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Speaker 1: We do know that as of the sixteenth of July,

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Speaker 1: legislation on the restriction of alcohol in three hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty four areas where First Nations people live is going

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Speaker 1: to expire in the Northern Territory. Now c to you,

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Speaker 1: Professor of Law Elizabeth Spencer says that Indigenous and non

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Speaker 1: Indigenous organizations have come out against lifting the restrictions without

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Speaker 1: first consulting with the First Nations communities that it affects.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line right now is Professor

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Spencer. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katy, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for your time, Professor. What

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Speaker 1: are your concerns regarding the changes to these alcohol restrictions.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie. So I'm not so much voicing my own

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Speaker 2: concerns as as noting that it's been a concern that's

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Speaker 2: been expressed by several Indigenous community groups and leaders calling

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Speaker 2: for the bands to stay and at the very least

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Speaker 2: calling for increased consultation with communities. So we're talking about

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Speaker 2: you know, a range of groups and also the Australian

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Speaker 2: Human Rights Commissioner June oscar all saying that that more

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Speaker 2: consultation was needed and the listing of the bands is

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Speaker 2: can can host serious risks?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. We have certainly had a few of those groups

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Speaker 1: on the show over the last couple of months raising

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Speaker 1: those issues and you know, talking about the worries that

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Speaker 1: they have once alcohol is able to flow back into

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Speaker 1: those communities. Elizabeth, what's the I mean the government has

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Speaker 1: said that it's going to be a community led response

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Speaker 1: with elders and leaders to have their say on whether

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Speaker 1: alcohol is permitted or restricted. Is that happening from your

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Speaker 1: perspective and from the research you've done, From.

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Speaker 2: What I can tell, very little consultation has happened. So

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Speaker 2: we've known, the community has known for the past ten

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Speaker 2: years since Stronger Futures legislation came in that there would

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Speaker 2: be a sunset clause and it would the ban would

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Speaker 2: lift completely in roughly three hundred and fifty communities in

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Speaker 2: town camps and homelands as of midnight July sixteenth, So

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Speaker 2: the levels of consultation appear to have been minimal. The

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Speaker 2: Commonwealth government has not proposed any alternatives, and so what

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory government has done is come in with

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Speaker 2: some opt in legislation was passed in late May and

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Speaker 2: it suggests that this will empower communities by giving them

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Speaker 2: the option to opt back into bands, but there is

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Speaker 2: a process that they need to go through, and providing

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Speaker 2: that legislation in late May and suggesting that they need

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Speaker 2: to go through the entire process file their applications. Just

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Speaker 2: just generating the awareness between late May and sort of

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Speaker 2: the end of June when you'd have to launch your

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Speaker 2: will large your application would be tough.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing and we're just weeks a

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Speaker 1: why now it is? You know, it's about twelve days

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Speaker 1: twelve thirteen days before this is going to certainly forge

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Speaker 1: a head. Are you aware of any particular communities that

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Speaker 1: do want to stay dry? Or what's the you know what?

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Speaker 1: What are you being told at this point?

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Speaker 2: So there's a real hue and cry, and I would

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Speaker 2: refer people to the joint media release of the Central

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Speaker 2: Australian Aboriginal Congress, the head of NAJA, the Aboriginal Medical

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Speaker 2: Services Alliance of the Northern Territory, the Northern Territory Council

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Speaker 2: of Social Services, even the Northern Territory Police, who, according

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Speaker 2: to the legislation, have a lot to do with as

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Speaker 2: you would know, a lot to do with the enforcement

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Speaker 2: of alcohol bands in the communities, and the different kermit

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Speaker 2: systems and so on. There's a real mosaic of of

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Speaker 2: of different regulation and different different bands, different kermits across

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Speaker 2: general restricted areas, alcohol protected areas. So there's there's, you know,

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Speaker 2: a complexity to this, and and I think that there's

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Speaker 2: so many organizations that are saying we need more consultation,

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Speaker 2: we need more information. I'm not aware of a lot

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Speaker 2: of groups that are that are saying that they think

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Speaker 2: that the listing of the bands outright without any without

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Speaker 2: any consultation, without any further uh support for what happens next.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm not aware of a lot of a

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Speaker 2: lot of support for that. If if there is, I

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Speaker 2: suppose you'll be hearing about it after this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well this is the thing. I've no doubt that

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Speaker 1: we will. And you know, I guess the concern here

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Speaker 1: is what is going happen, you know, come July seventeen

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Speaker 1: in some of those communities. What are some of those

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Speaker 1: fears at this point, professor, Well, already, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, Australia has among the highest levels of alcohol consumption

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Speaker 2: in the world already, and the Northern Territory has another

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Speaker 2: fifty percent higher levels of alcohol consumption per capita than

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Speaker 2: Australia generally we have five to six times and that's

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Speaker 2: probably a conservative estimate of emergency department presentations, assault road accidents.

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Speaker 2: Who knows what caused the accident last night, family violence,

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Speaker 2: child abuse, a drop in school attendance performance, all kinds

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Speaker 2: of health issues, and the fraying of already fragile social infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: So those are the risks that need to be addressed

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Speaker 2: by the community as a whole.

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Speaker 1: There will certainly be some people listening this morning who

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Speaker 1: are thinking, you know, why shouldn't Aboriginal people living in

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Speaker 1: communities have the same right says the rest of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that's a really interesting question. Right

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Speaker 2: and responsibilities go together. And I think we we live

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Speaker 2: in an era where we have the capability in our

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Speaker 2: society to consult and to formulate policy that is actually

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Speaker 2: appropriate for particular communities in consultation with those communities. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's what's being asked for here. I'm a

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Speaker 2: planner by trade as well, and I remember in the

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Speaker 2: early days of my career working with city plans and

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Speaker 2: so on, and we would do a lot of facilitation,

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Speaker 2: a lot of consultation upfront. And I used to say, well,

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Speaker 2: why do we have to do this. It's so expensive,

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Speaker 2: it's so time consuming. But what you do is you

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Speaker 2: build understanding, you build consensus, You create genuine appropriate kinds

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Speaker 2: of responses you real need when you do when you

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Speaker 2: take the time and make the effort, any investment, frankly

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Speaker 2: of doing that upfront consultation.

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Speaker 1: Well, Charles Darwin University Law professor Elizabeth Spencer, we really

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much for having

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Speaker 1: a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Katie, I'm the best.

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Speaker 1: Thank you