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Speaker 1: Now, as we spoke about towards the end of last week,

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Speaker 1: we know that consultations still open to have your say

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Speaker 1: regarding what needs to be done to protect the golden

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Speaker 1: snapper fishery, with golden stapper stocks in the Greater Darwin

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Speaker 1: region falling to critically low levels, that is according to

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Speaker 1: the government's Fisheries Department. Now the government has indeed opened

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Speaker 1: public consultation to help what they say is going to

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Speaker 1: shape practical, science based actions to rebuild stocks and protect

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Speaker 1: territory fishing for future generations. But there is indeed some

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Speaker 1: criticism the science being relied upon doesn't stack up, with

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Guided Fishing Industry Association questioning the public

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Speaker 1: survey believing the government is preparing for a widespread reef

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Speaker 1: fishing closure. Now joining us on the line is the

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Speaker 1: chair of the Guided Fishing Industry Association, Blaine Simmons. Good morning, Blaine,

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Speaker 1: Good morning, here are you. You're really good, lovely to

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Speaker 1: have you on the show. Now, Blaine, given the Fisheries

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Speaker 1: Department employees scientists to undertake the work of checking fishing stocks,

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Speaker 1: why do you say that the science doesn't stack up.

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Speaker 2: We've had some issues for a long time about the

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Speaker 2: level of data collection. The guide of fishing industry has

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Speaker 2: been pushing for about five or six years to improve

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Speaker 2: the quality of the data collection. There are some fundamental

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Speaker 2: things that simply don't get collected, and it's why they

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Speaker 2: acknowledge that the log book system is a bit of

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Speaker 2: a failure. We've been trying to get that change for

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Speaker 2: about five or six years because we anticipated we might

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Speaker 2: arrive at this position.

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Speaker 1: So Blain, does the sector believe that the fishery is

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Speaker 1: actually not in as bad as state as what the

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Speaker 1: department says.

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Speaker 2: I'd certainly say that anecdotally the sector believes that very strongly. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the volume of the volume of snapper around is quite significant.

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Speaker 2: But most importantly, what we're concerned about is the fact

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Speaker 2: that the data is exceptionally poor and there are conclusions

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Speaker 2: being drawn from that exceptionally poor data that are leading

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Speaker 2: us to this position. The industry's not necessarily interested in

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Speaker 2: a win at all costs. We just like to make

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Speaker 2: sure that if we're going to make these kinds of

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Speaker 2: incredibly significant decisions i'd call them, from a tourism industry

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Speaker 2: point of view, almost catastrophic decisions, we want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that the science is right, and the science is

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Speaker 2: absolutely not right.

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Speaker 1: So you said there that you know, it's exceptionally poor

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Speaker 1: and it's not right. Like the data that they're working off.

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Speaker 1: What are you worry they're going to do with that data, Blane?

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Speaker 1: Do you feel as so they're going to actually sort of,

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Speaker 1: you know, stop people from fishing in those reef areas altogether.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is going to happen?

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Speaker 2: No, I absolutely have no doubt that the intention is

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Speaker 2: to shut those reef areas to type, all types of refishing,

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Speaker 2: all species of refishing. This is not exclusively golden snapper.

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Speaker 2: This will be a complete lockout of refishing for a

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Speaker 2: period somewhere between five and nine months of the year.

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Speaker 2: It will decimate the guided fishing tourism ministry.

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Speaker 1: Plain to those of us that aren't big fishes like me,

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Speaker 1: you know what is what exactly is that going to me?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Spell it out for us.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've got somewhere about four hundred million dollars worth

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Speaker 2: of our economy that leverages off guided fishing tourism and

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Speaker 2: off recreational fishing. It simply means that families won't be

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Speaker 2: able to go and sit out in the harbor and

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Speaker 2: have a fish. It's a social thing, it's therapeutic. It's

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Speaker 2: good for all of us to have that down on

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Speaker 2: the water. That's not to say that we would we

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Speaker 2: would want our fish stocks to sacrifice, to be sacrificed.

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Speaker 2: Guided fishing has a significant interest ensuring fish stocks are

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Speaker 2: at excellent levels. But we cannot support this kind of

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Speaker 2: conclusions drawn from such scant and unreliable data.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like this, as you said there, you know,

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Speaker 1: for you guys, this could literally be catastrophic. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what would it mean for some of those operators that

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Speaker 1: you know are taking people out on the harbor for

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Speaker 1: a fish. But also, like you touched on families. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know my husband and my son are out on

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Speaker 1: the weekend doing exactly what you've just described.

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Speaker 2: All of that will come to an end, and we've

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Speaker 2: to look no further than the circus that has gone

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Speaker 2: on in Wa where now, of course, we have a

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Speaker 2: class action and number of other lawsuits about the quality

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Speaker 2: of their data. Simply because fisheries produce the data, we

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Speaker 2: don't necessarily need to assume that it's the gospel thealit.

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Speaker 2: The caliber of data has been widely acknowledged as being

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Speaker 2: exceptionally poor for some years. Now, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: we draw some intense conclusions from it because they believe

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Speaker 2: that there's a movement in a key indicator. That movement

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Speaker 2: is to be fair readily explained by some changes that

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Speaker 2: they made themselves.

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Speaker 1: Blame in terms of you know, the golden snapper stocks,

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Speaker 1: Like obviously, you know that issue has been discussed for

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Speaker 1: about ten years. Clearly it looks as though something does

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Speaker 1: need to be done to protect the fishery. What do

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Speaker 1: you think should be happening instead, Look.

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Speaker 2: I think we should probably consider the idea of some

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Speaker 2: cautionary moves. Clearly, we're talking about a major population center.

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Speaker 2: This experience where fish stocks are not at pristine levels

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Speaker 2: when they sit right on the shores of a major

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Speaker 2: population area is a universal problem. But make no mistake

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Speaker 2: these waters they're talking about, they're not the sole breeding

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Speaker 2: ground for golden snapper. Golden snapper are one of the

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Speaker 2: most prolific species we have on the Northern Territory coastline,

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Speaker 2: or four thousand, two hundred kilometers of it. We're concerned

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Speaker 2: about one hundred and fifty kilometers of it. This is

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Speaker 2: not the end of the world. If we were concerned

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Speaker 2: that this was the only breeding ground in the whole

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Speaker 2: of the territory, we would be devastated. We would be

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Speaker 2: leading the charge. But it is not, and the data

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Speaker 2: is very poor. We'd like to government to put some

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Speaker 2: money in and improve the quality of the data, improve

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Speaker 2: the quality of the information that we're being asked to provide.

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Speaker 2: We've been trying to provide additional information for five years.

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Speaker 2: Fisheries won't have it so blind.

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Speaker 1: Do you what does the department need more funding to

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Speaker 1: gather better and more comprehensive data or what exactly could

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Speaker 1: be done here to try and sort this out, because,

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Speaker 1: like to me, this sounds like it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a real worry if we end up with mass closures.

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Speaker 2: Well, they certainly headed towards mass closures. I would suggest

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Speaker 2: that we work very closely with fisheries. I would suggest

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Speaker 2: that they would probably be delighted in extra funding. But

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Speaker 2: Fisheries in recent years has been very dysfunctional. We've had

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Speaker 2: a colossal turnover of staff in the last six months alone.

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Speaker 2: We've had two caretaker directors and now we're suggesting that

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Speaker 2: we should we should make these kinds of characterismic decisions,

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Speaker 2: I might add, without any social or economic analysis whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: There is no regard for the implications of these decisions.

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Speaker 2: These are just simply intellectually arrogant decisions being made without

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Speaker 2: any regard to what Who has to put food on

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Speaker 2: their table and roofs over their children's heads?

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Speaker 1: So from your perspective, what needs to happen next? I mean,

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Speaker 1: did you guys have any input into providing data? Did

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Speaker 1: they ask industry to provide data? Where do you need

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Speaker 1: to go from here?

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Speaker 2: Fishing guides provide the bulk of the data that this

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Speaker 2: decision is on, and we've been saying for seven years

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Speaker 2: that it is highly flawed. But the manner in which

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Speaker 2: that happens to the extent where the Guide Association put

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Speaker 2: up money unanimously as members last year to create our

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Speaker 2: own data collection system because we were so concerned about

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Speaker 2: how flawed the fisheries one was. Unfortunately that did not

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Speaker 2: get going in time. We certainly need to improve the

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Speaker 2: collection of data. Money needs to be spent on that.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't suggest that we should do absolutely nothing. There

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Speaker 2: was some talk of bag limit changes, protection zones. I

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Speaker 2: think things that don't destroy the industry or the territory

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Speaker 2: way of life. To do some precautionary measures is probably

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Speaker 2: a good idea. We want our children to be able

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Speaker 2: to fish in the future. But in the short term,

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Speaker 2: what we need to do is we need to gear up.

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Speaker 2: We need to make the improvements to the data that

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Speaker 2: fisheries themselves, I might add, recognized without a shadow of

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Speaker 2: a doubt, they recognize how that data is. We need

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Speaker 2: to improve that and we need to go back to

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Speaker 2: the drawing board and whether that be six or twelve months,

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Speaker 2: we need to have another look and plating.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, in the meantime, mate, what do the public need

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Speaker 1: to do? Like, does everybody need to jump online and

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Speaker 1: make sure that they're part of the survey. You know

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Speaker 1: that the government's got going.

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Speaker 2: It's very hard because it's a scientific issue, but certainly

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Speaker 2: I would like to see everybody reject the proposal on

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Speaker 2: the basis that the data is very poor. It's presented

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Speaker 2: as gospel and it is simply not. It was disputed

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Speaker 2: by every single stakeholder group. No stakeholder group supports the data, ourselves,

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Speaker 2: recreational Fishing, the Seafood Council, nobody supports the data.

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Speaker 1: Well, Blaine, you've definitely given us plenty of food for thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know for me listening this morning, I

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Speaker 1: obviously was aware that you know, this survey is underway.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I suppose for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: listening just have no idea like how impactful you know

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Speaker 1: these changes could be. So I would certainly encourage people

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Speaker 1: to jump online and have part have their say as

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Speaker 1: part of this survey made. I really appreciate you having

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Speaker 1: a chat with us this morning. I think it will

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Speaker 1: have provided a lot of people much for the detail

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Speaker 1: that they just simply were not aware of.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thanks so much for your time. I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Have a nice day you too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you