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Speaker 1: Alice Springs has been ranked the eighteenth most dangerous city

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Speaker 1: in the world in the mid twenty twenty four crime

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Speaker 1: Index by City. It was published by crowdsawce starter website

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Speaker 1: number zero, and they gave Alice Springs a crime rating

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Speaker 1: of seventy two point one in the mid twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four list. It's equal to the Mexican city of Tijuana,

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Speaker 1: which currently has a rate of ninety one point seven

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Speaker 1: people per one hundred thousand. Now it's ranked only slightly worse. Well,

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Speaker 1: ranked only slightly worse was Cape Town, with a crime

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Speaker 1: rate of seventy three point eight. It's another terrible blow

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Speaker 1: for a town once famous for its bustling tourism, indigenous

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Speaker 1: art and wonderful cultural experiences. Now joining me on the

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Speaker 1: line is Robin Lamley, the Independent member Farra Lun. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Robin.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Robin. How are locals feeling after once again making the

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Speaker 1: headlines across the nation for all wrong reasons.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's very embarrassing. It's shameful that we've ended up

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Speaker 2: on this list. And there's always a conflict here, Katie,

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Speaker 2: because on one hand, people need to know how we're

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Speaker 2: being viewed nationally as well as globally in this instance,

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Speaker 2: but we're also protective. We still have the remains of

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Speaker 2: a tourism industry, and so trying to strike the balance

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Speaker 2: of informing people of just how serious people are seeing

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Speaker 2: us or viewing us as opposed to protecting ourselves and

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Speaker 2: trying to keep whatever good things we've got in place

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Speaker 2: so they don't deteriorate further. It's just a constant battle, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're spot on though, Robin. You know, like I

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Speaker 1: feel for all the local businesses, I feel for all

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Speaker 1: the locals that live there that want the place to flourish.

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Speaker 1: You want the place to be able to get back

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Speaker 1: to its former glory. And you know, when you look

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Speaker 1: at tourism, Jesus must be hard going to try and

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Speaker 1: run a tourism business at the moment when you've got

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not the you know, it's not the

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Speaker 1: issue of the media running the story. The issue is

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Speaker 1: that the crime is not getting better.

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Speaker 2: Correct. Tourism was our number one industry in Central Australia

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Speaker 2: and Alice Springs. I don't know exactly where it sits now,

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Speaker 2: but it just cannot be in that number one position anymore. Look,

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Speaker 2: it's a bit weird this index just come out and

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Speaker 2: put Alice Springs as eighteenth, the eighteenth most dangerous city

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Speaker 2: in the world. Because all the other cities are large, sprawling,

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Speaker 2: most of them are third world or developing cities in

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Speaker 2: countries that are renowned for riding and gangs and organized crime,

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Speaker 2: like Columbia and Mexico and Ecuador and Argentina and Brazil.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of weird that a city, and we're not

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Speaker 2: even technically a city of twenty five thousand people would

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Speaker 2: even rate a mention. So I feel a little bit

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Speaker 2: defensive in that we're being compared to all these other, massive,

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Speaker 2: sprawling cities throughout the world when we're just a speck

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Speaker 2: in the ocean. I'm not saying that our crime is

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Speaker 2: not bad, Katie. It is bad, but when you condense

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Speaker 2: it all down, it's still a story about a handful

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Speaker 2: of people making an enormous amount of trouble and causing

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Speaker 2: a lot of heartache for people in the town. The

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Speaker 2: scale of our crime is microscopic compared to Cape Town

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Speaker 2: or Salvador in Brazil or Gnio, but for us, it's

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Speaker 2: still significant and it's still causing us major problem and

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Speaker 2: for this to come out internationally that we're on this

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Speaker 2: in the top twenty. I mean, no Australian city has

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Speaker 2: ever been in the top twenty of this index. Really

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Speaker 2: is just so incredibly disappointing and just brings home just

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Speaker 2: how rotten things are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you've made like I think that that

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Speaker 1: is absolutely the point, and you know, everybody wants this

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Speaker 1: to get better. We've all had an absolute gutful of

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Speaker 1: the crime that's being experienced. Robin, how have things been

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Speaker 1: over the last few days? I note that it was

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Speaker 1: a horrible weekend in terms of those home invasions I

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Speaker 1: can see on the action for ouris page there's been

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Speaker 1: by the look of it, further damage to businesses as

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Speaker 1: well over the last twenty four hours. How things going

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Speaker 1: from your perspective.

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Speaker 2: Well, people are hearing about this and word gets out

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Speaker 2: very quickly around town. Now people talk about it on

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Speaker 2: a daily basis. The home invasions over the weekend. I'm

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Speaker 2: led to believe that they could be the same people.

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Speaker 2: So you're talking about I think three people allegedly causing

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Speaker 2: an absolute nightmare for three or four people at home.

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Speaker 2: They were home invasions. So you know, I guess that's

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Speaker 2: the point I'm trying to make. It's just such a

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Speaker 2: small group of people causing absolute mayhem and misery for

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Speaker 2: people in this town. And you wonder why we can't

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Speaker 2: get on top of it, because given that it does

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Speaker 2: involve so few people. I know the police are working

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Speaker 2: over time, and that's another story. But the fact that

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Speaker 2: the recruitment and retention of police isn't keeping up with

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Speaker 2: the Beatrician rate of people leaving the police serve in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. We know that. So there's challenges on

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Speaker 2: all levels. But I don't want to minimize the absolute

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Speaker 2: pain and suffering that is being experienced by people in

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Speaker 2: our springs. It was a ramraid last night of a

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Speaker 2: local business. They tore through the front of the business,

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Speaker 2: causing a lot of damage and heartache there. It's ongoing,

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Speaker 2: it's consistent, but I still claim that it's involving such

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Speaker 2: a small group of people that really there shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: any reason why we can't jump on it and just

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Speaker 2: lock them away and throw the key. Wave.

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Speaker 1: You've had enough by the sounds of it, Robin, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you've had a gutfull. Hey, just on

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Speaker 1: you know, like speaking of you know of jails. We

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Speaker 1: know that the construction of the new detention center, the

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Speaker 1: new youth Detention Center, it's substantially complete with detainees set

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Speaker 1: to transition to that new space from October, is what

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory go said yesterday at an announcement. But

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Speaker 1: it comes at a massive cost. Now, this secure facility,

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Speaker 1: which has a forty four bed capacity, has been designed

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Speaker 1: to rehabilitate the government, says, young people and provide them

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Speaker 1: with the skills that they need to get a job

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Speaker 1: and stop offending. Two years ago, that center was flagged

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Speaker 1: to cost seventy million dollars. The final cost one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty million dollars. Robert, that, I mean, it's astronomical.

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Speaker 1: Are you sort of surprised by that price?

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Speaker 2: Take? Oh, of courseed some surprised, Katie. I mean, the

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Speaker 2: any industry that's booming in our Springs at the moment

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Speaker 2: is the are prisons, basically juvenile detention centers in the

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Speaker 2: prison that's where all the money is going in this

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Speaker 2: town to try and lock up offenders and try and

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Speaker 2: rehabilitate people. That look, the government, this government just has

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Speaker 2: not delivered adequately for for Alice Springs in Central Australia.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to addressing youth crime, there's no reason

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Speaker 2: to spend that amount of money if you're taking kids

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Speaker 2: out bush and putting them in a you know, and

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Speaker 2: some sort of youth camp which is talked about every

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Speaker 2: four years leading to an election by everyone, and yet

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Speaker 2: we don't have them.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I can remember in twenty twelve when we came to government,

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Speaker 2: when I was a part of the COELP, we delivered

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Speaker 2: one that was built out at Love's Creek for five

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Speaker 2: million dollars, which is about one hundred k's east of

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs, and it was in an isolated position. There

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Speaker 2: were problems in terms of access and other issues. This

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Speaker 2: government packed it up, Moss called it and then sold

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Speaker 2: everything off, you know, and here we have a bill

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Speaker 2: for what did you say, one hundred and twenty million.

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Speaker 1: One hundred and thirty million for forty four beds.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's that's just ridiculous, that's just insane. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's not necessary, Katie, and I think, yeah, there's just

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Speaker 2: something fundamentally wrong with decisions like that. You know, kids

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Speaker 2: can be taken that bush. We know that there are

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Speaker 2: models in existence, all over the place, and we spend

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Speaker 2: our kids down a youth camp and the Flinders Rangers,

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Speaker 2: we've been doing that for years. I'm sure they didn't

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Speaker 2: spend anywhere near that amount of money. They set up

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Speaker 2: the facility they've got down there, and from all accounts

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Speaker 2: it works well. But I don't know. I just think

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Speaker 2: they're scrambling around the yeah, scrambling around to find solutions.

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Speaker 1: It is so much money. Honestly, it's so much money.

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Speaker 1: And I get it, like I get that jarls are

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Speaker 1: expensive to build. I get that costs are going to blowout,

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Speaker 1: and that they'd started building it, and you know, COVID

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Speaker 1: hit and all sorts of things. But it is just

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Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money. And you know, it's raised

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Speaker 1: with me very often on this show that we spend

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Speaker 1: so much money on youths that are doing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 1: And I know that the parents of a lot of

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Speaker 1: good kids are sort of starting to question why such

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Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money is spent on this space,

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Speaker 1: and if we could spend it in a better way,

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Speaker 1: and like you've pointed out as well, you know, if

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Speaker 1: there's a way to actually spend it where you're able

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Speaker 1: to get kids in programs and doing the right thing

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Speaker 1: before they even have to go to a one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty million dollar facility.

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Speaker 2: Prevention is always better than cure. I think that if

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Speaker 2: this government had have listened to the likes of me

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Speaker 2: and many other people screening at them since twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: when we saw a significant that the beginning of the

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Speaker 2: significant escalation in crime in our springs, we wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: where we are now. We were actively ignored and neglected

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Speaker 2: by this government for many, many years, and now they're

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Speaker 2: scrambling around trying to fix it by throwing huge sums

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Speaker 2: of money at facilities that probably aren't really even needed.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's lots of former youth camps that could

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Speaker 2: be resurrected in Central Australia. There's at least two or

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Speaker 2: three that I can think of that it could be

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Speaker 2: available with a bit of with a lot less funding

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Speaker 2: than what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: The well, Robin Lambley, I always appreciate your time. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for having a chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 1: My pleasure, Katie all a bit, thank you, thanks so much.