1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers Now. On the Happy 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Families Podcast, we tackle some tricky topics from time to time, 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: and today is one of those days. 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: Hello. 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: My name is docs Justin Coulson. I'm delighted to introduce 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: to you today the author of the well known rhyme 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: time books, somebody named lely Loptera. That is of course 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: a pen name, a pseudonym, but lellly Loptera has a 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: brand new book out that we really think is worthy 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: of some discussion and some exploration in today's podcast. According 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: to publishers who won't publish the book because of the 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: subject matter, it is a new, flawless, almost perfect children's book. 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: The book is called My Brother Born Sleeping. I think 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: that I might struggle to get through this in because 16 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: I'm getting weepy just introducing the author in the name 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: of the book. By now you probably know what it's about, 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: so I will just share a quick content warning that 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: some families may have been through some trauma around this, 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: or may have young children who may not understand what 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about, and parent advisory may be 22 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: advised for our conversation about miscarriage and still born babies. Today, 23 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: Lellly Lotta is a mum to three kiddos, one who 24 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: didn't survive pregnancy, and Lely joins me. Right now, Lely, 25 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: tell me about your family, particularly your baby who didn't 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: make it to be with us. 27 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,639 Speaker 2: Now. So, I was very young when I lost my baby. 28 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: I lost my baby, I lost my ovary, I lost 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: my relationship all at the same time. And I think 30 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: because of how I had become pregnant, people kept telling 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: me how lucky I was, and certainly during that time, 32 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: I didn't feel lucky at all, quite the opposite. And 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: I went to pieces, absolutely went to pieces, and rightly 34 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: so because I was allowed to go to pieces, because 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: I was on my own, I was young, I was 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: able to grieve in a way that was comfortable for me. 37 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: But then, years later, when my sister went through a 38 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: still born she had two kids already, and watching her 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 2: trying to keep it together, when I knew in my 40 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: heart how much she was grieving, how devastated she was, 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: and trying to be strong for her, her kids, her 42 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: niece and her nephew, it was unbelievably challenging to try 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 2: and support her during that and I had my kids 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: asking questions, and she had her kids, my niece and nephew. 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: That everyone had a different say, a different reason behind 46 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: what had happened. And my experience influenced how I had 47 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: those conversations with my children and how involved my children 48 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: were in that process and asking those questions. And children 49 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 2: want to explore subjects naturally, they're just naturally curious little creatures. 50 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: And when a subject is hard to speak about, and 51 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: when you're going through that grieving process, then shutting kids 52 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: down isn't helpful for either the kids or the parents. 53 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: And this book was written as a way of trying 54 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: to start those conversations as a family about when a 55 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: baby is born sleeping, why that might be. It's not 56 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: a medical tone, it's not a cure al. It's just 57 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: a conversation starter so that people can have those conversations 58 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: around how is the best to grieve as a family. 59 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: Lily, let's zoom all the way out for just a second. 60 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: How common is still birth? How common is miscarriage? 61 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: So still there's over two million babies around the around 62 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: the world that are born sleeping every year, and there's 63 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: over five thousand just in Australia every year. Miscarriage is 64 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: one of those statistics that's very very difficult to pinpoint. 65 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: It's estimated it being eight to ten times more than 66 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: what still birth is, but there's a lot of data 67 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: around it. It may be much more than that because 68 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: people suffer in silence, they don't seek medical attention, or 69 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: the medical attention is it's glossed over, and the stats 70 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: just aren't reported in some countries. So it's very difficult 71 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: to get a global a global take on how many 72 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: babies actually don't make it. 73 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: I might just dive in here and ask for a definition. 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: There may be some people who are listening who are 75 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: not familiar or have just not encountered still birth. I 76 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: think the percentage of people who wouldn't know would be 77 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: quite low, but it's still worth just spending a moment 78 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: and defining what that is medically. 79 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: So I think medically a still born baby is one 80 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 2: that's born over a certain weight or over a certain 81 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: number of weeks. Off the top of my head, I 82 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: think it's twenty four weeks. And Israelian government actually supports 83 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: families to a certain point, but there's very little support 84 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: for miscarriage or for early pregnancy loss, and there's now 85 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: a foundation called Pink Elephant who do take on some 86 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 2: of that emotional support for those families and for those 87 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: women experiencing that. Like I said, I was so young, 88 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: I had no support during when it happened to me. 89 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: I very quiet, didn't reach out, didn't seek the support 90 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: that I definitely needed. And it really wasn't until I 91 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: had my recent hysterectomy that I even started to process 92 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: that trauma. And bringing this book into the world with 93 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: such a cathartic experience because it helped me not just 94 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 2: to process what had happened to myself and to my family, 95 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: my extended family with my sister and her kids, but 96 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: also looking at how I could include other people. So 97 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: all of the illustrators involved also have their connection with 98 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: stillborn or pregnancy loss or I've got some of the 99 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 2: illustrators are rainbow babies themselves. So rainbow baby is a 100 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 2: term for a child that is born after a pregnancy 101 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: or infant loss. And you know, one of the illustrators 102 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 2: is her mom's rainbow baby, one is their mom is 103 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: a rainbow baby. One has Annie's and Arnie's that they 104 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: never got to meet because they died in infancy. One 105 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: has helped a friend through infant loss themselves. Very recently, 106 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: I've got people that I've had miscarriages, people that I've 107 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: had steelborns. And when I put the call out on 108 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: social media to ask if there would be any illustrators 109 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 2: interested in helping me bring this book to publication, I 110 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: put a question in that sort of survey asking if 111 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: they had a connection to the subject and what that 112 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 2: connection was. And I was absolutely overwhelmed with the stories 113 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: of people and the connections and how how many people 114 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: were affected by this just in that little pool of 115 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: talent that were illustrators, and the prevalence are much larger 116 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 2: than what people realize because it goes it's so unreported, 117 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: and people don't talk about it, even amongst their friends. 118 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: They don't talk about it. 119 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: While you were talking Leli Lotta, I just quickly googled, 120 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: and the World Health Organization indicates that stillbirth occurs once 121 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: every sixteen seconds. That's what the two million plus still 122 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: born babies per year equates to one every sixteen seconds. 123 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: So when you say that this is happening a lot 124 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: more than we realize, I think that that statistic gives 125 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: us a sense of the enormity of this challenge. Kylie 126 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: and I have a wonderful couple of friends who they 127 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: had several children when they also experienced loss through still birth, 128 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: and I still remember watching I thought they handled it 129 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: so well. It's such a hard thing to go through. 130 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: So what did you notice when that happened. 131 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: I was actually really confronted by it. Initially, this was 132 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: many years ago. I don't know if i'd even done 133 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: my study at this point, or maybe I was going 134 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: through my study experience. And they have They had a 135 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: photographer coming in and take photos of them holding their 136 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: precious baby. They've got a family portrait with the whole 137 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: family there with I think they had maybe three or 138 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: four other kids at the time, maybe even five, I 139 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: can't quite remember. They have a large family and they 140 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: were all standing there holding the baby. And as an 141 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: outsider who hadn't thought about it from any kind of 142 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: an empathic perspective, I found it really confronting and quite macabre. 143 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 2: Absolutely, But as. 144 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: I reflected, we walk into their home and we see 145 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: a family photo of their family holding their baby, and 146 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: it's all of them, And I think, in hindsight, as 147 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: much as it seemed a little bit difficult for me 148 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: to process as an outsider at the time. It opens 149 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: up conversations. It allows the family to talk about their 150 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: sibling who was lost, who didn't survive, And I can't 151 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: help but think that it must be so reassuring for them, 152 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: not just in the moment, but ongoingly as they have 153 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: friends and acquaintances walk into their home and say, I 154 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: didn't know you had that many children, and they have 155 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: the opportunity to say, actually, we lost one. That baby 156 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: was still born. It's so I presume, so healing for 157 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: them as they process that consistently. 158 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, and often it's not until we've become parents ourselves 159 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: that we can understand all of those nuances that you know, 160 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 2: the grieving process changes when you become a parent and 161 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: you include the family in that process. And just sixteen seconds, 162 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: if it's every sixteen seconds. It took me ten years 163 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: to be able to talk about what happened to me, 164 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: and twenty years to bring this book out, and it 165 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: was it's flabagasted me that you know, every sixteen seconds, 166 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: and for that family, they're able to have that conversation. 167 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: That's one of the things that really is recommended for 168 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: stillbirth is to help the families grieve. Some hospitals actually 169 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: have cuddle coots now where you can take the baby 170 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: home and have that experience of bringing the baby into 171 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: the nursery. And the facilities that are available now, and 172 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: the support that is available now, those networks that are 173 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: available now, it changes the conversation, and it starts a 174 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: conversation so learly. 175 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: The book is called My Brother Born Sleeping. Part of 176 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: me wants to ask you to tell me all about 177 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: the book, but I think the conversation we've had so 178 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: far is sufficient to give parents a strong sense of 179 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: what this is about. As part of you publishing this book, 180 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: you've developed a special relationship with Red Nose Day. Why 181 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: don't you tell me a bit about that and how 182 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: purchasing the book will make a difference in the lives 183 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: of parents who are suffering and struggling with loss. 184 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely well, the book was just one part of the process, 185 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 2: or one part of the project, and the project brought 186 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: to together not just the physical book that parents would 187 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 2: be able to access it and read to their children 188 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: when they need it, but also a video which is 189 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: available free online on YouTube immediately, so as soon as 190 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: the family is put in the situation of needing to 191 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 2: have this conversation. That video is there, it's illustrated, it's 192 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: read by children, so the children that need the message 193 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:27,359 Speaker 2: are getting that message or getting the information from other children. Beautiful, absolutely, 194 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: and it's the project incorporates both. But when we're putting 195 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: it together, it was kind of an oversight that we've 196 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 2: realized that this book might accidentally make some money, and 197 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 2: that was never the intention. The intention was to create 198 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: a resource. And then when we realized that it might 199 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: make some money, then we've partnered with Red Nose to 200 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: make sure that every cent from every sale goes to 201 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: them to support them. They fund research, they support families. 202 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: The work that they do is just incredible and the 203 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: network that they have in the support that they provide 204 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: to people, it's not just to the parents. They also 205 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: provide support to families and they provide resources that can 206 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: help people like yourself as a friend of someone who 207 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: has gone through infant loss, so that you could see 208 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: you know why the family might take that time to 209 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 2: have those. 210 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: And that's the thing, isn't it. Lily is not just 211 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: for the people who are suffering. It's for people who 212 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: are friends of those who are going through it, so 213 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: we're not. 214 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 2: How to support exactly. And one of the illustrators that 215 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: was what drew them towards the project to begin with. 216 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: They're from the LGBTQI community and one of their friends 217 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: had just recently suffered are still born and not knowing 218 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: how to approach those conversations or what to do, and 219 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 2: being a part of this project, they were able to 220 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: then start those conversations and create an environment where it 221 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 2: was safe to talk about this subject, and those conversations 222 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 2: they go such a long way. 223 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: If people want to know more, where can they see 224 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: the video and where can they find my brother born sleeping? 225 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: So either the Lilyloto website or www. Dot the Knowledgecenter 226 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: dot com dot au. And the video is just available 227 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: on YouTube. And like I said, it's free, it's available, 228 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: and it's a resource. So even if you know, if 229 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,599 Speaker 2: you know someone that has gone through a pregnancy or 230 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: infant loss, and just send them the link and say, 231 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: I know that you're hurting. There's nothing I can do, 232 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: but I found this and it might help. And sometimes 233 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 2: just that reaching out can be enough to start that 234 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: conversation which will start the healing process. So we can 235 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: get more people involved in the healing process. Then it's 236 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: one of those things that it's never going to be 237 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: fully healed, but being in a safe environment where you 238 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 2: can talk about what has happened, how it's happened, and 239 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 2: include children in that journey of healing as well. 240 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: Lilylotta is the author of the well known Rhyme Time 241 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: books and a new and really special book called My 242 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 1: Brother Born Sleeping. All proceeds from the book, as mentioned 243 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: go to Red Nose Day. Lellie, thanks so much for 244 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: joining me on the Happy Families podcast to talk about 245 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: this really important and not often talked about topic. 246 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Justin. 247 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from 248 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. If you 249 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: would like more information, our show notes are full of 250 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: as much as we can cram in there about what 251 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: Lellly Lotta has done with this book, My Brother Born Sleeping. 252 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: Please visit our show notes for more or check out 253 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: Happy Families dot com dot au for resources to make 254 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: your family happier.