial in diverse sectors of the federal government, and 41 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 5: called for expansion of paid parental leave to the international 42 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 5: best practice of fifty two weeks. 43 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: And today's good news this is a bit of a 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: weird one. Australian researchers have discovered how electricity is generated 45 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: from a bacteria substance, giving way to a new sustainable 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: energy source. They found that an enzyme called HUQ is 47 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: behind the electricity generation, with one of the Monash University 48 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 2: researchers saying, quote, the sky is quite literally the limit 49 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: for using it to produce clean energy. A bill that 50 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: aims to stop parents exploiting their children for online fame 51 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: passed France's low Our House of Parliament this week. The 52 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: legislation targets sharenting, a made up word that we're going 53 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 2: to run with today. It's a combination of sharing and parenting. 54 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: You would have definitely come across some sharenting content in 55 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: your social feeds, Influencer parents featuring their kids on TikTok 56 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: or Instagram, sometimes even to promote products. 57 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 5: I'm glad that you acknowledge how absurd that word is, 58 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 5: but we will run with it. What can you tell 59 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 5: me about what this new legislation in France actually sets 60 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 5: out to do. 61 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: Well, there's a bit of context to this law, so 62 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: let me kind of chat you through it. There's a 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: study in twenty eighteen found that a child on averageual 64 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: feature in thirteen hundred photos and videos posted by their 65 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: parents online by their thirteenth birthday. In my personal case, 66 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: that figure probably looked more around the three to four 67 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: thousand marks, so I can definitely see where that stat 68 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: could land. And this new legislation would introduce the concept 69 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: of a child's private life for parents to consider as 70 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: part of their duty of care, and that basically means 71 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: it would legally become parents' responsibility to monitor what images 72 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: are being posted of their child. And in this context, 73 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: we're setting the bar of a child at someone under 74 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: eighteen years of age. Now, this legislation would also allow 75 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: public officials to actually step in if an image seriously 76 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 2: undermines the dignity or integrity of a child. But I 77 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: just wanted to be clear on this point. The law 78 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: doesn't ban posting photos of children on social media, so 79 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: my mum can relax. It does aim, though, to put 80 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: in some protections in place about what parents can post 81 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 2: and for what purpose. 82 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 5: I'm glad that your mum can relax as the mother 83 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 5: of a twenty eight year old son, but what are 84 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 5: some of the areas of concern. I guess where the 85 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 5: law could limit sharing, and again that's for people under 86 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 5: the age of eighteen, right. 87 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess one area this really targets is 88 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: around conflict of interest and potential financial gains of sharing 89 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: content online. And there's a statement that's explaining this new 90 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: French legislation that identifies sharenting as one of the main 91 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 2: invasion of privacy risks amongst children in society. 92 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: Now. 93 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: It says this because parents in this situation are kind 94 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: of both the protector and the manager, and these two 95 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 2: roles are in conflict when the parent is financially, socially 96 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: or emotionally benefiting from sharing images or videos of their kids. 97 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: So in some cases, the new legislation could actually delegate 98 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: the parental authority the protecting bit where the interests of 99 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: the parents come into conflicts with the interests of the child. 100 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 5: Okay, so that goes to addressing the conflict of interest side. 101 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 5: Does the law then go into any detail about what 102 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 5: harm this kind of sharenting is having on kids, on 103 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 5: the actual kids that are online. 104 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: Well, according to the statement that's alongside the laws, there's 105 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: some research that says forty percent of teenagers think their 106 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: parents exposed to much of them on the internet. There 107 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: are also concerns that the excessive exposure for likes or 108 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 2: gratification on the internet can lead to psychological problem, particularly 109 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 2: hear issues with body image. Now. The statement of the 110 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: bill also talks about some of the degrading and humiliating 111 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: experiences that can happen on social media. It even explicitly 112 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: mentions something called the cheese trend. And this was a 113 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: trend where parents literally throw cheese at crying babies. Zara, 114 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 2: I just flicked you some tiktoks of cheese throwing. Would 115 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:23,679 Speaker 2: love to hear your thoughts. 116 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 5: Hey wait, I'm going to watch it. 117 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: Now. Throll a piece of cheese on your baby's face 118 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:33,679 Speaker 3: and see their reaction. Oh, throll a piece of cheese 119 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: at your crying baby. 120 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 2: See what happens. 121 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 5: I don't know whether to laugh or cry. That feels 122 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 5: like either response is wrong. 123 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: I don't know how I would feel having that sort 124 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: of video of me online as a baby being somewhat 125 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: degraded by dairy. But look, I think there is actually 126 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 2: a series undertone to all of this that it's impossible 127 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: to get this stuff off the internet. So for the 128 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 2: children who are growing up with videos of them like 129 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: this happening. Now, it's something to think about. 130 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 5: So the law there is I guess, responding to concerns 131 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 5: for children's psychological welfare, but I imagine there are also 132 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 5: concerns around who can actually access this content. One thing 133 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 5: about say TikTok as a platform is that it's a 134 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 5: discovery platform, so it's not just going out to the people, 135 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 5: you know, it's actually going out to millions and millions 136 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 5: of people every single day. 137 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a particularly disturbing implication of all of this. 138 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: The statement alongside the legislation cites reports from the National 139 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the US saying 140 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: that fifty percent of photographs exchanged on child exploitation forums 141 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: were initially posted by parents. And that's pretty unbelievable to 142 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: think about. Insane and Europeole and Interpol have also been 143 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: warning about content produced either by young people themselves or 144 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: those around them, ending up on child criminal exchanges. It's 145 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: thought that images of naked babies and young girls in 146 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: gym clothes are apparently of particular interest to child exploitation forums. 147 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 5: We'll be back right after this all over the world. 148 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 5: We've seen parliamentarians and the political system struggled to keep 149 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 5: up with this digital boom and kind of this proliferation 150 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 5: of social media platforms. But it seems like France is 151 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 5: really leading the way in this space. Have they made 152 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 5: any other moves related to this sort of thing. 153 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: Well, this has actually been a key pillar of French 154 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: President Emmanuel Macron's party during his time in office. Under 155 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: his government, a law was enacted back in twenty twenty 156 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: to protect child influences from using their social media accounts 157 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: to run a business. And what that means in practice 158 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: is that children have to receive government authorization before they 159 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 2: could enter a business relationship. And this, for the French 160 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: government is another way of providing that checks and balances 161 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: process on the potential conflict of interest between parents and 162 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: their kids. 163 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 5: I think the issue that comes up in my mind 164 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 5: with a single country legislating against this sort of thing 165 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 5: is that it does cross geographical boundaries. So one country, 166 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 5: I guess changing its laws isn't going to necessarily change 167 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 5: the content we're seeing here on the other side of 168 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 5: the world. 169 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and it reminded me of a story 170 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: that was doing the rounds last year where a mum 171 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: in the US was attracting a lot of criticism online 172 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 2: for the content that she was sharing of her daughter, Wren. 173 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 5: I normally comment on TikTok drama, but we need to 174 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 5: talk about the Wren Eleanor and Jacqueline situation. 175 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 3: If you're a parent and you're posting your child on 176 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 3: TikTok Instagram for the purpose of trying to blow up 177 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 3: get views, not really concerned about your child's what they're 178 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: winning in the videos, that's an issue. 179 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 4: If you're a parent, I really encourage you to look 180 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 4: up Reren Eleanor on TikTok, go down the rabbit hole, 181 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 4: scare yourself so you can stop posting your children online. 182 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: So people on TikTok were alleging that these innocent videos 183 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: were attracting comments that were really unsavory and someway, even 184 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: pointing to the number of times the videos had been 185 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: saved on TikTok to argue that Reren's mum, Jacqueline, was 186 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: putting her daughter at risk. And eventually we did hear 187 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: from Jacqueline, who put out this video defending herself. 188 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 6: The past few months have been incredibly distressing and I've 189 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 6: learned a lot. What started out as a hobby to 190 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 6: make a digital scrap book for my daughter, Wren grew 191 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 6: into an interesting role from me. As a single, stay 192 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 6: at home mom, Reren is my number one priority and 193 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 6: her upbringing and safety are my top job. Twenty four 194 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 6: hours a day, this account has allowed me to provide 195 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 6: for my daughter and to set aside money for her future. 196 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 6: I'm not sure how this conspiracy theory got started and 197 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 6: spiraled out of control. What you need to know is 198 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 6: that no law enforcement agencies I conferred with, including the FBI, 199 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 6: have found any proof that my daughter's likeness appears on 200 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 6: inappropriate websites. These rumors are one hundred percent falls now. 201 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: It's worth noting that Jacqueline still puts up videos of 202 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: her daughter, although she has changed her TikTok settings so 203 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: that the videos are harder to save as local copies 204 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: and then distribute. It's going to be really interesting to 205 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: see how lawmakers from around the world come to the table, 206 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 2: and France is leading the way. But it doesn't necessarily 207 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 2: mean that France changing its laws is the end of 208 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: sharingting anytime soon. 209 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 5: Thanks for joining us on the Daily Odds. If you 210 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 5: learned something from today's episode. Don't forget to hit subscribe, 211 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 5: so there's a TVA episode waiting for you every weekday morning. 212 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 5: We'll be back again tomorrow morning, but until then, have 213 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 5: a brilliant time.