Speaker 1: This is Curtain, a podcast where we expose the disappearances
Speaker 1: of Aboriginal people across this country, shining a light on
Speaker 1: the darkest parts of our justice system.
Speaker 2: We ask who are the victims? I am Aiming.
Speaker 3: McGuire and I'm Martin Hodgson, Senior advocate at the Foreign
Speaker 3: Prisoner Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the
Speaker 3: names of deceased people and includes distressing content that may
Speaker 3: upset some listeners. Welcome to episode two of season two
Speaker 3: of Curtin the podcast. To begin this week, Amy's going
Speaker 3: to tell a story and like a lot of the
Speaker 3: breakthroughs we've had in both Kevin's case and understanding this
Speaker 3: issue more broadly, Amy's mind was sparked by a conversation
Speaker 3: with her father, Sterling maguire, who you've heard before in
Speaker 3: an interview on this podcast and a number of years ago.
Speaker 3: Sterling mentioned to name Amy, can you tell us what
Speaker 3: your dad said and where that led? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I think from listeners of our podcast, we know
Speaker 1: that a lot of the stories I've been working on,
Speaker 1: particularly coming from Rock Campden, including Kevin Henry and Annie Queeney,
Speaker 1: who would talk about later in this podcast, and we
Speaker 1: have talked about previously actually came from conversations that my
Speaker 1: dad had with me, and so a number of years ago,
Speaker 1: I think I was only about eighteen, I was working
Speaker 1: down in Canberra. Dad actually called and told me about
Speaker 1: a man in Rock Campden and he was well known
Speaker 1: around the community because he was involved in the local
Speaker 1: soccer scene. Like my dad had actually been involved in
Speaker 1: the killing of a woman over in his home country
Speaker 1: of Canada, and that was obviously very shocking to me.
Speaker 1: So today I want to just recount a brief story
Speaker 1: because I think it connects a lot of things with
Speaker 1: what happens in relation to the murders and disappearances of
Speaker 1: Aboriginal women over in Canada and America. To hear on
Speaker 1: our own traditional homelands. This story is about a woman
Speaker 1: named Pamela George. Pamela George was a solte woman from
Speaker 1: the Sakame Reserve, one hundred and forty kilometers from Regina
Speaker 1: in the province of Saskatchewan in western Canada. Pamela had
Speaker 1: three children who were only young when she was killed
Speaker 1: in April nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 2: She had a five year.
Speaker 1: Old and a ten year old and a two year
Speaker 1: old baby who had passed. She was remembered by her
Speaker 1: sister Denise as a person who respected her elders and
Speaker 1: she never harmed anyone. But her life was tragically taken
Speaker 1: by two white men who each received six and a
Speaker 1: half year sentences and were paroled within two years. They
Speaker 1: were not sentenced for murder, but for manslaughter. Their names
Speaker 1: were Alex Tanowski and Steve Cummerfield. The lenient sentence sparked
Speaker 1: outrage from Indigenous people across Canada, and it was fueled
Speaker 1: by the judge's instructions to the jury at trial that
Speaker 1: they should include the fact Pamela George was working as
Speaker 1: a sex worker at the time in their deliberations. The
Speaker 1: defense had argued that quote, since both men were highly intoxicated,
Speaker 1: they bore administ responsibility for the beating, and it was
Speaker 1: a horneous murder. The boys did quote pretty darn stupid things,
Speaker 1: and quote the judge said, but they did not commit murder. Regina,
Speaker 1: where Pamela George was from, and my hometown of Rockampden
Speaker 1: are an ocean apart. And yet Pamela George's murder and
Speaker 1: the callous treatment of her, her family, and her community
Speaker 1: by the Canadian justice system had too many similarities with
Speaker 1: stories we will speak about on this podcast, including the
Speaker 1: story of Annie Quinny Hart and Linda, who were both
Speaker 1: murdered on my traditional d Rumble homelands by the River Tunabal.
Speaker 2: But there was another similarity.
Speaker 1: As I said previously, I had not heard of Pamela
Speaker 1: George until two thousand and seven when my father rang
Speaker 1: me that day. I did not know her name, and
Speaker 1: I would not know her name until years later when
Speaker 1: I started doing a PhD into missing and murdered Indigenous women.
Speaker 2: But one day Dad.
Speaker 1: Told me that there was a journalist at our local
Speaker 1: newspaper who had been convicted of killing an Aboriginal woman
Speaker 1: in his hometown in Canada. Dad knew only the briefest
Speaker 1: of details. That journalist, who was also an editor at
Speaker 1: the Morning Bulletin, was named alex Toanouski. Alex Toanoutski, who
Speaker 1: had murdered Pamela George and only served two years and
Speaker 1: had even bragged about it to his friends before he
Speaker 1: was convicted, had ended up employed by my local newspaper
Speaker 1: thousands of kilometers away on my own traditional homelands, the
Speaker 1: place where Annie Queeny Hart died, the place where Linda died.
Speaker 1: The place where so many d rumble people were massacred.
Speaker 1: Now did the Morning Bulletin know? By two thousand and
Speaker 1: seven it definitely did. It published an article based on
Speaker 1: court proceedings about Tanoutski. It said, alex To and alcohol
Speaker 1: don't mix. Yesterday, the thirty year old paid for his
Speaker 1: latest slip up, driving a red moped along Rock Campden's
Speaker 1: William Street at eleven thirty pm on New Year's Eve
Speaker 1: while almost five times the legal limit. Tanotski had a
Speaker 1: checkered past of alcohol field indiscretions, and in the fifth
Speaker 1: paragraph The Morning Bulletin wrote only one sentence. Tanotski was
Speaker 1: sentenced to six years in jail in Canada after he
Speaker 1: and another man bashed a prostitute to death in nine
Speaker 1: ninety five. Those were the only details about Pamela George.
Speaker 1: She had been reduced just to a prostitute, and her
Speaker 1: savage killing had been deemed the result of only an
Speaker 1: alcohol fuel slip up. Martin, You've just heard me describe
Speaker 1: this unbelievable connection between Regina and rock Hampton. What do
Speaker 1: you take from that?
Speaker 3: It's so shocking to me still, although I shouldn't be
Speaker 3: surprised the language used to humanize a woman, an Indigenous
Speaker 3: women who's been the victim of a horrific crime, and
Speaker 3: find ways to excuse the white murderer. And then there's
Speaker 3: just something about him coming to Rockhampton of all places,
Speaker 3: and being involved in the media, because so much of
Speaker 3: what we hear about what happens comes through these media channels,
Speaker 3: and so much of what is wrong about what's said
Speaker 3: about the victim and the perpetrator doesn't necessarily come from
Speaker 3: just police and magistrates and prosecutors, but from journalists and
Speaker 3: editors themselves. And so for him to find himself in
Speaker 3: that position in a town on the other side of
Speaker 3: the world that's also known for that horrific colonial violence,
Speaker 3: it boggles the mind. But it just shows how close
Speaker 3: those links really are.
Speaker 1: And Martin, I think the other thing that really stood
Speaker 1: out to me was the fact that that, you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up reading the Morning Bulletin, but I know
Speaker 1: that when I went back into the Morning Bulletin archives
Speaker 1: and I read how they spoke of Annie Quinni particular
Speaker 1: they called her things like dark and colored, and also
Speaker 1: the way they talked about Linda as if she was
Speaker 1: nothing or she was just totally erased from their coverage.
Speaker 2: I think the other thing that.
Speaker 1: Really shocks me is just it connects the complicity of
Speaker 1: media in ways that I don't fully understand even now.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean. How a white.
Speaker 1: Men from Canada can come over here and be given
Speaker 1: some sense of innocence and have his really colonial violent
Speaker 1: crimes downgraded to such an extent, and the newspaper seems
Speaker 1: to have washed its hands of any accountability in the
Speaker 1: elevation of him to not just a journalist, but to
Speaker 1: an editor.
Speaker 3: I think it shows why it's important to interrogate every
Speaker 3: aspect of violence against Indigenous women and children. When Amy
Speaker 3: first told me she was embarking on a thesis and
Speaker 3: looking at the media's role in the reporting of the
Speaker 3: deaths of murdered and disappeared Aboriginal women and children, I
Speaker 3: must admit I thought to myself, there's much bigger issues
Speaker 3: here around this case. And this was quite a few
Speaker 3: years ago, and now as the years have gone by,
Speaker 3: I've come to understand why the work Amy's doing is
Speaker 3: so important, and it's part of why it's important to
Speaker 3: get out of our own silos, whether they be in journalism,
Speaker 3: the law, education, all these other areas. Where they're actually
Speaker 3: all linked and it too easily can be simplified when
Speaker 3: in fact it's a much bigger story.
Speaker 1: And just picking up from that, Martyn, I mean I
Speaker 1: started looking into well, first it started with interrogating media
Speaker 1: representations of violence against Aboriginal women. But then I realized
Speaker 1: there was this enduring crisis around murdered and disappeared Aboriginal
Speaker 1: women in our homelands. And that has come from working
Speaker 1: on cases with you and from talking to so many
Speaker 1: other families, but it also comes from acknowledging that over
Speaker 1: in Canada, in particular where Pamela George was from, there
Speaker 1: has been a long movement to make these deaths visible.
Speaker 2: And Pamela George is really one of the most.
Speaker 1: Landmark or most highly publicized cases because of the fact
Speaker 1: that these two men, Alex Tnnounced and Steve Cummerfield, were
Speaker 1: led off so leniently, and because of the way Pamela
Speaker 1: was so dehumanized in the media.
Speaker 2: But over the course of those years.
Speaker 1: Where Aboriginal women and families were fighting to make these
Speaker 1: deaths visible, it culminated in a watershed inquiry that was
Speaker 1: handed down in twenty nineteen, which became the Missing e
Speaker 1: Murdered Indigenous Women's and Girls Inquiry in Canada not just
Speaker 1: looking at women and girls, but also trans and non
Speaker 1: binary people who have been killed and two Spirit people,
Speaker 1: which they call in Canada. And we do have a
Speaker 1: national inquiry over here currently undergoing in the Senate, but
Speaker 1: it is a far cry from the inquiry in Canada,
Speaker 1: which spoke to thousands of families and advocates and experts
Speaker 1: as it was doing its inquiry.
Speaker 2: But even four years after the.
Speaker 1: Missing and Murder Indigenous Women's and Girls Inquiry in Canada,
Speaker 1: Aboriginal women are very concerned that there has been little movement.
Speaker 1: So the inquiry actually delivered two hundred and thirty one
Speaker 1: calls for justice after it had been completed.
Speaker 2: Just some of these calls, I mean, it goes through
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 1: Of the underlaying issues that lead to violence against Aboriginal women.
Speaker 1: But it also included some really important calls like, for example,
Speaker 1: standardization of protocols for policies and practices that ensure all
Speaker 1: cases of missing, a murdered Indigenous women's girls, and two
Speaker 1: Spirit people are thoroughly investigated. Then they also called for
Speaker 1: the establishment of an independent Special Investigation Unit for the
Speaker 1: investigation of incidents of values to investigate police misconduct in
Speaker 1: all forms of discriminatory practices and mistreatment of Indigenous people
Speaker 1: within the POLICEIRSE, and critically it called for the establishment
Speaker 1: of a national task Force to review and, if required,
Speaker 1: to reinvestigate each case of all unresolved files of missing
Speaker 1: a murdered Indigenous women's and girls and trans and two
Speaker 1: spirit peoples across Canada, and also produce all unresolved cases
Speaker 1: of missing or murdered Indigenous women to the National Task Force.
Speaker 1: And I pulled out just some of those recommendations from
Speaker 1: the two hundred and thirty one calls for Justice because
Speaker 1: I feel like that would be what we need over here.
Speaker 1: But even then, an investigation by the Canadian broadcaster CBC
Speaker 1: found this year that only two of the two hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty one calls of the inquiry have been completed
Speaker 1: and only half have even been started, So about one
Speaker 1: hundred of those calls haven't even been looked at. And
Speaker 1: so it really shows that even when you have this
Speaker 1: extensive inquiry, the follow three is just not there. And
Speaker 1: I think that cautions us over in our own country
Speaker 1: about the limitations of public inquiries as well, so that
Speaker 1: there was an inquiry in Canada and there's an inquiry
Speaker 1: going on in Australia. We've shown a little bit about
Speaker 1: the similarities between the cases of Pamela George and the
Speaker 1: cases that we've also talked about on this podcast. There's
Speaker 1: the reason why we have this issue around the deliberate
Speaker 1: targeting of Aboriginal women, not just in Canada but over here.
Speaker 1: And I think it goes to our shared histories as
Speaker 1: Aboriginal people who have been victims of settler colonial societies. Martin,
Speaker 1: how do you see this and the links between Canada
Speaker 1: and Australia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important that the story of murdered
Speaker 3: and forcibly disappeared Aboriginal women is not just told, but
Speaker 3: told from the start. Unfortunately, the inquiry that we're seeing
Speaker 3: play out at the moment in Australia is telling the
Speaker 3: tale of individual cases, individual pages.
Speaker 2: But this is an.
Speaker 3: Anthology of colonial violence deeply rooted in the dehumanizing and
Speaker 3: barbaric treatment of Aboriginal women, where sexual violence was simply
Speaker 3: normal for settlers. In historian Henry Reynolds's book With the
Speaker 3: White People, he says, and I quote on pastoral stations
Speaker 3: Aboriginal women were preyed on by any and every white
Speaker 3: man whose women was to have a piece of black velvet,
Speaker 3: as they called it, wherever and whenever they pleased. He
Speaker 3: goes on to say, on many stations there was no
Speaker 3: attempt to hide the extent of sexual relations between white
Speaker 3: station workers and black women. And when he says sexual relations,
Speaker 3: I think what he should say is rape and sexual slavery.
Speaker 3: The book further tells us a pastoralist from the edge
Speaker 3: of the Nullibor plane told a South Australian Royal Commission
Speaker 3: in eighteen ninety nine that he'd known stations where and
Speaker 3: I quote, every hand on the place had a gin.
Speaker 3: That's a derogatory term for an Aboriginal woman, even down
Speaker 3: to boys of eighteen years of age. Just six years later,
Speaker 3: when there was debate in West Australia that led to
Speaker 3: the establishment of the aborigin his Act of nine five,
Speaker 3: it was noted in Parliament that at Vitriol River stations,
Speaker 3: a witness observed that on many stations and I quote,
Speaker 3: there are no white women at all. Only these Aboriginal
Speaker 3: women are usually at the mercy of anybody, from the
Speaker 3: proprietor or manager to the Stockman, Cook rous about and
Speaker 3: the Jack. But that Act that was supposed to protect
Speaker 3: Aboriginal women and to make provisions for the better protection
Speaker 3: of all Aboriginal inhabitants of Western Australia did nothing to
Speaker 3: stop the widening femicide and rape of Aboriginal women right
Speaker 3: across the state. It was simply business as usual. In fact,
Speaker 3: in many ways it got worse. There were also some
Speaker 3: horrific ideas around the colony at the time. Amongst the
Speaker 3: white settlers, it was said the idea of chastity amongst
Speaker 3: Aboriginal women was considered by the European men as an
Speaker 3: I quote preposterous. In a paper by Professor Judy Atkinson,
Speaker 3: she quotes Northern Territory pastoralist Alfred Giles as saying, no
Speaker 3: less preposterous is the idea of a black woman being outraged.
Speaker 3: Giles was the friend of Mounted Constable William Wilshire, who
Speaker 3: became notorious for his skills in dispersing the natives I quote,
Speaker 3: and wrote rapturously about black virgins all being nude, having
Speaker 3: suggested that perhaps God meant them for use as he
Speaker 3: pleased them wherever the pioneers go. Willsher argued for the
Speaker 3: use of Aboriginal women by white bushmen, but loathed the
Speaker 3: resulting offspring of these unions. The offspring, of course, became
Speaker 3: the first children known as half castes and who would
Speaker 3: go on to be stolen from their families. Willshare was
Speaker 3: a notorious figure in colonial Australia. In eighteen ninety one,
Speaker 3: his men attacked a group of sleeping Aboriginal people camped
Speaker 3: at Tempy Downs, killing two. The incident was investigated, and
Speaker 3: will she became the first policeman charged with murder, and
Speaker 3: he stood trial in Port Augusta. The case was highly controversial,
Speaker 3: but public subscriptions raised the enormous amount of two thousand
Speaker 3: pounds for his bail and also paid for his defense
Speaker 3: by Sir John Downer. While Aboriginal witnesses gave evidence, of course,
Speaker 3: Willshear was acquitted. After the trial, Willshear was simply transferred
Speaker 3: to Victoria River District in eighteen ninety three, where he
Speaker 3: would continue his crimes against Aboriginal people. His defender, Sir
Speaker 3: John Downer, was of course the grandfather of Alexander Downer,
Speaker 3: the foreign minister who took this country into an illegal
Speaker 3: war in Iraq. Historian Tony Roberts, in his two thousand
Speaker 3: and five award winning book Frontier Justice, A History of
Speaker 3: the Golf Country to nineteen hundred, described the nature of
Speaker 3: massacres and violent counters with Aboriginal people in the Golf
Speaker 3: Country as part of the Australian Frontier War was His
Speaker 3: research showed that senior colonial politicians, including the likes of
Speaker 3: Downer and Shirdon Colton, along with South Australian police and
Speaker 3: I quote Mastermind, condoned or concealed atrocities in the anti
Speaker 3: Golf Country, which led to the deaths of at least
Speaker 3: six hundred Aboriginal people, according to Henry Reynolds. Roberts concluded
Speaker 3: that Downer's name occurred with greater frequency than any of
Speaker 3: his colleagues, and he pointed out that Downer, as a
Speaker 3: trained lawyer, an Attorney General from eighteen eighty one to
Speaker 3: eighteen eighty four and then as Premier eighteen eighty five
Speaker 3: to eighteen eighty seven, he must have either deliberately ignored
Speaker 3: the rights of Aboriginal people that were embodied at the
Speaker 3: time or was directly involved. This has gone unchanged since
Speaker 3: the first ship landed from the massacres the supposed disbursement
Speaker 3: sees that drove Aboriginal people off their land and killed men,
Speaker 3: dragged women into sexual slavery, and left children to die.
Speaker 3: This ingrained hatred and culture for Aboriginal women that said
Speaker 3: that these men had a right to Aboriginal women's bodies
Speaker 3: for sick sexual gratification swept through the colony for more
Speaker 3: than one hundred and fifty years unchallenged, and then when
Speaker 3: some changes came after the sixty seven referendum, the victim
Speaker 3: blaming began, and this was used to justify the horrors
Speaker 3: as the media stepped up its role in facilitating this genocide.
Speaker 3: Queenie Hart was brutally murdered in the seventies, her body
Speaker 3: dumped in the Fitzroy River, and her killer, Stephen Henry Keem,
Speaker 3: allowed to walk free on the opening day of his
Speaker 3: trial by a judge simply acting on a whim the
Speaker 3: media having falsely labeled Queenie a sex worker or, to
Speaker 3: be blunt in their words, a prostitute. In nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 3: twenty three year old Aboriginal women Esther George, died in
Speaker 3: a Sydney house fire. She'd come to the city a
Speaker 3: year earlier from Dumagy in Queensland. The coroner said her
Speaker 3: cause of death was and I quote from burns sustained
Speaker 3: then and then when the house fire broke out within
Speaker 3: those premises from a cause unknown. Not only a ridiculous statement,
Speaker 3: but we do know the cause. The building she was
Speaker 3: staying in that night was the target of a developer,
Speaker 3: Frank Thierman, who'd hired thugs, including two former New South
Speaker 3: Wales police detectives, Fred Cray and Keith Kelly, to intimidate residents.
Speaker 3: Despite police attempts which ultimately failed to frame another Aboriginal
Speaker 3: man for the murder, there is little doubt in my
Speaker 3: mind that those retired New South Wales police officers were
Speaker 3: involved in Esther's murder when they set that fire. They
Speaker 3: were also accused of a number of rapes and murders
Speaker 3: of women around Sydney and the state of New South Wales.
Speaker 3: Lynette Daily and countless other women would follow, murdered and raped,
Speaker 3: discarded as if worthless. The DPP filed twice to try
Speaker 3: Lynnette's killers, despite the coroner, Michael Barnes, finding that there
Speaker 3: could be and I quote no doubt that mister apt
Speaker 3: Order had inflicted the fatal injuries, but even beyond a
Speaker 3: reasonable doubt, the killer was deemed more worthy of freedom
Speaker 3: than Lynette was of her life, and to this day,
Speaker 3: in Queensland alone, the inquest into such debts continue. White men,
Speaker 3: like all of the murderers I've mentioned so far, reveling
Speaker 3: in more than two hundred years of colonial culture and
Speaker 3: brutal killing of Aboriginal women like Constance may Watchow and
Speaker 3: Miss Bernard, and hundreds and hundreds of others. Each, every
Speaker 3: single one of these women has left this earth at
Speaker 3: the hands of a settler, taking their piece of black velvet,
Speaker 3: as they call it. And not one of these women
Speaker 3: nor their families has had justice. This is the dark
Speaker 3: stain that is smeared across this country. This is the
Speaker 3: truth we seek to expose on this podcast and through
Speaker 3: our work to name without fear in our voices, this
Speaker 3: colonial culture that pulses through the pains of these lands
Speaker 3: and will only be healed when justice is truly handed
Speaker 3: down and hurt, and the humanity of each and every
Speaker 3: Aboriginal woman and child is finally treasured with the sacred
Speaker 3: love they deserve. This episode was brought to you by
Speaker 3: Black Cast and produced by Clint Curtis. For more, you
Speaker 3: can visit us at www dot Curtain podcast dot com,
Speaker 3: follow us on Twitter at Curtain Podcast, and help to
Speaker 3: support our work at Patreon dot com backslash Curtain Podcast.
Speaker 3: M m hmmm.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm
Speaker 3: M