Speaker 1: Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and
Speaker 1: on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with
Speaker 1: the biggest players in television today. On the podcast, I
Speaker 1: have a pretty big deal. And that's my words and
Speaker 1: not his. It's CEO and MD at ITV Studios. David
Speaker 1: Mott a man who has made a mark on Australian
Speaker 1: television with an I for detail, partnership and friendships that
Speaker 1: have seen him work at Channel seven, Channel nine and
Speaker 1: Channel ten, famously stopping along the way as Head of
Speaker 1: Programming and then as Chief Programming Officer at Channel ten.
Speaker 1: He has danced between networks and production studios for as
Speaker 1: long as I've been alive. David Mott has taken risks,
Speaker 1: played it safe, mixed it up, and he never talks
Speaker 1: too long without acknowledging the people who work around him.
Speaker 1: He has been responsible for commissioning some of the biggest
Speaker 1: Australian content and continues to make programs on Free to
Speaker 1: wear that you want to watch. So let's get started
Speaker 1: with some exclusive content on how these shows get made.
Speaker 2: I think in a business that we're in, you certainly
Speaker 2: have your moments.
Speaker 1: It's time to go. Sarah Marie.
Speaker 2: What was interesting about that was we actually didn't put
Speaker 2: it to air.
Speaker 1: I share a flat with Alex Scan. We're pretty much opposites.
Speaker 2: I would like to see the Australian broadcasters take a
Speaker 2: few more risks.
Speaker 3: Last night on Mastership Australia.
Speaker 2: Mastership was clearly one that we were very nervous about.
Speaker 1: If I've paid money to see that performance, I would
Speaker 1: be asking for that money.
Speaker 2: But if you've got a platform of content that's working
Speaker 2: really well, you can afford to kind of take a
Speaker 2: few risks.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast, Welcome to TV reload mate, this
Speaker 1: is quite something.
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: Well, can I embarrass you just a little bit? I
Speaker 1: know that you'll probably hate this, but I've been swimming
Speaker 1: in some of the greatest minds of television for the
Speaker 1: last month, and so many people in the industry have
Speaker 1: mentioned you, But then they've paused to say, what a
Speaker 1: lovely man said in such a specific way. How have
Speaker 1: you managed to cultivate such a positive repute in an
Speaker 1: industry that, in all intensive purposes is quite cutthroat.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, they don't know me very well. First
Speaker 2: of all, thank you, that's a very nice comment. And
Speaker 2: I think in a business that we're in, you certainly
Speaker 2: have your moments in your days, Ben, There's no question
Speaker 2: about that. Probably come from great parents, great upbringing, who
Speaker 2: the hell knows, but here we are and it's been
Speaker 2: a fascinating journey for me and love to tell some stories.
Speaker 1: Well, look, you commissioned the first Big Brother Australian idol,
Speaker 1: also the first Master Chef and the project. What do
Speaker 1: you look for in good television content?
Speaker 2: You know, when I look back finally at some of
Speaker 2: the shows that we commissioned, we took some risks back
Speaker 2: in those days, and I think, if anything, if there's
Speaker 2: any sort of legacy to leave behind, there's sort of
Speaker 2: that notion of, you know what, you've really got to
Speaker 2: take some risk. Nowadays in life they're always considered risks,
Speaker 2: but if you really want to sort of change the
Speaker 2: way that people think about content or really take some
Speaker 2: sort of bold steps, but to do that, you've got
Speaker 2: to have good people around you, and that's what it is.
Speaker 2: But I think for me in the days of I mean,
Speaker 2: Big Brother was extraordinary in its day, that turn Channel
Speaker 2: ten around, But you know, it's an interesting cycle in
Speaker 2: terms of where television was and how you know, these
Speaker 2: formats come back into play again as Big Brother did,
Speaker 2: and now we're seeing a third iteration of it. So
Speaker 2: it just goes to show that those brands that have
Speaker 2: longevity to them, they will be around for many years
Speaker 2: to come because they've got something in the dna of
Speaker 2: what they are. And sure, other shows come and go,
Speaker 2: so you try and find that content that really puts
Speaker 2: people into a great immersive position where it's not another
Speaker 2: renovation show, it's not another cooking show. And hey, I
Speaker 2: replaced Big Brother with Master Chefs, so I know about
Speaker 2: cooking shows. I think something in there. There was Yasin's
Speaker 2: getting Married, which you know, talk about it, talk about,
Speaker 2: talk about it, talking about it's actually become the vernacular.
Speaker 2: I think in terms of doing a Gasmin Yasmin's getting Married.
Speaker 2: Could it be that lasted for a big four days
Speaker 2: on television, But you know, that was all part of it.
Speaker 2: It was all part of taking risks and going, you
Speaker 2: know what, you've got to have an each way bet
Speaker 2: on these things. Arguably Yasmin was where the Bachelor is
Speaker 2: today or shows of that nature, So maybe it's sort
Speaker 2: of ahead of its time in terms of that sort
Speaker 2: of dating genre. And that's the way I always like
Speaker 2: to look at it anyway, try to put a positive
Speaker 2: sort of spin on it. But you know, then you
Speaker 2: sort of look back with days of Australian I on
Speaker 2: the innocence of that. I mean that show with Guy
Speaker 2: and obviously we're working with Guy on The Voice now,
Speaker 2: which my production company's producing. It's really funny catching up
Speaker 2: with Guy and thinking back to those very very early
Speaker 2: days of Australia and here we are ten years later,
Speaker 2: and look at us even now we've just put in
Speaker 2: with Channel seven, we've moved the so we've got Jess
Speaker 2: Melboy again. It was very much a part of Australian idol.
Speaker 2: So there's the beautiful things that come out of it
Speaker 2: as a result, but it was also the innocence of
Speaker 2: what idol present as well. No one knew what we
Speaker 2: really had. There'd been pop stars and we just felt
Speaker 2: that maybe there was something in Australian idol. So there's
Speaker 2: nothing better than seeing a show come from what was
Speaker 2: a really good idea to kind of going seeing it
Speaker 2: being realized and then seeing it and then see it perform.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you get the highs and lows, but they're
Speaker 2: the ones that you have great memories of.
Speaker 1: Is there a show that you fought really hard to
Speaker 1: get made and that you still to this day feel
Speaker 1: genuinely proud of.
Speaker 2: Had many children that I loved throughout the time. I
Speaker 2: think Marster's shift was clearly one that we were very
Speaker 2: nervous about. And it wasn't just me, it was from
Speaker 2: the CEO down Grant Blackly at the time as well,
Speaker 2: who's now at SCA. We just felt something special about
Speaker 2: food in the way that was going to present and
Speaker 2: we had Jamie Oliver, we did some series with him,
Speaker 2: We Didift, a local version, and so we knew there
Speaker 2: was interest in food and it was a big call
Speaker 2: to kind of replace Big Brother with it. It was
Speaker 2: quite a shift from there, But yeah, I suppose that
Speaker 2: would have to be arguably the one that was something
Speaker 2: that not only did it capture the hearts and imaginations
Speaker 2: of everyone and Shine Back then did a beautiful job
Speaker 2: and they still do a beautiful job in Australia's First Master.
Speaker 2: Jeff has to have that kind of genius that sometimes
Speaker 2: fails and sometimes succeeds amazing letter. But here's another format
Speaker 2: that's ten years on and it's lived through many iterations.
Speaker 2: We've had Junior, you've had Celebrity and the All Stars. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the core premise of what that show represents it's
Speaker 2: still here ten years later, so I think there's something
Speaker 2: quite special on that. Even thank God you're here and
Speaker 2: Rode back in the day and the biggest those that
Speaker 2: did a fantastic job for the network. We tried to
Speaker 2: position ourselves at the time of sort of playing in
Speaker 2: a different place where seven and nine wouldn't play, I suppose,
Speaker 2: and with that comes as risk. Even Offspring was fantastic
Speaker 2: sleect Life of Us, some sort of bold dramas that
Speaker 2: the others wouldn't play in. I'll be perfectly honest with you,
Speaker 2: I don't think I could go back to the broadcast
Speaker 2: business now because I don't know if I'd be any
Speaker 2: good at it, because it's shifted so much from back
Speaker 2: in those days when you happily had five chattels to
Speaker 2: deal with, there were no streaming services and what have you.
Speaker 2: So I do go. My god, I have nothing but
Speaker 2: respect for those that are working in that side of
Speaker 2: it now. I'm very happy to be going in there
Speaker 2: going hey, by my show.
Speaker 1: How did you feel in regard to the response of
Speaker 1: I'm a celebrity. It's rated so well. Did you think
Speaker 1: that this show was going to work being filmed here
Speaker 1: in Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we found that we were coming off a very
Speaker 2: strong base. Aguly, the show could have been done from
Speaker 2: Australia from day one, but it's that fish out of water,
Speaker 2: that cultural clash that I think it was probably a
Speaker 2: little bit easier once you've established what the brand is
Speaker 2: to go, hey, now we're in Australia. It seemed like
Speaker 2: an easy shift from South Africa to Australia. Well, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: From a business point of view, it was quite challenging,
Speaker 2: but there was nothing but support from ten in wanting
Speaker 2: to and also I think the viewer has got it.
Speaker 2: Clearly you can't go overseas, so clearly it has to
Speaker 2: be in Australia. So I think that gave us the
Speaker 2: license to do that and we're very happy with the result.
Speaker 2: And I think Channel ten have been great supporters of
Speaker 2: the show right from the start and got even when
Speaker 2: I was at Channel ten, we were very close to
Speaker 2: commissioning it never did though. It was a risky proposition.
Speaker 2: It's not a cheap show to produce, so therefore it's
Speaker 2: not a cheap show for Channel ten to license. So
Speaker 2: it's a big commitment from them, And probably in its
Speaker 2: early days it was up against MKR. And when Beverly
Speaker 2: and I had a conversation around the brand, particularly when
Speaker 2: she lost the sport, and she said, look, I've been
Speaker 2: thinking about Celebrity being playing it in January, and I said,
Speaker 2: I think that's a brilliant move. No one was really
Speaker 2: expecting it to go. My god, why can't you put
Speaker 2: a big show, an investing content in January? And oh,
Speaker 2: the official rating season don't start in February. Well, you
Speaker 2: know what, And there's a term that I use in space.
Speaker 2: No one can hear you scream. If you don't have
Speaker 2: decent content on, no one's going to be able to
Speaker 2: see your schedule, your primos and all those sort of things.
Speaker 2: And quite frankly, it was a brilliant strategic move. Obviously
Speaker 2: going to say that now it's worked, but it was.
Speaker 2: And so here we are sort of six seasons on
Speaker 2: and we're now talking about season seven.
Speaker 1: What do you think about these shows being rebooted overlooking
Speaker 1: for new concepts.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it says the strength of those
Speaker 2: brands with the reboot, it says just how great they
Speaker 2: as we're talking about before the fact that Big Brothers
Speaker 2: back again, and I mean they're kind of evergreen shows
Speaker 2: that will be around for years to come. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think Celebrity is going to be around for a
Speaker 2: long time now. It will have a moment and then
Speaker 2: it will come back. The voice will have a moment
Speaker 2: and then you know, it'll come back. So you've got
Speaker 2: those brands that just have something quite special about them
Speaker 2: and so unique. You know, I can understand the broadcasters
Speaker 2: sort of going, you know what, it's improven brand, we
Speaker 2: know how it works. It's time for a reboot, or
Speaker 2: it's time to sort of bring it back because there's
Speaker 2: always an audience with it because the basic bones and
Speaker 2: principle of the show can still work today in today's environment,
Speaker 2: even though you've got s good players and what have you,
Speaker 2: and I think certainly a place that the freeedomares need
Speaker 2: to play them from a free to air point of view.
Speaker 2: You know, we could talk about scripted and those areas
Speaker 2: a bit more challenged from a free to air point
Speaker 2: of view, but certainly big entertainment shows, we certainly are
Speaker 2: not moving away from strip reality anytime soon you can
Speaker 2: see that whether you like it or not, it's what
Speaker 2: the audience are wanting. So it's all about finding what
Speaker 2: that new world could be that you can mine and
Speaker 2: you can kind of create, and it might be a
Speaker 2: little show that we have at ITV to go my god,
Speaker 2: could you actually build that out to be a multi
Speaker 2: four night week series. So we're always looking for the
Speaker 2: what that looks like and then mash it in and
Speaker 2: then kind of build something out of it. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know when we did Biggest Loser, that was only
Speaker 2: a ninety minute show on NBC on Tuesday nights, and
Speaker 2: we're running the US version and that kind of workdayk
Speaker 2: do it? Could that become five hours a week? And
Speaker 2: you know how much weight can people lose? Well a
Speaker 2: fair bit. So even now you're talking to the UK
Speaker 2: and how we as broadcast as promote shows compared to
Speaker 2: the UK, and I said, look, you've got to talk
Speaker 2: about shows just for the Australian market and they go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: we know Australia. I said, no, I don't think you
Speaker 2: do know the Australian market. I don't know the strip
Speaker 2: sensibility and what are married at first sight? Looks like
Speaker 2: and what a Lego Master's or a voice is stripped,
Speaker 2: and you know Survivor is stripped and everything's about this
Speaker 2: strip mentality. So what I did by Head of Development MICHAEH.
Speaker 2: Houston and I we went to a conference pre COVID
Speaker 2: of course, and we sat down, we showed them some
Speaker 2: of the pro boats and you know, in the year
Speaker 2: car to be if if you really don't mind, would
Speaker 2: you mind watching our show Sunday night at seven o'clock.
Speaker 2: Jolly good, thank you very much, it'd be nice.
Speaker 4: Whereas whereas literally in Australia, it's this piece of Lego
Speaker 4: will change your life, good global phenomena.
Speaker 2: Sorry to an incredible Newhi Lego Masters and after the
Speaker 2: break the biggest show ever is about to happen, and
Speaker 2: they kind of got it and went, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I want to watch that now. And that's the way
Speaker 2: we produce shows is very different to a lot of
Speaker 2: other territories, so to get their mindset around, oh okay,
Speaker 2: we get it now. But you know, but having said
Speaker 2: that too, there's definitely room for other content. And I
Speaker 2: do look at shows that we're producing the Cube at
Speaker 2: the moment, and we've secured Andy Lee, which is absolutely
Speaker 2: the right show for him, and I'm so pleased that
Speaker 2: he has agreed to do it because he brings something
Speaker 2: very unique to the format and I know that he
Speaker 2: was a fan of the show, and of course I've
Speaker 2: known him for years when we did the Caravan a
Speaker 2: Courage and had them on segments a row, and so
Speaker 2: I was looking for the right project for him and
Speaker 2: he just loves it. So we've just finished filming. At
Speaker 2: the moment, the format is great in its own right.
Speaker 2: People are playing these sort of parlor games, if you will,
Speaker 2: within the confines of a four x fourmut of cube,
Speaker 2: but under the pressure of the cube, under pressure of
Speaker 2: a lot of prize money. But then it's a great
Speaker 2: format in its own right, and so we secured the
Speaker 2: format for Australia. But then adding Andy's elements to it
Speaker 2: and what he brings to it is really quite something special.
Speaker 2: The games might look simple, but with the whole of
Speaker 2: Australia watching and a quarter a million dollars in the line,
Speaker 2: it's not that simple, is it. That launches on ten?
Speaker 2: But now that's not a strip that's going to be
Speaker 2: a weekly standalone show. I'm not quite sure We're ten
Speaker 2: of running it yet, I've got a bit of an idea,
Speaker 2: but I don't think it's locked in yet. So that's
Speaker 2: kind of got to stand above everything else. And that's
Speaker 2: what I love about it because you know what it does,
Speaker 2: because it's a very different show to anything else.
Speaker 1: I think it already has good buzz like I think
Speaker 1: that's what you need as well. You need the groundswell
Speaker 1: of that sort of surfacing. What sort of notes do
Speaker 1: you hand over about casting? Do you have a brief
Speaker 1: that you come in and say, look, this is what
Speaker 1: I kind of want at the groundset?
Speaker 2: I think always feel that you know the way. I'll
Speaker 2: leaders lead with the team and we work with the broadcasters.
Speaker 2: Obviously from a casting point of view, we've got a
Speaker 2: great cast of the blinds for the voice that we're
Speaker 2: recording soon. In terms of artists, you don't really know
Speaker 2: what's going to happen after that, but you'll depending on
Speaker 2: the coaches certainly. The casting on celebrity is a very
Speaker 2: detailed process that we go through with the broadcaster, and
Speaker 2: it's just all done in conjunction. You know, what are
Speaker 2: we missing? What do we need again? Alex Is at
Speaker 2: nine or ten. We'll always sort of look at and
Speaker 2: he's very good from that point of view and understanding
Speaker 2: what he thinks the show needs. So there's a lot
Speaker 2: of work that goes into that casting process. So I
Speaker 2: think we're all hands in knowing that by and large,
Speaker 2: you need a it's going to engage an audience. You
Speaker 2: need a cast that's going to put their bags down,
Speaker 2: make a shitloader noise and maybe not last a distance.
Speaker 2: And then you need those ones that are going to
Speaker 2: sort of be the ones that will start to shine
Speaker 2: and come through a week or so later. Introverts, extroverts.
Speaker 2: You really need an element of that with all your casting.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a process. You work very closy from
Speaker 2: production to broadcast.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. You know, after working in such integral
Speaker 1: roles right across the country with all of the Freeedoware
Speaker 1: networks at some point or another, you know some of
Speaker 1: them for seventeen years. What do you think nine, seven,
Speaker 1: and ten are doing right moving into twenty twenty one.
Speaker 5: I would say that there's certainly when you look at
Speaker 5: the schedules, they're very competitive schedules now in terms of
Speaker 5: what their offerings are.
Speaker 2: I think seven have made a shift away from I
Speaker 2: think that was the right but that had to be
Speaker 2: the right move to make, and that was a tough
Speaker 2: call for for James and Angus and backers to make
Speaker 2: because they had some of their own content MKR and
Speaker 2: they are always doing a job for them. But you
Speaker 2: could clearly see that again that needed the pause, that
Speaker 2: needed the break, and I think there were too reliant
Speaker 2: on shows coming out of their own back out. I
Speaker 2: think they wanted to be a very strong publisher broadcaster
Speaker 2: and what I mean by that is they wanted to create, own, distribute,
Speaker 2: do the whole lot. Now, that's fantastic if you can
Speaker 2: achieve that, but I've got to tell you, having been
Speaker 2: on this side of the business, it ain't easy. And
Speaker 2: I think seven of them learned and you look at
Speaker 2: the success of what they've now done by going, you
Speaker 2: know what, we just need the best shows in the market.
Speaker 2: So whether it's an ITV show, whether it's an Animal
Speaker 2: Shine Show, Banajay, Freemantle, Warner Brothers, we just want the
Speaker 2: best shows. And so I think with that they've taken
Speaker 2: some risks. Now they've taken some risks that are more
Speaker 2: risky than others, but they've taken and risks, but they've
Speaker 2: just gone out to the market to say we are
Speaker 2: open for business. And I remember talking to James Warburton
Speaker 2: because we work together at ten of course, and James said,
Speaker 2: we're open for business modey. We just want the best
Speaker 2: shows in the market. And it's a tough game when
Speaker 2: you've got to resource up your business and maybe that's
Speaker 2: not the best game for you to be in lead
Speaker 2: that to others, you know. And I do feel that
Speaker 2: there's now proofs there that that's the right objective, particularly
Speaker 2: when you've got some great IP. I mean, we will
Speaker 2: spend in development, probably sometimes up to two years. I'm
Speaker 2: going back and forward on a show. Is it right
Speaker 2: to go to market? Is it timely now? So we
Speaker 2: have these development meetings with our team, and then we
Speaker 2: work with the UK, So we're in with the UK
Speaker 2: with the US TV, and we're going back and forward
Speaker 2: on content and trends. And broadcasters don't have that much time.
Speaker 2: They got massive, big they got share, they've got sales clients,
Speaker 2: they got a whole world of different things that they
Speaker 2: need to focus on where we can take a lot
Speaker 2: of that pain away from them. And I think James
Speaker 2: certainly learnt that straight away to go, Yeah, you guys
Speaker 2: have done all that and you've got proof of concept.
Speaker 2: I would like to see the Australian broadcasters take a
Speaker 2: few more risks at some point. We've got to sort
Speaker 2: of step up and go, right, we're going to take
Speaker 2: on a format that is a paper format, but it's
Speaker 2: up to us to put the rigor and the focus
Speaker 2: and the due diligence around to go this is worth
Speaker 2: taking a risk on. And I feel that there's not
Speaker 2: as much of that, I mean, but shows can still
Speaker 2: be a risk. I mean, Marsa's Cheff was sort of
Speaker 2: a late afternoon show in the UK, so to put
Speaker 2: that in prime time was risky and particularly in terms
Speaker 2: of how we built it out, but it was still
Speaker 2: a format that existed. So I do feel sometimes we're
Speaker 2: a bit risk averse. You know. That probably comes with
Speaker 2: the pressure of the business as well, because you know,
Speaker 2: I took some risk of my last year at ten
Speaker 2: and some went well and some didn't. You know, you've
Speaker 2: got to juggle those around and kind of that's the
Speaker 2: tricky part of the business, I suppose. But I do
Speaker 2: feel there's opportunities to take some of those risks if
Speaker 2: you've got a platform of content that's working really well,
Speaker 2: you can afford to kind of take a few risks
Speaker 2: or some other shows and see where they go, and
Speaker 2: even start small. Go you know what, I really think, whatdy?
Speaker 2: This show could be a big twenty part series eventually,
Speaker 2: but let's start small and do six or eight episodes
Speaker 2: or something like that. And that way, you know you're
Speaker 2: not taking on a massive, big risk. You're giving a go.
Speaker 2: It's not necessary a format that exists, it's it's from
Speaker 2: a great, brilliant idea that you go, yeah, we could
Speaker 2: we take the risk of doing that show. So I
Speaker 2: do feel sometimes that's hard, but I also get the
Speaker 2: fact that the business is tough as well.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. You know, one of the biggest risks
Speaker 1: I guess was back at Channel ten when you did
Speaker 1: bring Big Brother to Australia. I'm assuming that was sort
Speaker 1: of hard to get across the line at the time.
Speaker 1: But looking at some of those headlines of where Big
Speaker 1: Brother went, can you unpack the Turkey slab for us,
Speaker 1: because you know, a lot was happening in the control
Speaker 1: room that night and I've heard that you watched it
Speaker 1: sort of as it unfolded. How was that moment for
Speaker 1: you and what did that mean for television?
Speaker 2: It was clearly unfortunate. What was interesting about that was
Speaker 2: we actually didn't put it to air, so it sort
Speaker 2: of ran on the sort of premium service streaming that
Speaker 2: never actually went to air. But obviously the horse had bolted,
Speaker 2: as I say, and away it went. And it was
Speaker 2: sort of one of those moments that he went, Oh
Speaker 2: my god, what does this actually mean? And Tim Kluchus,
Speaker 2: who was the EP for me at the time, called
Speaker 2: me up. I was actually literally jumping on a plane
Speaker 2: to go on a mid year break with the family
Speaker 2: for a week in Fiji, and the doors were about
Speaker 2: to close, and he said, I've got something to tell you,
Speaker 2: and I said, I've just got one question before the
Speaker 2: door closes. What the hell's a turkey flat? And because
Speaker 2: I had I had no idea, But you know, we
Speaker 2: shouldn't laugh about it, but it was. It was clearly
Speaker 2: very serious at the time, and I think it was
Speaker 2: probably one of those moments that was possibly a turning
Speaker 2: point for the series. It was frustrating because other networks
Speaker 2: grabbed onto it, so you had current affair, you had
Speaker 2: a think today tonight it was running and I think
Speaker 2: for memory that was sort of they was sort of
Speaker 2: showing the footage or elements of the footage, and we
Speaker 2: didn't even show the footage, but it was a channel
Speaker 2: to that was very hard. Normally, normally in television, when
Speaker 2: a lot of things happened, they happen and they can
Speaker 2: be a benefit. That clearly was a bit. It was
Speaker 2: wrong on every level, and we acted appropriately with those
Speaker 2: that were subjected to it, those that were involved in
Speaker 2: the incident, and we acted in an appropriate way. It's
Speaker 2: just not something that we could ever support, and we
Speaker 2: were quite shocked.
Speaker 3: The incident didn't make it to television screens, nor will it.
Speaker 3: The controversy has prompted calls for the show to be axed,
Speaker 3: but Network ten and the program's producers so they remain
Speaker 3: committed to the series.
Speaker 2: You know, from there on in it sort of became
Speaker 2: harder with Big Brother, I think because of that moment
Speaker 2: and then the way we went from there. But yeah,
Speaker 2: there are moments that you feel quite sad and also
Speaker 2: empowerless really because it happened and you can't take back
Speaker 2: what happened. But we did certainly shut it down as
Speaker 2: best we can. But then there are question marks about
Speaker 2: streaming service, you know, the streaming, the content going forward
Speaker 2: and what have you. But yeah, it was. It was
Speaker 2: extremely unfortunate and.
Speaker 1: In some ways, you know, the brand was sort of refixed.
Speaker 1: I mean, Alex Mavererdicks, you know, fixed the tarnish brand
Speaker 1: and brought it back for a family friendly Channel nine version.
Speaker 1: And now we're seeing it on Channel seven in such
Speaker 1: a really different incarnation of that program. Do you think
Speaker 1: that they should have called it Big brother Coming Back?
Speaker 1: Considering that it had become so different to its original essence, we.
Speaker 2: Call it another name. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A lot of people were saying, you know, it's Survivor
Speaker 1: in a warehouse.
Speaker 2: If you had to call it Survivor in a warehouse
Speaker 2: and it wouldn't arrat it, probably, I mean there's something
Speaker 2: really the brand, no matter what it what it evolved
Speaker 2: into being, you know, Big Brothers Back.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 2: It was a great version of the show. Yeah, had
Speaker 2: it evolved? Yeah, has it evolved? And yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: it wasn't live. It didn't have the live eliminations as
Speaker 2: such in all of those moments, but it was still
Speaker 2: a well produced show.
Speaker 1: Well, it definitely works. I mean, it's Survivor and people
Speaker 1: love Survivor. I mean, Survivor is an amazing show, and
Speaker 1: I think it's a tried and tested format.
Speaker 2: All shows need to evolve. They were of a time
Speaker 2: in a moment. This is what I was saying earlier,
Speaker 2: that the basic bones of what that show is still
Speaker 2: a damn good format. So you know that there are
Speaker 2: elements of which you protect and I say, you know what,
Speaker 2: you can kind of shift it over here, because it's
Speaker 2: not necessary to do that way anymore. So it would
Speaker 2: have been a more cost effective model, arguably, clearly, but
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that it wasn't less engaging. You absolutely
Speaker 2: would always call it Big Brother because that's that's the
Speaker 2: heritage of it, and that was the affection of it.
Speaker 2: But you can always tweak and evolve and pivot in
Speaker 2: certain directions with any format, but you wouldn't certainly change
Speaker 2: the name.
Speaker 1: Why do you think digital is now so important? You know,
Speaker 1: if you're looking in the landscape of programming nowadays, you know,
Speaker 1: look at Love Island for an example. People are looking
Speaker 1: for content in different ways. So yeah, why do you
Speaker 1: think that digital is so important.
Speaker 2: Fundamental now to the success of any broadcaster. I mean,
Speaker 2: at the moment you're seeing some extraordinary numbers on VVOD.
Speaker 2: I mean we're seeing some numbers through on a celebrity
Speaker 2: and they're the live streaming is now up some one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty percent or whatever it is year on year.
Speaker 2: Arguably probably a small base, but it's just growing. It's
Speaker 2: now all about how you can still find content that
Speaker 2: provides you oblity to get those big numbers on free
Speaker 2: to air but then can also have a major play
Speaker 2: in VIVO and building that business. I'm not on the
Speaker 2: broadcast side anymore, but arguably the conversations that you know
Speaker 2: I've had with the broadcast is that that's just of
Speaker 2: equal value. Now. The revenue is not there yet, but
Speaker 2: through vos and with those ten down what they're developing up,
Speaker 2: you're going to see how they all about to monetize
Speaker 2: that side of the business. Really well, what we've done
Speaker 2: at ITV in the UK is actually changed the very
Speaker 2: business model or the model of how ITV operates, and
Speaker 2: it's very much sort of an on demand lead that
Speaker 2: is multifaceted, so it's not just free to air. First
Speaker 2: it could be on demand lead, the free to wear portal,
Speaker 2: and then a hub portal and then whatever it is.
Speaker 2: So it's the way we create content now that doesn't
Speaker 2: necessarily just have a free to wear lens through it,
Speaker 2: and that might be from a scripted point of view
Speaker 2: or even from a nonscripted point of view. It's the
Speaker 2: term that Kevinligo in the in the UK, who is
Speaker 2: the director of content at ITV, it's that I've got
Speaker 2: to know what's underneath the floorboards. So you leave that
Speaker 2: moment where you go, what's under the floorboards. I've got
Speaker 2: to find out because in the streaming world that's what's
Speaker 2: expected now with the way they produce content in ten seconds,
Speaker 2: in eight seconds and seven seconds, you're about to see
Speaker 2: the next episode. I muzzle hang around and what's the
Speaker 2: next episode? To see what's under the floorboards?
Speaker 1: Yes, people are obsessed with that.
Speaker 2: So there's a there's a conversation now around the way
Speaker 2: you produce the content that doesn't necessarily just speak to
Speaker 2: self contained. I'm talking about scripted now self contained one
Speaker 2: hour a week, you've got to waken wait another week
Speaker 2: to see that episode. That's not the shape anymore. Even
Speaker 2: ITV in the UK they will strip series across three
Speaker 2: or four days like strip dramas, and that's quite unique
Speaker 2: and they're having some great success. I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know about you, but I'd be enormously frustrated when you
Speaker 2: know Billions comes up on stand, I've got to wait
Speaker 2: a week to see the next episode. I want to
Speaker 2: watch it now. And so for the broadcast is now
Speaker 2: it's about okay, we've got to protect the free to
Speaker 2: wear business. We've got to build the beaver business because look,
Speaker 2: I've got kids, and I've got a grandchild. And my
Speaker 2: kids now are in there from their mid thirties down
Speaker 2: to mid twenties plus a grandchild. It's hard to get
Speaker 2: them to go what are you watching on free to
Speaker 2: wear nowadays? So they will thankfully, thankfully, they like I'm
Speaker 2: a Celebrity, and I like mad as Hell and a
Speaker 2: few shows that Dad makes, but not always it's hard
Speaker 2: to find their way through or they'll catch it up later.
Speaker 2: So that it's then a shift of how do you
Speaker 2: correct content that fits in that model as well? So
Speaker 2: it's a combination of both. So and when we talk
Speaker 2: to the broadcasts at the moment, they absolutely look at
Speaker 2: the BVOD play will this have a BVOD number? Will
Speaker 2: it connect with those younger audiences. There's a great show
Speaker 2: that we've just launched in the UK called the Cabins,
Speaker 2: which is another dating format. It came from the Netherlands
Speaker 2: called Let Love Rule. In the UK it's called the Cabins.
Speaker 2: So it launched an ITV too. It's the highest numbers
Speaker 2: in b VOD since Love Island. Now, the linear numbers
Speaker 2: were okay, you know, good, but where they saw the
Speaker 2: numbers was like the b VOD point of view and
Speaker 2: they're going, oh, this is fantastic because it's targeted. You
Speaker 2: can watch two or three episodes fits that demographic, younger audience.
Speaker 2: So there's definitely shows that have to and always will
Speaker 2: be purely free to airplay. But there is those that,
Speaker 2: in an ideal world, will be shows that can cut
Speaker 2: across ball and I think that's kind of the golden
Speaker 2: If you can find content that does that, then you've
Speaker 2: got a much better chance of getting a commission.
Speaker 1: Two quick questions about Love Island because I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: the show. I really like it. I've been in from
Speaker 1: the ground floor of that, but has so few monks
Speaker 1: said yes to doing it? Are we going to see
Speaker 1: so few monks hosting that show again?
Speaker 2: You know? The broadcast at nine will make that nine
Speaker 2: will want to make that announcement. I don't. As much
Speaker 2: as I love you, Ben, I don't plan on making
Speaker 2: that announcement here fair enough, whatever form that looks like.
Speaker 1: Have you found maybe the villa? As to where these
Speaker 1: you know, should I say Lovers or Islanders are going
Speaker 1: to be on the Gold Coast? I mean you've announced
Speaker 1: that it's going to be on the Gold Coast here
Speaker 1: in Australia. Have you found a location?
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure whether they're your words about the
Speaker 2: Gold Coast. I can say that it will be Queensland.
Speaker 2: I certainly can't confirm them to die the Gold Coast
Speaker 2: look truthfully, as we haven't found the billa yet. So
Speaker 2: we've got Wrecky's and we've got great support out of
Speaker 2: screen Queensland as well, so we've been working with them.
Speaker 2: They were very keen to have Love Island. There one
Speaker 2: thing about Love Island. The Australian version has performed exceptionally
Speaker 2: well in the UK exceptionally well, and so our version
Speaker 2: was in excess of a million viewers on ITV too.
Speaker 2: So to actually go to screen Queensland, it's a tourism
Speaker 2: friend to say we can showcase how beautiful Queensland is
Speaker 2: to the world because our version is shown in some
Speaker 2: thirty or forty countries, so there's a lot of benefits
Speaker 2: for it to being in Queensland. That's another big project
Speaker 2: that needs to get his head around.
Speaker 1: My last question for you is what is your go
Speaker 1: to story when entertaining friends. I'm sure you've had some
Speaker 1: fabulous dinner parties. When you look back over your career,
Speaker 1: is there any particular story that is your go to
Speaker 1: to make people laugh over dinner conversation?
Speaker 2: Okay, or maybe there's a master's chef story. So literally,
Speaker 2: it was when we decided that Big Brother had run
Speaker 2: its cause and so we needed a new format. Wasn't
Speaker 2: much around in terms of strip shows, strip formats five
Speaker 2: days a week. We looked at a lot of things
Speaker 2: we already had Biggest Loser, and I remember going into
Speaker 2: seeing the CEO of Grant Blackley, who was such a
Speaker 2: great supporter. He said, yeah, you know what, let's do this.
Speaker 2: So we then s out of the negotiations with Mark
Speaker 2: and Carl at Shine on the format, which sort of
Speaker 2: made summer headway. But you know, like anything, it takes time.
Speaker 2: It takes time. It takes time, and literally I was
Speaker 2: only days away from doing the upfronts where you showcase
Speaker 2: all your big new shows for the year. We'd canceled
Speaker 2: Big Brother. I didn't have Master's chef and we're literally
Speaker 2: only days away, and I'm going, oh my god, and
Speaker 2: I remember Carl and I and Carl won't mind me
Speaker 2: telling this story, we literally hung up the phone not
Speaker 2: agreeing to do the show. We weren't going to get there.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't a creative compensation. It was about the deal,
Speaker 2: the terms and all that sort of stuff. And I
Speaker 2: respect them enormously, don't get me wrong, But it was
Speaker 2: just one of those conversations I have and I h
Speaker 2: the phone, I went, holy shit, I've got two days
Speaker 2: I'm doing these upfronts. And then I was running late.
Speaker 2: I was going to Kyle's wedding, Kyle Sandalan's wedding because
Speaker 2: he's on Australia at the time, and so I sort
Speaker 2: of got my wife and we ran off. Well I
Speaker 2: could think about, with Jesus, what the hell am I
Speaker 2: going to replace Big Brother with? And I haven't got
Speaker 2: marstership and what have you? And then I think Mark
Speaker 2: and I and Carl they had another conversation, so literally
Speaker 2: then it was like the day before when we had
Speaker 2: the deal done, and then I could go to the
Speaker 2: upfronts and say, okay, well, big brother you've loved here's
Speaker 2: a new show called Marstership. And then what what made
Speaker 2: it worse was that literally we ran this little sizzle
Speaker 2: from the UK show because we hadn't we didn't have
Speaker 2: the Australian show to show them. And I did the
Speaker 2: big song and dance and now it's going to be
Speaker 2: great and it's going to be big and all that
Speaker 2: sort of suff come along for the ride, all these
Speaker 2: major media buyers. So I did the big song and dance, act,
Speaker 2: the ship and glitter as I call it, did the
Speaker 2: ship and glitter, and then literally then there was a pause.
Speaker 2: And then normally they kind of applause or clap or
Speaker 2: do something, there was literally nothing. There was silence and
Speaker 2: you could hear crickets in the room and I went, oh,
Speaker 2: well that's gone well. And no one, no one felt
Speaker 2: that it was a good self, no one felt that
Speaker 2: it was going to work. And media buyers and we
Speaker 2: couldn't get a sponsor on the show. We eventually got Coals.
Speaker 2: Cole's weren't there, and so it was like, what have
Speaker 2: I done. I've made the biggest blunder of my career potentially,
Speaker 2: And so there was you know, building up to it
Speaker 2: and then going great, I've got this show. Now I'm
Speaker 2: going to sell it into all these media buys. We're
Speaker 2: going to spend one hundreds of millions of dollars on
Speaker 2: Channel ten, and I go and sell it in and
Speaker 2: then nothing. So it was one of those moments in television.
Speaker 2: And then you know, I can tell the story now
Speaker 2: because it then became a great success. So yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was one of those moments where you start to
Speaker 2: reconsider life in general.
Speaker 1: Well you think about it, that show is still going
Speaker 1: and it is back to win was a massive success
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty for Channel ten. So that little gamble
Speaker 1: that happens, which I think you've sort of had that
Speaker 1: theme throughout our chat. You know, sometimes you need to
Speaker 1: take a gamble because some of those gambles well and
Speaker 1: truly pay off and have longevity.
Speaker 2: And you've got to have the backing of those around
Speaker 2: you as well, you know, and you've got to have
Speaker 2: the great people to produce it. So it's no easy
Speaker 2: I've often said sometimes the easy part is saying is
Speaker 2: actually it's not. But then you've got to actually realize
Speaker 2: it and bring it to life. And you know you've
Speaker 2: got a tight sphincter for a long time. Shall we say,
Speaker 2: can I say that? Is that allowed? Or is that
Speaker 2: not allowed?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always it's always allowed. Can I just say
Speaker 1: anything on this podcast? The first one I did, Alex
Speaker 1: kept swearing, and then I was like, in the edit
Speaker 1: do you know looking at the swearing thing? I got
Speaker 1: to bleep all this out, Thanks Alex, and everyone said
Speaker 1: leave it in there. They're like, the podcast medium is
Speaker 1: that we get to talk with authentic language. So, to
Speaker 1: cut a long story short, the sphincters staying.
Speaker 2: As all sphincters should, Yeah, well we need them.
Speaker 1: Without them, we'd be in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 2: Trouble. I love it. Anyway, Let's let's just stop it there.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to finish the podcast with that.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being able to be so
Speaker 1: generous with your time and have this chat. There's just
Speaker 1: there was so much for me to unpack. It'll be
Speaker 1: one of those episodes where I listened to it a couple.
Speaker 2: Of times a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.