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Speaker 1: You've got ten minutes between now and your next meeting.

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Speaker 1: You probably can't achieve anything with that time, so you

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Speaker 1: may as well scroll through your social media or do

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Speaker 1: a bit of online shopping. But stop right there, because

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Speaker 1: this short window of time is actually a great opportunity

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Speaker 1: for a micro habit. Most people think that if it's small,

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Speaker 1: it's not worth doing. But Holly Ransom has built an

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Speaker 1: enormous career by intentionally squeezing every second out of her day.

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Speaker 1: Give Holly ten minutes and she is going to do

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Speaker 1: an energy audit and fill those ten minutes with something productive.

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Speaker 1: And she needs to because for Holly, no two weeks

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Speaker 1: look the same. As a writer, fulbright scholar, and CEO,

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Speaker 1: Holly has delivered a peace charter to the Dalai Lama

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Speaker 1: was Sir Richard Branson's nominee for Wired Magazine's Smart List

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Speaker 1: of Future Game Changes to Watch, and she was also

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Speaker 1: awarded the US Embassy's Eleanor Roosevelt Award for Leadership Excellence

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, and Holly was also the co chair

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Speaker 1: of the g twenty Youth Summit in twenty fourteen. Is

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Speaker 1: the youngest director to have been appointed to an AFL

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Speaker 1: Club and was also personally requested by Barack Obama to

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Speaker 1: interview him on stage back in twenty eighteen. She's pretty impressive.

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Speaker 1: So how does Holly use microhabits as a secret weapon,

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Speaker 1: and how has she attracted some of the world's most

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Speaker 1: successful people like Richard Branson to be her mentor? And

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Speaker 1: how does Holly implement phone free Fridays. My name is

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Speaker 1: doctor Amantha Imbat. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder

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Speaker 1: of behavioral science consultancy Inventim. And this is how I

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Speaker 1: work a show about how to help you do your

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Speaker 1: best work. So let's start by hearing about how Holly

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Speaker 1: goes about setting goals for herself.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 3: I love it, love when anyone's at the point of

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Speaker 3: thinking about goals. I firstly am so excited anytime anyone

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Speaker 3: talks about it because I think it's such a powerful

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Speaker 3: tool to be able to get whatever it is that

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Speaker 3: we're seeking to try and achieve. And for me, normally

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Speaker 3: I go about an end of year goal setting process,

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Speaker 3: so I'll often spend some time at the end of

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Speaker 3: the year, which is nice and reflective. Some people do

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Speaker 3: it at the ends of financial years as well, but

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Speaker 3: there's just to reflect on whatever period I've been working

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Speaker 3: to so I'm typically doing a year, and I'll think

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Speaker 3: about what were the highs, what were the lows, what

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Speaker 3: were the things I learned, what are the things, if anything,

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Speaker 3: I'd like to change moving forward, And so that's often

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Speaker 3: I think that reflection is a really important part of

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Speaker 3: the goal setting piece, because if we don't do that,

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Speaker 3: it's really hard to get clear on or to have

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Speaker 3: goals grounded in some sense of the context of what's

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Speaker 3: just been. So after I've done that, I'll often draft

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Speaker 3: up goals and I typically try to do them in

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Speaker 3: a couple of different facets of my life, so I'm

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Speaker 3: not just thinking about goals professionally. I think about goals

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Speaker 3: in the context ofationships, my health, and fitness, trying to

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Speaker 3: be really well rounded. And that's something that I certainly

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Speaker 3: didn't do as well ten years ago as I've come

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Speaker 3: to learn the importance of certainly nowadays. And then after

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Speaker 3: I've kind of set those goals and I typically one

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Speaker 3: of the things I definitely used to do is write

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Speaker 3: a lot of goals. I'd be one of those people

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Speaker 3: that would have like a spreadsheet. It's so embarrassing. I

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Speaker 3: sort of cring reflecting back on it even as I

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Speaker 3: tell you this story, and I've come to understand the

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Speaker 3: power of having a few that you focus on, and

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Speaker 3: typically you know a handful of those stretch goals, and

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Speaker 3: then ones that are more kind of within sight. So

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Speaker 3: I'll often have one or two things that are really

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Speaker 3: pine the sky I'm aiming for if I managed to

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Speaker 3: shoot the lights out that might come true, and then

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Speaker 3: things that I guess conceivable but are still a really

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Speaker 3: great stretch result within things that I'm already working on,

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Speaker 3: no I'm committed to, So that's my process. I then

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Speaker 3: sit and reflect on them, so I typically kind of

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Speaker 3: put them somewhere I see them, And that's one of

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Speaker 3: the biggest things I'd stressed goal setting. It's not just

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Speaker 3: the power of thinking a goal. It's taking it a

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Speaker 3: step further and writing it down. It's then taking it

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Speaker 3: a step further than that and putting it somewhere you

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Speaker 3: see them every day. And then I think the fourth

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Speaker 3: step that even cements that with more power is sharing

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Speaker 3: it with people that you love and that you care

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Speaker 3: about you in order that they can help you stay

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Speaker 3: accountable for them. So that framework that we wrap around

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Speaker 3: our goals is actually I think one of the most

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Speaker 3: important parts of making sure goals work for us.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear an example of maybe one of

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Speaker 1: your career goals for this year that we're in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one, which we all thought would be such a

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Speaker 1: smooth sailing year with COVID behind us, but no such luck. Like,

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Speaker 1: what's an example of a goal that you set this year?

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Speaker 1: And I'd love to know how that came to be

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Speaker 1: a goal? Like, how did you I even identify that

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Speaker 1: that was something that mattered to you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, great question.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things I'm working at the moment,

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Speaker 3: I've just launched my first book, The Leading Edge, and

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Speaker 3: that book is really regarding a new approach, a new language,

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Speaker 3: a new set of examples on leadership. So it's all

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Speaker 3: about wanting to disrupt the way that we talk about

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Speaker 3: and teach leadership and doing so.

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Speaker 2: Through sharing these diverse stories.

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Speaker 3: And case studies and the toolkit of leaders who are

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Speaker 3: out there being the change that they want to see

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Speaker 3: in the world. And I think one of the things

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Speaker 3: that's emerged from not only the process of writing that book,

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Speaker 3: but then being in conversation with people at yourself menthor

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Speaker 3: and others who are passionate about, you know, that development

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Speaker 3: getting the best out of ourselves individually and collectively. Is

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Speaker 3: that there's support structures that we need to build around that,

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Speaker 3: because it's not just about the ideas, it's how do

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Speaker 3: we create the environments that support the implementation. And so

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Speaker 3: for me, you know, a new kind of professional goal

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Speaker 3: that's come out of that, and I'm still in the

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Speaker 3: process of kind of calibrating and seeking mentors and kind

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Speaker 3: of advice on is what can I do now that

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Speaker 3: that book is launched, that those ideas are out in

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Speaker 3: the world, what's kind of the business model and the

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Speaker 3: support structures that I can help build for people that

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Speaker 3: can assist with bringing these ideas to life and that

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Speaker 3: can help us democratize access to leadership development. That's what

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Speaker 3: I'm really passionate about. So that's a new goal at

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Speaker 3: the moment that I'm working on that emerged effectively out

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Speaker 3: of having more questions and observations at the end of

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Speaker 3: the process of actually writing the book.

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Speaker 1: And do you quantify your goals, like is there a

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Speaker 1: target attached to what you've just described?

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Speaker 2: There not at the moment.

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Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes I find targets are really helpful. This

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Speaker 3: is more embryonic at the moment in terms of the

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Speaker 3: way that that's formulating up. I think maybe it's at

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Speaker 3: the moment it's a purpose that's becoming a goal as

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Speaker 3: opposed to being something that I've got a really concrete

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Speaker 3: sense of how to quantify.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's a really important point.

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Speaker 3: Like when we get taught smart goals at school, we

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Speaker 3: know that it needs to be specific and measurable and

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Speaker 3: attainable and all that stuff, and often that comes with

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Speaker 3: being able to quantify something. Sometimes it's better to have

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Speaker 3: a landing target, so like a rough area that we're

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Speaker 3: aiming for, as opposed to you know, a yes, no

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Speaker 3: light switch where if we either make the goal or

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Speaker 3: we don't make the goal. So sometimes binary goals can

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Speaker 3: be a little bit all or nothing. Doesn't mean you

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Speaker 3: don't shoot for them, but it might means you want

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Speaker 3: to have some other ones that you know, there's a

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Speaker 3: you know, that whole notion of if you shoot for

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Speaker 3: the moon, even if you land amongst the stars, that's

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Speaker 3: a great outcome. So for me, that will be something

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Speaker 3: I might quantify up in time and at the moment,

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Speaker 3: like for example, with the book you know, for me,

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Speaker 3: the goal was writing the book. It was not then

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Speaker 3: about selling X number of copies, because I'm a big

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Speaker 3: believer in focusing your goals on what you can control,

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Speaker 3: and in that instance, I can control writing the best

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Speaker 3: possible book. I can doing as much work to finesse it,

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Speaker 3: to ensure that it's got really rich stories, it's written

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Speaker 3: in a compelling way, you know, putting it through the

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Speaker 3: lens and perspective of friends and colleagues who read it

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Speaker 3: to offer their feedback and taking that on board. And

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Speaker 3: then once it's down in the world, I cannot control

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Speaker 3: how the world receives it. So I've done my best

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Speaker 3: on writing the product, and the goal was getting out

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Speaker 3: the best possible book can on hard I could release,

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Speaker 3: and now the world will do what the world wants

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Speaker 3: with it.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting and that's quite helpful for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm midway through, maybe a little bit over midway through

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Speaker 1: or first draft of a book that's been released in

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Speaker 1: July next year, and yeah, and I'm trying to think

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Speaker 1: about the next twelve months and certainly finish the book

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Speaker 1: and submit that on time.

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Speaker 3: Well, they feel like huge goals, don't they Like, even

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Speaker 3: in of itself.

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Speaker 1: I know, absolutely, But then it's interesting because I was

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Speaker 1: thinking ahead to mid next year and going, well, what's

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Speaker 1: my goal like when it comes to selling the book

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Speaker 1: and promoting the book through my publisher? And it's interesting,

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Speaker 1: So how have you then thought about that in terms

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Speaker 1: of going, Okay, well, this is in my control. This

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Speaker 1: is not in my control. But you obviously want the

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Speaker 1: book to have impact, otherwise you wouldn't have written it.

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Speaker 1: So how do you then conceptualize goals around that.

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Speaker 3: One of my goals has been about how do I

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Speaker 3: get like I'm quite focused now on how do I

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Speaker 3: get the community that is sort of already because these

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Speaker 3: juggernauts that come with publishing books and you'll know this

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Speaker 3: all too well, but it's sort of It does a

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Speaker 3: lot of the I guess marketing for you, and I

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Speaker 3: think to some degree people then see that and they

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Speaker 3: self identify as that being a sort of content or

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Speaker 3: topic that they want to engage with or they don't.

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Speaker 3: And you hope that to be as broad a field

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Speaker 3: as it possibly can be. But I think my goal

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Speaker 3: is then around how do I try and meet those

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Speaker 3: people who are finding the material and wanting to engage

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Speaker 3: and help them take the ideas forward. So one of

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Speaker 3: the things that we've shared what the day of the

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Speaker 3: book released is we're turning the book into an interactive

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Speaker 3: challenge that people who are reading it can sign up

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Speaker 3: to start on September one. And so a lot of

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Speaker 3: my work at the moment is actually going into taking

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Speaker 3: the content and building it into a model where people

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Speaker 3: can start to experiment and play with the ideas. And

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Speaker 3: so my goal is, now, can I get a small

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Speaker 3: percentage of that population who are reading the book to

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Speaker 3: on the journey of trying to implement the book. And

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Speaker 3: so that's where my thinking is moved to and my

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Speaker 3: focus area is moved to. And I think the other

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Speaker 3: one is just I mean, and it sounds trite to

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Speaker 3: say it, but I'm sure you'll feel this about your

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Speaker 3: material too.

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Speaker 2: Every time you get an email or a.

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Speaker 3: Bit of feedback, and I've been lucky in the handful

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Speaker 3: of days that's been out for a couple of people

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Speaker 3: who have already generously taken the time to do this.

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Speaker 3: Every time you get an email or a note from

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Speaker 3: someone saying, oh my gosh, this really impacted me, or

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to tell you how much reading this

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Speaker 3: particular chapter has really given me ideas that have challenged

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Speaker 3: the way I'm thinking about the way I'm leading, or

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Speaker 3: the business I'm running, or whatever it is. It truly

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Speaker 3: emotionally impacts you. And that is why you want this

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Speaker 3: book out in the world, and the hope that one

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Speaker 3: person is able to further empower what they're doing by

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Speaker 3: virtue of something that you've shared and written about. So

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Speaker 3: the goal for me is is hoping it to find

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Speaker 3: those people, but then also helping, i think, mobilize the

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Speaker 3: learning that's in the book into this kind of active

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Speaker 3: community and supporting them on their learning journey because they're

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Speaker 3: the people that are hungry to go and do the work.

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Speaker 3: They're buying the book, they're resonating with the ideas, and

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Speaker 3: that's where my goals will focus at the moment.

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Speaker 1: I like that way of framing it, and I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: like the with the emails that you receive from people

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Speaker 1: that your work is having an impact on, Like, I

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Speaker 1: can definitely relate to that, and I get a lot

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Speaker 1: of feedback, particularly from listeners of the podcast, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm very quick to just go, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: so lovely, archive, Like what do you do with those notes,

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Speaker 1: Do you do anything with them, or sit and reflect

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Speaker 1: on them for a while? What's your approach.

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Speaker 3: It's an interesting comment to think about more broadly, like

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Speaker 3: in terms of just how we take stock of those moments,

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Speaker 3: because I think, particularly in the busyness of the world

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Speaker 3: as it is right now, it's really easy to your

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Speaker 3: point there, to kind of not come up for air

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Speaker 3: and just keep powering through. I think they always impact me,

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Speaker 3: like in the moment of reading, particularly those that are

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Speaker 3: really specific or where the nature of what someone's written

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Speaker 3: is obviously really heartfelt and really considered, not just hey,

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Speaker 3: great read or.

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Speaker 2: Something like that.

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Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong, that's so wonderful to hear too,

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Speaker 3: But I think particularly those where someone has really engaged

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Speaker 3: or it's very clear that an idea or a story

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Speaker 3: has really profoundly had an impact or shaped them, and

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Speaker 3: that's very clear in the way they write the note.

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Speaker 3: I find them particularly powerful, and you know, putting them

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Speaker 3: in that folder that is kind of not only something

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Speaker 3: that you can go back to as a reminder, but

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Speaker 3: also in those moments where you know it all gets

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Speaker 3: a bit hard, or you're feeling like maybe there's more

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Speaker 3: naysayers than there are supporters.

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Speaker 2: You know, we all have those moments right.

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Speaker 3: Where we're challenged or feeling overwhelmed or not quite sure

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Speaker 3: how it's all going to come together next.

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Speaker 2: I think I use them in those moments. I'm a

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Speaker 2: words person.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things we talk about in the

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Speaker 3: book is this concept of love languages, and so I

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Speaker 3: am one of those people where of the five definitely

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Speaker 3: words mean the most to me of anything. So it

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Speaker 3: is really significant to me just in general sense. I

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Speaker 3: know that's not true for everyone who are maybe more

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Speaker 3: about acts of service or gifts or other love languages,

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Speaker 3: but so it does definitely have an impact, and I

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Speaker 3: think they are something I find myself coming back to

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Speaker 3: as a as a way of taking stock and sort

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Speaker 3: of I guess already energizing in those moments where I'm

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Speaker 3: feeling a little bit flatter, a little bit challenged.

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Speaker 1: So do you file those notes somewhere so you can

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Speaker 1: dip into Yeah you do? Hey, right, that's super cool.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me. I had Professor Scott Sunshine on the

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Speaker 1: show quite a while ago. He co wrote Joy at

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Speaker 1: Work with Murray Kondo, the person that helped many people

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Speaker 1: clean out their homes. Yes, and he talked about having

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Speaker 1: a spark joy folder literally on his desktop, so he

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Speaker 1: would you know, put like, you know, positive feedback from

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Speaker 1: like journal papers that have been reviewed, you know, nice

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Speaker 1: feedback from students, those sorts of things. So it would

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Speaker 1: be this folder and it would be ever changing. He'd

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Speaker 1: updated quite regularly that he would just go to when

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Speaker 1: he wanted to feel a little bit of joy in

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Speaker 1: his life, like, Yeah, what do you do with this fold?

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Speaker 1: I see it's a digital folder.

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Speaker 2: Or no.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because I mean I'm saying this and I

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Speaker 3: should have you know, said it probably in answer to

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Speaker 3: your first question, but it's probably that example that just

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Speaker 3: made me think about it. You know, I'm sitting talking

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Speaker 3: to you from my office and I've got a little

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Speaker 3: window in my office and along the window so is

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Speaker 3: a row of cards from really important people in my

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Speaker 3: life that have, you know, messages of support and encouragement

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Speaker 3: that mean a lot to me. And every time I

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Speaker 3: look at the card, I know who it's from. And

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Speaker 3: you know, there's probably a couple times a week where

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Speaker 3: I end up inadvertently reading one or two of them

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Speaker 3: more or intentionally going and picking it up and on

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Speaker 3: my desk looking at me every day is a letter

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Speaker 3: from my partner that just means the world to me.

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Speaker 3: And so that's something that I read every day in

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Speaker 3: terms of taking stock and reminding me why I do

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Speaker 3: what I do. So they're physical in the way that

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Speaker 3: they impact my environment as much as they are you

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Speaker 3: know in that folder in my email or you know,

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Speaker 3: on the desktop for that matter, in that I can

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Speaker 3: go back to them as a broader archive as well.

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Speaker 2: So it's a little bit of both.

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Speaker 3: I actually hadn't thought about the physical piece, but I'm

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Speaker 3: looking around my office going, oh, I've set it up

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Speaker 3: that way too.

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Speaker 1: That is that is super cool. That's so funny. It's

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Speaker 1: actually it's the opposite of something I did many years

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Speaker 1: ago when I was I was like twenty two or

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Speaker 1: twenty three, and I was in the middle of my

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Speaker 1: PhD and procrastinating.

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Speaker 3: I love how casually you just roll that out twenty

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Speaker 3: two twenty three doing my PhD.

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Speaker 1: I that's a humble brag, isn't it. My god bet,

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Speaker 1: it's just because like I was, you know, not socially

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Speaker 1: cool enough to take a gap year and go traveling.

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Speaker 1: I was just a study nerd. But I was also

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Speaker 1: like I was working as a musician at the time

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Speaker 1: and trying to get a record deal as a really

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Speaker 1: good way to procrastinate from writing a you know, eighty

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Speaker 1: thousand word thesis. And so I remember I had this

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Speaker 1: goal where I wrote to a bunch of record labels

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Speaker 1: and sent off my demo, and I had this goal

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Speaker 1: that I would want to cover this particular wall in

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Speaker 1: my bedroom in rejection letters before I could even hope

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Speaker 1: to get an acceptance of a record deal. So kind

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Speaker 1: of the opposite, like a rejection wall, like.

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Speaker 3: Almost a red rad to the bull, though, like in

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Speaker 3: the sense of sort of you know, keeping stock of

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Speaker 3: like everyone like that's a little you know, you read

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Speaker 3: stories and you know, obviously the famous one is JK Rowling,

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Speaker 3: but I was reading one about the I think it

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Speaker 3: was the producer or the writer who wrote the TV

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Speaker 3: show Pose, which has just finished four seasons, where it

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Speaker 3: took one hundred and twenty nine no's to get it. Yes,

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Speaker 3: for anyone to read the screenplay and think about making it,

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Speaker 3: so I can see the motivational factor of like if

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Speaker 3: I just keep at it, and there's somebody to be

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Speaker 3: said for that, right, Like that whole notion that ninety

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Speaker 3: percent of life is just showing up, like if you

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Speaker 3: just keep at it consistently, and if that's a motivational force,

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Speaker 3: which I think for a lot of people it is,

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Speaker 3: that idea of I'm going to prove you wrong. We'll

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Speaker 3: see how you feel when I one day get the yes. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I see the power of that for sure.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I also see the power of actually putting

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Speaker 1: positive things around as well. Anyway, Now I know that mentors.

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Speaker 1: You've mentioned mentors, and I know that they have played

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Speaker 1: such a pivotal role in your life and your career. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I want to know, like, how do you start

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Speaker 1: those mentor relationships? How have they started for you?

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Speaker 3: I always feel like this topic needs a disclaimer, right

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Speaker 3: because when we use the word mentor, like I feel

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Speaker 3: like so many people have this baggage associated with that

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Speaker 3: word because it either like it immediately takes us to

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Speaker 3: a really formal notion of what a mentor is, or

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Speaker 3: we all remember that one time, at some point in

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Speaker 3: our life, often in a company where we took our

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Speaker 3: first job or something we got matched in that you know,

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Speaker 3: internal mentoring program and someone just jammed you together with

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Speaker 3: someone else and like that was meant to work and

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Speaker 3: I think that's why we've often got to reclaim what

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Speaker 3: mentoring is and kind of stuper back and go just

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Speaker 3: don't even think about it like that, or you'll probably

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Speaker 3: never start. But you're right when it comes to kind

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Speaker 3: of the biggest contributions to my growth and development, like absolutely,

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Speaker 3: you know, people who've been willing to give up their

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Speaker 3: time and share from their life lessons have been like

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Speaker 3: just absolutely fundamental to that. So for me, it always

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Speaker 3: starts from a place of seeking learning, not seeking mentoring,

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Speaker 3: which I think is helpful because it lowers the barrier

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Speaker 3: to entry and it takes some of the pressure off

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Speaker 3: both sides. All you're asking for originally is half an

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Speaker 3: hour or maybe an hour of someone's time, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's so important that you know why you're asking

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Speaker 3: for it and that you can articulate that to someone.

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Speaker 3: I've got people that I would love to meet, but

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Speaker 3: I still don't have questions worthy of their time, and

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Speaker 3: I won't ask for their time until I've got good

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Speaker 3: enough questions. So I think that's really important for people listening,

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Speaker 3: Like don't go scatter gun, don't just reach out to

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Speaker 3: everyone and anyone saying hey, i'd love you to be

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Speaker 3: my mentor think about what am I working on, you know,

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Speaker 3: relative to what we were talking about earlier.

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Speaker 2: What are my goals?

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Speaker 3: What are the gaps maybe in the part of the

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Speaker 3: how I'm going to achieve my goals that I still

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Speaker 3: don't understand. Who can I go and talk to that

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Speaker 3: might be able to help me knit this plan together?

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Speaker 3: Or maybe that I deeply admire because they've gone and

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Speaker 3: done what I kind of want to do, And maybe

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Speaker 3: if I could sit down and learn from them about

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Speaker 3: how they did it, I could help, you know, create

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Speaker 3: the plan for how I go about making my idea

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Speaker 3: or my impact happen as well.

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Speaker 2: So go and seek that learning.

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Speaker 3: And it's in that conversation if you've got the right

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Speaker 3: dynamic that I think there's the opportunity to extend it.

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Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is you kind of

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Speaker 3: leave those conversations. You go, oh my gosh, I barely

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Speaker 3: scratch the surface with this person, Like I have ninety

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Speaker 3: more questions I want to ask them. I can't believe

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Speaker 3: the time has passed already. And you feel this level

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Speaker 3: of connection where they're not patronizing you, there's an openness

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Speaker 3: to sharing, so they're prepared to be quite candid and

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Speaker 3: honest where you turn around and go geez, I'd really

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Speaker 3: get benefit out of a longer or an ongoing conversation

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Speaker 3: with this person. And I think in that moment, there's

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to go, hey, I would it be possible

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Speaker 3: if after I've taken all the advice that you've given

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Speaker 3: me today and applied it, if I circle back to

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Speaker 3: you with some more question or if I came back

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Speaker 3: and asked for a bit more.

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Speaker 2: Advice or help. So that would be the way I'd

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Speaker 2: approach it.

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Speaker 3: To think about learning first and then make sure you've

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Speaker 3: got the right dynamic. And it's also very okay if

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Speaker 3: someone says no. You don't want someone saying yes that

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Speaker 3: then doesn't have the time to be available for you

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Speaker 3: when you need it. So don't be worried about that.

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Speaker 3: You will find those people, but start by focusing on

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Speaker 3: frequently having learning conversations.

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Speaker 1: Hello there. We will be back very soon with Holly

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00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: hearing about how she makes that initial request for a

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00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: conversation really stand out given that she's reaching out to

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00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: incredibly busy and high profile people, and we'll also hear

443
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: about why and how Holly does energy audits of herself. Now,

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00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: if you're enjoying how I work, you might enjoy something

445
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: else that I do. So every two weeks, I send, write,

446
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: and send a newsletter about three things that I'm loving.

447
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: So they might be gadgets and software or pieces of

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00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 1: research that I've come across, or other things that I'm

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00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: really loving. So if you would like to receive that

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00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: in your inbox every couple of weeks, go to howiwork

451
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 1: dot co. That's how I work dot co and pop

452
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: your email in and you'll get something in your inbox shortly.

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00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 1: I want to know, though, like, how do you make

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Speaker 1: that initial kind of request standout? Because I imagine that,

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Speaker 1: like you're someone that's probably inundated with people approaching you

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Speaker 1: to be a mentor, So how do you think about

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00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: it in the reverse when you're reaching out to someone

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Speaker 1: to make them kind of take notice?

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Speaker 2: I guess there's two things.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I definitely do a lot of reach outs

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00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 3: where I don't know people, and so it's a cold

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00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 3: reach out, but it always helps if someone can make

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00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: the reach out for you. So if you know someone,

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00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 3: and this is where tools like LinkedIn are really handy,

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00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 3: and you can work out how your a couple of

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00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 3: degrees removed from someone. If someone can make that introduction

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00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 3: for you, then it does become a lot easier to

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Speaker 3: at least open a conversation up with that person. I

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00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 3: think the second thing I'm always conscious of is I'm

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Speaker 3: very prepared to wait. I know a lot of the

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Speaker 3: people that I'm reaching out to have extraordinarily busy schedules,

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Speaker 3: and so I'm more than happy to make a time

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Speaker 3: that is six months from now, or to come back

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Speaker 3: in a few months after they've finished a busy work

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00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 3: period or writing period or a project's finished and say, hey,

476
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 3: just me again, wondering if you might have time available now.

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Speaker 3: So I also think it's really important to be respectful

478
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Speaker 3: of the diary of the person that you're reaching out to,

479
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 3: and the hustle is absolutely on you to do it

480
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 3: politely and appropriately, but there's no expectation of them doing

481
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 3: the follow up. You need to be the one that,

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00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: if you're serious about it, you know you won't drop

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00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 3: off the radar. In three months, you'll be back saying hey,

484
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 3: you know, I hope you don't mind me. Just wanted

485
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 3: to see how you're going and whether there's an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to get something in the diary in the next month.

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Speaker 1: Now, micro breaks and micro habits, I know this is

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Speaker 1: something that you think about. Can you talk to me

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00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: first to about micro breaks, what you're doing there to

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Speaker 1: manage your energy during the day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been obsessed for a long time with this idea.

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Speaker 2: Of managing energy, not managing time.

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Speaker 3: And at a basic level, I think that starts for

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00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 3: people with the idea of doing an energy audit and

495
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 3: actually seeing, you know, in a day to day, in

496
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Speaker 3: a week to week, what is it that energizes you,

497
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: what is it that trains you, And also just being

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Speaker 3: conscious of your body's natural rhythm. Some of us are

499
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 3: naturally mourning people, other of us are absolutely night ours.

500
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 3: And then thinking about how you match activity to energy.

501
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: So you want to be doing your creative activities or

502
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 3: things that really require the best of you at times

503
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 3: where you're high energy, you want to be thinking about

504
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 3: things that don't require that much energy, maybe getting through

505
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 3: all those rapid replies to emails and putting that at

506
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,719
Speaker 3: points of the day where you don't necessarily have as

507
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 3: much energy because you probably don't need as much. And

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00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 3: then on top of that, there's sort of this really

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Speaker 3: encouraging area of science that's sort of saying we have

510
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 3: actually the found ability through very small interventions to make

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00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: massive changes to our energy. And so one of the

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Speaker 3: people I interview my book, doctor Jamie King, is one

513
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: of the pioneers of this space in Australia really looking

514
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: at because I think sometimes the reason we don't manage energy,

515
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: or the reason it's sometimes hard for us to think

516
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 3: about this, is we always think it has to be

517
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 3: big to be significant. If I can't go to the

518
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 3: gym for an hour, it's not worth doing. If I

519
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,959
Speaker 3: can't meditate for twenty minutes and get zen, it's not

520
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 3: worth doing. Whereas a lot of the science now is saying, actually,

521
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: you can stop and you can take ten proper deep

522
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: breaths and you will see a physiological change. You can

523
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 3: get up and you can go for a walk, even

524
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 3: just around the floor of the building, go around the

525
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: block of the house, and you will see a physiological change.

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00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 3: You can jump up and out on the spot, you know,

527
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 3: and do jumping jacks and you'll see a change. So

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00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: for me, some of the things I've been starting to

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Speaker 3: factor into my days is just how do I take

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Speaker 3: some smaller breaks like that. So I absolutely get up

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Speaker 3: multiple times a day and go for a walk around

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Speaker 3: the block and I'll do when I feel myself hitting

533
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: an energy low, and it's an intervention that takes all

534
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: of five minutes and I come back more energized and

535
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Speaker 3: ready to go.

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00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: Can you talk about, like how do you do an

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00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: energy audit, and like what are some other changes that

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00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: you've made to like how you structure your day and

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00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: when you do certain tasks.

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Speaker 3: An energy audit for me is as simple as get

541
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: a notebook and have a page where you just write

542
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: some bullet points of things, being curious about your energy

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00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 3: and what you observe.

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Speaker 2: So I know.

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Speaker 3: Naturally I'm a really very much high energy in the morning.

546
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: I absolutely hit a wall in the kind of mid

547
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Speaker 3: to late afternoon. I'm just a no go between about

548
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 3: like three thirty and five or three and five, like

549
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 3: it's a really dead zone for me, and then I

550
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 3: have this incredible burst of energy and kind of the

551
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: mid evening again as well. And so it's changed the

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00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 3: way that I think about structuring my days because, for example,

553
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 3: I try to make sure I never get up and

554
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: get straight on an email. And that was something I

555
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: learned from you know Stephen Covey seven Habits of highly

556
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: effective people. You know that learning that difference between urgent

557
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 3: and important and making sure that the urgent doesn't take

558
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 3: the place of the important. So when I get up

559
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: and I've got energy to go, I want to be

560
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 3: putting into things that are important. They're going to be

561
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: stuff that are to do with my goals, that are

562
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: going to help me step towards things that really matter

563
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 3: to me. They're things that I've got to put a

564
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 3: lot of thought into. Maybe it's a proposal for a

565
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 3: new idea. Maybe it's thinking through how I could structure

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00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 3: up a collaboration with someone I'm really excited about working with.

567
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: But it's not going to be sitting through my emails,

568
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: or it's not going to be choosing to audit my expenses.

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Speaker 2: Or something like that.

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00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: You know, they're going to be things I know I

571
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: have to do them absolutely, but I'm going to try

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00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 3: and do them at points in the day where I've

573
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 3: got a natural kind of energy low, or I'm not

574
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: needing as much of kind of the energy I bring

575
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: to bear on other topics or need to bring to bear.

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00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: On other topics.

577
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 3: I think the other thing I've noticed is, you know,

578
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: and this is true of what we've learned for some

579
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: time about attention spans and stuff like that. Like I

580
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: do see that I'm at the end of ninety minutes

581
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 3: often needing just a little bit of a perk up

582
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 3: and a reboot. So that's where I've started inserting these

583
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 3: micro brakes, whether it is as simple as I'm going

584
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: to do ten jump squads, like literally in the room

585
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: I'm still in, just to re energize and shake my

586
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: body awake. Sometimes if it's been a particularly you know,

587
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: intense like cerebral meeting, or I'm just feeling a little

588
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 3: bit drained mentally, I'll sit there and I'll do ten

589
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 3: deep breaths, you know where one of those Apple watches

590
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 3: where it can do them for you, or it can

591
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 3: guide you through them in terms of the ease of

592
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 3: doing that. So just finding those little ways of intervening

593
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 3: in those moments, because all of us have got things

594
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: in the day.

595
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: That do drainers. We can't avoid any of that.

596
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: It's about how we strategize and put these things around

597
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 3: that so that we can re energize ourselves and come

598
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 3: out of those loves and we don't need red bulls,

599
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 3: and you know, the three point thirty eightis snacks and

600
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 3: things like that to do it, because oftently, all we're

601
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,959
Speaker 3: doing there is is kind of numbing a sensation our

602
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 3: body is trying to tell us and using kind of

603
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 3: an artificial way of kind of pushing through it. So

604
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: thinking about how to actually start to be the energy

605
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 3: for ourselves. It's just been a really profound way that

606
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: I've shifted managing my day and week in the last

607
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 3: six years probably, and I couldn't be more happy with

608
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 3: the results, and I couldn't be a bigger believer in

609
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: this idea.

610
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: Now when I think of you, Holly, I'm like, it's

611
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: hard to imagine you having these low energy periods because

612
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: I feel like you're such a high energy, high achieving person.

613
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: But what do you do to switch off or relax?

614
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: Do you have rituals or practices around that?

615
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, And it's something I have historically. Like I say,

616
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: this is something that I've learned in my more recent history,

617
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 3: so the last five or so years. It's definitely not

618
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: something I was all that good add in my sort

619
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: of early twenties, So it's been a learned habit and

620
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: something I've come to understand that if you don't look

621
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: after yourself and you don't really properly recharge that productive

622
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: downtime where you're actually allowing yourself to restore, you're very

623
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 3: hard to do anything at any timekind of intensity, for

624
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: any serious length of time. And I guess as well

625
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: as a stats on what we see about burnout probably

626
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: suggest a lot of us are struggling with the same thing.

627
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: You know, For me switching off, I've become a lot

628
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 3: better at it, and I think it's the great intervention

629
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 3: of my partner.

630
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: We're really good about.

631
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 3: Not letting work blur into the evenings and really safeguarding

632
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: our weekends, and I think that's been really good, the

633
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: discipline and the accountability we give each other in that

634
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean every now and again something urgently pops up, sure,

635
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: but on the whole weekends, a weekends weekends of a

636
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: quality time there for friends, there for being active, there

637
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: for getting out and being part of whether it's sport

638
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: or cultural events. We try and make sure that their

639
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: time out so that when we start Monday again, we're

640
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 3: really hitting the ground running with the energy that we

641
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: need for that week ahead. I think one of the

642
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: other things we've been playing with this year that I've

643
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: found really beneficial is phone free Friday nights, which sounds

644
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: so silly, but that idea of the discipline of switching

645
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: off from a week, putting the phone down at five

646
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 3: o'clock and not turning it on till Saturday morning, and

647
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 3: just that absence of notification, that ability to properly switch

648
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 3: off because the work week isn't continuing to linger into

649
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: your Friday night and then you know, spill over into

650
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: the weekend. I've just really enjoyed that complete disconnect from tech.

651
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,479
Speaker 3: You know, it's only for what it would it be,

652
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: I guess eighteen hours or something like that we really turn.

653
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: It off for. But that's been fantastic.

654
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: So I encourage people to find little ways of putting

655
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 3: tech breaks into because we've just found that to be

656
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: really beneficial and you just realize how how connected.

657
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: You out of the thing the rest of the time.

658
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 3: So that ability to properly disconnect has been a great one.

659
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: That's nice thing you've got someone to keep you accountable.

660
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: I like that idea, and like, what are you doing

661
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: with tech? Like are you literally shutting it down and

662
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: locking it away or how do you resist the temptation

663
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: to just go oh, I really wouldn't mind just taking

664
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: a quick chick of email or something like that.

665
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean we' we'd allow ourselves to watch

666
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: TV because that can be part of you know, Friday

667
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: night zone out. But we don't use laptop or phones

668
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: or anything like that. So for me, I just put

669
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: it on airplayed mode, turn it off, and you know it,

670
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: put it or put it on its charger in a

671
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 3: different rooms. I put it downstairs in the house, disconnected

672
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: from it. Honestly, it's one of those funny things too,

673
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: I actually have found and it's a really interesting thing.

674
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: To be curious about yourself. For people who are up.

675
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: For trying this, I actually find it quite a relief.

676
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: I'm quite happy to turn it off on a Friday night,

677
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: so I don't ever feel this compulsion to go oh,

678
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 3: I might want to check that. I think I'm like, oh,

679
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: thank gosh, I get to I get the excuse almost

680
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: or I have the discipline of having to put that

681
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: away because I've made a commitment to myself and my

682
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: partner that's what we're doing. So it's an interesting one

683
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 3: as well, because I think sometimes we don't actually realize

684
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: how much of a great joy or just kind of

685
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: freedom it is to be disconnected for a period of time.

686
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: I mean, Matith, I know you've come for space, like

687
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: you know, that whole community, and that intentional idea of

688
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: you know, disconnecting in order to connect is really quite powerful,

689
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 3: and we don't often have space for it. I mean,

690
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: how many of us sit in meetings during you know,

691
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: the week where and now it's all happening on Zoom.

692
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: But even on Zoom, you're watching people clearly writing emails

693
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: while they're in a Zoom meeting, or they're on their

694
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: phone texting, and they're not actually present in anything. We're

695
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: so connected, we're pulled in every different way, and I

696
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: don't think many of us have actually experienced for some

697
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 3: time the joy that it is to be fully present,

698
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: because it's so hard. Our world is geared for us

699
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 3: not to be now without our intentional discipline to do

700
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: it another way.

701
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: So true, Gosh, I was on a Zoom call this

702
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: morning with three other people, and it's just so frustrating

703
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: and obvious when people are not focused on the meeting

704
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: and they're doing something else. What do you do in

705
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: those situations? Out of interest? Do you call people on it?

706
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: Or like, what do you do?

707
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 3: It's interesting, Like one of the things I had not

708
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: paid all that much attention to until I went back

709
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: to school to do my masters two years ago, where

710
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 3: there was a really big culture around setting group norms,

711
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: was I hadn't actually thought about how important it is

712
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: to set the norms.

713
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: So I guess the rules of the group.

714
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: Up front, because just because you know, when you start

715
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: seeing that behavior, people aren't really sure necessarily where the

716
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: line of acceptability is. And if you haven't actually clarified

717
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: that it's not okay for people to sit on email

718
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: or to be inattentive, or to turn the camera off

719
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 3: when they want to go eat lunch or something like that,

720
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: you know, it becomes really hard to create a sense

721
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 3: of group culture. And you'd be so much better place

722
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: with your work to talk about this than me. But

723
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 3: I think one of the really powerful things I've come

724
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 3: to realize is certainly, you know, every time you shift context,

725
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: and you know, in the instance of all of us

726
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 3: being thrust online and being stuck in this virtual space,

727
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: it's so important to create rules and also to explore

728
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: what that looks like for people because if we're going

729
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: to say okay, you can't be turning your camera off

730
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: to go and you know, get yourself lunch. It's so

731
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: important that we understand that not everyone can sit through

732
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: five hours on Zoom NonStop. So we've got to have

733
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: rules about how long different bits of content go, or

734
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: how regular we take little breaks so people can reenergize

735
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: and go have a comfort break or whatever they need.

736
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: Now, speaking of settings, something that has always impressed me

737
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: about you, Holly is just how kind of like effortless

738
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: you are. It seems effortless when I see you at

739
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: events talking to people having meaningful conversations, Like it just

740
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: seems so confident and you know what to say, and

741
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: I want to know, like what's going through your head?

742
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: Like what do you feel you do differently from other

743
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: people in those kind of event and conference sort of situations.

744
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: Well, thank you.

745
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: Firstly, that's very generous.

746
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 2: I don't know that I.

747
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 3: Do anything all that differently. I think I'm always interested

748
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 3: when people come together and we get the good fortune

749
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 3: to be at some really interesting events with different confidences

750
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: and things that we speak at. It's such an incredible

751
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: learning opportunity. You know, you're so often I feel this

752
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: all the time, like so lucky to be in the room,

753
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: be it virtual or in person, with people that just

754
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 3: have these really interesting areas of study and application. And

755
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: I always, I think, just come from this disposition of curiosity,

756
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 3: Like I'm always eager to understand what people are working on,

757
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 3: why they pick the work that they do, And so

758
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: I think I always just see it as like what

759
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: a smaller is board, you know, I get this opportunity

760
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: to go and connect and ask questions. So I think

761
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 3: it comes from that framing. I think so much of

762
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 3: life is about how we frame things to ourselves and

763
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 3: the story that we tell ourselves. And I always tell

764
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 3: myself the story of what incredible opportunity to be curious

765
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: and to learn, and that's the way that I try.

766
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 2: And approach those events.

767
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: And I think when you come from that disposition, I

768
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 3: guess you know, your question was sort of talking about confidence,

769
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 3: and I guess the only connection I can draw to

770
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: that idea of confidence is because you're coming from a

771
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: place of curiosity, You're not coming from a place of comparison.

772
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because I feel like so many

773
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: people are inwardly focused in terms of their self talk

774
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: at events and conferences and things like that, and worried

775
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: about what people think. But I like what you've described

776
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 1: in terms of it's very external or other focus, which

777
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: I feel is a great way just to remove the nerves.

778
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

779
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 3: And I remember once when I did an improv class,

780
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 3: the instructor said, nerves are selfish and I was like, Ooh,

781
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: that's like a really hard to wrap your head around

782
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 3: idea when you know, certainly at that point of my life,

783
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: you know, got nervous quite a bit, or there are

784
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: certainly a lot of environments I get nervous in. And

785
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 3: his point was that when we are nervous, we're focused

786
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 3: on ourselves, when we're actually focused on who we're delivering

787
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: for or who we're showing up for. And having tried

788
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 3: and applied this thought quite actively for many years now,

789
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 3: I can see what he means. When we're focused on

790
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: who we're serving and who we're trying to show up for.

791
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: Be therefore, it really does change the nervous piece. Like

792
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: I've found that it is far less a part of

793
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: my day, and when I do see myself getting nervous,

794
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: I've in some way started to think about myself again.

795
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: I have a couple of other questions for you, Holly.

796
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: Now I know that you are a voracious reader. I'd

797
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: love to know, like, what have been in two or

798
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: three books that have had the biggest influence on how

799
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: you think about work and career working career?

800
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: Okay, I think definitely one I already mentioned Stephen Covey.

801
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: It's a classic, But Seven.

802
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: Habits is just a foundational book that I think everyone

803
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: should read. I really have enjoyed from a leadership standpoint,

804
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 3: there's an amazing she does the US presidents, but the

805
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 3: way that she writes about them, I think she's the

806
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 3: best sort of leadership biographer out there. Actually, there's maybe

807
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: two of them. Walt Isaacson, who wrote a brilliant one

808
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 3: on da Vinci that's worth reading, and then Doris Kerns Goodwin.

809
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 3: Her book on leadership where she chronicles the lives of

810
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 3: four different presidents through four different periods, is brilliant and

811
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 3: as a number of her individual ones.

812
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 2: So I think for those who want.

813
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 3: To kind of historical read on leadership and to think

814
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: deeply about people like Lincoln and like, that's a really

815
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 3: good one. The other one that I've really enjoyed and

816
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 3: it's top of mind, probably because it's the one I

817
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 3: read most recently. Is Untamed by Glennon Doyle. Really different

818
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: to those books I've just described previously, but very interesting

819
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: in its vulnerability, and she has such a powerful way

820
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 3: with language. She is a kind of delicious turn of

821
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 3: phrase with the way she writes. It's such an easy read,

822
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: but it's also just so about that idea of letting

823
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 3: go of the shackles of what other people might tell

824
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 3: you to be, want you to be, and that notion

825
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 3: of really stepping out after yourself. And I think for

826
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 3: anyone in particular who's listening that might be at a

827
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: decision point or an inflection point in their life and

828
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 3: think about what's next.

829
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: It's a really powerful book through her own personal.

830
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 3: Journey that provides some really interesting flodder for kind of

831
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 3: personal reflection.

832
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: So that's probably a third.

833
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: Now my final question for you, Holly, for people that

834
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: want to consume more of what you're doing and get

835
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: their hands on a copy of The Leading Age, your

836
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: new book, what is the best way for people to

837
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: do that?

838
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, thank you.

839
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: I mean you can get a copy of Leading Edge

840
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: of probably booked Topi is your best bet. Or Amazon,

841
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: or you can check out bookstores too, but certainly I

842
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 3: imagine people listening this through a device, so that might

843
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 3: be easiest. And then if you want to connect, I'd

844
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: love to reach out on any social media platform. I'm

845
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 3: on all of them, and also you can subscribe on

846
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: my website Hollyransom dot com. We've got two newsletters we

847
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: send out twice a week. One Love Mondays, which is

848
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: like a positive way of punctuating your Monday mornings, just

849
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: a three minute shortshot read to help you energize for

850
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: the week, and then Easy Tiger on a Friday to

851
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 3: kind of change up the way that we use our

852
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 3: weekends and think about what productive downtime can mean. So

853
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: we'd love for you to sign up to those as

854
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 3: well and be a part of the and ongoing conversation.

855
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: Amazing, Holly, I'm so glad we finally got to have

856
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: this chat. You have not disappointed. You're just like so

857
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: full of interesting ideas and energy. I personally got so

858
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: much out of it, So thank you so much for

859
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: your time.

860
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

861
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: I really appreciate everything that you're doing with this podcast

862
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: and in your world to work too, and it was

863
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 3: awesome to finally get to have this chat, and I

864
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 3: look forward to connecting in person sometime soon.

865
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you got

866
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: some useful stuff out of my chat with Holly. I

867
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: know I definitely did. She's just such a powerhouse. Now,

868
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: if you are not currently a subscriber to How I Work,

869
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: you might want to hit subscribe or follow wherever you're

870
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 1: listening to this from, because next week I have Jamila

871
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: Risby on the show, whose work I've been found of

872
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: for a long time, and we're going to be talking

873
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: about how you can become more resilient when times are tough.

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00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventing with production support

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Speaker 1: from Dead Set Studios. The producer for this episode was

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Speaker 1: Jenna Coder, and thank you to Martin Nimba, who does

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Speaker 1: the audio mix for everything to do with How I

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Speaker 1: Work and makes everything sound awesome. See you next time.