1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 2: Now, if you don't play with guns and you're a kid, 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: chances are you are going to play with swords or 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 2: with clubs. Kids pick up a stick and they start 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 2: shooting people with the stick. 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: and dad. 9 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 2: Gooday, this is doctor Justin Colslam here with my wife 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: and podcast partner and life partner, Kylie and mum to 11 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 2: our six kids. I'm the founder of Happy Families dot com. 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 2: Do you Yesterday we commemorated and remembered ANZAC Day and 13 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 2: those who have fought and those who serve to keep 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: our world and especially our country safe. It was a 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: wonderful weekend. I hope that you had a good weekend 16 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: enjoying your Anzac freedoms. We received a Facebook message, Kylie 17 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: that I think is a really interesting one as a 18 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: follow up to ANZAC data relates to guns and war play, 19 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: gunplay our children. Let me read the question to you. 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: It comes from Petra. She asks have you done a 21 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: podcast or do you have any information about gun and 22 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: weapon play. I'm an early childhood educator. I've had lots 23 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: of discussions with colleagues around this sort of play. Despite 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: trying redirections or play idea suggestions, it seems to always 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: resurface shortly after. What does the research show? What's the 26 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: general consensus in child psychology? Is gun play detrimental or 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: a normal part of imagination and development? And I thought, 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: what a great question to ask after we've just spent 29 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: the last weekend remembering war and the tragedy that it is, 30 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: and the way guns affect our lives in so many 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: harmful ways. 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 3: It never ceases to amaze me that, even after I 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: guess the enlightenment that we find ourselves in today's day 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 3: and age, that our children, regardless of how they're brought up, 35 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 3: are so driven by stereotypes. You know, boys, regardless of 36 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: what they see, often are just drawn to trucks and 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 3: guns and karate and all of those things. I find 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: it fascinating. 39 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: What I also find really interesting, along the lines of 40 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: the enlightenment concept that you mentioned, we know some people 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: who won't even let their children say the word gun. 42 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: Their kids wanted a NERF gun for their birthdays, and 43 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 2: the parents were they were a gaess they're like, no, 44 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: there is no such thing. We do not have guns. 45 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: It would be a better if they didn't exist in 46 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: the entire world. In Australia, since nineteen ninety six, with 47 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: the gun buyback and John Howard's decision to reduce access 48 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 2: to guns in this country in particular, we've got a 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: pretty good track record when it comes to minimizing gun violence. 50 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 2: When it still happens. There are still guns. There are people, 51 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 2: bad people who have guns. They tend to usually only 52 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: go after other bad people with guns. Fortunately, but we 53 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: certainly we're not going to get away from the reality 54 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: that there are guns in society, and there are guns 55 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: in movies. I came across some research while I was 56 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: thinking about what we would talk about today. Children, according 57 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: to some research, who view movies with gun violence more 58 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: interested in guns and violence than their peers who do 59 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: not have this exposure. So a recent experiment one hundred 60 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: and four kids their age between eight and twelve. They're 61 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: in pairs. One child in each pair watches a twenty 62 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: minute clip of a PG rated film that has guns. 63 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 2: The other sees the same film, but the scenes with 64 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: guns are edited out, and after they watched after they 65 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: watched the film. The kids went to a room. There 66 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: was a cabinet stocked with toys like there was legos, 67 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: nerf guns, games where they could play pretty much anything 68 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: they wanted, and one of the cabinet draws had a 69 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: real semi automatic nine milimeter handgun that had been modified 70 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: so that it couldn't fire because it was America. It's 71 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: not Australia. I know some people are having heart failure 72 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: right out. There was a gun in the room. It 73 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: was modified, it couldn't fire, but the kids could still 74 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 2: pull the trigger, and the gun had a censor. It 75 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: would count the number of times that the child pulled 76 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: the trigger. After twenty minutes of play in the room 77 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: without adult supervision and with the door closed, the fifty 78 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: two pairs of kids. Forty three pairs found the gun. 79 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 2: Fourteen pairs gave the gun to the research assistant and said, 80 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: look what I found. But in twenty two pairs, one 81 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: or both of the participants handled the gun. And compared 82 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: with those who saw the movie where the images of 83 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: guns were edited out, the kids who saw the gun 84 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: in the movie, they played with the real gun significantly 85 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: longer fifty three seconds versus eleven seconds, and those who 86 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 2: were exposed to the guns in the movie also pulled 87 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: the trigger more often nearly three times versus zero times 88 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: for the kids who didn't. And and by the way, 89 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 2: there was a gender difference. Boys pulled the trigger, no surprise, 90 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: more frequently than girls. There we go, so like, our 91 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: kids are going to see guns, they're going to be 92 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: exposed to the concept of guns. We had antact a 93 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: yesterday where there were gun salutes and imagery with gun 94 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: I mean, we know that this is a part of life. 95 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: And when you have families who are saying, we don't 96 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: even use the word, and you look at Petra's conversation 97 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 2: her question, I think that it's an interesting place for 98 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: us to discuss and spend some time working out the 99 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: best way forward for parents. 100 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: I've got a bunch of questions to ask you about this, 101 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: because this research is pretty interesting. 102 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: Yeah it is. 103 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 3: Is gunplay actually related to violence? 104 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: There is a little bit of research that says that 105 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 2: it is, but it's not particularly strong research, and we've 106 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: got scant evidence across the board when it comes to 107 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 2: kids and playing with guns. So let me preface this 108 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 2: by saying I'm not an advocate of guns or gunplay. 109 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: We don't have guns in our home. We had a 110 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: couple of NERF guns over the years, but we're not 111 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: gunplay people, and our kids aren't gun play kids. Mind you. 112 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 2: We've got six girls. 113 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: A couple of weekends ago, we actually walked through a 114 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: house that we were thinking we might buy, and I 115 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: opened up the storage cupboard underneath the staircase. You'd already made. 116 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 3: You made it halfway up the stairs, and I said, 117 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 3: come back and look at it. You have to come back 118 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: and look at this. Inside that cupboard wall to all 119 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: NERF guns. There was every size possible. 120 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon there was thirty NERF guns in there, 121 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: apparently more. We have three boys, if I remember correctly, 122 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 2: through and I was like, I'm buying it just for that. 123 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: We're not having NERF gun wars in our family and 124 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: in our home. But what the research seems to suggest 125 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: is that playing with guns if you're a child doesn't 126 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: necessarily predict anything in terms of violence. It does predict 127 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: interest in firearms, as we've seen from that previous study, 128 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: but the little bit of evidence suggests that it does 129 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: a lot. More evidence, although there's still not much of it, 130 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: suggests that it doesn't. And the other thing is if 131 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: you don't play with guns and you're a kid, chances 132 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: are you are going to play with swords, or with clubs, 133 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: or with knives or with something else like kids sticks sticks. Yeah, 134 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 2: I mean the kids pick up a stick and they 135 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: start shooting people with the stick. They get more. 136 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 3: What about a cyber what do you call those things? 137 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 2: A cyber What did you call it? 138 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 3: Cyber thing? 139 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: What is cer thing? Like a laser gun? 140 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 3: Y l what is it? 141 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 2: People can't see what you're doing with your hand right now? 142 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: Clothes got her two fingers extended in. 143 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 3: The Star Wars thing? What is it? 144 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: A light saber? 145 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 3: A lightsaber? 146 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: So children will do that. I know of one parent 147 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: who told me that their their son, because he wasn't 148 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: allowed to play with guns, he chewed his sandwich into 149 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: the shape of a gun so that you can run 150 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: around holding his sound. And I mean I remember one time, 151 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: lamp that one I was driving down the freeway with 152 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: a couple of kids in the car. We were doing 153 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: a church activity, and I had some of the boys 154 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: in the car and there's this kid sitting in the 155 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: back seat behind me, and as the cars would go 156 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: past on the other side of the road. No, he 157 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: was shooting through the gaps like jew and then a 158 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: j and then a car would go past in his 159 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: paws and then and then so we'd see how many 160 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: shootoo shoes he could do in between just with his 161 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: fingers like this is and we've got first person shooter 162 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: games like kids are going to play. You can ban 163 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: fortnight or you like, but the kids are gonna figure 164 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: out a way to play it at their friend's house 165 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: because they want to be playing it because everyone else 166 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: is doing it. What we're going to do in just 167 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: a sec is come back after the break and talk 168 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: about whether or not playing with guns predicts aggression in 169 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: children as opposed to actual violence, like do they become 170 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: more aggressive? And we're also going to talk about well 171 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: a handful of other things that I think any parent 172 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: who has children who play with guns or doesn't want 173 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: them to play with guns, is going to want to hear. 174 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: Just when you think you've got this parenting gig nailed, 175 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: your child hits some new milestone that leaves you figuratively 176 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: banging your head against the wall. You wonder, where's the 177 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: instruction manual your growth guide? Is that instruction manual? A 178 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: webinar outlining basic milestones so you know where your child's at, 179 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 2: where they're going, and what you can expect. Get insights, 180 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: reassurance and support from your growth Guide available online at 181 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au. 182 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 3: It's the Happy Famili's podcast, The podcast with a time 183 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers. Now I'm interested. Does 184 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: gun play remote anti social behavior? 185 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: There's no evidence that it does. What it promotes is 186 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 2: fantasy and role play. We know that there's a big 187 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: social learning component, but no antisocial behavior, aggression, that kind 188 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: of thing. If it does, what research would suggest is 189 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: that there are other things that predict that anti social behavior, 190 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: that aggressive behavior, that violent behavior, far more so family environment, media, 191 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: consumed corporal punishment. There's a whole range of other factors 192 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: that are going to predict much more than whether your 193 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 2: kids play with guns, whether they'll be aggressive or violent, 194 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: whether they're going to have interest in firearms and that 195 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: kind of thing, whether you let your kids play with 196 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: a nerf gun or not. Almost as zero like we really, 197 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: it's so so negligible. Based on what I can read 198 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: in the research that if your kids want to play 199 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: with a water pistol or a bubble gun, or a 200 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 2: nerf gun let them. That's the short version of this. 201 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so parents actually banned them or in this case, 202 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 3: you've got schools and childcare centers that are actually banning 203 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 3: the play of gun does Is there any negative impacts 204 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 3: to that? 205 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: Yeah? 206 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: And I think we need to acknowledge why this is happening. 207 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: So it's pretty horrible when you see your children pretending 208 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: to shoot each other and hearing them say I killed you. 209 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: You're dead like that. As a parent, now that we 210 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: understand mortality in ways that we didn't when we were 211 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: four or six or twelve, it's jarring and it's painful, 212 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: like it just feels horrible. I think that well, two things. 213 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 2: First of all, if you've banned them and you think 214 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: you've been successful, chances are you're just not turning around 215 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: fast enough to catch them because they're doing it. But 216 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: what you're going to find is if you ban it, 217 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 2: what you're probably going to do is your children will 218 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: become deceitful. They'll hide it. Don't you ever let me 219 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: catch you playing with guns. Don't worry, mum, you won't. 220 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: I'm going to be real sneaky from now on. That 221 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 2: kind of thing. You're going to induce shame. Your children 222 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 2: will feel really shameful for doing something that I'm not 223 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 2: going to say. It almost comes naturally, but they want 224 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: to do it, their friends are doing it, They've seen 225 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: it in the movies. It's a fun game. They really 226 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: don't understand death in the same way that we do, 227 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: and they don't understand war in the same way that 228 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: we do, and we can't expect them to, so it 229 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: might be unfair. And gunplays really about it's symbolic, right, 230 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: if I've got the gun, we can learn lessons about 231 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: control and power, we can learn lessons about authority, And 232 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 2: so I think that gunplay could instead, instead of having 233 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: it shamed and pushed away, we could use it to 234 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: have really interesting conversations with our kids about empathy and consideration. 235 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting you say that. As you were talking, 236 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 3: I was just thinking about all of the kinds of 237 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: conversations that open up as we talk to them about 238 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: how they felt when they shot their friend, and how 239 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 3: their friend felt when they were now no longer part 240 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: of the game because they were dead. And you know, 241 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: all of those kinds of conversations that you actually miss 242 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 3: out on having because you don't want you don't want 243 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 3: to go there at all. 244 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 245 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: I also think that banning guns, of banning gun play, 246 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: I should say, whether it's with sticks or with the 247 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: nerf gun or whatever, it's sexist, like it unfairly disadvantages 248 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 2: boys because boys are the ones who are significantly more 249 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: likely to want to play guns and experiment and explore 250 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: and role play and have fun with that kind of play. 251 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: Some people might think that I'm going too far with 252 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 2: this one, but I think that girls are less likely 253 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: to involve themselves in this kind of imaginary play. The 254 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: research shows. As stereotypical as this is, the research shows 255 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: the girl's much more likely to play with dolls and 256 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 2: the dolls don't shoot each other. 257 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: No, but I remember with all of our kids, one 258 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 3: of our favorite little I guess quirks and play time, 259 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 3: you know, was they'd give you the look and one 260 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 3: will die. Yes, that's right, and then mum would need 261 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 3: a kiss of life yep, and I'd be brought back 262 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: to life like they There is so much about that 263 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 3: cause and effect. 264 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fantasy element is really big. It's really important. 265 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 3: And while you know we're having this conversation when there 266 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 3: are countries around the world that are literally war torn 267 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: at the moment, and you can see how sensitive these 268 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: kinds of conversations can be for people who are actually 269 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 3: living this right now. The reality is when you understand 270 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: why children play, you understand that it's them making sense 271 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 3: of the world around them. When they see these things, 272 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 3: whether they you know, kind of see them with their 273 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 3: friends watching a movie or playing a video game, their 274 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: reenactment of it is helping them make sense of what 275 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 3: is happening, why it's happening, how do I feel about it, 276 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 3: processing the world as they see it, and it's such 277 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 3: a powerful way for them to work through it, and 278 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: you being open to having conversations with them as a 279 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 3: result of that is even more powerful. 280 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, beautifully said, let's wrap this up with a couple 281 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 2: of tips for how we can set boundaries around gun play, 282 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: because I'm going to argue, as a result of everything 283 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: we've talked about today that while most parents probably don't 284 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: want to encourage it and aren't thrilled about it, I 285 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: know some will be, but many parents aren't, and that 286 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: would include us. It's probably going to happen, and shaming 287 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: your kids around it and taking away that fantasy may 288 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: not be helpful. I think that there's a couple of 289 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: a couple of boundaries that we can set. The first 290 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: one is that kids need to understand that they're not 291 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: allowed to physically hurt each other, even if they're involved 292 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: in pretend play. There are safety risks. They're not allowed 293 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: to throw the gun at each other, they're not allowed 294 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: to hit people with guns. They need they need to 295 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 2: keep it fantasy. That would be the first boundary. The 296 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: second one is that somebody could lose an eye here, 297 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 2: so you're not allowed to shoot people anywhere near their heads. 298 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: Always shoot from the shoulders down. We don't want somebody 299 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: to cop an nerth bullet of one of those phone 300 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: bullets in the nose or mouth or eyes. It's just 301 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: not okay to shoot people there. And the third thing 302 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: is I think we just want to be mindful that 303 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: there are some red flags when it comes to gunplay. 304 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: Kids will often say, oh, I accidentally did it. But 305 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: if we see a recurring pattern of somebody accidentally and 306 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: consistently hurting others, or if we see really aggressive behavior, 307 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: or if we see particularly exploitative or manipulative behavior associated 308 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: with that gunplay, if there's a lack of empathy involved 309 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: in that gunplay. Then I think that it's worth having 310 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: a conversation with your child and making sure that we're 311 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: teaching them the things that matter most here and that 312 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: they're being sensible in what they're doing. 313 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 3: I think the conversation that we're really having is about 314 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 3: everybody being a participate and enjoying the process. 315 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: Right. 316 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 3: I think back to one of the episodes on Parental 317 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: Guidance last year with the water gun fight. It was brilliant. 318 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: Everybody was having fun. There was you know, laughter and excitement, 319 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 3: and there was no sense of violence portrayed. And I 320 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 3: think that if as parents sometimes we get so heavy 321 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: hearted about things, if we can find ways to channel, 322 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 3: specifically at this point, our boys who have a desire 323 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 3: to have this, you know, kind of this play, and 324 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: the girls who do Let's have a water fight, Let's 325 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: have a nerve gunfight, Let's just have some fun. 326 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rawan from 327 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd 328 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: like more info about making your family happier, you can 329 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 2: join us at Happy families dot com.