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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now is Marian Scrimjaw,

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Speaker 1: Labour's member for Lingiari.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Marian, Good morning Katie. Thanks so

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Speaker 2: much for your time.

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Speaker 1: Now, Marian, you've made headlines this morning in the Australian

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Speaker 1: newspaper for saying, well, I'm going to be honest, what

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Speaker 1: a lot of Territorians are thinking right now. You've said

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Speaker 1: that youth justice laws need to stop treating criminal minors

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Speaker 1: as little angels and start applying tough love to lawless children. Marian,

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Speaker 1: what led you to make these comments?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I think Katie, it's not about saying that

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Speaker 3: we need to turn our backs and just lock all

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Speaker 3: these kids up. What it's saying to both the federal

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Speaker 3: government but also the Northern Territory. The Federal government's put

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Speaker 3: a lot of funding and resources into Central Australia, but

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Speaker 3: we need to work with the Northern Territory government to

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Speaker 3: look at how do we put in place, you know,

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Speaker 3: like we've got to. We can't keep talking about this

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Speaker 3: issue when people are feeling unsafe in their homes and

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Speaker 3: you know a lot of this stuff is getting unchecked.

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Speaker 3: It's not the fault of police. Like police, I think

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Speaker 3: just as under resource and under pressure to deliver. I

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Speaker 3: think that there's got to be a whole rethink and

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Speaker 3: of working together between the Northern Territory and the federal

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Speaker 3: government to look at family responsibility agreements, which I've talked

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Speaker 3: about previous locati. You know, like we've got to stop

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Speaker 3: talking about this self and getting some action happening. And

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Speaker 3: I suppose you know, my thoughts came on the end

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Speaker 3: of you know, it was weeks of despite a lot

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Speaker 3: of investment by the Comwealth governments, we are still seeing

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Speaker 3: these issues flare up in Alice Springs but also central Australia.

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Speaker 3: It's not just you know, and I often say to people,

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Speaker 3: it's not just about Alice Sprains. Use issues right across

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Speaker 3: the Northern Territory needs a real rethink because you know,

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Speaker 3: there are some emerging issues that are happening right across

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Speaker 3: Australia and I think the Northern Territory is no different.

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Speaker 3: We're not quarantine from that, we're a small population. Surely

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Speaker 3: we all need to come together and look at what

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Speaker 3: solutions need to be put in place, and not be

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Speaker 3: afraid to call out bad behavior, but to look at

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Speaker 3: why is that behavior happening? And let's deal with it.

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Speaker 3: Let's not think that it's okay for you know, this

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Speaker 3: to go unchecked or unabated, and people should feel upsafe.

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Speaker 2: Marion, I want to ask you.

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Speaker 1: We just caught up with Bill Yan a short time ago.

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Speaker 1: He actually revealed and he said it's not something that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to really talk about publicly, but he actually

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Speaker 1: ended up in a situation about three weeks ago where

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Speaker 1: he was set upon by a group of kids. They

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Speaker 1: had rocks, they had sticks, one had a steel bar

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Speaker 1: and an ankle bracelet on while he was rendering assistance,

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Speaker 1: I believe to people nearby.

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Speaker 2: I also know.

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Speaker 1: That you've revealed to the Australian newspaper that your home

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Speaker 1: was broken into while you were sleeping last month.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, tell me what happened.

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Speaker 1: To you firstly in this instance of your home being

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Speaker 1: broken into.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, Katie, what was really frightening was that I

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Speaker 3: had my grandson down visiting from Darwin and it was

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Speaker 3: lucky that he locked the door from the inside because

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Speaker 3: they'd broken into my hat were my husband and I

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Speaker 3: we were sleep in the other rooms. I didn't hear them.

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Speaker 3: They'd come in through the back door. They'd searched through

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Speaker 3: the house, and obviously they were looking for keys and

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Speaker 3: money and other things. They went out and they went

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Speaker 3: around to the main bedroom and they'd cracked the window,

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Speaker 3: so they were coming through our bedroom windows. And it

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Speaker 3: was only that I because I was fuss and I

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Speaker 3: don't know, maybe someone was watching over me, but I

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Speaker 3: heard it whispering, and so I opened my eyes and

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Speaker 3: I had a look on the wall where the curtain

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Speaker 3: was opened a bus and I could see, you know,

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Speaker 3: the outline of the person near the windows, and they'd

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Speaker 3: already smashed the window, and I sort of poked my

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Speaker 3: husband said, I can't someone trying to break into the house,

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Speaker 3: and he jumped up. We came outside. They'd run out,

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Speaker 3: but it was there, and then we stopped. And then

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Speaker 3: when we realized that they'd been in the house, you know,

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Speaker 3: I checked on my grandson, you know, in the room

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Speaker 3: that he was sleeping in, and we looked outside and

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Speaker 3: we could see where they've prized open. They've used, you know,

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Speaker 3: a thing to come in through the back door. Now,

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Speaker 3: you know, every night in our spread tis you know,

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Speaker 3: I've been finding it really hard to sleep, and part

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Speaker 3: of it is and I think that's how a lot

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Speaker 3: of people are feeling cases that you know, that people

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Speaker 3: that inability to sleep because people are scared that you know,

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Speaker 3: the the home invasions and people, you know, these young

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Speaker 3: people coming in, you know, coming into your personal space

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Speaker 3: is quite a frightening thing to experience it, you know,

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Speaker 3: Like Bil, we know these kids need we know these

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Speaker 3: kids need help, and we need to we need to

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Speaker 3: get that happening. We need to have and I've advocated before,

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Speaker 3: we've got to have safe and secure facilities, not boarding facilities.

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Speaker 3: We've got to have somewhere where we can take these

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Speaker 3: kids too. But we've got to have some way in

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Speaker 3: which to tie parents to this because governments, whilst they

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Speaker 3: can do the first step, we've got to make sure

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Speaker 3: that families take responsibilities for there.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, does he need to be does he

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Speaker 1: need to be quarantining of welfare? Does he need to

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Speaker 1: be some kind of change here where if you are

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Speaker 1: not looking after your child adequately, if you are not

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Speaker 1: making sure that they're going to school, that I don't know,

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Speaker 1: does he need to be some kind of change to welfare?

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Speaker 3: Well, income management didn't cease in the Northern Territory. We

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Speaker 3: still have that in play. In the Northern Territory so

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Speaker 3: to June or in other places where the Indue card

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Speaker 3: or the castiscepic card was removed, in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: that still applies. So you know, I just think that

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Speaker 3: all of this needs to be wrapped around a Family

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Speaker 3: and Responsibility agreement. Now, whilst everyone points the finger at police,

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Speaker 3: I think that there's got to be a look at

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Speaker 3: and a review of the role of Territory Families because

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Speaker 3: they are the one agency that charted with the care

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Speaker 3: and protection of young people. And I think that with

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Speaker 3: the Commonwealth Department of Social Services, some of this can

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Speaker 3: all be wrapped together to try and get a better

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Speaker 3: outcome than what's happening at the moment, brother than everyone

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Speaker 3: standing separately. And that's why I'm saying the Commonwealth and

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Speaker 3: the Northern Territory need to work together urgently and in

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Speaker 3: an open, transparent way to try and deal with this.

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Speaker 3: So I've been talking about this now, you know, katie'een

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Speaker 3: months I've been a member, and you know, it keeps

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Speaker 3: people keep saying no, we don't need a commission, No

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Speaker 3: we don't need this, or you know, if people are

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Speaker 3: saying no we don't need this well, what is it that.

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Speaker 2: We need exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: Nobody is coming back and saying, well, this is what

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Speaker 3: because more of the same isn't working. And I fear

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Speaker 3: for these little ones. These kids need help. It's not

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Speaker 3: about chucking them in don Dale. I don't advocate criminalizations

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Speaker 3: and chucking these kids in jail, but something does need

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Speaker 3: to give here, Marion. I want to take it to

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go that way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I want to take it to an incident

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Speaker 1: that happened up here in the top End just a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago.

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Speaker 2: Right, we're in a situation where we were.

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Speaker 1: Reporting that a car had been carjack Now, the info

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Speaker 1: came through them from the police, and and it's alleged

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Speaker 1: that a group of four youths that they put a

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Speaker 1: bike in the middle of the road. So a good

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Speaker 1: Samaritan's pulled up to move that bike. As that good

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Speaker 1: Samaritan's gone to move that bike, they were ambushed by

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Speaker 1: this group of kids with a machete who then stole

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Speaker 1: his car. Now, I spoke to the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 1: about it yesterday, and and one of those kids was

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Speaker 1: eleven years old. Allegedly, we don't know the ages of

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Speaker 1: the others. But I asked the Northern Territory Acting Deputy

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner Martin Dole, who you.

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Speaker 2: Know, was really honest about it.

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Speaker 1: How you know what the process is then for these

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Speaker 1: kids getting bailed. Just take a listen to what Martin

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Speaker 1: Dole had to say yesterday on the show. How is

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Speaker 1: it sort of determined then, whether you know, the three

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Speaker 1: that were there are obviously of an age where they

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Speaker 1: are actually able to be charged, How is it then

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Speaker 1: determined whether they get.

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Speaker 2: Bail or not.

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Speaker 4: So bail considerations are guided by the the there's two

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Speaker 4: parts of the legislation. There's the Youth Justice and Considerations

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Speaker 4: and then there's the Bail Act. So these stringent conditions

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Speaker 4: that we have to abide by when we're considering that bail.

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Speaker 4: And that's what would have occurred in these circumstances. So

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Speaker 4: I don't have the details whether or not they were,

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Speaker 4: at least with electronic monitoring, what the bail conditions were,

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Speaker 4: but there's strict guidelines that our police officers go through

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Speaker 4: before they make that determination.

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Speaker 1: Look, I know I can preempt people listening to the

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Speaker 1: show this morning going how on earth can you ambush

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Speaker 1: someone with a machete and then end up on bail.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I know, and I hear those concerns of the public, Katie,

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Speaker 4: but we work within the legislation parameters that we've got,

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Speaker 4: and our guys and girls are out there making sure

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Speaker 4: that these offenders are held accountable and are put before

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Speaker 4: the course.

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Speaker 1: So Marion, that was Martin Dole on the show yesterday,

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Speaker 1: and I'm with you, like, I don't think we need

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Speaker 1: to chuck every kid in jail.

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Speaker 2: That's not what I'm suggesting.

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Speaker 1: But we've got a situation where four kids and bush

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Speaker 1: someone with a machete. The eleven year old's taken home

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Speaker 1: to a responsible parent, the other three obviously out on bailock.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that whole situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think Katie, and I agree with Martin.

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Speaker 3: I think you know, they police and prosecutors and everyone

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Speaker 3: does everything for the letter of the law and the legislation.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the Chief Minister Eva, I think you know,

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Speaker 3: I fully support Eva and what she's trying to do here.

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Speaker 3: I've said to her that I think the youth just

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Speaker 3: is that as well as the care and protection of

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Speaker 3: young people need to be tweeked and we need to

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Speaker 3: look at well, if the sentencing and the bail, you know,

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Speaker 3: if so for if someone is going to be bailed,

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Speaker 3: where do they get bailed to? And that's the issue

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Speaker 3: is that you know, they don't just get bailed out

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Speaker 3: on the streets. But we've got to have these we've

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Speaker 3: got to have safe and secure facilities, not don Dale,

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Speaker 3: but places where we can take young people too and

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Speaker 3: work can start being done with them. Now, there are

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Speaker 3: some kids that are just going to completely fall through

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Speaker 3: all of that, Katie, that they're not going to respond

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Speaker 3: to any sort of treatmental care, and they will just

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Speaker 3: stay on that trajectory of, you know, with a life

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Speaker 3: of crime and they'll end up in jail. But there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of these kids. You can divers them and

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Speaker 3: the police used to run a fantastic diversion program and

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Speaker 3: that was well resourced, and there's a lot of kids

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Speaker 3: in communities and around the territory that used to be

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Speaker 3: diverted away from a life of crime. Now that takes

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Speaker 3: money and resources and people and we've but we've got

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Speaker 3: to start somewhere and the legislation has to be able

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Speaker 3: to reflect that.

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Speaker 1: Marion, do you think the raising of the criminal age

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Speaker 1: has helped in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think that that you know, everyone it's a

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Speaker 3: you know, a simplistic thing for everyone to think that

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Speaker 3: the raising the age of criminal responsibility is the problem,

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Speaker 3: But it's not, Katie. Look, I think when that was

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Speaker 3: put in place, what should have been complimented and they've

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Speaker 3: got it in the Act and other places. When that happened,

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Speaker 3: they had all of the programs and facilities stepped up

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Speaker 3: before that legislation went into Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that is what Chancey Peig told us was

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Speaker 1: going to happen. Chancey peg had told us that that

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Speaker 1: was indeed what was going to happen.

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't feel like it has.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, and I think that we've got to all

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Speaker 3: work together to make this happen. Now, you know, we

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Speaker 3: can't keep saying because the federal government and this is

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Speaker 3: where I'm taking this up internally in the federal government, yep, Katie,

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Speaker 3: is that whilst we've put a lot of funding on

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Speaker 3: the table, I want to know what the outcome is

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Speaker 3: of you know, the department that is charged with implementing

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Speaker 3: this with the Northern Teritory government. Have we done that?

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Speaker 3: So it's not just the Northern Territory government that's at

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Speaker 3: fault here. Have we done the right thing in terms

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Speaker 3: of the Commonwealth? Have we whilst the funding is there

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Speaker 3: in those agencies, have we finalized those agreements and made

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Speaker 3: sure that those programs are rolling out? And that's my

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Speaker 3: concern and that's something that certainly I will take up

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Speaker 3: because I don't think that this is all the Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory at faulty and I need to have a look

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Speaker 3: at kids. Have we have our Commonwealth's agencies actually you know,

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Speaker 3: rolled out this program appropriately.

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Speaker 2: Marion.

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Speaker 1: You know, like you said before, you and I have spoken.

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Speaker 1: We've spoken on so many occasions about this issue. You

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Speaker 1: have been speaking about it since you were elected, speak

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Speaker 1: about it every single.

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Speaker 2: Day on the show. It is by far and beyond the.

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Speaker 1: Biggest issue on Territorian's minds, that issue of crime and safety.

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Speaker 1: What can happen like today to try and make some

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Speaker 1: change here, because you know, the Northern Territory government is saying, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: we are going to be reviewing the Youth Justice Act,

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Speaker 1: but that's going to have that's going to take.

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Speaker 2: Until the end of this year.

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Speaker 1: People don't have until the end of this year, like

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Speaker 1: they've had a gutfull.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're and we're losing a lot of people

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Speaker 3: from their territory. You know, this is a good place

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Speaker 3: to live and work and raise a family, Katie, you

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Speaker 3: know that, and that's just not been for me. I've

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Speaker 3: lived here all my life. Yep, You've you've you've you've

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Speaker 3: brought up and you you're raising your kids as well.

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Speaker 3: You know, like it's a good place and we've got

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Speaker 3: to we've got to deal with some of these issues.

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Speaker 3: And I think I think across Australia there is an

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Speaker 3: issue with youth across the boards. And I actually think

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Speaker 3: that you know, federally, we could probably show some leadership

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Speaker 3: and looking at how do we get how do we

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Speaker 3: get you know, discussions happen, you know, we need to

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Speaker 3: pull and it's not you know, this is out of

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Speaker 3: my ray way. This is the Prime Minister and other ministers.

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Speaker 3: But I actually think that there has to be you know,

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Speaker 3: some some bringing together of everybody, you know, because there's

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Speaker 3: a problem right across the board. I was talking to

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Speaker 3: the member who sits in Townsville and he was saying

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Speaker 3: it's anarchy and he says, but he did say to me,

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Speaker 3: it's not just Aboriginal kids marrit Yeah, it's you know,

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Speaker 3: there are non Aboriginal youth that are running a mark

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Speaker 3: as well. So you know, obviously each day in territory

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Speaker 3: are facing challenges in terms of youth and the problems

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Speaker 3: associated with that. I'm you know, I think the Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory we could lead the way with some of this

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Speaker 3: has been innovative, you know, programs and processes. There was

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Speaker 3: innovative legislation that was put before in terms of and

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Speaker 3: contemporary under the Care and Protection I think that both

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Speaker 3: the Youth Justice Act and the Care and Protection Act

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Speaker 3: there can be amendments made which would put us on

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Speaker 3: a path of trying to deal with some of these

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Speaker 3: issues now and into the future. Katie. And that's something

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Speaker 3: that legislators need to come together with the Chief Minister,

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Speaker 3: because I know that Eva has a commitment and she

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Speaker 3: wants to get this happening. We all want to fix

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Speaker 3: up what's happening in Catherine and Tennant, you know, and

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Speaker 3: in and around Darwin. I had a friend whose house

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Speaker 3: was ransacked the other day in Darwen. So you know,

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Speaker 3: we've just got to deal with these issues and stop

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Speaker 3: you know, making excuses. But I'll have a chat with

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Speaker 3: the Chief Minister. I've talked to the Attorney General Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory Attorney General this morning. I just think we've got

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Speaker 3: to you know, like there's got sittings coming up. There's

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Speaker 3: things that can be done in terms of legislation that

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Speaker 3: I think needs to come forward.

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Speaker 1: Marion, Are you gonna have a chat to the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister about this as well?

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Speaker 3: Look, I'm heading down to Camber on Saturday, Katie.

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Speaker 2: As always.

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Speaker 3: You know, I have a good relationship with people in

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Speaker 3: the Prime Minister's office and you know I'll have those

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Speaker 3: discussions with him, that with Linda and with MELANDERI as well,

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Speaker 3: and with Luke Gobbling. You know, as a territory contingent,

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Speaker 3: we we have a lot of conversations. We are concerned

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Speaker 3: and we'll all talk, you know, we we will come

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Speaker 3: together when I when we get down there, to look

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Speaker 3: at what do we need to do in the interest

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Speaker 3: of the territory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, something's got to happen. Something has seriously got to change.

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Speaker 1: I mean to put it really blunty, and I know

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Speaker 1: that you know this, but people are literally begging for

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Speaker 1: that change, Marion, and they're feeling like the Northern territory

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Speaker 1: government isn't going to deliver it. And so when you know,

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Speaker 1: when you make comments like you have today, they're looking

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Speaker 1: at you and thinking, please help.

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Speaker 3: Us, So we do have to. It is almost like

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Speaker 3: we've clichaped the territory Katie and make sure that people

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Speaker 3: feel safe. Yeah, that's what this is all about. It's

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Speaker 3: not about marine screen during grandstanding, and that's you know,

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Speaker 3: like everyone is entitled to feel safe, to be in

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Speaker 3: your car, driving wherever. You shouldn't have to pull up

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Speaker 3: and have your car hijacked or you know, your home invaders.

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Speaker 3: Everyone needs to feel safe, and that's what we've got

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Speaker 3: to get to. But we've got to get some support

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Speaker 3: to these young people, you know, I think that's what

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Speaker 3: we've got. We've got to there's a level of lawlessness

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Speaker 3: out there, but is it because those young people are

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Speaker 3: calling out for help? I, you know, like I, you know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes I'm the rest of you know some of this too, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I can think what's the answers here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Marian, I really appreciate you having your chat.

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Speaker 2: As always.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate your honesty and the fact that you speak

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Speaker 1: frankly and you don't always say exactly what your party

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Speaker 1: probably wants to hear, but you know what, people respect that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, thank you