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Speaker 1: That's joining me in the studio right now is the

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Speaker 1: Sentinel Property Group CEO, Warren Ebberts.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Warren.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, another beautiful day in Darwin.

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Speaker 1: And good to have you in the studio as well,

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Speaker 1: and meet you in person, Warren. You and I have

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Speaker 1: spoken on numerous occasions about some of the issues since

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Speaker 1: taking over a Casarina Square shopping center, some of the

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Speaker 1: issues that have been experienced when it comes to crime

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Speaker 1: and Dante social behavior. But it looks as though the

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Speaker 1: dogs being there and some of the other security measures

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Speaker 1: that that are in place have made a bit of

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Speaker 1: a difference.

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Speaker 3: Katie. That made a massive difference. In the twelve months

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Speaker 3: to December. December just gone, we've got our andy social

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Speaker 3: behavior down seventy four percent. Now there's still a lot

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Speaker 3: to do, but we've Our security bill is two point

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Speaker 3: three million dollars a year, which works out to be

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Speaker 3: forty five dollars per square meter. Now. According to the

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Speaker 3: Property Council of Australia, the average in Queensland for security

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Speaker 3: of a cent of the size of ours is seven

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Speaker 3: dollars a square meter. Wow, so ours is six times

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Speaker 3: we own another similar sized shopping center in Mackay Cainland

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Speaker 3: shopping center. And while in the wet season, we'll average

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Speaker 3: about three hundred reports a day in our center where

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Speaker 3: we have to move people on. In Cainland, they don't

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Speaker 3: know the last time they did one, So it's a

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Speaker 3: bit boring for security guards down there.

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Speaker 2: Is that right? So three hundred a.

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Speaker 3: Day a day? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Is that currently?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Wow? And then in Cainland's you're not even worrying about that.

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Speaker 3: No. As a matter of fact, when they open the

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Speaker 3: doors up there every morning, they invite the homeless in

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Speaker 3: because they come in, they give them a coffee, because

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Speaker 3: it's they really they don't have any issues down there.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: It's not to say there's no crime in Mackay, but

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Speaker 3: the Darwin is you know, we're a major investor here.

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Speaker 3: It has real problems, and I think one of the

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Speaker 3: great things is that it's being recognized nationally and we've

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Speaker 3: seen the Prime Minister fly up to Alas Springs for

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Speaker 3: half an hour or whatever it was, and they're throwing

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Speaker 3: some money at it. I don't think money will solve

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Speaker 3: the long term problems. It's a deeper issues than that.

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Speaker 3: But people recognize that there's serious issues that needs serious action.

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Speaker 3: And at Casarina Square, we want to welcome all genuine shoppers.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a family shopping center. As I've said

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Speaker 3: millions of times, it's every man, woman and child in

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Speaker 3: Darwin goes at five point one times a month. On

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Speaker 3: Boxing Day at Casarina Square, we had over thirty percent

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Speaker 3: of the entire population of Darwin in our setup.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: So it's important that people see it as a clean, safe,

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Speaker 3: enjoyable place to come for their families. Now we want

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Speaker 3: everyone to enjoy it, but we will not tolerate the troublemakers.

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Speaker 3: And while we have a lot of moves move on.

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Speaker 3: What happens now with our security people, they will stop

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Speaker 3: them at the door. Yeah, we have conditions of entry.

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Speaker 3: If you don't have shoes on your feet, you're not

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Speaker 3: allowed in. And if you're not dressed appropriately. So we

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Speaker 3: know it's a warm climate and you've got to allow

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Speaker 3: thongs and shorts and segalants. We understand that, but you

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Speaker 3: have to be clean and tidy. So our security people

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Speaker 3: just turn around at the door and allow them in

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Speaker 3: the center.

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Speaker 1: And Warren I know that the Northern Territory government said

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Speaker 1: not too long ago, towards the end of last year

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Speaker 1: that they were making changes to trespass initiatives and the

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Speaker 1: trespass notices. Has that made much of a difference at

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Speaker 1: Casuarina Square or have you seen any change at this

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Speaker 1: point in terms of being able to issue I'm assuming trespass.

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Speaker 3: Notices, Katie. I've got to embarrassedly admit that I don't

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Speaker 3: live in Darwin, so I'm not here.

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Speaker 2: I won't hold that against you.

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Speaker 3: Has only got ninety two on the most influential people,

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Speaker 3: but we'll work on moving up the ladder for next year.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not one hundred percent up with all of

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Speaker 3: the laws. But there has been sort which is an

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Speaker 3: anti social behavior thing which the government, which comes under

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Speaker 3: the police, and that has been fantastic. So yeah, there's

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Speaker 3: no silver bullet. It's all a one percent and I

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Speaker 3: know that the government are certainly trying hard and put

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Speaker 3: in measures and the police helpful. One of the things

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Speaker 3: we have to be careful of as things improve at

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Speaker 3: Cainland that they don't move the police away and say

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Speaker 3: well it's been solved to yourself.

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Speaker 1: Hey Casarina, you mean yeah, Warren, did you anticipate I

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Speaker 1: do just want to ask, when you took over the

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Speaker 1: shopping center at Casarina, did you anticipate or did you

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Speaker 1: did you realize just how difficult some of those anti

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Speaker 1: social issues we're going to be.

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Speaker 3: It's not a surprise to us. You know, we make money,

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Speaker 3: Katie by buying things where there's a problem. If there's

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Speaker 3: no problem, there's going great, then there's no discount. So

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Speaker 3: we saw that as an opportunity and it has worked

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Speaker 3: out that way. There's been a lot of little things

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Speaker 3: that we've done. You know, we've got rid of a

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Speaker 3: lot of the seating benches where people would you have

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Speaker 3: too much to drink, have a celebration and lay down,

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Speaker 3: go to sleep. So we're gradually removing benches, just putting

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Speaker 3: them in seats. You know, out the front of coals

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Speaker 3: where there's benches and people would lay down there. We've

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Speaker 3: shifted those, removed those and put in other benches that

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Speaker 3: aren't very comfortable to sit on. But you know, you

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Speaker 3: could sit there with your children or friends while you're

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Speaker 3: waiting for someone, but you're not going to go to

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Speaker 3: sleep there because with the design, you just fall off

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Speaker 3: on the floor. So it's a lot of things like

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Speaker 3: that that we're doing, so not a surprise. I suppose

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Speaker 3: it's disappointing when you hear some of the troubles that

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Speaker 3: people have, and you know, we have a gathering point

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Speaker 3: for staff there where a couple of times a night

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Speaker 3: towards the end of the shopping day that we're security

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Speaker 3: will escort people staff down to their cars. Now, that's

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Speaker 3: not something that you should have to do, and I

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Speaker 3: don't think anyone would believe it's acceptable, but that was

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Speaker 3: all in the budget and we're working with it. And

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Speaker 3: we will close off every entry into CATHERINEA Square shopping

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Speaker 3: center after dark. Now that's a fairly expensive task, so

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Speaker 3: all of the driveways, all the ways in because we

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Speaker 3: are sick of people using our undercover car park as

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Speaker 3: a toilet, which costs has ten thousand dollars a month.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's up to us to clean that out,

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Speaker 3: so we will close it off.

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Speaker 2: Now, when are you going to do that or when

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Speaker 2: are you going to start doing that?

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Speaker 3: Well, we've already started on measuring it up. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot of entrances there, Katie, so we've got to get

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Speaker 3: them more measured up than all priced up. And so

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Speaker 3: it will take some time. Now, we're fully aware before

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Speaker 3: someone starts ringing in that it's a cyclone shelter. We're

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Speaker 3: aware of that. But we have a staff on site

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Speaker 3: twenty four hours a day, so if ever there is

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Speaker 3: a cyclone warning and it has to use a cyclone shelter,

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Speaker 3: it will all be opened up, so that is not

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Speaker 3: an issue. But we're not going to let people use

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Speaker 3: a Catherine Square as a toilet, and we're hopeful that

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Speaker 3: if they don't sleep there of a night, well then

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Speaker 3: they're not there of the next morning to cause more problems.

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Speaker 1: A pretty unprecedented thing to have to do, isn't it

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Speaker 1: to totally close it all off after hours?

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Speaker 3: Well, when you see some of the things are happening

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Speaker 3: in the city here, they're unprecedented. Unprecedented times require unprecedented actions. Now,

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Speaker 3: I know by us stopping the issues at Casarina Square

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Speaker 3: doesn't make the bad element become good, It just shifts

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Speaker 3: it somewhere else. But as a shopping center owner, we

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Speaker 3: have a responsibility to our shoppers and the tenants and

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Speaker 3: their staff to provide a clean, safe environment. So we'll

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Speaker 3: do whatever we can and we'll spend whatever we have

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Speaker 3: to spend to get that done and they can move

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Speaker 3: somewhere else and that's someone else's problem. You know, it

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Speaker 3: really comes down to the government. That's what we pay

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Speaker 3: our taxes on that for. So we'll just look after

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Speaker 3: our property. But it's heading the right way. You're seventy

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Speaker 3: four percent reduction in one year is substantial. And the

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Speaker 3: canine patrols and while it might seem a heavy handed approach,

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Speaker 3: we have had a lot of phone calls and letters

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Speaker 3: from people saying how much better they feel there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the main thing. Shoppers need to feel

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Speaker 1: safe while they are there. I don't mind if there's

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Speaker 1: the canine patrols there and then I know that you

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Speaker 1: know that everybody's in a safe environment inside the shopping center,

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Speaker 1: but particularly for people that work there.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, we we were there the other day and

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Speaker 3: one of the dogs, Chopper, he's just an awful looking thing,

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Speaker 3: but scary looking. Oh, just horrent. But when we were

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Speaker 3: we were there talking with the security guards and he

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Speaker 3: just slays down, goes to sleep. They said, he knows

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Speaker 3: when there's a threat. Kids will pat the dog and

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Speaker 3: he's quick wags his tail, but they know that they

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Speaker 3: know the troublemakers. Yeah, so yeah, you don't get things

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent right on hundercent of the time. But

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Speaker 3: it's going the right way. Well into putting another another

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Speaker 3: dog on there outside, it's heating the right way. We're

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Speaker 3: very happy with way it's going, Katie larn.

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Speaker 1: We are going to have to get ready to wrap up,

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Speaker 1: but I do want to talk to you briefly as

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Speaker 1: well about about your plans for student of as in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory or in Darwin.

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Speaker 2: Where are you at with thath.

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Speaker 3: We haven't made a lot of progress in order to

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Speaker 3: build student accommodation you need land. We have had some

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Speaker 3: discussions with the government and we haven't got a positive

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Speaker 3: result at this time, but we'll continue to talk. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not good at begging and I'm prominent going to

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Speaker 3: start that. But we did have a very good meeting

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Speaker 3: with the Lord Mayor yesterday with con You know, it's

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Speaker 3: an urgent situation now for people who don't know central

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Speaker 3: and some people mightn't care. We don't do residential that

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Speaker 3: isn't our business, but there is a desperate need for

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Speaker 3: accommodation in Darwin. If the economy is going to grow,

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Speaker 3: then you've got to have somewhere for them to live,

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Speaker 3: and there's not enough workers here. Now we've been told

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Speaker 3: by a number of people that all the builders are

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Speaker 3: flat out, so you've got to do something else. So

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Speaker 3: we're bringing in modular housing. We do intend to do

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Speaker 3: what's called built ent BTR, which is very big in

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Speaker 3: the States to s don't do that Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane.

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Speaker 3: We do want to start doing that up here because

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Speaker 3: there needs to be some quality accommodation, affordable accommodation delivered asap.

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Speaker 3: So we'd like to see the government on board. They

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Speaker 3: have told us they're looking at it and doing reports,

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Speaker 3: but there's nothing happening.

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Speaker 1: What would you need though, would you need them to

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Speaker 1: provide the land?

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Speaker 3: Well, at the end of the day, the rent that

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Speaker 3: has to be charged is based upon the cost, so

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Speaker 3: you know the government has a problem. Now we're not

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Speaker 3: after charity. We're a commercial business. But at the moment,

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Speaker 3: with the cost of construction here, I don't think you'd

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Speaker 3: go and buy a block of land and what someone

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Speaker 3: would say is appropriate value and build it and make money. Now,

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Speaker 3: if you can't make money, you just can't get finite

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Speaker 3: simple as that.

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Speaker 1: And so are you proposing free land well, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a lease or something.

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Speaker 3: Now, there was a very good report and I'm happy

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Speaker 3: to send it to you, done by the Property Council

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Speaker 3: of Australia in the last month, which talks about the

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Speaker 3: benefits of students where they spend over four thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: a month. So if you think, you know you get

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Speaker 3: another five thousand students who're spending five thousand dollars a month.

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Speaker 3: What that does to the economy Now, the government get

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Speaker 3: taxed and everything else. So we're happy to work with

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Speaker 3: a government on a to achieve it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're not necessarily not asking for a freebe

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Speaker 1: looking at maybe leasing the land or something like that

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Speaker 1: or something.

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Speaker 3: We're happy to sit down with a feasibility and see

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Speaker 3: what works, Katie. But if the government says, well we

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Speaker 3: don't want any accommodation, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I know that down at the waterfront.

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Speaker 1: My understanding is that some of that land has been

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Speaker 1: provided to a commercial or it's been put out for

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Speaker 1: a tender process down at the waterfront to provide that

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Speaker 1: accommodation or a hotel down there. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: whether that sets any kind of precedent in terms of

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Speaker 1: you know, some kind of agreement being made.

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Speaker 3: Well, they were looking I think, and they did have

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Speaker 3: a six star hotel or going to put there I

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Speaker 3: think by land Bridge, but then COVID sort of.

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Speaker 2: Rule no, there's another one. Yeah, we're down at the waterfront.

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Speaker 3: I think we need some accommodation right the city.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, with the new charlest Up campus, you need accommodation

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Speaker 3: for students. You need accommodation for workers because there will

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Speaker 3: be clean as elbe Cook's LB security, So you need it.

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Speaker 3: You need it in the city.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess I'm not getting at that land being

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Speaker 1: the land that's provided for student accommodation. But I suppose

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Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is that if they've gone into

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Speaker 1: some kind of or if they're set to go into

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Speaker 1: some kind of commercial arrangement with a developer for something

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Speaker 1: like a hotel, you would think that they'd be prepared

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Speaker 1: to go into some kind of negotiations when it comes

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Speaker 1: to student accommodation as well.

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Speaker 3: You would think, Yes, that sounds reasonable that I'm not

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Speaker 3: aware of any of it yet, and we're here quite regularly,

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Speaker 3: and I know the government's got a lot of issues

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Speaker 3: on I know that, but you know, just looking into

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Speaker 3: things and doing more research. Well, there's nothing under construction

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Speaker 3: for student accommodation, so whatever's happened in the past hasn't

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Speaker 3: been successful. So you know, the definition of stupidity is

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Speaker 3: to continue doing the same thing expect a different result.

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Speaker 3: Action needs to be taken well.

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Speaker 1: Warren Ebbittt, we really appreciate your time this morning, CEO

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Speaker 1: of Sentinel Property, Thank you so very much for coming

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Speaker 1: into the studio and having a chat with us.

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Speaker 3: Terrific Katie look forward to doing it at anytime.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.