WEBVTT - Dr Phil Challenges Rodney Reed's Conviction 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:01.480 Good. 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.120 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:08.520 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.160 It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:12.120 absolutely really. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.280 Put his blood on his clothing the day after the 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:15.120 alleged a toime. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.000 On a shallow mud bank and it fits through a river. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.160 Basically, I think most of the people are used to 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:20.640 me are good people. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.320 I think a really important question we need to ask 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.400 is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:29.960 This is Kurtain, a podcast where we pulled back the 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.479 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.280 our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.640 Amy Maguire and. 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:42.159 I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:46.560 Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the names 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.879 of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.160 some listeners. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:58.400 Welcome to Curtain the podcast. For long time listeners of 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.840 the show. Ware of the case of Rodney Reid, an 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.120 African American man on death row in Texas for a 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.360 crime he didn't commit. You would have heard us over 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:16.640 the years discuss the similarities between Kevin Henry's case and Rodney's, 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:23.560 the overwhelming evidence in favor of Rodney's innocence, and the 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:29.399 evidence suggesting very strongly that the victim in Rodney's case, 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:35.039 Stacy Stitz, was murdered by her then fiance, a police officer, 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:42.360 Jimmy Fanell. Rodney faces execution in just a few weeks time, 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:49.920 but there's been a major breakthrough. Psychologist and international TV 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:54.800 star doctor Phil has come on board and dedicated two 0:01:54.840 --> 0:02:00.600 episodes of his show to forensically analyze Rodney his case, 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:05.760 interviewing Rodney, bringing in new experts and looking at the evidence. 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.800 He's not only done that, he's also convinced himself that 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.600 Rodney is an innocent man. But before we get into 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:21.360 discussing more of that, Rodney Reed's brother, Roderick has recorded 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.440 this message, especially for kurtin the podcast listeners. 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.960 My name is roder Reed. I'm a brother of Rodney Reed, 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.880 an innocent man on death role, accused of capital murder, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.639 eccuse of murdering Stacey states when all the evidence showed 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.880 that Jimmy Fill all the forensic evidence show that Jimmy 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:52.519 fer Now committed this crime. We're here today to talk 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.760 a little bit about my brother's case, and what I 0:02:55.800 --> 0:03:01.600 would like to say is that day one, we've always 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.520 known that my brother's innocent. We've always known about the 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:09.000 consensual relationship. We've always known about the non testing of 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.840 the murder weapon, about the DNA on the very cans. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:22.200 We've known these things since nineteen ninety eight. Right now 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.880 we have somebody that's saying what we've been saying for 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.920 all those years, and it seems to be catching and 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.760 trending now. And we thank God for that because my 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.320 mom said in the very beginning of this case that 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:38.520 you may try to do what you're gonna do to 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.600 my son, but at the end of it, the whole 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.160 world will know. The whole world will know what you're 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.760 trying to do to my son. And we thank God 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.640 for that. And not only do we thank God for that, 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.120 we think doctor Phil for that because he has that 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:57.080 voice that is advocating for my brother and showing his innocence. 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.800 So I encourage people to go to the Doctor Field show, 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.480 look at it, not just today but tomorrow's well. Listen 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.480 to all the evidence that he presents, Listen to his 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:14.600 own personal his own medical examiner, Listen to it, and 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.200 come up to that with your own conclusion. Don't let 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.640 doctor Phild just influence you. Don't let the Red family 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.760 influence you, don't let the members of the Stacey Sites 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.800 family that believe that writing is in its influence. You 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:34.400 do your own research, come over with your own conclusion. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.560 And that's what I challenge everybody out there to do. 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.240 Right now, we're doing a tour and what you can 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.720 do right now to help us is to contact Governor 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:52.120 Red Gabbott, the Bard Department paroles to the Bastrop County 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:59.520 District Attorney Brian Gertz, write letters, call their phone through 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.640 it over and over again until they get tired of 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.760 them ringing, or til that machine run out of backery, 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:11.000 whatever whatever comes first. But do these things so we 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.640 can get justice, not just for Rodney, but for Safety's 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:19.320 Sites as well, because that affects the least of us, 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.200 affects the rest of us. And so we encourage you 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.320 to do these things. And you can go to our 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.159 website if you want to help us continue with this 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.800 journey that we're doing to save Rodney's life. Hey, go 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.880 to our website. We have PayPal, we have a venmo, 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:40.159 we have fundraiser, we have many ways that you can support. 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.560 Right now, we're not doing T shirts because we're on 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.560 the road, but we will pick up and continue to 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.680 do them later. So if you want to help us, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.760 that's the way to help the family. That's the way 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.440 to help Rodney. That's the way to get truth. That's 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.440 the way that we can bring justice out the streets 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.840 and put it back into the courtroom. By NY's names 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.760 in the life, you thank you everybody for there. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.000 So that was Roderick Reed, who was Rodney Reid's brother, 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.240 and he sent us that message from America where the family, 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:18.040 the Reed family are actively fighting the scheduled educ execution 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:25.520 of Rodney Reid, which is currently scheduled for later in November. 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.719 And many of you who have been following this podcast 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.680 would know about mister Reed's case because we really started 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.960 our investigation into Kevin Henry through Rodney Reed, and that 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.640 was largely based on the fact that Martin Hodgson, my 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:48.440 co host, has actually been assisting Rodney for the past decade. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.360 And it's really interesting because a lot of the lessons 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.760 that Martin has taken from working with cases like Rodney's 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.040 and so many others all over the world. He's used 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.920 and applied in relation to reinvestigating Kevin's case. So it's 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:07.400 really interesting. We're at a stage currently where there is 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:12.120 a schedule execution, but there's actually been some movement over 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.880 just the past few days in relation to Rodney Reid's case, 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:20.800 and it actually affects the entire movement around wrongful convictions 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:25.840 and exonerations and innocence projects. And that's the advocacy of 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.240 a very famous television host, doctor Phil who many of 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.880 you may know episodes of his program. He's been putting 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:39.040 out the facts around Rodney Reid and particularly around his innocence. 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.800 So we're going to dedicate the program today to this 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.640 case because it really is a matter of lafe and 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.320 death and it's approaching really fast. The family are asking 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.960 for new forensic evidence to be put into court, but 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.720 particularly for a stay of execution. So I just wanted 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.960 to start mid and by asking, you know, you've been 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:02.080 involved in this case for a decade, how would you 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.840 define where it currently sists? And particularly over the past 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.760 a couple of days, seeing the movement around the media 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.000 and greater public pressure, how does that feel for you, 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.360 particularly given that over the past decade there may have 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.600 not been that level of attention that there should have been. 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.800 Yeah, it's definitely been an eventful couple of days. I 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.640 think the one word to describe the last ten years 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.280 and more than twenty for Rodney and his family is frustration. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.920 Because he's always maintained his innocence. The evidence has always 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:44.000 been there that he is innocent, and yet time after 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:49.480 time courts have refused to look at that evidence, and 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.199 new evidence will come in that shows even more conclusively 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:59.680 that Rodney couldn't have committed the crime, whether that be 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:06.520 new forensic evidence DNA. Quite a number of witnesses as 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:13.920 attest to Rodney's alibi implicate the real killer, who was 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:20.520 Stacy's fiance, but none of that has ever seemed to matter. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.400 The truth hasn't seen matter at all, and appeals court 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.280 other appeals court has failed to do anything. And Rodney's 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.760 had a number of staid executions where he's come very 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:36.800 close to being executed. And in the last few months 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:41.720 we've really been counting down the days and it seemed 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:47.240 like nothing was going to stop Rodney's execution despite his 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:51.400 clear innocence, and then everything has turned on its head. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:56.480 I think not only has doctor philm used his program 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:01.680 to highlight the case. He's used his consumer vable resources 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:06.640 to really expose the truth based purely on the evidence. 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:13.080 He's brought in new forensic scientists, forensic pathologists, He's used 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.360 his own experience as a psychologist. He sat down and 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:21.280 interviewed Rodney for over an hour. And I think when 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.719 someone with such a high profile comes on board and 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.440 not only says to people, have a look at this, 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:36.080 but really, what doctor Phil has done has exposed the 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.679 very frustration that everyone else has felt and done it 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.720 in a very methodical way by detailing just how much 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:50.360 evidence there is for Rodney to show that he is innocent. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.920 Certainly, it does feel like the momentum has. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.600 Completely swung from counting that down the days till Texas 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.360 would get kill an innocent man, to now feeling like 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.240 they really is genuine hope for Rodney and that he 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.280 will fight to see another day. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:14.160 Mardam, I feel like, you know, just doing Kevin's case 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.600 and knowing that you know Kevin's voice can't be heard 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.920 until he gets out, and the fact that doctor Phil 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.600 has actually gone in and interviewed Rodney, just from your 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.600 knowledge of Rodney, because I know you have gotten to 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:32.080 know him quite well over the years. Do you think 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.920 that that that has played a part potentially in you know, 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.000 him being able to have a voice and him being 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:43.760 able to have that broadcast in a national and even 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.719 an international way, And particularly how would do you think 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.240 it would help him, particularly as as he awaits you know, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:56.360 scheduled execution, but also potentially a stay of execution. Yeah. 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.360 I think one thing you can say about Rodney and 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:05.120 his entire family is that they've always believed not only 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.720 in his innocence, but the fact that the truth would 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:15.280 come out. And so often that in many cases seems 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:19.480 to be blind optimism, but the family has just such 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:24.600 tremendous faith, and Rodney is so stoic, and I think 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.920 one of the things Rodney's always felt is just give 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:33.480 him a chance to tell his story and the truth 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:38.280 would come out. And I think that's where doctor phil 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:43.640 provides a very powerful conduit to the outside world, is 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.559 that for someone like Rodney, who's always. 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.160 Maintained his innocence, who. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:54.000 Is supported by all that evidence, the one thing they 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.440 really want is for people to listen to them with 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:02.120 open ears, don't prejudge anything about the case, just listen 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.720 to what they have to say, and then once you've 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.960 heard Rodney speak, then look at the evidence. And I 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.400 think obviously there's a huge similarity with both Kevin and 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.440 Rodney in that sense, which is that both of them 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.000 just want to be heard, and because both of them 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.679 are so confident not only in their innocence, but in 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:29.360 the fact that the evidence overwhelmingly points to their innocence. 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.360 And as you mentioned. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:38.080 With Kevin's case, because Australian prisoners can't be interviewed, we 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.080 don't get to hear the public don't get to hear 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:46.080 Kevin's voice. But I think it's tremendously empowering for Rodney 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.600 in this situation to not only be able to get 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.960 his voice out there. I mean, he's been able to 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.839 in the past. He's done interviews, but primarily owing to 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:01.160 very small news organizations and local news organized nations in 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.439 his area in Texas, But as you mentioned, this really 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:11.280 is national, international, and it's being conducted by someone who, 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.679 let's be honest, in doctor Field is an international celebrity 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.960 and known around the world. So to have that is 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:25.080 hugely empowering and I think only further strengthens the family's 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:30.160 resolves and their belief that the truth will come out. 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.560 But one thing I have to say about what Rodney 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.080 and the family is they never stop fighting, and they 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:41.400 don't whatever it takes to get the information. And I 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:46.440 think part of the reason someone doctor Phil can come 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:53.680 along is because of someone Rodney and his strength, his 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:58.600 ability to articulate his case and the evidence, and his 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.080 family just never give up and being supported by the 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.000 team of friends and the lawyers and the laws of 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:10.600 supporters who have just pushed for this past twenty years 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:14.440 really and so that when someone at Doctor Phil came along, 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.440 it was really obvious that this needed to be looked at. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.680 And I think anyone who looks at Kevin's case or 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.680 looks at Rodney's case has the same reaction. 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:27.240 Something's not right. 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.680 And then when they look at the evidence, they see 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.360 it's clear these are two men who are clearly innocent. 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.680 And I actually watched the first episode of Doctor Phil's 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.000 special on Rodney today and I was struck just so 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.920 often by how many similarities there are between Kevin's and 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.800 Rodney's case. And I'm sure any of yours who watched 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.640 Doctor Phil and who listened to the podcast will be 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.120 able to pick that out straight away. But The thing 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.520 have found always amazing, particularly in learning more about Rodney's case, 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.360 is just the fact that it has never been national news. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.680 And I think that's something I've asked you a number 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:06.240 of times. I really can't believe that, you know, it 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.400 has not gotten the prominence that it deserves over the 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.040 past ten years, and now it's only in the last 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.840 literally three weeks, the eleventh hour, that it's getting international attention, 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.280 and only because, as you said, a celebrity has decided 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:28.120 to devote every resource to actually overturning this really huge injustice. 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.560 Why has it taken the mardin? Is there an even 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.480 an answer to why? Because you know, I see similar 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:40.040 cases get quite a lot of attention, but this seems 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.920 just to be such an overpowering, massive injustice that could 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.160 really have an outcome that you cannot reverse. I mean, 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.840 a man could die, you know, in three weeks, Rodney, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.760 you know, could could be executed. Why has it taken 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.160 so long till the eleventh hour? 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:56.680 Do you think? 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:03.200 I think there's a really simple answer, unfortunately, and it 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:08.760 mirrors the case of Kevin Henry, which is that both 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.879 men are from out of the way areas. Rodney is 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:19.240 from rural and Kevin is from rural Queensland, and too 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.880 often I think the only way clearly people find out 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:28.560 about these cases is through the media, and too often 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:34.640 rural areas are ignored. Despite the fact that Rodney's case, 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.200 I think is one of the most compelling miscarriages of 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:43.080 justice in US history. For there to be absolutely no 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:47.639 evidence of his guilts and yet a state being willing 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:53.080 to sentence him to die in the twenty first century 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:54.480 is really sick. 0:17:55.320 --> 0:18:00.040 And for the fact that there has been more and more. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:06.440 Friend's evidence not only point to Rodney's innocence, but highlight 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:11.200 who clearly committed this crime. The victim's fiance, who I 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.800 should point out for those who don't know, was a 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:19.639 police officer, and a number of years after Stacey was 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:24.400 murdered his fiance he went on to be convicted of 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.480 raping and assaulting another woman who was in his custody. 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:35.200 And even when that happened, it didn't seem like anyone 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.800 but the local media in Rodney's area sat up and 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.959 took notice that you had a police officer who had 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.560 clearly gotten away with murder and someone else was going 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.400 to die for it. And for me, it's very similar 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:50.760 to Kevin's case. 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:55.879 In that you have a man where his sentence to 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:56.480 spend the. 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.359 Rest of his life in prison for a crime, whereas 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.359 there is euro evidence he committed that crime, and no 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.359 one seems to pay attention. And I think we've seen 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.960 in cases both in America and in Australia receive huge 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:20.440 attention where the evidence is quite contested, there's evidence both 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:25.040 for and against the accused, where people's sentences may only 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.120 be five or ten years, still long sentences, but nothing 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.439 compared to death or life, which both Rodney and Kevin face, 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.080 and yet nothing's done. And I think a lot of 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.080 that goes to the culture of the media and problem 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:45.560 points to why we started the podcast in the first place, 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:51.400 which we should remind everyone that his podcast was born 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:56.520 out of a conversation and I had about Rodney and 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.560 I guess Amy, I should ask you that, given we're 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.080 talking about a case now that has international attention in 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.520 the last few dayies and doctor phil has come along 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.919 that four years ago you were actually a journalist on 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.719 the other side of the world who wanted to know 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:21.080 more about Rodneyton's case and give it the publicity it deserved. 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.840 What caught your attention about Rodney's case. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.000 Well, it was really interesting, man, because I really remember 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.000 asking you on to the program I was on at 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.080 the time, which was average a radio down in Brisbane, 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.920 and it was really because at that time, making a 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:42.040 murderer had been such a huge phenomenon all across the world. 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.320 But at the same time I knew that there's so 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:49.200 many black men who had been wrongfully convicted as well. 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.520 And I remember talking to you about coming on and 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.480 talking about one particular case, Rodney Reid. And when I 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.119 read about the case, I was just obviously shocked, but 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.560 obviously when you come on, I was even more. But 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.000 as we would talking, remember I asked you the question, 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.360 and now I feel really stupid about asking you the question. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.280 I said, well, why are you working on cases overseas 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.520 when you could be working in Australia. Why are you 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.720 doing this when there's so many blackfellows over here who 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.560 really need help? And I remember you saying that, well, 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.720 actually you've gone over there to actually learn and to 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.880 bring those lessons that you cannot possibly learn over here 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.040 back to Australia to help. Is when I started to 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.080 think of Kevin's name, and I couldn't stop thinking of 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:34.439 Kevin's name, because I had no idea if there was 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.720 evidence to support his innocence or evidence to support his 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:41.480 skill to that point, but I just knew that you must, 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.840 you know, you would be the person who would know 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.120 if to look at it, if you could look at it. 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.560 And so, you know, I've felt really accesst watching what's 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.280 happened to Rodney over the past three years because I 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:57.639 feel so strongly that the cases are connected, and I 0:21:57.640 --> 0:21:59.840 guess I can't help but think, you know, you know, 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:02.160 I want justice for Rodney because for me it means 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.000 justice for Kevin in some small way. And so to 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:08.399 see doctor Phil actually come on board, and knowing our 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.040 own struggles with trying to get any sort of mainstream 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.960 media attention for Kevin, that gives me a lot of 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.320 hope for Kevin as well. And I know that we're 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.640 in and hopefully we can update our listeners to where 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:24.040 we're currently at with Kevin's case in the coming months, 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:26.840 and Australia is so different from the US and that 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.600 we have to be a lot more therefore in what 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.280 we do in order not to him in case anyway. 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.920 But I really hope that that people will actually open 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.359 their eyes and understand what actually happened in such similar 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:45.000 circumstances in our own backyard. And I think seeing doctor 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.600 Phil come into that, I would hope that some of 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.439 our own you know, people with public profiles will actually 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.160 do that, you know. And I think, like I've been 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:57.720 a bit, you know, promoting Doctor Phil's show over the 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.359 past few days, and a lot of people who may 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:03.439 not like the people who may have problems with that 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.199 sort of type of commercial TV, you know, so I 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.520 sort of just think, well, what's the other people doing 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:13.600 to help? And it's like Rodney, innocent people like Rodney. 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.480 I think, you know, there's no room for judgment in 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.040 relation to any of this. I think we have to ask, 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.960 you know, what's a lot of our prominent people over 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:28.240 here actually doing to help in similar ways? What do 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.200 you think about that that Martin, about the fact that 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.199 you know, this has really come from a person like 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:37.240 doctor Phil, who I guess many people wouldn't expect, but 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:42.680 you know, other journalists and other media people haven't really 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:43.600 paid attention to this. 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:48.879 Yeah, I think it's there's two reasons I think that 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:50.520 this happens. 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:55.840 Is One, people seem to make an assumption that only. 0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:01.119 A certain type of person cares about these cases. Ultimately, 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.440 having worked with families in this position for more than 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:09.760 fifteen years, no one cares about the person's politics, what 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:13.439 TV channel or media company they might be associated with, 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.520 who they are. All they care about is that someone 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:21.439 shows up. And you know, I've had a few people 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.679 make the comments to me about doctor Phil and you know, 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:29.240 the commercial media side of things. But I have nothing 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:33.480 but praise for doctor Phil because in the end, if 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:37.680 he didn't come along, Rodney would almost certainly have died. 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:42.520 And all that matters to me and to Rodney's family 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:45.879 are those who support and love Rodney, is that the 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:49.200 truth comes out and Rodney walks out a free man, 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:53.440 an innocent man that he is. So I think anyone 0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:57.480 who is judging me soul has to ask themselves what 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:03.720 have they done for Rodney? And if they aren't willing 0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:07.640 or simply haven't got around to it, or haven't been 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:12.280 wor well, they need to reflect on themselves before passing 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:16.760 judgment on anyone else. I also think it comes the 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:20.119 second issue is it comes to highlight the problem in 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:26.600 Australia that too often we see and you know you 0:25:26.640 --> 0:25:28.520 spoke about me working overseas. 0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:30.440 Is that too often we. 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.600 See that, even though this is a last minute thing 0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:38.720 with Rodney, but too often we do see people come 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:43.800 on board in cases overseas in Australia, it's very rare 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:49.120 and people and to be totally lost to the system. 0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:53.480 And you know, if you hadn't had that interest in 0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:59.879 Rodney's case really before anyone had outside of that area 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:05.320 of Texas, then I would never have come to work 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:08.000 on Kevin's case and we wouldn't have been able to 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:09.600 get the truth out about Kevin. 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.040 So I think it really calls into. 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:15.439 Question what the mainstream media are doing with their platform 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:22.200 in Australia. We've made the information aware about Kevin's case, 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:25.000 just as Rodney's family and lawyers. 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:26.200 Have done so in America. 0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:31.280 Well, as we've pointed out over all these years, Rodney's 0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:36.200 case and Kevin's case, they're almost identical, and the similarities 0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:41.879 are across both cases. Wherever you turn, Well, someone with 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:47.960