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Speaker 1: Now we learned over the weekend that Senator Sam McMahon

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Speaker 1: has made the decision to quit the COLP. Yesterday I

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Speaker 1: spoke to the CLP President, Jamie de Breney, who claimed

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Speaker 1: the resignation would not impact the CLP in terms of

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Speaker 1: being able to continue to be a political party, telling

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Speaker 1: us the CLP was legally allowed to run under its

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Speaker 1: own name in the next election despite losing its only

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Speaker 1: federal seat. Now joining me in the studio is the

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Speaker 1: Senator for the Northern Territory, Sam McMahon.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good morning Katy.

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Speaker 2: Now, Senator, why did you decide to resign from the party?

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Speaker 4: Look, Katy, there's a couple of reasons. It's not just

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Speaker 4: one thing. It's quite a few things, as you know,

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Speaker 4: as usually the case, you know, I feel that there's

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Speaker 4: a disconnect between myself and the party management. I don't

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Speaker 4: feel that I can any longer put my hand on

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Speaker 4: my heart and say to Territorians that I'm representing the

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Speaker 4: CLP or that I'm a CLP representative, because I just

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Speaker 4: don't feel there's that connection between myself and the party.

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Speaker 4: And as I have detailed in recent days, probably all

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Speaker 4: brought to a head due to the fact that, yes,

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Speaker 4: I did put several issues or complaints to the CLP

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Speaker 4: management back in November last year and have received no

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Speaker 4: response to those.

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Speaker 2: What were those issues?

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Speaker 4: Look, Katie, you know, I don't want to go into

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Speaker 4: any great detail. It's a you know, it's a private

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Speaker 4: matter between myself and the management of the CLP. But

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Speaker 4: it did involve, you know, some of the things that

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Speaker 4: came out of the Jenkins Report into the Parliamentary Safety

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Speaker 4: for women, and you know, I didn't feel that my

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Speaker 4: safety was being ensured in part in party meetings, in

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Speaker 4: CLPA party meetings.

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Speaker 2: So you didn't feel safe in the workplace.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was an issue of not feeling safe in

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Speaker 4: People need to understand that as a politician, part of

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Speaker 4: my workplace is party meetings. I'm required to attend to them.

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Speaker 4: And no, I did not feel safe in the CLP

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Speaker 4: Central Council.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't a situation where you were not feeling

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Speaker 1: safe in Parliament in Canberra or as part of the

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Speaker 1: coalition team. What you're saying is that you did not

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Speaker 1: feel safe in those central council meetings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's correct.

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Speaker 4: No problem at all in Canberra, no problem at all

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Speaker 4: down there it was an issue that was very specific

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Speaker 4: to the CLP Central Council and that's something that I'm

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Speaker 4: required to attend. So, you know, as I said, that

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Speaker 4: is my workplace.

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Speaker 1: Look, there'll be people listening right now who are feeling

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Speaker 1: quite perplexed hearing what you are saying, and you know, and.

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Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit confused.

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Speaker 1: I guess, you know, some people may may not even

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Speaker 1: understand what that Central Party sort of or that Central

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Speaker 1: Council meeting is. I mean, it is a meeting where

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Speaker 1: there's several people.

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Speaker 2: There isn't there.

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Speaker 4: It's a meeting where there's a large number of people.

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Speaker 4: I mean normally I think that's sort of around the

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Speaker 4: sixty to eighty people. It's a meeting that the party

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Speaker 4: has several times a year that's attended by delegates from

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Speaker 4: right across the Northern Territory from all the different branches.

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Speaker 4: So it's a reasonably large meeting, but also quite intimate.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's everyone's in a small sort of closed

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Speaker 4: space and if you're if you're not feeling safe and

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Speaker 4: secure in that environment, it makes it very very hard

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Speaker 4: to do your job.

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Speaker 1: So you put these, you know, these concerns to the

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Speaker 1: COLP President Jamie de Brenny.

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Speaker 2: Were they taken seriously?

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Speaker 3: Look, I mentioned them to Jamie.

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Speaker 4: You know, I said to him, I was, I was

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Speaker 4: actually in quite a distressed state. And I said to

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Speaker 4: him at the Central Council this, you know, this.

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Speaker 3: Is not right.

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Speaker 4: He said, well, look, what you need to do is

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Speaker 4: put your concerns in writing, then we can deal with it.

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Speaker 3: And I did that.

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Speaker 4: And you know, as I said, I did that in

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Speaker 4: November and in early November, and I've not had a response.

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Speaker 1: So nothing since November. I spoke to the CLP president yesterday.

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Speaker 1: He spoke very positively about you, and and you know,

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Speaker 1: I spoke highly of the work that you have conducted

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Speaker 1: as the CLP senator will no longer but when you

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Speaker 1: were obviously and as your work.

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Speaker 2: As a senator.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some people listening might think that this is

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Speaker 1: maybe a bit of muck raking towards the CLP.

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Speaker 2: Is that the case, No, not not.

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Speaker 4: At all, Katie and look off had people say, oh,

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Speaker 4: you know, this is just sour grapes and this is

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Speaker 4: just you trying to extract revenge on the CLP for

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Speaker 4: you know, not not gaining pre selection. And that's absolutely

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Speaker 4: not true. I mean if I if I was you know,

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Speaker 4: if I was doing that, I would have done that

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Speaker 4: a long, long time ago. This is a timing issue.

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Speaker 4: The CLP has their next Central Council coming up in

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Speaker 4: two weeks time, and I just felt enormous distress and

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Speaker 4: anxiety at having to face that situation again where I'm

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Speaker 4: made to sit in a room and not feel, not

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Speaker 4: feel physically or mentally safe.

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Speaker 2: Do you still believe in the CLP? Yeah, yeah, I do.

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Speaker 4: I do, Katie, And look, I've got a lot of

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Speaker 4: friends in the CLP. I have respect for everyone that's

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Speaker 4: on Management Committee, including Jamie. I have no problem with Jamie.

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Speaker 4: He's a great guy. I still believe in the party

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Speaker 4: philosophy and the platform. It's just a personal issue for

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Speaker 4: me that I can't put up any longer with not

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Speaker 4: feeling safe and secure in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: Now, Senator, I know that over the last year or so,

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Speaker 1: there's been some pretty serious accusations made about you as well,

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Speaker 1: some staff members saying that they didn't feel safe in

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Speaker 1: the workplace. Do you feel as though you've provided your

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Speaker 1: staff over the years the same, you know, the same

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Speaker 1: protection and the same respect as what you would hope

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Speaker 1: the c orp is given to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I absolutely do.

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Speaker 4: I've only ever received one complaint from one staff member.

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Speaker 4: I dealt with that as I'm required to do and

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Speaker 4: as per the workplace requirements. That resulted in, you know,

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Speaker 4: one staff member leaving and another staff member being sacked.

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Speaker 4: So you know, yes, I do feel like I've done

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Speaker 4: everything as I'm required as an employer.

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Speaker 1: There were also some pretty serious allegations made about you

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Speaker 1: behaving badly, accusations of drinking and throwing a punch at

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Speaker 1: the National Federal Director. Did you throw a punch at

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Speaker 1: the National Federal Director Jonathan Hawk?

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Speaker 4: Look, kat I'm not going to go into details of

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Speaker 4: what what may or may not have been said or

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Speaker 4: what may or may not have been done by people

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Speaker 4: that were at a private function out of out of

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Speaker 4: work hours. I'm not going to go into details about that.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to respond to those allegations. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I've heard about six or seven different versions of allegations

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Speaker 4: of what supposedly happened, So I'm not going to go

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Speaker 4: into details about that.

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Speaker 2: Do you regret your behavior? Though?

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Speaker 3: No, No, Katie, I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't have any great regrets about anything that I've done.

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Speaker 4: I've always tried to do the absolute best job that

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Speaker 4: I can as a CLP representative and the best job

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Speaker 4: that I can representing the people of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 4: And I hope I'll be judged on my achievements and

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Speaker 4: what I've brought to Federal Parliament.

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Speaker 2: What are your plans?

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Speaker 1: I know that you have said that that you know

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Speaker 1: that you're going to be really putting, you know, putting

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Speaker 1: your intentions forward, maybe over the next couple of days

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Speaker 1: or over the next couple of weeks, But I mean,

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Speaker 1: are you going to stay sitting with the NATS at

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Speaker 1: this point?

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Speaker 4: Look, Katie, my hope, in my desire is that I

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Speaker 4: will stay sitting with the NATS. That that's a matter

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Speaker 4: and that's an ultimate decision for the NATS, but that

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Speaker 4: is what I would would like to do.

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Speaker 2: Do they want you to sit with them?

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Speaker 4: Well, look, I mean that's you know, that's a discussion

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Speaker 4: that I'll have. I mean, we're in We're at Parliament

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Speaker 4: next week, so I'm you know, I have ongoing discussions

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Speaker 4: with the Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce. You know, we

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Speaker 4: talk pretty much every day, but you know, ultimately that'll

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Speaker 4: be a decision for the GNATS to make next week.

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Speaker 1: Would you run for the Nationals Party at the federal

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Speaker 1: election at the upcoming federal election if they asked you to.

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Speaker 4: That would be something that I would have to consider

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Speaker 4: if they asked. I can categorically tell you at the moment,

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Speaker 4: I have no intention of running in the next federal election.

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Speaker 3: But you know, a day, a minute is a long time.

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Speaker 4: In politics, and it would have to be something i'd

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Speaker 4: consider if I was asked.

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Speaker 1: I think the really big question at this point is

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Speaker 1: going to be, you know, in the lead into the election,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to be wondering how

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Speaker 1: you're planning to vote.

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Speaker 2: Are you going to vote against the coalition?

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Speaker 4: I have no plans to vote against the coalition I

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Speaker 4: have you know, I have plans to support the coalition. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: if an issue comes up as it did last year

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Speaker 4: where I crossed the floor with a few of my

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Speaker 4: colleagues and voted against the government on an issue that's

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Speaker 4: passionate to Territorians. Obviously, if that crops up, I'll do,

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Speaker 4: you know, what's right by Territorians. But there's nothing coming

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Speaker 4: up that I'm aware of that I would vote against.

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Speaker 1: Senator taking into account what I've told me this morning,

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Speaker 1: that you didn't feel safe in those in those Central

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Speaker 1: Council meetings. Do you think that the CLP has got

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Speaker 1: an issue with women.

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Speaker 4: Look, that's been an accusation that's been been leveled at

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Speaker 4: the CLP quite a few times.

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Speaker 3: I'm aware over the years.

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Speaker 4: And you know, apart from apart from this particular issue,

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Speaker 4: I haven't had issues with any of the you know,

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Speaker 4: the MLAs or the management or you know, the people

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Speaker 4: in the CLP. But you know, I think the Jenkins

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Speaker 4: Report certainly opened up a lot of people's eyes to

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Speaker 4: the issue of women in politics, and it probably would

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Speaker 4: be a very good idea for the CLP to have

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Speaker 4: a look at that report.

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Speaker 1: Some listening will be again asking are you just sour

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Speaker 1: that you weren't pre selected?

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Speaker 3: Not at all?

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Speaker 4: And you know, as I've stated, if I was, I

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Speaker 4: would have done this a long time ago. This is

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Speaker 4: purely a timing issue to do with the Central Council.

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Speaker 4: It's coming up in two weeks.

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Speaker 2: Well what's next for you, Senator?

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Speaker 4: Well, look, a lot of people have asked that and

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Speaker 4: saying why aren't you considering what you're going to do?

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, Katie, the fact is I'm in

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Speaker 4: a lucky position and probably a fairly unique position in

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Speaker 4: that I have a profession and I still have a

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Speaker 4: very successful business as a veterinarian. So you know, at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day, I can just walk straight

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Speaker 4: back into my profession and run my businesses.

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Speaker 1: Well, Senator Sam Man, we will leave it there, no doubt,

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Speaker 1: though we'll continue to talk over the next few weeks,

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Speaker 1: very keen as well to see how the bill that

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Speaker 1: you've got at the moment to try and get the

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Speaker 1: territories rights, you know, and allow those over the next

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure when does Parliament even sit again.

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Speaker 2: When are you going to get the chance?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Parliament sits next week.

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Speaker 4: So Katie, that is one thing that I am focusing

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Speaker 4: on is my bill for ensuring Northern territory rights.

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Speaker 3: So that's obviously I've.

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Speaker 4: Introduced that into the Senate and that debate has started

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Speaker 4: on that bill, so I will be working really hard

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Speaker 4: to vigorously try and get that bill across the line.

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Speaker 1: Well, no doubt, we'll talk to you as that progresses.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your time this morning, Senator

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Speaker 1: Sam McMahon, No worries.

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Speaker 3: Thanks gant you