WEBVTT - Stan Smith: From Grand Slam champion to fashion icon 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:04.760 No, and welcome did sit down. I'm Vic Christie, managing 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:07.080 editor for Australian Tennis Magazine, and. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:09.760 I'm Metro, a writer and editor for oz open dot 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.280 com and viv Why are we sitting down this week 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:13.240 with Stan Smith? 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.400 Well, Matt, we had the chance to sit down with 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.960 Stan at the Australian Open and most people know Stan 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.599 Smith with the shoe, which is not surprising given there's 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.319 over one hundred million pairs sold. There's been collaborations with 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.960 likes of Pharrell Williams and Stella McCartney. But before he 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.600 was a global brand, he was also a world number one, 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.599 a two time Grand Slam singles champion and a dominant 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.720 doubles player. But Stan also he shaped what it means 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:38.879 to be a player off the court. Stan was one 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.839 of the original players to use tennis as a platform 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.640 for other great things. Was He spoke out against apartheid, 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.120 He set up his own academy, he developed Stan Smith's 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.960 events and even became an author. So he's also a 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.200 former International Tennis Hall of Fame president. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.880 Yeah, we were really lucky to be joined by an 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.800 absolute legend of the sport and all of those things 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.200 you outlined show that just how kind of connected he's 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.640 been to the sport at all levels. And even before 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.680 he came up in the professional era, he was a 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.319 college as well, so he's kind of been there's every 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.480 touch point of the sport he's been connected with, so 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.280 that was really cool. And what was fabulous about getting 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.960 to chat to stand was reminiscing about the golden generation 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.959 of Australian stars that we know and love. They kind 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.520 of were his main rivals and opponents on the court 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.560 of the Major's Adding Davis Cup when his professional career 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:27.120 was starting, so we also got to chat to him 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.479 about that and learned about some amazing memories and rivalries 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:32.600 and moments in his career. 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:38.560 Let's see what he has to say. And we want 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.920 to talk to you about many things today, but including 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.160 your tennis career. So you were a winner of the 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.040 US Open in singles and Wimwooden in singles, which one 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.360 of those titles was the most meaningful for you? 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:54.960 When I was about sixteen, I had four goals. One 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:56.880 was become a member of the US Davis Cup team, 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.560 second was to be the best player in the US, 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.800 third was win Wimbledon, and the fourth become the best 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.440 player in the world, and so I really don't know 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.440 why the US Open wasn't in that, but I think 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.680 it was just because at that age I realized that 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.720 Wimbledon was sort of the big the big one to win. 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:22.320 And certainly even later on my twenties, you know, not 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.519 all the players came here to play in Australia because 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.160 it was right not starting on Boxing Day, and people 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.400 didn't want to leave, you know, home for Christmas. Although 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.280 I think players are doing that now because they've got 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:37.960 to get here in time to be ready for this 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:43.560 tournament's starting. So I don't know the answer to that. 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:45.440 I think it was just that Wimbledon was sort of 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:49.919 the premiere event. You know, it met your one of 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.919 the best or the best if you win it, that 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:56.400 was almost synonymously would be number one before you won. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.360 Wimbled in nineteen seventy two, you played the final against 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.920 a John Newcomb and lost in five sets. It was 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.280 an amazing match. But what did you learn from that final? 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:07.960 Well, thanks for bringing that up. You know, I had 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:14.000 forgotten about it until well, yeah, twelve months, and you 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.720 know I kind of lost a little concentration. John, you know, 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.560 fell one time and kind of fun, you know, playing 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.000 and that he had to hurt his arm and that 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.560 sort of thing. But it made me realize that you've 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.639 got to focus for you know, the whole match, and 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.040 you can't just I had a big lead in two 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:31.760 sets to one and it was etly playing well. I 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.040 thought it was. I even was starting to think about 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:35.960 my speech, you know, for the wind with them ball, 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.920 and by the time I had figured out a pretty 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.560 good speech, I was congratulating for winning the match, right, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.040 So that that was. You know, it's always helpful to 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:46.800 go through and I know Labor went through it lost 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.640 the first time in the finals, and other top players 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.200 done at Newcomb as well, and so it helps to 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.880 go through it. You understand what to expect from yourself, 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.600 what you expect from the media, from your friends, family, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:05.560 and handling all that situation is certainly when you're in 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:10.119 the final, it's very special. So if you haven't experienced 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.240 it yet, once experiencing it and the next time a teaser. 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:16.920 You mentioned of your four goals, one of them was 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:18.440 to be the best player in the world, and you 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.280 manage that in nineteen seventy one. So slightly differently because 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.800 I think rankings like officially were introduced in seventy three. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.480 It was a different system. In seventy one. I think 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:29.920 you were ranked number one by the tennis journalists. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.240 Is that how Yeah, there was a group. I was 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.560 number one and for seventy one and seventy two, so 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:39.680 it was a group of ex players. It really made 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:40.200 that decision. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.120 Okay, oh right, so, and I mean achieving that, like, 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.760 how did that compare? So Wimbledon was one of your goals. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:46.200 You did that. 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.279 Becoming best player in the world that was another goal. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.520 What did it feel like to get officially recognized as 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:52.000 the number one player in the world. 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.960 Well, it was again the combination of those goals that 0:04:56.000 --> 0:05:00.680 I had, and you know, you realize that it's a 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.040 special place in the game to be one of the 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:09.080 number ones. And unfortunately, you know, it wasn't an ATP 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.840 official number one because it started in seventy three. So 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.320 and then I got a little bit of an injury 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.000 in seventy four and that sort of time, and that 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.320 hurt my career to a certain extent. But it was 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.400 special to be able to say, you know, the number 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:27.279 one player in the world. 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.160 It sounds pretty it sounds pretty amazing. Before your singles 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.359 Grand Slams. You have a connection with our tournament that 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.800 you won the nineteen seventy Australian Open in doubles with 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:41.520 Bob Blutz. Yes, and we wondered how that. First of all, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.680 did that mean to be an Australian Open champion? But 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.440 second of all did that double success pave the way 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.120 for your single success in the years that followed? 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.640 Yeah, I did, you know, I started out really doing 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:56.680 well in doubles with Bob in the late sixties early seventies, 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.200 and we won a few doubles titles and when the 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.120 US Open we won. Here we lost the finals of 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:08.120 the French a couple of times, and also at Wimbledon 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.599 we've lost in the final four times. But but mainly 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.599 the doubles was sort of the where I first you know, 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.520 got into that that top level, and uh, it helps 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.440 to know you can beat these players, whether singles or doubles. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.680 And and then and it translated, i'd as soon you know, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.960 had some good results in the singles and so uh 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.640 and at that time we played both, I mean, we 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.520 played I think we beat Nuthman Roach here at Australia 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:39.480 in the Semis maybe, but all the players played singles 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.479 and doubles until the Connors and then Borg and then 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.919 and later on other players just played singles and we 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:49.920 didn't even think about it. I mean, when you think 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:55.080 about the fact that if you're I remember some players 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.640 were playing singles, doubles and mixed at Wimbledon, and you 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.640 know I was rating half the time he started two 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.280 o'clock every day. I mean, some players were on and 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.240 we're playing best of five sets and doubles, and then 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.600 I didn't play mixed doubles much. But some guys were 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.680 playing singles, doubles and mixed. They're on the court or 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.000 on the massage table or eating dinner or sleeping for 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.720 two weeks. I mean, it was. It was arduous. And 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.880 so you say, well, even then that singles is more 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.520 important than the doubles, So why didn't you think about 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.600 not playing doubles. But players didn't even think about it. 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.560 They just they did it, and it was you'd have 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.200 the luck of the draw. I mean they had a situation. 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.280 Here was Cinner, you know, kind of in a lucky 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:37.160 situation where you know, he was saved by the roof 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.200 to a certain extent, and so the scheduling could really 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.720 in effect, you might play your doubles match and play 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.640 the five sets, you know, finishing at nine o'clock, You 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.040 get a massage, you get dinner. Then you you haven't 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.600 signed up for the practice score the next day because 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:54.920 you finished so late. Then you got to play indoors 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.240 at eight o'clock. I'm at the Queen's Club on Wood 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.000 and then go out and ready to play your match 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.200 at Wimbledon. And it was it was tough. So obviously 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.920 if you didn't play doubles or mixed doubles, you had 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.960 a huge advantage. But we were too stupid to figure out. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:14.480 But it was better, as he said, it helped, like 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.600 getting that knowing that you could beat those big pies 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:18.960 on the big stage in doubles helps the singles. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.800 Yeah, he did. So I remember going in to the Masters. 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.240 I think I want that in seventy or something like that, 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.320 and Rosewald was be an interview. They said, well, who 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.080 do you think is the favorite here? And he said, well, 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.840 he said, Stan's one of the favorites. I said, well, wow, 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.000 if he thought that, maybe I'm peopable of winning, and 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:39.959 I did. I did actually beat him in the finals. 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:44.040 The first you know, Masters was held in Tokyo, Okay. 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.560 They played him in the finals in that tournament. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:51.720 Don't know that your career it coincided with a time 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.560 of change, really and kind of a turbulent time in tennis. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.040 You played college in the last years of the amateur era, 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.959 then you played professionally as tennis was turning professional. What 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.120 are your memories and was there any more satisfaction in 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:05.840 winning in that period? 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.880 It was a very strange period. There were you know, 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:15.400 contract pros, registered pros, amateurs. I think that I was 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.800 the last player to finish college and win the major tournament, 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.440 although Arthur finished before me and won a major tournament 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.640 after me. Arthur ashe. But so college was again a 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.160 lot of players Americans went to college, almost all of 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.960 them did, and but not you know, not players from 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.320 around the world. And so I was actually in a 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.640 kind of in a registered pro level. I wasn't signed 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.679 a contract. I hadn't signed a contract. Some of those 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.120 contract pros weren't allowed to play in some of the tournaments, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.920 and so it was really confusing even to you know, 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.040 to somebody really knows the history of the game. It 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.880 was still confusing even explain it to people, to say, 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:00.600 you know, why did you do that? It didn't make 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:05.880 any sense at all, But it was a change of 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.320 the whole makeup of the tour. And the thing that's 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.480 it's funny, it's the same today as it was fifty 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.920 years ago, is the schedule is the biggest issue in 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.640 the game. The schedule, and it's affected Davis Cup. You know, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.440 Davis Cup is now more or less gone from what 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.520 it was before. And it was scheduled right after the Majors. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.000 I remember Agacy one here and then he went to 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.800 bobod Swan and played on Davis Cup match and drove 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.720 and flew to San Jose, California and got sick because 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.920 he just it was just he played in the finals 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:43.760 here and had to play the Davis Cup and then 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.600 so you know, those things didn't make sense, so they 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.400 tried to figure out a way to do it. And 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.280 now you've got some other events that have come in, 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.280 like the Labor Cup and the Hopman Cup before and 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.000 this tournament and so it's called the United Cup. 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:00.760 Now, not a company now. 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.200 So it's the schedule is always a thing that's made 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.400 in fact. So now what's happened. You've got the four Majors, 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.800 which are now most becoming three week events, and then 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:16.040 you have the nine Master Series, which are becoming twelve 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:20.199 to ten day events, and so it's eliminating other tournaments. 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:25.600 And in the United States, we probably had fifteen to 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.480 twenty tournaments throughout the year the pros could play. And 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:34.040 now there's like a handful, literally a handful of high 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.000 level tournaments in the United States. And you know, of 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.160 course Asia has gotten more and in Europe has gotten more. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.920 So it's but the schedule is the one is the 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.679 word that really affects the players. And the players say 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.559 they want a shorter season. You've probably heard that a 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.600 million times. So they get a shorter season, and then 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:59.440 they play these money events exhibitions in December and in 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:04.240 November December, and they're getting paid quite a bit, but 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.080 they're playing when they could be resting, and so it's 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.800 a bit hypocritical to the players are saying we want 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.520 to short season, they really mean it. They shouldn't be 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.160 playing those events at the end of the year. And 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.480 of course promoters are seeing the opportunity to say, okay, 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.120 we'll pay you four or five hundred thousand dollars to 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.320 come play this event or you know, these three or 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.840 four days and it's pretty hard to turn down. So 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:31.480 that's it it is. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:36.440 Yes, it's the ongoing issue in tennis, the schedule we 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.960 wanted to Obviously, being Australians working in Australian media, we 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.960 love to know. We hear a lot about the golden 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.280 era of Australian tennis, Labor, Rosewell Newcombe all around the 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.440 time you played. What was it like to play some 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.120 of those greats of our Australian game. And I guess 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:53.840 see it play in parallel to those careers because like 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.240 in sixteen nine, Labour one the Grand Slam, and it 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.200 was all happening around the time you were at the top. 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.520 Yeah, I lost to them. I allowed him to win 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:07.440 against me Wimbledon and the French second Grand Slammy one. 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.120 That just I just wanted to give him a chance 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.920 to do. You know. When I was growing up, really 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:16.280 the Australians were the great players. You know, it's almost 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.440 like Noah's Arc. You had two players, you had uh 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.800 Sedgiment McGregor way back before my time. Then you had 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:31.000 uh Emerson and Stally and Labor and Rosewall and uh 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.320 the Woodies and then uh who were the other? Usually 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.120 two you know, he had Hewitt for a while after 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.560 Hewitt and then of course Cash is sort of on 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.840 his own. But it was always seemed like there was 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.520 two great Australians. They weren't just good players, they were 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.760 to the top in the world at the time. And 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.000 so my goal was really to be able to beat 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.440 his Australians and and the thing I really respected about 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:58.360 him is they would fight as hard as they possibly 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.880 could and uh and they didn't give you any grief 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.160 on the court generally, and at the end of the 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.400 match they shake hands and say good match, and they'd 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:08.840 meet it and you could have a beer with them. 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:13.000 I mean, it was you know, I love that that 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.320 type of competing. And I've tried to encourage kids at 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.920 the academy where I got some kids and just other players, 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:21.600 young players when I was in charge of the player 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.400 development program. Okay, let's see you compete as hard as 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.520 you possibly can't, train as hard as you can, compete 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.840 as hard as you can, and then after the match 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.960 you can you don't have any regrets. And that's what 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.800 I loved about the Australian players. I looked up to 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.200 them quite a bit. I got a lot of lessons. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.720 I got to lose to all those guys I've mentioned, 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.120 except for Sedgmonc Gregor who was before my time, but 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:47.400 I did have some wins against them as well. 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.480 So well. And as part of that era, there was 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.520 the great US Australia robber uche played outing Davis Cup 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.160 and you're part of I think seven winning Davis Cup 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:02.040 teams for the US. You know how satisfying was it to, 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.440 you know, win those seven Davis Cups and be part 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.280 of that great country rivalry. 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.880 Well, we started in sixty eight and our goal at 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.200 the very beginning of the year. Donald Dell was our captain. 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.360 He said, okay, he's going to travel with us the 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.320 whole year and make it ton of a team thing. 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.239 And we said to our parents, you know, in December 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.120 of nineteen sixty eight, we're going to start at Boxing 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.640 Day and play in Adelaide. We knew that Australia was 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.840 a defending champion, so they were going to be there, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.080 and so our goal was to get to Adelaide and 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:39.240 play there. And Australia didn't have their strongest team, but 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:41.720 we did win it. Then then we won it the 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.760 next four years and then Austin then we wanted a 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.640 couple more like I say, seven times. So then the 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.680 last time we played, I think it was the last 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:55.120 time in eighteen seventy three. It wasn't the last time, 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.520 but we lost to the Australian team in Cleveland, and 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.280 the team was Labor Newcombe, Rosewald and Roach. 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.640 I mean, maybe we hear about that one. 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.600 I lost maybe the best Davis Cup team ever and 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.560 and poor Rosewald didn't play, and he is, in my opinion, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:17.120 really underrated because he was unbelievable. And I had a 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.720 couple of nightmares with him at Wimbledon where I lost 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.600 to him after having match point in the semis. But anyway, 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.120 that was the Davis Cup was really a big thing. 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:32.000 And and that's why I feel sad about the fact 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.720 that it's it's really lost. It's it's Cliver. 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.920 We spoke a little bit earlier about your college career, 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.200 which was quite distinguished as well. Was was college tennis 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.320 a common path back then? 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.520 It was? And I was fortunate to win the National 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.200 Junior Championships which we call in Kalama Zoo, Michigan, and 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:57.560 they called the Zoo. Yeah, it still goes down that 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.680 all the players want to go to the Zoo and 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:01.920 then one he was open and singles and doubles, and 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.879 one was number one player in singles and doubles and 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.040 pros and so that was that was a path that 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:15.120 like I said, mostly Americans took that path and until 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.800 you know, the Connors and McEnroe actually did it. Connors 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.800 and macro actually played for one year in college, and 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:28.160 then several of the good players played for two years 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.399 and then moved on to the pro circuit. And it 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.920 was you know, I have four years in college or 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.800 some of the most enjoyable times of me playing tennis. 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.200 As we had a great team at USC and UCLA 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.320 was the other school that was a strong team, Arthur 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.640 ashe went there, Charlie Passrew and some of the other 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.639 top international players. And so that was the path that 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:56.160 we took and it worked. But then players started, you know, 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.159 either bypassing it totally or just spending a year or 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:03.320 two and going on. But like I said, my son 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.199 is a coach at Duke now and the college tennis 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.480 level is quite high. And the other day, you know, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.560 Ben Shelton was playing against Vashera, you know, and he 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.280 spent five years at Texas A and m he just 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.919 won a tournament last November, so he. 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.000 Was just in here the other day with us on 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:22.480 the sit down. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.159 Yeah, yeah, you know, it's that's a great example of 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.240 the guy who's playing at a very high level now. 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.360 Of course Ben Shelton is still in there now, and 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.720 so it's that path is still out there because there's 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.480 such a good competition. I mean, you're playing tough matches. 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:44.800 If you're the number one or two player in your team, 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.040 you're playing tough matches every match. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.240 And there's a nice link that, Yeah, you went to 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.320 USC and now learn a t in also went to 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.199 USC and he's in the quarterfinals here after beating Mevidet, 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.240 which is incredible at just twenty years of age. So 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.879 what's it like seeing, yeah, seeing of how I do 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:02.920 that come through the same pathway as you and succeed 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.840 in as you said, like it's a really tough era, Sony, 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.120 and that more international flavor of people coming through college. Yeah, 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:11.560 what's it mean to say him to do so well? 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.920 Speaking of international, A lot of the American parents are 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.560 not too happy for the fact that they're paying taxes, 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:23.080 and then especially at state schools where the taxes are 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.080 being used for the education that a lot of the 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.919 there's more foreign players really than there are Americans in 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.639 these universities, and the fact that they're taking away the 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:41.119 scholarship opportunities from the American players is an issue. And 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.199 this is an ongoing thing, just like the schedule. But 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.800 even back in my day, after my day a little 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.120 bit in college, the recommendation was, okay, you can only 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.000 have three foreign players or two foreign players on your team, 0:19:55.880 --> 0:20:00.199 and that would make it a little more equal if 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:06.440 American players an opportunity, and that's never worked because coaches 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.479 are being encouraged by the athletic directors to win and 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.480 they can't. There are enough good American players to compete 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:18.760 against some of the other teams, and so the foreign 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.560 players come and they play, they get an education, in 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.920 some cases some don't finish, but then they go home, 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:30.400 and so we're supporting we as American taxpayers are supporting 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:36.720 these foreign players that are taking away scholarships from the 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.320 American players and then getting an education in some cases 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:46.000 going on the pro tour, and those universities are supporting 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:47.080 those players. 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.160 I guess you do keep your eye on college tennis 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.680 quite closely. Who should we and we're seeing an incredible 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.720 path easy that you mentioned Shelton t and all of 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.199 it is still in these strine up. Who should we 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.520 be keeping at eye that's coming through the college system 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.160 now that we should look at for saying. 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.720 Well, yeah, it's hard to say because you know, it's 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:12.720 not really a good competition level. But a lot of 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.639 the coaches are quite good at developing good players. And 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.040 I must say that Texas A and m has got 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.440 has had. If you look at the history closely, you'll 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.200 see a handful of Texas A and players that are 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.080 that have been successful on the pro tour in singles 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:36.800 as well as doubles. So you know, you know, hopefully 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.119 the USC has the two top players that are that 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.359 are developing pretty well and they might be playing on 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:47.520 the tour here eventually, but it's it's it's hard to 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.880 know who's going to actually make that transition. That's fair. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.000 Reading your book and also looking back on your career, 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.520