Speaker 1: This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.
Speaker 2: Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1: I'm Laura, I'm Brittany.
Speaker 2: Now, as you all, i'm sure are very aware, there
Speaker 2: is an important federal election coming up on May the third,
Speaker 2: and you might have also noticed that when it comes
Speaker 2: to politics, it can be particularly tricky to navigate these
Speaker 2: conversations with the people that you love in your life,
Speaker 2: especially when they sit on opposite sides of the fence. Today,
Speaker 2: we are joined by Zara Seidler, who is the co
Speaker 2: founder of The Daily Oz. But Zara has experience in
Speaker 2: the political world and also has a degree in political science,
Speaker 2: International and Global studies, majoring in government.
Speaker 1: If we want to get very specific.
Speaker 2: With things, very specific, very specific, okay, we wanted to
Speaker 2: dive into how pop culture has become increasingly political, especially
Speaker 2: I mean we saw it first in the US and
Speaker 2: that has really migrated into how we are navigating this
Speaker 2: election currently, why the divide in the left and the
Speaker 2: right feels very extreme at the moment, and perhaps most importantly,
Speaker 2: how do we have these conversations with people that we
Speaker 2: love who have alternate views to us.
Speaker 3: Zarah, Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, girls,
Speaker 3: time coming. I know, I'm really stoked to be here.
Speaker 3: Just a small topic to talk about in my first podcast.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like yea, but where does your I mean we
Speaker 4: were just speaking off Mike before this started, just about
Speaker 4: how and where you started. You studied overseas in the US,
Speaker 4: you studied in Georgetown. Where did your obsession come for politics?
Speaker 4: Was it always something like through high school? Because it's
Speaker 4: such I mean, it's so niche what you have studied,
Speaker 4: So talk to us about how you ended up in
Speaker 4: this industry.
Speaker 3: I have always been interested in the news. I was
Speaker 3: just like, kind of that really nosy. I think it's
Speaker 3: actually just nosiness. I want to know everything all the time,
Speaker 3: and so my family always tells me that when I
Speaker 3: was younger, I would come downstairs in my family home
Speaker 3: and just announce news to them. I wanted to be
Speaker 3: the one that told them what had happened. I distinctly
Speaker 3: remember when Michael Jackson died. I came down I was like, guys,
Speaker 3: you won't believe it. He's dead, and everyone's like, good morning, Zarah,
Speaker 3: it's a pleasure to see you this morning.
Speaker 1: It's so funny you say that I was the same child.
Speaker 4: My favorite thing to do every morning as a teenager,
Speaker 4: I was read the news and coming to my family
Speaker 4: at breakfast.
Speaker 3: But I think, like, that's why you're a communicator now.
Speaker 3: I do think that there is a really clear tie
Speaker 3: between people who like to consume media and those who
Speaker 3: go into it. And so, yeah, I studied at Georgetown
Speaker 3: on exchange. It was when Donald Trump was first inaugurated
Speaker 3: into the presidency, and it was probably the first time
Speaker 3: that I.
Speaker 1: Saw politics really all around me.
Speaker 3: You know, you got into a cab and cab driver
Speaker 3: was talking about it, You went to a cafe and
Speaker 3: the barister was talking about it, and then I came
Speaker 3: home and that wasn't the case. No one was talking
Speaker 3: about politics. And I just really really cared. I really
Speaker 3: wanted my friends to care. I wanted to talk about
Speaker 3: it with them. So Sam, my best friend and now
Speaker 3: co founder, and I we started the Daily OS honestly
Speaker 3: just as a side hustle to be to talk to
Speaker 3: our friends about the news.
Speaker 1: It was selfish.
Speaker 3: I was like, I want them to care as much
Speaker 3: as I do. We'll start this thing, and a couple
Speaker 3: of years later, here we are. But also I think
Speaker 3: it wasn't just around like get your friends to care.
Speaker 3: It was also the accessibility of it.
Speaker 2: Bringing the news to social media in a way that
Speaker 2: was impartial was something that was ahead of its time
Speaker 2: because there was news on social media and people were
Speaker 2: consuming it that way. But so much of it was
Speaker 2: just so deeply trenched in biases by people who didn't
Speaker 2: necessarily have the skill set to be giving.
Speaker 1: The news out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so much of it goes to the
Speaker 3: fact that my friends at that time did care. They
Speaker 3: just didn't know where to get their information. Yea, and
Speaker 3: the legacy media. It wasn't speaking their language. It wasn't
Speaker 3: speaking directly to them, It wasn't using language they understood,
Speaker 3: it wasn't explaining things.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is though?
Speaker 4: Why do you think the disparity is so large between
Speaker 4: the way that it's spoken about and the obsession and
Speaker 4: interest in the US than it is here in Australia.
Speaker 4: Because even when I think growing up wasn't something my
Speaker 4: family spoke a lot about, wasn't something you read on
Speaker 4: the news, was something anyone.
Speaker 1: Was talking about.
Speaker 4: It was just like, oh, this is who's in charge now.
Speaker 4: No one the number of people that would go and
Speaker 4: vote that had no idea who they were voting for,
Speaker 4: what they were voting for. If you asked them when
Speaker 4: they walked out, that's say, oh, I just picked a number,
Speaker 4: Why do you reckon? We just never had that obsession.
Speaker 3: I think we have mandatory voting here and the US doesn't,
Speaker 3: and I think that makes a really big difference. In
Speaker 3: the US, you have to convince people to care enough
Speaker 3: to go and vote. Here, you just have to convince
Speaker 3: people to pay attention as like a starting point, and
Speaker 3: so I think that there is a smaller leap that
Speaker 3: has to be done, and so it isn't spoken about
Speaker 3: as much. And also because we have mandatory voting, our
Speaker 3: parties tend to be more around the center because it's
Speaker 3: not on that fringe as much.
Speaker 2: I think it really depends on the household you grew
Speaker 2: up in, because I feel like my household was pretty
Speaker 2: conversation around politics. But growing up I really understood the
Speaker 2: divide between labor and liberal and that's because my grandfather
Speaker 2: and my paper he worked in the coal mines, he
Speaker 2: worked in steel mines, so we were a labor voting family.
Speaker 2: And I think going back forty years ago, there was
Speaker 2: such a division between what the party stood for and
Speaker 2: now it seems as though things are far more moved
Speaker 2: towards the middle. And I guess like another big question
Speaker 2: around it. Do you think that young people are showing
Speaker 2: more of an interest or do you think it's just
Speaker 2: more accessible now with social media?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'll take your second question first. I
Speaker 3: do think that we are just hearing about it more
Speaker 3: and it's more accessible now. I don't think that young
Speaker 3: people caring about politics is new. You know, if you
Speaker 3: look back decades, you see young people out in the
Speaker 3: streets protesting wars and protesting governments.
Speaker 1: That's not new.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I was talking to my mother in
Speaker 2: law about this and talking about how there's just this
Speaker 2: fierce interest on social media and she was like, Laura,
Speaker 2: I was protesting for women's rights when I was at
Speaker 2: university in the seventies. She's like, it makes me annoy
Speaker 2: that you think it's different now, And I was like,
Speaker 2: I really don't, but I think we forget what our
Speaker 2: past generations did as university students.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not new.
Speaker 3: Young people have always been highly highly political. I think
Speaker 3: it's just amplified now because of social media and we
Speaker 3: can see it and people can post something and that
Speaker 3: looks like they are taking a political stand on something.
Speaker 3: Whereas before you had to physically go out, go and protest,
Speaker 3: go call your local representative, whatever it was. It's a
Speaker 3: lot more accessible now to I guess, engage with politics
Speaker 3: than it ever has been before. And to your first
Speaker 3: question about whether we're seeing the parties kind of go
Speaker 3: closer to the middle, what we are seeing is that
Speaker 3: there is an increase in the number of voters turning
Speaker 3: to minor parties and to independence, so those people that
Speaker 3: are kind of sitting outside of the major parties. And
Speaker 3: so while there is certainly this move towards the major
Speaker 3: parties getting closer and closer together, we see Peter Dudd
Speaker 3: and Anthony Albanezi kind of commit to whatever the other
Speaker 3: is doing. We do see, for example, the rise of
Speaker 3: the Greens or the rise of independence, and so there
Speaker 3: is this very full spectrum. The votes are kind of
Speaker 3: just going in different ways than they traditionally would have.
Speaker 3: But I do think that it's all cyclical. Nothing in
Speaker 3: politics is new. It happens as a cycle, and we
Speaker 3: kind of swing one way and then swing the other way.
Speaker 4: We were also talking earlier before about with the daily os.
Speaker 4: You get a lot of responses regarding politics, a lot
Speaker 4: of people asking questions, a lot of people spitting their
Speaker 4: opinions at you guys, and we're sort of having a
Speaker 4: conversation about whether we think our generation fully understands the
Speaker 4: situation or if they are pretending to understand because they
Speaker 4: don't want to admit they don't understand, and that they
Speaker 4: are just spitting back information that they have heard from
Speaker 4: other sources, just regurgitating. And I think it's really interesting
Speaker 4: because I don't think there's anything to be embarrassed about.
Speaker 4: If there are people listening right now that don't completely
Speaker 4: understand what they're voting for and why, that don't understand
Speaker 4: how the political system works, that's nothing to be embarrassed about.
Speaker 4: But that's why we do want to do these podcasts.
Speaker 4: If you didn't grow up in a family like that,
Speaker 4: or you don't have a huge interest in it and
Speaker 4: you're not studying it, it's okay to not understand. You've
Speaker 4: got to start somewhere, But you have to start somewhere.
Speaker 4: So let's just start with the basics. The election is
Speaker 4: coming up on May three, What does that mean for
Speaker 4: the next three years? What are people actually voting for
Speaker 4: and what are the fundamentals we should be understanding.
Speaker 1: Before we go to vote.
Speaker 3: I love this question because I mean I wrote a
Speaker 3: book called No Silly Questions right behind you, actually just
Speaker 3: behind me, for that very reason, because we don't want
Speaker 3: people to feel embarrassed about asking questions. A lot of
Speaker 3: the time, no one's ever been taught this stuff at school.
Speaker 3: We know that civics literacy isn't taught at the standard
Speaker 3: that it should be. And as you said, if you
Speaker 3: don't grow up with it at home, where are you
Speaker 3: meant to learn this? And so I do think it's
Speaker 3: really important to just strip it back to the basics,
Speaker 3: just fully understand what it is that you are engaging with.
Speaker 3: So let's start at the beginning. So May three, we
Speaker 3: have a federal election. That means that we are electing
Speaker 3: who will form the federal government. So we have local,
Speaker 3: state and federal. This is the big dog, so all
Speaker 3: of Australia, not New South Wales, not Victoria, etc. When
Speaker 3: you go into the ballot you will see that there
Speaker 3: are two sheets of paper there for you. So we
Speaker 3: have a lower House and an upper house in our
Speaker 3: federal parliament. Lower House House of Reps Upper House Senate.
Speaker 3: So we'll just deal with the lower House first because
Speaker 3: that's kind of the one that will really impact two
Speaker 3: forms government. So unless you live in two electorates in
Speaker 3: the country, you are not going to see the names
Speaker 3: of Anthony Albanesi or Peter Dudden on that ballot sheet
Speaker 3: because you are electing who you want to send to
Speaker 3: the Lower House and that person is not going to
Speaker 3: be Anthony Albanzi or Peter Dudden unless you live in
Speaker 3: Graindler or you live in.
Speaker 1: Dixon, which are their electorates.
Speaker 3: So for example, if you live in the electorate of Wentworth,
Speaker 3: for example, you will see a sheet there that has
Speaker 3: the Liberal candidate, the Labor candidate, the Independent candidate, the
Speaker 3: Greens candidate.
Speaker 1: I won't keep going with all of these things.
Speaker 3: You get the idea and you have to number one
Speaker 3: and through however many candidates there are, you have to
Speaker 3: fill out every single box in Australia, that's how it works,
Speaker 3: and then that gets counted and whoever reaches the certain
Speaker 3: magic number. In the House of Representatives, we have one
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty seats and you have to reach a
Speaker 3: certain threshold as a party to form government. Right now,
Speaker 3: Labor has formed government because they have the majority of
Speaker 3: seats in the lower House. That makes Anthony Albanezi our
Speaker 3: current prime minister.
Speaker 1: That could all.
Speaker 3: Change when we head to the election and if the coalition,
Speaker 3: which is the Liberal Party and the Nationals Party, if
Speaker 3: they win enough seats to get to that magic number,
Speaker 3: then they become the governing party of Australia and Peter
Speaker 3: Dudden would instead become our prime minister. If we go
Speaker 3: to the Senate, that's the upper house. You don't form
Speaker 3: government in the upper house, but it does make it
Speaker 3: easier to pass legislation if you have a majority in
Speaker 3: the upper House and a majority in the lower house.
Speaker 2: It's really fascinating because I feel like a lot of
Speaker 2: people go in there with the understanding of being like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I want it to be alber Ezier, I want it
Speaker 2: to be dune In, but don't really understand what may happen.
Speaker 1: And preferences matter a lot with something like that.
Speaker 3: We have a system called preferential voting, So who you
Speaker 3: put as your number two matters a lot, as well
Speaker 3: as your number one and everything else.
Speaker 2: So what about in terms of voting for someone who
Speaker 2: is an independent or a smaller party voting for the
Speaker 2: Greens or voting for a Legraspender for example, if you're
Speaker 2: in my area, what does that then contribute to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we have in the lower House and in
Speaker 3: the upper House something that's called the cross bench. So
Speaker 3: we have a two party system, which means that the
Speaker 3: major parties Labor and the Coalition, because they sit together
Speaker 3: with the Nationals, they both physically, if you can imagine this,
Speaker 3: sit on both sides of the chamber. And then in
Speaker 3: the middle our parliament's very literal, we have something called
Speaker 3: a cross bench, and that is made up of the
Speaker 3: Independence and minor parties who don't fit into either of
Speaker 3: those major parties. So, for example, a legras Bender, she
Speaker 3: is currently a sitting MP. She represents Wentworth and she
Speaker 3: sits in the middle of Labor and the Coalition, and
Speaker 3: that means she doesn't have to vote with Labor, she
Speaker 3: doesn't have to vote with the Coalition. She can decide
Speaker 3: based on every piece of legislation that comes to her,
Speaker 3: what she wants to do, based on the electorate that
Speaker 3: she represents. And as I said earlier, we have seen
Speaker 3: a rise in especially young people voting for Independence and
Speaker 3: minor parties. The Greens are the biggest minor party, but
Speaker 3: there's lots of smaller one you know, Pauline Hanson's One Nation,
Speaker 3: for example, is a minor party that has been in
Speaker 3: Parliament for a very long time. She's been there since
Speaker 3: the nineties, and so you know, we've got to understand
Speaker 3: who makes up our parliament today.
Speaker 4: But it's also no wonder like if anyone just listened
Speaker 4: to that breakdown and you haven't ever been interested in politics,
Speaker 4: you've never spoken about it or thought about it. I
Speaker 4: understand why it's confusing.
Speaker 1: It's so confusing. It is a very confusing sense. It's
Speaker 1: not just like one and off you go.
Speaker 4: No, And I think there's a lot of people that
Speaker 4: don't also understand the importance of the preferential voting, like
Speaker 4: how important it is too label number two and three.
Speaker 4: Don't just be like I've done my number one. I'll
Speaker 4: fill the boxes so I don't get fine and I
Speaker 4: can get out of here.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: In a previous life, my job around election time was
Speaker 3: what was called a scrutineer, And a scrutineer literally watches
Speaker 3: the counting of the votes and you have to watch
Speaker 3: to make sure they're going in the right piles.
Speaker 1: Is that what you're doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is how bloody minute. The process is that
Speaker 3: we don't have computers doing this, we have humans doing this,
Speaker 3: and you physically, like if the lowest preference is out,
Speaker 3: you have to move them to the next part and
Speaker 3: then to the next part, and you have to watch
Speaker 3: that nobody is like putting it in the wrong pile
Speaker 3: or trying to.
Speaker 1: Influence a vote.
Speaker 3: And so I have seen through that process how important
Speaker 3: it is that you vote correctly because if you don't label,
Speaker 3: every box gets thrown out and it's a donkey vote
Speaker 3: and it doesn't count.
Speaker 2: What do you think are the biggest ticket items that
Speaker 2: are shaping this election coming up?
Speaker 3: Yes, such a good question I've done with the Daily
Speaker 3: I was a lot of research into this because in
Speaker 3: other elections it's been very clear there was one issue
Speaker 3: that young people cared about far and away the most,
Speaker 3: and that was climate change. It's not the case this election.
Speaker 3: Cost of living is by far the biggest issue that
Speaker 3: young people care about when it comes to who they
Speaker 3: are voting for at this election. And we did this
Speaker 3: whole bunch of polling and research and it was like
Speaker 3: cost of living and then there was kind of all
Speaker 3: of these adjacent issues, so things.
Speaker 1: Like housing, cost of groceries.
Speaker 3: And then like the sixth issue was climate change because
Speaker 3: young people can't afford right now to care about all
Speaker 3: the things that they know are urgent, because they can't
Speaker 3: even take care themselves at the moment.
Speaker 1: You can't put a roof over your head.
Speaker 4: How are you going to change the rest of.
Speaker 3: The world exactly, And it's a really challenging environment. We
Speaker 3: know that a cost of living crisis isn't unique to Australia.
Speaker 3: There's been high inflation all over the world, but we
Speaker 3: are really feeling it here and so young people as
Speaker 3: well as all generations. This isn't unique to young people.
Speaker 3: We are really, we know, going to vote on the
Speaker 3: hip pocket on cost of living.
Speaker 1: Is that a real radical change from the last election.
Speaker 2: And when you say that the number one was climate change,
Speaker 2: we were just in such a different economic state at
Speaker 2: that time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we really were. And you know we called it
Speaker 3: the climate change election. All of these teals, who are
Speaker 3: a bunch of independents who won seats off the Liberal
Speaker 3: Party were understood to have won because of their strong
Speaker 3: stance on climate change. And that's just not the case
Speaker 3: right now. Maybe it will return to that in the future.
Speaker 3: We know young people care about it. It's still urgent
Speaker 3: to them. They still think it's a really huge issue.
Speaker 3: They just can't afford to care in the way that
Speaker 3: they previously did.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean in terms of this is a very niche question.
Speaker 2: But in terms of the political parties and theations that
Speaker 2: have been had so far, I know that there's been
Speaker 2: a lot of chatter around like the big supermarket chains,
Speaker 2: price gouging and the insane profits that are being made
Speaker 2: across like you know, fast moving consumer goods. Is there
Speaker 2: big promises that are being made in this sort of realm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are across kind of the board.
Speaker 3: We know that at the last budget, which was a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago, that the government promised tax cuts
Speaker 3: for everyone. Every single taxpayer was going to get a
Speaker 3: tax cut that was supposed to help with the cost
Speaker 3: of living. The Liberal Party has their own housing policy.
Speaker 3: There are a bunch of different things, all of them
Speaker 3: intended to get more money into.
Speaker 1: The pockets of taxpayers across.
Speaker 3: The country, but they kind of differ a bit in
Speaker 3: how they intend to get there.
Speaker 4: I don't know if this is too much of a
Speaker 4: personal opinion. I know that you are unmiased, but who
Speaker 4: do you think or what party is really pushing or
Speaker 4: promising the most in terms of putting money back into
Speaker 4: the pockets of our citizens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I understand the question. I don't think
Speaker 3: I can answer that. It's I think it's a matter
Speaker 3: of perspective. Really, if you believe the government shouldn't play
Speaker 3: a big role in your life, and that they should
Speaker 3: let the economy run as it is, then you would
Speaker 3: naturally veer towards one side of politics. If you think
Speaker 3: the government needs to intervene a lot, they need to
Speaker 3: do a lot of welfare, they need to do all
Speaker 3: of these things, you would naturally turn the other way.
Speaker 3: So I think it's really a matter of perspective. People
Speaker 3: just need to go out and really and I know
Speaker 3: that we'll talk about this, but really go out and
Speaker 3: understand what all sides of politics are offering, because you
Speaker 3: don't need to be stridently one way. You can figure
Speaker 3: out what you resonate deeply with and then kind of
Speaker 3: vote accordingly.
Speaker 2: Well, this is the interesting question, though, because what we've
Speaker 2: seen that's so different this year, and you know, we
Speaker 2: touched on it at the beginning, But what we saw
Speaker 2: happen in the States is that there is this really
Speaker 2: interesting cross section that's happening between pop culture and politics
Speaker 2: in a way that it don't think it has been
Speaker 2: as accessible.
Speaker 1: Before one hundred percent. What are your.
Speaker 2: Thoughts on people accessing their information around politics purely from
Speaker 2: say TikTok or influencers or podcasts, like as someone that
Speaker 2: works in the news every day, what is your advice
Speaker 2: slash perspective on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the key word that you just said
Speaker 3: there is purely, because I think there is absolutely a
Speaker 3: space for influencers to be talking about politics, for podcasters
Speaker 3: to be talking about politics. I think the more people
Speaker 3: that are talking about it, the better. I think the
Speaker 3: problem that arises is if a person, whether they are
Speaker 3: young or old, is only getting information from one source,
Speaker 3: that is never good for you know, getting all the
Speaker 3: information that you need.
Speaker 1: And so I.
Speaker 3: Think it's really really important that if you are seeking
Speaker 3: out information on this election from your favorite podcaster or
Speaker 3: your favorite influencer or your favorite creator, you need to
Speaker 3: couple that with getting some of the kind of unbiased,
Speaker 3: foundational knowledge that you can get from certain news sources.
Speaker 4: Also having complete understanding that what you're listening to is
Speaker 4: opinion and not fact, because sometimes I think the two
Speaker 4: can really be conf used.
Speaker 3: They can, And I mean like when you look at
Speaker 3: a traditional newspaper, like I know a lot of people
Speaker 3: aren't necessarily going out to buy a newspaper, but there are, however,
Speaker 3: many pages, say twenty pages of the news, and then
Speaker 3: there are the opinion pages, and it says opinion at
Speaker 3: the top, and then it has a whole bunch of
Speaker 3: op eds and I mean separate conversation about whether or
Speaker 3: not that's a good thing, but they are clearly labeled
Speaker 3: as op eds. And right now we don't have the
Speaker 3: same kind of regulations or the same standards for content
Speaker 3: creators because.
Speaker 1: It is such a new space. You're right.
Speaker 3: The US election was this real turning point where we
Speaker 3: saw creators entering the political space meaningfully and engaging directly.
Speaker 3: And so I think there will be some time still
Speaker 3: while we try to catch up with how do we
Speaker 3: label things as opinions so that anyone that's listening can
Speaker 3: be like, that is this person's opinion. I respect their opinion,
Speaker 3: but I also know the foundation of facts that sit
Speaker 3: behind that opinion, and I think that's why TDA, for example,
Speaker 3: I believe I'll toot my own horse that it's so
Speaker 3: important what we do because we give you the foundation
Speaker 3: of facts so that you can listen to your favorite
Speaker 3: podcaster and be like, oh, I understand what they're saying here.
Speaker 1: But you need all of that together.
Speaker 3: You always need a diverse media diet, otherwise you are
Speaker 3: going to end up kind.
Speaker 1: Of deep into this echo chamber.
Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting because I deeply see the
Speaker 2: benefits on both sides. Like I think like a lot
Speaker 2: of people who obviously have very passionate views are educated
Speaker 2: in the space. Of course it comes with biases, but
Speaker 2: I think it is making it more accessible to people.
Speaker 1: But you hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 2: If that's the only people or the only way that
Speaker 2: you're receiving your information, you turn into an echo chamber
Speaker 2: of yourself, Like you're not even able to kind of
Speaker 2: understand what is fact or is biased opinion because there's
Speaker 2: nothing to compare it to.
Speaker 3: And I think, like, let's take this chat for example,
Speaker 3: your listeners weren't expecting when you started this that you
Speaker 3: would have this like deep political fact driven thing. We
Speaker 3: are here bringing a new perspective to your listener that
Speaker 3: they can then go out and listen to a bunch
Speaker 3: of things and that they have some knowledge that they
Speaker 3: can interact and they might not have gotten that information
Speaker 3: from anywhere else. So you're right, it's really important that
Speaker 3: we do have this nexus point. It's great, we just
Speaker 3: need more of it taken together. But I do think
Speaker 3: it also needs to be mentioned and highlighted the legacy media,
Speaker 3: so the newspapers, like they also have problems with bias.
Speaker 3: This isn't a new media problem. Like the reason that
Speaker 3: TDA exists is because there are problems in traditional news
Speaker 3: as well that people don't trust. We know that there's
Speaker 3: the lowest levels of trust in media for young people
Speaker 3: like in history, and so this is kind of all
Speaker 3: of media problem that we need to confront altogether.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting when you say that, because I mean,
Speaker 2: you can think of any news outlet and know that
Speaker 2: it either has like a right leaning political bias or
Speaker 2: a left leaning political bias, like you know, publications that
Speaker 2: we're meant to be going to for the news. It's
Speaker 2: tricky to say, oh, well, I won't get it from
Speaker 2: pop culture because that's clearly got a bias when literally
Speaker 2: it feels like across the board it's exist. I mean,
Speaker 2: my favorite thing to look at in our comments section
Speaker 2: is and this happened last week. We'll upload something and
Speaker 2: then someone in the comments will be like, this is
Speaker 2: being paid for by the Liberal Party. And then someone
Speaker 2: else will be like, no, this is being paid for
Speaker 2: by the Labor Party. They're left wing stooges.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, we're clearly doing a good job
Speaker 3: if you're both fighting about how left wing or right wing.
Speaker 1: We're not paid.
Speaker 4: If we can tell you also paid by anyone, We're.
Speaker 1: Just doing our jobs here.
Speaker 2: I think also the thing that can be tricky, especially
Speaker 2: now with Instagram. It's something that we've talked about before
Speaker 2: and TikTok as well, is that engagement is based on
Speaker 2: outrage culture. So like the angrier that you can be
Speaker 2: about something, the longer it's going to keep someone on
Speaker 2: the platform for. And you know, outrage culture is such
Speaker 2: a hugely beneficial tool for growing your own social media
Speaker 2: and there's a personal gain that is also connected to
Speaker 2: a monetary gain, but it's you know, it's a side step,
Speaker 2: but it definitely builds the beast.
Speaker 3: But I mean, if you just take my business, for example,
Speaker 3: we don't do opinion ever. We only do facts, and
Speaker 3: if we did opinion, our business would probably be triple
Speaker 3: the size that it is today. Because you're right, like
Speaker 3: the algorithm feeds on outrage, people stay longer, people comment more.
Speaker 3: You would probably bring more eyeballs, which means we could
Speaker 3: sell more ads. But there has to be some value
Speaker 3: always in just giving the facts. And it's really hard
Speaker 3: when you know that your business could flourish, you know,
Speaker 3: ten times more if you did one thing.
Speaker 4: How do you think we navigate I feel like the
Speaker 4: world the last two to three years has been in
Speaker 4: the most divisive time it has ever been, with US politics,
Speaker 4: Australian politics.
Speaker 1: Multiple wars.
Speaker 4: How do you think we navigate these conversations with our
Speaker 4: families and friends when you do have different political opinions.
Speaker 3: I think this is a really important question because ultimately
Speaker 3: it does come down to values, because often our values
Speaker 3: inform how we see the world and what we think
Speaker 3: is right or wrong. But in saying that, I do
Speaker 3: think that it is so important to be empathetic and
Speaker 3: to really understand where the person sitting across from you
Speaker 3: is coming from. No one creates these ideas in a
Speaker 3: vac It's often informed by life decisions and life circumstances,
Speaker 3: generational traumas.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent.
Speaker 3: There are all of these things that happen in someone's
Speaker 3: life to lead them to see the world in a
Speaker 3: certain way. And so, you know, one of the things
Speaker 3: that we say is so important for TDA is to
Speaker 3: talk across and not down to our audience. And I
Speaker 3: do think the same is true when it comes to
Speaker 3: this speaking across from your friend and not down to them,
Speaker 3: not saying I'm better than you or you're wrong, I'm right.
Speaker 1: I can't believe you think that. How can you not
Speaker 1: see like.
Speaker 3: All of these terms like finding a middle ground, there
Speaker 3: is always going to be more middle ground than you expect,
Speaker 3: and it's really on the fringes that these views really
Speaker 3: start to diverge.
Speaker 1: From one another.
Speaker 3: So I think just establishing what are the facts that
Speaker 3: we agree on and sitting down and just having a
Speaker 3: really I know that it can be I know this
Speaker 3: is so much easier said than done. But having an
Speaker 3: agreed set of facts of we both agree that we
Speaker 3: want this for the world or we want this for
Speaker 3: our families, and then understanding that they might want to
Speaker 3: get there a bit differently, and just accepting that you
Speaker 3: can have different beliefs and that that's actually okay too.
Speaker 3: But I think the moment we shut people out, we
Speaker 3: know that that pushes them further to the fringe. They'll
Speaker 3: become more extreme if they don't have people to be
Speaker 3: talking to. And I think sharing your opinion and sharing
Speaker 3: your life experience and why you've come to this, like
Speaker 3: Laura talking about why her family had voted a certain
Speaker 3: way traditionally, like that's really important.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: We had a really interesting conversation a while back, and
Speaker 2: I remember the backlash I got from it because I
Speaker 2: was like, I would love to be able to retaliate.
Speaker 1: But sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.
Speaker 2: I was talking about it, so I'll do it now,
Speaker 2: no months, it's been years, because it's very relatable.
Speaker 1: We were talking about.
Speaker 2: It was an asking cut question, and it was in
Speaker 2: relation to the person talking about their grandparents having views
Speaker 2: that were just not congruent with what was happening one
Speaker 2: in the world today and to just like very outdated
Speaker 2: and problematic views. And I was relating it to mike
Speaker 2: grandparents they've both passed away now, and I was like, look,
Speaker 2: my grandfather was an Italian immigrant who was bullied for
Speaker 2: being a quote unquote wog, who denounced being Italian because
Speaker 2: he was so ashamed because he just wanted to fit
Speaker 2: in Australia. So he also had a very skewed view
Speaker 2: on what it meant to be an immigrant here, and
Speaker 2: he thought it meant denouncing your heritage and being an Aussie,
Speaker 2: and so there were things that he thought that were
Speaker 2: problematic and didn't align with my views. He was an
Speaker 2: incredibly loving grandfather who was like a dad to me,
Speaker 2: and I wasn't going to stop loving him because of
Speaker 2: those views. I understood where they came from, and I
Speaker 2: did my best to tell him when he was wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but the feedback to that, it was almost as though
Speaker 2: there was this expectation that I would cut my granddad
Speaker 2: out of my life. I'm like, guys, he's ninety four,
Speaker 2: He's never going to change his fucking mind, and.
Speaker 1: What God is about to die?
Speaker 2: Well, literally, what benefit to my life is it going
Speaker 2: to be to not love him because I don't agree
Speaker 2: with him. I can agree with him and I can
Speaker 2: still love him greater disagree, And I know that that
Speaker 2: doesn't sit with a lot people and also it's a
Speaker 2: privileged ability to have. You know, it could be very
Speaker 2: different if you're I mean, for example, if you're gay
Speaker 2: and your parents don't believe in your rights or gay marriage, like,
Speaker 2: that's a very different.
Speaker 1: Hurdle to overcome.
Speaker 2: But we all have to choose the things that's the
Speaker 2: most important thing to us and where that person sits
Speaker 2: in relation to us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do that, you're right.
Speaker 3: I think distinguishing harmful situations and in situations where a
Speaker 3: person's perspective is harmful to your sense of self, to
Speaker 3: your sense of identity, I think that you're entirely right.
Speaker 3: That's a different kettle of fish. But you know, my
Speaker 3: grandparents are exactly the same. My grandparents are ninety five
Speaker 3: their Holocaust survivors who came out here with absolutely nothing,
Speaker 3: no money. They had watched all of their family be
Speaker 3: killed in front of their eyes. They came here with
Speaker 3: you know, no sense of identity. Their Jewish identity had
Speaker 3: been the reason that they had been persecuted. And so
Speaker 3: their view of the world and of Australia is so.
Speaker 1: Different to mine.
Speaker 3: And the privilege that I grew up with, with safety,
Speaker 3: with family, with money, all of these things that they
Speaker 3: never had. And so when I sit across the dinner
Speaker 3: table to my grandmother and she says things that are
Speaker 3: wildly incongruent with my set of beliefs about the world,
Speaker 3: I have to understand what's informed those views.
Speaker 2: One thing we do know about the algorithm, the way
Speaker 2: social media works, and we kind of touch on a
Speaker 2: little bit, but the idea of being in an echo
Speaker 2: chamber of your own belief systems, and this is something
Speaker 2: that came into effect quite a few years ago, but
Speaker 2: it was like, you're going to get fed more of
Speaker 2: what it is that you're engaging with. So if you're
Speaker 2: engaging with left leaning politics, you'll be fed left leaning politics.
Speaker 2: If you're engaging with right leaning you'll be fed right
Speaker 2: leaning And that in itself can make people think a
Speaker 2: certain way and also think that an outcome is going
Speaker 2: to be a certain thing. I think that we saw
Speaker 2: this quite a bit with the US election and people
Speaker 2: thinking Kamala had more of a chance than what she did. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think we also saw it with a yes vote
Speaker 2: in Australia. People were absolutely shocked by the landslide of
Speaker 2: it being a no vote because we were seeing so
Speaker 2: much of it in our own worlds on social media.
Speaker 2: How do you think we can break the cycle of
Speaker 2: that and be more literate in terms of what is
Speaker 2: actually happening versus war we perceive to be happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is so important because we were talking
Speaker 3: off Mike before, and I think anyone that was watching
Speaker 3: the polls or having conversations wasn't shocked by certain outcomes
Speaker 3: because the second New stepped outside that echo chamber and
Speaker 3: that we always talk about like the loud minorities, and
Speaker 3: those minorities are very loud, but there is a very
Speaker 3: kind of silent middle that is just out there not
Speaker 3: talking about their views, not doing that. I think the
Speaker 3: really really important thing, and I know I've said this before,
Speaker 3: is to diversify where you're getting your information from. And
Speaker 3: that means not only getting it from social media. I
Speaker 3: know that's really rich because I run a social first
Speaker 3: news service, but it's important. But I mean, like, we've
Speaker 3: got a podcast, we've got newsletters. We've seen newsletters be
Speaker 3: the biggest thing for us in terms of growth for
Speaker 3: our business, and there are different ways that you can
Speaker 3: find information outside of social media. So if you think
Speaker 3: about the last ten pieces of political content and what
Speaker 3: they were. If you think back and you're like, actually,
Speaker 3: I didn't hear a contrary opinion in ten of those
Speaker 3: pieces of content. They were all telling me that the
Speaker 3: coalition's amazing, or they were all telling me that Labour's amazing.
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good sign for you to
Speaker 3: go out and actively seek out information from elsewhere. Like
Speaker 3: when I wake up every morning, I read the news
Speaker 3: from across the political spectrum. And I know that that's
Speaker 3: unique because I work in news, but I will look
Speaker 3: at about ten sources veering from the like kind of
Speaker 3: far left outlets of the world to the far right
Speaker 3: outlets of the world, because it's really important to know
Speaker 3: what everyone is saying and how they're positioning information. It
Speaker 3: also means that when you're having those conversations with people
Speaker 3: that you might not agree with, you know what they're
Speaker 3: reading too and how they formed those views, because what
Speaker 3: you read really informs how you see things as well.
Speaker 3: And so I think really being active, especially around an
Speaker 3: election time, and being really poignant and saying I'm going
Speaker 3: to seek out information from this or that or this
Speaker 3: or that, and it just means you have a bit
Speaker 3: more of a holistic diet that isn't just passive, it's
Speaker 3: not just coming to you, as you said, based on
Speaker 3: the clicks that you've had.
Speaker 4: So, having said that, what do you think are some
Speaker 4: of the main resources or tools people can use to
Speaker 4: go and compare political parties or policies.
Speaker 3: There's a lot out there, and we're seeing so much
Speaker 3: innovation in this space. I mean, when it comes to
Speaker 3: specific election information, there are a bunch of tools. I've
Speaker 3: seen a really cool tool recently built by two young
Speaker 3: women that are doing amazing things. It's called build a
Speaker 3: ballot And basically, you give this I'm not going to
Speaker 3: pretend I understand the technology, but you give this piece
Speaker 3: of technology, you answer a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1: It asks you like what do you think about this? This?
Speaker 3: That? And then at the end, based on the views
Speaker 3: that you have described to this thing, it will literally
Speaker 3: build a ballot for you. So it will tell you,
Speaker 3: based on what you answered about what you think is important,
Speaker 3: here is what you should number on the ballot box
Speaker 3: one through seven. And so I think, you know, if
Speaker 3: you are not one of the more politically engaged people
Speaker 3: and you're finding that, you go to you know, the
Speaker 3: local school on election day on May third, and you're like,
Speaker 3: I don't know what I meant to number. A tool
Speaker 3: like that can be really helpful because it's matching your
Speaker 3: political beliefs too.
Speaker 1: For example, songs are not run by one of the
Speaker 1: parties secretly.
Speaker 2: But the thing I think that's interesting about this is
Speaker 2: like a lot of people might know the one two three,
Speaker 2: They might know the one two three four, well, the
Speaker 2: one two yeah, but they don't know the rest and
Speaker 2: the rest becomes a mish mash of Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like siety. Well, sometimes you just go for the name.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 4: It's like when you want to go buy a bottle
Speaker 4: of wine someone I don't know wine. You want you
Speaker 4: pick the label on the bottles?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then literally never resonated with something more.
Speaker 3: But a fun fact is that before the election, there
Speaker 3: is a lottery and all the candidates in a seat
Speaker 3: have their names put into it, like like think of
Speaker 3: it as like that lottery ball and their names are
Speaker 3: put in and it's spun around and then it comes
Speaker 3: out with the order of whose name is going to
Speaker 3: be where on the ballot. Because we know that that's
Speaker 3: important because so many people just put one next to
Speaker 3: the first name because they don't know anything else, which
Speaker 3: I understand, and so where the person's name is on
Speaker 3: the ballot is really important. And I just think a
Speaker 3: tool like build a ballot for example, or something like
Speaker 3: vote Compass. The ABC has for the longest time had
Speaker 3: something called vote Compass where you answer heaps the questions
Speaker 3: about things that you might not think are like overtly political,
Speaker 3: and then it tells you, based on what you answered,
Speaker 3: we think that you would be best suited to voting
Speaker 3: for X. And that is run by the public broadcaster.
Speaker 3: They have a charter where they have to be independent.
Speaker 3: They're not allowed to be biased, and I think tools
Speaker 3: like this are really great for just a starting point.
Speaker 3: You don't have to take it as gospel, but just
Speaker 3: a starting point. Zara, thank you so much for coming
Speaker 3: and being a part of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Honestly having me.
Speaker 2: I think so many people are genuinely interested but don't
Speaker 2: know where to get started and want to make sure
Speaker 2: that the voice that they have counts to something that
Speaker 2: feels important to them. But it is so so critical
Speaker 2: where you get your information from, how you digest that information,
Speaker 2: and daily OLS is a great place to start.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I want my hearting note to
Speaker 1: be there are no silly questions. If you feel like you.
Speaker 3: Want to know the answers to something, there is so
Speaker 3: much information available, always ask the questions.
Speaker 1: The chances are that someone else sitting next to you
Speaker 1: has exactly the same questions.
Speaker 3: So you know, having podcasts like this, you girls are
Speaker 3: killing it and thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Thanks