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Speaker 1: Already, and this is the daily This is the daily os.

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Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to

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Speaker 2: the Daily Ours. It's Friday, the ninth of January. I'm

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Speaker 2: Emma Gillespie.

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Speaker 3: I'm Emily Donahue.

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Speaker 2: The new year is often a time for reflections, goal setting,

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Speaker 2: and resolutions, but January can also follow for some of us,

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Speaker 2: a period of heavy or frequent drinking as part of

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Speaker 2: the festive season. But the hangover from that festive season

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Speaker 2: is actually seeing an increasing number of young people reducing

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Speaker 2: or re evaluating their relationship with alcohol. This is what's

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Speaker 2: known as the sober curiosity movement. I'm sure you've heard

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Speaker 2: all about it, and it is a booming industry. So

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Speaker 2: today we're exploring this movement with TDA journalist Emily m.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the pod pod debut.

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Speaker 3: Hello, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being here. You've been going deep on

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Speaker 2: sober curiosity, and I feel like it is a movement

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Speaker 2: that we're hearing a lot more about, but still a

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Speaker 2: relatively new one. So I guess, and what is it?

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Speaker 2: Where do we start? How do I become someone who

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Speaker 2: is sober curious?

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Speaker 3: So the term came from a twenty eighteen book by

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Speaker 3: an author called Ruby Warrington, and that book is called

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Speaker 3: Sober Curious, okay, And someone who is sober curious is

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Speaker 3: not fully sober, but they're making more conscious decisions around

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Speaker 3: their alcohol consumption. So this could look like joining in

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Speaker 3: drag January, which is a relevant one right now for us,

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Speaker 3: or doing feb Fast, or simply just not having an

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Speaker 3: alcoholic drink at an event that we would typically associate

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Speaker 3: with drinking, like a wedding or a party, okay, or

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Speaker 3: a Christmas event.

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Speaker 2: So sober curious doesn't necessarily mean someone is ditching alcohol altogether.

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Speaker 2: They're just, I guess, becoming more mindful about when they

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Speaker 2: consume it.

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Speaker 3: Is that right, yes, one hundred percent. And some sober

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Speaker 3: curious people like Dom I'll tell you a little bit

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Speaker 3: about later, start off sober curious and then they I've

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Speaker 3: write in after feeling better when they're alcohol free. And

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Speaker 3: it's certainly an effective way to reduce the beloved anxiety.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anxiety in January is a special kind of anxiety, okay.

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Speaker 2: So sober curiosity can look like just changing a few

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Speaker 2: of your habits, reducing how much you drink, but it

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Speaker 2: can act as this kind of gateway, I suppose to

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Speaker 2: cutting out alcohol all together. How common is sober curiosity

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Speaker 2: here in Australia.

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Speaker 3: So a twenty twenty five study by the Foundation for

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Speaker 3: Alcohol Research and Education found that forty four percent of

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Speaker 3: Australians who do drink want to consume less or stop

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Speaker 3: drinking altogether, which is more than the twenty twenty study

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Speaker 3: which was twenty nine percent of respondents.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so around one in three Aussies was sober curious

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five years later that increased to nearly half.

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Speaker 2: What about young people specifically.

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Speaker 3: So, according to the latest National Drug and Alcohol Survey data,

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Speaker 3: the number of eighteen to twenty four year olds who

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Speaker 3: are abstaining from alcohol increased from thirteen percent in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and seven to twenty three percent, so almost a

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Speaker 3: quarter in twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And that's the latest available data we have from

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Speaker 2: that survey. So I guess we can assume that that

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Speaker 2: number has increased even further in the last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: I'm interested to understand sober curiosity on a global scale,

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Speaker 2: I guess m because we've got that data from Australia.

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Speaker 2: We know Australians are thinking at least about drinking less,

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Speaker 2: but what about elsewhere in the world.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so we are in a social media world where

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Speaker 3: trends can transcend countries and nations, and the trend is

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Speaker 3: definitely not limited to Australia. A US based survey in

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Speaker 3: December twenty twenty four found that sixty five percent of

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Speaker 3: gen Z respondents and fifty seven percent of millennial respondents

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Speaker 3: were trying to drink less in the twenty twenty five

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Speaker 3: New Year.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a lot of young people both generations straddled

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Speaker 2: by that data there. I guess the big question m

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Speaker 2: is why, what is the reason that people take an

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Speaker 2: interest in sober curiosity?

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Speaker 3: Sure, so if we look at those surveys and that pole,

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Speaker 3: it found in the US that around forty percent of

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Speaker 3: the gen Z respondents so that they are drinking less

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Speaker 3: to improve their mental health, and half of sober GenZ

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Speaker 3: participants that they simply just don't want to drink alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Back home, the Fair study Yeah, which was an age

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Speaker 3: specific found that people didn't want to drink for a

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Speaker 3: variety of reasons, mostly for their physical health, but also

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Speaker 3: for their mental health and to improve their sleep.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's so interesting that the divide is almost even

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Speaker 2: amongst young people. According to that US survey, we've got

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Speaker 2: nearly half saying they want to drink less for mental

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Speaker 2: health benefits, nearly half saying that they just don't want

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Speaker 2: to drink alcohol. Fascinating kind of generational comparison there. I'm

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Speaker 2: also interested in the kind of marketing side of sober curiosity.

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Speaker 2: I guess we've seen a real shift in the last

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Speaker 2: few years in how beverage companies have approached their marketing.

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Speaker 2: How has this all manifested in the alcohol free drinks market?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure you've seen more alcohol free options at

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Speaker 3: a bottle shop or at a bar, at a restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I spoke with the Alcohol Beverages Australia executive director Alistair Coo,

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Speaker 3: and he said that alcoholic drink producers are changing and

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Speaker 3: innovating in response to more consumers being quote deliberate about

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Speaker 3: what they drink.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've certainly noticed more options. You know, cocktail menus

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Speaker 2: will often have a corresponding mocktail menu or entire you know,

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Speaker 2: pages and pages of alcohol free options. Now, one market

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Speaker 2: that seems to have grown a lot is the alcohol

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Speaker 2: free beer market especially right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, for sure. So am Z estimated that the zero

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Speaker 3: alcohol beer market is going to grow from one hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty million leaders produced in twenty twenty four to

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Speaker 3: three hundred million leaders produced in twenty twenty eight. So

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Speaker 3: that's double in four years.

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Speaker 2: Wow. A lot of people drinking a lot of alcohol

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Speaker 2: free beer.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, And one of those brands is Heaps Normal, which

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Speaker 3: was launched in twenty twenty by Andy Miller, Ben Holdstock

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Speaker 3: and Jordie Smith. And he told me that since founding

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Speaker 3: Heaps Normal, he noticed that the drinking culture has and

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Speaker 3: I quote shifted from it being weird not to drink

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Speaker 3: to it being weird to ask somebody why they're not drinking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that social conversation has been a really interesting shift

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And rather than opting for soft drinks, water

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Speaker 3: or coffee, sober curious people are sometimes drawn to more

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Speaker 3: sophisticated beverages, maybe those that replicate what they had when

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Speaker 3: they were drinking, and the market shows that absolutely. On

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Speaker 3: the other hand, though, alcohol free products that taste like

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Speaker 3: their alcoholic counterparts can sometimes be the wrong drink for

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Speaker 3: those on their sober journey and Sober in the Country

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Speaker 3: founder Shanna Ian has urged those who are in a

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Speaker 3: fragile recovery period from alcohol to please be really cautious

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Speaker 3: around drinks that imitate alcohol. She said, for some they're safe,

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Speaker 3: but for others they're linked to relapse.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that is really interesting because I suppose this market

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Speaker 2: boom has seen a lot of alcohol free or love

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Speaker 2: alcohol products emerge that taste just like the quote unquote

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Speaker 2: real things. So fascinating perspective there, Emily, you actually spoke

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Speaker 2: to someone who has lived this journey and gone through

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Speaker 2: many evolutions. What did you learn about sober curiosity from

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Speaker 2: that person?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. I spoke to podcaster and wellness advocate

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Speaker 3: Dominique Alissa, who quit drinking in October twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: after she had one year of a sober curious period.

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Speaker 2: Right, So she was sober curious then completely quit.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and she marked one year of sobriety in

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Speaker 3: October last year. So here's some of what she had

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Speaker 3: to say about her journey with sobriety.

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Speaker 1: It started off as a healthy relationship with alcohol where

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Speaker 1: it was fun and going out to then every weekend

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Speaker 1: having to drink, and then relying on it to fall

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Speaker 1: asleep at night because I couldn't shut down my thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Dom said the beginning of her sober journey was difficult,

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Speaker 3: but now she's really driven by the message of choice.

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Speaker 4: It's just a way of life, and I feel so

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Speaker 4: fulfilled and I feel so passionate about sharing this message

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Speaker 4: to young people that if you feel that you drink

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Speaker 4: just because you have to, maybe consider going sober.

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Speaker 2: I know. One of the things that can make it

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Speaker 2: hard for people who are sober curious, and we've touched

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Speaker 2: on this a little bit, is the social aspect of drinking.

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Speaker 2: You know, you hear people say, oh, I'm worried that

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Speaker 2: if I quit alcohol or I drink less, my friends

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Speaker 2: will grill me or ask questions that I don't want

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Speaker 2: to talk about, or they won't include me in activities,

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Speaker 2: that sort of fomo that comes with anything associated with socialization.

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Speaker 2: Does Dom have any advice specifically linked to that kind

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Speaker 2: of concern?

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Speaker 3: Yes, And a very interesting story. Actually, she got married

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Speaker 3: last year in Italy and instead of having a champagne

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Speaker 3: to greet her guests at the cocktail hour, she actually

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Speaker 3: had marchart, which is her favorite alcohol free alternative.

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Speaker 2: There you go yes.

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Speaker 3: So rather than toasting with champagne with her loved ones,

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Speaker 3: they brought out the marcher and they were able to

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Speaker 3: have an alcohol free moment together.

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Speaker 1: What I realized in my sobriety is that I love

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Speaker 1: the motion of having a drink and cheersing it, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be alcohol. If you have a

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Speaker 1: glass that looks like an alcoholic drink, no one will

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Speaker 1: even question you, So if you don't want to even

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Speaker 1: talk about it, don't worry.

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Speaker 3: So if someone around you is trying to drink less

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Speaker 3: this year advocates, so you should really cheer them on

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Speaker 3: for it. If they're having a drink with you, make

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Speaker 3: it a non alcoholic one, or pack something alcohol free

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Speaker 3: for them so you can still have that moment together.

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Speaker 3: You can still spend time in the summer months in

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Speaker 3: the sunshine, yet not around alcohol.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. I think a big one here too, is we

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Speaker 2: often take other people's actions really personally, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know why. In the Australian drinking culture, of someone's drinking

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Speaker 2: less or not drinking, sometimes we feel like maybe that's

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Speaker 2: an attack or a comment on our own consumption habits.

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Speaker 2: And I think the learning here from all the experts

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Speaker 2: you've spoken to is this is a really personal decision

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Speaker 2: that some people make. It may not be for everyone,

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Speaker 2: but you know, choice can't be a bad thing of course.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting, some great advice there, and a lot to

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Speaker 2: think about this new year. Emily, thank you for joining

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Speaker 2: us to unpack sober curiosity and what an amazing pod.

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Speaker 2: De Foo, thank you, thank you, And if today's episode

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Speaker 2: has raised any issues for you, support is available via

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Speaker 2: the National Alcohol and Other Drug Hotline on one eight

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Speaker 2: hundred two five zero zero one five, or you can

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Speaker 2: call Lifeline anytime. On thirteen eleven fourteen. We will be

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Speaker 2: back later today with the evening news headlines, but until then,

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Speaker 2: have a great day.

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Speaker 3: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Aarunda

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Speaker 3: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadigol Country.

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Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

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Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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Speaker 1: past and present.