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Speaker 1: Now we know that results of a whole other survey,

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Speaker 1: well this time into concerns around property crime and anti

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Speaker 1: social behavior, have been finalized by the Property Council of

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Speaker 1: Australia's Northern Territory branch and the results are unsurprising but

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Speaker 1: certainly damning. Now joining me on the show is Ruth Palmer,

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Speaker 1: who is the executive director of the Northern Territory Property Council.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to.

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Speaker 2: You, Ruth. Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Now Ruth, how many people took part in the survey

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Speaker 1: and were they all commercial property owners?

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie.

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Speaker 3: So our survey results had four hundred and sixty two respondents.

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Speaker 2: I have actually closed that off.

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Speaker 3: It was a week and a half as I was

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Speaker 3: still getting ones trickling through over the last couple of days.

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Speaker 3: So that's really good number to be able to get

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Speaker 3: a good data set to be able to then present

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Speaker 3: to government. So it was territory wide, so we did

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Speaker 3: have responses all around the territory Alice Catherine, but also

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Speaker 3: some of the remote communities as well. We had respondents

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Speaker 3: in calcarinji Jabbaru, Hearts Range and whole other areas, so

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Speaker 3: we could get a really good feel for what commercial

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Speaker 3: businesses around the territory are feeling and how the behavior

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Speaker 3: of any social activities is impacting on business.

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Speaker 2: And it was businesses that undertook the survey.

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Speaker 1: Ruth talk me through some of those key findings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Katie.

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Speaker 3: So what we saw, and you know, we spoke about

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Speaker 3: this last week as well. But now with all the

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Speaker 3: results compiled, ninety five percent of the respondent said that

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Speaker 3: they had seen an increase in crime and behavior in

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Speaker 3: the last six to twelve months. Seventy five percent of

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Speaker 3: them said that their commercial business had been impacted by

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Speaker 3: this behavior. But alarmingly from that, fifteen percent of people

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Speaker 3: had or their premise had been broken into eleven times

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Speaker 3: or more. So that's a massive number that we really

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Speaker 3: need to take into consideration.

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Speaker 2: That's fifteen percent of the four hundred.

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Speaker 3: And sixty two people said that they'd been hit more

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Speaker 3: than eleven times, and you've got to look at the

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Speaker 3: cost that then goes around that that's stabilitating for the

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Speaker 3: business it is, and you know, we've got some very

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Speaker 3: hard working territorians here. They've put their money into their businesses.

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Speaker 3: It's coming out of their own back pockets. So with

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Speaker 3: the repairs and the damages that they constantly have to

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Speaker 3: be paying is just something that territories shouldn't need to

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Speaker 3: be doing and business shouldn't be need to be doing,

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Speaker 3: and to be hit more than eleven times is just

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Speaker 3: absolutely unacceptable because they're at the point now that they

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Speaker 3: don't know what more they can.

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Speaker 2: Do to deter this behavior.

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Speaker 1: Gruth, Was there any feedback in terms of the cost

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Speaker 1: thing that that has on them financially but also mentally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: So we did have a question in there on how

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Speaker 3: much do you believe that you've spent on repairs and damages?

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Speaker 2: And we had a whirl wind of responses on that one.

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Speaker 3: So people had ranged from one hundred dollars to over

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Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of dollars. So when so I compiled

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Speaker 3: the report yesterday and next time I'll be able to

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Speaker 3: go through and I want to add up all the

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Speaker 3: actual costs, put it all together, because it has from

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Speaker 3: what I've seen quickly when I sort of went through

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Speaker 3: it, it is over a million dollars that has come out

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Speaker 3: of the back pockets, and that's a million dollars that

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Speaker 3: should be being better spent on their business or upgrading

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Speaker 3: their business on other things around their local communities, you know,

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Speaker 3: darw And Palmerston tenant Alice Catherine. You know, this is

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Speaker 3: money that's coming out that shouldn't be coming out, like

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Speaker 3: this is a waste of money.

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Speaker 1: It totally is. And it also erodes business confidence. It

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Speaker 1: erodes people sort of wanting to do business in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory, which I know is another question that you'd

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Speaker 1: put to those who took part in the survey whether

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Speaker 1: it is having an impact in terms of them wanting

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Speaker 1: to reinvest or invest more money and stay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: So we had seventy percent of people saying that it

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Speaker 3: has deterred them from further investing into their property and

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Speaker 3: from the possibility of acquiring new property, and seventy three

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Speaker 3: percent said that the behavior has commercially impacted their business.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we sent it to tenants as.

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Speaker 3: Well, so shop owners, anyone who has a commercial tenancy

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Speaker 3: in a building, so they were also sent the survey

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Speaker 3: and some of the some of the comments around that

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Speaker 3: were just really heartbreaking and quite disturbing to sort of

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Speaker 3: see what business owners are going through and what their

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Speaker 3: staff are feeling as well.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we've spoke about it last time.

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Speaker 3: We know that staff had to undergo counseling just because

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Speaker 3: of the types of behavior they were witnessing.

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Speaker 2: Ro The big.

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Speaker 1: Concern here is that, you know, this is another survey

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Speaker 1: which absolutely needs to be done, but the big question

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Speaker 1: and concern is the Northern Territory government listening.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So we presented the forty one page report to

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Speaker 3: the Chief Minister yesterday, myself and my President met with

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Speaker 3: with the Chief Minister and went through it.

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Speaker 2: Quite substantially, going through the results.

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Speaker 3: And it.

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Speaker 2: Was a very raw data set, so it had every.

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Speaker 3: Single comment that people had made and one of the

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Speaker 3: questions we had put in there is what measures do

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Speaker 3: you think the anti government should look to undertake to

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Speaker 3: be able to curb this behavior? And some of the

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Speaker 3: results from that. I know that the Chief Minister is

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Speaker 3: looking through, so she did say that she would go

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Speaker 3: through that with her team. But I just want to

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Speaker 3: point out when we sort of asked the question around

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Speaker 3: were you reporting the crime, this was.

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Speaker 2: A bit of a mixed response, so we had some

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Speaker 2: yes results but.

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Speaker 3: Also some nos, and people were sort of saying that

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Speaker 3: they weren't reporting the crime because there was limited evidence

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Speaker 3: of those who committed the crime or wouldn't be held responsible.

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Speaker 2: And they also said that it.

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Speaker 3: Was a waste of police resource because nothing would happen

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Speaker 3: to those offenders, and people saying that the insurance claims

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Speaker 3: are also really high. And you know, listening to you

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Speaker 3: this morning talking about the pay rise for police, you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that we did ask was do

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Speaker 3: you feel that there's enough resources for police? In eighty

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Speaker 3: five percent of people said no.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting that you know, everybody right across the

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Speaker 1: board right now feels as though we don't have enough

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory police officers. Look. I know that not absolutely

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Speaker 1: everyone in the community would feel that way, but a

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Speaker 1: large majority are certainly feeling like that. And to get

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Speaker 1: that kind of response, even from you know, commercial property

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Speaker 1: owners and business opera that they don't feel like we've

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Speaker 1: got enough Northern Territory police, you know, that in itself

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Speaker 1: is a concern. And then when you look at the

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Speaker 1: cops saying that they don't feel as though there's enough

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Speaker 1: of them to be able to do the jobs that

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Speaker 1: are being asked, we've got a real problem here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Katie.

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Speaker 3: And our sort of survey results going pretty hand in

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Speaker 3: hand with the one that the Police Association put out

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Speaker 3: as well, because not surprisingly, the figures are almost the same.

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Speaker 2: So we are seeing that people are thinking that.

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Speaker 3: There isn't enough resources and so they're not reporting the

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Speaker 3: crime because it's a waste of their police time because

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Speaker 3: they know nothing's going to happen to the offenders, whether

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Speaker 3: because they're underage or the inability to be able.

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Speaker 2: To identify these people.

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Speaker 3: So this is a real concern that all the crimes

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Speaker 3: that are happening aren't being reported, yet it's still occurring.

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Speaker 1: Ruth, why did the Property Council decide to undertake this

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Speaker 1: survey because a lot of people will be thinking, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, is it a space they'd expect you to

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Speaker 1: be in the Property council, But why did just decide

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Speaker 1: to actually do this.

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Speaker 3: Well, we've got commercial interests right across the entire territory

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Speaker 3: and we feel for our members and we feel for

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Speaker 3: everybody in the community that's going through this behavior. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we've been in this space for nearly two years now

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Speaker 3: talking about the impacts of crime, talking about how it

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Speaker 3: affects property, but also how it affects the population and

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Speaker 3: our tourism growth as well. So you know, ninety four

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Speaker 3: percent of people said that it's impacting the population, and

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Speaker 3: ninety six percent said that it's impacting tourism.

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Speaker 2: And this is right across the territory. So this is

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Speaker 2: a real.

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Speaker 3: Issue when we're trying to attract people to want to

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Speaker 3: come to the territory, to want to set up their

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Speaker 3: families here. You know, one of the questions we did

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Speaker 3: ask is are you considering leaving the NT with fifty

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Speaker 3: two percent of people saying that they are because because

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Speaker 3: they just don't feel safe. You know, sixty nine percent

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Speaker 3: of people said that they don't feel safe because they

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Speaker 3: they've had to change their behaviors. They're locking doors while driving,

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Speaker 3: they're not going out at night, they're not letting their

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Speaker 3: kids go to the playground. So these are real This

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Speaker 3: is real d that's come from territorians who are sort

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Speaker 3: of at the point now where they are considering leaving

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Speaker 3: and that they don't feel safe people walking around with

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Speaker 3: edge weapons.

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Speaker 2: Because we did.

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Speaker 3: Ask you know, the alarming figures full under sort of

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Speaker 3: what behavior has occurred on your premise, And I'll just

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Speaker 3: go through the numbers. We had thirty one percent of

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Speaker 3: people said that they've been spat on seventy percent of

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Speaker 3: people had experienced public urination or defecation on their property.

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Speaker 3: Eighty percent copped verbal abuse, thirty two percent physical abuse,

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Speaker 3: sixty six percent had threats against them or their property.

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Speaker 3: But I did ask a further question of other behaviors

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Speaker 3: that they'd witnessed. There was smoking, weed, edged weapons, litter,

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Speaker 3: rotten food, rough sleeping, intimidation, public masturbation, but also graffiti.

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Speaker 1: Wow, isn't that disgusting?

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Speaker 3: And that's happening right in our centers where we do

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Speaker 3: have tourists, where we do have people walking into their

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Speaker 3: shops every day, or commercial buildings going great, what am

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Speaker 3: I going to come to this morning?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. Look, it's something's got to change, Ruth.

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Speaker 1: What does need to happen here from your perspective.

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Speaker 3: So what we've done is, as I said, we presented

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Speaker 3: the forty one page report to the Chief Minister. We've

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Speaker 3: also given a copy to and spoken with the Lord Mayor.

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Speaker 3: I have sent it down to Alice Springs as well.

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Speaker 3: So now I guess it's just a matter of keeping

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Speaker 3: the pressure on the government to really go through the

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Speaker 3: comments that people have made around what measures the government

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Speaker 3: should look at but also the comments around sort of

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Speaker 3: how people are feeling in general and why people aren't

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Speaker 3: reporting these crimes, going through and actually looking at the

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Speaker 3: costs that this is costing, because this is stuff that

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Speaker 3: people will not further commercially invest into the territory unless

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Speaker 3: this behavior is corrected. And having the conversation with the

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Speaker 3: Chief Minister yesterday, she was very supportive of the work

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Speaker 3: that we had done around the survey, but also compiling

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Speaker 3: the data, we did present it very raw. There was

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Speaker 3: nothing that was in there that shouldn't have been. I

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Speaker 3: mean some of the language is quite quite hard to read,

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Speaker 3: just you know, with people's frustrations, but they are emotional,

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Speaker 3: they're off and that's right, and you know, reading it

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Speaker 3: is it's hard. As I said before, it is heartbreaking

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Speaker 3: and we would just expect now that the Chief Minister

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Speaker 3: does take the comments on board and works with her teams,

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Speaker 3: works with the police ministers, goes with the ngngos and

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Speaker 3: really look to enforce maybe some of the suggestions that

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Speaker 3: people have spent the time to put forward, and there's

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Speaker 3: some real common sense approaches that businesses have put in well.

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Speaker 1: Ruth Palmer, the executive director of the Northern Territory Property Council.

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Speaker 1: We are going to have to leave it there. As

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Speaker 1: always much appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much, Katie, thank you