1 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Paul McIntyre, Editor at Large at MI three. 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the three Audio Edition. I've been a business 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: journalist for EON's really covering the marketing, media, agency and 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: tech sectors, and in this series we try to get 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: under the hood on consumer and customer trends and broader 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: developments that are shifting and shaping industry. And this three 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: audio edition is created with commercial partners as part of 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: our Market Voice series. Well, Michael Scott on paper has 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: a stellar career from McDonald's and Nike to Meyer, Virgin, 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: Rip Curl and Moore. He's been a CMO for nearly ever, 11 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: but now the chief Customer and Commercial Officer at the 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: sin Kilda Football Club in Melbourne, and he's never seen 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: anything like it. Mind Blowing is what Michael says when 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: he discovered the engagement levels sin Kilda garners, from fans, 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: members and even the broader AFL community. Sin Guilda's customers, 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: audiences and fans over allion of them are so deeply engaged. 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: There's a fair chance that will send Michael's CMO Piers 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: to tears. When he was at Ripcurl a few years ago, 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: they launched a surf tracking app built into a range 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: of rip curl products. That was, he says, next level 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: in consumer and customer engagement. 22 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 2: A simple proof point. 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: Ripcurl email open rates at thirty five percent were what 24 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: he describes as at a quote, the best I've seen 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: in consumer brand land, and that includes Nike. But even 26 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: ripcurl has to let the Sinkilda Footy Club drop in 27 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: on its fancied customer engagement sets. The club's average open 28 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: rates are sixty five to seventy percent. That's the mind 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: blowing bit we spoke of at the top. Michael's been 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: with Sinkilda about a year now with a full remit 31 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: for customer marketing and all club revenues off field that's merchandise, membership, 32 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: ticket sales, and media among them, and he's seen some 33 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: crazy data. In a nutshell, Sinkilda pretty much doesn't advertise, 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: doesn't need to in paid media, ninety five percent of 35 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: sin Kilda's marketing budget into its content and owned media assets, 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: and now after a major data, customer and tech stack overhaul, 37 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: Michael has his eyes on new products and monetizing Sinkilda's fans, 38 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: members and audiences in ways dramatically different to what other 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: clubs and sporting organizations are doing. Selling Sinkill's super fans 40 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: to advertisers on its owned assets might just be part 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: of the plan. Michael's a long time proponent for brands 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: building their owned media assets and content programs, but he 43 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: seen enough to know the rewards are abundant and the 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: watchouts can bury or kill any owned media initiative. Internal 45 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: turf wars are part of the problem, but it goes 46 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: much broader. So Michael Scott is on the Mics today, 47 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: joined by the co founders at owned media Audit valuation 48 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: and tech firm Sonda, to discuss a live owned media overhaul, 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: the watchouts and of course the upside on business results. 50 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: So welcome gents and Michael Scott. It's hard to get welcome. 51 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: Great to have you on the mics. It's hard to 52 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: get a seasoned customer and marketing executive disc anything as 53 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: mind blowing, but the sin Kilda Football Clubs has done 54 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: that for you. No small feat given what you've worked on. 55 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: What's so different at sin Kilda? Michael, And as I said, 56 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: good to have you on the mics. 57 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: It's been a little. 58 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: While, thanks Paul. Great to join you and the Sounder guys, 59 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 3: who I've known the many many years and worked closely with. Yeah, 60 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: secula Is It's been a wonderful experience. I've only been 61 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 3: here for twelve months. Always worked in and around sport 62 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: and more particularly the Australian Football League with most of 63 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: the brands that I've worked with, and most recently coming 64 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 3: from rip Curl, which is a sixty five year young 65 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 3: Australian founded brand who was quite amazing when it came 66 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: to connection with its consumers. I think prior to joining 67 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: rip Curl, Nike was probably the brand which had the 68 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: greatest level of affinity and love from a consumer point 69 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 3: of view. But rip Curl was founded by surfers for surfers, 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 3: and their understanding on a qualitative level of their consumers 71 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: was just something to behold. It was. It was quite incredible. 72 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: Their quantitative understanding wasn't awesome. But then shifting to Sincurda, 73 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: as I just outlined, like Sinecurta is, it's a one 74 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty year old brand and it's a tribe. 75 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 3: It has generational connection and relationships with families around Australia 76 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: and even parts of in parts of the world, and 77 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: it has been something in behold joining the club and 78 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 3: understanding that the love and the loyalty and the affection 79 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 3: which they have for the club and or brand as 80 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: we practitioners call them. 81 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so just on that, Michael, the comparison between 82 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: those brands Nike and Ripelt. You talked about versus sin Kilda. 83 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: What did you see when you got there that blew 84 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: you away? We talked about, you know, some of the 85 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: open rates. What were some of the things you see 86 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: in the club that told you this is a very 87 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: different beast to what you've been to before. And I 88 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: think you also say sin Kilda is a sentimental favorite 89 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: amongst everyone, amongst all the club fans. 90 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 3: Second, yeah, we are the seat a bit of favorite. 91 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: Where we're a club that's only one premiership in nine 92 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 3: and six, so we've been we've been striving to win 93 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: another one since then. We've got about we'll probably finish 94 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: this year with seventy five thousand members and they're people 95 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: who pay an annual subscription for your membership for you 96 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: to attend our home games. But there's probably some other 97 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 3: quantitative trackers that I can highlight which indicate the levels 98 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: of engagement that we have. So we open rates as 99 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 3: you mentioned, sit at sort of sixty to seventy percent 100 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: and their utility based emails, which is quite amazing, and 101 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: that's an average. Of course, our TikTok engagement rates sit 102 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 3: at around nine and a half ten percent and probably 103 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 3: best practice for consumer brands at around three and a 104 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 3: half to four percent globally and within Australia, AC Milarm 105 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: actually sit about twelve percent, which is extremely high. They're 106 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 3: little indicators of the tribal and connection levels that we 107 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: have amongst our fans. 108 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: So, Michael, you launched a ripcl surfing app whilst you 109 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: were there, and that was a runaway success in terms 110 00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: of a product, right, Yeah. 111 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: It's GPS, so essentially it was a it was Strava 112 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: but for surfing, and it was launched before I got there. 113 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 3: The team that I worked with did a fantastic job 114 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: reimagining it and relaunching it and in over time that 115 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 3: that was in existence and it still exists and it 116 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: continues to evolve and get better and better. But you know, 117 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 3: it tracks twenty five million waves, So twenty five million 118 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: ways were logged by surfers postsurf in seventy six countries 119 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 3: and across two thy four hundred beaches around the world. 120 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 3: It allows you to, much like Strava, compare yourself and 121 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: your performance against a particular break at a particular point 122 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 3: on any beach around the world. And what that allowed 123 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: us to do was get really personalized and push messages 124 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 3: and notifications to surfers around the world to inspire to wow, 125 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: to generate some level of emotion, and or to deliver 126 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 3: utility which could be as little or as much as 127 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: surf conditions for the day at your most favorite break, 128 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: which was nominated. So the Rickkula guys did an amazing 129 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 3: job there. I actually think that's that's gold standard in 130 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 3: terms of understanding a consumer who operates in the context 131 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 3: of your brand and it's offering. And they did that 132 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: particularly well and get better and better over time. 133 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: You talked about personalization there, and you've been at sin Kilda, 134 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: had a massive, big tech overhaul yourself to get to 135 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: where you want to go, which we're going to get 136 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: to now. 137 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: The upshot of all this is. 138 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: That this is all informing a sort of a radically 139 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: different strategies. You say, it's securedy to what many others 140 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: are doing. The consumer segments that you talk about well 141 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,679 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about have landed outside of sporting convention. 142 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: Talk us through what you call this generational strategy that's 143 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: in play because it's important for what's coming next and 144 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: what we'll talk about, Michael. But those three key segments 145 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: you've got tween ages, young families, I think, and so forth. 146 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: What's driving that is a quick, big strategic overview. 147 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: We have a growth mindset. We need to grow and 148 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 3: we're not competing with just other AFL clubs and or 149 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 3: basketball organizations or the rugby league. We're competing for mind 150 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 3: and heart of consumers who have lots of other different interests. 151 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 3: We're up against Netflix and Paramountain stand and so what 152 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 3: we do needs to be relevant and sharp and insightful 153 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 3: and entertaining, and so I guess that's the starting point 154 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: for us. Fortunately, we operate within the most watched, most attended, 155 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: most participated sport in Australia, so there's real cultural relevance 156 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: immediately which we can lean into and we do lean into, 157 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 3: and I guess to enable growth, we need to be 158 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: really clear on who we're going to connect with and 159 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: grow with over time. We have a very traditional set 160 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: of fans and audience who are in love with the 161 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 3: organization and the brand and the club, and we need 162 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 3: to deepen connection there. But equally we meet, we need 163 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 3: to operate and create new experiences and products for a 164 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 3: new set of fans coming through generationally. And so we've 165 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 3: identified tween age girls as a really important growth segment 166 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: for us and the reason for that. In Victoria alone, 167 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: there's about twenty sixery tween age girls who play the game, 168 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 3: So they're low hanging fruit, and what we've discovered through 169 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 3: research is that they're less inclined to follow a club 170 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 3: at five, six, seven years of age. They're more malleable 171 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: to connecting with a club at that sort of tween 172 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: age year range, and so we've got a hallish focus 173 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 3: on them and what that does is inform, you know, 174 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: pretty year fresh thinking around the creation of digital experiences 175 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 3: and physical experiences and ways in which we need to 176 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 3: bring to life and activate our athletes and our stadiums 177 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 3: and our toolkit of marketing assets which we can use 178 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 3: day to day. 179 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: And so that's the twenty ages. You've got young families. 180 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: There's two more segments I think that are your big 181 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: growth plays here. 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, young young families, and we define those as families, 183 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 3: which can be different constructs these days, of course, but 184 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 3: with kids age three to seven. And then we have 185 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: Saints fans and that's where the bulk of our audience 186 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: is today. They're very traditional. The profile of that group 187 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: is typically male and white and aging, and so they're 188 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 3: an amazing and important audience for us, and as I said, 189 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 3: we needed deep in engagement connection with them and bring them, 190 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 3: bring them close to fend them. But I guess the 191 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: more horizonal focus for us in terms of generational growth 192 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 3: of those other two audiences, which just through the description 193 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 3: I've shared with you, it's really obvious that we need 194 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: to do different things and to live at different content 195 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: at different times, through different channels to engage them and 196 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,479 Speaker 3: build consideration, love, affinity, and over time monetize. 197 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: Well, you haven't pulled me up on it yet, Michael, 198 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: but I did say at the top that I think 199 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: about ninety five percent of your budget is in owned media, in. 200 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: Your own media assets. 201 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: Am I right with that in saying that, you know, 202 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: if you think about this new segments that you're chasing, 203 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: that the heavy lifting to deliver the results and find 204 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: those people and engage in at least at the top line, 205 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: top of the funnel. If nothing else is around your 206 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: own media channels and content, you almost do no paid advertising, right, Yeah. 207 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 3: That's true. We're so fortunate again being operating with this 208 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: wonderful sport called this as Train and Football League. Our 209 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 3: toolkit of assets. You know, we've got our website and 210 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 3: our app, and we've got our facility in Moravin. Of course, 211 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: we've got stadiums which we play in email and social 212 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 3: media channels, and so we've got the full full kit 213 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: available to us. And fortunately we have an incredibly disproportionate 214 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 3: amount of attention from media who cover the game. And 215 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: so as a result of that, when we get really 216 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: clear and purposeful around our positioning and our narrative and 217 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 3: we're consistent in and around that, there hasn't been a 218 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 3: great need for us to go out and buy buy media. 219 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 3: As well as that, we have some amazing strategic partners 220 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: and or sponsors can be they can be titled who 221 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 3: in their own right have significant physical and digital footprints 222 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 3: we can tap into and leverage as well. So as 223 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 3: a brand, partnering and working with security, you get amplification 224 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 3: across the country in fairly ubiquitous fashion, both digital and physically. 225 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: Those new targets. 226 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: Why are you so confident sort that combination of your 227 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: partnerships and your owned media strategy, both content and your distribution. 228 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: You've clearly you've got confidence that that's going to happen. 229 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: Is that's the evidence you've seen when you've got there. 230 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we're on a journey. It's a strategy 231 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: and we're executing against it. We've just started executing against it. 232 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 3: So you know, the proof will be in the putting 233 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 3: over the next sort of well five to ten years, 234 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: because as you know, you can't flick a switch and 235 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 3: expect immediate results in terms of relationship, connection, affinity of 236 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 3: brand health. But we've had some amazing results over time 237 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 3: on behalf of our key partner, so Cherry, you may 238 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 3: be familiar with. They're a major partner of ours or 239 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: a Chinese automotive brand who came to Australia a number 240 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: of years ago. So in the short period of time 241 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 3: they've partnered with us, which has only been two years, 242 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 3: we've increased their awareness by seventeen percentage points, consideration by 243 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 3: eight percentage points, and trust by fourteen percentage points. Now 244 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 3: brand that had almost no awareness as a new entrant 245 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 3: into a very mature automotive market. That's an incredible result 246 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 3: which we've been able to deliver through our owned media channel. 247 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 3: And again that's a result of choreographing and integrating everything 248 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 3: as one as opposed to operating in different bits and 249 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 3: parts and in disparate fashion. So I guess that's really 250 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: good evidence in case study of the power of the 251 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 3: marketing platform which we offer to partners, but also the 252 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 3: potential it offers for us as a brand an organization 253 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 3: who needs to grow and is growing into the future. 254 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: We're about to have a chat to Jonathan and Angus 255 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: as well on this stuff. But one of the interesting 256 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: things that you know you've got in front of you 257 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: is take tween ages for example, what you have to 258 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: create in terms of content and where you've got to 259 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: put it. That's a very different beast for what Secuila 260 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: has done. And you know, historically, I think you talked 261 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: about in our previous chat that you were basically you're 262 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: going to use a TikTok channel exclusively for tween ages. 263 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: So there's some pretty interesting strategy going on here with 264 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: your media distribution and how you're using it. 265 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: Big task ahead for changing up your content, Michael. 266 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 3: It's a different way of thinking from how we've operated historically. 267 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 3: You're quite right, TikTok's going to be biased towards young, 268 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 3: young females, as is Instagram, and of course, given the 269 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: audience that we're trying to connect to, it requires a 270 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 3: different style of content creation and it's going to inform, 271 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: I think, quite a bit of collaboration and partnership with 272 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 3: other brands who do have connection into that particular group. 273 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 3: We've got a terrific partnership already with a licensed toy 274 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 3: company by the name of Moose, who have a bunch 275 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 3: of tween Age branded products and they're delivering through the 276 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: insight and research capability to us, which is excellent. But 277 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 3: you know, we're talking children's books and books with VR 278 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: and podcasts and shows and content programming, which is very different. 279 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: One of the great strengths of the AFL and AFL 280 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 3: clubs is that we have AFL W now and while 281 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: women's sport used to be the right thing to do, 282 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 3: it's now the smart thing to do, and so the 283 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 3: women's team, which we've had for a number of years now, 284 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 3: is going to be a particularly important strategic lever for US, 285 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: and you know, young young girls want to see young 286 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: women doing inspiring and amazing things and so the w 287 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 3: program enables that and I believe that it's going to 288 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 3: be one of our biggest growth drivers over the next 289 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 3: five to ten years. And if you look at cricket, 290 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 3: women's cricket and what they're doing globally, if you look 291 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 3: at women's basketball and how that's traveling, and the Matilda's 292 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: even as a recent example within Australia, I mean, they 293 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 3: are in incredible shape as brand franchises. 294 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: You must be interesting, Michael, because even the panelists have 295 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: got questions going on here. Jonathan Hopkins, you're flagging. You've 296 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: got a bit of a curve ball here, or maybe 297 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: not just a good question. But welcome Jonathan by the 298 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: way too, Sorry, thank. 299 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 4: You, thank you. Just about the chat that we were 300 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 4: having earlier reminded me of a marketing book called Beautiful 301 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: Constraint by Adam Morgan and Mark Buden, and they talk 302 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 4: about constraint being a limitation which is often the stimulus 303 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 4: to find a better way of doing something. And many 304 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 4: cmos at their bemoan their marketing budgets being cut and 305 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 4: having to constantly do more with less. But in reality, 306 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 4: what Michael's saying is that the budget constraint actually drove 307 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 4: better results, which is fascinating. So I was just wondering 308 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 4: if he can explain why that's been the case, and 309 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 4: how it's been an issue over the years, and how 310 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 4: he's got around it. 311 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: My first foray into marketing was with McDonald's, which is 312 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 3: an organization which I love and spent nine years at, 313 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: and it was it provided a foundation for not only marketing, 314 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 3: but just commercial orientation and system and process and hospitality 315 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 3: and retailing, and it was it was quite incredible, and 316 00:16:55,080 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: we were so fortunate to have massive budgets, and I'd 317 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 3: have to say, as much as I think we did 318 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 3: really great work and there was a terrific amount of 319 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: innovation within the organization. The size and scalar budget's probably 320 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 3: limited really high grade innovation and creative thought. And it 321 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 3: probably wasn't until I went to Nike, who I think 322 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: everyone believes have significant marketing budgets. But it forced great 323 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: creative thought. And I remember one of my managers saying 324 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: to me once that the best creative and communications is 325 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 3: driven by truth and insight. And one of the things 326 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 3: that Nike was committed to was telling stories through the 327 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 3: eyes of athletes. Always that was their golden rule, and 328 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 3: low and behold they were just as work as you 329 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 3: well know great storytellers. And most of the content and 330 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 3: creative and activations that were produced they either major cry, 331 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 3: they made you laugh, they wowed you, or delivered terrific utility. 332 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 3: And so yeah, it requires a different creative pathway to 333 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: get the work that doesn't require enormous media investment and 334 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 3: production budgets. And I think one of the clues to 335 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 3: that is actually the consolidation of owned assets. And you know, 336 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 3: often retailers don't really acknowledge the power of all of 337 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 3: the different touch points within a retail environment, both digital 338 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 3: and physical, which can, once choreographed, deliver really single minded 339 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: and impactful messaging and all communications. And I guess that's 340 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 3: the topic that we're talking about, leveraging, choreographing and gearing 341 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 3: owned media assets collectively to have impact upon the consumers 342 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 3: which you're trying to reach. And I guess convert or 343 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 3: do whatever you want trying to. 344 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 2: Do well, Jonathan, there's a whole lot in there. 345 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: I think you and Angus talk about this inside out 346 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: model in owned media and content. Is this what Michael's 347 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: talking about doing now, whether he knows he's doing or not, 348 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: but what's the inside out model is probably what I 349 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: should ask you. Then we can work out with the 350 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: michaels On message. 351 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 4: I mean, he's a big practitioner. The inside out model 352 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 4: it's all about flipping traditional thinking on its head, like 353 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 4: media and marketing thinking on its head, which typically starts 354 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 4: with paid media, and it's about taking your audience on 355 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 4: a journey to your business effectively via owned, earned, and paid. 356 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 4: So instead of starting with paid media, you start by 357 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 4: quantifying the amount of your desired audience you can connect 358 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 4: with through own channels and then create compelling content which 359 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 4: earns coverage with partners and impress, and then complete your 360 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 4: audience reach goals with paid media. So he's absolutely delivering 361 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 4: on it, and we've consistently seen this model reduce investment 362 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 4: in paid media to an average of twenty percent. So 363 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 4: once you understand the value of your own media channels 364 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 4: to your marketing plans, then it can reframe the thinking 365 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 4: within an organization. 366 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: Did that happen to you, Michael? Did you see that opportunity? 367 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: Let's put sin Kilda side for a second. In terms 368 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: of your previous lives with other brands, did you apply 369 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: that like in terms of that ability to use your 370 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: owned media to reduce your own marketing budget but also 371 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: be as impactful. 372 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: I think early in my career it wasn't something that 373 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: we practiced or I practiced and or always probably conscious of. 374 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 3: And then I think instinct kicked in once I moved 375 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 3: into organizations that had a smaller budget or budget to 376 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 3: work with. And then Saunder, just through Jonathan and Angus 377 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 3: when we partnered up many many years ago, I think 378 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 3: they bought a level of intelligence and sophistication to actually 379 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 3: taking some of the art and some of the science 380 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 3: and combining it and presenting a sharper, more thoughtful way 381 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 3: of going to market. 382 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Just in terms of your macro plans on owned media, 383 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: and how are you going to do you taking it 384 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: to market? Right, Michael, You're going to take some Kilder's 385 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: audience and apart from all the other things you're doing, 386 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: you're going to offer that to your peers or other 387 00:20:59,119 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: marketings and brands. 388 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, we're an organization that has historically relied 389 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: very heavily on sponsors and strategic partners. So the guys 390 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 3: have been doing it forever in a day, So I 391 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 3: just think there's some refinements and some twiaks that we 392 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 3: need to make. I mean, our for a into market 393 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 3: is and we don't lead with numbers and audience size. 394 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 3: We lead with the fact that we're a tribe, we 395 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 3: have a highly engaged audience and as we know, sitting 396 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 3: above food safety order. The next level up in terms 397 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 3: of Maslow's hierarchy is belonging and connection and as a 398 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: brand and organization, we actually delivered that in spade, So 399 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: that's where we lean into initially, and then once we 400 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 3: advance conversations with prospective partners and or advertisers per se, 401 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 3: then we start talking about audience size and scale. But 402 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,239 Speaker 3: you know, we will never compete with the likes of 403 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 3: nine seven and other big channels which marketers can invest in. 404 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: But I guess our position is that engagement and rich 405 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 3: reach is of pretty high importance and highly valuable. 406 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: Well, I guess you know SONDA does a lot of 407 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: auditing of owned media assets. I'm interested with with engagement 408 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: and what Michael's talking about here. With that level of 409 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:23,719 Speaker 1: engagement with his base, which is quite significant, can and 410 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: do will the market pay premium for that, because this 411 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: is the point where where we've got this whole push 412 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: by the market for big audiences at low cost. How 413 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: does that resonate when you've got an engaged audience like 414 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: Michael has Canson Kilda get some get some premium for it. 415 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 2: Angus. 416 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think yes is the simple answer there, Paul. 417 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 5: You know, we're seeing some commerce and retail media networks 418 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 5: getting in the range of twenty five to fifty premiums 419 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 5: for high performing media formats, and that premium is often 420 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 5: down to things like engagement levels, open rates, sell through 421 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 5: and custom targeting. So you know, the key is being 422 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 5: being able to demonstrate the effectiveness of the media and 423 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 5: or the uniqueness of the audience. And actually, in sin 424 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 5: Kilda's case, I think there's probably both. But this really 425 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 5: is about the first party data that the network has 426 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 5: and that they can then use to demonstrate these factors 427 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 5: like engagement and performance of that kind of thing. 428 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: And so where do you see say something like an 429 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: audience bace that sin Kilda's got Angus versus maybe some 430 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: other brands that are out there. We don't I want 431 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: to ask you to name them, but literally is this 432 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: is it well positioned. Is Sin Kilda really got what 433 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: Michael's talking about. There's a very different level of engagement here. 434 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 5: Ah, Look, I think so, you know, I think there 435 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 5: will be brands out there that would really value the 436 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 5: association with a club like Sint Kilda and the passionate 437 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 5: members of the club. And actually I saw on I 438 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 5: three just today a commentary on the growing influence of 439 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 5: passion points and how tapping into them can actually drive 440 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 5: a forty percent increase what a person is willing to 441 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 5: pay for a product or service that's associated with the 442 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 5: same passions they're interested in. So I think the example 443 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 5: that Michael gave earlier of Cherry is a really good 444 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 5: demonstration of this and that association. It may not appeal 445 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 5: to purely direct response advertiser, but a brand that has 446 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 5: congruency with Sint Kilda and is looking to piggyback off 447 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 5: its relationship the club has with its members will find 448 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 5: it really appealing. It's about the company you keep saying 449 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 5: something about you and which you know, in the case 450 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 5: of Sint Kilda, is very different to the relationship a 451 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 5: viewer or a reader has with a typical media outlet. 452 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 5: So then you add to that the performance of some 453 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 5: of the media channels that Michael was talking about earlier, 454 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 5: and you've got to I think a very compelling opportunity. 455 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 3: I think it in a sentence. The thing that secureda 456 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 3: can deliver and probably more broadly sport is it can 457 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 3: fast track re elements and credibility and emotional connection. 458 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: And that goes back to your maslow point too, doesn't it, Michael. 459 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: So one of the things that I'm fascinated over the 460 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 1: last two or three years watching the sort of the 461 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: retail media networks and what you guys call comments media 462 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: networks come to the market pretty quickly, is that the 463 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: ad market is a fluid market, right, It's dynamic, and 464 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: so that right now abably the last six months eight months, 465 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: we've seen advertisers pull back spending in the Australian market 466 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: by you know, double digits. Will the prospects Angus of 467 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: a owned media initiative likes and killed or all some 468 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: of the others that you've been working with. Are they 469 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: added the same commercial or the market pressures for pricing 470 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: as as traditional media companies or do they find a 471 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: way around that. 472 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 5: Look, I think in our experience from what we've seen, 473 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 5: they can actually rise above it, and for all the 474 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 5: reasons I think Michael has spoken to in terms of 475 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 5: the brand, the relationship with members, it oftentimes won't be 476 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 5: compared directly in the same way as you know, a 477 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 5: typical media opportunity, because they're not typical media opportunities. You know, 478 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 5: having this kind of association is not something that is 479 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 5: easily procured out in the market. You know, connecting with 480 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 5: people who are so passionate and engaged with the entity 481 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 5: is not something that's easy to buy. So I think, 482 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 5: you know, for those reasons, sports and clubs like Saint Kilda, 483 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 5: I think can stay above it and have something really 484 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 5: meaningful to to offer advertisers. 485 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: Well, Michael, what's your thoughts on on this? 486 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: This this sort of market pressure at the moment your 487 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: marketing peers and you know, I realize that you're commercial now, 488 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: you've got revenue under your remit as well, but a 489 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of marketers and brains are under 490 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: pressure to deliver more for less engaged but smaller audiences 491 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: typically mean more fragmentation, more work, more planning, and more 492 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: work on the execution. How do you get them to 493 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: a less as more position engagement but less than lower 494 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: numbers actually is better for them and would you buy 495 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: your line if you're listening to yourself at the moment. 496 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: It's probably a redundant question, but I asked it anyway. 497 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I've just always been an advocate of having 498 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 3: a conversation with someone on the street rather than walking 499 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 3: through the middle of the road with a megaphone screaming 500 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 3: and yelling. So I just think that if you strip, 501 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 3: I've always again recommended the teams that I've worked with 502 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 3: to think about our brand or the brand that we've 503 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 3: worked on as a person. How does a person talk 504 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 3: to you, connect with you, listen to you, engage with you, 505 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 3: build a relationship with you. And I just don't think 506 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 3: screaming and yelling at the top of your voice achieves much. 507 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 3: You know, there's different levels of awareness which you can 508 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 3: achieve so meaningful and some not so meaningful. 509 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: You have done them with sonder before. What value do 510 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: they provide for someone like you and marketing execs with 511 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: an owned media remit Michael. 512 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I conducted me. You're ordered at Virgin Australia and 513 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 3: at my I don't think we've got to one at Nike, 514 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 3: and I just highly recommend it. It presents quantifiable evidence 515 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 3: of the potential and value which it offers your organization. 516 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 3: I think it does a really good job to remove 517 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 3: any emotion and or subjectivity which will always exist within 518 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: an organization around values of touch points which you've got 519 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 3: as part of the toolbox. 520 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: So this whole owned media thing, Michael, you know, it's 521 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: great having you on because you've got exposure across a 522 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: bunch of different brands. Are there differences that you've seen 523 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: both where you've worked, but observations beyond about how brands 524 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: manage owned media and content you're at at the startup Sweat, 525 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: I think, for example, they did things very differently, say 526 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: to when you're at Virgin I assume, But is there 527 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: differences in how these things roll out? 528 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 3: My observation would be that, particularly within retail organizations, that 529 00:28:53,640 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 3: there's typically a resistance or existing paradigm which doesn't limit, 530 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 3: but it prohibits they're coming together of functions to work 531 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 3: together and choreograph and orchestrate single minded focus and use 532 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 3: of owned media assets. And that's probably been a barrier 533 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 3: of experienced and observed which gets in the way of 534 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 3: this touristic strategy. Less retail the likes of digital subscription, 535 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 3: Rand Sweat and football clubs and the one that I 536 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 3: work within currently, where smaller organizations less paradigm historically in 537 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 3: terms of functions not working together, it becomes far more 538 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 3: powerful and as you're to execute against when the egos 539 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 3: are dropped, the paradigms are put to the side and 540 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 3: everyone just recognizes the incredible value which it offers the organization. 541 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: So you talk about silos and those sort of almost 542 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: turf wars in some ways, but you know you're in 543 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: a patch and. 544 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: We will do it. Did you see? 545 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think about how you in an 546 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: airline context, you know, I get it in retail and 547 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: what you're talking about between media teams, marketing teams and 548 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: perhaps merchandise airlines. What are some of the fiction points 549 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: or barriers that can slow that down there? 550 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: Though? 551 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 3: Well, we had some terrific experiences at Virgin Australia. In 552 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 3: part we basically identified and brought together every consumer touch 553 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 3: point from the moment you got out of a cab 554 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 3: until the moment you stepped onto the plane, sat down 555 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 3: in the plane and then disembarked. When we built a 556 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 3: media business around it, and that was due to the 557 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 3: terrific work which Sonda did with us at that point. 558 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 3: The clunk there or the speed bump which existed was 559 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 3: that the Velocity business, which is where all the data sat, 560 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: a separate and different entity. And I think we all 561 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 3: recognized the value that that had to tap into, but 562 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 3: we just didn't have the wherewithal and the capability at 563 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: the time to bring all of that together, which would 564 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 3: have been just amazing. But saying that, the job that 565 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 3: we did do with what we had control over was 566 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 3: terrific and delivered material commercial value back. 567 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: To the secured US not such a big beast. Did 568 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: it have silos at all? When you've got them? 569 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: At course the silos, but did have silos in context 570 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: of owned media initiatives for you or in your team? 571 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 2: Would you change things up at all? 572 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 3: I was really fortunate when I came into the organization, 573 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 3: structural shift had been made which essentially brought all consumer 574 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: facing customer facing functions together as one, so didn't have 575 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 3: to go through that phase and process of me knitting 576 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 3: it together as the new guy. It was brought together 577 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 3: before I joined, which has made what we're doing a 578 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 3: holt easier to execute against an operationalized. 579 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,479 Speaker 1: As aligning those internal functions. Jonathan Angus, this keeps coming up, 580 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: doesn't it. Organizational alignment issue your thoughts on this, and 581 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: obviously you've seen it quite a bit with Michael over 582 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: the years working with them too. But the big challenge 583 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: there talk to us about it. 584 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 4: Like anything new, Paul, that comes down to appetite for 585 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 4: change within the organizations, so those who resist change will 586 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 4: be slower to and the idea that commercial game can 587 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 4: work in tandem with customer engagement, no doubt, it's a 588 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 4: delicate balance. But as we've heard today from Michael, modern 589 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 4: businesses are repring the rewards from this approach. In our 590 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 4: recent report, we collaborated with a CMO Council for a 591 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 4: global survey of cmos and that fan that sixty eight 592 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 4: percent of cmos are using their own media for their 593 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 4: own brands marketing campaigns at the moment, with that expected 594 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 4: to rise to eighty seven percent in the next two years. 595 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 4: So I think as time goes on, you know, it's 596 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,719 Speaker 4: that people are starting to realize the power of what 597 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 4: they have sitting in their own business. 598 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 5: And I think further on that, you know, businesses need 599 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 5: to accept that owned media beverage is an ongoing program, 600 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 5: not a moment in time project. You know, it requires 601 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 5: cross functional teams to fundamentally change their processes and old 602 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 5: ways of managing and media, you know, which is often 603 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 5: you know that paradigm shift that Michael was mentioning earlier 604 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 5: and where we've seen at work is when there is 605 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 5: that executive level buy and a senior mobilizer who can 606 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 5: actually bring about the change across an organization. 607 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 4: And this is where a role like Michaels can really 608 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 4: have an impact. But they're just aren't enough of them, 609 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 4: not just in Australia but around the world. And it's 610 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 4: still quite rare to have a chief customer and commercial 611 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 4: officer in under the same REMIT. But I think that's 612 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 4: what's required to really drive impact. Either that or the 613 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 4: CEO really kind of brings all departments together and says, 614 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 4: this is what we're doing and it's happening and get 615 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 4: on board. 616 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: Well, Michael, this is the thing you talk about getting 617 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: all departments together. You talk about in this big initiative 618 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: around data federating data for instance, you've got a I 619 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: T and tech the tech teams on site for your 620 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: big project. But part of this first party data. I 621 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: think Angus talked about or Jonathan one of them around 622 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: how important that is to an owned media operation. You've 623 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: done a big initiative on this and trying to sort 624 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: of unify everything in your profiles and your data. 625 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 2: Right. 626 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're in the process of it. I was fortunate 627 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 3: enough to live through a four year journey at Ripker 628 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 3: where we undertook a major change and transformation which required 629 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 3: a combination of replatforming, federation of data, bring capability to 630 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 3: the business and then operationalizing it. And it's easy to say, 631 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 3: but it's really challenging to do and we're part of 632 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 3: the way through that process here at Sint Kilda. It 633 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 3: started before I arrived. We've got some really talented people 634 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 3: and the entire organization, you know, the heads of all 635 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 3: the key functions who are required in this project, coming 636 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 3: together with a shared vision and ambition which is pretty simple. 637 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,439 Speaker 3: It's to get the right message at the right time 638 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 3: to the right person through the right channel automated and 639 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 3: that's our constant north star reference point for decision that 640 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 3: we're doing around this project. 641 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: What's your tips learning on aligning the organization? 642 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: Talked about that project at Ripkel does something like that, 643 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: whether you've got a technology project help align different units 644 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: in the org, or does it actually create more more friction. 645 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: But in the end is what's some good tips that 646 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 1: actually help that organizational alignment get over the speed bump 647 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 1: that you talk about. 648 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 3: I think the value creation was on a dollarsand cents level, 649 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 3: was a thing that probably captured most people's attention. I 650 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 3: mean most organizations and the current economic climate, you know, 651 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 3: it's a challenge to grow, it's highly competitive, it's tough 652 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 3: to get consumers attention, and so you can talk to 653 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 3: acquisition of data and personalization and marketing sharpness, but really 654 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 3: that they're all nice to hear. But if you're a 655 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 3: CEO and a CFO and they're the ultimate arbiters on 656 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 3: where resourcing is placed and investments that are made, you 657 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 3: need to present a value creation story. And I think 658 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 3: that's probably the thing that allows organizations to shift gear 659 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 3: and put a particular focus on that sort of work 660 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 3: and that sort of project. 661 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: Jonathan Agus, do you see that in some of your 662 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: other work that sort of is the catalyst, the circuit 663 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: breaker to get alignment. 664 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 4: I think it's, as Angus mentioned before, it's top down 665 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 4: and then bottom up as well. That enthusiasm amongst the 666 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 4: different teams to get involved and having a working group 667 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 4: with a member from each function is something we've seen 668 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 4: a lot of which is quite a useful way of 669 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 4: getting advocates to spread the word internally. 670 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: Angus with what you've heard from Michael and what's going 671 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,959 Speaker 1: on in the market, a couple of observations there before 672 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: we wind it up. 673 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 5: So look, I think you organizations with passionate, loyal customers 674 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 5: have this huge opportunity to leverage that relationship responsibly through 675 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 5: owned media and sin Kilda has a very powerful relationship 676 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 5: with its members. But with that comes the responsibility to 677 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 5: treat me with reverence. The balancing act, I think is 678 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 5: not letting that reverence stop you from actually leveraging the 679 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 5: media that connects with them. And I think, you know, businesses. 680 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 3: Need to. 681 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 5: Find that line in the sand and figure out how 682 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 5: to walk it carefully. But it's possible and it can 683 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 5: be done. 684 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: Michael, what you see in the market, what you're doing, 685 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: Any sort of final thoughts there on the owned media race, 686 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: it's on. 687 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's all about rich reach and engagement 688 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 3: and anything that can fast track relevance and credibility and 689 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 3: emotional connection in this day and age is a really 690 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 3: powerful thing to consider. 691 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 2: Jonathan. 692 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 4: Final thoughts, A core message from today to those marketers 693 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 4: who are facing pressure to do more with less is 694 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 4: to embrace the beautiful constraint. Look to your own channels 695 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 4: to see how you can leverage them better in your 696 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 4: own marketing and also generate some revenue to help fund 697 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 4: your marketing. Brand partners investing in your own media network. 698 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, at twenty percent number you mentioned, Jonathan was 699 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: fascinating of what they can help co fund well, Jonathan Hopkins, 700 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: Angus Fraser, Michael Scott. 701 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 2: Great to have you on the mics. Michael. 702 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: Great stories from the trenches, so thanks for joining and 703 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: stay safe. This three audio edition was presented by Paul McIntyre, 704 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: producer Alissa Partington. Music by Matt Dwyer. For more episodes, 705 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: download the iheartapp and search three audio edition, or the 706 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: same for any of the major podcast networks.