1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:01,200 Speaker 1: This is Outspoken. 2 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 2: The podcast is not afraid to say exactly what you're thinking. 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: Our names are Amy Kay and Sophie Torba. We're identical triplets, 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 2: but we often don't have identical opinions, so sometimes things 5 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 2: can get heated. Outspoken covers all things reality TV, influencers, entertainment, 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 2: and issues facing women. 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: That is so fat. 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: Thank you, welcome back to Outspoken. It's so great to 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: be joining you guys on a Tuesday. It does feel 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: a little bit weird not having a Monday show, but 11 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: I think it's worked out perfectly because there has been 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: a lot of drama yesterday that we are going to 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 2: recap on Yeah, and we really wanted to switch to 14 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: having a Tuesday show as opposed to the Monday show 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: because we do work full time, so it's just easier 16 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: for us to juggle these days. And we also feel 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: like it gives us more of a chance to recap 18 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: and really go into what's happened over the weekend and 19 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: on Monday. And it seemed like a very good decision 20 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: this week because there was so much drama going down 21 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: on Monday and I'm I'm just exhausted from it all. 22 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 2: So on Monday Sophie Kaisha posted a series of Instagram 23 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: stories regarding our podcasts Now. The comments came following our 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: Friday show where we discussed how her new makeup brand, Asuru, 25 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: had been caught up in a health and safety breach. 26 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Now, just to. 27 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: Refresh your memory, Sophie posted a couple of Instagram stories 28 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: where she was wiping her nose whilst quality. 29 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: Testing the lipsticks. 30 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: So she seemed to take issue with the fact that 31 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 2: we had blocked her on Instagram, and this was after 32 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: she tagged us in a series of comments and also 33 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: had messaged us privately on Instagram in multiple accounts. Now 34 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: she was demanding to speak to us on the phone, 35 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: and we initially replied to a comment on a Zuru's 36 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: Instagram account confirming we had shared their full apology as 37 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: a rite of reply. 38 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: Now. 39 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: The reason we chose to block Sophie and cease any 40 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: further communication was she sent us what we deemed as 41 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: an intimidating message. She wrote, high team, just wondering if 42 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: I can grab a contact number for your company. I'd 43 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: love to have a chat to talk over a few 44 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: of my concerns if possible. I'd much prefer her to 45 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: do this directly rather than escalating it further. Thanks Sophie 46 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: now for some background information. The word escalate has legal 47 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: connotations and for those who don't know, we have been 48 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: involved in a high profile legal case and often people 49 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: with a disproportionate amount of power like to throw around 50 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 2: baseless legal threats, and the advice from my lawyer has 51 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 2: always been ignore these messages and this. 52 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: Is what we chose to do now. 53 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: Interestingly, Sophie didn't choose to share a screenshot of this DM. 54 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: She chose to include the DM where she didn't include 55 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: the line about escalating the situation, and I thought this 56 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: was rather misleading to her followers. Now, personally, we don't 57 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: feel comfortable to hand out our phone number, particularly because 58 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: Sophie Keisha is known for sharing people's private and personal 59 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 2: details to her followers on her story and driving negative 60 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: attention their way. And at the end of the day, 61 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: we are journalists reporting on stories. Every time there's an 62 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: entertainment story on kincut, they don't ring her up and 63 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: ask her for a reply. And the reason that we 64 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: didn't ask her for a reply was because she'd already 65 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: shared one on her business page. And when someone also 66 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: looks set to make legal threats towards you. From my 67 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 2: personal experience, it's best to keep that communication in a 68 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 2: written form, as it is illegal to record phone calls, 69 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: and also if you really need things in black and white, 70 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: otherwise lines get blurred. And let's be honest, there have 71 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: been so many stories floating around about influencers who send 72 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: these veil threats to people to intimidate them, to try 73 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: and make them stop talking about them. Now, I'm not 74 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: necessarily saying this is what Sophie is doing, but we 75 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: are not going to stand here and have people send 76 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: us baseless threats. And also, we have our email address 77 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: in our bio and on our Outspoken website, so there 78 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: are other means to reach us other than trying to 79 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: intimidate us in a situation on the phone. We also 80 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: wanted to use this segment to touch on Sophie's claims 81 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: that we have spoken about her on every episode, so 82 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: just to rebut that claim, we have gone through the 83 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: archives and we've only done six segments on Sophie Kasia 84 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: across two hundred and fifty of our episodes. So the 85 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: segments have been about her business's public apology, her fleeing 86 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: to Perth to be involved in a business woman's event 87 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: after Melbourne went into lockdown her memoir whether she's been 88 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 2: engaged and allegedly flouting lockdown rules. So nothing about her children, now, kay, 89 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: you have forgotten one segment. I believe a couple of 90 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: weeks ago we did touch on the fact that her 91 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: partner Maddie was recording her parts and we had. 92 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: A bit of a hustle, so that also was an inclusion. 93 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: And let's put this in perspective, that is two point 94 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 2: five percent of our podcast that we have youthed, that 95 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: we have spoken about her, So it's for eighty Your 96 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: math isn't great because it's not even two point five percent, 97 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: because there've been short segments on her that have been 98 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: the whole epistry. And I really think it's also important 99 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: to point out that Sophia has never messaged us about 100 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: commentary in our private Facebook group. The comment came after 101 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: we spoke about the business breach. Now, I just find 102 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: it really awkward that she's trying to drag her children 103 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: into this narrative because we have never commented on her children, 104 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: only on her behavior. And I think it's important to 105 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: note that, yes, there has been an influx of conversations 106 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: in our Facebook group about Sophie due to her appearance 107 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: on Survivor. Now, when I went through all the topics, 108 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 2: there was a topic of conversation around Sophie filming her 109 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: son's reaction to her getting kicked off Survivor, and a 110 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: lot of people were talking about how they didn't think 111 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: it was appropriate to share her son upset on her 112 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: Instagram story. And I think this is the difficulty with 113 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: mummy blogging and family channels, because unfortunately, when you do 114 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 2: share your child's private information on social media for your 115 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 2: own personal gain, it is going to result in people 116 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: commenting on your parenting style. Now, Sophie continued her post 117 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: by saying that she would never allow this type of 118 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: behavior that goes on in our group to exist on 119 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 2: any of her business platforms. And I do find this 120 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: quite interesting because she then followed this up by sharing 121 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: a private message between her and her ex husband where 122 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 2: he called us the C word. Now on this screen, 123 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: she added a gift that said you right, so it 124 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: was as though she were saying she agreed with the 125 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: sentiment shared by her ex husband. Sophie then continued to 126 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: say that we need to put our big girl pants 127 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: on and have an adult conversation with her. Now, this 128 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 2: constant need to tell us to grow up and put 129 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: our big girl pants on is very misogynistic. 130 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: So later that day, Sophie. 131 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: Jumped back on her instant stories to say she was 132 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: done with cancel culture. In a three minute chat, she 133 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: said she had had enough of people trying to hold 134 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: her accountable for mistakes she makes. Now, I'm sorry, but 135 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: if you choose to be a public figure, then you 136 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: will be accountable for mistakes that you make on. 137 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: A large scale. 138 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: You don't simply get all of the perks of being 139 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: an influencer without your behavior being held accountable or simply 140 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 2: being reported on. I know it's like, can you imagine 141 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: at your normal nine to five if someone told you 142 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: off and he said, no, I don't want to be 143 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: held accountable for this. This isn't how I feel. I 144 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: don't want my paycheck and go home and not be 145 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: held accountable for mistakes that I made. And as an influencer, 146 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: it does come with a certain life level of power. 147 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: So I think that's all a bit of a cop 148 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: out to say it, And I just think if influencers 149 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: were better at acknowledging their mistakes and taking on board 150 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: that accountability. We wouldn't be discussing this now. She also 151 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: went on to say that she is a very reasonable 152 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: person and she'd be happy for us to take this offline. 153 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: She suggested it was a beautiful opportunity for the four 154 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: of us to come together and show how women can 155 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: come together and acknowledge their mistake. Now, while lot of 156 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: contexts that might sound quite lovely, to put it into perspective, 157 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: she had a caption over this story which said, I 158 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: can assure you I think lower currently of your characters 159 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: than you could ever think of mine. But people deserve 160 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: chances to do better, to learn and to grow. This 161 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: is your chance. What you do next will show your 162 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: true nature. Now, I'm sorry, but that totally contradicts with 163 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: the earlier message of us coming together. 164 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: And I really can't stand that. 165 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: Whenever you critically analyze a woman's behavior or provide constructive criticism, 166 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: you're told that you're not supporting women. And I just 167 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: want to put it out you can be a feminist 168 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: and not blindly support women. By saying women must blindly 169 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: support other women solely based on their gender, this means 170 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: that we're not allowed to judge fairly and think critically, 171 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: and it's actually a disservice to women. And can I 172 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: also say I am so sick of influencers getting on 173 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: their Instagram account and accusing people of bullying them when 174 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: merely we're reporting on an issue that has occurred, and 175 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 2: sometimes we're calling out influencer behavior that is not bullying. 176 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: Do you know what is bullying? Bullying is when. 177 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,599 Speaker 2: You incite your followers to come over and bully and 178 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: harass people relentlessly. 179 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: That is bullying. 180 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: And that's what we experienced yesterday. I mean, I was 181 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: absolutely disgusted by some of Sophie's followers. I had a 182 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: man go onto my Instagram profile and screenshot of photo 183 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: that I had made in tribute to my friend who 184 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: had died from suicide, and I had set up a 185 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: Beyond Blue game in his honor for the thirty six 186 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: is where I used to work. And he took that 187 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: and said that I was a bully and I was 188 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: not allowed to advocate for Beyond Blue. Now that's deeply 189 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: setting to me, as well as being called the C 190 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: word by many people. After Sophie decided to share that's 191 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: what her ex husband thought we were. 192 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: And that's the thing. 193 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 2: Whilst I don't think Sophie should be held accountable for 194 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 2: every single one of her followers comments, I think that 195 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: she was definitely inciting people to come over to our 196 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: page and leave negative comments, leave negative reviews, but then 197 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 2: three hours later after she dropped the bomb to then 198 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: go oh no, don't don't go on and leave me 199 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: in comments like they do. It's like, but that's exactly 200 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: what you wanted. And then I think the reality is 201 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: we are a podcast that talks about influencers. We expect 202 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: to get some form of criticism and we're open to it. 203 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 2: But when someone is misleading their followers about the type 204 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: of content that we're discussing on our podcast, that's not right. 205 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: I doubt that any of those people listen to the 206 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: actual episode, and can I point out for any new 207 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: listeners we have a lot of fun on this show 208 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: as well. We don't just hold influences to account. We 209 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: actually talk about a range of other topics as well. 210 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, Amy and I 211 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: both work in PR We are around influencer culture. There 212 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: are a lot of influencers that we actually quite like 213 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 2: and how fun discussing. 214 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: And talking about PR. 215 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: I think this has been a complete PR disaster for 216 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: Sophie Kesha. She obviously didn't like the commentary around this 217 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: health and safety breach for her new business, so instead 218 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 2: of actually taking the constructive criticism on board, instead, she 219 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: decided to lash out at us for covering the story, 220 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: and in doing so, she's actually brought more attention to 221 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: her error. I mean, there were so many people that 222 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: have message us saying, oh, I never knew about your podcast, 223 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 2: but I'm really enjoying it and I love the critical 224 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 2: analysis on influencers. And unfortunately, this whole situation about this 225 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 2: misbalance in power and influence is familiar to me as 226 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: OG listeners will know my sisters Amy and Sophie. They 227 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: have been bullied and intimidated by a mainstream media company before, 228 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 2: and what did they do well? They stood up for 229 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: what was right. And we are not going to be 230 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 2: silenced by influencers who use their power and following to 231 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: intimidate us. There is a gross power in balance going 232 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: on here in terms of a platform with hundreds of 233 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: thousands of followers and one with twenty thousand followers, And 234 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: it's just wild to me because influencers have enjoyed a 235 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 2: very lucrative job with zero accountability and monitoring, and they 236 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 2: are used to not being questioned or held to account. 237 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: Hence why these people react so badly. However, the pendulum 238 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: is now swinging and now the public understands the influencer 239 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: world and how influential their behavior is hence their job title. 240 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 2: And it is crucial that we continue to question people 241 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: with influence and power. We can't allow influencers to have 242 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 2: a tantrum, throw their toys out of the pram and 243 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 2: threaten defamation every time anyone wants to hold them to account. 244 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: He doesn't deserve your audery. 245 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 3: He really doesn't. I know, I know. Oh, I know 246 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 3: that night. 247 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: What was that Audrey? 248 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 2: Oh? 249 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: I know, I know why you telling you? 250 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: Then, after weeks of speculation, Tammy Hembro has finally revealed 251 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: the unexpected discovery doctors found during her routine pregnancy scan. 252 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: So h this news is actually very cute. Yeah, it 253 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: really was. 254 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: Now we have been waiting for this news since back 255 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: in December. At the time Tammy revealed that she and 256 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 2: fiance Matt had a little unexpected surprise during their scan. 257 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: At the time, many followers speculated that the couple were 258 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 2: having twins. However, that theory seemed less likely when Tammy 259 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: uploaded a gender reveal video announcing she was having one 260 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 2: baby girl. Now, the other theory that gained a lot 261 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: of traction was that the baby had extra fingers because 262 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: it is a genetic condition that runs in the Hembro family. Now, 263 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: this theory has turned out to be one hundred percent true. 264 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 2: In Tammy's blog, which is now trending on YouTube, the 265 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: couple bring followers along to the scan where they show 266 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: a number of three D images of their unborn child, 267 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 2: and we see a close up of the baby's hands 268 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 2: and you can clearly see she has twelve fingers, six 269 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: fingers on each hand. Here's Tammy and Matt reacting to 270 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: the scan. 271 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: We're going to tell everyone today the little surprise about 272 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: our baby twins. Everyone thinks it's twins. 273 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you right now it's not twins. 274 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: But it did kind of sound like that. 275 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: I didn't realize when I told everyone that we saw 276 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 2: something on the scan, but probably because like everyone's like, 277 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: what else could it be? Really? One person in one 278 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: thousand responds to squad and I don't think anyone got it? 279 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 3: Someone said that, Yeah, someone said what it was. 280 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: We were having a chat about this earlier of Mike 281 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: and you guys said that this was a well known 282 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 2: fact and that we'd actually spoken about Tammy Hembro's extra 283 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: finger on the podcast. I must have been away that 284 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: day because this blew my mind. I've never heard of 285 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: his before. Yeah, has she hadn't removed? Yeah, she did 286 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: have it removed, so Tammy will both of them. Yeah, 287 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 2: she did have them removed. So. Tammy's sisters, Amy and 288 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: Emily also were born with an extra finger, as well 289 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: as Tammy's brother and mum. And Emily's baby, Gabrielle, also 290 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 2: has an extra finger, but Tammy did say it's skipped 291 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: Wolf and Saskar. It was interesting because Tammy said that 292 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 2: her baby's extra finger looked a lot more developed in 293 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: the scan than her and her family members had been. 294 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: And it was pretty cute because Tammy and Emily showed 295 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: their little scars where their extra finger used to be. 296 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: And it seems like it was one of those things 297 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: growing up that because their sisters all had it, they 298 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 2: thought everyone else had an extra finger that had been removed. Yeah, 299 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: there were just so many things I really loved about 300 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: this vlog because firstly, Tammy forgot that she had to 301 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: drink five hundred milliliters of water before the scan, So 302 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: in the car ride you see her sculling water from 303 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: a sand Pellegrino bottle. 304 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I love it wash water. 305 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: I feel for her because a couple of years ago 306 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 2: I had to have one of those ultrasounds, not because 307 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: I was pregnant, for something else, and it is such 308 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: a painful car ride with a bladder full of water. 309 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: I just remember being can I just go to the toy? 310 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: You just have to sit away? That was horrible and 311 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: all the bumps you go. 312 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: Well. Secondly, I really also loved how excited both Matt 313 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: and Tammy scene because they were trying to point out 314 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 2: which features from the scan were most similar to them. 315 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: Of course, the fingers, the six fingers. Of course, the 316 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: six fingers were similar to Tammy. But apparently the baby 317 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: also has really long legs and big feet, and the 318 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: doctor even said that the baby appeared mustly. I don't 319 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: quite know what that means, but apparently that's the iron 320 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: Man in the baby. The baby also appeared to have 321 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: Tammy's nose and lips, and I have to say, looking 322 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: at these three D scans, you can tell it's going 323 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: to be an absolutely gorgeous child. Now, what I have 324 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: been loving that is brewing under the surface of all 325 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: these baby announcements is the beef that's going on between 326 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: Tammy and Kylie Jenner. So if you cast your mind back, 327 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: everyone was really excited to hear what Kylie had called 328 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: her son, and she has called him woolf. Now this 329 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: has sparked a lot of people saying, oh my god, 330 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: she's copied Tammy because back in the day these two 331 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: used to be friends, and there was that infamous time 332 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: when Tammy was apparently stretchered out of Kylie Jenner's birthday party. 333 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: So it seems like Tammy isn't happy about it because 334 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: when the name, when Kylie's son's name came out, she 335 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: posted a photo with wolf and wrote my wolf. Now, 336 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: everyone thought this was a bit of a burn at Kylie, 337 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: particularly when you had to look at the comments and 338 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: a lot of her friends were like, the only wolf 339 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 2: in all of this. 340 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: Now. 341 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: Tammy then went on TikTok and playfully referenced the incident 342 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: when responding to a fan about a possible name for 343 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: her third child. So someone wrote, I know you were 344 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 2: naming your son baby Bentley, and she replied, actually liking 345 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: the name store me at the moment. Now her comment 346 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: has since drawn more than four hundred and eighty replies 347 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: and ten point four thousand likes. It's also funny because 348 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: eagle eyed followers have noticed that Tammy wore the same 349 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: dress to announce her baby news as Kylie did. Gosh, 350 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: it is going to get interesting when she does actually 351 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: revealed the child's name. I wonder whether they'll will be 352 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: a few more burns along the way, But I'm living 353 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 2: for this content. Good honor for having a bit of. 354 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: A clap But it's pretty funny, let's be honest. I 355 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: think she's joking about it. Would you guys be. 356 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: Offended if you called your child a you know, not 357 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: the unique name like Wolf, and then someone you knew copyed. 358 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a bit different because she's in America. 359 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: I don't know. I just I feel like, yeah, but 360 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 2: they're both well known, big places. 361 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: Is it a compliment? 362 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: Though? 363 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: I feel like if you're not really moving around the 364 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 2: same social circles, it doesn't really matter. 365 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: But I feel like. 366 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 2: Wolf is becoming quite a common name these days. It is. 367 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a trendy name. 368 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: I mean the reality is if I called my child, 369 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: say I call them Olivia. 370 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: We've all been joking that, so we've got to call 371 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: out kid, well, our kids. 372 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 2: I would probably be offended if my best friend went 373 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 2: and called her daughter Olivia, say six months after Ye, 374 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: there's a bit of probably a bit offensive. There is 375 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: a bit of an unwritten rule that you don't copy 376 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 2: the name. 377 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: But I'm so sick of you. I'm so I'm sick 378 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: of this stupid school, and you're all pathetic. I've built 379 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 3: that drama department up from the shthold that it was 380 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 3: when I came here, and you've never You've never appreciated 381 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 3: me for doing that. You've never thanked me, You've never said, Greg, 382 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: thank you for what you've done. 383 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 2: Ozzie influencer Opinions made a big return to Instagram this week, 384 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: and I, for one, have been thoroughly enjoying their content now. 385 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: The account discussed boyfriend of Instagram Jonathan Sower's lack of 386 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: engagement on his recent posts and his page in general. 387 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: And I have noticed this because I think since he 388 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 2: stopped dating Shanny. It has really plummeted it. 389 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 390 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 2: So, the former accountant who was famous for dating Shany 391 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: Grimman and then dating Madison woollly shared a post on 392 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 2: Sunday promoting Jack Daniels Seltzers Now. Under the post, in 393 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: what seems to be a bid to drive up engagement, 394 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: he immediately commented three times now to painting the picture. 395 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 2: Jonathan's initial caption read nothing better than a day out 396 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 2: playing golf with friends and testing out the new Jack 397 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: Daniels oz Seltzer's I feel like this will be my 398 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: go to summer drink from now on. Now in the 399 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: comment section, he wrote three separate comments. The first read 400 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: honestly chase the ball around most of the day. Though 401 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: now this wasn't in response to anyone, This was the 402 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: only comment. He then wrote, drinks made it better. 403 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: Now someone has. 404 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 2: Seen this odd behavior and wrote you right there, to 405 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 2: which he responded, ha ha, yeah mate. I have to 406 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: point out that mate was spelled M and then with 407 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 2: an eight. I feel that's very old school. Has he 408 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: been hacked? 409 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: Maybe he was tired from writing all the three comments. 410 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: And to make that as even worse, there was this 411 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 2: zoomed up picture of the Seltzer that was like pixelated 412 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: And I feel like this has made it very obvious 413 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 2: that Madison Woolly is no longer taking his Instagram photos 414 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 2: because there was a little bit of quality control now 415 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: and Madison Woolly actually confirmed the news that she is 416 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 2: single on her podcast on Thursday. Now Ossie influenced her opinions. 417 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 2: Then did a comparison of the amount of comments and 418 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 2: engagement Jonathan used to receive when he was dating Shanny 419 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: Grimm and compared to now now. When he was dating Sharny, 420 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: he would receive between five thousand to one thousand comments 421 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: on his posts. If you take a look at Social Blade, 422 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 2: it shows on average he now receives six comments per post, 423 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 2: so it is a dramatic drop. 424 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 3: Now. 425 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: I do wonder whether this number will continue to drop 426 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: now that he isn't dating Madison Bully. 427 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 3: Yeah we went together was an assumptions now us, but 428 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: then one on my channel and it was really fun. Yeah. 429 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 3: I feel like he's fun. Yeah, I feel we did 430 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 3: like six months ago. 431 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's been a while. 432 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 3: I posted on my Instagram. 433 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: Just before we get into the next topic, we do 434 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: want to issue a trigger warning. We do discuss issues 435 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: related to child sexual abuse. Grace Tame has taken aim 436 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: at the media, who she says have sought out to 437 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: discredit her. Amy, can you tell us what happened? So 438 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 2: last week news outlets decided to publish a photo of 439 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: Grace Tame sitting next to a bong. The report followed 440 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: Tame's passionate speech at the Press Club and her famous 441 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: snub of Prime Minister Scott Morrison. So, for those who 442 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: don't know, Grace was a victim of sexual abuse at 443 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: the hands of a school teacher. She was raped at 444 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,719 Speaker 2: the age of fifteen by her fifth eight year old 445 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 2: high school teacher. In twenty twenty one, she won Australian 446 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: of the Year after her advocacy was instrumental in overturning 447 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: a Tasmanian law preventing survivors from speaking publicly about their assault. So, Amy, 448 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 2: what do we know about the photo in question? So 449 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: the photo was taken in twenty fourteen, and this was 450 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: when Grace was just nineteen years old, and the post 451 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: was originally on her Instagram account that has since been deleted. 452 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 2: So Grace first responded to the controversy on the fifteenth 453 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: of February with humor. She wrote on Twitter, we were 454 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: doing a cover of April Sun in Cuba on the oboe. 455 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 2: Now this is poking fund at Prime Minister Scott Morrison, 456 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: who recently appeared on sixty Minutes playing April Son on 457 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: his ukle ale Now. On Saturday, Grace opened up further 458 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: about an open letter she released on Twitter. She wrote 459 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: that the letter was for every media outlet who had 460 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 2: sought to discredit her by publishing the photo. Grace made 461 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 2: some really amazing points in this letter. She said, Whilst 462 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 2: we must acknowledge the harm that drugs can cause, if 463 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 2: we want to have an open and honest discussion about 464 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 2: child sex abuse in this country, we must also have 465 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: an open and honest discussion about trauma and what that 466 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: can look like. 467 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: It can be. 468 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 2: Ugly, It can look like drugs, self harm, skipping school, 469 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 2: getting impulsive tattoos, and all kinds of other unconscious, self destructive, 470 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 2: maladaptive coping mechanisms. Whilst I do not seek to glorify, sanitize, 471 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 2: or normalize any of these things, I also do not 472 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 2: seek to shame or judge survivors for any of their choices. 473 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 2: For anyone who needs to hear this it's not your fault. 474 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 2: She went on to say that they're scared they'll be 475 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: blamed and chastised for their coping strategies instead of being 476 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 2: offered support and treated for the cause of their suffering. 477 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: She did continue and she said publicly shaming survivors for 478 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 2: their past is as low as you can possibly go, 479 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 2: and I one hundred percent agree. Now, what do you 480 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 2: guys think about the accusations. Do you think this was 481 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: actually part of a smear campaign against Grace Tame Well, 482 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 2: the timing of it makes it seem like it definitely is. 483 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 2: I think absolutely disgusting that any media sites published this photo. 484 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: It is clearly a part of a smear campaign to 485 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: discredit what Grace is saying in light of everything that 486 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: she has said recently about the Liberal government. And I 487 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: think we need to point out there has been no 488 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 2: confirmation of who released the photo, but I think we 489 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 2: can use our imagination and the reporting on the bong 490 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: photo had some tell tale characteristics of a smear campaign. 491 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: So those carrying out a smear campaign first light to 492 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: find someone's weak spot, or they create one, and in 493 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: this instance, the worst thing they could find about Grace 494 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: was an eight year old photo of her next to 495 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: a bong. 496 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: That really says a lot, doesn't I know? 497 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: And this image has clearly been used as an attempt 498 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: to discredit her, and so all of the focus is 499 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: now not on Grace's amazing speech at the press club. 500 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: It's turned the focus to this photo, which is disgusting. Well, 501 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 2: I think it's done the complete opposite, because I think 502 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 2: everyone's like, Wow, how low can you go that you're 503 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 2: releasing this photo. This doesn't discredit her at all. It 504 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 2: just amplifies all the amazing points that she makes and 505 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 2: I loved. 506 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: Her clap back at the liberal kind. 507 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: I mean. The other thing is, in terms of this 508 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 2: being a smear campaign, in most smear campaigns, they provide 509 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: no context to information like this. So they've just posted 510 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: a photo of Grace tame next to a bong, when 511 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 2: they could have opened up a conversation about, well, why 512 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 2: is she next. 513 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: To this bong? Does this have to do with the 514 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: abuse that she. 515 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 2: Was But I don't think it's actually appropriate for anyone 516 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: to comment on how survivors of sexual abuse have, you know, 517 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: kind their trauma plays out. I feel like it could 518 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: have been a great talking point though, to look at 519 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 2: how she ever been published. The thing is that media 520 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 2: organizations do need to have a level of ethical reporting 521 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: and from working in a newsroom, of course, if this 522 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 2: photo was to be sent into you, you. 523 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: Would have to look at whether. 524 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: There were some newsworthy points to it. Is this in 525 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: the public's interest to know what is the reasoning behind 526 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: this person sending up through the photo? 527 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: Exactly? But don't you think exactly? 528 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: But don't you think some investigative journalism could have been 529 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: done and found out who sent the photo and what 530 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 2: the motive of outing Grace Tame next to a bong 531 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: was for, because that's more interesting. It's more interesting to 532 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 2: know how this photo fell into the media's hands and 533 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: who was sending it. 534 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: Do you know what it pisses me off? 535 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: It always seems to be that if a stronger woman 536 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: speaks out, there's suddenly a smear campaign trying to discredit them, 537 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: and this is exactly what has happened with Grace Tame. 538 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: It just scares young women into having an opinion. It 539 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 2: stops them from being bold, it stops them from saying 540 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 2: the truth of what is happening, and it's absolutely disgusting. 541 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: And I do think that the media need to be 542 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: more ethical in what they're reporting on, and I do 543 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 2: think the media need to be more ethical on what 544 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: they're creating headlines out of this whole clickbait culture needs 545 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 2: to stop. 546 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: Do they think people would genuinely. 547 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: Be outraged, because we've seen in recent times Nadia Bartel 548 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 2: was caught with a white powder but that actually made 549 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 2: her gain more followers. That's completely misread the situation, misread 550 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 2: the room. It's made people like her even more and 551 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 2: relate to her even more. And as she said during 552 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 2: her statement, it is so vile to be judging a 553 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: victim of child sex abuse of the way that they 554 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: decide to deal with and coloquate that situation. It's appalling. 555 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: So more importantly, Grace has been putting her energy into 556 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: an amazing new project. So she has launched a fundraiser 557 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 2: to help change the wording of legislation relating to abuse 558 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: of miners by removing the phrase sexual relationship. So her 559 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: non for profit charity, the Grace Tame Foundation, has set 560 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: a goal of raising one hundred thousand dollars and it's 561 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: already at more than seventy two thousand dollars as of yesterday, 562 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 2: and the money we use to campaign for consistent wording 563 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 2: of laws around child sex abuse across all states and territories, 564 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: so we will put that in our show notes. 565 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: If anyone does want to donate to that cause. 566 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's all we have time for today. 567 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode. 568 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 2: If you have enjoyed it, could you please make sure 569 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: that you leave a review and five star rating. I 570 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: have anticipated that we might be receiving a few trolling 571 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 2: comments on there, and you know, we do put a 572 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 2: lot of time and effort into this podcast, so if 573 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: you are enjoying it, we 574 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: Would love to hear and love to have that support.