1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: or the Order, Kernie Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: Let's get into it. 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money. 12 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 4: for millennials who want financial freedom. Most of us carry 14 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 4: some sort of trauma with us. It could be from 15 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 4: our childhood, maybe a past relationship, or really any significant 16 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 4: experience that has caused us ongoing pain. The word trauma 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 4: is often used to describe very painful and extreme situations 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 4: that mark our universal human struggle, and this is no 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 4: different when it comes to money. On today's episode of 20 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 4: She's on the Money, we are talking about a lesser known, 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 4: but very prevalent trauma and it is, of course financial trauma. 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 4: My name is Georgia King, and joining me as always 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 4: is Victoria define V. 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 3: How High. 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 5: Hello, Georgia King. I am not excited, but I'm looking 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 5: forward to this because I feel like financial trauma has 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 5: for a very long time not been recognized as as 28 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 5: legitimate as other types of trauma, when it absolutely is. 29 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 5: So I really am looking forward to sharing this and 30 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 5: I hope that don't hope that people relate to it. 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 5: I hope that it validates some people's experiences so that 32 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 5: they know that they're not alone on this one. 33 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 4: It's not something we've spoken about on the podcast before. 34 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 4: It's not really a term I've heard of at all, 35 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 4: to be honest, So I am super excited to dive 36 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 4: into it and hear what it is all about. You've 37 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 4: got some. 38 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 2: Stats, I doo. 39 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 5: I've taken your job as stats gal. Obviously really looking 40 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 5: forward to diving deep on this one. Financial trauma is 41 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 5: obviously very common, sadly, and makes total sense as money 42 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 5: is very easily linked to our sense of security, our safety, 43 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 5: our status, and our power. And a survey that was 44 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 5: conducted by Payoff in twenty nineteen found that one in 45 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 5: three millennials suffer from acute financial stress also known as AFS, 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 5: and the point of this episode is to shine a 47 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 5: light and validate people who. 48 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: Are experiencing this. 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 5: Fortunately, we are living in a time where conversations around 50 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 5: mental health are thankfully becoming increasingly more open and common, 51 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 5: and we are understand danning how better to deal with 52 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 5: and identify these painful experiences with less stigma win. Financial 53 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 5: trauma is one we hear about all the time in 54 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 5: our community. Not so much coinned by that term, but 55 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 5: the experiences that a lot of our community have had 56 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 5: or shared with us. I would absolutely categorize as fitting 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 5: into the financial trauma space, and it's often one that 58 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 5: manifests in our actions and attitudes towards money. It often 59 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 5: goes unnoticed or is passed off as logical or reasonable behavior, 60 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 5: which is absolutely not the case. 61 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 4: All right, V, I'm going to throw two really common 62 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 4: terms out there for us to chew over. First is 63 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 4: retail therapy and the second is tight US. Oh yeah, 64 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 4: And I bring these up because they come up all 65 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 4: the time. We flippantly use them all the time. 66 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 2: She's a tight US. 67 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 5: I mean you probably when people are talking about George, 68 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 5: But does. 69 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 4: That tie in to financial trauma and anyway. 70 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 5: Ah, look, yes and no, maybe retail therapy is your thing. 71 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 5: And when you're feeling down, you can't control the urge 72 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 5: to splurge. 73 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: See what I did? 74 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: There? 75 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 5: Need that dopamine hit, I get it. I'm going to 76 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 5: do a whole episode really soon g on emotional spending 77 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 5: because I feel like that's a topic that we need 78 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 5: to discuss as well, because things like quote shopping addictions 79 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 5: ha ha ha actually are really serious and they actually 80 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 5: do impact people's mental health, and they actually do have 81 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 5: an emotional connection that we need to delve deeper into 82 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 5: because they're not funny and they're not things that we 83 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 5: should flippantly laugh about and be the reason why we're 84 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 5: bad at money, Like it's not okay. And then when 85 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 5: we look at the term tighters, maybe you are tight 86 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 5: with money to the point where it takes up all 87 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 5: your energy and all your brain space and you can't 88 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 5: part with money without intense anxiety. That's a completely different 89 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 5: thing than the way I flippantly throw it at you. 90 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: George. 91 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 5: I call you that because you're just a really good 92 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 5: saver and good at managing your own values and beliefs 93 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 5: around money, and it's kind of funny in that contraxt 94 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 5: So I think it's interesting to see both sides of 95 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 5: that because I know you deeply enough to know that 96 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 5: that's not an issue. Whereas if you threw that term 97 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 5: around someone who genuinely was suffering pretty severe money anxiety, 98 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 5: that just might perpetuate it. And we need to be 99 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 5: really careful, George, because as much as some people use 100 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 5: it really flippantly, these terms can impact you if you 101 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 5: are experiencing really significant financial stress or financial trauma, and 102 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 5: you never know. 103 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 4: Okay, speaking of financial stress versus financial trauma, are they 104 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 4: two different things? 105 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: They are very very different things. 106 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 5: Stress can be used to motivate us, like put a 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 5: little bit of pressure on me to organize podcast recording 108 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 5: because it's tomorrow. 109 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: I'm going to do it. Stress drives me, guys, That's fine, 110 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: I've seen it that many times. That's manageable stress. 111 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 5: However, sometimes that extends beyond being a motivator and becomes 112 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 5: very detrimental to someone's life. Whereas trauma can shut down 113 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 5: our ability to take helpful action in time highly and 114 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 5: it usually. 115 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: Stems from a traumatic experience. 116 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 5: Financial stress might be like, oh, just get a bit 117 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 5: stressed when I organize my budget. You doing budgeting if 118 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 5: you have significant trauma in your history is a different 119 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 5: topic completely. G So financial stress is something everybody experiences. 120 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: We all have it. 121 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 5: Life is expensive and how wages often don't match the 122 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 5: things that we want. This can cause emotional and physical 123 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 5: distress and can be ongoing through life at various different 124 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 5: stages and different levels. 125 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: And then financial trauma. 126 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 5: Is characterized as a dysfunctional reaction to chronic financial stress. 127 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 5: The indicators of financial trauma often really similar to those 128 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 5: experienced by people with post traumatic stress disorder, which I 129 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 5: find not surprising, but some of you might be like, Wow, 130 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 5: I didn't realize. 131 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: It was so extreme. Yeah, and it is. 132 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 5: They manifest in several different areas of a person's life. 133 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 5: They often prevent them from ever feeling successful, safe, or 134 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 5: it ease when money is concerned. It doesn't take a 135 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 5: long period of stress around money to ingrain financial trauma, 136 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 5: and it's easily passed down from generation to generation as 137 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 5: unconscious belief systems. 138 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 4: So does this have a lot to do with our 139 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 4: money stories and where we kind of come from. 140 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, so part of your money story could be financial trauma. 141 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 5: If you think about it, it makes sense like, if 142 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 5: you've got financial trauma in your money story, that's something 143 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 5: you need to work through and really recognize, because trauma 144 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 5: is going to, in any sense of the word, impact 145 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 5: your life if you don't address it. 146 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 4: Actually. On that v my next point was that epigenetics, 147 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 4: so that's the study of your behaviors and the environment 148 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: and how that can cause changes and affect the way 149 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 4: your genes work. That actually tells us that trauma can 150 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 4: be passed down generationally. So should we be looking at 151 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 4: financial trauma in the same way. 152 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, I mean it's not ingrained in your genes 153 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 5: in the same way that epigenetics is. However, your parents' thoughts, values, 154 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 5: beliefs around money are what you grew up with. Your parents, 155 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 5: your caretaker, whoever brought you up, or whoever you were 156 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 5: exposed to as a child, is going to have some 157 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 5: level of impact on you. If you grew up in 158 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 5: a really wealthy household and money was never an issue, 159 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 5: maybe you don't get that pit in the bottom of 160 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 5: your stomach when money comes up. But if you grew 161 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 5: up in a household where money was scarce and mum 162 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 5: and dad argued all the time, over what they could 163 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 5: and couldn't afford and put some guilt on you, George 164 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 5: when you said you wanted to do dance lessons but 165 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 5: they couldn't afford it. Maybe now, as an adult, when 166 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 5: you want to do anything for yourself, you harbor a 167 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 5: lot of guilt and a lot of anxiety when it 168 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 5: comes to making decisions for yourself or treating yourself, because 169 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 5: every time you've ever tried to treat yourself, it's been 170 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 5: met with negativity. Whereas a completely flip example of this is, 171 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 5: you know, maybe mum and Dad had really tight budgets 172 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 5: and didn't have enough money, but they were really positive 173 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 5: about it, and they really taught you. All right, g 174 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 5: which don't have lots of money, but it's a tool, 175 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 5: and we use this tool to create the life we want. 176 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 5: And you go, I really want to go to dance lessons. 177 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 5: They go, all right, Gee, unfortunately we can't do that 178 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 5: right now. 179 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: Have a look at the budget. You understand it. 180 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 5: As a child, you don't harbor the same amount of 181 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 5: trauma because of the way it's been dealt with, so 182 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 5: absolutely it can be passed down. 183 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 2: Gee. Was their bankruptcy growing up? 184 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 5: Was their shame around unemployment, was their detachment or complete 185 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 5: refusal to discuss money as a family. Maybe you had 186 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 5: an urge to jump in and pay for other people 187 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 5: when it wasn't expected and you just can't afford it. 188 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 5: That could actually be part of your trauma story. It's 189 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 5: bigger than what you might think it is. 190 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 4: Okay, Obviously, emotions are really closely tied to our financial choices. 191 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 4: We talk about all the time. So if we try 192 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 4: and take our emotion out of it, just crunching the 193 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 4: numbers and coming up with a strict budget that makes 194 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 4: sense and gives us that clarity, is that going to 195 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 4: help us solve the problem? 196 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: Or Okay, sorry, sorry, you can't do that might be there. 197 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 5: I mean, if you would like to do a budget, 198 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 5: there is a free budget on my website. You can 199 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 5: go and download. Absolutely no catch, go organize your finances. 200 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: I actually really want you to. 201 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 5: However, when it comes to financial trauma and dealing with it, 202 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 5: just budgeting is not enough. 203 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: We need a holistic approach. 204 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 5: And I know you know that I love a budget 205 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 5: and number crunching, but we really need to be paying 206 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 5: attention to these feelings and considering why they actually exist 207 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 5: in the first place. You won't be free even with 208 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 5: a budget and different formulas if you're carrying unconscious trauma, 209 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 5: because at the end of the day, it's going to 210 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 5: work against your best interests. I could sit you down 211 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 5: with a budget, g doesn't change anything unless we know 212 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 5: our money story, So. 213 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 4: Probably a counselor. But we will be talking about ways 214 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 4: that we can work through our financial trauma on the 215 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 4: other side of the break, and we'll be talking about 216 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 4: plenty more. So don't go anywhay, guds. 217 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: V. 218 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 4: Let's dive straight back in. Can you please provide some 219 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: really clear signs of financial trauma? 220 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: All right? 221 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 5: So the first sign of financial trauma, i'd say is 222 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 5: financial avoidance. Yep. So this could look like not opening bills, 223 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 5: not interacting with bookkeeping as a business owner, or avoiding 224 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 5: any and all types of conversations around finance. This year 225 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 5: is linked inherently as humans to our fight, flight, freeze 226 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 5: or faun response, and at its most intense level, its dissociation. 227 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 5: So from my perspective, G, this response makes a lot 228 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 5: of sense for someone whose relationship to money is paired 229 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 5: with intense feelings if fear or pain or insecurity, and 230 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 5: they can come from any experience. So there's no categorization 231 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 5: of what the trauma has to be to mean that 232 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 5: you experience it same as other types of trauma. Like 233 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 5: one thing to one person might have a completely separate 234 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 5: outcome as another. There's no that was trauma or this wasn't. 235 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 5: These are the feelings And if that's how you're feeling 236 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 5: about an outcome or a circumstance or an experience in 237 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 5: your life, then you are carrying trauma regardless of what 238 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 5: it is. I really hate when people compare it and say, oh, 239 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 5: but someone else has it worse, Like that is not 240 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 5: how this community works. 241 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,239 Speaker 2: Like everybody's concerned. 242 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 5: Everybody's experiences are valid and you are more than welcome 243 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 5: to feel your feelings. Even if someone over the other 244 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 5: side of the world or even across the other side 245 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 5: of the room has had to arguably quote worse experience. 246 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: That doesn't invalidate the feelings that you have. 247 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, one of the things we talk about a lot 248 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 4: in the community is compulsive spending and over spending. Could 249 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 4: they also be signs of financial trauma? 250 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: Of course they could be. 251 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 5: So this could look like anything from spending too much 252 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 5: money on eating out or splurging on major purchases with 253 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 5: money that you don't have, which I think can be 254 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 5: really common. I used to do it. I was carrying 255 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 5: a level of financial trauma. I got through it because 256 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 5: I worked through my money story and have decided to 257 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 5: repivot that and change. If you're someone who is struggling 258 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 5: with that, it's really important to do some internal reflection. 259 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 5: And I know it can be really hard asking yourself 260 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 5: why you might be doing that spending because you're trying 261 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 5: to sue the pain that you haven't recognized, or maybe 262 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 5: you're a little bit like me in that you chase 263 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 5: a dopamine hit. So, as you guys know, I've spoken 264 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 5: about it on the podcast before, I have ADHD. I 265 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 5: chase dopamine hits, love spending money. That's why I have 266 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 5: to be so clear about my budget and cash flow 267 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 5: and be on top of that because otherwise it will 268 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 5: get out of control. So obviously I love a dopamine hit. George, 269 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 5: which aghd person do you know that doesn't love a 270 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 5: dopamine hit? But basically the response of overspending can stem 271 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,599 Speaker 5: from the common narratives around money in dominant cultures. 272 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 2: For example, if you. 273 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 5: Ever feel bored or sad or lonely or inadequate, something's 274 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 5: wrong with you, or you need to fix it right away, 275 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 5: and you can do that by buying something or consuming 276 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 5: something like that seems to be a pretty common response, right, 277 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 5: not feeling good about myself? Do you know how I'll 278 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 5: make myself feel good. I'm going to go buy a 279 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 5: nice new outfit that'll make me look good, and then 280 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 5: I'll feel good. That is the ment behind a lot 281 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 5: of overspending. In many ways, overspending can actually be a 282 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 5: form of financial avoidance, even though you're spending, because consumption 283 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 5: is a really temporary way to deal with pain while 284 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 5: avoiding the reality of your bigger financial picture. 285 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 4: How do you know if it's financial trauma or if 286 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 4: you're just being financially careless? 287 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 5: Though, I think the difference is around how we went 288 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 5: back to the stress, the anxiety, the dissociation, the feeling 289 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 5: of not wanting to address those things. I think you'd 290 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 5: pretty clearly be able to say after listening to some 291 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 5: of this podcast, Oh, yeah, I'm just not across my 292 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 5: budget and I just I don't care to. Yeah, I'm 293 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 5: actually burying my head in this hand. And when I 294 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 5: go shopping. That's one of my coping mechanisms. I think 295 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 5: there's a very different feeling to those things, and you 296 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 5: might not be able to directly identify it. And if 297 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 5: that's you, I think we need to sit down and 298 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 5: have a little bit of a think about why do 299 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 5: I do the things that I do? Where is this 300 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 5: coming from? Why am I over You know, there's lots 301 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 5: of reasons why people overspend. I mentioned ADHD before. Neurodivergent 302 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 5: people are very good at overspending. It's got nothing to 303 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 5: do with financial trauma and everything to do with the 304 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 5: most neurodivergent people are actually chasing more dopamine hits than. 305 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 2: The average bear. 306 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 5: So there are lots of different reasons as to why 307 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 5: you could overspend. But I think we need to look 308 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 5: back at what I said in the first half of 309 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 5: the episode that financial trauma is characterized as a dysfunctional 310 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 5: reaction to chronic financial stress. We're not just a little 311 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 5: bit stressed, it's chronic. It's really really bad. 312 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 4: So with that said, VI, I feel like what I'm 313 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 4: garnering is that a lot of this stuff is compulsive. 314 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 4: It's not just I love shopping on the weekend. It's 315 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 4: a real drive that you can't fight am I right? 316 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: Is that? Yeah? 317 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like when we talk about overspending, there's just a 318 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 5: lot to it. Obviously, it could be symp trauma. It's 319 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 5: just one of the indicators. However, when we talk about 320 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 5: compulsive spending, compulsive spence could be likened to an addiction, 321 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 5: like someone compulsively uses drugs or compulsively goes to the pokies. 322 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,359 Speaker 5: It's not something that they feel like they can control. 323 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 5: It's not just like ha ha ha, I just bought 324 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 5: a new dress. I can't control myself. Like, no, that's 325 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 5: not it. And we actually really need to be quite 326 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 5: serious about these topics because as much as it's you know, 327 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 5: a little bit of fun to buy address that cheeky 328 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 5: shouldn't have bought on a Friday night to go out 329 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 5: with the girls, that's not compulsive spending. 330 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay. 331 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 4: On the flip side of compulsive spending, V is compulsive 332 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 4: under spending a thing? 333 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, it is a thing. 334 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 5: I mean it's probably not a coined term, but we 335 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 5: are going to coin it right here now. But a 336 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 5: severe lack of spending, even when the money is available, 337 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 5: can also be a really big indicator of financial trauma, 338 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 5: excessive risk, aversion is connected with fear and scarcity around money, 339 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 5: and that could actually stem from someone having experiences in 340 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 5: life where money was really tight and that now causes 341 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 5: fear intrepidation around space, and that can be crippling because 342 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 5: you might be putting off spending you have to make. 343 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 5: So I know of circumstances where people literally put off 344 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 5: spending money on their rent because they just feel such 345 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 5: an anxiety of having that money go out of their bank, 346 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 5: even though they've got more than sufficient funds. They refuse 347 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 5: to go to the supermarket and buy a healthy diet 348 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 5: because they're so anxious. 349 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 2: About spending money. 350 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 5: Like we're not talking here about hahaha, I don't spend money, 351 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 5: and I am a little bit anxious sometimes because I'm 352 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 5: trying to say for a house. 353 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: We're talking this is crippling. 354 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 5: And I think that those are the terms that we 355 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 5: need to keep in mind and not just flippantly go, oh, well, 356 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 5: I have some financial trauma and use that as a 357 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 5: brace to justify your spending habits. 358 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 359 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 4: I think that's one of the things worth pointing out, 360 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 4: is that trauma can be a word that's really overused 361 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty two. So I think clarifying that this 362 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 4: is a real yeah quotation marks thing that people are 363 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 4: dealing with is important because I think think a lot 364 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 4: of people might look at this episode and be like, 365 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 4: financial trauma, heard it all. 366 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 2: But this is really legitimate. 367 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 5: No, I agree, and I would summarize this here. I 368 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 5: know you've got some more questions, but if you have 369 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 5: financial trauma, I genuinely believe you need some level of therapy, 370 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 5: Like you need to go and work through those things. 371 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 5: And often the same with all other trauma. Often it's 372 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 5: not something you can work through on your own because 373 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 5: it's not just a little bit stressed and I can 374 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 5: grab a stressful and work it out, like that's something 375 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 5: that actually requires some deep work and that's hard. And 376 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 5: you know, plugging right here our debt free hotline friends, 377 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 5: they are the perfect resource because they're. 378 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: Free financial counseling. 379 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 5: You don't have to be up to your eyeballs in 380 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 5: debt to reach out to a financial counselor. It could 381 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 5: just be stress and anxiety and not feeling like you 382 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 5: can get on top of your money, or you're really 383 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 5: not sure what you want to say to a financial counselor. 384 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 5: But you just listen to this episode and it's resonating. 385 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 5: Maybe start the conversation there. 386 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 4: We will get to some more solution if you are 387 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 4: someone who's struggling, So hang around to the end of 388 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 4: the show for that, and we will, of course links course. 389 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: But how important would you say healthy boundaries around money 390 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 4: are when it comes to this stuff. 391 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 5: Very regardless of whether you have financial trauma or not. 392 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 5: I think that there always should be healthy boundaries around money. 393 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 5: In fact, we're talking offline about our future show episodes, 394 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 5: and I said, let's do a financial red flags when dating, 395 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 5: because I genuinely think from the very start of any 396 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 5: relationship we need to have healthy boundaries and we need 397 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 5: to be able to identify what that actually looks like 398 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 5: and what a red flag looks like if it comes up. So, 399 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 5: from my perspective, having a lack of boundaries or a 400 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 5: discomfort with setting boundaries around finances really looks like undercharging 401 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 5: if you're a business owner I'm talking directly to you, 402 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 5: or under earning and not being willing to negotiate your 403 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 5: own salary, not negotiating for rages is yourself is actually 404 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 5: an indicator that you're not playing seeing from my perspective, 405 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 5: enough value on yourself. Not making clear payment terms on 406 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 5: contracts is another indicator. People will go into business without 407 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 5: clear contracts around the working relationship that they have. And 408 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 5: while it can be uncomfortable for anyone to navigate money conversations, 409 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 5: let's be honest. A repeated lack of boundaries around finance 410 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 5: can be an indicator. But there might be some trauma 411 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 5: that's present that is stopping you from standing in your 412 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 5: power and advocating for what you need in that relationship. 413 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 5: And this could stem from learned mindsets that put a 414 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 5: cap on your perceived worth and prevent you from believing 415 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 5: that you actually deserve more. So all of that, to 416 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 5: me is really important. But healthy boundaries around money are 417 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 5: always a priority in this house. 418 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 4: All right, let's finish off today's show V by talking 419 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 4: through what we can do if we are struggling with 420 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 4: the repercussions of financial trauma. Where do we start? 421 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 5: So, just like any other form of trauma, financial trauma 422 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 5: has a whole host of recons sources that you can 423 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 5: lean on to help you throw it. It needs to 424 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 5: be brought into the light and given far more time 425 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 5: and space though, So that's what we're hoping to do 426 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 5: with this podcast and it needs to be unviced and 427 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 5: challenged and soothed. So here are some things that you 428 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 5: can do I mentioned before. Get some counseling, Go see 429 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 5: a psychologist. If you're in a circumstance where you're able 430 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 5: to pay for that advice fantastic, Head to your GP 431 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 5: talk to them about a mental health care plan. 432 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: If you're in a. 433 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 5: Bit of a financially constrained circumstance, still, head to a 434 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 5: GP bul billing GP talk to them about a mental 435 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 5: health care plan and get a bulk billing psychologist. That 436 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 5: will mean that you will get a minimum of six 437 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 5: but according to and I'm pretty sure this is still 438 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 5: true up to twenty sessions because of COVID with a 439 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 5: psychologist that will literally be bulk built, and that can 440 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 5: be really helpful. When you're feeling triggered, notice what's happening 441 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 5: with your body, and use your sense is to regulate 442 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 5: your nervous system. So this is something that I do 443 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 5: might help you. But breathe, focus on your sensitive smell 444 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 5: and the space you're in, and ground yourself. Something I 445 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 5: find really helpful, especially if I'm quite stressed, is to 446 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 5: just go on YouTube and look up grounded breathing exercise, 447 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 5: and there are a whole heap of free videos that 448 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 5: you can just do and follow along. I don't expect 449 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 5: everyone to know how to ground themselves, but if you're 450 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 5: feeling a bit panicked or a bit stressed, that can 451 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 5: help a lot. Separate yourself from this narrative. So if 452 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 5: it's like I'm bad with money or I'm horrible with 453 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 5: money because I have credit cards, it's okay, it's all right. 454 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 5: I can see where you're coming from. But let's separate 455 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 5: ourselves from the narrative that our money story defines us, 456 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 5: because it doesn't. Our money story happened to us. 457 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: Great. 458 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 5: Do you know what we can't do change that? Do 459 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 5: you know what we can do change the future? We 460 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 5: can put ourselves in a better circumstance. We can rewrite 461 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 5: generational trauma, we can read write generational money habits and 462 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 5: thoughts and values and beliefs. But we actually have to 463 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 5: put in a bit of work to do that. 464 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 4: And we need to change the story we tell ourselves. Right, 465 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 4: because that happens, it's exactly so many different. 466 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: Areas of our lives. 467 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 4: You're just exactly it's a self flielling prophecy. 468 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 5: We also just need to change the language, like, oh, 469 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 5: I'm horrible with money because I have credit card debt. 470 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: No you're not. 471 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 5: Have you learned how to do money before? No, I'd 472 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 5: argue you haven't because there's no financial literacy program taught 473 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 5: in schools in Australia. Most parents have not sat their 474 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 5: kids down and taught them the basis of financial literacy. 475 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 5: It's a product of your upbringing, not of your intelligence. 476 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 5: And I think that if we can just go, well, 477 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 5: I have a credit card and I'm going to get 478 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 5: out of it because I'm smart enough to do that, fantastic. 479 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 5: Let's reframe and rewrite that narrative do things as well, 480 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 5: quite gently. But explore your own story, maybe journaling or writing, 481 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 5: or letting the subconscoes stumble out onto paper without any 482 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 5: type of regulation. You're not writing for somebody else. You're 483 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 5: writing for your self so that you can understand it. 484 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 5: You can rip the paper up later, you can hide it, 485 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 5: you can burn it, you can do whatever you want, 486 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 5: flash it down the toilet if you're worried about people 487 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 5: seeing it. But I think that that can actually be 488 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 5: quite a soothing process to get things out. 489 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: It helps to organize your thoughts. It's definitely yeah, it 490 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 2: can't be positive affirmations. I think we love important. 491 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 5: We love that, and then forgive yourself and be kind. 492 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: Like, if you can't be kind. 493 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 5: To yourself, how are other people going to know how 494 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 5: to be kind to you. I think it's just be 495 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 5: kind always, but be kind in particular to yourself. 496 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 2: So that's all I've. 497 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 4: Got, George, brilliant and as you said earlier, like not 498 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 4: comparing your trauma to anyone else's and if you are 499 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 4: feeling rubbish, own that and don't feel like you can't 500 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 4: feel that way because the way you feel is valid. 501 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 4: As you said, absolutely it is. As we flagged earlier 502 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 4: as well. We will be linking to the National Debt 503 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 4: helpline in the show notes fevers or anything you wanted 504 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 4: to add before we head off. 505 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 5: Nope, I think that is all we have time for today, 506 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 5: my friend. So if you could just wrap the boring 507 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 5: but important stuff, it would be appreciated with. 508 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 4: Pleasure, my girl. The advice shared on She's on the 509 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 4: Money is general in nature and does not consider your 510 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 4: individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for educational 511 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 4: purposes and should not be relied upon to make an 512 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 4: investment or a financial decision. Victoria Divine and She's on 513 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 4: the Money are authorized representatives of in Focused Securities Australia 514 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 4: Proprietary Limited ABN for seven zero nine seven seven nine 515 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 4: seven zero four nine afosal. 516 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: Two through six five two three. We will see it 517 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 2: on Friday. Guys by Yourself