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Speaker 1: Staying on the topic of alcohol, and a number of

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Speaker 1: changes were also made for our Northern Territory Police giving

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Speaker 1: them greater powers to crack down on public drinking, something

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Speaker 1: we have spoken about so often on this show. And

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Speaker 1: joining me in the studio right now, the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Association President Nathan Finn, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katy, good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Finny tell us, will you, I mean, were you

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Speaker 1: quite pleased with the changes that have come in in

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Speaker 1: terms of that public drinking and police now being able

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Speaker 1: to ask for identification.

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Speaker 2: The public drinking was something we asked for. We are

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Speaker 2: specifically for the Minister. We actually wrote to the Minister

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Speaker 2: in relation to that exact same provision, so we're supportive

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Speaker 2: of that coming in. Again the other changes which was

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Speaker 2: obviously introduced at the same time and announced at the

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Speaker 2: same time. I got a phone call at one twenty

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Speaker 2: four that afternoon where I wasn't aware of any other

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Speaker 2: changes that were made. We'd requested the name and address

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Speaker 2: to be able our police officers do the job that

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Speaker 2: they need to do when they're identifying public drinking.

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Speaker 1: So you sound like you're pretty annoyed as well that

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Speaker 1: there was. There was not that consultation that this announcement

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Speaker 1: was going to.

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Speaker 2: Happen, and I'm further annoyed, Katie. We're not being critical

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Speaker 2: for the sake of it. We want to have a

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Speaker 2: positive relationship with the government and real consultation so our

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Speaker 2: members get the support that they deserve. It's just so

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Speaker 2: frustrating and disappointing that we keep getting letting down by

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Speaker 2: this government.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect that this reduction in trading hours at

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Speaker 1: Darwin Bottle Shop so it's going to make a difference

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Speaker 1: or will it just encourage that secondary supply.

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Speaker 2: It's going to encourage the secondary supply. Has these restrictions

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Speaker 2: worked in Ola Springs? Why do we need a fifty

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Speaker 2: extra additional police officer in Ella Springs if these restrictions

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Speaker 2: They've got the biggest restrictions obviously within the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: And is it clearly not working. This BDR is not working.

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Speaker 2: We've seen this through and through before. Again makes a

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Speaker 2: market for the secondary supply. Our chronic alcoholics aren't getting

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Speaker 2: the treatment that they deserve and they're circumnavigating the BDR

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Speaker 2: and they're still accessing alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Do we need to go back to this mandatory treatment.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, we do, we need something in place. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: the health professionals say that didn't work, and we can't

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Speaker 2: prove that. They need to make the decision themselves to

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Speaker 2: improve their health and prove their well being. But again,

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Speaker 2: what else is there to offer the government offering any

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Speaker 2: other solutions. Let's just reduce it and let's have an

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Speaker 2: effect on everyone else, the bottle shop workers and everyone else.

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Speaker 2: Let's equip them with OC spray. Next, we'll give them tases.

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Speaker 2: Next we'll call them start calling on frontline police officers

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Speaker 2: and including them in our numbers.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's something that you know, I know has

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Speaker 1: been raised before that you have got concerns about that,

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Speaker 1: and the concerns you know, around those security guards getting

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Speaker 1: those additional powers that I know police have to have

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Speaker 1: specific training for just on those police numbers.

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Speaker 3: Because I understand that.

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Speaker 1: You spoke to ABC Radio in Alice Springs earlier this

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Speaker 1: morning and said that we've actually got less police officers

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Speaker 1: than what we did at the height of the crime

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Speaker 1: crisis earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct, Katie. I've had a discussion with the

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Speaker 2: executive as of yesterday in relation to this as well.

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Speaker 2: We're given update obviously the promise federal funding when it

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Speaker 2: was announced by the Prime Minister in Alice Springs with

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Speaker 2: the Chief Minister. The additional funding that's rolling into the

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Speaker 2: Northern Churchyard Police Force shows that since that time we're

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Speaker 2: actually three officers less in Alice Springs. And that time

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Speaker 2: when we were deemed to have a crisis then and

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Speaker 2: they promised additional thirty police officers to assist Alice Springs,

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Speaker 2: we haven't seen that equation.

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Speaker 3: How is that possible?

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Speaker 1: I mean the new Police Minister, Brent Potter was saying

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Speaker 1: on the show this morning, you know that they've surged

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Speaker 1: in police and that they're doing what needs to be done.

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Speaker 3: I guess to paraphrase in Alice.

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Speaker 2: Again, Southern region's been under immense pressure for a number

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Speaker 2: of years. A number of our officers are burnt out

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Speaker 2: down there and they're seeking to get out of that

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Speaker 2: place because of the pressures that's being placed on them

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Speaker 2: and being under resource for so long. They need to

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Speaker 2: get out of there and they are trying to get

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Speaker 2: out there in droves, but they cannot. And unfortunately this

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Speaker 2: situation has occurred where the ministers come out and told

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Speaker 2: everyone about these fifty additional police officers, it's going to

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Speaker 2: surge into Southern Command. Again, it was political spin and

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Speaker 2: the political spin doctors have been caught out in relation

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Speaker 2: to this. They're relying on overtime to actually fill these

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Speaker 2: requirements and fill these shifts in ola Springs.

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Speaker 1: So it's actually three officers lease in Olae Springs is

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Speaker 1: what we've got right now.

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Speaker 2: From February when the announcement come through from the Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: There's three officers less than that time when it was announced.

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Speaker 3: So what's going to happen over the summer period.

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Speaker 2: They're relying on overtime to meet the responsibilities and the

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Speaker 2: expectations of the community in our springs, and unfortunately, our

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Speaker 2: members have seen this week already numerous amounts of overtime

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Speaker 2: occurring with no members actually taking it up because they

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Speaker 2: are tired, they are burnt out, they are sicker being

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Speaker 2: the punching bags of this community and they want support

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Speaker 2: from the government.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the changes to the opening hours

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Speaker 1: of bottle shops up here in the top end that

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Speaker 1: has been implemented, Because I know that the Police Commissioner

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Speaker 1: had said in that press conference earlier in the week

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Speaker 1: that it is something that he'd wanted to see and

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Speaker 1: I know that well. The Chief Minister had said that

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Speaker 1: over and over again, that that was something that the

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner had requested. Do you think that they've requested

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Speaker 1: that because they are needing to know to surge the

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Speaker 1: officers to ALUs.

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Speaker 2: Did they also tell you what the Commissioner actually also

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Speaker 2: requested of the government in relation to further obviously limitations

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Speaker 2: on bottle shop hours, establishing where the person's going to

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Speaker 2: be drinking if they haven't got a valid address. He

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Speaker 2: wanted the sales of alcohol not to be sold to

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Speaker 2: those people. There was a number of suite of changes

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Speaker 2: which the government haven't taken his advice on anyone to think,

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Speaker 2: hang on a second. The Commissioner of Police is asking

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Speaker 2: for this. There's a genuine reason why he's asking for this,

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Speaker 2: because he sees the alcohol the harm that does in

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Speaker 2: the community every single day.

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Speaker 1: So you were saying he wants much further changes, but

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Speaker 1: that's not the Northern Territory government have not agreed to that.

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Speaker 2: That is correct.

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Speaker 3: Have you had that conversation.

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Speaker 2: We had that conversation with the commission earlier in the.

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Speaker 3: Week, and so he actually wants that situation.

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Speaker 1: That we've spoken about on air before, where if you

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Speaker 1: don't have an address to be able to drink your alcohol,

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Speaker 1: that you're not sold alcohol.

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Speaker 2: That's correct. That was in a suite of the changes

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Speaker 2: that he recommended back to the government, who in turn

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Speaker 2: is obviously not consulted with the AHA. I've heard Alex

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Speaker 2: spoken to Alex. He's quite frustrated. Again he gets a

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Speaker 2: commitment from the government which backflips on there and no

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Speaker 2: consultation with him. We're saying we don't receive that consultation either,

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Speaker 2: Alex and I believe most of the agencies out there

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Speaker 2: wouldn't receive the consultation that they deserve when they're making

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Speaker 2: significant changes to our work conditions.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel like the Northern Territory government's just tinkering

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Speaker 3: around the edges here?

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Speaker 2: They are tinkering around the edges, they're not dealing with

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Speaker 2: the main issue it cause here. Unfortunately, we see this

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Speaker 2: across all our urban centers in relation to drink public drunkenness.

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Speaker 2: The issue. It affects everyone in the community. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: just affect these people. But again, what are we doing

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Speaker 2: with these people? Where's the health response for these people

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Speaker 2: to deal with the chronic alcoholism that we see day

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Speaker 2: in and day out and actually cripples our community to

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Speaker 2: be able to have a free reign and do what

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Speaker 2: they need to do.

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Speaker 1: Do you think or do you expect to see any

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Speaker 1: kind of reduction, you know, do you think that the

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Speaker 1: reduction in trading ours at those dar and bottle shops

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Speaker 1: is going to make much of a difference.

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Speaker 2: We've seen a difference in Alice Springs when they first

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Speaker 2: obviously had the restrictions there. We've seen that return to

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Speaker 2: the same levels of volume of alcohol rolling out those doors.

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Speaker 2: Now again it'll see a temporary downfall in that, and

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Speaker 2: then we'll see exactly the same amounts when everyone gets

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Speaker 2: used to the different trading hours that the same amounts

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Speaker 2: of alcohol were still flowing back onto our streets. The

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Speaker 2: people on the BDR will still be getting access to alcohol.

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Speaker 2: They won't receiving the treatment that they deserve and the

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Speaker 2: community deserve for them to get. So we're not dealing

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Speaker 2: with these issues as a policing matter on a daily baser. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, Alex Bruce had said the same to

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Speaker 1: us that you know, you're in a situation where people

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Speaker 1: are then going to licensed premises or licensed venues to

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Speaker 1: be able to access alcohol. So when you do want

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Speaker 1: to access alcohol, you're always going to find a way

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask. So in terms of the

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Speaker 1: ID and the police officers now being able to actually

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Speaker 1: request that identification, again, it's something you and I spoke

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Speaker 1: about just a couple of weeks ago and the need

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Speaker 1: for this to happen.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that it's going.

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Speaker 1: To make a big difference or is it going to

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Speaker 1: mean that police could potentially have more administrative sort of

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Speaker 1: burdens to carry out.

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Speaker 2: Again, it's something that the police have been doing obviously.

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Speaker 2: The legislation backing now is that we're ability to ask

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Speaker 2: for their name and address. However, the government's obviously failed

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Speaker 2: to mention that if they don't provide that name and address,

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Speaker 2: that we have a vision to arrest that person. So

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Speaker 2: we're criminalizing that behavior. So they'll have a paperless arrest

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Speaker 2: approach to that where we can actually take them into

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Speaker 2: custody for four hours and actually issue them a fine

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Speaker 2: for failing to give us the name and address. But again,

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Speaker 2: they don't want to criminalize this behavior. But aren't they

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Speaker 2: doing that with that led piece of legislation that just passed.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I suppose, so I wasn't aware of that

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Speaker 1: bit of info. You know, I suppose the other thing

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Speaker 1: is as well, is it is going to mean that

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Speaker 1: there's different pathways for the BDR.

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Speaker 3: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: There needs to be significant change with the BDR. It's

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Speaker 2: a process that hasn't worked. It's still not working. Again,

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Speaker 2: we're putting this stuff in place and relying on stuff

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Speaker 2: that is not working. Let's try something different, Let's try

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Speaker 2: a different approach to how we deal with this matter.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't be a policing response to deal with And

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Speaker 2: again I explained on radio this morning about the ability

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Speaker 2: of the new computer system within the Northern Territory Police,

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Speaker 2: how it's not registering with the BDR at the moment

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Speaker 2: and it's not planned to register with the BDR until

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Speaker 2: March or April next year.

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Speaker 1: Hang on, so how does that work? Is this the

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Speaker 1: new promise system or what is the promise replacement?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the new systems are, which is obviously I

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Speaker 2: worked on it for a extific amount of time, which

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Speaker 2: is sorry for my members that I did actually leave

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Speaker 2: there before it rolled out. But again we're seeing significant

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Speaker 2: delays with that program and significant issues. I was informed

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Speaker 2: again yesterday that we can't actually process these BDRs or

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Speaker 2: these trigger events within our new computer system and that's

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Speaker 2: going to be relied upon in March or April next year.

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Speaker 1: So how are they going to like, how are they

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Speaker 1: going to do anything with these changes that they've announced

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Speaker 1: at this point.

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Speaker 2: Well, they've been told the executive of the Police Force

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Speaker 2: have told them they cannot progress these changes. They're not

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Speaker 2: going to be able to progress these changes till the

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Speaker 2: middle of next year.

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Speaker 3: So is it just a front? Was it just an announcement?

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Speaker 2: Again? I don't know who they're listening to, but clearly

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Speaker 2: they're not listening to the Executive of the Northern Enurgy

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Speaker 2: Police Force either or the Northern Territory Police Associate or

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Speaker 2: the AHA. I'll be interested out there in the public

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Speaker 2: to see who is actually they're consulting with, because it's

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Speaker 2: clearly not the clear stakeholders that have a position at

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Speaker 2: that table to argue for this.

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Speaker 1: Goodness, Mate Finney, we are fast running out of time.

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Speaker 1: I do just want to ask you though we know

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Speaker 1: that there were debate, well there was debate yesterday and

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Speaker 1: also changes yesterday to the police administration Act debated in

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Speaker 1: Parliament late yesterday.

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Speaker 3: How'd it go?

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Speaker 2: From your perspective, We're very disappointed of the government. They

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Speaker 2: didn't listen to us. I sent an email after a

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Speaker 2: conversation with the Minister on Monday night and back basically

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Speaker 2: pleading for him to have some consultation. Unfortunately, he consulted

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Speaker 2: with us on one piece of the legislation which we

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Speaker 2: agreed to with the raising of the retirement age, which

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Speaker 2: was a motion past at our annual conference. But again,

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Speaker 2: all the rest of those provisions we're not consulted with

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Speaker 2: us at all, and I can honestly say that, and

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Speaker 2: for them to mislead Parliament yesterday by saying we had

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Speaker 2: extensive consultation is nothing but a load of shit. Well, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: I am well and truly over this government. When they're

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Speaker 2: talking about me doing something and consulting with them, when

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Speaker 2: I'm not actually doing it. You know what, step up

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Speaker 2: to the plate, come to the party, have this meeting,

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Speaker 2: have these discussions with me. We won't agree on everything,

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Speaker 2: but again we're here to work with you. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to be so defensive of our members and the

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Speaker 2: entitlements that you're actually creating and the burden you're placing

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Speaker 2: on our frontline police officers every day by the poor

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Speaker 2: decisions that you are making as a government.

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Speaker 1: Well, Nathan Finn, I tell you what it sounds like.

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Speaker 1: There is still quite a lot to talk about in

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Speaker 1: this space. No doubt we'll talk to you again very soon.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Katie, and thank you also. Police officers out there,

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Speaker 2: keep doing your doing. We love what you're doing, we

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Speaker 2: love the passion that you serve this community with and

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Speaker 2: we truly take your hat off in these trying times.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Nathan Finn, the president of the Northern Territory Police Association,