1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Today's episode is another my favorite Tip episode where I 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: go back to interviews from the past and I dig 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: out the thing that was my favorite tip, like the 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: thing that I got out of the interview that really 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: impacted or resonated with me. Today's extract is from my 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: chat with Ashtosh Priyadashi. Ashatosh is the founder of Sansama 7 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: and a graduate of hy Combinator back in twenty nineteen, 8 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: the very famous incubator at Silicon Valley. So Sinsama is 9 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: a daily planner for elite professionals that helps you plan 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: out a focused work day by pulling together your tasks 11 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: from all of your tools. Ashatasha spent most of the 12 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: last decade building and launching productivity hardware and software, and 13 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: his personal goal is to build products that help us 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: navigate our work and life mindfully and intentionally. And I 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that Ashutosh is as much 16 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: as a productivity nerd as I am. 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: So in this extract of my chat with Ashutosh, we talk. 18 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: About how he uses artificial time constraints to significantly boost productivity, 19 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: which I found fascinating. So let's head on over to 20 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: my chat with Ashutosh something else that I know that 21 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: you apply in your working life and think about is 22 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: Parkinson's Law. And for those that are not familiar with 23 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: Parkinson's Law, it's basically saying that the task will stretch 24 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: to as long as the time that you give it. 25 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: So if you have a report to write and you've 26 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: blocked out an hour in your diary to write it, 27 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: it will. 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: Take an hour. Same thing applies to meetings. 29 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: And I want to know how do you think about 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: Parkinson's Law in your own working life and how do 31 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: you apply it. 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: I think one of the most interesting applications I've found 33 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 3: for Parkinson's Law is to basically pick almost insanely small 34 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: time periods for certain things and try to force your 35 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 3: problem and solution into that space. So one of the 36 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 3: things that we did in the really early days of 37 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 3: building Sinzama is that we started operating on Twoday sprints. 38 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 3: So basically what we would do is we were a 39 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 3: really small team at the time. There was just four 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 3: of us, So on Monday we would say like, Hey, 41 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 3: these are the Monday morning We're going to build. Each 42 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: of us would say, hey, these are the things I'm 43 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: going to build, and we would sort of demo it 44 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: and ship it to like our production website by Tuesday evening, 45 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: and then Wednesday morning we would repeat the same process 46 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 3: and demo it to the team on Thursday afternoon and 47 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 3: then ship it. And the really interesting thing was, basically 48 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 3: we gave ourselves this kind of like two days. It was. 49 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: It was really like a day and a half to 50 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: make progress, and a lot of really interesting things happen. 51 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 3: One we figured out ways to take what we thought 52 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 3: were really hard problems and just break them down into 53 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: things that could be done in two days. So a 54 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: very practical example was we wanted to build integrations with 55 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: other services, and usually the development time on something like 56 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 3: that is just a lot longer, and so we were 57 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: sort of forced to find really creative solutions to how 58 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: can we make our users and customers get the value 59 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: of having kind of an integrated experience in the app 60 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 3: in a way that it's something we can build in 61 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 3: two days. And so we kind of used Parkinson's law 62 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 3: to force us to one think of new ways to 63 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 3: solve the problem and not and basically get our engine 64 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: of iteration moving really fast so that we could learn 65 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: a lot faster. Yeah. 66 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: I like that a lot because typically people think about, 67 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, the classic like Google design sprint which is 68 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: five days and then doing that in a day and 69 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: a half ready to ship. I think that's that is 70 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: a really cool application of Parkinson's law. When you were 71 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: talking about that, I I was thinking, you know, in 72 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: my own life, like just that challenge of going, okay, 73 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: can I get this task that could take hours actually 74 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: done a whole lot more quickly. And something I do 75 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: every week is I'll generally be writing a column or 76 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: an article or something like that for some media publication. 77 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 2: That tends to be a weekly task that is on 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: my list to do. 79 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: And I know myself, I know that I could easily 80 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: spend hours doing that, but typically when I'm time boxing 81 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: my diary and essentially setting a meeting with myself to 82 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: write the article, I'll generally keep it to one hour, 83 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: sometimes ninety minutes. 84 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: And I'm almost like surprised that. 85 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: Oh, hang on, no, I can do that, And it 86 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: just forces me to be very focused and work very 87 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: hard and get it done. 88 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: So I can absolutely relate to that. 89 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: I think that's like one of the most important things 90 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 3: you can kind of keep in mind when you're also 91 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: sort of planning out your day is when you say like, hey, 92 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: I think I can do all this stuff in like 93 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: seven hours, you kind of start off the day then 94 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 3: feeling like, hey, if I stay focused, I can get 95 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 3: this all done, which is it kind of gets the 96 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 3: like the flywheel of motivation inside of you going. And 97 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 3: so for like the same thing, even on like a 98 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 3: small scale, when you're like, hey, I'm gonna get this 99 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: done in an hour, you actually get it done in 100 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 3: an hour. And if you didn't have that sort of 101 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 3: almost artificial time constraint that you had created for yourself, 102 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 3: you just you kind of move through the task with 103 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 3: a bit more passivity than you would have otherwise, and 104 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: it's like you're making that commitment to yourself and you're 105 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: almost kind of challenging yourself like hey, can I do this? 106 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: And I think a lot of sort of really kind 107 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: of effective and productive behavior comes from setting basically like 108 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: a goal or something to kind of strive for when 109 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: you're working towards something like that. 110 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: And now I imagine that there are probably listeners going, yeah, look, 111 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: that's all well and good, but what about the myriad 112 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: of distractions, particularly digital distractions that are out there and 113 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: pulling our focus away? 114 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: From the task. What strategies have you found. 115 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: Most effective to help keep those digital distractions in check 116 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: and not get lured in by them. 117 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: This might sound crazy, but I've just learned to embrace 118 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: them and live with them and use them and kind 119 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 3: of be okay with them. And instead of focusing my 120 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 3: energy on what I don't want to do, ie, don't 121 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: check Twitter, don't check Facebook, don't check YouTube, don't check slack, 122 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: et cetera. I try to just put all of my 123 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 3: energy and kind of focus on what do I want 124 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 3: to do and be very sort of intentional and focused 125 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 3: about that. And what I find happens is when I 126 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: say something like, Hey, here's what I want to get 127 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 3: done today, and then I also tell, you know, my colleagues, 128 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: Hey guys, this is what I'm planning to get done today, 129 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 3: I sort of just naturally kind of focus my time, 130 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: energy and attention on my work and the things that 131 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 3: I actually want to do, and I just spend less 132 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: time on whether it's Twitter or whatever other kind of 133 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 3: digital distraction because I have this like I'm sort of 134 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: motivated to do what I said I was going to do, 135 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: if that makes sense, And so it's not like I 136 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: don't check those things at all. Now I do, but 137 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: I'm able to just kind of push it aside and 138 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: get back to what I want to do because I 139 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: have that kind of goal and that commitment both to 140 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 3: myself and to the people I work with. 141 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: That is it for today's show. If you want to 142 00:07:58,480 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: listen to the. 143 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: Full episode, I link to that in the show notes, 144 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: so you might want to check that out. 145 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: And if you. 146 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: Are enjoying how I work, I would be so deeply 147 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: grateful if you just take five seconds out of your 148 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: date to leave a review in Apple Podcasts. It might 149 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: be a star rating or a few words, and by 150 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: doing so, it helps other people find the show and 151 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: it also brings a huge smile to my face. So 152 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: thank you to the hundreds of people that have left reviews. 153 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: It is so deeply appreciated. 154 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: So that is it for today's show, and I will 155 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: see you next time.