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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, kids who have parents who are actively involved, who

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Speaker 2: are responsive, warm, nurturing, actively monitoring and.

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Speaker 3: Aware of what their kids are up to.

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Speaker 2: And by monitoring, I don't mean stalking, You're much less

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Speaker 2: likely to have kids who are going to get up

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Speaker 2: to no good or find themselves in harm's way.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. I'm here with my

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Speaker 2: wife and mum to our six kids.

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Speaker 3: Kylie.

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Speaker 2: There's a new show on Netflix, Kyli that everybody is

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Speaker 2: talking about. We haven't had a chance to watch it

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Speaker 2: properly yet, but I've watched a bit of the trailer

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Speaker 2: and I can't wait.

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Speaker 3: To get into it with the kids. The show is

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Speaker 3: called Old Enough.

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Speaker 2: In Japan, it would be called My First Errand, and

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Speaker 2: the premise of the show is that, and it's been

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Speaker 2: going for like twenty or thirty years in Japan. It's

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Speaker 2: only just to Ripe on Netflix, but it's been going

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Speaker 2: for decades in Japannel. The premise of the show is

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Speaker 2: that the film produces the TV show producers ask parents

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Speaker 2: to get their two year olds and their three year

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Speaker 2: olds to leave the house, walk outside, cross the road,

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Speaker 2: walk down the street, go to the shops, buy a

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Speaker 2: couple of grocery items, and then bring them home.

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Speaker 4: How old were the kids? On parental guidance?

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Speaker 3: Who did that? We did that with.

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Speaker 2: The youngest kids that we did that with were Sam

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Speaker 2: and Rachel's kids, Sam Friday and Rach that day, and

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Speaker 2: they had I think it was a five year old

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Speaker 2: and a seven year old, and Sam and.

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Speaker 3: Rach were freaking out.

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Speaker 2: But even the parents of older kids were a little

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Speaker 2: nervous about sending the kids down the road to the shops,

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Speaker 2: even if it was only a few hundred meters, to

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Speaker 2: buy the groceries or to pick up a leader of

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Speaker 2: milk or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And that's what this whole show is all about. And

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Speaker 3: apparently two and three year old two and three year olds,

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Speaker 3: it's adorable. It's absolutely adorable. So I thought, so, I

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Speaker 3: wasn't two.

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Speaker 4: But I remember as a five year old, yeah, walking

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Speaker 4: around the block to the corner store to pick up

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Speaker 4: milk or cream for mom at dinner time. That was

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Speaker 4: pretty young.

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Speaker 2: I funny to say that, I remember when I was

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Speaker 2: about six years old, maybe seven. My parents had bought

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Speaker 2: me this brilliant red BMX bike. I was so proud

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Speaker 2: of my I think it was like BMX three thousand

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Speaker 2: or something like that. And my grandma lived in Auburn.

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Speaker 2: For those of you who are familiar with Sydney, Auburn

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Speaker 2: today is a very different place to what it was

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies nineteen eighties when I was riding

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Speaker 2: my bike up and down Cardigan Street, but I was

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Speaker 2: asked my name, would give me a five dollar note

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Speaker 2: and say, justin, I want you to go up to

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Speaker 2: the corner store, which was, like, I don't know, it

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Speaker 2: was four or five blocks away, and I would ride

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Speaker 2: my push bike along the footpath to the corner store,

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Speaker 2: where i'd buy her a packet of Winfield Reds for

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Speaker 2: those people who don't know what Windfield Reds are because

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Speaker 2: you're that young when he reads, were the cigarettes of

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Speaker 2: choice for my grandma, or some Benson and Hedges Extra Mile,

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Speaker 2: whatever it was. And then I would buy some mixed lollies.

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Speaker 2: Twenty cents worth of mixed lollies, got you pocket full

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Speaker 2: a lot, it's full of mixed lollies. And I would

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Speaker 2: do that every other day. Not even Nane didn't ever

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Speaker 2: think that there could be anything wrong with doing that.

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Speaker 2: This was in the early nineteen eighties. Can you imagine

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Speaker 2: doing that today?

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Speaker 4: Well, even just thinking about a five year old walking

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Speaker 4: to the corner store.

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Speaker 2: In fact, just thinking of extending this. We've been living

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Speaker 2: in this airbnb while we've been trying to move house

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Speaker 2: from Brisbane to the coast, literally two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: meters from the nearby coles, got across two streets, two

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Speaker 2: busy streets to get there, and our eleven year old

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Speaker 2: has been in heaven because we've been flicking to the

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Speaker 2: credit card and saying, go get the groceries for tonight.

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Speaker 3: Here's what's on the list. She's loved it. But have

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Speaker 3: you ever sent the eleven year old with a seven

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Speaker 3: year old?

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Speaker 2: No, Wayne, That's what I'm saying, right, that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: So here we've got this TV show built on the

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Speaker 2: premise that you can send two and three year olds

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Speaker 2: to the shops or to wherever to run an errand Now,

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Speaker 2: obviously there's some cultural realities here Australia, or if you're

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand or the US and you listen to

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Speaker 2: US now, the UK, our western nations are not structured

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Speaker 2: the same way culturally as Japan. We're not cultural experts here,

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Speaker 2: but we know a handful of things about this.

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Speaker 4: Well. A few of the things that really stood out

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Speaker 4: to me was that Japanese children are actually encouraged to

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Speaker 4: say hello. There's a special greeting that they give as

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Speaker 4: they walk past people. They're encouraged to say hello to strangers.

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Speaker 2: Right, so they actively discourage the concept of stranger danger.

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Speaker 2: And what I also am aware of because I've got

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Speaker 2: a brother who lives in Japan for about a year

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Speaker 2: or so, is there's an expectation that when children are

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Speaker 2: on the street alone, that all of the adults around

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Speaker 2: them are going to act as shepherds or chaperones. They're

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Speaker 2: going to keep an eye on them, and there's like

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Speaker 2: a community expectation. I don't know if this is nationwide,

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Speaker 2: but it's certainly what my brother Tim experienced, where they're

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Speaker 2: looking out for the kids.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, Japanese cities are built on the concept that

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Speaker 4: every neighborhood should unction as a village that whole you know,

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Speaker 4: it takes a village to grow A child really comes

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Speaker 4: to play here. They surveyed fourteen countries, and Japan was

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Speaker 4: the most likely to agree with the fact that other

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Speaker 4: adults would watch out for other people's children.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: But most likely out of all did the survey that

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Speaker 2: you found, did it say who were the least likely?

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Speaker 4: Didn't? I didn't actually read that far into it. But

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Speaker 4: they'll do things like have you know, neighborhood block parties

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Speaker 4: so that they can build social networks so people aren't strangers,

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Speaker 4: they know each other.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Perfect.

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Speaker 4: But one of the things that really stood out to

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Speaker 4: me was when they surveyed these countries ten and eleven

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Speaker 4: year olds going to and from school. Yep, only fourteen

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Speaker 4: percent of Japanese kids would go with a parent.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you gotcha, yep.

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Speaker 4: As opposed to the USA, where sixty five percent of

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Speaker 4: kids ten and eleven year olds would be taken to

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Speaker 4: and from school by their parents.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So it's kind of like, off you go, kids go

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Speaker 2: to school, and so mum's the winner here, right.

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Speaker 4: Freeze everyone up. Children have freedom.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, this sense to parents, sense of autonomy, sense

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Speaker 2: of capability.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: So let's have a conversation because we're not living in

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Speaker 2: Japan and we don't have those same culture.

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Speaker 4: You're not sending my three year old to.

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Speaker 2: The shop, Well, fortunately we don't have one anymore. But

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Speaker 2: I kind of missed the three year old age actually,

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Speaker 2: but no, not going to send them to the park

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Speaker 2: or the shops on their own. But even the seven

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Speaker 2: year old, we're not sending her to the shops. Not

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Speaker 2: going to happen, And if we did in Australia, chances

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Speaker 2: are there'd be a knock on the door from somebody

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Speaker 2: saying we need to have talked to you about your parenting,

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Speaker 2: like charges might be laid, especially if it was an

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Speaker 2: ongoing pattern. We've got to talk about this conversation around parenting,

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Speaker 2: helicoptering and how much freedom.

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Speaker 3: To give your kids.

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Speaker 2: So there are laws in Australia that indicate, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to speak generally rather than getting in the nitty gritty,

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Speaker 2: that parents must provide adequate care, supervision and protection of

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Speaker 2: their children and if they don't, there will be intervention

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Speaker 2: by the authorities. So if you were to let your three, four, five,

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Speaker 2: six or seven year old to go to the shop alone,

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Speaker 2: chances are that would happen, depending on where you are.

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Speaker 3: I reckon.

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Speaker 2: In some places you could send you five, six, or

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Speaker 2: seven year old off to the shops, but most places

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Speaker 2: not even going to happen. Not a chance. So how

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Speaker 2: do we help our kids to develop freedom? How much

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Speaker 2: freedom should we give them?

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Speaker 3: When and where?

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Speaker 2: And what are the benefits of doing This will answer

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Speaker 2: those questions and more right after the break. The twenty

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Speaker 2: first century is a tricky time to be a teen girl. Alcohol, drugs,

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Speaker 2: mental health concerns, body image issues, technology, sex. Our daughters

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Speaker 2: face all these and more. The Happy Families Misconnection Summit

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Speaker 2: brings together the best modern day experts on teen girls

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Speaker 2: to show you how to stay connected with your daughter

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Speaker 2: and help her face these challenges head on. Available online

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Speaker 2: via video at a Happy Families webshop.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers. Now, I'm really curious

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Speaker 4: about this because obviously I have a really strong preference

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Speaker 4: that I'm not about to send my seven year old

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Speaker 4: to the shops on her own. But there's also this

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Speaker 4: intrigue around the idea of allowing our children enough autonomy

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Speaker 4: for them to grow and to learn in a safe environment.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about these advantages. Research shows that when

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Speaker 2: we hover over our children, when we become helicopter parents,

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Speaker 2: when we make decisions for them and don't give them

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Speaker 2: the scope to experience that freedom, the volition, the autonomy,

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Speaker 2: what happens is a couple things. Number One, they don't

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Speaker 2: develop competence. Like as parents, our job is to effectively

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Speaker 2: make ourselves redundant in so many roles when it comes

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Speaker 2: to raising children. We don't want to continue to have

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Speaker 2: to help them to cross the road or get to

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Speaker 2: school or whatever it happens to be as they get older.

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Speaker 2: We want them to figure out how to do these

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Speaker 2: things on their own. While ever we're helicoptering and hovering,

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Speaker 2: our children aren't learning the skills necessary. They're not developing

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Speaker 2: the competence to effectively manage themselves out there in the

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Speaker 2: big wide world and what we need to be developmentally

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Speaker 2: appropriate in the extent to which we pulled back. The

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Speaker 2: best parents know that stepping back and saying give it

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Speaker 2: a go, you'll be right. Those are the ones who

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Speaker 2: generally have the kids who develop more independence.

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Speaker 3: That's healthy.

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Speaker 2: And the second major advantage, and you kind of touched

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Speaker 2: on this in your initial statement, is the sense that

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Speaker 2: I get to be in charge. Do you remember how

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Speaker 2: cool it felt to be able to make those decisions

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Speaker 2: for yourself? Do you remember the first time you did

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Speaker 2: walk around the block on your own, or you did

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Speaker 2: go to the park on your own. You feel like

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Speaker 2: you're a big person. And that's so important from a

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Speaker 2: self efficacy perspective. It helps our children to know that

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Speaker 2: they can choose for themselves and navigate the world big

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Speaker 2: big wins.

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Speaker 4: So I'm wondering how do we work out because each

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Speaker 4: child's different. So just because my eleven year old is

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Speaker 4: quite capable and competent of walking two one hundred and

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Speaker 4: fifty meters down the road to the shops doesn't mean

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Speaker 4: that another eleven year old would be in that place.

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Speaker 4: So as parents, how do we actually navigate that? How

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Speaker 4: do we work out without having some arbitrary number placed?

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Speaker 2: Well, we can't. Yeah, we can't put a number on it.

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Speaker 2: And it depends on what you're asking them to do

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Speaker 2: or what the children are asking to do. I love

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Speaker 2: the story from Lenorsknazzi, the founder of the Free Range

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Speaker 2: Kids movement who she was a journalist. She lives in

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Speaker 2: New York City, had two sons. Her nine year old

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Speaker 2: said to her, Mum, I want to catch the subway

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Speaker 2: home on my own.

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Speaker 3: It's only two stops. But you and we've been on

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Speaker 3: the New York subway. I'm not letting my nine.

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Speaker 2: Year old catch the subway on his or her own

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Speaker 2: like that. It's a pretty intimidating place.

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Speaker 4: But again, we're talking culturally, right, So this child has

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Speaker 4: been the subway or on the subway all the time.

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Speaker 4: It's familiar territory to.

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Speaker 2: Them, precisely. Butnd and just say shut kid away, you go.

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Speaker 2: Her and her husband sat down and said, well, that

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Speaker 2: sounds like a pretty big deal, but we are excited

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Speaker 2: that you wanted to Actually, they weren't excited. Her heart

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Speaker 2: was pounding. But they talked about getting on at this stop,

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Speaker 2: getting off it that stop. Here's the money, here's what

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Speaker 2: you do if you get stuck, here's who you go

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Speaker 2: to for help. They walked him through the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: pre armed him ahead of time, and then said, okay,

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Speaker 2: so let's do it this Sunday morning or this weekend

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is. She wrote the article after it

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Speaker 2: had happened, and it was published in one of the

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Speaker 2: papers in the New York area, and she became a

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Speaker 2: global sensation known as the world's worst mum for letting

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Speaker 2: the nine.

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Speaker 3: Year old do that.

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Speaker 2: So clearly, in Japan it wouldn't be seen as such

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Speaker 2: a bad thing. But in the United States, and I

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Speaker 2: guess in Australia.

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Speaker 4: It's sixty ten year olds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly getting a ride with mom and dad.

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Speaker 2: But I think the critical thing here is her son

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Speaker 2: said can I And as parents, when our kids ask

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Speaker 2: us if they can to the extent that it's possible,

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Speaker 2: we want to say yes.

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Speaker 4: So what about the parent who's going, Okay, my ten

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Speaker 4: year old's come and he's asked me to do this.

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Speaker 4: If I let him do that, what's going to be

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Speaker 4: the next thing he's going to ask? And do I

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Speaker 4: find myself providing him with freedoms that are just more

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Speaker 4: and more uncomfortable and unsafe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because there is that risk if we're not

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Speaker 2: involved in their lives enough, if we're not monitoring, if

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Speaker 2: they're just out there roaming the streets, they're going to

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Speaker 2: become juvenile delinquents. Again, when we look at what research shows,

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Speaker 2: the kids who have parents who are actively involved, who

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Speaker 2: are responsive, warm nurturing, who are monitoring, actively monitoring, and

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Speaker 2: aware of what their kids are up to. And by monitoring,

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Speaker 2: I don't mean stalking looking over the kids shoulder saying

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Speaker 2: what are you doing? Now?

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Speaker 3: Where are you going?

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Speaker 2: I mean monitoring as in, I know you said that

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Speaker 2: you wanted to go for a play down at the park.

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Speaker 2: Who are you going to be with? What are you

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Speaker 2: going to be doing when we be home? How can

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Speaker 2: I contact you? What will you do if there's a problem.

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Speaker 2: That kind of thing, You're much less likely to have

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Speaker 2: kids who are going to get up to no good

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Speaker 2: or find themselves in harm's way. It's true, of course

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Speaker 2: that sometimes some kids will use that freedom to push

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Speaker 2: the boundaries, but the majority of them won't.

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Speaker 3: The majority of them will appreciate the trust because we

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Speaker 3: have that higher level of involvement as well.

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Speaker 2: Now it's not helicoptering, it's involvement, and that's the critical word.

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking now about. You know, back in the day,

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Speaker 4: our day, our parents didn't have mobile phones, Like literally

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Speaker 4: we went off to the shops and they just had

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Speaker 4: to hope and pray that we were going to come back.

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Speaker 4: Our kids now pretty much will leave our front door

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Speaker 4: with a mobile phone. We have tracking apps that we

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Speaker 4: can kind of track where they are at all times.

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Speaker 4: We can ring them on a whim. We have so

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Speaker 4: much more convenience at our fingertips to allow our kids

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Speaker 4: to have freedoms that we clearly had when we were younger,

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Speaker 4: but the stress levels of our parents would have been

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Speaker 4: significantly more.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes people will say, but what if something happens. Surely

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Speaker 2: you can't let them go and do that, because what

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Speaker 2: if something happens? But you could ask that about anything.

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Speaker 2: Should we go car today? I mean, what if something happens,

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Speaker 2: Should we catch that aeroplane and have that holiday we've

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Speaker 2: been waiting for for a couple of years because of

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Speaker 2: COVID Now that we've got borders open again, what if

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Speaker 2: something happens? Should I go surfing? Should I go for

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Speaker 2: that bike ride? Should I? It doesn't matter what you choose.

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Speaker 2: Something might happen, and if we live into that, it's

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Speaker 2: an unhealthy way to live. We need to remember what

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Speaker 2: is developmentally appropriate for our children. But if our children

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Speaker 2: are asking, and if we can provide appropriate supervision. Let's see,

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Speaker 2: your child does want to walk to school on their own,

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Speaker 2: maybe for the first two weeks you let them, but

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Speaker 2: you walk fifty meters behind them, or one hundred meters

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Speaker 2: behind them and just make sure that they can cross

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Speaker 2: the road safely. Maybe you actually let them decide when

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Speaker 2: it's time to cross the road while you're standing beside

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Speaker 2: them for the first five times, and as they've proven it,

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Speaker 2: then you can stand ten meters back and give them

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Speaker 2: just enough rope so they feel like they're acting independently.

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Speaker 2: It's how we raise independent, competent children, and I reckon

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Speaker 2: this TV show is great for encouraging parents to start

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Speaker 2: to consider what they can do to help their children

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Speaker 2: manage their own risks and grow up to be.

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Speaker 3: More capable as a result.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Famili's podcast is produced by Justin Roland for

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media.

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Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 2: If you want more info about how to make your

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Speaker 2: family happier, please visit us at Happy families dot com

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Speaker 2: dot au