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Speaker 1: We're not encouraging kids to engage in this behavior. We

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Speaker 1: much prefer that they don't. The kind of arguments I've

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Speaker 1: had with people, they say, well, how would you feel

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Speaker 1: if you're a child sextyt and it'd s ed. I'd

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Speaker 1: be mortified, I'd be disappointed. But if they did, and

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Speaker 1: they followed each of the strategies I offer in this article,

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Speaker 1: it would minimize my concern because it's less likely that

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Speaker 1: the really worst of the bad implications will happen.

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Speaker 2: This is the Parenting in Perspective podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's a Happy Families podcast, and my name is doctor

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Speaker 3: Justin Coulson.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so very much for being a part of

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Speaker 2: these in depth discussions.

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Speaker 3: Today, we're putting the subject of adolescent online behavior under

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Speaker 3: the microscope with doctor Justin Patchen. Justin is a professor

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Speaker 3: of Criminal Justice at the University of Wisconsin and in

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Speaker 3: the Worlds of Teens and Technology, he is a bona

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Speaker 3: fide global expert. Justin's been researching and studying how teens

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Speaker 3: interact online and with devices for almost twenty years, with

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Speaker 3: a focus on cyber bullying, social networking, and sexty. Justin

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Speaker 3: co founded the Cyber Bullying Research Center and has written

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Speaker 3: a number of books about the online world and adolescent behavior,

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Speaker 3: and his work has sent him all the way to

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Speaker 3: the White House and the FBI Academy to discuss the

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Speaker 3: fallout of teams and the misuse of technology. So Justin

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Speaker 3: and I met at a conference, the National Center Against

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Speaker 3: Bullying Conference in Melbourne a few years ago, and we

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Speaker 3: got to know one another. And he just knows his stuff.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to talk to him. I began, as

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Speaker 3: always by asking doctor Justin Patchen about his neck of

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Speaker 3: the woods and of course his family.

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Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate being on the podcast. And I'm in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: I'm in Altoona, Wisconsin, which is on the western side

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Speaker 1: of the state. And if you're not familiar with Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of in the middle of the northern US,

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Speaker 1: about halfway between Chicago and Minneapolis, if you know those

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Speaker 1: bigger cities. I actually grew up in far northern Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: which is closer to the Canadian border than I am now.

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Speaker 2: The way you are, it's cold, right like it snows.

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Speaker 1: It does snow, although today it was about eighty degrees fahrenheit,

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Speaker 1: so it's pretty warm. I mean, obviously it's our summertime

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Speaker 1: now so, but we get lots of snow in the winter.

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Speaker 1: But I love it here and I've been in Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: for sixteen years. I did my graduate school work in Michigan,

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Speaker 1: and like I said, I grew up in Minnesota. So

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Speaker 1: I have a wife and a little less than two

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, we celebrated our twentieth anniversary.

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Speaker 4: So we've been married for twenty.

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Speaker 1: Years and have a son who is ten years old,

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Speaker 1: and it's a great, great time, great age to be

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Speaker 1: a parent.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm excited to learn more about your family and

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Speaker 3: especially what you do with your work and have that

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Speaker 3: intersex with what you talk to your children, your son about.

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Speaker 3: But let's talk about the work that you do. You

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Speaker 3: run an international website about cyberbullying. I'd love for you

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Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about that website. But I'm

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Speaker 3: also really curious. So most of the people that I

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Speaker 3: talked to on this podcast have a psychology background. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's my real area of interest, my passion. It's my background.

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Speaker 3: You've got this criminal justice background, but here you are

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Speaker 3: talking about children and what's going on online. So tell

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Speaker 3: us about the cyberbuiling website. And I love this resource

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Speaker 3: I've relied on it many times and shared it often

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Speaker 3: on my Facebook page, But I'd love to know more

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Speaker 3: about the website and also why you decided to make

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Speaker 3: this your life's work.

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Speaker 1: I've always been interested in working with youth, so even

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Speaker 1: when I was in high school, I coached like t ball,

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Speaker 1: and I coached younger kids activities.

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Speaker 4: And I actually worked in the juvenile.

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Speaker 1: Justice system with youth when I was in college, and

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Speaker 1: I really loved it. I enjoyed it a lot, and

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Speaker 1: I was intersecting with other kind of professionals in that space,

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Speaker 1: probation officers, social workers, psychologists, and they said, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you really want to make a difference in this field,

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Speaker 1: you should go to graduate school and then you can

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Speaker 1: get these other jobs. And so I intended to get

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Speaker 1: a master's degree and then become like a juvenile probation

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Speaker 1: officer or caseworker or something like that. But I went

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Speaker 1: to graduate school at Michigan State University, and I loved

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Speaker 1: it so much that I hung around until they gave

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Speaker 1: me a PhD. But even my doctorate in criminal justice

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Speaker 1: was a very interdisciplinary degree. So I took a lot

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Speaker 1: of psychology classes, a lot of family and child ecology classes.

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Speaker 1: For my program, you have to set up kind of

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Speaker 1: a cognate an area, and mine was kind of juvenile

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Speaker 1: delinquency prevention or youth violence prevention. But the story of

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Speaker 1: the website cyberbullying dot org starts at Michigan State University

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Speaker 1: because my very first in graduate school on campus, I

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Speaker 1: met a guy named Samir Hinduja and he, you know,

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Speaker 1: I went to Michigan State to study, you know, youth

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Speaker 1: violence and school violence, bullying, those kinds of things. Samir

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Speaker 1: Kate went from Florida to Michigan to study computer crime

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Speaker 1: and high tech crime and identity theft. And he grew

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Speaker 1: up building computers and taking him apart and his dat

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Speaker 1: at a computer business. And so we shared an office,

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Speaker 1: a very tiny office on campus at Michigan State, and

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Speaker 1: we were doing the work of our professors, right, That's

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Speaker 1: what you do in graduate school, you know that. And

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Speaker 1: so we were doing the work of professors, but talking

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Speaker 1: about our own interests, mine in kids and his in

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Speaker 1: kind of technology. And round about maybe two thousand maybe

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, we started thinking about the ways

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Speaker 1: that kids were using technology or misusing technology, and this

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Speaker 1: term cyber bullying that we had heard came up and

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Speaker 1: we didn't know much about it.

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Speaker 3: And so this is like, this is the early two thousands.

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Speaker 3: There is no Facebook, there is no three G, there's

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Speaker 3: no smartphones. I'm just trying to get a recalibration of

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Speaker 3: what the digital environment was in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 3: I mean, people were accessing the internet. Googled was just

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Speaker 3: becoming a thing. But what was actually happening on the

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Speaker 3: internet then? And obviously, how did this conversation and this

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Speaker 3: relationship evolve into cyber bawling dot org and your ongoing partnership.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you guys still work together every day exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when we had first heard the term cyberbulling, what

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Speaker 1: we were hearing of examples of kids sending me emails

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Speaker 1: or more often it was in chat rooms. So back

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Speaker 1: in the late nineties, really two thousands. Chatrooms are a

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Speaker 1: big deal, and most people are familiar with chatrooms because

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Speaker 1: of kind of the concerns about predators and grooming and

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Speaker 1: those kinds of things, and so chatrooms specifically have kind

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Speaker 1: of gone out of fever probably since two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two or two thousand and three. We just started by

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Speaker 1: having chats with kids and some students that some youth

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Speaker 1: that we knew and asked them if they were running

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Speaker 1: into problems online. Then we talked to some teachers and

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Speaker 1: asked them if they were seeing problems in their schools

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Speaker 1: and ask them parents, what are you seeing? And they

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Speaker 1: would mention this stuff, and so we were starting to

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Speaker 1: see that there was an issue. So we did our

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Speaker 1: first kind of pilot survey of students and I think

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Speaker 1: it was in two thousand and two, might have been

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Speaker 1: in late two thousand and one, but it took us

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Speaker 1: like a year and a half just to do the

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Speaker 1: research because Michigan State University didn't want to approve us

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Speaker 1: to do the research because we were probably one of

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Speaker 1: the first on campus to do online research and so

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Speaker 1: they didn't have protocols through our institutional review board for

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Speaker 1: consent and all those things. So it took over a

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Speaker 1: year to get the permission to do this, and so

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Speaker 1: it was a very simple study.

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Speaker 4: It was a convenience sample.

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Speaker 1: I think we linked a survey to a couple of

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Speaker 1: websites that were popular among kids at the time, and

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Speaker 1: we just wanted to see what was going on there,

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Speaker 1: and one question in that survey really caught our attention.

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Speaker 1: So since we didn't know much about cyberbullying. We had

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Speaker 1: one open ended question in the survey, tell us, in

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Speaker 1: as much detail as you feel comfortable about your most

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Speaker 1: recent experience with cyber bullying. And we figured, because we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with adolescens, they would give us like a one

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Speaker 1: sentence response, you know, it sucked or it was terrible

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Speaker 1: or they were mean. But they told us they gave

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Speaker 1: us like paragraphs. I mean, they wrote so much in

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Speaker 1: this survey, many of them, that it messed up our survey,

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Speaker 1: Like we had to establish certain boundaries for how many

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Speaker 1: characters to allow on a survey, and we didn't allow enough.

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Speaker 1: And so when we got the data dump, everything was

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Speaker 1: messed up and it took us like three four months

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Speaker 1: just to.

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Speaker 4: Fix the data.

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Speaker 1: But we learned right then and there that there was

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Speaker 1: a story that these kids wanted to tell. They didn't

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable telling their parents about it because they didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything, especially back then about technology, so they were

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Speaker 1: just kind of holding onto this. And so we've been

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Speaker 1: studying ever since, and we've done you know, probably fifteen

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Speaker 1: informal surveys of adolescence. We've surveyed parents, we've surveyed police, officers,

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Speaker 1: and we've been going from there.

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Speaker 3: How does this happen? You meet some random person and

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Speaker 3: end up sharing an office. The next thing you know,

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Speaker 3: you've created your life's work together. It's interesting as we

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Speaker 3: consider what life used to be like. When you started

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Speaker 3: to describe it, I was like, Oh, it almost sounds

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Speaker 3: so it almost sounds so nice. We were dealing with

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Speaker 3: the you know, some chat room issues compared to the

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Speaker 3: stuff now. I don't want to downplay it because it

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Speaker 3: was serious, and obviously the messages that you were getting

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Speaker 3: from people through your data highlighted the seriousness of it.

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Speaker 3: But as you said, the technology shift in the last

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Speaker 3: twenty years has been extraordinary. When you look at what

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Speaker 3: the data is telling us today, what's your sense of

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Speaker 3: what's going on online?

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Speaker 2: What do parents need to know now?

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Speaker 1: They need to know a lot about a lot of

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Speaker 1: different things. But I think sometimes parents worry too much

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Speaker 1: about things that aren't as big of a so, particularly

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Speaker 1: in the early days of our work two thousand to

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven or eight, will say, parents were

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Speaker 1: primarily concerned with kind of the grooming and the stranger

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Speaker 1: danger and my kid's going to meet some predator in

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Speaker 1: a chat room. And they're going to get kidnapped. And

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Speaker 1: while that does happen, it's extremely rare. We obviously need

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Speaker 1: to be aware of it. We need to have conversations

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Speaker 1: with our kids about who they're interacting with online.

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Speaker 4: But if we're focusing so.

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Speaker 1: Much on this one problem, we'll forget that it's much

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Speaker 1: more likely that our child is going to be victimized

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Speaker 1: by somebody they know. Right, So if you're preaching to

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Speaker 1: them don't talk to strangers online, well, then they might

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Speaker 1: be talking with somebody that they have a relationship with,

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Speaker 1: a family member, some other person, and then let their

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Speaker 1: guard down. They need to have general skills about keeping

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Speaker 1: themselves safe online, no matter who they're communicating with.

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Speaker 3: And this kind of gets to what I guess would

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Speaker 3: call it the psychological heuristics, like the availability heuristic.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so there are so.

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Speaker 3: Many clicks when there's one of those awful stories, and

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Speaker 3: they do exist. I mean, we need to acknowledge that

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Speaker 3: this is an extraordinarily serious crime and it does happen,

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Speaker 3: and some people are their lives have changed forever because

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Speaker 3: of these kinds of experiences. But the media will obviously

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Speaker 3: make a big deal about it, and therefore there's a

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Speaker 3: sense in the minds of parents that this kind of

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Speaker 3: thing is happening all the time. And what I'm hearing

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Speaker 3: you say is yet happens yet serious, And yes, we

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Speaker 3: need to talk to about children about it. It's important

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Speaker 3: that we are across it. But this is unlikely to

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Speaker 3: be the reality for most of our children. They're going

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Speaker 3: to be dealing with other kinds of things other than

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Speaker 3: potentially being groomed.

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Speaker 2: They might be, and we need to protect.

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Speaker 3: But once we've had one or two conversations, we're probably

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Speaker 3: okay to focus on other things.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And so the analogy I sometimes use is talking to

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Speaker 1: your children about going outside in a thunderstorm. Right, they

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Speaker 1: could get struck by lighting. That's a really bad thing

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Speaker 1: that could happen. It does happen, but more like they're

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Speaker 1: even get soaking wet, they might get sick. They might

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of other potentially bad things

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Speaker 1: that could happen as well, and we need to have

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Speaker 1: conversations with them about all of those things. But you

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to dwell on the lightning because once

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Speaker 1: you say, look, if it's lightning outside, you probably want

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Speaker 1: to get inside.

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Speaker 4: You probably want to stay away from that tree.

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Speaker 1: Uh, Lightning, Yeah, don't swim in the pool, right and so,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's a it's a serious enough issue lightning

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Speaker 1: or predators that you probably only need to have one

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Speaker 1: or two conversations with them because they get it.

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Speaker 4: They figure that out pretty quick. Kids too.

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Speaker 1: But when you're talking about relationships that they're going to

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Speaker 1: have with their peers and some of the potential problems

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Speaker 1: that might arise in those situations, particularly when you have

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Speaker 1: the peer pressure.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And as you pointed out, those issues aren't covered as

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Speaker 1: heavily in the media. I think those are the ones

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Speaker 1: we need to spend more time having conversations with our

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Speaker 1: kids about.

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Speaker 3: So what are you seeing in the data in terms

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Speaker 3: of these these interpersonal you know, the psychological term is

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Speaker 3: relational aggression. Okay, we've got we've got kids that are

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Speaker 3: being unkind to kids online. I mentioned ask FM from

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Speaker 3: you know, two thousand and eight or whenever it was

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Speaker 3: when that was going benign is now it just happens

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Speaker 3: on Snapchat, and it happens on TikTok and and we

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Speaker 3: see people engaging in harmful trends. They make the news

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Speaker 3: all the time as well. Do we need to be

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Speaker 3: mindful of that? How do how do we deal with

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Speaker 3: the bullying thing? How prevalent is it?

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Speaker 2: What about sexting?

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Speaker 3: Give us a snapshot of where the world is and

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Speaker 3: how our children are being affected.

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Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people like to ask me, you

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Speaker 1: know what the worst app is, or what the worst

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Speaker 1: site is, or where bullying is happening happening most often?

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Speaker 1: And I often when I answer that question, sometimes I

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Speaker 1: throw them a curve ball and I say, well, bullying

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Speaker 1: is happening most often at school, you know, because in

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Speaker 1: all the research we've done, bullying still affects more kids

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Speaker 1: at school than online. And so I wrote a blog post,

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Speaker 1: kind of controversial post a few years ago saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: ban school open Facebook, because the data is clear that

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Speaker 1: the more there's more kids affected at school than online.

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Speaker 1: But that's a function of kind of where they are.

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Speaker 1: And so if you when parents or anybody wants to

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Speaker 1: know the app that has the most bullying, just look

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Speaker 1: at the app where more kids are hanging out. So

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Speaker 1: now it's Snapchat, it's TikTok. So you're going to see

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Speaker 1: problems in these environments. There's nothing inherently bad about most

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Speaker 1: social media sites. There are some really bad ones, right,

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Speaker 1: but most kids aren't using those and some are maybe

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Speaker 1: experimenting with them.

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Speaker 4: But the more popular the app is, the.

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Speaker 1: More likely we're going to see problems on there, whether

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Speaker 1: it's cyber bullying or used in any number of ways

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Speaker 1: to get into trouble.

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Speaker 2: Where the people are is where the problems are likely too.

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Speaker 4: Exactly that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that we see consistently in our

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Speaker 1: research is it's very rare for a child to only

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Speaker 1: be bullied online. If they're being bullied online, something like

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Speaker 1: eighty five percent of the time, they're being bullied at

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Speaker 1: school as well. And it's hard to know if it's

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Speaker 1: the same kids who are doing it about the same

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Speaker 1: issues or what the causes are. But this is another

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Speaker 1: reason why we know less of an issue now than

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Speaker 1: it was fifteen years ago, with schools were reluctant to

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Speaker 1: get involved in cyber bullying incidents, saying that if it

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Speaker 1: happened online, it's not our responsibility, there's nothing we can do.

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Speaker 1: I think that mentality is changing slowly for one reason,

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Speaker 1: because we've been able to make the case that, look,

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Speaker 1: if it's happening online is probably happening at the school

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Speaker 1: as well, and once the school digs into.

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Speaker 4: It, they tend to see that it is happening there also.

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Speaker 2: So when I look.

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Speaker 3: At the data around the online challenges that parents are

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Speaker 3: most likely to experience, and you can correct me if

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Speaker 3: I'm wrong, but I see the biggest three issues as cyberbullying,

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Speaker 3: explicit content, children being exposed to online content that is well,

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Speaker 3: you could argue that it's not for anybody, but it's

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Speaker 3: certainly not for children.

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Speaker 2: And the third thing that I see as.

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Speaker 3: Being challenging for parents is just the compulsion that kids

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Speaker 3: have to be online. You know, I can't get them

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Speaker 3: off their phone, They're in their room and they just

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Speaker 3: won't leave it alone. So I wonder if we can

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Speaker 3: just talk about each of these and you can tell

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Speaker 3: me what your data is showing in terms of how

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Speaker 3: much it's happening, but also what parents might do to

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Speaker 3: help their children to make good decisions around this. You

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Speaker 3: write a very provocative piece at the start of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty about sexting, so let's start there. Sexting is what

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Speaker 3: the adults call sending nudes, but essentially the definition is

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Speaker 3: taking photos or a video of your private parts. And

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Speaker 3: sending them to somebody else.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so we've been studying sexting now for a while.

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Speaker 3: How much does it happen? Because everyone's paranoid that everyone's doing.

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Speaker 4: It, everyone is not doing it.

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Speaker 1: And I get frustrated because I do see headlines here

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Speaker 1: in the US that say that exact thing, everyone's doing it,

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Speaker 1: the majority of kids are doing it. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: simply not true. And there's no research that has shown

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Speaker 1: a majority of teens have participated in sexting, both either

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Speaker 1: sending or receiving.

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Speaker 3: There was an Australian government study done just a few

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Speaker 3: years ago. I can't remember the government department that did it,

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Speaker 3: but I looked carefully at the data and they were

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Speaker 3: finding that around fifty percent of Australian teenagers were doing it.

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Speaker 3: It's the only data that I've ever found with numbers

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Speaker 3: that high. Usually it's less than twenty percent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, ours are less than twenty percent. We did a

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Speaker 1: national study in the US in twenty sixteen. We replicated

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Speaker 1: again in twenty nineteen, and you know, roughly thirteen to

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent have sent an explicit image. And these are

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Speaker 1: this is twelve to seventeen year old. So this is

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Speaker 1: sort of middle school and high school for us.

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Speaker 3: And just before you go on too, the other data

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Speaker 3: about twelve to fifteen percent of twelve to seventeen year olds.

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Speaker 3: I presume that there's a linear relationship between age and

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Speaker 3: likelihood of sending. So the older you get, the more

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Speaker 3: likely it is that you're going to send something explicit.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, so the seventeen year olds, I think we're like

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Speaker 1: twenty three percent or something compared to I think it

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Speaker 1: was like six percent of the twelve twelve. But it

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Speaker 1: was just perfectly linear in terms of the older, the

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Speaker 1: more likely they were to do it. To send and

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Speaker 1: then receiving was about twenty percent, a little bit less.

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Speaker 1: And so we ask whether it'd been a boyfriend or

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend, or a mantic interest or some other person

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Speaker 1: who wasn't a current boyfriend or girlfriend, and uh so

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Speaker 1: it's more likely they're going to send and receive to

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Speaker 1: and from somebody that are romantically involved with. And so

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Speaker 1: that's that's twenty percent is not good, right, We don't want,

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Speaker 1: you know, kids to be doing this these kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: But it's not fifty percent, it's not seventy five percent.

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Speaker 1: And I'm concerned because We've done some work on kind

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Speaker 1: of social norming, and if we if we talk about

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Speaker 1: this as normal behavior, not in the sense of is okay,

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Speaker 1: but as common as frequent, like every kid is out

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Speaker 1: getting drunk on the weekend, every kid's having sex, every kids.

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Speaker 1: Then if there's one thing that everybody can agree upon

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Speaker 1: when it comes to adolescence, is the one thing they

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Speaker 1: want to do is fit in.

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Speaker 4: They want to do what other people are doing.

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Speaker 1: So if I hear these these stories that everybody is

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Speaker 1: engaging in sexting and I'm not doing it, then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to feel some pressure to do it, and maybe

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Speaker 1: my partner is pressuring me to send an explicit image

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Speaker 1: and I don't really want to do it, But you know,

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Speaker 1: I've seen all this stuff where everybody's doing it, so

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Speaker 1: then I might acquiesce to that even though the reality

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Speaker 1: is most aren't doing it.

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Speaker 3: Your article highlighted that we need to teach our children

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Speaker 3: safe sexting now for the last for the last decade

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Speaker 3: or more, I've been saying to children, to adolescents, and

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Speaker 3: to parents, there's no such thing as safe sexting. So

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Speaker 3: you're taking a harm minimization approach. And what I've been saying,

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Speaker 3: is you just can't do this safely. Now, once I

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Speaker 3: read your article and the excitement of the headline went away,

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Speaker 3: I actually think that there's an extraordinary amount of common

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Speaker 3: ground here. We pretty much say the same thing, but

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Speaker 3: we've framed it a little bit differently. So why would

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Speaker 3: you say that we need to teach our children to

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Speaker 3: sext safely or you know, to send explicit content safely.

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Speaker 3: Tell me a bit about that and how you would

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Speaker 3: have that conversation with a child.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we use that title provocative title intentionally, and

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Speaker 1: some of it is just riffing off, you know, safe

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Speaker 1: sex education because we talk about safe sex and you know,

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Speaker 1: is sex ever one hundred percent safe?

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Speaker 4: And it's not. And it's the same thing with sexting.

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Speaker 1: And so the reality is some young people are engaging

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Speaker 1: in sexting, they are exchanging explicit images. And I got

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Speaker 1: a lot of messages about that article. So it was

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Speaker 1: in the Journal Adolescent Health last year, and I got

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Speaker 1: a lot of correspondence, most of it very positive, kind

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Speaker 1: of like what you said. Some of it was very negative,

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Speaker 1: but it was clear from the criticism that they hadn't

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Speaker 1: actually read the paper right, So maybe they read the

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Speaker 1: abstract or but they didn't actually read the argument. But

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Speaker 1: the point is if there is some segment of the

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Speaker 1: population that's doing it, if they're going to do it,

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Speaker 1: I would prefer that they do it in a way

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Speaker 1: that will limit the most extreme, the most serious consequences

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Speaker 1: that that could happen. So, if you think about sexting,

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Speaker 1: the couple of things that you're most worried about as

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Speaker 1: a parent if your child would do it, is that

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Speaker 1: the image they send will be shared with others, right,

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Speaker 1: will be kind of posted online for others to see.

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Speaker 1: To youth in a committed relationship exchange explicit images with each.

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Speaker 4: Other and they don't go anywhere else.

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Speaker 1: If it's just between those two and they never go

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Speaker 1: anywhere else, we probably don't want them doing it. But

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Speaker 1: there's no long term serious consequences there. There is a

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Speaker 1: good chance that I mean when you're talking about adolescence,

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Speaker 1: that those images will potentially be shared. But kids need

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Speaker 1: to know that, they need to be made aware of that. Look,

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Speaker 1: if you share an image with somebody, they could share

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Speaker 1: it with their friends, they could post.

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Speaker 4: It online, so they need to be aware of that.

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Speaker 1: The other concern is the potential criminal implications is you

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Speaker 1: don't want your child to be arrested for creating and

438
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 1: distributing child pornography. So the kinds of strategies for safe

439
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: sexting that we talk about, we may be taking the

440
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: fun out of sexting. I mean, so you're doing it

441
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: in a way where maybe you're not sharing something explicit,

442
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: but you're you're you're sharing a flirty photo that has

443
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: you know, the most explicit of explicit parts covered. You

444
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: don't include your face so that if it does get posted,

445
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: it can't be linked directly to you, right, don't don't

446
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 1: include any any identifying characteristics. Don't have it in your

447
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: bedroom with you know, posters in the background, or you know,

448
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: if you have that.

449
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 3: Family photo family photo photo, don't have the picture of

450
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 3: Grandma on the back as you're doing this.

451
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: It's that's not a good look. But we're not encouraging

452
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: kids to engage in this behavior. We much prefer that

453
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: they don't. But the kind of arguments I've had with

454
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: people is they say, well, how would you feel if

455
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: you're child sexted? And I said, I'd be mortified, I'd

456
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: be disappointed.

457
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 4: But if they did and.

458
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: They followed each of the strategies I offer in this article,

459
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: I it would minimize my concern because there's it's least

460
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: it's less likely that the really worst of the bad

461
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: implications will happen.

462
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: Okay, So how do you have the conversation with your child.

463
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: Let's say you've got a a fifteen year old who's

464
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 3: entered a romantic relationship and you just know that this

465
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: is going to have to be a topic of discussion

466
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 3: because eventually somebody's going to put some pressure on someone

467
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 3: somewhere to send an image.

468
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: This is it is part of the course.

469
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 3: You know, when you look at the numbers in terms

470
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 3: of how many children are being asked to send something

471
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 3: like this to their romantic interest, those numbers are pretty high.

472
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 3: Most girls will say that they've received substantial pressure from

473
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 3: a number of places to send something explicit. So how

474
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 3: do you have that conversation with your son or your

475
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 3: daughter around the consensual aspect of it? And also just

476
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 3: how do you even bring it up?

477
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 4: I think you do need to bring it up.

478
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: I don't know that the data is that clear that

479
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: it's happening as much as you say, I think the

480
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: data are mixed. We've asked students in both of our

481
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen or twenty nineteen, if they've been asked for

482
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: explicit images, and if they have asked others, and that

483
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: the numbers aren't above forty fifty percent.

484
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 4: But I have seen some data. I was just talking

485
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: with another researcher.

486
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: Earlier this week, and her data was like, sick to

487
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: your seventy percent. She did more qualitative stuff, and I

488
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: think I think the numbers are somewhere in between.

489
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it is happening.

490
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: But nevertheless, as a parent, you need to have a

491
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: conversation with your child, both boys and girls, about this.

492
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: And it's all about kind of respect and consent and

493
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: giving kids strategies for deflecting, making sure number one that

494
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: they're not pressured to do anything they don't want to do,

495
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, empowering them to make good decisions. And it's

496
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: just like having to talk about sex, right, I mean,

497
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: parents have been struggling with this conversation for generations and

498
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: this is just another part of that conversation. At some point,

499
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: as a parent, you have to recognize the place that

500
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: your child is in and then maybe you have the

501
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: conversation about sex and sexting and relationships and consent and

502
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: what healthy relationships mean. And it's not common. Most kids

503
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: aren't exchanging these images. Here are some considerations. Realize that

504
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: this may be your boyfriend now, but you know, not

505
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: very many people end up marrying their high school you know,

506
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: boyfriend or a girlfriend. And so I actually had a

507
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: student told me this. I was speaking at a school

508
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: and a student said, you know, what I think about

509
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: is what I want my ex boyfriend to have these

510
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: images And given that probably my current boyfriend is going

511
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: to eventually be my ex boyfriend, I don't know that

512
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: I want to send on these images. And I thought

513
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: that was kind of interesting, but definitely having this conversations,

514
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: and honestly, I think as parents, you don't need to

515
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: be an expert on this issue to dive into it

516
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: with your kids. Take the time, you know, do some reading,

517
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, try to do some basic research. But struggle

518
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: with these issues with your kids together. Maybe do some

519
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: research together and learn about these things together. It's a

520
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: difficult topic, but you can be in this with them together.

521
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: It's that relationship that you have with your child is

522
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: going to more than anything, influence the decisions they make.

523
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: They don't want to let you down, their behavior is

524
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: more a function of what you think and your relationship

525
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: with them. Then they don't think they're going to get

526
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: arrested for distributing child pornography. Plus they're not going to

527
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: the odds are they're not going to But are they

528
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: going to be Are they gonna upset you as the parent?

529
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: Are they going to disappoint other relatives if they find

530
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: out that they did that? So that relationship building is

531
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: hugely important.

532
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: I love that.

533
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: The other thing that strikes me quite strongly as you

534
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 3: say this, is that most of our children actually want

535
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 3: to have this conversation with us. You know, they're looking

536
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 3: for us to show some Yeah, they've got questions, they're

537
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 3: looking for us to show some leadership. They're going to

538
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 3: think that it's all icky and weird, and they don't

539
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 3: know that they necessarily want to get into it. But

540
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: once we start the conversation, most of them will actually

541
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: be like, Oh, I'm feeling relieved that I can talk

542
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 3: to you about this, So we need to do that.

543
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: You mentioned some deflection strategies. So let's say I've got

544
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 3: a son or a daughter and my child is being

545
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 3: pressured by their romantic interest to send an explicit image

546
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: or they've been sent images that they didn't request, and

547
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 3: as much as they really like the romantic interests, they

548
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 3: would really kind of prefer that they not send that

549
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: stuff to them. What are some useful deflection strategies that

550
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 3: a parent could teach their child?

551
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: How do you say no?

552
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah?

553
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: I think there are actually quite a few websites that

554
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: provide some kind of humorous responses, or you send, you know,

555
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: pictures of fruit, or you do that kind of thing

556
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: in response, just kind of make a lighthearted response. But

557
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: I mean, there are some things you can do and

558
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: say it's something to the fact of, look my parents

559
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: look through my cell phone, or you know, I don't

560
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with this, or I've seen too many examples

561
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: in the news where even though I love you, I

562
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: just don't want to put either of us in a

563
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: situation where something bad could happen in our relationship. So

564
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: I think it's recognizing the nature of that relationship. But also,

565
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: if you have a partner that is pressuring you to

566
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: send images and you just you don't feel comfortable inside

567
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: doing it, that's a problem that you're going to have

568
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: to bring up in your relationship with that person. What's

569
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: more likely is you really do love that other person.

570
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: You're feeling some of the person and you want to

571
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: make them happy and you don't want to let them down.

572
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: And so having that conversation with them, if they're a

573
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: good partner for you, they will understand that. And as

574
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: long as you explain what your heart is telling you,

575
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: I think that it'll you know, it will definitely be

576
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: an opportunity for you to have this conversation without it

577
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: getting too messy. And it's a difficult conversation, but you

578
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: have to. You have to have these conversations in order

579
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: to advance the nature of that relationship.

580
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: I say to my kids all the time. True friends

581
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 3: don't ask you to do things that violate your principles.

582
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 3: And if you're clear about your principles and you've got

583
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 3: a boyfriend, because I've obviously got all these girls and

584
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: they mostly boy crazy, if you've got a romantic interest

585
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 3: and he's pressing you to do something that violates your

586
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: deeply held principles, then he's not the right guy for you.

587
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 3: And you know, they respond really well to just an

588
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 3: upfront conversation. I guess what you're really saying is it's

589
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 3: about consent and respect, which is kind of where we started. Okay,

590
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,479
Speaker 3: let's switch the conversation to cyber building because we've got

591
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: so much more to cover, and time in these conversations

592
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: always runs out so quickly. So how much is that happening?

593
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 3: And how to parents support their children because this is vexed, right.

594
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: I mean, you've got a child who's getting bullied or

595
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: feels like their relationships are falling apart, and trying to

596
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 3: try to gently support them and help them through these

597
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 3: hard times is terribly hard, terribly challenging.

598
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: So how much is it happening? And what do we

599
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: need to know?

600
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, here in the US, our data show that about

601
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: probably twenty five percent maybe a little bit more than that,

602
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: of middle and high school age students have been cyberbullied

603
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: at some point in their lifetime. Ten to twelve percent

604
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: say they've experienced it in the most recent thirty days.

605
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: Those numbers are pretty stable over the last five to

606
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: seven years.

607
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: And they're similar here in Australia too, not a huge

608
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: amount of difference there.

609
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: No, I mean, I think there's the perception, the public

610
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: perception that cyberbuilding is skyrocketing or that it's an epidemic,

611
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: and it really has been pretty stable. Bullying at school

612
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: has maybe decreased a little bit over the last you know,

613
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: five years here in the US, but it still happens

614
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: more than the cyber bullying. In our research, we ask

615
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: about cyber bullying in a pretty comprehensive way. We ask

616
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: about you know, we define cyber bullying it's intentional, repeated

617
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: and harmful things. And then we say have you been

618
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: cyber bullid? And then we ask about a dozen specific behaviors,

619
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: you know, as somebody posted hurtful rumors about you online,

620
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: and somebody said something you know, like sexually explicit about

621
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: you on let's we ask about it in a number

622
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: of different ways. And the reality is, you know, maybe

623
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: a third of kids have experienced it, and it's it's

624
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: probably likely that your kids will experience it at some

625
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: point in their lifetime. And here again I'm going to

626
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: go back to the importance of the relationship because kids

627
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: are reluctant to tell parents about while all the negative

628
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: experiences they have online, but especially you know, cyber bullying

629
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: or sexting, because they're afraid that parents are going to

630
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: freak out, that parents are going to take away the technology.

631
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: And we know how important technology is in the lives

632
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: of adolescents these days. So I think parents need to

633
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: be proactive and talk with their kids and say, look,

634
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: I know that you're going to run into some challenging

635
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: situations online. I know you're going to have some problems

636
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: with your friends and your partners, and just realize that

637
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: I am here for you. We'll work through them together,

638
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I'm not gonna throw your cell phone

639
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: out the window. Certainly, if a child misbehaves online, if

640
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: they're cyber bullying others or doing something they shouldn't be,

641
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: maybe a break from technology is warranted right as a

642
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: kind of a natural consequence. But far too often kids

643
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: who are being targeted are losing kind of their their

644
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: either social media privileges or online privileges under the guys

645
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: that look, if you're being bullied on Snapchat, if we

646
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: kick you off Snapchat, you're not gonna be bullied on

647
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: Snapchat anymore. And basically now your child is being essentially

648
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: victimized twice, and so help them work through that.

649
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 4: The other way to do it.

650
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: Is have conversations with your kids in a way that

651
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: empowers them. So give them tools. So let's talk about

652
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: Snapchat or let's talk about Instagram. How do you block

653
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: somebody who is being me and to you? How do

654
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: you report somebody? Because in all of these major apps,

655
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: cyber bullying is a violation of their terms of service,

656
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: So how do you report somebody?

657
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 4: What should you do?

658
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: If you are being cyberbuloid? You should maybe keep the evidence,

659
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: take a screenshot, right, don't say something mean back to

660
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: the person. So give the child some very practical tools

661
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: that they can use in the moment when it's happening,

662
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: so that they're not panicking. And because the gut response

663
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: of a kid who's being cyberbloid is to lash out

664
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: and say something back mean to the other kid. And

665
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: now it's not cyber bullying. Now it's a fight, you know.

666
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: Now it's conflict, and so that's different. So you don't

667
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: want them to fall into that trap of getting involved

668
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: in those behaviors.

669
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 3: I love the advice that, especially that last idea. Somebody

670
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 3: might provoke you, somebody may niggle and tease and bully,

671
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 3: but once you start to fight back, it becomes a

672
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: conflict and it just gets so messy. So if I

673
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: was to summarize some useful strategies, what you're suggesting is

674
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: you teach them how to block, you teach them how

675
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: to report, you teach them how to actually come and

676
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: get help. A lot of children don't want to come

677
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: and get help because even if they're not going to

678
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: lose their device, which is a far too common threat,

679
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: most teenagers that I talk to will say, oh yeah,

680
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 3: but when I involve the adults, that only makes it worse.

681
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 3: You talked about empowering your children, and there's a strategy

682
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: that I often share with parents where I talk about

683
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 3: whether it's explicit content and you know, sexting and all

684
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: those sorts of things, or cyberbullying. I like to start

685
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 3: a conversation with my child nice and wide, whereby I say, so,

686
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: I want to have a chat with you about cyberbullying.

687
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: I'm not going to ask so much about you. I'm

688
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: just curious. Do you see much of it happening while

689
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: you're online? You know, are your friends involved in it?

690
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 3: So you start wide. Do you see it happening much?

691
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: Is it happening much at school? Do your friends get

692
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: involved in it? How safe are your friends? How safe

693
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 3: do you feel? And you get closer and closer to

694
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: your child, but you've inched your way into the conversation

695
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: with a very general commencement and just gotten closer and

696
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 3: closer to them. And what my experience has been there

697
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: with parents that I've shared with and with my own

698
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 3: children is that because we're not asking them anything directly

699
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 3: about them, initially they feel completely safe and secure. This

700
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 3: is a conversation about what's happening at school, not about

701
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: what's happening to me.

702
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: But bit by bit we.

703
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 3: Just come closer and now they're in the conversation and

704
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 3: it's got some momentum, and they can feel what our

705
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 3: motives are. They know that we're not on the attack,

706
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 3: We're not coming at this strategically so that we can

707
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: find out what's going on. I mean we kind of are,

708
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 3: but not in that way that makes them feel uncomfortable.

709
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: And then they're much more likely to open up and say, actually,

710
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 3: yet it has happened, or I'm watching it happen with

711
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: my friend. And what I'm always conscious of is, hopefully

712
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: it's not happening to our children, but if it is

713
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: happening to somebody, they know we get to talk to

714
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: them about all these hype theeticals.

715
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: Well, what are some of the ways that you could

716
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: help your friend. What are some of the things that

717
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: your friend could do?

718
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: What are some solutions that might be useful if it

719
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: was to ever happen to you?

720
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 2: And we're kind of pre arming them before they're in it.

721
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 4: Now.

722
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: Of course, if they're in it, we can go through

723
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 3: the same process, but it's not quite as comfortable, and

724
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 3: so I encourage parents to have these conversations ahead of time,

725
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: especially if they know that something's happening in the friendship

726
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 3: group or in that general social circle.

727
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 2: It just it just seems to soften it a little bit.

728
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: I agree, justin this has been such a such a

729
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 3: really wonderful conversation. There's there's a couple of other things

730
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: that I really briefly want to ask you before I

731
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 3: get to my rapid fire five quick family questions. So

732
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: just a couple of quick things. I know that you've

733
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 3: watched those brilliant New Zealand Net safe adverts talking about pornography,

734
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 3: talking about grooming, talking about cyberballing, talking about explicit material

735
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: with your children. We've kind of covered a fair bit

736
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 3: of that already, but I wonder if if you could

737
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: tell me, first of all, did you in enjoy the

738
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 3: content that they've shared as much as me. And secondly,

739
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 3: can we just talk about developmentally when children are needing

740
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: these conversations, because obviously we're not going to talk to

741
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 3: an eight year old about the same things that we

742
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 3: will talk about with a.

743
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: Sixteen year old.

744
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 3: So when when do we talk about cyber bullying and

745
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 3: being safe online? What are the right ages to be

746
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 3: having these discussions.

747
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, first of all, I love the videos because they

748
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a humor to them, and

749
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: they approach really difficult subjects in a very approachable way,

750
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: and it shows that you can have conversations with your

751
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: kids about these things without you know, making a huge

752
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: deal out of it and going back to what you

753
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: said earlier about these conversations and being proactive. I think

754
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: it's also important to pick the right time right So

755
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: don't you know, necessarily broach these topics right after your

756
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: kids get out of school. They're worn down, it's been

757
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 1: a rough day, and now you're going to be pelting

758
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: them with all these questions. So we tell you're on

759
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: that you know, forty five minute drive to you know,

760
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: this fun thing that they're going to do, or just

761
00:36:58,920 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: make sure they're in the.

762
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 4: Right mind that to have these conversations.

763
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: And when it comes to and you know, these kind

764
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: of advertisements like this can help stimulate those conversations.

765
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 4: You know, you can watch them together.

766
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: And you can it can be an opportunity for you

767
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 1: to have this conversation. But when it comes to the age,

768
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: that's a really tricky thing because every kid's a little different, right,

769
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: And so I think as parents we need to kind

770
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: of sense like when our kids are on the cusp

771
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: of participating in certain technologies, like you know, maybe your

772
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: child is is just now getting into a relationship with somebody,

773
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: So then you need to sort of ease into those

774
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: conversations if you can.

775
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 4: See that they're maybe having.

776
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: Some difficulty in interpersonal relationships at school, if they're using

777
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: technology more often, if they're obviously if they're just getting

778
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: logged onto new apps, is a good a good opportunity

779
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: to talk about safety on that particular app. So I

780
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: think it really does differ depending on the child and

781
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: you what do you have? You have six daughters, I think, right,

782
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: I mean, so I have to imagine each one was

783
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: a little different in terms of when it was appropriate

784
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: to brought certain subjects and at what points you just

785
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: pass it off to your oldest daughter to do the

786
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: hard work.

787
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 2: We do a bit of it all.

788
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 3: So sometimes we just have a general family conversation, you know,

789
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: we'll sit down and say, all right, guys, let's just

790
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: talk about X, Y or Z, and the whole family's in.

791
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 3: And other times we sit down with the child because

792
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 3: they've come and said, you know, I'm on this app

793
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: or I want to download this app. So yeah, I

794
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 3: think that there's got to be that level of personalization.

795
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 3: Let me spin the conversation around for just a sec.

796
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: When you think about the work that you do, you

797
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 3: would hear you'd be hearing stories all the time, and

798
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: many of them would be scary and deeply concerning. Yet

799
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: you're wonderfully optimistic. So I'm guessing that there have to

800
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 3: have been some wonderful, uplifting, positive, powerful stories that you've

801
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: seen in the cyber world in terms of people being

802
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: resilient or making good out of the ugly that happens.

803
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 3: I wonder if you can think of an example that

804
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 3: might be hope giving to parents who have heard this

805
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 3: long conversation about all of these challenges and I'm wondering,

806
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: how am I really going to survive this?

807
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can appreciate that question. So Samir and I

808
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: have written a number of books, and I don't know

809
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: if it was five years ago or so. We came

810
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 1: to the realization that we've written a lot of books

811
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: for parents and educators, but we hadn't written anything for teens.

812
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: So we set about to write a book for young

813
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: people about cyber bullying.

814
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 4: And so we started writing.

815
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: This book and it was really depressing, right because it

816
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: was talking about all these really bad things.

817
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: So we'd have a chapter on.

818
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: What to do if you're targeted, what to do if

819
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: you're thinking about cyber bullying others or engaging these behaviors,

820
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: what to do if you see cyber bullying, and it

821
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: was all very helpful advice, but it was just kind

822
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: of depressing. And then it's sort of I had just

823
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: seen a couple of examples where young people were using

824
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: technology to promote positivity, and I thought, you know, the

825
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: cyber bullying is is bullying amplified by technology, And I thought,

826
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: why can't we amplify positivity, right, And I'd seen these

827
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: examples of kids in the US and abroad who are

828
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: using technology to promote positivity and kindness and creating social

829
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: media pages for the sole purpose of promoting kindness within

830
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: their school or saying nice things about their classmates, and

831
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: so that realization we shifted that whole book where it is.

832
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: The book is called basically Delete cyber Bullying and Make

833
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: Kindness Go Viral. So it's half about cyber bullying, but

834
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: then it's also how do we promote kindness and compassion

835
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: and caring. And there's lots of examples of this, and

836
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: so I think we can't lose sight of the fact

837
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: that most kids are using technology safely and responsibly and appropriately.

838
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 4: The more guidance we can give them, the better.

839
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: The reality is most kids who do experience bullying and

840
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: cyber bullying and come out of it okay, and especially

841
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: with some supports from adults in their lives. So I

842
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 1: think there's a lot to be optimistic about, even though

843
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: there are some very negative things online, but just the

844
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: examples of teens themselves taking a leadership role in mentoring

845
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: young people younger people, or you know, creating some kindness

846
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: campaign or creating an app to help you wipe.

847
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 4: Away some of these things. It's just it's it's pretty inspiring.

848
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: What's your favorite one?

849
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: I have a soft spot in my in my heart.

850
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: This is something that is a Twitter feed that was

851
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: created many years ago called ossio Nice Things, and there's

852
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 1: been many examples since then. But this guy, this young

853
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: man named Kevin Kirwick, he was I think a junior,

854
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: a senior, year eleven, a year twelve, and he just

855
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: saw all the negativity online. So he created a Twitter

856
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: feed where he just posts nice things about all his

857
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: classmates and celebrities would retweet his stuff and it was,

858
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, it didn't have a ton of followers, but

859
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: just a simple thing. Connress s Wave. Another kid, this

860
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: is a validictorian at this high school. For a whole year,

861
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: he created an Instagram page where he anonymously posted pictures

862
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: of his classmates. It was a pretty big school and

863
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: every day he would post a picture and then something

864
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: nice about that person.

865
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 4: And sometimes this is a big school.

866
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes he didn't know these kids very well, but he

867
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: found something nice to say about them. He did this

868
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: the whole year long, completely anonymously. He was valictorian. He's

869
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: given a speech a graduation and he came clean about

870
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: this project and said, look, I did this to try

871
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: to make people feel good. At least on one day

872
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: but it really changed me in terms of how I.

873
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 4: Look at people and I look at people differently.

874
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: And so just those are just a couple of examples

875
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: off the top of my head that are very inspiring.

876
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.

877
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: It's given me the whole goosebumps and wet eyes kind

878
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 3: of thing. That's beautiful. All right, last question before we

879
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 3: do al famous five. How do you protect your son?

880
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: Well, I have conversations with him. He's my guinea pig. Right,

881
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: So he's ten years old and I probably five years ago.

882
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with him before bedtime and

883
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: I had to travel somewhere the next day to give

884
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,959
Speaker 1: a talk on cyber bullying, and so I was putting

885
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: him to bed and I said, you know, I'm not

886
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: going to be here in the morning because I'm going

887
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: to be traveling to whatever city it was. And he said,

888
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: what are you gonna be doing. I'm gonna give me

889
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: a talk and he said about cyber bullying, and I said, yeah,

890
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: that's right. I said, do you even know what cyber

891
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: bullying is? And he said, yeah, it's bullying using a computer.

892
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: And I said, that's that's pretty right, you know, And

893
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: as a five year old or whatever he was back then,

894
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: and I said.

895
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 4: Are you ever going to cyber bully anybody?

896
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: And he says no, And I said, well why not

897
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: and he said, well, you're because you're the guy that

898
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: goes into schools and tells kids not to do it. So,

899
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: you know, for years I've been having conversations with him

900
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: and he's he's kind of, I think, a little behind

901
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: the curve on his technology usage than a lot of

902
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: his peers. So he doesn't have a cell phone yet.

903
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: He'll be in year five next year. Some of his

904
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: classmates do have their own smartphones. He's not on any

905
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: social media app app.

906
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 4: He does have his.

907
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: Mother's old iPhone from about five years ago that has

908
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: Wi Fi, but it doesn't have a cellular network, so.

909
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 4: He can use it in the house.

910
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: And what he uses it for is he'll google some

911
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: insects and creatures and amphibians and stuff running around the yard.

912
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: And he likes looking at the weather, so he likes

913
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: to tell me what the weather is going to be

914
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: like on any given day. But literally just about every day,

915
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: I'll have a conversation with him about his online use

916
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: and if he runs into trouble, and you know, He's

917
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,959
Speaker 1: very shy, and so even if he seees kissing on TV,

918
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: he'll turn his eyes away. So I think I've got

919
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of time before I get into the

920
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: relationship stuff.

921
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 4: But it's a daily conversation for.

922
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 3: Him, and I love the fact that it's a daily conversation.

923
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 3: This is not something that you have the talk and

924
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: you put it away and say, all right, we've done that.

925
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: This is a this is an ongoing how we live

926
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 3: our life, all right, justin let's let's dive into these

927
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: five questions that I love to ask. Everyone gets the

928
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: same ones, and they're meant to be pretty quick.

929
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 2: We'll see how we go.

930
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 3: Number one, if we asked your son his favorite thing

931
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 3: to do with you, what would he say?

932
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: So that I cheated and I saw you listen, I

933
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: quickly asked him before logging on with you.

934
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 4: But he said exactly what I would have said. And

935
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 4: this has changed.

936
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: So this is something that stems from the sort of

937
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 1: quarantine of the pandemic. So, as you know, I'm a runner,

938
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: and so I try to run every other day.

939
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,479
Speaker 4: I don't run every day, but I run every other day.

940
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: And since mid March, since he's been out of school,

941
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: he has ridden his bike with me as I've been running,

942
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: and so I'll run anywhere from five to twelve miles

943
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: and he'll ride his little bike with me. And it's

944
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: been incredible. We've been having long conversations. Most of the

945
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: time we're just doing storytelling, so he'll we'll make up

946
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: some fictional story right now, the current stories. We're on

947
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: a different planet and we have to survive and there's creatures,

948
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: and so that would be the one thing that he

949
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: loves doing with me, apart from just adventures out in

950
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: the wilderness. But it's been really a blast over the

951
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: last couple of months, just spending more time with him.

952
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 2: What's been your trickiest parenting moment.

953
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: I think the hardest thing to deal with with our

954
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: son is he's harder on himself than we are on him.

955
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: So if he makes a mistake or if he does

956
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 1: something he knows is wrong, he's really hard on himself.

957
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 4: And he'll be upset.

958
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: He'll lock himself in his bedroom, not literally, but he'll

959
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: just he'll just want to be away, and we're like, look,

960
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: it was a mistake. It was fine, you know. And

961
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: when we gave him a knife for his boy Scouts,

962
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: like the first time he's using his knife, he cut

963
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: himself right, there's blood everywhere and he's crying. I'll never

964
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: use a knife again. And I, you know, just way

965
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: over that, it's like, look, mistakes happened. So I think

966
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: the hardest thing for me is balancing him being harder

967
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: on himself than us being on him. And that's really

968
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: hard to figure out.

969
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

970
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 3: Great, if you could spend an hour with your son

971
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 3: at any age at all, what age would you pick

972
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 3: and why?

973
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: Well, this is probably a cop out, but I would

974
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: pick right now. I honestly would. And part of it

975
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: is he's ten. I mean maybe when he's sixteen or eighteen,

976
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: it'll be different. But he's really fun to be around

977
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: right now. He's starting to think more deeply. He loves

978
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: he's very inquisitive. He loves creatures, animals, and you know,

979
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to go back to the you know,

980
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: the diaper days and the early days of no sleep

981
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: when he was a baby, but these are really good days.

982
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 4: I would take an hour with him right now, all

983
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 4: day long, no.

984
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: Matter how good life has been, justin and how glad

985
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 3: you are to be in the moment right now, what

986
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: are you most looking forward to as a dad.

987
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to seeing my son evolve and doing

988
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: more fun things with him as he becomes more independent.

989
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm nervous about the future, of course, but

990
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 1: I think that every year has been better than the last,

991
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: and so I'm really excited for seeing his independence and

992
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: his growth and his learning and seeing him interact with others,

993
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: and so maybe moving beyond sort of us as parents

994
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: and finding his peer group and doing fun things with them.

995
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 3: If you could go back to Justin Patchen as a

996
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 3: young dad having one of those tough moments with literally

997
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 3: no experience at this parenting thing at all, what advice

998
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 3: would you give yourself.

999
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: I think I would tell myself that not to get

1000
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: too worked up about it. And it's it's you know,

1001
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: when I look back on the kind of challenges I've faced,

1002
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: they're probably I've been really lucky and blessed and fortunate

1003
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: because I.

1004
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,959
Speaker 4: Haven't been to the emergency room with my son yet.

1005
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 4: You know, I haven't.

1006
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: There hasn't been any really serious problems. There's been challenges,

1007
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: of course, but I think I would tell myself, chill out, it's.

1008
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 4: No big deal.

1009
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: You're going to get through this, and I hope I

1010
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: can tell myself that in a couple of years in

1011
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: the future when other things happen.

1012
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 3: Well, Justin I've just thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I wish

1013
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 3: we could keep on talking. If people want to find

1014
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 3: out more about you and the work that you do

1015
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 3: and how to keep their children safe online, what's the

1016
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 3: best thing that they can do well.

1017
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: Our website is Cyberbullying dot org, and that's where we've

1018
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: got all this stuff about cyberbullying, sexting, social media. You can,

1019
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, look more about me kind of professionally and

1020
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: personally at Justinpatchen dot com, but cyberly is definitely.

1021
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 4: Where it's at.

1022
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: We have a blog where we comment on things, usually

1023
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,959
Speaker 1: about every other week or so, so a lot of

1024
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: free information for you to figure out how to navigate

1025
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: all these online challenges.

1026
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 3: Justin Patchen, it has just been a great conversation. Thank

1027
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 3: you so much for your time and sharing your insights

1028
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 3: and wisdom and experiences with us.

1029
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 4: I appreciate the opportunity. This is a great conversation.

1030
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 3: We've discussed some really confronting but important topics on the

1031
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 3: podcast today, and I hope that you'll be able to

1032
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 3: take some of doctor Justin Patchin's insight and put it

1033
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 3: into practice with your own children. And you can also

1034
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,919
Speaker 3: find all of doctor Justin Patchen's books available at Cyberbullying

1035
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 3: dot org.

1036
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 2: Well, thank you again for being part of the Parenting

1037
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 2: in Perspective podcast.

1038
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 3: I'd love for you to join me doctor Justin Coulson

1039
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 3: next time as I talk with the award winning children's

1040
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: author mem Fox about her experiences growing up, her parenting journey,

1041
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 3: and of course her work writing some of our children's

1042
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 3: favorite books.

1043
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 5: The books comes from my they don't really come from

1044
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 5: my brain. If they were coming from my brain, I

1045
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 5: would probably say, yes, I want to get this lesson out.

1046
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 5: But it's because I think because of my love of

1047
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 5: humanity and I just want warmth them in the world.

1048
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 4: I just want kindness.

1049
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: That's author Mem Fox. She's my next guest on the

1050
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: Parenting in Perspective podcast. If you've enjoyed the podcast, could

1051
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 3: I ask one thing before we run? Could you jump

1052
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 3: into Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and a review

1053
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,959
Speaker 3: of the podcast. This is how people get to find

1054
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 3: the podcast. They get to hear all these great conversations

1055
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 3: and change their lives, change their families. I've got a

1056
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 3: review that came through just in the last week or

1057
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 3: two from Size account. The title of the review is

1058
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 3: life changing. It's a five star review. Thank you so

1059
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 3: much for that. Here's what it says. Since doctor Justin

1060
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 3: Colson has entered our parenting life, things have changed for

1061
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 3: the positive in a big way.

1062
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 2: The podcasts may.

1063
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 3: Be short, sweet, and at times hilarious, but wow, they're

1064
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 3: powerful and have had a huge impact on how my

1065
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 3: husband and my parent our four children. Thank you, doctor Colson,

1066
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 3: your advice has made such a positive difference to our

1067
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 3: family life. From Merrilees and that's a five star review.

1068
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 3: It's those five star reviews. I don't need to know

1069
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 3: about the word on two star reviews, please don't leave them.

1070
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: If you're not happy with the podcast, just don't listen

1071
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: to it anymore. But if you if you're enjoying.

1072
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 3: The podcast, please leave those five star reviews and help

1073
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 3: us to get the word out. Maybe share the podcast

1074
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 3: with your friends in your parenting groups, around your school community,

1075
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 3: whatever it might.

1076
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 4: Be.

1077
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: So very grateful for that.

1078
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 3: Additionally, if you'd like more information about how you can

1079
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 3: get up close and personal with me and how I

1080
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: can really be that parenting.

1081
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 2: Expert in your pocket.

1082
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 3: We have Happy Families memberships available on a month to

1083
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1084
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1085
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1086
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1087
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 3: happyfamilies dot com dot au. Okay, well that is really

1088
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: everything for the podcast.

1089
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to the Parenting in

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Speaker 3: Perspective podcast, a Happy Families podcast from Happy Families dot

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Speaker 3: com dot Au. And a very quick thanks to Justin

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Speaker 3: Rulan for making the podcast sound great