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Speaker 1: Hugh Van Kylenberg hangs up the phone. He's been speaking

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Speaker 1: to his very pregnant wife who's struggling at home without him.

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Speaker 1: He's exhausted too, after days and days of back to

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Speaker 1: back presentations. Oh and the air conditioning's not working. Needless

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Speaker 1: to say, Hugh's not feeling his best going into the

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Speaker 1: presentation he has to deliver that day. But a couple

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Speaker 1: of minutes into his speech, he spot's a boy in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the audience and something clicks. So howard

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Speaker 1: does Hugh Van Kylenberg, founder of the Resilience Project and

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Speaker 1: a host of The Imperfect podcast and someone who regularly

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Speaker 1: speaks to audiences in the thousands, connect in with his

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Speaker 1: why on days where he's just not feeling it. My

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Speaker 1: name is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and

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Speaker 1: the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And this is

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Speaker 1: How I Work, a show about how to help you

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Speaker 1: do your best work. On today's My Favorite Tip episode,

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Speaker 1: we go back to an interview from the past and

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Speaker 1: I pick up my favorite tip from the interview. In

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Speaker 1: today's show, I speak with Hugh and when I had

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Speaker 1: him on How I Work, he had just had a

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Speaker 1: shockingly stressful morning. So I wanted to know how it

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Speaker 1: gets in the zone when he needs to perform.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I built the Rezones project. It started off

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Speaker 2: doing presentations in primary schools because as a primary school

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Speaker 2: teacher and I thought I can do good presentations to

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Speaker 2: primary school kids. That's an audience I'm used to and

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Speaker 2: I know how to engage them. And so that's how

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Speaker 2: it started going to primary schools and it grew so well.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say so quickly. Didn't grow so quickly,

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Speaker 2: but it got to a point after a few years

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Speaker 2: where I was doing four or five one hour presentations

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Speaker 2: a day to huge audiences. So I'd go like it

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Speaker 2: was ridiculous. I just couldn't say no because I'd had

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Speaker 2: two years where no one was interested that the thought

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Speaker 2: of saying no to people, it just was so, I'm

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Speaker 2: not doing that. I'm just going to stay yes to everyone.

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Speaker 2: And I would say ninety percent of the presentation. As

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Speaker 2: I did, I turned up in a mood of just

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Speaker 2: I can't do this. I've just got nothing here. But

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Speaker 2: there was no method or anything.

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 2: It is my favorite thing in the world to do.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's a weird thing, but public speaking is

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Speaker 2: I just love it ever since I was a kid

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Speaker 2: at school.

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Speaker 3: Well that's not true.

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Speaker 2: Primary school it terrified me, but in secondary school I

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Speaker 2: looked for opportunities to do it because I just loved it.

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Speaker 2: So I think i'd often start. I'd get up on

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Speaker 2: stage in front of I don't know what was the

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Speaker 2: last one I did. We're so up in Cans. A

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Speaker 2: few weeks ago we had all these schools bust into

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Speaker 2: the Performing Arts Center and Cans. So it was about

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Speaker 2: two thy five hundred nine to twelve year olds were

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Speaker 2: coming in and it was a third one for the day.

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Speaker 2: It was so hot their conditioning had stopped working in

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Speaker 2: this and it was Canns. It was so hot. And

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Speaker 2: I'd be on the phone to my wife and chatting

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Speaker 2: about stuff with our kids. She was having a really

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Speaker 2: rough time. She's very pregnant, and I felt so bad

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Speaker 2: that I wasn't at home. I just I was so

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Speaker 2: down to myself, going I shouldn't have done this, should

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Speaker 2: be at home with Penny and the kids. And as

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Speaker 2: I'm on the phone, I'm watching all these kids just

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Speaker 2: walking into the hall and I didn't do anything. I

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Speaker 2: think it was about probably two or three minutes in,

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Speaker 2: I just saw a kid who was sort of he

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Speaker 2: wasn't need a fun He was kind of sitting in

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Speaker 2: the middle somewhere. I just looked at him and I

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Speaker 2: remember thinking, my gosh, I don't know what this kid's

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Speaker 2: story is, but he clearly needs this right now. And

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Speaker 2: I kind of in my head was thinking, you're presenting

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Speaker 2: for this kid and there's two thy and five hundred

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Speaker 2: kids here. Maybe he's the only one who get s

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Speaker 2: something out of this, but he needs this right now.

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Speaker 2: And it did, but I didn't. There was nothing I

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Speaker 2: did consciously to go, come on, switch on, you need

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Speaker 2: to I got up there begrudgingly. To be honest, I

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Speaker 2: hope that people in Kens don't hear me say this,

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Speaker 2: but I was like, I can't. I don't have the

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Speaker 2: energy for this. But then I saw this one kid,

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Speaker 2: and you never know. There's the thing about podcasting, which

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Speaker 2: you'd probably find you never know the impact you're having.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you really know. I mean there's sometimes

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Speaker 2: I I'm into people who say I've listened to every

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Speaker 2: episode and I needed this so much in my life,

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Speaker 2: And if I didn't bump to them, I would have

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Speaker 2: known that so I think sometimes it helps to remind

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Speaker 2: yourself of the people who potentially you know, I've I've

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Speaker 2: been going back many years. I was much younger when

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Speaker 2: I started it, and I did have more energy. Naturally,

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Speaker 2: I noticed now as a forty two year old that

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Speaker 2: it's it can tack it. It's a young person's game,

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Speaker 2: I think public speaking at that volume. But for me,

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Speaker 2: I think it's just trying to identify.

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Speaker 3: I think it. Do you know what it is?

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Speaker 2: I'm just I'm stumbling around my answer a bit here,

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Speaker 2: but I think it's I think it's coming back to

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Speaker 2: your why, like why you're doing it? Because for me,

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Speaker 2: my why is to help people to feel happier. And

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Speaker 2: I think, no matter how exhausted I am or whatever

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Speaker 2: day I've had, I'm very connected with my why. Like

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Speaker 2: while I'm doing this, and I think I didn't think

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Speaker 2: to myself, come on to you, what's your why?

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Speaker 3: Why are you doing this?

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Speaker 2: But I saw a kid who looked like they just

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Speaker 2: needed it so desperately. There was a ten year old

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Speaker 2: who had tears streaming down their face, you know, like

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Speaker 2: that's a big thing for a ten year old to

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Speaker 2: do in front of all their peers and I just

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Speaker 2: remember thinking that kids, why I'm here today? You know

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Speaker 2: that got me through that presentation. So I guess it's

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Speaker 2: a strong connection with you why.

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting what you say about your why,

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Speaker 1: and that really shines through in your work that I've

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Speaker 1: seen of your work, that you are very connected to it.

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Speaker 1: And I feel connected to my why. But I still

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Speaker 1: have many moments and days and engagements where I'll be

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Speaker 1: doing speaking or something that requires me to be in

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Speaker 1: a certain state and I'll just be so in my

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Speaker 1: own head and focused on me and not on the audience. So,

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Speaker 1: practically speaking, how do you stay in touch with your

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Speaker 1: why when you know mentally you're struggling.

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Speaker 3: That's such a good question.

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes I have to be honest, I don't

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Speaker 2: always do it. I had a corporate presentation for a

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Speaker 2: group of people I won't say where they're from, but

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Speaker 2: before that, so I got the six in the morning

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Speaker 2: because they were finishing night shift and they'd been working

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Speaker 2: since ten at night and they were a group of tradees.

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Speaker 2: And one of them said to me, as I was

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Speaker 2: about to start, he said, hell, is this go for?

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Speaker 3: Mate?

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Speaker 2: And I said it's an hour and he said, do it?

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Speaker 2: In half an hour and just like walk off. Another

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Speaker 2: guy walked past and said, I just so now I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be sleeping through this, and another go I

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Speaker 2: can't repeat the language, but another guy that was it

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Speaker 2: was just and I just thought, I don't want I

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Speaker 2: don't want to do this, like I just don't want

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Speaker 2: to be here. And it was awful, Like it went

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Speaker 2: for an hour, it felt like three hours for me,

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Speaker 2: and it was and there was no point where I

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Speaker 2: was thinking, come on, get in touch with your Why

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Speaker 2: why are you doing this? You're trying to help someone.

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Speaker 2: I just I'm sure there were people there who In fact,

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Speaker 2: I know there were people there who needed it and

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Speaker 2: by the end were benefiting from it.

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Speaker 3: But I was just sinking the whole time. I just

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Speaker 3: don't want to do this.

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Speaker 2: So there are times, and I don't want to make

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Speaker 2: it sound like every time I get up and perform

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Speaker 2: it's like I'm in touch with my whye no matter what,

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Speaker 2: I can get through this. There are times when I

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Speaker 2: really struggle as well. There's a thing I do I've

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Speaker 2: noticed a lot, which again it's it's a subconscious I

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Speaker 2: never deliberately sat down and went this is a good

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Speaker 2: thing to do. But before I present, I'll often watch

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Speaker 2: the people come in, and I'll watch their body language,

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Speaker 2: and I'll try and identify people that I think they're

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Speaker 2: going to really enjoy it or really need it and

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Speaker 2: really benefit from it, and I sort of focus on

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Speaker 2: them because it's very easy to focus on people. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how relatable this is for people who

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Speaker 2: don't present, but you will see some people come in

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Speaker 2: and you can tell from the start they just don't

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Speaker 2: want to be that event. This is this is good work,

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Speaker 2: you know, corporate stuff. They've been told they have to

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Speaker 2: do it, and you can see them their body language

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Speaker 2: and and just going what is this about? And while

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Speaker 2: am I listening to this guy? Why am I going

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Speaker 2: to listen to this guy? But then you can also

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Speaker 2: see people walk in who who you just know desperately

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Speaker 2: need it, and so I will focus on them before

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Speaker 2: I get up, and I just think this is fair. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think I often in my head, I'm almost like

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Speaker 2: dedicating it to a group of people in the audience

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Speaker 2: that I know will need it. I mean, it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit different when I'm doing the big sitt of

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Speaker 2: shows around the country that I can't see anyone. It's like,

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Speaker 2: but everyone's bought tickets to that, so I'm assuming they

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Speaker 2: want to be there. So I'm pretty happy that I

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Speaker 2: feel like over that. But I think it's I think

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Speaker 2: it's I'll identify.

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Speaker 3: People that really need it. I guess, oh, I think dad.

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Speaker 1: If you like this excerpt with my chat from Hugh,

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Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the

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Speaker 1: full interview, which you can find a link to in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to

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Speaker 1: improve the way that you work, I write a short

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Speaker 1: fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered

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Speaker 1: that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets

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Speaker 1: that I'm loving three to interesting research findings. You can

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Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot co. That's how

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Speaker 1: I Work dot co. Thank you for sharing part of

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Speaker 1: your day with me by listening to How I Work.

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Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work better,

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Speaker 1: connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy

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Speaker 1: to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work

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Speaker 1: was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people,

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Speaker 1: part of the Cooler Nation. I am so grateful for

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Speaker 1: being able to work and live on this beautiful land,

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Speaker 1: and I want to pay my respects to elders, past,

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Speaker 1: present and emerging. How I work is produced by Inventium

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Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank you

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Speaker 1: to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes

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Speaker 1: everything sound better than it would have otherwise