Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 2: Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty
Speaker 2: verdicts against all three defendants.
Speaker 3: It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just
Speaker 3: absolutely really.
Speaker 4: Put his blood on his clothing the day after the
Speaker 4: alleged a toime.
Speaker 1: On a shallow mud bank and it fits through a river.
Speaker 2: Basically, I think most of the people are used to
Speaker 2: me are good people.
Speaker 1: I think a really important question we need to ask
Speaker 1: is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.
Speaker 4: This is Kurtain, a podcast where we pulled back the
Speaker 4: blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of
Speaker 4: our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm
Speaker 4: Amy Maguire and.
Speaker 1: I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner
Speaker 1: Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the names
Speaker 1: of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset
Speaker 1: some listeners.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Curtain the podcast. For long time listeners of
Speaker 2: the show. Ware of the case of Rodney Reid, an
Speaker 2: African American man on death row in Texas for a
Speaker 2: crime he didn't commit. You would have heard us over
Speaker 2: the years discuss the similarities between Kevin Henry's case and Rodney's,
Speaker 2: the overwhelming evidence in favor of Rodney's innocence, and the
Speaker 2: evidence suggesting very strongly that the victim in Rodney's case,
Speaker 2: Stacy Stitz, was murdered by her then fiance, a police officer,
Speaker 2: Jimmy Fanell. Rodney faces execution in just a few weeks time,
Speaker 2: but there's been a major breakthrough. Psychologist and international TV
Speaker 2: star doctor Phil has come on board and dedicated two
Speaker 2: episodes of his show to forensically analyze Rodney his case,
Speaker 2: interviewing Rodney, bringing in new experts and looking at the evidence.
Speaker 2: He's not only done that, he's also convinced himself that
Speaker 2: Rodney is an innocent man. But before we get into
Speaker 2: discussing more of that, Rodney Reed's brother, Roderick has recorded
Speaker 2: this message, especially for kurtin the podcast listeners.
Speaker 5: My name is roder Reed. I'm a brother of Rodney Reed,
Speaker 5: an innocent man on death role, accused of capital murder,
Speaker 5: eccuse of murdering Stacey states when all the evidence showed
Speaker 5: that Jimmy Fill all the forensic evidence show that Jimmy
Speaker 5: fer Now committed this crime. We're here today to talk
Speaker 5: a little bit about my brother's case, and what I
Speaker 5: would like to say is that day one, we've always
Speaker 5: known that my brother's innocent. We've always known about the
Speaker 5: consensual relationship. We've always known about the non testing of
Speaker 5: the murder weapon, about the DNA on the very cans.
Speaker 5: We've known these things since nineteen ninety eight. Right now
Speaker 5: we have somebody that's saying what we've been saying for
Speaker 5: all those years, and it seems to be catching and
Speaker 5: trending now. And we thank God for that because my
Speaker 5: mom said in the very beginning of this case that
Speaker 5: you may try to do what you're gonna do to
Speaker 5: my son, but at the end of it, the whole
Speaker 5: world will know. The whole world will know what you're
Speaker 5: trying to do to my son. And we thank God
Speaker 5: for that. And not only do we thank God for that,
Speaker 5: we think doctor Phil for that because he has that
Speaker 5: voice that is advocating for my brother and showing his innocence.
Speaker 5: So I encourage people to go to the Doctor Field show,
Speaker 5: look at it, not just today but tomorrow's well. Listen
Speaker 5: to all the evidence that he presents, Listen to his
Speaker 5: own personal his own medical examiner, Listen to it, and
Speaker 5: come up to that with your own conclusion. Don't let
Speaker 5: doctor Phild just influence you. Don't let the Red family
Speaker 5: influence you, don't let the members of the Stacey Sites
Speaker 5: family that believe that writing is in its influence. You
Speaker 5: do your own research, come over with your own conclusion.
Speaker 5: And that's what I challenge everybody out there to do.
Speaker 5: Right now, we're doing a tour and what you can
Speaker 5: do right now to help us is to contact Governor
Speaker 5: Red Gabbott, the Bard Department paroles to the Bastrop County
Speaker 5: District Attorney Brian Gertz, write letters, call their phone through
Speaker 5: it over and over again until they get tired of
Speaker 5: them ringing, or til that machine run out of backery,
Speaker 5: whatever whatever comes first. But do these things so we
Speaker 5: can get justice, not just for Rodney, but for Safety's
Speaker 5: Sites as well, because that affects the least of us,
Speaker 5: affects the rest of us. And so we encourage you
Speaker 5: to do these things. And you can go to our
Speaker 5: website if you want to help us continue with this
Speaker 5: journey that we're doing to save Rodney's life. Hey, go
Speaker 5: to our website. We have PayPal, we have a venmo,
Speaker 5: we have fundraiser, we have many ways that you can support.
Speaker 5: Right now, we're not doing T shirts because we're on
Speaker 5: the road, but we will pick up and continue to
Speaker 5: do them later. So if you want to help us,
Speaker 5: that's the way to help the family. That's the way
Speaker 5: to help Rodney. That's the way to get truth. That's
Speaker 5: the way that we can bring justice out the streets
Speaker 5: and put it back into the courtroom. By NY's names
Speaker 5: in the life, you thank you everybody for there.
Speaker 4: So that was Roderick Reed, who was Rodney Reid's brother,
Speaker 4: and he sent us that message from America where the family,
Speaker 4: the Reed family are actively fighting the scheduled educ execution
Speaker 4: of Rodney Reid, which is currently scheduled for later in November.
Speaker 4: And many of you who have been following this podcast
Speaker 4: would know about mister Reed's case because we really started
Speaker 4: our investigation into Kevin Henry through Rodney Reed, and that
Speaker 4: was largely based on the fact that Martin Hodgson, my
Speaker 4: co host, has actually been assisting Rodney for the past decade.
Speaker 4: And it's really interesting because a lot of the lessons
Speaker 4: that Martin has taken from working with cases like Rodney's
Speaker 4: and so many others all over the world. He's used
Speaker 4: and applied in relation to reinvestigating Kevin's case. So it's
Speaker 4: really interesting. We're at a stage currently where there is
Speaker 4: a schedule execution, but there's actually been some movement over
Speaker 4: just the past few days in relation to Rodney Reid's case,
Speaker 4: and it actually affects the entire movement around wrongful convictions
Speaker 4: and exonerations and innocence projects. And that's the advocacy of
Speaker 4: a very famous television host, doctor Phil who many of
Speaker 4: you may know episodes of his program. He's been putting
Speaker 4: out the facts around Rodney Reid and particularly around his innocence.
Speaker 4: So we're going to dedicate the program today to this
Speaker 4: case because it really is a matter of lafe and
Speaker 4: death and it's approaching really fast. The family are asking
Speaker 4: for new forensic evidence to be put into court, but
Speaker 4: particularly for a stay of execution. So I just wanted
Speaker 4: to start mid and by asking, you know, you've been
Speaker 4: involved in this case for a decade, how would you
Speaker 4: define where it currently sists? And particularly over the past
Speaker 4: a couple of days, seeing the movement around the media
Speaker 4: and greater public pressure, how does that feel for you,
Speaker 4: particularly given that over the past decade there may have
Speaker 4: not been that level of attention that there should have been.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely been an eventful couple of days. I
Speaker 3: think the one word to describe the last ten years
Speaker 3: and more than twenty for Rodney and his family is frustration.
Speaker 3: Because he's always maintained his innocence. The evidence has always
Speaker 3: been there that he is innocent, and yet time after
Speaker 3: time courts have refused to look at that evidence, and
Speaker 3: new evidence will come in that shows even more conclusively
Speaker 3: that Rodney couldn't have committed the crime, whether that be
Speaker 3: new forensic evidence DNA. Quite a number of witnesses as
Speaker 3: attest to Rodney's alibi implicate the real killer, who was
Speaker 3: Stacy's fiance, but none of that has ever seemed to matter.
Speaker 3: The truth hasn't seen matter at all, and appeals court
Speaker 3: other appeals court has failed to do anything. And Rodney's
Speaker 3: had a number of staid executions where he's come very
Speaker 3: close to being executed. And in the last few months
Speaker 3: we've really been counting down the days and it seemed
Speaker 3: like nothing was going to stop Rodney's execution despite his
Speaker 3: clear innocence, and then everything has turned on its head.
Speaker 3: I think not only has doctor philm used his program
Speaker 3: to highlight the case. He's used his consumer vable resources
Speaker 3: to really expose the truth based purely on the evidence.
Speaker 3: He's brought in new forensic scientists, forensic pathologists, He's used
Speaker 3: his own experience as a psychologist. He sat down and
Speaker 3: interviewed Rodney for over an hour. And I think when
Speaker 3: someone with such a high profile comes on board and
Speaker 3: not only says to people, have a look at this,
Speaker 3: but really, what doctor Phil has done has exposed the
Speaker 3: very frustration that everyone else has felt and done it
Speaker 3: in a very methodical way by detailing just how much
Speaker 3: evidence there is for Rodney to show that he is innocent.
Speaker 6: Certainly, it does feel like the momentum has.
Speaker 3: Completely swung from counting that down the days till Texas
Speaker 3: would get kill an innocent man, to now feeling like
Speaker 3: they really is genuine hope for Rodney and that he
Speaker 3: will fight to see another day.
Speaker 4: Mardam, I feel like, you know, just doing Kevin's case
Speaker 4: and knowing that you know Kevin's voice can't be heard
Speaker 4: until he gets out, and the fact that doctor Phil
Speaker 4: has actually gone in and interviewed Rodney, just from your
Speaker 4: knowledge of Rodney, because I know you have gotten to
Speaker 4: know him quite well over the years. Do you think
Speaker 4: that that that has played a part potentially in you know,
Speaker 4: him being able to have a voice and him being
Speaker 4: able to have that broadcast in a national and even
Speaker 4: an international way, And particularly how would do you think
Speaker 4: it would help him, particularly as as he awaits you know,
Speaker 4: scheduled execution, but also potentially a stay of execution. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think one thing you can say about Rodney and
Speaker 3: his entire family is that they've always believed not only
Speaker 3: in his innocence, but the fact that the truth would
Speaker 3: come out. And so often that in many cases seems
Speaker 3: to be blind optimism, but the family has just such
Speaker 3: tremendous faith, and Rodney is so stoic, and I think
Speaker 3: one of the things Rodney's always felt is just give
Speaker 3: him a chance to tell his story and the truth
Speaker 3: would come out. And I think that's where doctor phil
Speaker 3: provides a very powerful conduit to the outside world, is
Speaker 3: that for someone like Rodney, who's always.
Speaker 6: Maintained his innocence, who.
Speaker 3: Is supported by all that evidence, the one thing they
Speaker 3: really want is for people to listen to them with
Speaker 3: open ears, don't prejudge anything about the case, just listen
Speaker 3: to what they have to say, and then once you've
Speaker 3: heard Rodney speak, then look at the evidence. And I
Speaker 3: think obviously there's a huge similarity with both Kevin and
Speaker 3: Rodney in that sense, which is that both of them
Speaker 3: just want to be heard, and because both of them
Speaker 3: are so confident not only in their innocence, but in
Speaker 3: the fact that the evidence overwhelmingly points to their innocence.
Speaker 6: And as you mentioned.
Speaker 3: With Kevin's case, because Australian prisoners can't be interviewed, we
Speaker 3: don't get to hear the public don't get to hear
Speaker 3: Kevin's voice. But I think it's tremendously empowering for Rodney
Speaker 3: in this situation to not only be able to get
Speaker 3: his voice out there. I mean, he's been able to
Speaker 3: in the past. He's done interviews, but primarily owing to
Speaker 3: very small news organizations and local news organized nations in
Speaker 3: his area in Texas, But as you mentioned, this really
Speaker 3: is national, international, and it's being conducted by someone who,
Speaker 3: let's be honest, in doctor Field is an international celebrity
Speaker 3: and known around the world. So to have that is
Speaker 3: hugely empowering and I think only further strengthens the family's
Speaker 3: resolves and their belief that the truth will come out.
Speaker 3: But one thing I have to say about what Rodney
Speaker 3: and the family is they never stop fighting, and they
Speaker 3: don't whatever it takes to get the information. And I
Speaker 3: think part of the reason someone doctor Phil can come
Speaker 3: along is because of someone Rodney and his strength, his
Speaker 3: ability to articulate his case and the evidence, and his
Speaker 3: family just never give up and being supported by the
Speaker 3: team of friends and the lawyers and the laws of
Speaker 3: supporters who have just pushed for this past twenty years
Speaker 3: really and so that when someone at Doctor Phil came along,
Speaker 3: it was really obvious that this needed to be looked at.
Speaker 3: And I think anyone who looks at Kevin's case or
Speaker 3: looks at Rodney's case has the same reaction.
Speaker 6: Something's not right.
Speaker 3: And then when they look at the evidence, they see
Speaker 3: it's clear these are two men who are clearly innocent.
Speaker 4: And I actually watched the first episode of Doctor Phil's
Speaker 4: special on Rodney today and I was struck just so
Speaker 4: often by how many similarities there are between Kevin's and
Speaker 4: Rodney's case. And I'm sure any of yours who watched
Speaker 4: Doctor Phil and who listened to the podcast will be
Speaker 4: able to pick that out straight away. But The thing
Speaker 4: have found always amazing, particularly in learning more about Rodney's case,
Speaker 4: is just the fact that it has never been national news.
Speaker 4: And I think that's something I've asked you a number
Speaker 4: of times. I really can't believe that, you know, it
Speaker 4: has not gotten the prominence that it deserves over the
Speaker 4: past ten years, and now it's only in the last
Speaker 4: literally three weeks, the eleventh hour, that it's getting international attention,
Speaker 4: and only because, as you said, a celebrity has decided
Speaker 4: to devote every resource to actually overturning this really huge injustice.
Speaker 4: Why has it taken the mardin? Is there an even
Speaker 4: an answer to why? Because you know, I see similar
Speaker 4: cases get quite a lot of attention, but this seems
Speaker 4: just to be such an overpowering, massive injustice that could
Speaker 4: really have an outcome that you cannot reverse. I mean,
Speaker 4: a man could die, you know, in three weeks, Rodney,
Speaker 4: you know, could could be executed. Why has it taken
Speaker 4: so long till the eleventh hour?
Speaker 6: Do you think?
Speaker 3: I think there's a really simple answer, unfortunately, and it
Speaker 3: mirrors the case of Kevin Henry, which is that both
Speaker 3: men are from out of the way areas. Rodney is
Speaker 3: from rural and Kevin is from rural Queensland, and too
Speaker 3: often I think the only way clearly people find out
Speaker 3: about these cases is through the media, and too often
Speaker 3: rural areas are ignored. Despite the fact that Rodney's case,
Speaker 3: I think is one of the most compelling miscarriages of
Speaker 3: justice in US history. For there to be absolutely no
Speaker 3: evidence of his guilts and yet a state being willing
Speaker 3: to sentence him to die in the twenty first century
Speaker 3: is really sick.
Speaker 6: And for the fact that there has been more and more.
Speaker 3: Friend's evidence not only point to Rodney's innocence, but highlight
Speaker 3: who clearly committed this crime. The victim's fiance, who I
Speaker 3: should point out for those who don't know, was a
Speaker 3: police officer, and a number of years after Stacey was
Speaker 3: murdered his fiance he went on to be convicted of
Speaker 3: raping and assaulting another woman who was in his custody.
Speaker 3: And even when that happened, it didn't seem like anyone
Speaker 3: but the local media in Rodney's area sat up and
Speaker 3: took notice that you had a police officer who had
Speaker 3: clearly gotten away with murder and someone else was going
Speaker 3: to die for it. And for me, it's very similar
Speaker 3: to Kevin's case.
Speaker 6: In that you have a man where his sentence to
Speaker 6: spend the.
Speaker 3: Rest of his life in prison for a crime, whereas
Speaker 3: there is euro evidence he committed that crime, and no
Speaker 3: one seems to pay attention. And I think we've seen
Speaker 3: in cases both in America and in Australia receive huge
Speaker 3: attention where the evidence is quite contested, there's evidence both
Speaker 3: for and against the accused, where people's sentences may only
Speaker 3: be five or ten years, still long sentences, but nothing
Speaker 3: compared to death or life, which both Rodney and Kevin face,
Speaker 3: and yet nothing's done. And I think a lot of
Speaker 3: that goes to the culture of the media and problem
Speaker 3: points to why we started the podcast in the first place,
Speaker 3: which we should remind everyone that his podcast was born
Speaker 3: out of a conversation and I had about Rodney and
Speaker 3: I guess Amy, I should ask you that, given we're
Speaker 3: talking about a case now that has international attention in
Speaker 3: the last few dayies and doctor phil has come along
Speaker 3: that four years ago you were actually a journalist on
Speaker 3: the other side of the world who wanted to know
Speaker 3: more about Rodneyton's case and give it the publicity it deserved.
Speaker 6: What caught your attention about Rodney's case.
Speaker 4: Well, it was really interesting, man, because I really remember
Speaker 4: asking you on to the program I was on at
Speaker 4: the time, which was average a radio down in Brisbane,
Speaker 4: and it was really because at that time, making a
Speaker 4: murderer had been such a huge phenomenon all across the world.
Speaker 4: But at the same time I knew that there's so
Speaker 4: many black men who had been wrongfully convicted as well.
Speaker 4: And I remember talking to you about coming on and
Speaker 4: talking about one particular case, Rodney Reid. And when I
Speaker 4: read about the case, I was just obviously shocked, but
Speaker 4: obviously when you come on, I was even more. But
Speaker 4: as we would talking, remember I asked you the question,
Speaker 4: and now I feel really stupid about asking you the question.
Speaker 4: I said, well, why are you working on cases overseas
Speaker 4: when you could be working in Australia. Why are you
Speaker 4: doing this when there's so many blackfellows over here who
Speaker 4: really need help? And I remember you saying that, well,
Speaker 4: actually you've gone over there to actually learn and to
Speaker 4: bring those lessons that you cannot possibly learn over here
Speaker 4: back to Australia to help. Is when I started to
Speaker 4: think of Kevin's name, and I couldn't stop thinking of
Speaker 4: Kevin's name, because I had no idea if there was
Speaker 4: evidence to support his innocence or evidence to support his
Speaker 4: skill to that point, but I just knew that you must,
Speaker 4: you know, you would be the person who would know
Speaker 4: if to look at it, if you could look at it.
Speaker 4: And so, you know, I've felt really accesst watching what's
Speaker 4: happened to Rodney over the past three years because I
Speaker 4: feel so strongly that the cases are connected, and I
Speaker 4: guess I can't help but think, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: I want justice for Rodney because for me it means
Speaker 4: justice for Kevin in some small way. And so to
Speaker 4: see doctor Phil actually come on board, and knowing our
Speaker 4: own struggles with trying to get any sort of mainstream
Speaker 4: media attention for Kevin, that gives me a lot of
Speaker 4: hope for Kevin as well. And I know that we're
Speaker 4: in and hopefully we can update our listeners to where
Speaker 4: we're currently at with Kevin's case in the coming months,
Speaker 4: and Australia is so different from the US and that
Speaker 4: we have to be a lot more therefore in what
Speaker 4: we do in order not to him in case anyway.
Speaker 4: But I really hope that that people will actually open
Speaker 4: their eyes and understand what actually happened in such similar
Speaker 4: circumstances in our own backyard. And I think seeing doctor
Speaker 4: Phil come into that, I would hope that some of
Speaker 4: our own you know, people with public profiles will actually
Speaker 4: do that, you know. And I think, like I've been
Speaker 4: a bit, you know, promoting Doctor Phil's show over the
Speaker 4: past few days, and a lot of people who may
Speaker 4: not like the people who may have problems with that
Speaker 4: sort of type of commercial TV, you know, so I
Speaker 4: sort of just think, well, what's the other people doing
Speaker 4: to help? And it's like Rodney, innocent people like Rodney.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, there's no room for judgment in
Speaker 4: relation to any of this. I think we have to ask,
Speaker 4: you know, what's a lot of our prominent people over
Speaker 4: here actually doing to help in similar ways? What do
Speaker 4: you think about that that Martin, about the fact that
Speaker 4: you know, this has really come from a person like
Speaker 4: doctor Phil, who I guess many people wouldn't expect, but
Speaker 4: you know, other journalists and other media people haven't really
Speaker 4: paid attention to this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's there's two reasons I think that
Speaker 3: this happens.
Speaker 6: Is One, people seem to make an assumption that only.
Speaker 3: A certain type of person cares about these cases. Ultimately,
Speaker 3: having worked with families in this position for more than
Speaker 3: fifteen years, no one cares about the person's politics, what
Speaker 3: TV channel or media company they might be associated with,
Speaker 3: who they are. All they care about is that someone
Speaker 3: shows up. And you know, I've had a few people
Speaker 3: make the comments to me about doctor Phil and you know,
Speaker 3: the commercial media side of things. But I have nothing
Speaker 3: but praise for doctor Phil because in the end, if
Speaker 3: he didn't come along, Rodney would almost certainly have died.
Speaker 3: And all that matters to me and to Rodney's family
Speaker 3: are those who support and love Rodney, is that the
Speaker 3: truth comes out and Rodney walks out a free man,
Speaker 3: an innocent man that he is. So I think anyone
Speaker 3: who is judging me soul has to ask themselves what
Speaker 3: have they done for Rodney? And if they aren't willing
Speaker 3: or simply haven't got around to it, or haven't been
Speaker 3: wor well, they need to reflect on themselves before passing
Speaker 3: judgment on anyone else. I also think it comes the
Speaker 3: second issue is it comes to highlight the problem in
Speaker 3: Australia that too often we see and you know you
Speaker 3: spoke about me working overseas.
Speaker 6: Is that too often we.
Speaker 3: See that, even though this is a last minute thing
Speaker 3: with Rodney, but too often we do see people come
Speaker 3: on board in cases overseas in Australia, it's very rare
Speaker 3: and people and to be totally lost to the system.
Speaker 3: And you know, if you hadn't had that interest in
Speaker 3: Rodney's case really before anyone had outside of that area
Speaker 3: of Texas, then I would never have come to work
Speaker 3: on Kevin's case and we wouldn't have been able to
Speaker 3: get the truth out about Kevin.
Speaker 6: So I think it really calls into.
Speaker 3: Question what the mainstream media are doing with their platform
Speaker 3: in Australia. We've made the information aware about Kevin's case,
Speaker 3: just as Rodney's family and lawyers.
Speaker 6: Have done so in America.
Speaker 3: Well, as we've pointed out over all these years, Rodney's
Speaker 3: case and Kevin's case, they're almost identical, and the similarities
Speaker 3: are across both cases. Wherever you turn, Well, someone with
Speaker 3: a huge platform has stepped up for Rodney, is supporting Rodney,
Speaker 3: is shining a light on the truth and who really
Speaker 3: did this crime, the fact that Rodney's innocent, and he's
Speaker 3: using their tremendous resources in a positive way. And again
Speaker 3: I have to say I have nothing but praise for
Speaker 3: doctor Phil in doing that. And to go and visit
Speaker 3: the Polunski Unit death row, it is a scary place
Speaker 3: to go. Doctor Phil has gone inside and conducted that
Speaker 3: interview with Rodney. It's not something he had to do,
Speaker 3: It's something he felt he should do. And I hope
Speaker 3: there are people in a position of manner in Australia,
Speaker 3: particularly in the media, who feel it's something they should
Speaker 3: defe Kevin Henry not only feel that, but actually because
Speaker 3: why have a platform if you don't use. I say,
Speaker 3: Rodney would have almost certainly died if it wasn't for
Speaker 3: this intervention.
Speaker 6: He still could, but at least now he has hope.
Speaker 6: So who Australia who has his ension.
Speaker 3: Is going to give Kevin Henry that hope and by
Speaker 3: doing so, shine.
Speaker 6: A light on all the other innocents, people particularly.
Speaker 3: Aboriginal and tourists aland to people who have been wrongfully convicted,
Speaker 3: because if you sit back, only criticized in the sideline,
Speaker 3: more people will do, the more people who are wrongfully convicted,
Speaker 3: and to serve out their life without tasting bath and
Speaker 3: that is a.
Speaker 4: Betrayal and I guess mardon. The thing I also wanted
Speaker 4: to add in just thinking about what doctor Phil has
Speaker 4: done is he's really gone and he's taken the evidence
Speaker 4: that has already been put forward very seriously. He's taken
Speaker 4: the experts and the lawyers and the most most important
Speaker 4: with the family and even I guess more critically, Rodney seriously.
Speaker 4: And yet our own experience over here in Australia is
Speaker 4: the fact that we've spent three years, nearly four years
Speaker 4: reinvestigating Kevin's face. We've actually made all of our investigation
Speaker 4: largely public, so you can actually see and tested just
Speaker 4: by listening to the podcast, just by listening to it,
Speaker 4: even twenty episodes. And yet we can't even get idiot
Speaker 4: to do that. We can't get media to even listen,
Speaker 4: you know, and ask really informed questions what we're getting.
Speaker 4: Insteady people don't believe us still, and I just really
Speaker 4: intact that's because I think that's that's a key difference
Speaker 4: in in what doctor Phil has done and what people
Speaker 4: we've seen who really show up for wrongfully convicted people
Speaker 4: that overseas do. It's what we need to see over here.
Speaker 4: You know, you can you can spend the next year
Speaker 4: complaining about things on social media. It's not going to
Speaker 4: get any prisoner out. It's not going to help me really,
Speaker 4: So yeah, I just think it now is time, you know.
Speaker 4: I think the thing that Rodney's case really teaches me
Speaker 4: is that time is precious, you know, and there is
Speaker 4: literally no time left to wait to actually fight for
Speaker 4: justice for people like Kevin On Rodney