WEBVTT - Feeling Delulu? 🤪 Let's Snap You Out Of It 💞

0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Flex and Frooms, Flex and Frooms. This is the Flex

0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:08.880
<v Speaker 1>and Frooms catch up podcast. Have Your Flex Ever heard

0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.879
<v Speaker 1>of the term limerens? I have, Yes. What does it mean?

0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:18.680
<v Speaker 2>I would say limerens is that obsessive state you find

0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.800
<v Speaker 2>yourself in at the beginning of a crush, where you

0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.240
<v Speaker 2>are just so swamped by thoughts of them and fantasies

0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.639
<v Speaker 2>of them, and you live more in the delusion of

0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.080
<v Speaker 2>the situation than the reality.

0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.479
<v Speaker 1>You are so spot on, my darling, look at that

0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.000
<v Speaker 1>face of satisfaction that you deserve to be weary. So

0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.840
<v Speaker 1>this I brought this up as like an urgent psa

0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.440
<v Speaker 1>urgent for the girlies, and by girlies, I'm in every

0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:44.040
<v Speaker 1>single person.

0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.479
<v Speaker 2>When we say girlies, we truly mean everyone.

0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.519
<v Speaker 1>Seriously. It's like when you say the everyman, or like

0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.880
<v Speaker 1>God created man, God created girlie. Yes, this is what

0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.440
<v Speaker 1>the girlies who gets obsessed with crushes. It actually has

0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.280
<v Speaker 1>a word. It's called limerens. We have spoken about this

0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.280
<v Speaker 1>before on our pod, but actually wanted to go more

0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.639
<v Speaker 1>in depth because I just think that the term crush

0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.920
<v Speaker 1>does not encapsulate an experience that adults can go through

0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.880
<v Speaker 1>when they start seeing someone or etc.

0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:18.240
<v Speaker 2>And not every crush is limerent, and not every limerent

0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.119
<v Speaker 2>behavior is due to a crush. Sometimes we just are

0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:26.360
<v Speaker 2>delusional and obsessive, and sometimes we are just appreciative in

0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:27.800
<v Speaker 2>a very extreme way.

0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.720
<v Speaker 1>So, yes, you can become obsessed to things that aren't romantic.

0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:32.920
<v Speaker 1>But often when we talk about limerens, we're talking about

0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:37.000
<v Speaker 1>romantic infatuations, often with a sexual element. So it is

0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:39.920
<v Speaker 1>a state of mind which results from romantic feelings for

0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:44.639
<v Speaker 1>another person and includes intrusive, melancholic thoughts, or sometimes tragic

0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.600
<v Speaker 1>concerns for the object of one's affection, as well as

0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.640
<v Speaker 1>the extreme desire to form or maintain a relationship and

0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.960
<v Speaker 1>have one's feelings reciprocated. Often, limerence is made worse when

0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.240
<v Speaker 1>there is not reciprocated desire. It can also be defined

0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.480
<v Speaker 1>as an involuntary state of intense desire. Oh, that's a

0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:03.760
<v Speaker 1>nice way to put it, isn't it. Limerence is and

0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.520
<v Speaker 1>I think you're going to really like this. Whoever's listening,

0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.679
<v Speaker 1>who gets obsessed with crushes? It is an involuntary, potentially

0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.720
<v Speaker 1>inspiring state of adoration and attachment to a limerent object.

0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:12.919
<v Speaker 2>Eg.

0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.799
<v Speaker 1>You're crush involving intrusive, obsessive thoughts, feelings, and behaviors from

0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.440
<v Speaker 1>euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation. So how

0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.480
<v Speaker 1>does that work in the modern day. It's texting. Someone

0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.960
<v Speaker 1>texts you, they text you back, you feel euphoria, you're

0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.320
<v Speaker 1>waiting on their text. We're going through the despair cycle.

0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.280
<v Speaker 1>That is essentially a key part of limerence. It is

0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.440
<v Speaker 1>characterized by internal experiences like ruminative thinking, anxiety and depression,

0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:42.720
<v Speaker 1>temporary fixation, and the disregulization dysregulation of the self. So

0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.080
<v Speaker 1>if you are perhaps an OCD girly bit of an

0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.320
<v Speaker 1>obsessive type, you are anxious or maybe even on the spectrum,

0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and you sometimes find that you will go through fixations.

0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:57.560
<v Speaker 1>I think you might experience this. If you're wondering how

0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.560
<v Speaker 1>do I discern limerence verse love? Think think we really

0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.200
<v Speaker 1>need to think of this in the early stages of dating.

0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.040
<v Speaker 1>So the texting context, the context where you're not exclusive,

0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.000
<v Speaker 1>you haven't defined a relationship. Are we talking a situation?

0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Is this going to be my future hubby, wife, life partner? Partner?

0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.040
<v Speaker 1>In quotations because you know, we don't use that term

0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.919
<v Speaker 1>P in the Flex and Frooms show, and one of

0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.880
<v Speaker 1>the original philosophers who spoke about this ten of differentiates

0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.280
<v Speaker 1>limreents and love by asserting that love involves concern for

0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.359
<v Speaker 1>the other person's welfare and feeling yeah, whereas limerence does

0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.800
<v Speaker 1>not require it. So you can really be obsessed with

0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.400
<v Speaker 1>someone and it feels like love, and you have all

0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.200
<v Speaker 1>of these really intense emotions. We actually don't care about

0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.320
<v Speaker 1>their welfare. You don't really care if they're happy. You

0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.560
<v Speaker 1>just want them so badly that your judgment is clouded,

0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:48.160
<v Speaker 1>otherwise known in this modern dating context as being d lulu. Yeah.

0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I would also say, and what I've come to

0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.280
<v Speaker 2>understand from limerens is that it's a very individual process,

0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.440
<v Speaker 2>as in the person that you're dealing with isn't really

0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.080
<v Speaker 2>influencing your limeren state. It kind of exists in your

0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.800
<v Speaker 2>bubble where you decide it's going well or not going

0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.920
<v Speaker 2>well based on whatever how you're feeling, what you want

0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.480
<v Speaker 2>from them, whether you're happy in a different part of

0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.000
<v Speaker 2>your life. It all kind of puts pressure on your

0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.680
<v Speaker 2>perception on what it is or how it is, and

0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:17.720
<v Speaker 2>if you wants it or not.

0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:20.599
<v Speaker 1>I think you need to ask yourself first and foremost,

0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:22.839
<v Speaker 1>and even if it isn't limberate even if you're like

0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.920
<v Speaker 1>in the seeing stage of someone, I think you need

0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.159
<v Speaker 1>to ask yourself what do you actually like about this process? So,

0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:29.960
<v Speaker 1>of course, I think when you start dating someone, when

0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.440
<v Speaker 1>you have a crush, it is really exciting, and part

0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.880
<v Speaker 1>of that is like not knowing how it's going to go.

0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:36.640
<v Speaker 1>So I think, like, of course that's going to be

0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.279
<v Speaker 1>enjoyable and bring up a lot of different emotions. But

0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.280
<v Speaker 1>if it's actually on the whole making you unhappy, drawing

0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.960
<v Speaker 1>you away from your life, then we need to start

0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:50.440
<v Speaker 1>reassessing a is this on you to, as we say,

0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.360
<v Speaker 1>get another hobby, or is it perhaps the way they're

0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.400
<v Speaker 1>behaving that is making you feel or that is influencing

0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:57.560
<v Speaker 1>an insecure mindset?

0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.719
<v Speaker 2>And I will say the difference between limerents and a

0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.479
<v Speaker 2>craw I've read is that limerens kind of feels like

0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:08.479
<v Speaker 2>an obsession despite the reality, and a crush is kind

0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.680
<v Speaker 2>of like an attraction based on who the person is,

0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm attracted to what they look like, I'm attracted

0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.440
<v Speaker 2>to the way they speak, I'm attracted to how they

0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.120
<v Speaker 2>show up in the world. It centers them, it pedestalizes

0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of them and your relationship with them, whereas limerence

0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of obsesses over the fantasy and the possibility, sometimes

0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.400
<v Speaker 2>influenced by what they've said or done, but wholly influenced

0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:33.400
<v Speaker 2>by just what you want.

0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes, wow, okay, I think something that you should think of.

0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:43.040
<v Speaker 1>And I've fallen into this trap before, is what is

0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.640
<v Speaker 1>having this intense crush serving you? So I have found

0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.000
<v Speaker 1>in the past times in my life where I've not

0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:54.080
<v Speaker 1>had enough on is when the crushes have been the

0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.560
<v Speaker 1>most crushing set to speak. So, I've been through an

0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.640
<v Speaker 1>experience before where like I've had a relation ship end

0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.400
<v Speaker 1>and I could have gotten it back, but they did

0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.200
<v Speaker 1>something for example that I was just like, I can't

0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.440
<v Speaker 1>go there. Then for a whole year they are a

0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.600
<v Speaker 1>liminent object to me, even though I don't want them.

0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.520
<v Speaker 1>They have become this kind of like like a better

0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.800
<v Speaker 1>erge symbol and obsession. That is, it's not even about them,

0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.039
<v Speaker 1>because then you know, I had this experience once and

0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:25.640
<v Speaker 1>I caught up with them a little while later. It's

0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.479
<v Speaker 1>like the illusion was shattered. It was all in my head.

0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:31.680
<v Speaker 1>It was always this guests game, what are they thinking?

0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Am I going to see them? Da da da da da?

0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:35.719
<v Speaker 1>And it was very interesting that it actually wasn't contingent

0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.120
<v Speaker 1>on whether or not they liked me back, because they

0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of did. Well, I knew that they did, but

0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.040
<v Speaker 1>I in my mind had like made up that we

0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.920
<v Speaker 1>were never going to get back together. Does that kind

0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.040
<v Speaker 1>of make sense? So it wasn't a crush, but it

0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.400
<v Speaker 1>was this kind of obsession. And I will say, I

0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:55.200
<v Speaker 1>reckon if you are prone to OCD or obsessional thinking,

0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it's very likely that you will have an

0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:03.039
<v Speaker 1>experience like this in your dating life. If you experience limitents,

0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:07.360
<v Speaker 1>but you haven't experienced obsessional thinking with anxiety. That's what

0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.000
<v Speaker 1>like in my experience, Obsessional thinking with anxiety is lack

0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.360
<v Speaker 1>but it's something that's not fun. So at least with

0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.600
<v Speaker 1>the crush element, you've got something fun to fantasize about.

0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.720
<v Speaker 1>I reckon as well. Think about in your life. So

0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:19.520
<v Speaker 1>let's say you're in a liminerent phase with someone, You're

0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.520
<v Speaker 1>in a bit of a delulu moment. Think what am

0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.400
<v Speaker 1>I procrastinating? So I'm currently in this process of doing

0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.840
<v Speaker 1>this really difficult thing which requires me to be really focused,

0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.360
<v Speaker 1>which is writing the book. So tell me why I'm

0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.320
<v Speaker 1>choosing any opportunity to be distracted. I'm getting crushes, I'm

0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.120
<v Speaker 1>cleaning the house, like I'm doing all this stuff that's

0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:42.120
<v Speaker 1>totally like making the procrastination so much worse. And then

0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.120
<v Speaker 1>I've had to kind of reflect back and think, oh

0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.640
<v Speaker 1>my god, did I even have a crush on that person?

0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Did I even need to clean the house?

0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Like?

0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Did I even? It's very funny and I think, like

0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:54.600
<v Speaker 1>it's very hard to do in the moment, and I

0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.200
<v Speaker 1>can actually only do this with hindsight. But think about

0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.200
<v Speaker 1>what are you actually procrastinating, because it's often something that

0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.400
<v Speaker 1>is not an easy fix. And finally, think about, and

0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.240
<v Speaker 1>I've written this down, think about if this person's behavior

0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.400
<v Speaker 1>is encouraging your preoccupation. Are they flaky? Do they take

0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.520
<v Speaker 1>ages to respond to texts? And then you must figure

0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.520
<v Speaker 1>out if this is something you're willing to tolerate. Verse

0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.360
<v Speaker 1>how entitled are you to their time and how they

0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.600
<v Speaker 1>spend it. This is where communication is key. Oh one

0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:29.160
<v Speaker 1>final thing, girls, listening what you want to do if

0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.680
<v Speaker 1>you have a limerent object, be where people that give you.

0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.280
<v Speaker 1>I hate using all these day terms, but also it

0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.920
<v Speaker 1>makes sense crumbs because if you're getting a little, even

0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.800
<v Speaker 1>a little tiny bit of hope. It is massive fuel

0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.640
<v Speaker 1>to the fire. It's like a firestarter. So starvation for

0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:48.280
<v Speaker 1>once is the answer in this process. A lack of

0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.600
<v Speaker 1>any notice so like an onslaught of evidence that the

0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.640
<v Speaker 1>limited object does not return the limerens can gradually desensitize you.

0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.080
<v Speaker 1>So in that case, I would say, girls and boys

0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.920
<v Speaker 1>and girlies, if you aren't sure if they.

0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:02.199
<v Speaker 2>Like you.

0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Talking to them, no, but like stop talking to them. Yeah,

0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.000
<v Speaker 1>But then I feel like in the back of our

0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:10.800
<v Speaker 1>little in the back of your mind, you're like, oh,

0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.400
<v Speaker 1>maybe if I stopped talking, then they really like me.

0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.559
<v Speaker 1>So do something like rip the bandit off and be like,

0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.320
<v Speaker 1>all right, what are your intentions? And then if they

0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:18.920
<v Speaker 1>make it clear that it's not what you want, then

0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.400
<v Speaker 1>you can like, don't you also.

0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Think like the the average person is just not good

0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:27.840
<v Speaker 2>with confrontation or having to justify what they feel. So like,

0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.080
<v Speaker 2>let's say you're in a limerate state. You have a crush,

0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.320
<v Speaker 2>You're not sure if they like you, but they've got

0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.679
<v Speaker 2>you in this despair dopamine cycle where they give you

0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.240
<v Speaker 2>a little crme, you get excited. They don't they don't

0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.160
<v Speaker 2>follow up, or they don't add more, they don't give

0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:43.960
<v Speaker 2>you more crumbs and you get into a despair and

0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.240
<v Speaker 2>then you might set up a shot so they can

0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.880
<v Speaker 2>take it. So you might like post, they'll see and

0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.240
<v Speaker 2>they'll acknowledge you and then give you another crime and

0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.880
<v Speaker 2>then you're back in the cycle. So is it an

0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.880
<v Speaker 2>option for example, if you're in this despair cycle, sorry,

0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:00.720
<v Speaker 2>if you're in this limerates cycle or that's triggered by

0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:06.559
<v Speaker 2>a person, if you remove yourself from the person, then

0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.000
<v Speaker 2>they can't give you a crumb.

0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.439
<v Speaker 1>So what would an example be like block their number potentially.

0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.720
<v Speaker 2>But also I think from what you mentioned in those

0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:20.160
<v Speaker 2>initial studies, Limerens has a lot just to do with you,

0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.040
<v Speaker 2>like how you're perceiving the situation. So it's one of

0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.319
<v Speaker 2>those well like they're not texting me because they're so intimidated,

0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, and they're just really nervous guys far out.

0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.240
<v Speaker 1>It's so that that we have this common like we

0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.600
<v Speaker 1>have these communication channels to like, it's so crazy how

0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:38.720
<v Speaker 1>you don't have a unique experience, which.

0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.280
<v Speaker 2>Is my favorite thing about being alive. I used to

0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.320
<v Speaker 2>be like, no one's done life, Like I've done life.

0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's done it. So TikTok exists and that's the best

0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.400
<v Speaker 1>thing about it. We're always having Listening to The Flex

0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.880
<v Speaker 1>and Froom's daily podcast. For more, Tune Indicator on DAB

0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:54.680
<v Speaker 1>or stream it on iHeartRadio.