1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,159 Speaker 1: We are due to catch up with the Australian Banking 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Association of Australia because they're urging Territorians and indeed everybody 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: across Australia to stay a lurse as Black Friday sales 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: kick off, with shoppers losing almost forty million dollars to 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: scams in the past year. And I know that we 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: all always think to ourselves, oh, it's not going to 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: happen to us. You know, I'm sure that I Am 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: not going to be scammed, But it actually happens a 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: lot more easy than what people would probably realize. And 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: we've spoken to Territorians at different times over the years 11 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: who've been scammed out of their long or their hard 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: earned cash, and it's pretty devastating for people. And sometimes, 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, you're talking scams that are more sort of 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: a matter of being sent an invoice that you think 15 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: you've got coming, not actually double checking the bank account 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: and the BSB and ending up putting that money and 17 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: in some cases huge amounts of money into the wrong account. 18 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: But then when you look at the Black Friday sales, 19 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: sometimes there may be websites or you know, different different side, 20 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: so you think you're buying something that's from an official 21 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: website and it turns out that it's not. So it's 22 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: something we'll all be keeping a really close eye on 23 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: because we know that The CEO of the Australian Banking 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: Association has said that scammers are increasingly using AI to 25 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: mimic real brands, to create fake websites and to post 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: bogus social media listings. Now joining me on the line 27 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: to tell us more about the ways in which we 28 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: can be safe. I just seem to be having a 29 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: bit of an issue with my phone line, but I 30 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: think I've got him now. It is the Australian Banking 31 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: Association's CEO, Simon Birmingham. Good morning to you, Simon. 32 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: Good morning with you. 33 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, lovely to catch up with you as well. Simon, 34 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: tell me, I mean, we know that AI has really 35 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: changed everything. I guess when it comes to a lot 36 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: of what we're doing in our day to day lives, 37 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: but mimicking real brands to create fake websites and posting 38 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: bogus social media listings, it certainly is a bit worrying 39 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: as we head into the Christmas period. In the Black 40 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: Friday sales. 41 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: Well, it is Katie and totally understand we all like 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: to get a good bargain where we can, and Australians 43 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 2: are estimated to spend around seven billion dollars during these 44 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: Black Friday sales. But it's really a warning to just 45 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: take a little bit of extra care in the race 46 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: to get that bargain. If it takes you an extra 47 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: couple of minutes to check that the website you're on 48 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: is the real deal and not a fake, and to 49 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: check that any communications you get are coming from a 50 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 2: real seller, not somebody pretending to be a seller or 51 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: pretending to be a delivery agent, then it's worth your 52 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: time because it could save your money and save you 53 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: being one of around forty million dollars worth of losses 54 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 2: in shopping scams that the Australians currently face each year. 55 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: That is wild. That's such a phenomenal amount of money 56 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: that people have been scammed. 57 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: Okay it is now it's a real battle to try 58 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: to cramp down on this and to make sure that 59 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 2: these scams are stopped. So we talked about AI and 60 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: the introduction. Banks are using those tools to really try 61 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: to stop and slow down scamming and to give bank 62 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 2: customers a greater power and choice to know when they're 63 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: transferring money who they're transferring it to through confirmation of 64 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: paye technologies, to be able to intervene in transactions that 65 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: appear to be higher risk and stop or pause them. 66 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: And these technologies are a race against the scammers. But 67 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: banks are sort of the last line of defense. The 68 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: first line of defense is good consumer behavior and making 69 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: sure that people actually take a bit of care when 70 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 2: they're undertaking purchases themselves. 71 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, simon, what are some of the biggest scam trends 72 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: that shoppers need to be watching out for this year? 73 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: So you mentioned a couple in the intro. Obviously, the 74 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: duplication of websites, so that increasing ability for scammers to 75 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: make a website look like it's the real deal. So 76 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: you should check the URL address properly and carefully. You 77 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: should use a proper search engine to also perhaps double 78 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: check that it's taking you to a legitimate site for 79 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: whatever goods it is that you're looking to purchase from, 80 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: whichever known retailer you're looking to purchase it from. There's also, 81 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: of course, still the barrage of fake text messages, emails 82 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: often linked to delivery arrangements or the like, and A 83 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: key message is that once you've paid for your goods, 84 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: no legitimate retailer should or would be asking you to 85 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: pay any more. So if you get messages around the 86 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: delivery saying that you need to give you credit card 87 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 2: details again or that you need to make some additional 88 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: payment for delivery, that should really send off the alarm 89 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: bells which you go back to the source that you 90 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: bought it from and double check whether any of that 91 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 2: is true. 92 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, Simon, I don't know if it's insight into some 93 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: of my shopping habits, but I definitely get some of those, 94 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, the fake ones pretending to be delivering your parcel. 95 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: And you know, I always make sure that I just 96 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: use the Australia Post app or go to their website 97 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: to track anything before I click on any of those links. 98 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: Exactly, Katie. Using known and verified and trusted sources is 99 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: one of the safest ways to go, and that includes 100 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: the places that you choose to shop. Doesn't mean that 101 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: you can't go and look at new sites or new places, 102 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: but make sure you do a little bit of due 103 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: diligence and checking to ensure that others are having positive 104 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: experiences in actually getting the goods that they get. And 105 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: remember that old adage if it if it seems or 106 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: sounds too good to be true, then it might be 107 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: your sales period. It probably still is too good to 108 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: be true. 109 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. We all love a good sale, but you've 110 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: got to make sure you're being careful, Simon, what's one 111 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: final piece of advice you've got for territoryrians. As I 112 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: know there'd be a lot of people getting messages over 113 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: the next twenty four hours or so about the Black 114 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: Friday sales, what do we need to make sure that 115 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: we're aware of. 116 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 2: Well, in addition to all of those steps, are just 117 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: taking that bit of extra care, pausing, checking, verifying. Look, 118 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: the one last thing is unfortunately, if you do get scammed, 119 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: please do report it. There's no guarantee that your bank 120 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: or anybody else can get the money back for you, 121 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: but if you report it, it increases the chance that 122 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 2: they'll be able to stop the next person from being 123 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: scammed because they'll have better information to work with. 124 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I always hear from people as well, Simon. 125 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: You know they're a bit embarrassed after they do maybe 126 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: get caught up in a scam and they feel like 127 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: they've done something wrong, and you know, we all do 128 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: need to make sure we're more careful and as vigilant 129 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: as we can be. But there's no shame in it, 130 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, make sure that you do report it, make 131 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: sure you tell someone and do your best. If there's 132 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: a way you know to be able to stop from 133 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: being able to make that final payment, do what you 134 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: need to do to try and stop it. 135 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, indegating that really is a key thing for everyone 136 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: that it can happen to the best of us, can 137 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: happen in any circumstances, and so definitely just don't be 138 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: afraid to report because has said, may not get you 139 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: your money back. But it's absolutely key when you think 140 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: about how banks and others in the scams ecosystem can 141 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: go about ensuring that others don't get scamms in the future. 142 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: Knowing the details of scams that are happy and is crucial, 143 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: and I only wish that social media companies did more 144 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: as well. We had shocking revelations just the other week 145 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: that Meta, the Facebook and Instagram owners are taking billions 146 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: of dollars in known scam ads, and it really just 147 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: shows how important the fight is for consumers and others 148 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: to play their part, and certainly banks and legitimate retailers 149 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: and we're all working hard to try to do what 150 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: we can and we'd love to see those social media 151 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: companies step up to the party. 152 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: Yes, spot On couldn't agree more. Well, Simon Birmingham, the 153 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: Australian Banking Association CEO. Great to catch up with you, 154 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning.