1 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: On today's show, Lily Brown's pajama debacle that's on the nose, 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: the beij influencers who are making them mundane aspirational, and 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: the shirtless AFL player blowing up Instagram. Hello and welcome 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: to Outspoken. Is your dose of the hottest influencer and 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: pop culture news twice a week. I'm Kate Torber, and 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to do a shout out to the absolute 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: legend that organized the most epic surprise for the Matildas 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: at their post World Cup celebrations in Brisbane. This person 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: needs a medal. So for some background, a few weeks ago, 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: the Matilda's shared that Strawberry Kisses by Nicki Webster is 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: their team's theme song this year, so they've been playing 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: it in the change rooms to pump themselves up and 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: clearly it's been working. So on Sunday, to the surprise 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: of the girls, someone organized Nicki Webster to join the 15 00:00:53,479 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: team on stage and sing Strawberry Kisses. It's not absolute. 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: I was really surprised that the Matildas were aware of 17 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: this song, because I feel like it's more people of 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: our vintage who love Nicki Webster. We remember her from 19 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: the Olympics and Strawberry Kisses was popular when we were teenagers. 20 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: But I love that this is ongoing now, this is 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: becoming a theme. You say it was popular. I don't 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: think it was ever cool, but it's one of those 23 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: really uncool tracks that suddenly pops up in everyone Spotify playlists. 24 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: Just showed the lack of culture we have here in 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 1: Australia that Nicky Webster is our theme song. I disagree. 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: I think this is absolutely brilliant. It's like how Untouched 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: has become this big anthem for Australians. And I loved 28 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: the players reaction. Sam Kerr was getting involved. At one 29 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: point she was a singing Strawberry Kisses with Nicki Webster. 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: It was absolutely epic. They all had their phones out. 31 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: It kind of was giving me Ted Lasso vibes. The 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: way the players were all getting involved. I reckon Nicki 33 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: Webster would have been ecstatic to get the call up 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: because we haven't heard from her for a while, and 35 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: didn't she just give that performance everything? Yeah, I just 36 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: want to know, can you hire Nicki Webster for performance? 37 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: Why are you looking for your wedding on machine? And 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: you're like, how much would she actually charge. Well, is 39 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: this guy Sebastian about one hundred thousand dollars for a performance? 40 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: Maybe she's twenty five grand. I feel like it'll almost 41 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: be worth a one hundred thousand for strawberry kisses at 42 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: your wedding. 43 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: So we are also working with people at laundromats to 44 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: try and figure out like the best way to remove 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: an odd stench from clothing. 46 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: This is so bizarre. 47 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 2: I just honestly, it's something new every single day I swear. 48 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: Lily Brown has provided influences with a master class on 49 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: how not to respond to criticism. Last week, her sleepwear 50 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: line Chill issued an apology to customers after receiving complaints 51 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: that their latest pajama range has an unusual odor. In 52 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: the email, the brand offered store credit to remedy the issue, 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: omitting the option of a full refund. Now, Sophie, this 54 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: story has had a few twists and turns, including us 55 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 1: being pulled into all the drama. Let's start from the beginning. Yeah, 56 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: it's been quite a wild ride over these past few 57 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: days now. For those who don't know, Lily has been 58 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: running her sleepwear brand Chill for over a year now, 59 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: and at the end of July, she released a new 60 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: collection called Zenith Now. Interestingly, her boyfriend Jet Kenny, who 61 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: is a model and also the son of Lisa Curry. Kenny, 62 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: appeared alongside Lily in the marketing ads as well as 63 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: Lily's mum. Now, these pajamas are not cheap, so on 64 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: the website, Chill describes itself as a premium sleepwear line, 65 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: and in this collection you actually purchase the top and 66 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: bottoms separately, so the top boll set you back eighty 67 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: nine dollars and the bottom's eighty six dollars. They also 68 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: have onesies which are ninety nine dollars, so quite a 69 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: hefty price tag on pajamas. I know bathers are often 70 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: sold separately, like you're buy the bikini top and bikini 71 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: bottom separately, but pajamas aren't something you normally see sold 72 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: like that, like maybe at Peter Alexander, a brand that's 73 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: really established itself. But it's an interesting tactic. I'm guessing 74 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: that she's trying to be really fashioned forward to say 75 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: that you can mix and match these pieces, because the 76 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: pajama pants themselves have this flared style which is quite unique. 77 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: See for me, I think it's just a pure marketing 78 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: tactic to be able to charge more for separate items 79 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: rather than in a set. Yeah. Now, soon after sending 80 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: out the pajamas, Chill received a number of complaints about 81 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 1: an unfamiliar smell coming from them. So on Thursday, Chill 82 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: issued an apology to customers in the form of an email. Interestingly, 83 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: a statement wasn't shared across their social channels, and I 84 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: think that was to minimize the exposure. Now, this email 85 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: was pretty lengthy, and I'm guessing it was written by 86 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: Lily Brown herself because I don't think for a second 87 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: a PR expert would have written this due to some 88 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: of the grammatical errors, and it was quite wordy. Yeah, 89 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of emotive language used throughout 90 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: this letter as well. The word beloved customers kept being 91 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: used a number of times. Now to kick it off, 92 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: this statement was entitled to our beloved Customers and started 93 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: by thanking them for their support. It then went on 94 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: to say, it has come to our attention with some 95 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: feedback we from our beloved customers again take a shot. 96 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: Every time beloved Customers is mentioned that their pieces have 97 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: an unfamiliar scent course by an eco diet, we have 98 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: used now it reiterated that the smell was not an 99 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: unpleasant smell, just not one that is associated normally with clothing. 100 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: It does seem pretty clever to blame the smell on 101 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: this eco diet, because it's basically saying, look where it's 102 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: just a small business who is jumping through hoops to 103 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: ensure these products are sustainable, and unfortunately one of the 104 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: side effects happens to be that your clothes have an 105 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: unfamiliar cell. I do have to take my hat off 106 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: to Lily and her brand for actually having a sustainable 107 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: product in the first place. It is one of the 108 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: first times I've actually heard about the use of eco 109 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: dies and it is unfortunate that it is in a 110 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: negative way. Maybe that's why the pajamas are quite expensive 111 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: as well, due to the fact that they're sustainably produced. Yeah, 112 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: I do get all that, because sometimes I think business 113 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: owners probably feel like they can't win because they either 114 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: get criticized because it's not eco friendly, and now in 115 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: this case, it's been criticized because of the smell associated. However, 116 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: I think when customers are paying such a high price 117 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: point for a product, they are expecting a lot from it. Yeah, 118 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: I did a bit of digging into eco dies and 119 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: they are made of a range of different things like 120 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: plants and algae and bacteria, and online it says that 121 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: they have a smell because they are natural and born 122 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: out of a natural process, and apparently the smell can 123 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: come from the bacterial fermentation process. And one of our 124 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: lovely listens did actually write in to explain in her 125 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: words what it smelt like. So she said, the Chill 126 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: was stanky. Let me tell you it smelt like boiled 127 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: eggs after you peel it. Best way to describe it. Now, 128 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: just to preface that is one customer's opinion and reference 129 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: of what the smell was like. I haven't had the 130 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: word stanky used for a while. That was very year nine. 131 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: I feel like stanky was a nine world. It's clear 132 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: they might be a little bit stinky because in a statement, 133 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: Chill did urge their customers to wash the pajamas twice 134 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: before wearing them with white vinegar and bicarb soda for 135 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: the smell to subside. Personally, if I just bought these 136 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: expensive pajamas, that would be the last thing I'd want 137 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: to be doing. One vinegar has quite a potent smell, 138 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: is that, because that's going to overtake the stench. The 139 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: worst thing is anytime you actually look for a natural remedy, 140 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: you know, if your cat vomits on the car, but 141 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: or something happens, it's always like, oh, add vinegar to 142 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: it and buy a cub and it always stinks worse. Yeah, 143 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: it does. And I thought that vinegar and buy cubzda 144 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: canceled each other out. So can you imagine giving these 145 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: pajamas to someone as a gift? You're like, sorry, by 146 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: the way, you're just gonna have to wash these twice 147 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: before wearing them. Yeah. Well, The customer email finished up 148 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: by outlining two options that customers could take to remedy 149 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: the issue. So customers who wanted to keep their pajamas 150 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: were told they could get fifty percent store credit, while 151 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: those who wanted to return them could get one hundred 152 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: percent store credit. Now, there was no mention of a 153 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: full refund, and the statement reiterated that the quality of 154 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: the garment isn't compromised, just that the ccent is unusual. 155 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: In my opinion, it almost seems as though Chill was 156 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: trying to reiterate that the pajamas weren't faulty because under 157 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: consumer law, if an item is faulty, customers are guaranteed 158 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: a full refund. Again, that is just my opinion. Yeah, Well, 159 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: when this story broke, we jumped on it pretty quickly. Well, 160 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: you jumped it on quickly. You actually released a reel. 161 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: You did call the pajamas chili at the time. I did, 162 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: And I have to say, the reason I thought the 163 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: pajamas were called chili is because Lily Brown has a 164 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: chili tattoo on her. It's funny because I was watching 165 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: that shot at video that her and Michael Finch did recently, 166 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: and Michael Finch actually thought her pajama range was called 167 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: chilli as well, and she's like, what the hell Now? 168 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: In this reel that I put out, I want to say, 169 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: we didn't actually give our opinions at all. I just 170 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: reiterated the key facts from the statement and outlined that 171 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: store credit was offered rather than a refund. Now, the 172 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: next day we copped a DM from Lily Brown asking 173 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: us to take the video down, and we declined. Yeah, 174 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: And then the following day, Lily went and publicly commented 175 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: on the video, calling our report fake news and claimed 176 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: that we had slanted her name and her business's name. 177 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: She also said not issuing refunds would be against the law. 178 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: So we responded saying reporting on a statement a brand 179 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: has issued to customers is not slander, and we reiterated 180 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: the offer of store credit was the only option listed 181 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: in the apology to customers. We also reminded Lily of 182 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: her business's obligations under Australian consumer law. Now, for the record, 183 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: under Australian consumer law, consumers are entitled to the solution 184 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: of a repair, replacement or a refund if a product 185 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: or service they buy has a major problem. Now this 186 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: is where things got interesting. So Lily responded that the 187 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: option of a full refund was always there, but she 188 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: was just simply giving her customers all the options possible. 189 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: Now bear in mind the option for a refund was 190 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: omitted from the customer email and the only solution provided 191 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: was store credit. Yeah, I don't understand that, because she 192 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: says I gave the customers all the possible options. But 193 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: as you said in the statement, the option of a 194 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: full refund was not listed. It's not all of the 195 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: possible options. But Sophie, apparently people are just meant to 196 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: know this already well. When we asked Leale why a 197 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: full refund was emitted from the customer email, she responded saying, 198 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: any consumer knows that if you pay for something that 199 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: is faulty, you're entitled to a refund. So apparently, as 200 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: you said, Amy, it was so obvious that you could 201 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: get a full refund that Chill decided not to include 202 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: it in the customer email and instead only outline store 203 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: credit options. And in saying this, Lily has also confirmed 204 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: that the product was faulty. See if I got that email, 205 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: I would assume that they were my only two options. Yeah, exactly, 206 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: And I do want to point out that during this 207 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: exchange with Lily, she also mentioned that a full refund 208 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: is always an option on her website. However, I went 209 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: and had a look at Chill's website on their returns 210 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: page and it specifically says this about faulty items in 211 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: the rear. Event that you receive a faulty item, please 212 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: email us within five days of receiving your orders with 213 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: the image and information of the faults so we can 214 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: review and provide a store credit note. You need smellogram 215 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: then to send that agree. The thing that makes me 216 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: so mad is that you can't just assume that every 217 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: customer knows that Hble sees rules, particularly when she is 218 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: appealing to a younger demographic who'd across all of this. 219 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: And I'd rather that Chill was just upfront and said, look, 220 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: we'd rather take store credit because it's really difficult being 221 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: a small business and we don't want to lose money 222 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: issuing these refunds. Because, as she said it was she 223 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: did sell out apparently, even though there were some options 224 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: still online. Yeah, that's right. The range was promoted as 225 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: selling out, so it's obviously a business that's doing pretty 226 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: well for itself. The good news is that Lily did 227 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: confirm that refunds are being processed now. We have had 228 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: a number of Chills customers reach out to us saying 229 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: that they had to fight for a refund and they 230 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: were initially offered the store credit, but now since our 231 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: video has gone quite viral, they're getting a refund, which 232 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: is great, which is what we wanted. Yeah, definitely, And 233 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: following this, Lily went on Chill's Instagram account and address 234 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: the backlash. She said that they've been working to fix 235 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: the solution, even teaming up with laundromats to see if 236 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: they could crack the code on getting rid of the smell. 237 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: Here's what she said. 238 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: I wanted to assue Happy Friday firstly, and secondly, I 239 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 2: just wanted to jump on and chat about something that's 240 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: happened in the last week. That is, get a little 241 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: bit of airtime now that people have gone ahead and 242 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: made a more so condensed issue public, which is fine. 243 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: I understand that people talk, that's all good, But I 244 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 2: just wanted to jump on because I owe it to 245 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: you guys to give you an explanation. So last Thursday, 246 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: we launched our Zenith range, which went super well. We 247 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: sold out the collection, which is amazing, and thank you 248 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: so much for your support with that. 249 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: I adore you guys, Thank you so much. 250 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 2: We did have a handful of people who had received 251 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: pajamas for some reason that had a. 252 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 3: Very odd scent attached to them. 253 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 2: This is something that I have never experienced since starting 254 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: the brand. If you are a peak customer of Chill, 255 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: you will know that you've never experienced a cent issue 256 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: with our pajamas. It's just not something that I've had 257 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: to deal with before. So when I was a aware 258 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: of the issue, I sent out a big email I 259 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: think it was on Monday or Tuesday, I think Tuesday 260 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: afternoon to everyone who purchased, and then I kind of 261 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: found out the amount of orders that this was affecting. 262 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 3: Sent out different options as to what they wanted to do. 263 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 2: Whether they wanted a store credit, like fifty percent store 264 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: credit was the first option, one hundred percent store credit, 265 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: send the close back fifty percent if you wanted to 266 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 2: keep them. Always and has always been and will always be, 267 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: if the clothing is deemed faulty, you are always eligible 268 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: for a refund. 269 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 3: That is the law. That is how I've always run 270 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 3: my business. 271 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 2: If you are a customer who received an email and 272 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 2: you would like a full refund, we have issued refunds 273 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: for this issue already. If you would like a refund, 274 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: you are absolutely entitled to that. I know a lot 275 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: of you want to keep your pieces, So we are 276 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: also working with people at laundromats to try and figure 277 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: out like the best way to remove an odd stench 278 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: from clothing. 279 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 3: This is so bizarre. I just honestly, it's. 280 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: Something new every single day, I swear, but please send 281 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: us an email if you are still trying to get 282 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: this scent out of your pajamas. We've had people come 283 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: back and say they've cracked the code, so there is 284 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: hope again, super strange. 285 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 3: I just don't want there. 286 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: To be any more you know, weirdness surrounding this. 287 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: I'm trying to do my best. I've never had to 288 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 3: be in this situation before. 289 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 2: I only want to do what's right by you guys, 290 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: and I want to make you guys happy, and I 291 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: just want your trust and faith. And yeah, that's pretty 292 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: much it. So again, I'll leave the email on the screen. 293 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: If you have any questions, please go ahead and reach out. 294 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: We are more than happy to help you get back 295 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: to you. Keep them, don't keep them, get a refund, 296 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: whatever you would like to do. All is an option. 297 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: So yeah, again, thanks so much for the support. We 298 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: really really appreciate it and can't wait to just hopefully 299 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: never have this issue again. 300 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have used the term crack the code because 301 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: put the connotation out there that is so difficult to 302 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: get the smell out of these pajamas. But also doesn't 303 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: it confirm that their original remedy of the vinegar and 304 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: biicarb soda washing it two times doesn't work. Yeah, it 305 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: kind of reminded me of that sign for an episode 306 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: when the valet has bo and George can't get the 307 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: smell out of his car like it was giving this 308 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: type of vibe and they say it's ruining everyone's life, 309 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: just attaching itself to everyone. Look, I do want to 310 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: say it is very commendable for Chill to be aiming 311 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: to be sustainable, and I do think more people should 312 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: be using eco dies. But it doesn't mean that you 313 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: can use this as an excuse to why your product 314 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: wasn't actually up to standard. Yeah, I think that there 315 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: still needs to be very stringent quality control in place 316 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: to ensure that there is no spell, particularly because this 317 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: isn't their first drop. I assume that they've been using 318 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: ecodes for a length of time now. And to be honest, 319 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: it's a little bit hard to sympathize with the struggles 320 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: of an influencer led brand that consistently sells out a 321 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: very expensive pajamas. Yes, Chill is a small business and 322 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: one that has had a massive leg up in this 323 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: industry due to an in bill audience that Lily has 324 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: brought to the brand, and in this situation, I have 325 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: a lot more compassion and empathy for the customers who 326 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: spent a lot of money on a product that she 327 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: has then come out and said is faulty. I do 328 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: think Lily was trying to garner some sympathy through those 329 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: Instagram stories, though, because she did mention the fact that 330 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: she runs a small business, and I think had she 331 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: put out that messaging originally and not tried to hide 332 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: the fact that this was happening, I think a lot 333 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: of people may have reacted differently to this. I think 334 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: she should have also just had a bit of fun 335 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: with it, because at the end of the day, smelly pajamas, 336 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: that's kind of funny. Yeah, but it's damaging. 337 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: Look. 338 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: It's not a great look for the brand. But I 339 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: think Lily has really given us a masterclass in how 340 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: not to react to an issue. Because if she had 341 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: come out on the front foot to begin with and 342 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: said I'm so sorry this issue has happened, everyone gets 343 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: a full refund, I think people would have been like, cool, 344 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: it's a small business. But the fact that you know 345 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: they were being pushed into getting store credit and the 346 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: option of a refund was omitted is a bit questionable. 347 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: And I think the way that she came out to 348 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: defend herself. It wasn't very professional. Now you think things 349 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: couldn't get worse or more comical. On Monday afternoon, which 350 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: is today, we received an email from Lily Brown's manager, 351 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: who is the director for em and Co Creative. Now. 352 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: In this email, she accused us of defamation and slander 353 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: and said if we didn't agree to their terms, they 354 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: would seek legal action. Now it's clear this letter was 355 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: designed to threaten and intimidate us into not talking about 356 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,479 Speaker 1: Lily on this podcast today, and also they wanted us 357 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: to take down all of the social media commentary around Lily. 358 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 2: Now. 359 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: We were told if we also didn't keep this email confidential, 360 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: we would have another legal issue on our hands. This 361 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: reminded me of that ridiculous cease and desist letter that 362 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: Coriina Irbie's lawyer sent to that guy that called her 363 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: out for photoshopping back at May. Is just laughable. You 364 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: think she'd at least get a lawyer to send out 365 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: this kind of email. Yeah, the fact that Lily has 366 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: engaged her manager to threaten us legally makes it clear 367 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: that her threats are just futile. I mean, her manager 368 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: has zero legal authority. Secondly, it's absolutely absurd this claim. 369 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: In the unlikely event that a defamation claim would even 370 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: make it to court, we would be protected by the 371 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: truth defense because she was customer email and Lily's ongoing 372 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: commentary substantiates what we said was also, all we have 373 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: said is facts. It leaves a really bad taste in 374 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: my mouth because it just makes me think how many 375 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: emails like this to influences send out to try and 376 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: intimidate people or try and stop them from saying anything 377 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: about themselves or their businesses. All we have done is 378 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: literally comment on a statement that was sent out to 379 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: the statement share the statement that she It's just ridiculous. 380 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: We are going to post the link to the full 381 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: letter because it is quite comical. Get you popcorn ready now? 382 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: One comment that Lily's manager said that I would like 383 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: to rebut is that she said that we are not 384 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: a reputable news source and we don't have all of 385 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: the facts. Now. Not to sound like a wanker, but 386 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 1: I do want to point out for those who perhaps 387 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: are new to this podcast, we each hold a journalism 388 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: and a master's in journalism. We've also worked in newsrooms 389 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: and in the PR space for over thirteen years. We've 390 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: been on Channel seven News channel ten years. We've worked 391 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: in radio. Our platform is completely reputable. It's interesting she 392 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: said we don't have all the facts when we clearly 393 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: reported on the facts that were provided to customers. Now, 394 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: we haven't responded to this email because it really isn't 395 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: worth the paper it's written on. But if the manager 396 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: is looking for a bit of late night listening, I 397 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: would advise to listen to the attached language is in 398 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: our show notes. It's an interview we did with lawyer 399 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: John Laxon all about defamation. I think every influencer listening 400 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: should go and have a listener and educate peace Swami. 401 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: John is your personal lawyer. You were involved in a 402 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 1: legal case against Channel seven that he sorted out, so 403 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: he is quite a prestigious lawyer in the defamation and 404 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: media space. So yeah, maybe if Lilly Brown's manager wanted 405 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: to hear what he thinks about defamation and his definition 406 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: of it, I think it might actually help her quite 407 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: a bit. This is what really straights me though, that 408 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: any time an influencer is spoken about their default thing 409 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: to say is that's defamatory, when they have no understanding 410 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: of what the word defamatory or slander bean and. 411 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 2: As much as about whether a person feels they've been 412 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 2: defined or whether the other person intended to defame them, 413 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 2: the test is what the ordinary and reasonable person would think. 414 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 3: There are a variety of defenses available to a defamation crime. 415 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 3: The most widely known one is the defensive truth. 416 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: There are several others, also public interest recording in the 417 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: public interest. 418 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: I don't think I have been so heavily invested in 419 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: a Friday night footy game until last week when Brisbane 420 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: Lions player Devon Robinson made headlines for having his shirt 421 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: ripped off during the game. I happened to be watching 422 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: this game, and when I say watching, all my attention 423 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: was on TikTok and my tire food. But suddenly something 424 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: sparked my interest. Well, for those who haven't seen it, basically, 425 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: Devon had his jersey ripped off in the middle of 426 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: the ground by a Collingwood play. And this was midway 427 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: through the second term. And this is something you see 428 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: quite a bit, like players do get their jerseys ripped, 429 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: but this was unlike anything I have seen before because 430 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: he kept playing shirtless. Yeah. Well, first what happened was 431 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: it was sort of like a bib around him, so 432 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: he remained on in this bib state, and then he 433 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: got tackled again and he got so frustrated that he 434 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: tore the jersey off, and for seven minutes of the 435 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: game he was running around shirtless. And this guy, if 436 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: we haven't made it obvious, is completely ripped. Normally, when 437 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: something like this happens, the runner will go and deliver 438 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: a new jersey, but this guy had no interest in 439 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: getting the jersey off. Yeah, the commentators had a field 440 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: day with it. So Brian Taylor was saying, he is 441 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: loving it. He's almost flexing, and he doesn't want to 442 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: come to the bench. I've never seen someone enjoy this 443 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: so much. And after the game, the Lions coach Chris Fagan, 444 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: he was questioned over the incident and he said that 445 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: he wasn't sure if it was completely legal and within 446 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 1: the game because obviously the players have to have their 447 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: numbers present, But he said that if he had Devon's build, 448 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: he'd be pretty happy running around for another couple of 449 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: minutes with no top on. This picture of him topless 450 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: on the field went off on social media. That's where 451 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: IFIRS or I was not wasting my time on a 452 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: Friday night watching footage, I was scrolling on Facebook and 453 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: I was like, what's this. Well, yeah, it definitely did 454 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: cause a stir, even on X. It's so weird to 455 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: call it X, which is Twitter. So on X so 456 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: many people writing about this. One guy said, furiously refreshing 457 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: Instagram to see how many followers Devin Robertson gained in 458 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: the next few minutes, and he had quite a point, 459 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: because this is where things get wild, because Devn's social 460 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: media following has exploded. So before the shirtless incident, he 461 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: had eleven point one thousand followers, and at the time 462 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: of recording that has grown to forty one point one 463 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: thousand followers. I think a lot of people may have 464 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: been going over to his Instagram account to suss out 465 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: what his relationship status was. People will be disappointed he 466 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: is taken. Yeah, now for complete research, I did go 467 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: and have a look at his page for this segment, 468 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: and I was actually quite disturbed at how young he looks. 469 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: He's only twenty two years old. And I wanted to 470 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: see though, because I think the only AFL player who 471 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: has really become an influencer in his own right is 472 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: Bailey Smith. He's the western Bulldogs guy with the mullet. Yeah, 473 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: and we've spoken about him on the podcast before because 474 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: he was rumored to be dating Katia Milan. Yeah. Well, 475 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: he is the most followed AFL player on Instagram. He 476 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: has three hundred and thirty nine thousand followers. So Devon 477 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: does still have a way to go. But I do 478 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: wonder if brands are going to be clever enough and 479 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: jump on Devon now and start doing some really fun 480 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: endorsement deals with him. I feel like there's so many 481 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: ads that you could have fun with it. Well, the 482 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: comments on his photos are hilarious. Someone wrote lots of 483 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: people here after the shirtless moment, question Mark and eight 484 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: hundred and five people like Thissen can't get enough of Outspoken. 485 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: If you're left wanting more each week, then it might 486 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: be time to subscribe to Outspoken Plus. Outspoken Plus is 487 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: our subscription offering that gives subscribers access to a bonus 488 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: episode every week. If you sign up now, you can 489 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: enjoy our back catalog, already full of scandalous influencer d 490 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: dives and behind the scenes conversations so juicy we've had 491 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: to put them behind a paywall. 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This is exactly what I look 502 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: like when they first week up. Journalist Sarah Manivers has 503 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: coined a new term for a category of influencers who 504 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: are making them mundane aspirational. They're called beij influencers. Now, 505 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: if you're a young female on TikTok, you will know 506 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: exactly the type of content these influencers create. So they're 507 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: the ones who are hypnotically mixing milk into their ice 508 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: chires with a glass straw, or they're doing a seven 509 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: step nighttime routine before they head to better and amongst 510 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: they're aesthetically pleasing content. There is a clear message which 511 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: is to romanticize your life. Now, this concept of romanticizing 512 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: your life, it really took off during the pandemic and 513 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: it was a way to encourage people to appreciate life 514 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: simple pleasures. And that was because we really didn't have 515 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: much to look forward to. Yeah, it's all about being 516 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: positive about the things that your life has to offer, 517 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: regardless of your circumstances. So often you'll see people on 518 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: TikTok really embracing mundane daily activities and making them a 519 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: little bit more special. So it might be that they 520 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: have their morning coffee in a fancy glass in the sun, 521 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: or they might buy fresh flowers for their house just because. 522 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: But do you think people actually legitimately do it or 523 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: they just do it to film to put it on 524 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: social media. Well, I think there's a bit of both. 525 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: For me, one of my things to romanticize my life 526 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: is I'm trying. I think I spoke about this in 527 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: the subscriber episode is I will always have my kombucher 528 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: in a fancy wine glass. And for some reason, it 529 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: just makes the experience seem better. It makes it feel 530 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: like not a celebration, but a moment of enjoying your 531 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: sitting down from romantic Yeah, and it's very much elevating 532 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: very boring tasks to aspirational status. It's funny because people 533 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: can't get enough of watching people romanticize their lives, and 534 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: you see a lot of content of people cooking dinner 535 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: at home and working out at five am, or lighting 536 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: a candle or going to Starbucks, and these very mundane 537 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: tasks are becoming very celebrated and quite trendy to be 538 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: doing well. It's thought of the opposite of what social 539 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: media initially was. Because social media got touted as a 540 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: highlights reel, so you would only put up a photo 541 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: of yourself when you were going out to town looking 542 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: your best, or you're at a birthday party or whatever 543 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: it was. We didn't see people just doing regular things. 544 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: I wonder if it also has something to do with 545 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: our age group, because in your thirties, these are the 546 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: sort of things when you've got kids, or when life 547 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: is a little bit slower perhaps and you're not going 548 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: out every weekend. These are the things that you enjoy doing. 549 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: See it's actually gen Zetas who are jumping on board 550 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: this trend as well, which makes it even more interesting 551 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: because while they are known as a very socially progressive generation. 552 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: There are reports emerging that they are having less sex 553 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: than previous generations, drinking less alcohol, and doing less drugs. 554 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: So these sorts of beige influencer trends are actually being 555 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: marketed on TikTok as being morally superior, and that's why 556 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: it seems like gen Zettas are jumping on board. And 557 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty funny when you think about it. It's like 558 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: that gen Zetas are rebelling against this progression and they're 559 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: adopting a lifestyle that is really the opposite. And ironically, 560 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: it's a lifestyle that has been encouraged for many centuries, 561 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: which is basically leading a very low risk boring life 562 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: is easier and safer. I found it quite interesting because 563 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: in this article, the journalist explored how this trend is 564 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: now reflected in the world's biggest influences like Molly May 565 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: and Matilda derf And if you look at these two women, 566 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: they are renowned for their very monochromatic beige esthetics and 567 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 1: they both share about having these monogamous relationships that are 568 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: long term relatedtionships. They also decorate their houses all in beige, 569 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: and they also make an emphasis of saying that they 570 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: prefer spending a night in rather than going out. So 571 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: it's clear that jen Z's and millennials are adopting these 572 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: characteristics because they want to be like their favorite influencers. Yeah, 573 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: And I think it's also because the world is so 574 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: unpredictable at the moment and people want a sense of 575 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: control over something. And I think if you have a 576 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: very structured routine, you do get security in that. And 577 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: you know, well, I might not be able to control 578 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: what's going on in the world at the moment, but 579 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: I know that at five am, I'm going to do 580 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: my workout and at nine am, I'm going to have 581 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: a really nice coffee. Well. The journalist's main issue with 582 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: this trend is that she thinks that people are going 583 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: to be deeply dissatisfied if they subscribe to this very 584 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: monotonous lifestyle. She wrote, we should be wary of those 585 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: trying to convince us that anything less is the best 586 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: the world has to offer. She's also really concerned that 587 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: everyone will just start acting and looking the same as 588 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: this trend continues and grows, and she's also very skeptical 589 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: in the fact that influencers actually monetizing these boring lifestyles, 590 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: so many influencers will share their morning routine and then 591 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: link all the products that they've used and get money. Yes, 592 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: it's actually genius though, because it's the perfect way to 593 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: incorporate lifestyle brands in the content that you produce. Do 594 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: you think they were seeing a sense of influence as 595 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: being more Beije in every aspect though, because I feel 596 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: like a lot of influencers are scared to say anything 597 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: and it's actually safer for them to be Beije in 598 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: every aspect of their life online. I also think it's 599 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: got a lot to do with the algorithm, and the 600 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: algorithm at the moment favors these types of routines. So 601 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: you often see influencers putting out the same content every 602 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: week because they know what one stage is going to 603 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: go off and people are going to go to their page. 604 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: So I think it's a mixture of well, I don't 605 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: want to say anything that counsels me, and I'm just 606 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: going to play it safe and do what everyone else 607 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: is doing. 608 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 3: Well. 609 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: I think that's all we've got time for today. Thank 610 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: you so much for listening to another episode of Outspoken. Now, 611 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: if you do want to hear more content from us. 612 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: We do have a new series dropping tomorrow. An outspoken 613 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: plus very excited about this one. It's all the scandals 614 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: involving High five. 615 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 616 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,719 Speaker 1: I can't wait for that one now. This episode was 617 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: recorded on the traditional land of the Ghana people of 618 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to elders past and present.