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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: bunjelung Caalcoutin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Monday,

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Speaker 2: the fifth of February. I'm Sam, I'm Zarah. Last week,

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Speaker 2: social media bosses faced questions from Senate leaders in the

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Speaker 2: US over child exploitation and online safety concerns.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you this. There's families of victims here today.

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Speaker 3: Have you apologized to the victims hip? Would you like

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Speaker 3: to do so? Now? Well they're here, You're on national television.

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Speaker 3: Would you like now to apologize to the victims.

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Speaker 4: I know you don't mean it to be so, but

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Speaker 4: you have blood on your hands.

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Speaker 5: You have a product.

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Speaker 3: We never product does kill mpe.

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Speaker 2: We'll have more on what exactly went down in today's

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Speaker 2: deep dive.

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Speaker 5: The First Sam. What's making headlines?

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Speaker 2: A coalition of US and UK forces, along with support

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Speaker 2: from a number of other nations, including Australia, have conducted

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Speaker 2: strikes on at least thirty Hoothy targets in Yemen in

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Speaker 2: response to ongoing Hoothy attacks on international shipping channels and

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Speaker 2: US warships in the Red Sea. It comes after the

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Speaker 2: US struck another eighty five targets linked to an Iran

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Speaker 2: backed militia in Iraq and Syria on Friday in response

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Speaker 2: to a drone strike from the militia that killed three

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Speaker 2: American soldiers in Jordan last week. According to a statement

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Speaker 2: from the White House, the US response will quote continue

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Speaker 2: at times and places of our choosing.

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Speaker 5: New data from clean Up Australia's annual Rubbish Report shows

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Speaker 5: that vyplitter doubled from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 5: The report provides a snapshot of Australia's waist based on

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Speaker 5: later collected across over one thousand locations by more than

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Speaker 5: one million ausies. Vape rubbish was found across twenty two

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Speaker 5: percent of surveyed sites between July twenty twenty two and

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Speaker 5: July of last year, which is up from ten percent

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Speaker 5: of sites from the previous year.

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Speaker 2: The Queensland government has announced an one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 2: million dollar rental relief package, including the prohibition of rent bidding.

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Speaker 2: Rent bridding is when a real estate agent solicits or

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Speaker 2: invites an offer of rents that is higher than the

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Speaker 2: advertised price. Premier Steven Miles said the laws will provide

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Speaker 2: transparency for renters and provide an even playing field for

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Speaker 2: everyone who wants a property.

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Speaker 5: And the good news, sea otter populations are bouncing back

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Speaker 5: from a period of decline, with numbers on the rise.

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Speaker 5: According to the journal Nature, several odd species have been

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Speaker 5: found in expanded habitats like river otters living on oysteris.

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Speaker 2: Zare. It's not every day that you see the CEO's

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Speaker 2: of the world's biggest social media platforms. We're talking meta,

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Speaker 2: We're talking Snapchat, TikTok, and TikTok. It was an all

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Speaker 2: star cast, everyone in the same room, let alone, at

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Speaker 2: the request of US government officials. But that's exactly what

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Speaker 2: played out in Washington late last week.

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Speaker 5: It was so crazy to watch. Yeah, something that I

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Speaker 5: thought about, I'm just going to go on a bit

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Speaker 5: of a tangent for a second, was the fact that

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Speaker 5: Mark Zuckerberg sat in a dorm room how many years ago,

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Speaker 5: almost twenty decades ago, and came up with this idea,

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Speaker 5: and then last week was required to sit in front

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Speaker 5: of an inquiry and issue an apology for child exploitation.

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Speaker 5: It was, I guess, just showing the complete transformation of

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Speaker 5: social media and the impact and the responsibility that comes

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Speaker 5: with that. Take me back to the start.

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Speaker 2: Of this story. Well, I think you've given away a

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Speaker 2: couple of the main points of that. It's okay, Well,

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Speaker 2: why don't we go back a bit and actually try

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Speaker 2: and break this one down. So representatives from Meta which

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Speaker 2: is Instagram, and Facebook x which was formerly known as Twitter, Snapchat, Discord,

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Speaker 2: and TikTok fronted the US Senate Judiciary Committee. And the

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Speaker 2: Judiciary Committee is made up of twenty one members, both

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Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats, and they've got broad powers to examine

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Speaker 2: influential legal and social issues, so they can almost call

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Speaker 2: an inquiry for just about anything and compel people to

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Speaker 2: come and ask questions of them. Now, the Senate Judiciary

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Speaker 2: Committee is also the body responsible for interviewing judges nominated

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Speaker 2: for the US Supreme Court, the highest court in America,

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Speaker 2: and that's often when we see them in the new

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Speaker 2: cycle is when a judge's kind of getting questioned before

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Speaker 2: they get sworn to the bench. And so in recent times,

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Speaker 2: the Judiciary Committee has been reviewing laws surrounding online safety

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Speaker 2: for children, something we've talked about in an Australian context

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Speaker 2: as well, and the Committee has voiced this increasing need

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Speaker 2: for social media companies to take the responsibility for providing

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Speaker 2: a place where dangerous on line content can flourish. And

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Speaker 2: so it decided to launch a hearing into what's being

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Speaker 2: called big tech and the online child sexual exploitation crisis.

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Speaker 2: Very clear there, yeah, And so in November last year,

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Speaker 2: the committee called on social media CEOs to front up

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Speaker 2: to the hearings. And that brings us to what happens

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Speaker 2: last week when some of the bigger CEOs of any

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Speaker 2: company in the world really flew into Washington to testify.

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Speaker 5: And so take me through how those hearings actually worked,

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Speaker 5: because I saw grabs and you know, we obviously see

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Speaker 5: the big moments, but what were the kinds of questions

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Speaker 5: that these tech CEOs were actually facing.

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Speaker 2: Well, they basically were tasked with explaining how their individual

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Speaker 2: platforms are working to protect young people online and in

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Speaker 2: particular to protect them from sexual exploitation and abuse. And

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Speaker 2: they were also asked to give some specific examples and

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Speaker 2: evidence to prove their claims. But what happens in these

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Speaker 2: hearings is before the CEOs themselves go on that quite

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Speaker 2: long speech. Were the first ones to speak, and they

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Speaker 2: delivered a series of opening remarks that were highly critical

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Speaker 2: of the CEO's over this lack of online safety features

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Speaker 2: to protect children. So that really set the tone for

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Speaker 2: the hearings. Committee chair Dick Durbin, who is a Democrat,

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Speaker 2: called the rise of online child sexual exploitation a crisis

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Speaker 2: in America, and he alleged social media platforms are being

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Speaker 2: used to spread abusive content and actually facilitate grooming.

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Speaker 5: I remember seeing though a grab. I think it was

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Speaker 5: Lindsay Graham. He went a bit, he went really hard. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: So Lindsay grahams a Republican. He compared the dangers of

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Speaker 5: social media to cigarettes, and he delivered this very powerful

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Speaker 5: line to the social media executives. He said, you have

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Speaker 5: blood on your hands, you have a product that's killing people.

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Speaker 5: So pretty unambiguous there about what the law makers think

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Speaker 5: about big Teche. I mean, how do you respond to

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Speaker 5: something like that.

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Speaker 2: It was tough, it was tough for the social media

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Speaker 2: executives to almost kind of give answers to that sort

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Speaker 2: of rehetoric. And one of the biggest moments from the

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Speaker 2: hearings was when Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, the guy who

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago was in his dorm room, as you

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Speaker 2: mentioned before, apologized to the families of victims of abuse

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Speaker 2: on his platforms. There was this incredible moment where Senator

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Speaker 2: Josh Hawley compelled Mark Zuckerberg to apologize directly to the

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Speaker 2: families of victims of abuse on his platforms, who were

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Speaker 2: actually in the public gallery at the time. So Mark

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Speaker 2: Zuckerberg kind of turned around, turned away from the microphone

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Speaker 2: and to the senators to look at the families, and

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Speaker 2: he said, everything that you have all gone through, it's terrible.

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Speaker 2: No one should have to go through the things that

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Speaker 2: your family have suffered. He then went on to insist

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Speaker 2: that Meta is investing in what he described as industry

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Speaker 2: leading efforts to improve safety. But Zuckerberg did definitely face

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Speaker 2: sustained criticism during the hearings over a child sexual abuse

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Speaker 2: warning on Instagram that users could ignore by selecting a

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Speaker 2: c results anyway.

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Speaker 5: Option A lot of the grabs that I've been seeing

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Speaker 5: coming out of this have been focused on Meta and

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Speaker 5: then on TikTok. There's third huge platform, X. Elon Musk

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Speaker 5: was the CEO. He is no longer the CEO. Did

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Speaker 5: we see X actually turn up to these hearings.

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Speaker 2: Well, we did, but we didn't see Elon Musk come

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Speaker 2: to the hearings. He was asked by officials to front up.

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Speaker 2: He sent his CEO Linda Yacarino instead. She's now replaced

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Speaker 2: Mask as the CEO of X, and she gave quite

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Speaker 2: an impassioned testimony.

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Speaker 4: We want America to lead in this solution. We need

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Speaker 4: to raise the standards across the entire Internet ecosystem, especially

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Speaker 4: for those tech companies that are not here today and

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Speaker 4: not stepping up.

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Speaker 5: And what did some of the other platforms say?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 2: We heard from Snapchat or the parent company Snap Inc.

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Speaker 2: And their CEO, Evan Spiegel, who also apologized during the hearings.

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Speaker 2: He addressed parents of children who fatally overdosed after sourcing

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Speaker 2: drugs over the APPO. He blamed in part safety issues

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Speaker 2: on Snapchat on the quote scale and widespread use of

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Speaker 2: the app, which he said meant that bad actors will

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Speaker 2: try and abuse the service and take advantage of users.

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Speaker 2: And then we also heard from TikTok and TikTok faced

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Speaker 2: criticism about its algorithms, particularly in relation to black holes

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Speaker 2: of dangerous content young users can get stuck into, with

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Speaker 2: examples like eating disorder content masked as healthy eating or

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Speaker 2: lifestyle content. The TikTok CEO defended the social media platform.

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Speaker 2: He said the company works to enforce its policy, which

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Speaker 2: bans under thirteen year olds from the app.

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Speaker 5: I think it's one thing for these companies to admit

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Speaker 5: that things have gone wrong in the past, but it's

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Speaker 5: another altogether to look forward and actually make changes that

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Speaker 5: make people safer, because ultimately they have this strange duty

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Speaker 5: of care now that they are responsible for what happens

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Speaker 5: on their apps. Yea, what do they actually do we

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Speaker 5: interchanges to stop it from happening again.

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Speaker 2: Well, traditionally, social media companies can be a bit cagey

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Speaker 2: about who exactly they charge with the responsibility of monitoring

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Speaker 2: harmful content on their platforms. You know, even to the

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Speaker 2: point where we haven't known previously how many people are

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Speaker 2: sitting in a room monitoring that really harmful content. We

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Speaker 2: did get some numbers in this inquiry, TikTok and Meta

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Speaker 2: said they each employ about forty thousand people involved in safety,

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Speaker 2: and it's a very broad term, but that's kind of

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Speaker 2: the best we've got for now. X says that it's

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Speaker 2: got twenty three hundred people, and Snapchat said they have

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Speaker 2: two thousand people now. Discord, which is a messaging platform

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Speaker 2: that was originally popular with gamers, it said it had

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Speaker 2: a safety team of hundreds, and that's really interesting because

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Speaker 2: it's one of the fastest growing social media apps.

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Speaker 5: Do you think anything will actually change.

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Speaker 2: I think now that social media companies, especially their executives,

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Speaker 2: know that there's a precedent of them fronting up to government,

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Speaker 2: they're going to consistently have to invest in being ahead

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Speaker 2: of the game in terms of safety. I don't think

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Speaker 2: anything will change for users really quickly. At least. These

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Speaker 2: are really slow moving beasts. And you know, when a

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Speaker 2: sixteen year old in whichever country is getting abusive messages,

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Speaker 2: it takes a while for that to be nutted out

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Speaker 2: at a policy level or at a mechanic level and

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Speaker 2: stop that from happening across the board. But yes, I

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Speaker 2: think that there will be a constant focus on this now,

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Speaker 2: I mean Senators are actually asking the social media executives

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Speaker 2: to support a new law they're calling the Kids Online

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Speaker 2: Safety Act, and that law would require the websites and

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Speaker 2: social media companies to actually take those reasonable steps to

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Speaker 2: protect their users, So it becomes a legal obligation with

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Speaker 2: legal consequences if they don't. And in that they've captured bullying,

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Speaker 2: substance use, eating disorders, and sexual abuse. Now X and

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Speaker 2: snapchats say they're not supporting the act. They're not in

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Speaker 2: favor of that happening, and discord Meta and TikTok didn't

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Speaker 2: explicitly back it, but they said they're not apos to it.

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Speaker 2: So that debate on the bill is going to keep

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Speaker 2: happening over in Congress, and we're going to keep you

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Speaker 2: updated as that moves through the House.

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Speaker 5: What do you think, I think nothing will change? Why not, though,

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Speaker 5: because they're private companies.

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Speaker 2: And don't you think they're incentivized to keep social media

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Speaker 2: to be a happy place.

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Speaker 5: I don't think social media was ever a happy place, right,

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Speaker 5: And I think that the more airtime we give, you know,

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Speaker 5: we are talking about them, we are all so reliant

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Speaker 5: on them. They know that they have us and I

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Speaker 5: think we're a long way away from there being any

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Speaker 5: sort of responsibility taken. I think that they almost have

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Speaker 5: more power than the lawmakers and the decision makers, especially

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Speaker 5: in the US.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that would change if a social media

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Speaker 2: executive went to jail? I don't know, because that's what

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Speaker 2: happened in banking, right, is that all of these companies

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Speaker 2: which were so reliant on kind of did whatever they

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Speaker 2: wanted for a while with impunity. And when CEOs and

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Speaker 2: board members and executives started getting prosecuted, that's when decision

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Speaker 2: made because in these companies started to go, Okay, we

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Speaker 2: need to pick up our game. Interesting is that what

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Speaker 2: it takes well with the log moving through Congress, that

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Speaker 2: could in fact become a reality for social media companies.

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Speaker 2: So we'll definitely keep you up to speed. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for joining us on the Daily Ours. Have a wonderful

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Speaker 2: start to the week. We'll be back again tomorrow. Have

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Speaker 2: a great day.

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Speaker 1: Already and this is.

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Speaker 3: The Daily Ours. Oh now it makes sense.