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Speaker 1: And as we just spoke to Marian Scrimjaw, the Member

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Speaker 1: for Lingiari, about we know that Australians voted and the

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Speaker 1: Voice referendum was rejected by the majority of voters in

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Speaker 1: every state after millions of Australians back to no vote,

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Speaker 1: rejecting that constitutionally enshrined Indigenous Advisory Body now joining us

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Speaker 1: on the line is one of the prominent No campaigners.

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Speaker 1: Warren Mundine, Good morning, Warren.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Warren.

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Speaker 1: What does the result from the weekend say to you.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's pretty simple. We live in a democracy and

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Speaker 2: people vote and that they're the people who make the

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Speaker 2: final decision. And they made it quite clear. But I

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Speaker 2: think in free areas one is they they have made

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Speaker 2: it quietly that they don't mind having average entistraate on

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Speaker 2: the people in the constitution as the first people. Well,

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Speaker 2: they just rejected the Voice and rejected it really strongly.

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Speaker 2: And also that everywhere and across the country, no matter

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Speaker 2: whether they yes or no campaign or voters or whatever,

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Speaker 2: they want practical outcomes now. They want people to fix

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Speaker 2: things and of course and part of that process will

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Speaker 2: be okay, let's look at all the money spend and

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Speaker 2: make and see that we're having a money spent on

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Speaker 2: outcomes and getting things.

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Speaker 1: Fixed well, and we see it more here in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory then probably anywhere else in Australia. I would

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Speaker 1: argue some of the issues that you know, yeah, with

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Speaker 1: some of the issues that we're dealing with right across

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory have been really really.

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Speaker 3: Tough Warren in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: Though for a lot of locals they have felt like

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Speaker 1: we've been used as a bit of a political football.

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Speaker 2: Well, I can't answer that question. I I don't know

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Speaker 2: what it is. You know is that the people have spoken.

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Speaker 2: We live in a democracy and you know, in some

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Speaker 2: sense I do see that so that they were used

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Speaker 2: as a political football. What we've got to do now

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Speaker 2: is come together as a nation. We saw we saw

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Speaker 2: the vitriolic attacks and comments that have been made during

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Speaker 2: the campaign and we need now to and the Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister needs to show this leadership. You need to come

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Speaker 2: out and start getting us for reconcile and coming back together.

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Speaker 2: I want to respect the Yesque people in that you know,

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Speaker 2: I've been on the loser end of a vote and

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Speaker 2: I know how it feels, and you put your heart

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Speaker 2: and soul and beliefs in it, so you know, I

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Speaker 2: respect that they want to have a rest this week

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Speaker 2: and that, and I think that's only fair to them.

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Speaker 2: And then but next Monday, we've really got to start

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Speaker 2: working together to do the things that we have to

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Speaker 2: do that to resolve all these issues.

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Speaker 3: Do you reckon?

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Speaker 1: We need an order all those services or of those

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Speaker 1: different organizations that are out there that are meant to

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Speaker 1: be working on closing the gap, and it feels like

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Speaker 1: they're not.

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Speaker 2: Well, look at the money that's been spent. We spend

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Speaker 2: billions of dollars every year. I go further than an audit.

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Speaker 2: I run a business. We call it a performance review.

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Speaker 2: That's about Okay, we've got set targets and set expendites

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Speaker 2: to be done. What are the outcomes of that. Have

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Speaker 2: we delivered in the end or have we not delivered?

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Speaker 2: And then we then we work on that and improve it.

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Speaker 2: For me, we need to do that. Look at all

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Speaker 2: these programs, look at all the delivery services. And they're

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Speaker 2: not only ariginal organizations. There are non aboriginal organizations who

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Speaker 2: get fund funded for this. And also states and territories.

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Speaker 2: States and territories are in charge of education, they're in

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Speaker 2: charge of health, and they're in charge of policing and that,

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Speaker 2: so they need to be held accountable as well. So

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Speaker 2: you know, let's do it a less work out. You

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Speaker 2: know where we've failed and what has to be done

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Speaker 2: to improve that, and people who do these jobs must

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Speaker 2: be approved that they've got the outcomes and improving. So

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Speaker 2: if they're talking about education, then they have to get

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Speaker 2: kids to school and reading and writing and mathematics and

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Speaker 2: get it done. You're not doing that, then we need

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Speaker 2: to defund them and give it the money to someone else.

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Speaker 1: Laarren, I know that you, like I know that you

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Speaker 1: keep a close eye on the Northern Territory, as a

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Speaker 1: lot of Australians have over the last sort of six

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Speaker 1: months or so, particularly as we've gone into this referendum

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Speaker 1: and right now in the territory, and I kind of

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Speaker 1: touched on this before. We're going through a really hard patch.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have got a lot of crime, we've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of anti social behavior, we've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of social issues, but also we've got like you

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Speaker 1: just touched on issues when it comes to education issues,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to health in so many different ways.

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Speaker 3: But do you.

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Speaker 1: Feel right now that the Northern Territory government is failing

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Speaker 1: us in the terr try as well.

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't want to go too much into the

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Speaker 2: politics of it all. Look because people have failed for

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Speaker 2: a very long time, uh you know, and look I

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Speaker 2: see the statistics getting worser. I see things are getting

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Speaker 2: bad and that I just find it incredible. You know

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Speaker 2: that the Northern Territory and they talked about lifting the

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Speaker 2: bands and the castles did bit card and we knew

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Speaker 2: it was going to happen, and we saw the results

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Speaker 2: of what was going to happen. The governments have to

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Speaker 2: get faired ingom. They have to be focusing on resolving

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Speaker 2: crime within communities across Australia, and they need to be

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Speaker 2: focusing on those issues of alcohol and drugs and infrastructure

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Speaker 2: and a whole wide range of things that happen. But

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Speaker 2: we must be focusing on outcomes and time frames. You know,

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Speaker 2: we just cannot go and continue the way we are.

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Speaker 2: What that vote on the weekend did we say to

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Speaker 2: thements at state, territory and federal level, do your bloody job.

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Speaker 2: We want things fixed and we want averagal and entirestata

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Speaker 2: on the people. They have the same opportunities and the

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Speaker 2: same outcomes that the rest of Australia wants, and we

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Speaker 2: want it as done practically.

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Speaker 1: Now, Look, I absolutely agree with you. We need we

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Speaker 1: need to sort things out in the Northern Territory at

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Speaker 1: the moment. We've got a lot of issues. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we did just speak to Marian Scrimjaw, the Member forore Lingiari,

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Speaker 1: about remote booths and she reconsenting her electorate. A large

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Speaker 1: number of those did vote yes. What do you think

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Speaker 1: that says?

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Speaker 2: Look, the election has been clear. We have been in

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Speaker 2: a democratic process and the Northern Territory the majority did

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Speaker 2: and so we've got to accept that and not go

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Speaker 2: off in some fantasy trips. We've got to accept and

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Speaker 2: respect the vote of Australians across this country and in

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Speaker 2: the Norman Territory. And now that has happened. The reality

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Speaker 2: is it was a resounding no. So I would respect

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Speaker 2: it even if it was a resounding is. So this

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Speaker 2: is what our people have got to do. Respect that

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Speaker 2: and now get on with the job of fixing the

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Speaker 2: problems and the issues. But also you know, we need

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Speaker 2: to move away from victorhood and griefs. We've got to

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Speaker 2: start looking at the success stories that some Aboriginal title

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Speaker 2: and the people have done out there, and how do

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Speaker 2: we duplicate that across Australia through all these communities were

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Speaker 2: on your.

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Speaker 1: Last reporters, So over the weekend at press conference?

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Speaker 2: What was it?

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Speaker 3: Did it upset you?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've asked in question, just a simple question that

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Speaker 2: you just asked a few minutes ago about you know,

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Speaker 2: what were the poll what was individual abooves? Results are?

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Speaker 2: The reality is that it's about constitution. So it is

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Speaker 2: a majority of Australians and the majority of states that

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Speaker 2: actually made that decision. And the majority of states and

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Speaker 2: the majority of people did that and they made it

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Speaker 2: quite clear what they thought, and even in the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory they made it quite clear what they thought. And

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Speaker 2: that was around resounding no. People have got to get

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Speaker 2: into reality. And what made me angry about the media?

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Speaker 2: I was asking this question, well, what about the suicide

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Speaker 2: rates out there? What about young kids as young as

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Speaker 2: nine and ten killing himself? When I was nine in ten,

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Speaker 2: I was looking forward to a really great life. These

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Speaker 2: kids now see the only way forward is to commit suicide.

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Speaker 2: You know, let's get real. You know, let's get real

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Speaker 2: about the crime, and that's affecting community and it's affecting

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Speaker 2: Darwin as all Sailor Springs and other places and that

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Speaker 2: as well. We've got to deal with these issues. And

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Speaker 2: we've got to get kids to school, you know, we've

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Speaker 2: got to work with the parents, work with the community

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Speaker 2: leaders to get kids are school. Because they don't get

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Speaker 2: to school, they haven't got a good started life. That

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a tough light and we have

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Speaker 2: to do. One thing about the Northern Territory is that

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Speaker 2: we've got to get an expansion of all these opportunities

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Speaker 2: that are in there, you know, like the gas and

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Speaker 2: everything else in there that would create money for the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory so they don't have to live off the

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Speaker 2: tip of the Southerners. They can actually have it, have

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Speaker 2: money like Western Australia and Queensland that is able to

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Speaker 2: build their communities and make them stronger and better and

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Speaker 2: give infrastructure and everything in there. And that creates jobs

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Speaker 2: for all Northern Territory territoriums and it helps businesses and

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Speaker 2: helps things and that's the way forward.

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Speaker 1: Warren, what do you make of the There has been

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Speaker 1: some speculation this morning in the Australian newspaper that Linda

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Speaker 1: Bernie is well, that there's work to sort of try

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Speaker 1: and get rid of her, I guess as the Minister

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Speaker 1: for Indigenous Affairs and put Melanderie McCarthy in of course

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory based sent What do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, we can't we can't look away from you know,

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Speaker 2: and I don't want to make a person. I don't

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Speaker 2: want it to play politics. But it has been a

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Speaker 2: failure on her behalf in regard to what's happening at

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Speaker 2: the moment and in regard to the vote. But it's

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Speaker 2: an internal issue for that for the Labor Party government

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Speaker 2: to sort out and what they're doing, you know they

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Speaker 2: have it. But I do want to say that our

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Speaker 2: Senator Melanderry McCarthy, she was when I went through my

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Speaker 2: dark period. She was one of the few people that

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Speaker 2: run me up and had a good chat to me

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Speaker 2: and I respect that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she is a good person, there is no doubt

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Speaker 1: about that. I mean, all of our Northern Territory representatives

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Speaker 1: are and.

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Speaker 2: You know, married and everyone, and they're really great people.

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Speaker 3: And that's probably one of the things.

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Speaker 1: I suppose to Warren that for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: here in the territory, they were sort of going, well,

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Speaker 1: hang on a sec We've got some really strong Indigenous

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Speaker 1: voices here in the territory that when things were really

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Speaker 1: blowing up earlier in the year in Alice Springs, they

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Speaker 1: weren't actually being listened to, or it felt like they

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Speaker 1: weren't being listened to in Canberra. So how would the

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Speaker 1: Advisory Body make things different and would canber actually listen

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Speaker 1: to that body?

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Speaker 2: Well, well, we saw that voted in the Act. It

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Speaker 2: was the only place in the country that had a

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Speaker 2: majority years the camera bubble and near one hundred percent. Right,

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Speaker 2: you know, people like Marrying Springle Enterprise and Manaderi and

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Speaker 2: that they've become very strongly out when we had the

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Speaker 2: problems early this year because of the listening to grog

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Speaker 2: bands and the cash debit card lifting and that. So

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Speaker 2: they were strong, but they were silent, and so we

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Speaker 2: need we need those type of strong representatives and women too.

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Speaker 2: That they had amazing incredible women Indigenous women and that

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Speaker 2: and that, and so you know, we need to be

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Speaker 2: listening to those voices on the ground and get out

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Speaker 2: of the canber bubble and start doing the job that

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Speaker 2: we have to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Laurren, before I let you go this morning, I

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Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of Indigenous Australians this

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Speaker 1: morning who are feeling pretty upset.

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Speaker 3: What do you say to them?

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Speaker 2: Look, look, I understand your feelings and understand where you're

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Speaker 2: coming from, because you know, I've been in that position

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Speaker 2: when we have been through election campaigns and voting campaigns

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Speaker 2: where you lose and you put your heart and soul

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Speaker 2: and strong beliefs into it. Uh, And you know you

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Speaker 2: I understand the hurt that you have and that you

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Speaker 2: know you asked for us a week of rest and

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Speaker 2: recovering that, and I think you should take advantage of

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Speaker 2: that if you are having some mental health issues and

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Speaker 2: that please please please call your doctors or call you

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Speaker 2: the Avisual Medical Service or other service and reach out

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Speaker 2: for that help because it does help, and it's and

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Speaker 2: helps you undergrade the recovery. And then of course after

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Speaker 2: all that, you know, have your rest, let's you know,

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Speaker 2: let's get together next week and let's get things moving, Lawren.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel as though the vote on the weekend?

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Speaker 1: I know that again for some people, they are feeling

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Speaker 1: like it's a rejection of indigenous people and the recognition

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Speaker 1: for Indigenous people. Do you think that that is the

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Speaker 1: case or do you think that this is more a

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Speaker 1: rejection of the way that the federal government handled things.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, look, there's no doubt that the government. It

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Speaker 2: was a rejection of the what the government, how it

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Speaker 2: presented it. Everyone knows that they broke every rule of

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Speaker 2: how you win a referendum. You know, no referendum has

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Speaker 2: ever got up without bipartisan support. You know, they just

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Speaker 2: presented a package to the opposition and said do you

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Speaker 2: take it or leave it? That's not about bipartisanship. You

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Speaker 2: have to sit down and work with people and gave

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Speaker 2: through that journey of what it's about. And of course

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Speaker 2: you know the idea when the prime is to come

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Speaker 2: out and call people chicken middles and everything like that.

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Speaker 2: You don't insult other people. You actually got to take

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Speaker 2: people on that journey. And they're the two powerful messages

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Speaker 2: that come out of how you win a referendum. And

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Speaker 2: they didn't have a constitutional convention. They should have had

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Speaker 2: that where they brought everyone together and worked together to

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Speaker 2: make things happen. So there are some things that the

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Speaker 2: government have to look at and how they went down

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Speaker 2: this area. But the good news from the voters was

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Speaker 2: that they sent a clear message to the politicians and

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Speaker 2: the people in power that they want practical, strong outcomes

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Speaker 2: that improved the lives of Indigenous people and education and

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Speaker 2: health and housing and infrastructure and everything else. They want

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Speaker 2: it fixed, and they want it fixed now. And that

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Speaker 2: was one of the clear messages that come out of campaign.

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Speaker 1: Well, Warren Mundine, I really appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for speaking to me and the people

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Speaker 1: of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure and my honor to have me there.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much.