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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. So delighted to.

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Speaker 2: Have a special guest with me on the Happy Families

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Speaker 2: Podcast today, Doctor Katrina Lions. Katrina is the CEO of

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Speaker 2: Act for Kids, a charity that helps keep kids safe,

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Speaker 2: heal from trauma, and lead happy lives. Katrina is also

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Speaker 2: a registered psychologist. And the rest I'm talking with Katrina

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Speaker 2: today is a recent survey that was conducted by Act

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Speaker 2: for Kids caught my attention. I thought it was absolutely

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Speaker 2: fascinating and it's something that every single.

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Speaker 1: Parent needs to hear.

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Speaker 2: The report or the campaign is called get Comfy Switching

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Speaker 2: on by switching off, Doctor Lynes, So good to have

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Speaker 2: you on the Happy Families Podcast. Thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 2: What was the number one eye opening finding from this

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Speaker 2: research that you did with Australian families.

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Speaker 3: Australian children, Hi, Justin, were the most worrying?

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Speaker 1: Was it?

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Speaker 3: Forty percent of kids age fourteen to eighteen don't actually

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Speaker 3: speak to anyone if they're worried, so they don't talk

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Speaker 3: to anyone, which is really concerning.

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Speaker 2: So when I hear you say that nearly half of

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Speaker 2: kids who are in their mid to lateeens, they're just

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Speaker 2: shutting the world out. I think of the sullen, cranky, withdrawn, terrified,

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Speaker 2: worried teen who just goes into their room and stairs

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Speaker 2: to screen, rather than engaging with life, engaging with parents,

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Speaker 2: engaging with a school counsel or a teacher, a somebody

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Speaker 2: that they can lean on. Am I getting that right?

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Speaker 2: What are they doing if they're experiencing challenges in their

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Speaker 2: life and they're not talking to somebody.

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Speaker 3: Well, that they don't talk to anybody, and that that's

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Speaker 3: actually really scary, as you say, because they're bottling up

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Speaker 3: all of those emotions, all their worries, and they're making

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Speaker 3: everything bigger in their head. As you know, if you

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Speaker 3: don't talk to somebody and you know, try and get

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Speaker 3: out those worries and it all amplifies in your head.

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Speaker 3: And so our concern is that they're you know, they're

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Speaker 3: brewing mental health problems down the track. That's really what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So you've worked as a rich psyche for plenty of years,

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Speaker 2: how often would you see this in a clinical setting?

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Speaker 2: So someone comes in, they're really struggling and you just

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Speaker 2: find out that they've got no one to talk to,

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Speaker 2: or rather maybe it's that they've chosen not to talk

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Speaker 2: to anyone.

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Speaker 3: It's actually really common in a clinical setting if somebody

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Speaker 3: ends up coming through the door, it's usually precipitated by

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Speaker 3: you know, a crisis or someone said to them, you

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Speaker 3: need to go and talk to somebody, or something's happened,

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Speaker 3: because they'll have you spent a long time sitting ruminating

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Speaker 3: on something. So it is quite common.

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Speaker 2: And this is that thing where they're ruminating and it

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Speaker 2: kind of turns into a catastrophe, doesn't It's there's so

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Speaker 2: much build up, so much, so much angst, so much.

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Speaker 1: Unknown going on.

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's has for young people as well. They've

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Speaker 3: got all these pressures of you know, school and friends

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Speaker 3: and social media and a whole host of things happening.

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Speaker 3: And so there may be something small and solvable or

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Speaker 3: some emotions that they're feeling that if they talk to

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Speaker 3: somebody and their emotions are acknowledged, then the feelings go away.

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Speaker 3: They can help, you know, an adult can help them

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Speaker 3: manage it. But they're bottling all that up. Then it does,

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Speaker 3: it becomes big in their head.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So here's a really tough question. The forty percent

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Speaker 2: of kids who are talking to no one, no one

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Speaker 2: at all. How many of them have somebody to talk

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Speaker 2: to but they're choosing not to talk to them. And

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Speaker 2: how many of them just don't have someone they feel

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Speaker 2: that they can talk to. They feel like their parents

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Speaker 2: will shrug their shoulders and say, I'll get over it.

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Speaker 2: Stop being silly, You'll be fine. This is all in

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Speaker 2: your head, So they're concerned about criticism from their parents.

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Speaker 2: How many of them are in those two different situations.

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Speaker 3: So there's nearly ten percent of them who say they

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Speaker 3: have no close adult to talk to at all. Well

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Speaker 3: of the whole sample. And the problem and where we

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Speaker 3: came up with the campaign switching off to switch on

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Speaker 3: for kids is because most kids say they don't listen.

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Speaker 3: They're close adult doesn't listen. So sixty percent of them

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Speaker 3: say that they sometimes or maybe listen. Only thirty percent

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Speaker 3: of kids say they're close adult always listens to them.

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Speaker 3: So that's the trick. They probably have a close adult.

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Speaker 3: And the kids who do talk to someone, the first

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Speaker 3: person they talk to, sixty five percent of them say

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Speaker 3: their friends. Then six four percent of them say their

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Speaker 3: parents or their careers, and then thirty three percent say

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Speaker 3: their sibling, so they do talk to their parents like

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Speaker 3: it's almost the same percentage as friends. But there's a

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Speaker 3: percentage of kids who don't believe their close adult listens

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Speaker 3: to them, and so they give up. I think, what's.

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Speaker 2: The outcome when children believe that either that close adult

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Speaker 2: either A isn't there at all, or B is there

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Speaker 2: but just doesn't listen and therefore doesn't care. What sort

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Speaker 2: of out comes do we see from a research point

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Speaker 2: of view, and what sort of outcomes do you see

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Speaker 2: act for kids when those adults are not perceived as available.

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Speaker 3: Well, kids feel unloved or uncared for. They don't feel

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Speaker 3: like they're worthy of someone listening to them and their problems.

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Speaker 3: They end up with those problems amplified in their heads,

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Speaker 3: and so they do end up with depression and anxiety.

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Speaker 3: And we're seeing significant increases in young people in our

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Speaker 3: services with depression, anxiety, and just general stress and worry

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Speaker 3: since COVID, like it increased in COVID and hasn't gone away.

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Speaker 2: I wrote a report just the other day, and I

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Speaker 2: can't remember the name of the research that I lent,

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Speaker 2: only I wish I had access to it right as

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Speaker 2: we're talking. But while I was doing this research for

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Speaker 2: this report, it indicated that prior to COVID, around about

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Speaker 2: fifteen percent of adolescents were showing up with anxiety disorders

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Speaker 2: and anxiety challenges. Since COVID, we've seen that escalate to

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Speaker 2: somewhere around twenty to twenty five percent for boys and

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Speaker 2: as much as forty to forty two percent for girls. Like,

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Speaker 2: the numbers are just astonishingly high over the last couple

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Speaker 2: of years. When I'm listening to what you're saying, Katrina,

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Speaker 2: it also reminded me of the classic Emmy Werner studies,

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Speaker 2: the sociologists who went to that Hawaiian island and studied

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Speaker 2: everybody in a certain community for about forty years. And

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Speaker 2: the number one finding that she uncovered as she did

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Speaker 2: all of her research was at the very core of resilience,

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Speaker 2: at the very core of avoiding maladaptive coping strategies. The

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Speaker 2: stuff that kept kids in school, the stuff that kept

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Speaker 2: kids in good relationships, the stuff that kept them out

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Speaker 2: of jail and off drugs. The stuff that mattered the

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Speaker 2: most was that they had a close significant adult that

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Speaker 2: they could talk to, whether it was a parent or

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Speaker 2: a swim coach, or a church leader, or a school teacher,

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Speaker 2: or a counselor, or a neighbor or a grandpa or

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Speaker 2: an artie or an uncle.

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Speaker 1: They just had to have a close adult that they

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Speaker 1: could talk to.

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing in your research that we've got nearly half

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Speaker 2: of Australian children, at least half the kids in the

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Speaker 2: sample a representative Australian sample that are saying I can't

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Speaker 2: talk to anyone.

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Speaker 1: They're not present for me. Am, I getting that.

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Speaker 3: Right, absolutely, And that's why we were really really worried

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Speaker 3: because we're seeing those increased rates in all of our

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Speaker 3: services of anxiety and stress and very interested in what

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Speaker 3: supports children and young people have. And you know, to

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Speaker 3: have forty percent of kids saying they don't talk to

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Speaker 3: anybody is really really concerning because down the track they

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Speaker 3: could end up with significant mental health issues. And certainly

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Speaker 3: they're you know, they must be struggling, sleeping and you know,

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Speaker 3: just going through their day and coping in le So

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Speaker 3: having that close ad of is someone who helps you

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Speaker 3: learn to cope and co regulates your emotions and you know,

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Speaker 3: the problem shared is a problem. Halved is actually a

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Speaker 3: really true, saying, you know, just talking about it and

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Speaker 3: having it out in the open, you realize, oh, this

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Speaker 3: maybe not as big as I thought it was. If

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Speaker 3: somebody acknowledges it and your feelings.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a couple of questions for you to

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Speaker 2: get really practical around this. The first one is a

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Speaker 2: lot of parents will be listening to this and saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: I try, I'm there, Like I asked the kids, what's

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Speaker 2: going on? Can they talk to me? And they just

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Speaker 2: shut me out. As as a psychologist, what's your advice

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Speaker 2: to parents who have kids who don't seem to be

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Speaker 2: willing to communicate even though the parent is present, available

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Speaker 2: and wanting, begging for that conversation.

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Speaker 3: That's really hard, especially if you're going to start with

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Speaker 3: a pointed question, oh is everything okay, because like you know,

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Speaker 3: kids are just going to go yep, you know, no

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Speaker 3: worries at all. What we've been advocating for is to

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Speaker 3: people to start with small talk, because if you start

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Speaker 3: with small talk and you build it into every day incidental,

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Speaker 3: side by side things, so in the car when you're

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Speaker 3: getting dinner ready together, you're you know, making lunches, you

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Speaker 3: all that kind of thing. So they're not the deer

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Speaker 3: in the headlights and you're pinning them with the question,

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Speaker 3: you know. So the more you do that and actually

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Speaker 3: show that you're listening to them, so you're not on

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Speaker 3: your phone, you're not answering the email, you're not thinking

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Speaker 3: five days ahead to what's for dinner or where who's

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Speaker 3: going when you know all of those things, because kids

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Speaker 3: can tell when you're not listening. So it's those incidental

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Speaker 3: things and connecting in with them. And so kids are

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Speaker 3: on their devices all the time now, so you can

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Speaker 3: just check in with them and go, you know how

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Speaker 3: you going just thinking of you just a simple text

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Speaker 3: or a meme that shows them that you're thinking of them,

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Speaker 3: and just trying to build that small talk connection, because

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Speaker 3: if you've built the small talk connection and you do

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Speaker 3: things with them, then if there's a big talk that

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Speaker 3: needs to happen, the kids will feel like you're listening

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Speaker 3: to them and will actually talk to you.

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Speaker 2: Katrena, I was in the car the other day with

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Speaker 2: one of the kids. She was in a bit of

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Speaker 2: a poppy mood and Taylor Swift came on Spotify and

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Speaker 2: I looked at her and said, oh, can you believe

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Speaker 2: we tried for three days to get tickets and we're

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Speaker 2: not going.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't get tickets.

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Speaker 2: And she looked at me roller eyes and said, I'm

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Speaker 2: so sad, and I just I was because I've damaged

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Speaker 2: my body recently, which I've shared on the podcast, with

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Speaker 2: my neck and my back and the breakages of practices whatever.

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Speaker 2: The physiotherapist said something recently that was all about my body,

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Speaker 2: but it applies so much to what you've just described.

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Speaker 2: He said, we need to keep our body moving. Motion

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Speaker 2: is lotion. And I kind of feel like what you're describing,

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Speaker 2: this idea of just getting some small talk going, it's

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Speaker 2: the same concept. Motion is lotion.

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Speaker 1: Once you get that little bit of small time.

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Speaker 2: Happening, it can build into a more substantive conversation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and showing you enjoy spending time with kids,

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Speaker 3: like my kids are grown up now, but I just remember,

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Speaker 3: you know, some chaos phrenetic getting food ready or packing

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Speaker 3: lunches or you know, all that kind of stuff, and

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Speaker 3: just feeling frazzled and thinking through all the fifteen things

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Speaker 3: that I had to keep in my brain and kids

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Speaker 3: just pick up on all that. And so if you

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Speaker 3: just try and I don't know. It's really hard to

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Speaker 3: do as a parent, and so I'm not preaching to

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Speaker 3: people how to do it, but practical stuff is saying, Okay,

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Speaker 3: the next fifteen minutes, we're just going to hang together

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Speaker 3: and we're going to put all of that over there,

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Speaker 3: and no one's going to look at it. You know,

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Speaker 3: all think about it and devices, and you just try

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Speaker 3: and build it in with rules around. Okay, this is

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Speaker 3: just us to hang.

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Speaker 2: Get comfy, switching on by switching off. Really, it comes

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Speaker 2: back to this saying that I've been using for a

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Speaker 2: couple of decades now. It's not mine. I don't know

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Speaker 2: who invented it. It's been around for a long time.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to give attribution, but it's just one of

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Speaker 2: those sayings that are part of the part of the atmosphere.

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Speaker 2: To a child, love is spelled time, and that's really

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Speaker 2: at the core of what you're saying. These kids are

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Speaker 2: saying they need it. Oh, I've got one more question

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Speaker 2: for you. In the survey, you asked a question about

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Speaker 2: how much time these fourteen to eighteen year olds want

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Speaker 2: to spend each day with the adults in their lives.

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Speaker 2: Can you just talk about that for a moment.

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Speaker 3: I know this blew us away one to two hours

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Speaker 3: per day.

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Speaker 1: So what were their options.

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Speaker 2: They could choose from zero up to a certain number

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Speaker 2: of like four or five, six, seven hours.

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Speaker 3: It was less than half half an hour, one to

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Speaker 3: two hours, more than two hours, and none. So twenty

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Speaker 3: eight percent of kids said more than two hours. The

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Speaker 3: majority of kids said one to two hours, and hardly

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Speaker 3: any kid said none or less than half an hour.

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Speaker 3: Just blew us away, because so they're really craving time,

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Speaker 3: and the time they said that they wanted to spend

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Speaker 3: was just hanging out together or chatting in the car,

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Speaker 3: or chatting while we're doing things. We gave them a

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Speaker 3: list of options about when they would want their adult

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Speaker 3: to listen to them, so they're really clear they just

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Speaker 3: want to hang out with the close adult and have

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Speaker 3: the opportunity for that person to listen to them.

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Speaker 1: I love this finding.

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Speaker 2: I mean it flies in the face of everything that

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Speaker 2: people have always said about teenagers. They're moody, they're someone

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Speaker 2: they don't want to hang out with the adults they're

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Speaker 2: supposed to separate from their parents, And here we've got

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Speaker 2: fourteen to eighteen year olds saying if I could spend

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Speaker 2: one or two hours every day with my parents, i'd

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Speaker 2: be spoked.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Quarter of them, more than a quarter them want

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Speaker 3: more than two hours. Yeah, which is just outstanding. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I mean they don't want you to sit and

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: Not looking for the meaningful conversation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. They doesn't want that. They just want

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Speaker 3: to be able to do stuff together.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Katrina Lyons is the of Act for Kids, a

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Speaker 2: charity that helps keep kids safe, heal from trauma, and

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Speaker 2: lead happy lives. The new report the new campaign get

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Speaker 2: Comfy Switching on by Switching Off. We'll link to it

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Speaker 2: in the show notes. Katrina, what a delightful conversation. We

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Speaker 2: so appreciate you spending some time with us on the

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Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast to talk about something that I think

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Speaker 2: we'll give a whole lot of parents of adolescents a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of hope.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Justin.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for

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Speaker 2: more and fol about making your family happier, check out

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Speaker 2: the show notes for the details of Act for Kids,

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Speaker 2: or visit us at Happy Families dot com dot au.