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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers.

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Speaker 1: Now, Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Colson. I love it when we get our

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Speaker 1: listener questions. You can send them through podcasts at happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com. Today you that's podcasts with an s

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Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot you. We've got an

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Speaker 1: email here from Amy. She says, how do I manage

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Speaker 1: the juggle when returning to work as a mum of

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Speaker 1: a two year old and seven year old with high

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Speaker 1: emotional needs. I've got no idea how to work a

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Speaker 1: routine in, but we can't afford not to have me

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Speaker 1: back at work, Amy, I mean, you hear that, and

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Speaker 1: just I kind of go ouch, right, Because the cost

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Speaker 1: of living is going up. Everybody's aware of it. It's

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Speaker 1: getting harder and harder and harder as the Reserve Bank

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Speaker 1: continues to increase interest rates. And there's a whole economic

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Speaker 1: argument around this that the people who can least afford

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Speaker 1: it are the ones who are most impacted by it.

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Speaker 1: There's so many other different ways that we slowed the

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Speaker 1: economy down, but this is what they're doing, and this

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Speaker 1: is what we're all all well, sorry, a huge portion

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Speaker 1: of us are challenged by so Amy's in a hard place, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: She's got to go back to work. And when I

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Speaker 1: read something like this, I just think life's not fair

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Speaker 1: like that. It's really life is hard. You've got kids,

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Speaker 1: you want to be with them, you want to be

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Speaker 1: looking after them, and the economic reality of life means

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Speaker 1: back to work.

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Speaker 2: I want to tread really lightly with my next comments

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Speaker 2: because I don't want anyone to see me as condoning

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Speaker 2: or making a judgment call here at all. But any

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Speaker 2: decision we make around what we choose to do with

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Speaker 2: employment or stay at home requires sacrifice. So as a

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Speaker 2: stay at home mum, the sacrifice that we chose was

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Speaker 2: that you would carry the entire financial load, which at

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Speaker 2: times felt impossible, impossible, overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember when I was I was studying full

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Speaker 1: time across the week, I was working afternoons and evenings,

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Speaker 1: and I was doing furniture removals on the weekend.

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Speaker 2: At one point, you had three part time.

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Speaker 1: Jobs in addition to full time study.

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Speaker 2: Full time, and I had three little ones at home. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And the enormity of that meant that we kind of

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Speaker 2: were paupers.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we were broke at like so broke. I remember

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Speaker 1: I remember one time, do you remember this? This is

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Speaker 1: a true story. We went to the park with some friends.

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Speaker 2: I knew you were going to share this, and.

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Speaker 1: Our baby girl was really upset and we discovered that

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Speaker 1: her mouth was full of like mouth ulces or saws.

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Speaker 1: Something had happened on the inside of her mouth, and

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Speaker 1: she was just screaming she's.

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Speaker 2: Brain and getting irritable for days and we just couldn't

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Speaker 2: work out what it was. And well, we're at the park.

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Speaker 2: She obviously I was holding her differently in natural life,

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Speaker 2: and she opened her mouth and I couldn't be like,

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Speaker 2: I literally could see down her.

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Speaker 1: Throat and it was just full of saws, hundreds.

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Speaker 2: Of these little saws inside her mouth.

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Speaker 1: And so we spoke to our friends and said, we've

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Speaker 1: got to get some medical help. So they took our

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Speaker 1: eldest child home to our place. Well, we went off

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Speaker 1: to the doctor or the hospital or whatever.

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Speaker 2: We had to go to the hospital. It was a

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Speaker 2: long weekend, there was no one open, and.

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Speaker 1: So we gave the house keys and they went in.

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Speaker 2: But I was mortified knowing what they were going to

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Speaker 2: go home to because they said, don't worry, just take

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Speaker 2: as much time as you need. We'll cook Chanell some

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Speaker 2: dinner and bath her. You just take what time you need.

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Speaker 2: Just don't even think about us. And we got in

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Speaker 2: the car left to go to the hospital. While I

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Speaker 2: am obviously huge anxiety around my little baby and what

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Speaker 2: she's going through, all I could think about was the

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Speaker 2: fact that they were going to open my fridge and

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Speaker 2: my pantry and find nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like old mother Hubard, like the cupboard

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Speaker 1: was bear.

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Speaker 2: And what blew me away was that we came home

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Speaker 2: that afternoon and we had to buy medicine for Abby,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you know, spend hours at the hospital

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Speaker 2: until they worked out was here.

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Speaker 1: I think we were going for like four or five hours.

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Speaker 2: We got home, dinner had been cooked with food that

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Speaker 2: definitely was not from my pantry, and Chanel had been

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Speaker 2: bathed and she was ready for bed. And when I

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Speaker 2: opened my cupboards after they left, they had actually done

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Speaker 2: a full pantry restock. So what I'm sharing now is

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Speaker 2: not a judgment at all. But each of us makes

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Speaker 2: a decision and we have to decide and way up

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Speaker 2: what sacrifice we're willing.

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Speaker 1: To live with Yeah, there's pain either way. If you

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Speaker 1: go back to work, there's the pain of how do

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Speaker 1: I do this?

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Speaker 2: I'm leaving your children behind and knowing that their emotional

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Speaker 2: needs you can't physically meet them all the time because

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Speaker 2: you're not there.

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Speaker 1: And then there's pain if you choose not to go

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Speaker 1: to book because like, how do you feed your family?

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Speaker 1: It's such an unfair situation. And so I really love

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Speaker 1: the way that you've shared that there's no judgment here.

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Speaker 1: But I guess we're sharing this story unscripted and unintended

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Speaker 1: as it may be, because I guess we've been there,

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Speaker 1: we understand, and while we chose different to what you're choosing, Amy,

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Speaker 1: we just want to emphasize there are many families who

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Speaker 1: are doing it really tough right now, and we get it.

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Speaker 1: We've been there. Who knows, maybe in the next few

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Speaker 1: months we're going to be there again. Let's see what

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Speaker 1: the RBA does. I mean, they're not they're not being

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Speaker 1: nice to mortgage holders right now. And we happen to

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Speaker 1: have bought right when house prices were at their very

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Speaker 1: highest when we move to the coast. But I think

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Speaker 1: we need to get a little bit practical here. Let's assume,

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Speaker 1: as Amy has done, that we've got families who are

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Speaker 1: being forced back into the workforce to meet those financial

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Speaker 1: obligations as cost of living, rent, mortgages, fuel, food, everything

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Speaker 1: is just going up and up and up and up.

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Speaker 1: It's going to cost either way. I think we need

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Speaker 1: to talk about the way through it. And the first

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Speaker 1: thing that I want to emphasize Kylie, is that there's

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Speaker 1: no magic pill. There's no easy fix here. It's going

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Speaker 1: to hurt regardless of what you do, and therefore we

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Speaker 1: do the very best that we can with what we have.

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Speaker 1: Amy says that she's got two kids, two and seven

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Speaker 1: that are high needs. High needs. So when I hear that,

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Speaker 1: the very first thing that I go to in my

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Speaker 1: mind is if I've got a high needs person, my

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Speaker 1: job is not to fix them, but my job is

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Speaker 1: to make sure that they feel seen, hurt, and valued

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Speaker 1: as much as possible. It means that I want to

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Speaker 1: connect with them. It means that every chance that I get,

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Speaker 1: I want to be engaging with them in a meaningful way,

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Speaker 1: whether they're two or seven, I want to hear them.

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Speaker 1: I want to be in their world whenever I can,

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Speaker 1: because obviously I can't be there all the time, and

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Speaker 1: that means noodles of empathy and noodles of play and

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Speaker 1: making the most of those moments when you've got a

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Speaker 1: crazy schedule, maybe you work out Okay, so this is

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Speaker 1: this is what we can do in the mornings, except

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Speaker 1: when mum's not here, in which case Dad's going to

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Speaker 1: take care of her. If dad's got to take off,

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Speaker 1: maybe you can tag team, maybe not with your own parent,

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Speaker 1: but with your parents the in laws bring the village

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Speaker 1: in somehow. To me, the quality of the connection matters

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Speaker 1: most when we talk about research around resilience and kids

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Speaker 1: doing well emotionally, One really strong caring adult in their

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Speaker 1: life is all it takes. So if we can't be there,

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Speaker 1: who are the other strong caring adults that we can

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Speaker 1: bring into their world and how can we make sure

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Speaker 1: that their needs are being met.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's not a grandparent, Maybe it's a friend. Maybe

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Speaker 2: it's you know somebody else who's got children similar ages,

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Speaker 2: who is in the same boat. And maybe you know

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Speaker 2: your rosters work out that you can kind of share

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Speaker 2: the load a little bit. You have their kids, they

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Speaker 2: have your kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's with no disrespect to all the people

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Speaker 1: who are doing out of school ols care. You'd much

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Speaker 1: rather have them at their friend's house, playing in the

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Speaker 1: backyard on the trampoline and hanging out than being stuck

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Speaker 1: at school until you get to finally pick them up

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Speaker 1: when your shift ends. Obviously, we do what we have to,

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Speaker 1: and there are plenty of people who are using those

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Speaker 1: services because they have to. But I really think there's

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Speaker 1: value in being as creative as possible around this and

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Speaker 1: building the community and finding ways that you can work

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Speaker 1: with your children and their friends and their friends' parents

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Speaker 1: to lighten the load and make it an adventure, make

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Speaker 1: it exciting for the kids. The second thing that I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of to help Amy and people in that situation

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Speaker 1: is Amy mentioned routine is really hard and so.

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Speaker 2: Well shift working. She's hours all changing time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just I guess I want to get

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Speaker 1: my highlighter out and put a big line through the

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Speaker 1: word predictability, which is kind of unfair because again, with

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Speaker 1: shift work and with what's going on in Amy's life,

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Speaker 1: predictability is really hard to achieve. But to the extent

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Speaker 1: that you can create a sense of predictability, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Dad's shifts don't change, so what can happen in the

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Speaker 1: morning or what can happen in the afternoon, so that

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Speaker 1: that feels predictable.

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Speaker 2: Well, even if the predictive ability is around how Mum

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Speaker 2: leaves the house when she goes on shift. Obviously her

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Speaker 2: ships are changing all the time. But if there's predictability

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Speaker 2: around the movements that take place when she does that,

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Speaker 2: and I mean it does Mum for the ten minutes

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Speaker 2: before she leaves the house read a story to the

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Speaker 2: children before she leaves, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: That's what I It might not necessarily be at the

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Speaker 2: same time every day, but the reality is when Mum's

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Speaker 2: going to leave, I know that we're going to sit

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Speaker 2: down and have a cup of milk and read my

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Speaker 2: favorite story? Yeah, before she leaves? Or is it that

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Speaker 2: we jump on the trampoline for five minutes?

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Speaker 1: They work? They're great ideas. I really like that. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you added that.

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Speaker 2: What's number three?

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Speaker 1: So this is the last idea that I'm going to

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Speaker 1: share here. I mean, we could talk about this for

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Speaker 1: a long long time, but the last idea that I

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Speaker 1: want to share is don't sweat it too much. Kids

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Speaker 1: are extremely adaptable. They get it, they'll deal with it,

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Speaker 1: and so long as you don't become overly anxious about it,

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Speaker 1: as long as you don't turn it into a thing.

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Speaker 2: I was about to say, like your anxiety level. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they'll flow on.

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Speaker 1: If you make it a thing, it'll become a thing.

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Speaker 1: But if you just accept that this is what we're

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Speaker 1: doing now, and this is how it's going to be,

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Speaker 1: and and things like. I mean, I've talked about this

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Speaker 1: on the podcast so many times and by blog articles

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Speaker 1: and books giving them a fan to see what they

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Speaker 1: can't have in reality. And so but I don't want

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Speaker 1: you to leave, mummy. You can say, I know, sweetheart.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be awesome if there was some beautiful magic

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Speaker 1: that we could click our fingers and I could stay

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Speaker 1: here forever and I could never ever leave you even

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Speaker 1: when you're eighty, and I could still and turn it

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Speaker 1: into something really big and turn it into a story

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Speaker 1: and an adventure. Lots of empathy, but a clear limit.

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Speaker 1: Don't you just wish? Wouldn't it be great? But I

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Speaker 1: have to go. But let's make it really fun. Let's

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Speaker 1: read that chapter. Let's jump on the trampoline, Let's walk

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Speaker 1: to the end of the driveway and wave. Let's whatever

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Speaker 1: the process is when mum's heading off to work. Create

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Speaker 1: that and don't make a big deal about the fact

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Speaker 1: that this is what life is right now. It just is,

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Speaker 1: and therefore because it is, it is.

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Speaker 2: I remember when Emily started at ken for the very

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Speaker 2: first time, and we had to say goodbye, and there

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Speaker 2: was a little book. I don't remember the book. I

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Speaker 2: obviously didn't wasn't there to read it, but they shared

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Speaker 2: it with the kids and they got all the parents

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Speaker 2: to give the kids a kiss on the inside of

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Speaker 2: their hands, and then they closed up their hands as

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Speaker 2: we left, and then the book obviously talked to them

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Speaker 2: about the fact that they had mummies kiss with them

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Speaker 2: wherever they went. And I just remember Emily coming home

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Speaker 2: and showing me her hand at the end of the

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Speaker 2: day and telling me that she'd carried my kiss with

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Speaker 2: her everywhere she went. And so as you were talking,

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking about these little kids and how

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Speaker 2: you know their need for predictability and routine and structure it.

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Speaker 2: And maybe it's a little soft toy or a blankie

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Speaker 2: or something that they only get when mum leaves so

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Speaker 2: they have a piece of mum. Maybe it's you know,

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Speaker 2: she's super creative. She might make something out of an

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Speaker 2: old T shirt or something so it smells like her,

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Speaker 2: Just something little that they know they only get when

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Speaker 2: Mum's not there, just to feel like they're close to her.

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Speaker 1: We really hope that this has been useful. One last tip.

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Speaker 1: If you've listened to this podcast episode and you're doing fine,

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Speaker 1: You've got enough money in the bank, the interest rate

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Speaker 1: hikes aren't bothering you, and Nora is the increased cost

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Speaker 1: of living. And you're doing fine, but you know somebody

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Speaker 1: who is doing it tough. Maybe Mum has to go

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Speaker 1: back to work in addition to dad. Can I recommend

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Speaker 1: that you reach out to them and just say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I know that this is tricky. How can I Can

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Speaker 1: I help with pickups? Can I help with the babysitting?

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Speaker 1: Can I help with the mornings? Can I do something

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Speaker 1: to be involved in your life, even if it's just

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Speaker 1: one morning a week or one afternoon a week. What

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Speaker 1: can I do to help? Because I care about you.

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Speaker 1: I just think about that family, that couple who helped

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Speaker 1: us that time, and I don't think we'll ever forget

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Speaker 1: their kindness. It was just a grocery shop and they

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Speaker 1: were doing very very well. Financially, So for them a

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Speaker 1: couple of hundred bucks on groceries and probably nothing. But

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Speaker 1: for us, I mean it's still the beauty of that

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Speaker 1: gift is incalculable. It still moves me today, So maybe

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Speaker 1: there's a way that you can help as well. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more information about

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Speaker 1: how you can make your family happier, emailers podcasts at

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Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot au or check out happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com dot au