1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Going to 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: do this intro a little differently to normal, Kylie, I 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: have a question for you. I don't normally bring you 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: in this soon, but I'm bringing you in now. My 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: question is this got Christmas in well two weeks today. 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: Would you rather that I gave you an envelope with 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: the promise of an experience or would you rather that 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: I gave you a package tied with a bow with 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: a gift inside for Christmas? Pick your preference. 10 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 2: It's a no brainer. Yep, it's experiences all the way. 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Why. 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: Firstly, I'm not a things kind of person. Material things 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: don't don't really matter to me very much, Okay, but 14 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: the anticipation of knowing I get guaranteed time with you 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: doing something new or exciting is the best. That's better 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: than anything. 17 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Today on the pot we talk about the way to 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: give the perfect gift. Is it an experience? Is it 19 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: a thing? What does the research show There is quite 20 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: a lot of research in this area. And how how 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: in the world are we supposed to understand the science 22 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: of gift giving in a developmental framework so that we 23 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: can make sure that we're giving the right stuff for 24 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: the right person for the right reasons, that's going to 25 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: maximize their happiness on Christmas Day. Stay with us, that's next. Hi, 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Family podcast, where you get real 27 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day on the streets most downloaded 28 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: parenting podcasts, where Justin and Kylie Colson. Kylie, let's talk 29 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: about this conversation around gift giving, because will you use 30 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: that word maximize maximize happiness on Christmas Day? 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 2: And I've never thought about it, but you're a maximizer. 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: Maximal maximize are what makes you say that? What have 33 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: you seen? 34 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: You're always trying to maximize your time, your energy, how 35 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: you spend your time with others. 36 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: There's a name for this, what is it? 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: Extra extra? 38 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: Yeah? I was going to go back to my nineteen 39 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: eighties name actually, but the twenty twenty five version of 40 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: it is extra Yeah. The name for it is type 41 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 1: A maybe. Yeah, I'm a little which is an extra right, 42 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: So today on the pod, let's talk about it. I 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: mean a number of years ago, probably ten or twelve 44 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: years ago now, could have even been more. It might 45 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: be fifteen. A couple of researchers, one from the University 46 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: of British Columbia in Canada. Her angel is Done and 47 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: a Harvard co author, Michael Norton, co authored Happy Money 48 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: The Science are Smart a Spending and they published research 49 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: in the journal Science that showed that people are happy 50 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: when they spend money on others versus themselves. Now I 51 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: actually do this. In one of my presentations, I asked 52 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: for four volunteers. They come up to the front of 53 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: the room. How I used to do this with cash. 54 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: I think I'm going to start doing it with cash again. 55 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: I've been doing it with chocolates for the last year 56 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: or two, but cash is more fun. And what I 57 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: would do is, I'd say to the first person, hey, 58 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: here's five dollars, or here's a chocolate bar. Either either 59 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: I'd say here's the or here's the chocolate bar, and 60 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: it's all yours. Just because you're volunteered, I just want 61 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: to give it to you. How awesome is that? And 62 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: do you know not one person ever looked at me 63 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: and said that they were upset about it. Everybody who's like, like, 64 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: getting cash or getting a chocolate from somebody makes you 65 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: feel happy. But the rule is you're not sharing with everyone. 66 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: This is yours. And then I would go to the 67 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: second volunteer and say I'd give them exactly the same thing, 68 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: either five bucks or a chocolate bar, and I would say, 69 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: this is for you in the same way that I 70 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: gave volunteer number one the same thing. But there's a catch. 71 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: It's not actually for you. I want you to spend 72 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: that five dollars on someone else, or I want you 73 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: to give that chocolate bar to someone else, at which 74 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: point everyone in the crowd go big man. I'd say, no, 75 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: kick your hands down. They're going to give it somebody 76 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: later at home. It's not for anyone in the room. 77 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: And then I would ask the question who do you 78 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: think is going to be happier? Who do you think 79 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: is going to be happier? And people would vote. So, 80 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I've given you zero information about today's podcast. 81 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: I've done all the prep on this one. You're literally 82 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: here as a passenger, so I can quiz you the 83 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: way that I am right now. What would you imagine 84 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: the crowd would choose who's going to be happier out 85 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: of the person that's got the five dollars of the 86 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: chocolate bar for themselves versus the person that's got the 87 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: five dollars of the chocolate bar to give away. 88 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: M I would depend on I think it would depend 89 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: on the age group that you were with, But I 90 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: would say that generally people would think that having the 91 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: chocolate bar all the money for themselves would make them happier. 92 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting you say that, because often people will 93 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: will literally say that. They'll be like, oh, yeah, the 94 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: chocolate like or the five bucks. What are you going 95 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: to spend five dollars on someone? Just just have it. 96 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: But what I've discovered over time is that more and 97 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: more people are sort of going, no, no, no. When you 98 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: give it away, you do feel better. So what I 99 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: do next, Kylie, is I pull out a twenty dollars 100 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: node or sometimes even a fifty dollars node, depending on 101 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: what I've got. Two of these costs me a lot, 102 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: so I'm a little bit stingy about it sometimes. But 103 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: either pull out a twenty or a fifty and I 104 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: give it to volunteer number three and I say, hey, 105 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: guess what this is what I'm giving to you, And 106 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: the whole crowd goes, oh, they can't believe that there's 107 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: a pineapple or a fifty dollars out there, or even 108 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: a twenty or I pull out one of the big, 109 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: big boxes of mixed chocolates, you know, like the really 110 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: expensive big ones, and the whole rug goes oh. And 111 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: I look at them. I say, this is for you 112 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: only you. I either want you to spend this money 113 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: on yourself if I'm giving them cash, or I want 114 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: you to eat these just keep them in your top drawer. 115 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: They're not for sharing. They're for you to take a 116 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: moment of pleasure every time you need it. Right, So 117 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: this is a purely selfish gift. And Volunteer number three 118 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: is just going, oh, my goodness, have I scored today 119 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: or what? And I kind of laugh and I'm like, 120 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: who do you? Reckon is looking happy now hah. And 121 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: then I go to volunteer number four, same I give 122 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: them the same twenty or fifty bucks or I give 123 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: them the same big box of chocolates, and I say, but, 124 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: like Volunteer number two, you're going to give this away. 125 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: You're not going to give the person cash, but you're 126 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: going to go and spend the cash on something for someone, 127 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 1: or you're going to share these chocolates with someone again. 128 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: And everyone in the room is like share them with me, 129 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: Like no, no, no, it's not anyone in the room, Like, 130 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: think about somebody that you really want to make an 131 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: impact in their life and do it that way. And 132 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: then I ask the crowd again, Okay, who's going to 133 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: be happiest this time? So what would you imagine the 134 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: response is when we're talking about a bigger box of 135 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: chocolates or a bigger summer money. 136 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: I think it's still the same. 137 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: You think that the person who gets to keep it 138 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: for themselves, people would vote that they'll be the happiest. Ye, 139 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: So there are always some people in the room who 140 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: do vote that way, but the majority consistently. I think 141 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: that teachers have had enough well being education now to know. 142 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: But the majority of people start to say, oh, when 143 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: you give stuff away, you actually giving things away is 144 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: joy multiplied? 145 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: So is that because five dollars is kind of me 146 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,559 Speaker 2: You can't do much with five dollars, but with fifty 147 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: you can. 148 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: Well that this is where it gets really interesting, because 149 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: what I'll do then is I'll ask Volunteer number one 150 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: and Volunteer A number three to sit down and I say, 151 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: you go and be miserable with your chocolate. You're going 152 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: to be miserable with your money. And everyone laughs, and 153 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: I'll say, all right, so we've got volunteer number two 154 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: and volunteer number four. One of them's got five bucks 155 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: or fifty and the other one's got fifty or one 156 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: of them's got a small chocolate and one of them's 157 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: got a big box of chocolates, and they're giving it away. 158 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: And I'll say, all right, you guys have voted that 159 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: out of the two pairs, the two like forul like pairs, 160 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: the people giving it away are going to be the happiest. 161 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: That's what the overwhelming vote was. But now we've got 162 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: somebody with a big thing to give away and someone 163 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: with a little thing to give away. And then I 164 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: asked the question again, who's going to be happiest? How 165 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: would you respond? 166 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: I don't think it matters. I don't think it matters 167 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: whether it's five dollars or fifty dollars. 168 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: So this one's always more provocative. There are some people 169 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: who are like, oh no, it hurts to give something 170 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: bigger away, like that's hard, but it also feels awesome 171 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: when you do it. And then there are some people 172 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: who are like, oh no, you kind of feel stingy 173 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: when you're giving the little thing away, So there's a 174 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: little bit of a mix, but generally the answer that 175 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: I get overwhelmingly is what you just said. And my 176 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: response to that is, it's not what you give, it's 177 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: that you give that makes you happy. So Kylie, I'm 178 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: sharing that because Liz Done and Michael and Milton they 179 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: did a variety of experiments and studies aligned with those 180 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: kinds of ideas, and it's really fun to watch it 181 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: play out. But there's more to it than that. I 182 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: know you want to share something that I can see 183 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: it on the tip of your tongue. 184 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: So the other day, our daughter asked if she could 185 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: gift her teachers something for Christmas. And I had some 186 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: chocolates and I wrapped them up and made them look pretty, 187 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: and she said, I really want to do something more 188 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: than chocolates. She said, I know that they can't get 189 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: through a day without a coffee. She said, do you 190 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: think we could go and get some coffeevouchers? And I 191 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: said that's fine. So we went down we got some coffeevouchers. 192 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: Can I tell you it was just one coffee. It 193 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: was just a free coffee with some chocolates. I actually 194 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: got an email from one of the teachers. He's never 195 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: in all of his teaching career received a gift from 196 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: a student. 197 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: That's the first thing. 198 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: But secondly, he was so taken by the one free coffee. 199 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: It was cost me six dollars. He was so taken 200 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: that I would go out of my way to give 201 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: tim something that it just was blown away. This email 202 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: just lit me up. 203 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: You never told me about this. I'm sitting here almost 204 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: hearing you tell this story, and it gave him. 205 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: An opportunity to tell it. He just said, he literally 206 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: the words were, your daughter has been the gift this year. 207 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: Oh wow, all right, there's a little bit of a 208 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: little bit of flex there as well. While we're telling 209 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: this story about how generous we are. Oh my goodness. 210 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: It's the reason I share it is because it was 211 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: such a simple act. It's five dollars. It's six dollars. 212 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: It's not like I spent. 213 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: You didn't send him to a wiff one hundred dollars. 214 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: Or gave him an experience. His experience will be having 215 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: a hot cover. Yeah, but it filled him, but it 216 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: filled me in doing it without the email. It was 217 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: just a really lovely thing to do. 218 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you shared that after the break, we're 219 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: going to talk about Now that we know that giving 220 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: makes us feel good, what does receiving feel like like? 221 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: If you've got to open up a package that somebody 222 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: is giving to you, what is the thing that's going 223 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: to make you happiest as a receiver? Especially, we just 224 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: want the kids to be happy on Christmas Day, so 225 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about it after the break. We're back. 226 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families podcast about a decade of 227 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: research shows that it's much nicer. Well. In fact, centuries 228 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: of common wisdom says that it's better to give than 229 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: to receive. But Michael Norton and has Done's research also 230 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: shows this buying experiences like trips and concerts and special 231 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: meals makes people happier than material things. 232 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: That's because it costs more than five bucks. 233 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: Whether you when you equalize things and make everything the same. 234 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: Both correlational and experimental studies have shown that people who 235 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: spend money on others report more happiness, and material things 236 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: don't bring as much happiness as experiences. 237 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 2: I have one gift that was tied up with a 238 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: bow that you gifted me. We'd been married for about 239 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 2: seven years, right, and no matter how long we've been married, 240 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: it is still hands down my absolute favorite and every 241 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: time I open it, it just fills me with joy. 242 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: And it is it's a box of hand cut heart Oh. 243 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: My goodness, I did like fifty you did fifty fifty 244 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: things I love about you, and I typed them up 245 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: on hearts and then I had to cut them out 246 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: by hand. I swear to me like four days. 247 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: But not only did you cut them out, you layered them. 248 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: You used vellum. 249 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. That's the seat 250 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: through paper, on top of. 251 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: The on top of the pretty cardol the go, and 252 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 2: then you use brads to stick them together. 253 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: Are us what's theore little heart shaped things that you 254 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: push through the hole. 255 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: That's right? 256 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, okay, So I mean sometimes gifts 257 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: do matter, right, But that's not a materialistic gift. No. 258 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: I was going to say to me, that's actually an experience. 259 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because you sit there and you open them 260 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: and read. Yes, yeah, yep. So I want to talk 261 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: about the developmental realities of what this research means. Okay, 262 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: giving versus receiving. Giving feels better, right or does it? 263 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: It depends how old you are in some ways. 264 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you're young. 265 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: You just want to open stetes. 266 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: That's right. The idea of giving away. 267 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: And experiences or things, well, again it depends on your age. 268 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: So we're almost out of time. We've talked too long 269 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: just about all the other stuff, and I want to 270 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: go through this fairly quickly with you. So chaplain colleagues 271 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: did four studies with kids aged three to seventeen. They 272 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: published it in the International Journal of Research in Marketing, 273 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: and they used the child Development Framework to understand how 274 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: how development and cognition, particularly memory and ability to understand 275 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: the emotional states of others, impacts the way that gifts 276 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: work on a day like Christmas Day. And here's what 277 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: they found with kids aged zero to two. Well, let 278 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: me ask you this, because again I haven't told you 279 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: what's coming. Would you think that zero to two year olds. 280 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: We've got a granddaughter who's just turned two. Okay, she's 281 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: not three yet, so she still fits in that zero 282 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: to two category. It's up to the age of three. 283 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: Do you think that she's more excited about getting or 284 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: giving are getting? You would be wrong, You'd be wrong. 285 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: The research shows that totles exhibit greater happiness when giving 286 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: treats to others than receiving treats themselves. Children are happier 287 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: after engaging in costly gift giving forfeiting their own resources 288 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: than when giving the same treat at no cost, according 289 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: to the researchers, I think that's fascinating, which I think 290 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: just highlights that innately we are pro social, we are 291 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: supposed to be generous. I just love that. Okay, three 292 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: to twelve year olds three to twelve year olds, young children? 293 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: Do they want to give or receive received? No, they do? 294 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: And do they want to receive material things or experiences materials? 295 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: Oh? They do. 296 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: The researchers said this, goods are much more concrete and 297 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: require less reasoning about intention on mental states compared to experiences. 298 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to think about what you were thinking 299 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: when you got this thing for me. I don't want 300 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: to have to imagine what it's going to be like, 301 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: anticipating that we're going to do that thing in three months. 302 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: I just want to open this thing and be excited 303 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: about about it now. And now I've opened it, I 304 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: want another thing to open so I can be excited 305 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: about that as well. The research has found that young 306 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: children clearly indicate the material goods give them more pleasure. 307 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: It's important to understand. They say that even young children 308 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: derive happiness from their experiences. However, when the event is passed, 309 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: their thoughts are more dominated by the material gifts or 310 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: souvenirs they can see in touch, which is kind of 311 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: annoying for us because we're trying to make this meaningful 312 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: for reeconds. But they don't care. They don't want meaning, 313 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: They just want materialism. Okay, this one's where it gets interesting. 314 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: Thirteen to seventeen year olds adolescence. What do you think 315 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: experiences or things? 316 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: I think it's a mix. 317 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, because their cognitions are becoming more sophisticated. Yeah, the 318 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: research actually shows that they're probably going to be a 319 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: little bit more disappointed when they open up the experience 320 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: and find out they've got to wait, but they'll love 321 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: it more. They'll they'll enjoy it more, and they'll remember 322 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: it more and they'll have all those good feelings. So 323 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: you mentioned it in the intro. There's this idea that, oh, oh, 324 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: you kind of alluded to it. You didn't mention it specifically, 325 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: but there's this idea when when you open up up 326 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: a gift and it's experience on Christmas Day. You've had 327 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: all the anticipation leading up to Christmas Day, which makes 328 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: you excited about opening the gift. And you open it 329 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: and there's actually a little b of a letdown. It's like, oh, 330 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: I don't have something right now. But then you see 331 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: the gift, You're like, it's happening in February or April 332 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. Oh, and now you've got another 333 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: couple of months to look forward to it. So the 334 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: anticipation builds again, and then you have the experience. It's 335 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: a joint experience, so you get to do it with 336 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: somebody else and that's wonderful. Oh my goodness, so good. 337 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: And then you've got the memory as well. And so 338 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: experiences work better on a range of complex ways different domains. 339 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: Experiences work better. But your kids have got to be 340 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: old enough to be able to experience the joy ongoingly. 341 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: That is pretty much what the research shows about how 342 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,479 Speaker 1: to give great gifts. 343 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: So what are we doing this year? 344 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: We're giving tangible or experience all the stuff. Ho ho 345 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: Monkey had this great experience as a family of great experience. 346 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we had our moment, but it was a 347 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: great experience and created the memories. So that's that's that. 348 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: But I really, I mean we're working hard on shifting 349 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: the focus towards more experiences, and I think as time 350 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: goes by and as our kids get older, they become 351 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: much more meaningful. Anyway, that's the psychology of Christmas gift giving. 352 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: We hope that you've enjoyed the podcast and gotten heaps 353 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: of ideas out of it, and we hope that you 354 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: can get a refund on everything that you've wropped up 355 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: and put underneath the tree. The Happy Families podcast is 356 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides research, 357 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: admen and other support, and you can get more information 358 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: and resources about making your family happier at happy families 359 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: dot com dot au