WEBVTT - Why more young Aussies are drinking less

0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Already, and this is the daily This is the daily os.

0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:16.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to

0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.919
<v Speaker 2>the Daily Ours. It's Friday, the ninth of January. I'm

0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Emma Gillespie.

0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:21.239
<v Speaker 3>I'm Emily Donahue.

0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:25.200
<v Speaker 2>The new year is often a time for reflections, goal setting,

0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:29.280
<v Speaker 2>and resolutions, but January can also follow for some of us,

0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.879
<v Speaker 2>a period of heavy or frequent drinking as part of

0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.360
<v Speaker 2>the festive season. But the hangover from that festive season

0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.640
<v Speaker 2>is actually seeing an increasing number of young people reducing

0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:43.920
<v Speaker 2>or re evaluating their relationship with alcohol. This is what's

0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.840
<v Speaker 2>known as the sober curiosity movement. I'm sure you've heard

0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.239
<v Speaker 2>all about it, and it is a booming industry. So

0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.640
<v Speaker 2>today we're exploring this movement with TDA journalist Emily m.

0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the pod pod debut.

0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:58.680
<v Speaker 3>Hello, thanks for having me.

0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for being here. You've been going deep on

0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.959
<v Speaker 2>sober curiosity, and I feel like it is a movement

0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.399
<v Speaker 2>that we're hearing a lot more about, but still a

0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:12.080
<v Speaker 2>relatively new one. So I guess, and what is it?

0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Where do we start? How do I become someone who

0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:16.240
<v Speaker 2>is sober curious?

0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:18.600
<v Speaker 3>So the term came from a twenty eighteen book by

0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.160
<v Speaker 3>an author called Ruby Warrington, and that book is called

0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.120
<v Speaker 3>Sober Curious, okay, And someone who is sober curious is

0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.880
<v Speaker 3>not fully sober, but they're making more conscious decisions around

0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.160
<v Speaker 3>their alcohol consumption. So this could look like joining in

0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.960
<v Speaker 3>drag January, which is a relevant one right now for us,

0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.200
<v Speaker 3>or doing feb Fast, or simply just not having an

0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.200
<v Speaker 3>alcoholic drink at an event that we would typically associate

0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.040
<v Speaker 3>with drinking, like a wedding or a party, okay, or

0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:43.880
<v Speaker 3>a Christmas event.

0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:49.320
<v Speaker 2>So sober curious doesn't necessarily mean someone is ditching alcohol altogether.

0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.240
<v Speaker 2>They're just, I guess, becoming more mindful about when they

0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:52.800
<v Speaker 2>consume it.

0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.040
<v Speaker 3>Is that right, yes, one hundred percent. And some sober

0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.200
<v Speaker 3>curious people like Dom I'll tell you a little bit

0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.240
<v Speaker 3>about later, start off sober curious and then they I've

0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.560
<v Speaker 3>write in after feeling better when they're alcohol free. And

0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.160
<v Speaker 3>it's certainly an effective way to reduce the beloved anxiety.

0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, anxiety in January is a special kind of anxiety, okay.

0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.320
<v Speaker 2>So sober curiosity can look like just changing a few

0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.840
<v Speaker 2>of your habits, reducing how much you drink, but it

0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:18.840
<v Speaker 2>can act as this kind of gateway, I suppose to

0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:23.560
<v Speaker 2>cutting out alcohol all together. How common is sober curiosity

0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:24.800
<v Speaker 2>here in Australia.

0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.720
<v Speaker 3>So a twenty twenty five study by the Foundation for

0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.799
<v Speaker 3>Alcohol Research and Education found that forty four percent of

0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.320
<v Speaker 3>Australians who do drink want to consume less or stop

0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.519
<v Speaker 3>drinking altogether, which is more than the twenty twenty study

0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.480
<v Speaker 3>which was twenty nine percent of respondents.

0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:39.760
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so around one in three Aussies was sober curious

0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:47.680
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty five years later that increased to nearly half.

0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.240
<v Speaker 2>What about young people specifically.

0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.080
<v Speaker 3>So, according to the latest National Drug and Alcohol Survey data,

0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.560
<v Speaker 3>the number of eighteen to twenty four year olds who

0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.400
<v Speaker 3>are abstaining from alcohol increased from thirteen percent in two

0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.959
<v Speaker 3>thousand and seven to twenty three percent, so almost a

0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.320
<v Speaker 3>quarter in twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three.

0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And that's the latest available data we have from

0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:09.600
<v Speaker 2>that survey. So I guess we can assume that that

0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.160
<v Speaker 2>number has increased even further in the last couple of years.

0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm interested to understand sober curiosity on a global scale,

0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I guess m because we've got that data from Australia.

0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.160
<v Speaker 2>We know Australians are thinking at least about drinking less,

0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.320
<v Speaker 2>but what about elsewhere in the world.

0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so we are in a social media world where

0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.720
<v Speaker 3>trends can transcend countries and nations, and the trend is

0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.080
<v Speaker 3>definitely not limited to Australia. A US based survey in

0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.240
<v Speaker 3>December twenty twenty four found that sixty five percent of

0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.720
<v Speaker 3>gen Z respondents and fifty seven percent of millennial respondents

0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.800
<v Speaker 3>were trying to drink less in the twenty twenty five

0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:44.240
<v Speaker 3>New Year.

0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.760
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's a lot of young people both generations straddled

0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.080
<v Speaker 2>by that data there. I guess the big question m

0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.840
<v Speaker 2>is why, what is the reason that people take an

0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:58.360
<v Speaker 2>interest in sober curiosity?

0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:00.680
<v Speaker 3>Sure, so if we look at those surveys and that pole,

0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.280
<v Speaker 3>it found in the US that around forty percent of

0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.840
<v Speaker 3>the gen Z respondents so that they are drinking less

0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.760
<v Speaker 3>to improve their mental health, and half of sober GenZ

0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.680
<v Speaker 3>participants that they simply just don't want to drink alcohol.

0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.880
<v Speaker 3>Back home, the Fair study Yeah, which was an age

0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.359
<v Speaker 3>specific found that people didn't want to drink for a

0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.240
<v Speaker 3>variety of reasons, mostly for their physical health, but also

0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.120
<v Speaker 3>for their mental health and to improve their sleep.

0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's so interesting that the divide is almost even

0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.719
<v Speaker 2>amongst young people. According to that US survey, we've got

0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.080
<v Speaker 2>nearly half saying they want to drink less for mental

0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.480
<v Speaker 2>health benefits, nearly half saying that they just don't want

0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:42.640
<v Speaker 2>to drink alcohol. Fascinating kind of generational comparison there. I'm

0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:48.520
<v Speaker 2>also interested in the kind of marketing side of sober curiosity.

0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.479
<v Speaker 2>I guess we've seen a real shift in the last

0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.799
<v Speaker 2>few years in how beverage companies have approached their marketing.

0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.279
<v Speaker 2>How has this all manifested in the alcohol free drinks market?

0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm sure you've seen more alcohol free options at

0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.359
<v Speaker 3>a bottle shop or at a bar, at a restaurant.

0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely.

0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.240
<v Speaker 3>I spoke with the Alcohol Beverages Australia executive director Alistair Coo,

0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.919
<v Speaker 3>and he said that alcoholic drink producers are changing and

0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.720
<v Speaker 3>innovating in response to more consumers being quote deliberate about

0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:17.359
<v Speaker 3>what they drink.

0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've certainly noticed more options. You know, cocktail menus

0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:26.400
<v Speaker 2>will often have a corresponding mocktail menu or entire you know,

0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.800
<v Speaker 2>pages and pages of alcohol free options. Now, one market

0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.200
<v Speaker 2>that seems to have grown a lot is the alcohol

0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.160
<v Speaker 2>free beer market especially right.

0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.119
<v Speaker 3>Yes, for sure. So am Z estimated that the zero

0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.320
<v Speaker 3>alcohol beer market is going to grow from one hundred

0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.120
<v Speaker 3>and fifty million leaders produced in twenty twenty four to

0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.080
<v Speaker 3>three hundred million leaders produced in twenty twenty eight. So

0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:49.520
<v Speaker 3>that's double in four years.

0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow. A lot of people drinking a lot of alcohol

0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:52.680
<v Speaker 2>free beer.

0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.039
<v Speaker 3>Definitely, And one of those brands is Heaps Normal, which

0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.080
<v Speaker 3>was launched in twenty twenty by Andy Miller, Ben Holdstock

0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.159
<v Speaker 3>and Jordie Smith. And he told me that since founding

0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.640
<v Speaker 3>Heaps Normal, he noticed that the drinking culture has and

0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.120
<v Speaker 3>I quote shifted from it being weird not to drink

0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.880
<v Speaker 3>to it being weird to ask somebody why they're not drinking.

0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that social conversation has been a really interesting shift

0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:13.760
<v Speaker 2>for sure.

0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, definitely. And rather than opting for soft drinks, water

0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.440
<v Speaker 3>or coffee, sober curious people are sometimes drawn to more

0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.400
<v Speaker 3>sophisticated beverages, maybe those that replicate what they had when

0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.719
<v Speaker 3>they were drinking, and the market shows that absolutely. On

0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.520
<v Speaker 3>the other hand, though, alcohol free products that taste like

0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.760
<v Speaker 3>their alcoholic counterparts can sometimes be the wrong drink for

0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.719
<v Speaker 3>those on their sober journey and Sober in the Country

0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.800
<v Speaker 3>founder Shanna Ian has urged those who are in a

0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.280
<v Speaker 3>fragile recovery period from alcohol to please be really cautious

0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.120
<v Speaker 3>around drinks that imitate alcohol. She said, for some they're safe,

0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:48.799
<v Speaker 3>but for others they're linked to relapse.

0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that is really interesting because I suppose this market

0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.520
<v Speaker 2>boom has seen a lot of alcohol free or love

0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.960
<v Speaker 2>alcohol products emerge that taste just like the quote unquote

0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 2>real things. So fascinating perspective there, Emily, you actually spoke

0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:08.159
<v Speaker 2>to someone who has lived this journey and gone through

0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:12.800
<v Speaker 2>many evolutions. What did you learn about sober curiosity from

0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:13.280
<v Speaker 2>that person?

0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right. I spoke to podcaster and wellness advocate

0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.120
<v Speaker 3>Dominique Alissa, who quit drinking in October twenty twenty four

0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.440
<v Speaker 3>after she had one year of a sober curious period.

0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, So she was sober curious then completely quit.

0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, and she marked one year of sobriety in

0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.520
<v Speaker 3>October last year. So here's some of what she had

0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.160
<v Speaker 3>to say about her journey with sobriety.

0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.080
<v Speaker 1>It started off as a healthy relationship with alcohol where

0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.560
<v Speaker 1>it was fun and going out to then every weekend

0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.080
<v Speaker 1>having to drink, and then relying on it to fall

0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.640
<v Speaker 1>asleep at night because I couldn't shut down my thoughts.

0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.760
<v Speaker 3>Dom said the beginning of her sober journey was difficult,

0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.000
<v Speaker 3>but now she's really driven by the message of choice.

0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.480
<v Speaker 4>It's just a way of life, and I feel so

0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.960
<v Speaker 4>fulfilled and I feel so passionate about sharing this message

0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.360
<v Speaker 4>to young people that if you feel that you drink

0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.960
<v Speaker 4>just because you have to, maybe consider going sober.

0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I know. One of the things that can make it

0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.280
<v Speaker 2>hard for people who are sober curious, and we've touched

0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.160
<v Speaker 2>on this a little bit, is the social aspect of drinking.

0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, you hear people say, oh, I'm worried that

0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.840
<v Speaker 2>if I quit alcohol or I drink less, my friends

0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.640
<v Speaker 2>will grill me or ask questions that I don't want

0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.920
<v Speaker 2>to talk about, or they won't include me in activities,

0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:30.040
<v Speaker 2>that sort of fomo that comes with anything associated with socialization.

0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Does Dom have any advice specifically linked to that kind

0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:34.800
<v Speaker 2>of concern?

0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.280
<v Speaker 3>Yes, And a very interesting story. Actually, she got married

0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.880
<v Speaker 3>last year in Italy and instead of having a champagne

0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.400
<v Speaker 3>to greet her guests at the cocktail hour, she actually

0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.160
<v Speaker 3>had marchart, which is her favorite alcohol free alternative.

0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:49.360
<v Speaker 2>There you go yes.

0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.040
<v Speaker 3>So rather than toasting with champagne with her loved ones,

0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.480
<v Speaker 3>they brought out the marcher and they were able to

0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.959
<v Speaker 3>have an alcohol free moment together.

0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.120
<v Speaker 1>What I realized in my sobriety is that I love

0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.600
<v Speaker 1>the motion of having a drink and cheersing it, but

0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.720
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't need to be alcohol. If you have a

0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.720
<v Speaker 1>glass that looks like an alcoholic drink, no one will

0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.200
<v Speaker 1>even question you, So if you don't want to even

0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.200
<v Speaker 1>talk about it, don't worry.

0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.560
<v Speaker 3>So if someone around you is trying to drink less

0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.600
<v Speaker 3>this year advocates, so you should really cheer them on

0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:22.920
<v Speaker 3>for it. If they're having a drink with you, make

0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.600
<v Speaker 3>it a non alcoholic one, or pack something alcohol free

0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.079
<v Speaker 3>for them so you can still have that moment together.

0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.600
<v Speaker 3>You can still spend time in the summer months in

0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.880
<v Speaker 3>the sunshine, yet not around alcohol.

0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. I think a big one here too, is we

0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.760
<v Speaker 2>often take other people's actions really personally, and I don't

0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.680
<v Speaker 2>know why. In the Australian drinking culture, of someone's drinking

0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.400
<v Speaker 2>less or not drinking, sometimes we feel like maybe that's

0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.760
<v Speaker 2>an attack or a comment on our own consumption habits.

0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.120
<v Speaker 2>And I think the learning here from all the experts

0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.640
<v Speaker 2>you've spoken to is this is a really personal decision

0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.480
<v Speaker 2>that some people make. It may not be for everyone,

0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.439
<v Speaker 2>but you know, choice can't be a bad thing of course.

0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh interesting, some great advice there, and a lot to

0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.160
<v Speaker 2>think about this new year. Emily, thank you for joining

0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:09.240
<v Speaker 2>us to unpack sober curiosity and what an amazing pod.

0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.319
<v Speaker 2>De Foo, thank you, thank you, And if today's episode

0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.520
<v Speaker 2>has raised any issues for you, support is available via

0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.559
<v Speaker 2>the National Alcohol and Other Drug Hotline on one eight

0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.240
<v Speaker 2>hundred two five zero zero one five, or you can

0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.520
<v Speaker 2>call Lifeline anytime. On thirteen eleven fourteen. We will be

0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.400
<v Speaker 2>back later today with the evening news headlines, but until then,

0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:31.640
<v Speaker 2>have a great day.

0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.400
<v Speaker 3>My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Aarunda

0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.200
<v Speaker 3>Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadigol Country.

0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.200
<v Speaker 1>The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.720
<v Speaker 1>the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.079
<v Speaker 1>all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.040
<v Speaker 1>our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:55.000
<v Speaker 1>past and present.