1
00:00:09,685 --> 00:00:10,805
Speaker 1: I Heeart podcasts.

2
00:00:10,845 --> 00:00:13,605
Speaker 2: You can hear more Gold one I four point three podcasts,

3
00:00:13,685 --> 00:00:18,364
Speaker 2: playlist and listen live on the free iHeart app. Got

4
00:00:18,405 --> 00:00:19,084
Speaker 2: anything Good?

5
00:00:19,685 --> 00:00:25,084
Speaker 3: Hey, this is the Christian O'Connell Show podcast.

6
00:00:27,365 --> 00:00:30,485
Speaker 2: My special guest this morning is the world's most in

7
00:00:30,604 --> 00:00:34,285
Speaker 2: demand mindset coach. It is Ben Crow.

8
00:00:34,405 --> 00:00:35,605
Speaker 1: Ben. Welcome to the show.

9
00:00:35,725 --> 00:00:37,165
Speaker 3: Thank you, Christian, Thanks for having me.

10
00:00:37,485 --> 00:00:39,365
Speaker 2: Yea, I know you're someone I've got to know the

11
00:00:39,445 --> 00:00:42,245
Speaker 2: last couple of years. If a lot of people don't

12
00:00:42,284 --> 00:00:46,885
Speaker 2: recognize the name, how would you describe what you do?

13
00:00:47,004 --> 00:00:49,045
Speaker 2: And I've read the book and I don't like titles,

14
00:00:49,365 --> 00:00:50,764
Speaker 2: and we'll get to that in a minute, But how

15
00:00:50,805 --> 00:00:52,845
Speaker 2: would you describe what is a mindset coach?

16
00:00:53,245 --> 00:00:55,205
Speaker 3: I guess I try and help people with their mindset

17
00:00:55,605 --> 00:00:57,965
Speaker 3: on the field in a professional sense, to find confidence

18
00:00:57,965 --> 00:01:02,005
Speaker 3: in their skills with belief in a personal sense, to

19
00:01:02,045 --> 00:01:05,165
Speaker 3: believe in their potential and find that balance between I

20
00:01:05,165 --> 00:01:08,925
Speaker 3: guess confidence and happiness and achievement with fulfillment. We're so

21
00:01:09,085 --> 00:01:11,804
Speaker 3: distracted today as human beings, focusing on all these things

22
00:01:11,885 --> 00:01:14,525
Speaker 3: we can't control, wanting to control the create. It's emotional

23
00:01:14,525 --> 00:01:17,085
Speaker 3: pressure or outcome pressure, right, So I guess a mindset.

24
00:01:17,125 --> 00:01:19,605
Speaker 3: Coach helps identify where the distractions are coming and they're

25
00:01:19,605 --> 00:01:21,885
Speaker 3: different for all of us, right, and try and find

26
00:01:22,205 --> 00:01:24,725
Speaker 3: the freedom to compete, have fun and play and as

27
00:01:24,805 --> 00:01:26,805
Speaker 3: human beings. I guess that's what we should all be doing,

28
00:01:26,845 --> 00:01:28,645
Speaker 3: whether an athlete or a student.

29
00:01:29,125 --> 00:01:30,725
Speaker 2: And how did you get into this line of work?

30
00:01:30,765 --> 00:01:33,565
Speaker 2: You know you're Australian. How did you even end up

31
00:01:33,605 --> 00:01:37,485
Speaker 2: in America working with mister Nike, Phil Knight, Shootdog?

32
00:01:37,525 --> 00:01:38,245
Speaker 1: How did that happen?

33
00:01:40,085 --> 00:01:42,165
Speaker 3: My dad passed away when I was sixteen, I reckon,

34
00:01:42,165 --> 00:01:44,725
Speaker 3: I've always had this curiosity to try and just make

35
00:01:44,765 --> 00:01:46,725
Speaker 3: sense of the world and find more meaning and perspective.

36
00:01:46,725 --> 00:01:52,205
Speaker 3: And then at Uni I studied anthropology and philosophy and English,

37
00:01:52,285 --> 00:01:53,965
Speaker 3: and at the time I was saying, when the hell

38
00:01:53,965 --> 00:01:56,245
Speaker 3: am I ever going to use these three disciplines. I

39
00:01:56,245 --> 00:01:58,845
Speaker 3: didn't realize at the time that philosophy is the study

40
00:01:58,845 --> 00:02:02,325
Speaker 3: of wisdom, anthropologies the study of humans and human behavior,

41
00:02:02,845 --> 00:02:05,765
Speaker 3: and English is kind of prioritize as storytelling. Then I

42
00:02:05,845 --> 00:02:09,005
Speaker 3: joined Nike, which is kind of a storytelling company. And

43
00:02:09,085 --> 00:02:12,044
Speaker 3: I noticed at Nike that there are all these athletes

44
00:02:12,085 --> 00:02:15,085
Speaker 3: that were so extrinsically motivated in terms of money, and

45
00:02:15,125 --> 00:02:18,445
Speaker 3: fame and status and recognition. They lost sight of why

46
00:02:18,445 --> 00:02:20,484
Speaker 3: they fell in love with the sport in the first place.

47
00:02:21,045 --> 00:02:23,005
Speaker 3: And a lot of our athletes went off the rails,

48
00:02:23,205 --> 00:02:25,165
Speaker 3: and some of them are more famous than others, you know,

49
00:02:25,245 --> 00:02:28,205
Speaker 3: Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong. And I noticed that athletes that

50
00:02:28,245 --> 00:02:32,285
Speaker 3: went the other way, that went internal, not external, and

51
00:02:32,285 --> 00:02:35,085
Speaker 3: Andre Agassi is a very good case study. Ashbadi is

52
00:02:35,085 --> 00:02:37,485
Speaker 3: a very good case study here in Australia. Albert to

53
00:02:37,525 --> 00:02:39,565
Speaker 3: separate what they did from who they were, like the

54
00:02:39,685 --> 00:02:42,764
Speaker 3: human doing from the human being, and their identity became

55
00:02:42,965 --> 00:02:46,325
Speaker 3: less about what they did and more about their intrinsic motivations,

56
00:02:46,725 --> 00:02:49,245
Speaker 3: and that just fascinated me. I suddenly realized there's no

57
00:02:49,325 --> 00:02:51,005
Speaker 3: such thing as a human being school where you can

58
00:02:51,085 --> 00:02:53,845
Speaker 3: kind of learn these principles, and that took me on

59
00:02:53,885 --> 00:02:57,245
Speaker 3: a very different journey from more internal storytelling. When I

60
00:02:57,245 --> 00:02:59,525
Speaker 3: came back to Australia, I just continued to mentor a

61
00:02:59,525 --> 00:03:00,885
Speaker 3: lot of athletes that I used to work with it

62
00:03:01,485 --> 00:03:05,165
Speaker 3: at Nike, and then that morphed into mentoring coaches and

63
00:03:05,245 --> 00:03:09,405
Speaker 3: then athletes teams, executive teams. During COVID, it kind of

64
00:03:09,445 --> 00:03:12,445
Speaker 3: just went crazy and I started morphed into hospitals and

65
00:03:12,525 --> 00:03:15,805
Speaker 3: universities and the World Health Organization. And yeah, I've kind

66
00:03:15,805 --> 00:03:18,405
Speaker 3: of been on a journey ever since then. And I

67
00:03:18,445 --> 00:03:21,165
Speaker 3: guess I've just had time during COVID to codify these

68
00:03:21,205 --> 00:03:25,005
Speaker 3: principles into a framework that created the Mojo app. And

69
00:03:25,045 --> 00:03:26,965
Speaker 3: then the last year I've had the time most of

70
00:03:26,965 --> 00:03:30,885
Speaker 3: my athletes retired, whether it's Danny Ricardo or Ashbardi, Dylan Orcott,

71
00:03:30,885 --> 00:03:33,805
Speaker 3: Steph Gilmore and gave me time to kind of okay,

72
00:03:33,805 --> 00:03:36,285
Speaker 3: if I'm ever going to write this book, And I

73
00:03:36,285 --> 00:03:39,765
Speaker 3: guess my work lends itself to long form storytelling, and

74
00:03:39,805 --> 00:03:41,285
Speaker 3: I thought this is the time to write the book.

75
00:03:41,605 --> 00:03:43,085
Speaker 3: You had something to do with it, Christian.

76
00:03:42,845 --> 00:03:45,685
Speaker 2: Oh ready, Sorry, it takes I've just finished writing my book.

77
00:03:45,765 --> 00:03:48,125
Speaker 2: It takes a lot to write a book. But the

78
00:03:48,165 --> 00:03:50,845
Speaker 2: great news is everything you want to do. It feels

79
00:03:50,885 --> 00:03:53,605
Speaker 2: like a conversation with you, Ben. It's a great book.

80
00:03:53,645 --> 00:03:57,685
Speaker 2: And I've read lots of different transformational books. What puts

81
00:03:57,725 --> 00:04:00,805
Speaker 2: your book about all of them is this isn't theory.

82
00:04:01,525 --> 00:04:05,125
Speaker 2: Every story, every perspective shift that you're harping us with

83
00:04:05,285 --> 00:04:08,725
Speaker 2: throughout the book has got real world examples that you've

84
00:04:08,765 --> 00:04:10,805
Speaker 2: been part of or if you've got a story about

85
00:04:11,085 --> 00:04:14,125
Speaker 2: and so it feels more real, it feels that it's

86
00:04:14,165 --> 00:04:16,045
Speaker 2: something like, oh I could do that, I understand that.

87
00:04:16,565 --> 00:04:19,604
Speaker 1: And so it's crammed with stories.

88
00:04:20,005 --> 00:04:22,165
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's deliberate because I think stories is how

89
00:04:22,205 --> 00:04:25,484
Speaker 3: we learn as humans, and we're living through an information

90
00:04:26,085 --> 00:04:30,925
Speaker 3: era with technology and reports and it is but stories,

91
00:04:30,964 --> 00:04:33,724
Speaker 3: which taps into our imagination, moves it from an intellectual

92
00:04:33,804 --> 00:04:37,125
Speaker 3: understanding to an emotional understanding. You know, we are the

93
00:04:37,164 --> 00:04:39,645
Speaker 3: stories we tell ourselves about others. But when we can

94
00:04:39,685 --> 00:04:42,724
Speaker 3: hear stories from others, especially imperfect stories of how people

95
00:04:42,804 --> 00:04:45,805
Speaker 3: overcame adversity and so forth. But getting back to the book,

96
00:04:46,205 --> 00:04:49,044
Speaker 3: I realized a long time ago that these principles are

97
00:04:49,044 --> 00:04:56,125
Speaker 3: two thousand years old, and if you study sociology, psychology, philosophy, anthropology, theology,

98
00:04:56,685 --> 00:05:00,604
Speaker 3: there's these kind of principles that exist across all of them.

99
00:05:00,685 --> 00:05:02,684
Speaker 3: And I think the one skill that I feel that

100
00:05:02,724 --> 00:05:06,565
Speaker 3: I have is kind of pattern recognition understanding. Okay, this

101
00:05:06,604 --> 00:05:09,724
Speaker 3: is appearing across all these different signs, all these different

102
00:05:09,765 --> 00:05:12,165
Speaker 3: ologies and isms. If there's a way that I can

103
00:05:12,245 --> 00:05:16,925
Speaker 3: simplify this kind of practical wisdom and remove the mystique

104
00:05:16,964 --> 00:05:18,765
Speaker 3: in a really simple and practical way. I think that

105
00:05:18,885 --> 00:05:21,125
Speaker 3: was the opportunity with these perspective shifts in the book.

106
00:05:21,125 --> 00:05:23,165
Speaker 3: And then I guess over the last twenty thirty years,

107
00:05:23,205 --> 00:05:26,885
Speaker 3: I've literally been working with athletes and teams using these

108
00:05:26,924 --> 00:05:29,085
Speaker 3: exact principles, right, and then more recently with you know,

109
00:05:29,164 --> 00:05:32,525
Speaker 3: hospitals and universities and schools. So it's exciting. While I

110
00:05:32,565 --> 00:05:34,645
Speaker 3: initially started with the lead athletes at Nike, to your

111
00:05:34,685 --> 00:05:36,925
Speaker 3: question that now it's kind of an opportunity for the

112
00:05:36,964 --> 00:05:38,765
Speaker 3: whole world to get access to some of these works.

113
00:05:39,044 --> 00:05:42,604
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, it's grounded in the every day and

114
00:05:42,724 --> 00:05:45,085
Speaker 2: what's going is this post The whole book really is

115
00:05:45,445 --> 00:05:48,844
Speaker 2: you walking us through how to shift perspectives. And I

116
00:05:48,885 --> 00:05:51,565
Speaker 2: guess most of everything in our life is perspectives. And

117
00:05:51,645 --> 00:05:54,645
Speaker 2: when you think about it and you challenge your perspectives

118
00:05:54,645 --> 00:05:57,805
Speaker 2: and assumptions, invariably they're wrong. We we just don't got

119
00:05:57,804 --> 00:06:00,405
Speaker 2: the time. You're just overwhelmed getting through the day. You're

120
00:06:00,445 --> 00:06:03,005
Speaker 2: never ending to do list. The great thing about reading

121
00:06:03,125 --> 00:06:06,004
Speaker 2: your book is that actually invites you to slow down.

122
00:06:06,044 --> 00:06:08,205
Speaker 2: I found myself slowing down and actually I'm quite a

123
00:06:08,245 --> 00:06:09,525
Speaker 2: quick my age to.

124
00:06:09,484 --> 00:06:10,044
Speaker 1: Read this book.

125
00:06:10,205 --> 00:06:12,325
Speaker 2: I've read it twice because you can see here there's

126
00:06:12,325 --> 00:06:15,525
Speaker 2: one there's so many notes in this The perspective shifts.

127
00:06:16,005 --> 00:06:18,325
Speaker 2: Is that what you think most of us need? That's

128
00:06:18,364 --> 00:06:20,444
Speaker 2: where we're struggling when we talking about being stuck in

129
00:06:20,484 --> 00:06:22,404
Speaker 2: our lives or at work or at home.

130
00:06:22,484 --> 00:06:23,484
Speaker 1: Is that what you think it is?

131
00:06:23,844 --> 00:06:26,685
Speaker 3: I do very much. So Yeah. Perspective by definition means

132
00:06:26,724 --> 00:06:30,164
Speaker 3: the way you see something or your attitude towards something. Right,

133
00:06:30,205 --> 00:06:32,165
Speaker 3: So am I stuck at home? Am I safe at home?

134
00:06:32,245 --> 00:06:33,525
Speaker 3: Do I get to do this? Or I have to

135
00:06:33,565 --> 00:06:36,444
Speaker 3: got to do this? So our perspective literally guides our

136
00:06:36,645 --> 00:06:40,645
Speaker 3: entire life, So choosing it wisely is pretty important.

137
00:06:40,724 --> 00:06:40,844
Speaker 1: Right?

138
00:06:40,844 --> 00:06:43,164
Speaker 3: But where do you go to learn these things? Whether

139
00:06:43,205 --> 00:06:45,724
Speaker 3: my perspective is right or wrong? And there's nothing more

140
00:06:45,724 --> 00:06:47,724
Speaker 3: exciting for me. And that's why I called the book

141
00:06:47,765 --> 00:06:51,284
Speaker 3: where the light gets in. When someone has this Eureka moment,

142
00:06:51,364 --> 00:06:53,844
Speaker 3: this aha moment where they realized where they were going

143
00:06:53,844 --> 00:06:57,325
Speaker 3: wrong in terms of their mindset and their perspective, and

144
00:06:57,484 --> 00:07:00,604
Speaker 3: they can reframe either their sense of self, a sense

145
00:07:00,604 --> 00:07:03,485
Speaker 3: of worth, their role as a leader, what they thought

146
00:07:03,565 --> 00:07:06,044
Speaker 3: was expected of them in life versus what isn't expected

147
00:07:06,085 --> 00:07:10,325
Speaker 3: of them, and while every chapter as a mindset to

148
00:07:10,364 --> 00:07:12,884
Speaker 3: shift and a problem to solve, they all share a

149
00:07:12,925 --> 00:07:16,444
Speaker 3: common theme, which is very much about learning to identify

150
00:07:16,565 --> 00:07:19,364
Speaker 3: and accept the things we can't control and focus the

151
00:07:19,405 --> 00:07:21,405
Speaker 3: limited time we have left on this planet on the

152
00:07:21,405 --> 00:07:24,725
Speaker 3: things we can control and the best version of ourselves.

153
00:07:25,125 --> 00:07:26,645
Speaker 3: Most of us don't know what the best version of

154
00:07:26,645 --> 00:07:29,765
Speaker 3: ourselves is. We're so focused on the human doing we

155
00:07:29,804 --> 00:07:31,845
Speaker 3: haven't really connected back with the human being. And the

156
00:07:31,845 --> 00:07:34,085
Speaker 3: book really shows you how to do that. So you

157
00:07:34,085 --> 00:07:36,085
Speaker 3: don't feel like you have to continue to achieve something

158
00:07:36,205 --> 00:07:39,085
Speaker 3: or do something in order to be someone. You can

159
00:07:39,125 --> 00:07:41,405
Speaker 3: be content. You're not done yet. You've got all these

160
00:07:41,405 --> 00:07:43,325
Speaker 3: goals and dreams you want to chase down, but your

161
00:07:43,325 --> 00:07:46,004
Speaker 3: self worth isn't determined on whether you get there or not.

162
00:07:46,605 --> 00:07:49,005
Speaker 2: See that's a big thing though, because of social media.

163
00:07:49,285 --> 00:07:51,485
Speaker 2: I think it makes this well, because we're fed a

164
00:07:51,605 --> 00:07:54,165
Speaker 2: fake version of other people. You know, you watch a

165
00:07:54,245 --> 00:07:56,845
Speaker 2: video that's probably the twentieth version they've done off film

166
00:07:56,845 --> 00:07:59,245
Speaker 2: in that video, and you think that's their real life,

167
00:07:59,445 --> 00:08:03,165
Speaker 2: and so it creates this massive disconnection, so you feel

168
00:08:03,605 --> 00:08:05,805
Speaker 2: even more stuck in a way. So I'm never going

169
00:08:05,885 --> 00:08:08,364
Speaker 2: to get to that social media doesn't help.

170
00:08:08,725 --> 00:08:13,045
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the biggest distraction I've noticed globally, and

171
00:08:13,125 --> 00:08:16,765
Speaker 3: social media is part of it. It's a focus on

172
00:08:16,845 --> 00:08:23,684
Speaker 3: extrinsic motivations for our self worth. Typically that's money, fame, status,

173
00:08:24,205 --> 00:08:27,885
Speaker 3: and recognition. And when we go external for our self worth,

174
00:08:27,925 --> 00:08:32,925
Speaker 3: we become externally socially determined, not self determined, but if

175
00:08:32,925 --> 00:08:36,205
Speaker 3: we can become intrinsically motivated right and focus on the

176
00:08:36,205 --> 00:08:38,485
Speaker 3: things we can control and the best version of ourselves.

177
00:08:38,725 --> 00:08:41,765
Speaker 3: But it happens way before media and social media and

178
00:08:41,804 --> 00:08:45,725
Speaker 3: consumerism and materialism. It actually starts back in the education

179
00:08:45,845 --> 00:08:49,525
Speaker 3: system Christian like in grade three in most countries around

180
00:08:49,525 --> 00:08:53,005
Speaker 3: the world, that's when grading gets introduced. And that's when

181
00:08:53,084 --> 00:08:55,725
Speaker 3: kids like a nine year old girl or boy shifts

182
00:08:55,765 --> 00:08:59,965
Speaker 3: their perspective from playing with numbers and playing with shapes

183
00:09:00,444 --> 00:09:03,845
Speaker 3: to extrinsically motivated because suddenly there's grades, and suddenly my

184
00:09:03,925 --> 00:09:06,285
Speaker 3: parents who are interested in my grades, and suddenly I'm

185
00:09:06,285 --> 00:09:08,925
Speaker 3: not in that class anymore. I'm in that class. A

186
00:09:09,005 --> 00:09:11,604
Speaker 3: nine year old boy or girl. They're too young because

187
00:09:11,684 --> 00:09:13,645
Speaker 3: from that moment on, they believe they have to do

188
00:09:13,684 --> 00:09:16,845
Speaker 3: something or achieve something in order to be someone, and

189
00:09:16,845 --> 00:09:19,325
Speaker 3: that continues through secondary school and then the workforce and

190
00:09:19,365 --> 00:09:22,325
Speaker 3: so forth. So the goal is to help I mean,

191
00:09:22,485 --> 00:09:26,485
Speaker 3: be fantastic in grade three. If kids could develop a

192
00:09:26,525 --> 00:09:29,685
Speaker 3: to be list rather than a to do list, I love.

193
00:09:29,564 --> 00:09:30,045
Speaker 1: That in the book.

194
00:09:30,365 --> 00:09:31,964
Speaker 2: Tell us a bit more about that though, because we've

195
00:09:31,965 --> 00:09:34,084
Speaker 2: all got the to do list. But what's the ben

196
00:09:34,245 --> 00:09:35,365
Speaker 2: version of that, the to be list?

197
00:09:35,444 --> 00:09:38,645
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of identified it during the pandemic a lot,

198
00:09:38,765 --> 00:09:41,045
Speaker 3: I'd say to a lot of clients, Right, regardless of

199
00:09:41,125 --> 00:09:44,085
Speaker 3: you're whether you're religious or you're believe in God, it's

200
00:09:44,084 --> 00:09:45,684
Speaker 3: just a shame for the purpose the world's trying to

201
00:09:45,684 --> 00:09:47,645
Speaker 3: tell us something with his pandemic. I'd always ask them

202
00:09:47,645 --> 00:09:51,165
Speaker 3: the same question, what do you reckons? She's trying to say, right,

203
00:09:51,485 --> 00:09:53,165
Speaker 3: And that also the same thing in their own words,

204
00:09:53,165 --> 00:09:55,845
Speaker 3: they reckon the world's trying to tell us to stop

205
00:09:56,005 --> 00:09:59,165
Speaker 3: doing and obsessing doing and start being, you know, to

206
00:09:59,285 --> 00:10:02,485
Speaker 3: do less and to be more, be more connected to

207
00:10:02,525 --> 00:10:05,405
Speaker 3: myself or family or nature. And they said they wanted

208
00:10:05,444 --> 00:10:07,684
Speaker 3: to just stop saying busy when someone says, how are

209
00:10:07,684 --> 00:10:10,885
Speaker 3: you right? And so, because if you think about it, Christian,

210
00:10:10,885 --> 00:10:12,084
Speaker 3: if you feel like you have to do something or

211
00:10:12,125 --> 00:10:14,445
Speaker 3: achieve something, right with this is a radio show or whatever.

212
00:10:15,285 --> 00:10:19,605
Speaker 3: In order to be someone, you'll never be fulfilled, you'll

213
00:10:19,725 --> 00:10:21,885
Speaker 3: never be content, you'll never feel like you're enough, you'll

214
00:10:21,885 --> 00:10:24,885
Speaker 3: never have unconditional love because it's always conditional, not having

215
00:10:24,885 --> 00:10:27,285
Speaker 3: to do something or achieve something. So what we suggest

216
00:10:27,525 --> 00:10:30,045
Speaker 3: is like, rather than start the morning with a to

217
00:10:30,084 --> 00:10:34,405
Speaker 3: do list, is write your own to be list. Because

218
00:10:34,684 --> 00:10:38,084
Speaker 3: whatever words you write down next against your to be list.

219
00:10:38,165 --> 00:10:41,525
Speaker 3: Let's say Christian wants to be playful or grateful, right,

220
00:10:41,605 --> 00:10:44,165
Speaker 3: or kind or courageous? Right, it doesn't matter, it's your list,

221
00:10:44,684 --> 00:10:47,804
Speaker 3: But whatever words you write down next, you're in total

222
00:10:47,885 --> 00:10:50,765
Speaker 3: control of that human being. There's so many things in

223
00:10:50,804 --> 00:10:53,405
Speaker 3: your life you can't control, but the human that you

224
00:10:53,485 --> 00:10:56,324
Speaker 3: want to be is not one of them, and that

225
00:10:56,365 --> 00:10:59,525
Speaker 3: can become your definition of success. Right in whatever form

226
00:10:59,525 --> 00:11:01,324
Speaker 3: you show up in, either as a dad or as

227
00:11:01,324 --> 00:11:03,324
Speaker 3: a husband, or as a radio producer or as a leader,

228
00:11:03,725 --> 00:11:06,245
Speaker 3: if you are playful and grateful and kind and courageous,

229
00:11:07,084 --> 00:11:09,805
Speaker 3: that's been a successful day relative to the things you

230
00:11:09,804 --> 00:11:10,325
Speaker 3: can control.

231
00:11:10,405 --> 00:11:12,125
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so inch because for a lot of us band,

232
00:11:12,525 --> 00:11:15,405
Speaker 2: who we are is largely situational, Like if things are

233
00:11:15,444 --> 00:11:17,765
Speaker 2: going well, the meeting's going well, but the moment you're

234
00:11:17,765 --> 00:11:20,045
Speaker 2: feeling being judged or you did something wrong, you made

235
00:11:20,045 --> 00:11:23,205
Speaker 2: a mistake, we kind of lose ourselves and you're stuck

236
00:11:23,204 --> 00:11:26,005
Speaker 2: in some story of without even realizing you're not there

237
00:11:26,045 --> 00:11:28,484
Speaker 2: in the room. Suddenly a fifteen year old version of

238
00:11:28,525 --> 00:11:32,005
Speaker 2: yourself turned up, you know, and you're incredibly reactive and

239
00:11:32,084 --> 00:11:34,005
Speaker 2: people don't know what to do around you and that

240
00:11:34,444 --> 00:11:36,005
Speaker 2: and it all happens so quickly.

241
00:11:36,245 --> 00:11:38,805
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's where self acceptance and self compassion come in.

242
00:11:39,045 --> 00:11:41,685
Speaker 3: So part of the first part of the journey is

243
00:11:41,725 --> 00:11:44,765
Speaker 3: really making sense of your story and working out who

244
00:11:44,765 --> 00:11:47,645
Speaker 3: you are and letting go of who you're not and

245
00:11:47,684 --> 00:11:51,205
Speaker 3: start to celebrate yourself and celebrate your imperfections and your quirks,

246
00:11:51,525 --> 00:11:54,045
Speaker 3: and bring self compassion along the ride too, so you

247
00:11:54,084 --> 00:11:56,605
Speaker 3: can be kinder and gentle to yourself. Right, you can

248
00:11:56,645 --> 00:11:59,765
Speaker 3: be totally committed but fully detached from the outcome. You're

249
00:11:59,765 --> 00:12:03,245
Speaker 3: not attention, you're not attaching your self worth to your

250
00:12:03,365 --> 00:12:05,564
Speaker 3: role or you know, we're achievements and things you're going

251
00:12:05,605 --> 00:12:06,125
Speaker 3: to do in your.

252
00:12:06,005 --> 00:12:07,724
Speaker 1: Love Tell them about this then.

253
00:12:07,804 --> 00:12:10,685
Speaker 2: One of the most impactful chapters in your book for me,

254
00:12:10,925 --> 00:12:13,085
Speaker 2: and I've told the whole team to start in the

255
00:12:13,084 --> 00:12:15,724
Speaker 2: middle of your book is the one going from fear

256
00:12:16,084 --> 00:12:18,405
Speaker 2: to play. And I don't think it's just unique to me.

257
00:12:18,485 --> 00:12:19,605
Speaker 2: I think for a lot of us, whether you've got

258
00:12:19,605 --> 00:12:22,805
Speaker 2: pressure at home or whatever business you do, there's some

259
00:12:22,885 --> 00:12:25,645
Speaker 2: form of pressure in your life and our relationship to

260
00:12:25,684 --> 00:12:29,485
Speaker 2: pressure and fear. You do a great job in one chapter.

261
00:12:29,804 --> 00:12:31,724
Speaker 2: It really made me think about things differently over the

262
00:12:31,804 --> 00:12:34,485
Speaker 2: last couple of weeks. I'm very grateful that chapter. What

263
00:12:34,525 --> 00:12:36,725
Speaker 2: could you tell people listening right now about how you

264
00:12:36,804 --> 00:12:38,484
Speaker 2: reframe fear and pressure?

265
00:12:38,684 --> 00:12:41,204
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that was also my favorite chapter to write

266
00:12:41,204 --> 00:12:42,965
Speaker 3: as well, and I love what you said about you

267
00:12:43,005 --> 00:12:45,324
Speaker 3: don't need to pick up this book and read it sequentially.

268
00:12:45,725 --> 00:12:48,085
Speaker 3: You can look at the perspective shifts and you think instinctively,

269
00:12:48,125 --> 00:12:52,165
Speaker 3: you're going to know which one are really struggling with

270
00:12:52,365 --> 00:12:55,525
Speaker 3: right now. From a leader, it might be from Ida Weo,

271
00:12:55,645 --> 00:12:58,684
Speaker 3: the hero's journey, where you realize that life's not about

272
00:12:58,684 --> 00:13:01,444
Speaker 3: you but the impact you can have on someone else's life.

273
00:13:01,684 --> 00:13:04,925
Speaker 3: But the play chapter was so much fun for me

274
00:13:05,005 --> 00:13:07,765
Speaker 3: to write and research, and I learned so much when

275
00:13:07,765 --> 00:13:09,564
Speaker 3: I was writing that chapter as well, in particular the

276
00:13:09,605 --> 00:13:12,685
Speaker 3: relationship between play and love, which we'll get to. But

277
00:13:12,845 --> 00:13:15,964
Speaker 3: to answer your question, the opposite of play isn't work.

278
00:13:16,605 --> 00:13:19,965
Speaker 3: The opposite of play is fear. So, as humans we're

279
00:13:20,005 --> 00:13:23,605
Speaker 3: either in the playstate orin the fear state. We don't

280
00:13:23,645 --> 00:13:26,365
Speaker 3: call it fear. We typically call it pressure or stress

281
00:13:26,485 --> 00:13:28,885
Speaker 3: or sleep, deperation, and so forth. So the first thing

282
00:13:28,965 --> 00:13:30,885
Speaker 3: a lot of my clients say to themselves is am

283
00:13:30,885 --> 00:13:33,484
Speaker 3: I in the playstate? Or am I in the fear state?

284
00:13:33,925 --> 00:13:36,285
Speaker 3: And regardless of how they answer that question, they then

285
00:13:36,324 --> 00:13:39,045
Speaker 3: say to themselves, what does play look like for me? Here?

286
00:13:39,725 --> 00:13:43,005
Speaker 3: As humans, we're designed by nature to play, but we've

287
00:13:43,045 --> 00:13:45,925
Speaker 3: just lost that up on. We think play is table tennis, yeah.

288
00:13:45,804 --> 00:13:47,765
Speaker 2: Or you think is something you did at school and

289
00:13:47,765 --> 00:13:49,765
Speaker 2: actually the work of being a grown up. It's very

290
00:13:49,845 --> 00:13:52,165
Speaker 2: serious with big consequences, though you must. If you're not

291
00:13:52,444 --> 00:13:55,285
Speaker 2: exhausted on the version of burnout or hustling, you're not

292
00:13:55,324 --> 00:13:55,965
Speaker 2: doing it right.

293
00:13:56,125 --> 00:13:58,405
Speaker 3: Totally, totally. So I say in the book that play

294
00:13:58,444 --> 00:14:02,325
Speaker 3: needs a rebrand. It does because it's fundamental to human existence.

295
00:14:02,365 --> 00:14:04,765
Speaker 3: You think about this radio show, you think about any

296
00:14:04,804 --> 00:14:08,405
Speaker 3: success you've had in your life. Everything you're doing is

297
00:14:08,605 --> 00:14:11,365
Speaker 3: play based, right, And the simplest way to get into

298
00:14:11,405 --> 00:14:16,245
Speaker 3: play is to smile and be curious. The curiosity keeps

299
00:14:16,245 --> 00:14:18,165
Speaker 3: you in the playstate. It takes agency back, and it

300
00:14:18,165 --> 00:14:21,285
Speaker 3: turns adversity into possibility. Okay, how do I get through this?

301
00:14:21,325 --> 00:14:23,604
Speaker 3: Who can help me? Where to from here? But there

302
00:14:23,605 --> 00:14:28,165
Speaker 3: are different forms of play. Curiosity play is the simplest one.

303
00:14:28,365 --> 00:14:31,645
Speaker 3: We can simply ask yourself what if? Right, Just start

304
00:14:31,685 --> 00:14:34,125
Speaker 3: a question with what if we did this? What if

305
00:14:34,125 --> 00:14:35,605
Speaker 3: you put a commander around Australia?

306
00:14:35,725 --> 00:14:36,565
Speaker 1: Right?

307
00:14:36,685 --> 00:14:39,485
Speaker 3: What if we know? You seriously start with what if

308
00:14:39,485 --> 00:14:42,325
Speaker 3: and understanding how powerful the what if question was? And

309
00:14:42,565 --> 00:14:44,885
Speaker 3: you read the chapter right, So we tell some beautiful stories.

310
00:14:44,925 --> 00:14:48,485
Speaker 3: When Nike signed Michael Jordan, all basketball shoes had to

311
00:14:48,485 --> 00:14:50,645
Speaker 3: be white, right, and if they had any color then

312
00:14:50,725 --> 00:14:53,325
Speaker 3: he'd be banned and they'd find five thousand dollars a game. Well,

313
00:14:53,365 --> 00:14:56,005
Speaker 3: a young designer in the meeting said, what if we

314
00:14:56,125 --> 00:14:58,445
Speaker 3: did it anyway? What if we put more black and

315
00:14:58,485 --> 00:15:01,005
Speaker 3: red in Michael Jordan's shoes, and what if we paid

316
00:15:01,005 --> 00:15:03,045
Speaker 3: the fines? And what if we made an ad about it?

317
00:15:03,125 --> 00:15:03,245
Speaker 1: Right?

318
00:15:03,285 --> 00:15:04,965
Speaker 3: And within three months it became the number one shoe

319
00:15:04,965 --> 00:15:07,405
Speaker 3: in the world. So simply asking what if is a

320
00:15:07,445 --> 00:15:09,445
Speaker 3: really powerful way to get into that the playstate.

321
00:15:09,645 --> 00:15:12,045
Speaker 2: Yeah, and letting that curiosity be the engine that drives

322
00:15:12,045 --> 00:15:12,765
Speaker 2: everything in your life.

323
00:15:12,885 --> 00:15:14,325
Speaker 1: It's a better way to be in the world.

324
00:15:14,445 --> 00:15:14,645
Speaker 3: Yeah.

325
00:15:14,765 --> 00:15:16,325
Speaker 1: Yeah, Right Now, it were all very.

326
00:15:16,285 --> 00:15:18,845
Speaker 2: Fixed in our opinions, aren't we You're right, you think this,

327
00:15:19,165 --> 00:15:22,365
Speaker 2: you're wrong, and so we're really rigid and you get

328
00:15:22,365 --> 00:15:23,045
Speaker 2: trapped in that.

329
00:15:23,205 --> 00:15:26,485
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, And understanding our play history is one of

330
00:15:26,485 --> 00:15:29,685
Speaker 3: the most helpful ways to get into our natural playstate. Right. So,

331
00:15:29,725 --> 00:15:32,445
Speaker 3: when young Christian was growing up, he loved to do

332
00:15:32,485 --> 00:15:34,365
Speaker 3: different things, right. It might have been sport, it might

333
00:15:34,405 --> 00:15:35,805
Speaker 3: have been music, might have been comedy, he might have

334
00:15:35,845 --> 00:15:38,484
Speaker 3: been talking so forth. So you start to understand what

335
00:15:38,685 --> 00:15:41,244
Speaker 3: litch you up as a young boy, and typically you'll

336
00:15:41,245 --> 00:15:43,645
Speaker 3: get an understanding of the career you're doing right now

337
00:15:43,685 --> 00:15:47,365
Speaker 3: in radio is linked back to the various passions and

338
00:15:47,405 --> 00:15:50,805
Speaker 3: hobbies and curious things that young Christian had. But you

339
00:15:50,925 --> 00:15:53,765
Speaker 3: also had a natural playstate. And the way we do that,

340
00:15:53,805 --> 00:15:56,125
Speaker 3: as we explain in the book, is everyone's got an

341
00:15:56,125 --> 00:15:58,725
Speaker 3: early play memory. And early, by the way, can be

342
00:15:58,805 --> 00:16:00,045
Speaker 3: last week. It doesn't have to be when I was

343
00:16:00,085 --> 00:16:02,805
Speaker 3: ten years old. Yeah, you identify on early play memory

344
00:16:03,245 --> 00:16:04,805
Speaker 3: and it could be a photograph, right that you're looking

345
00:16:04,885 --> 00:16:07,765
Speaker 3: back on, and then you identify the words that best

346
00:16:07,805 --> 00:16:11,085
Speaker 3: represents how you were feeling in that memory. And having

347
00:16:11,085 --> 00:16:13,725
Speaker 3: done this thousands of times around the world, typically there's

348
00:16:13,805 --> 00:16:17,165
Speaker 3: five states that people identify in their own language. Obviously,

349
00:16:17,525 --> 00:16:20,285
Speaker 3: the first one is playful. The second one is feeling

350
00:16:20,365 --> 00:16:23,565
Speaker 3: free or carefree. Yeah, the next one is feeling kind

351
00:16:23,565 --> 00:16:27,685
Speaker 3: of excited or adventurous. The fourth one is feeling safe

352
00:16:27,805 --> 00:16:31,645
Speaker 3: or warm or a sense of belonging connected, and the

353
00:16:31,685 --> 00:16:35,364
Speaker 3: fifth one is loved. And a psychiatrist asked me when

354
00:16:35,405 --> 00:16:37,125
Speaker 3: I was giving a talk in London a few years ago, Ben,

355
00:16:37,205 --> 00:16:41,445
Speaker 3: why do these same five states keep appearing whenever someone

356
00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:43,645
Speaker 3: does his exercise? And I said, I don't know. It's

357
00:16:43,645 --> 00:16:47,965
Speaker 3: above my pay grade, but maybe, just maybe, as human beings,

358
00:16:48,765 --> 00:16:51,325
Speaker 3: that's who we are. Before we get pimples and we

359
00:16:51,325 --> 00:16:53,245
Speaker 3: think we've got to fit into a tribe or you know,

360
00:16:53,645 --> 00:16:58,245
Speaker 3: the fear of being rejected from the tribe, we were playful, carefree, excited, safe, warm,

361
00:16:58,285 --> 00:17:00,405
Speaker 3: belonged and loved. And if we can get back into

362
00:17:00,405 --> 00:17:03,805
Speaker 3: that natural play state, right, because it turns if we're

363
00:17:03,845 --> 00:17:06,324
Speaker 3: in the fear state, we're in that quartizole state. If

364
00:17:06,365 --> 00:17:11,125
Speaker 3: we're in the play state. It's curiosity, create, experimentation, serendipity. Right.

365
00:17:11,405 --> 00:17:13,445
Speaker 3: I feel like every time you and I catch up, Christian,

366
00:17:13,525 --> 00:17:16,725
Speaker 3: you are naturally in the playstate. It doesn't mean you

367
00:17:16,765 --> 00:17:18,725
Speaker 3: don't go into the fear state. Because we're all human, right,

368
00:17:18,725 --> 00:17:21,365
Speaker 3: We're all in perfect We'll have pressures and expectations that

369
00:17:21,405 --> 00:17:24,045
Speaker 3: we get distracted by, but for the most part, knowing

370
00:17:24,085 --> 00:17:27,405
Speaker 3: you've got the power to get yourself back into the playstate.

371
00:17:27,765 --> 00:17:30,244
Speaker 3: Whether you're playing a Grand Slam tennis final or you know,

372
00:17:30,525 --> 00:17:33,525
Speaker 3: a radio show going national, it's really really powerful if

373
00:17:33,565 --> 00:17:35,205
Speaker 3: you understand how to harness that as well.

374
00:17:35,325 --> 00:17:36,885
Speaker 2: Oh, it really helped me the last couple of weeks

375
00:17:36,885 --> 00:17:39,045
Speaker 2: thinking about launching the show nationally last week.

376
00:17:39,085 --> 00:17:39,845
Speaker 1: It was a big difference.

377
00:17:39,925 --> 00:17:43,205
Speaker 2: That Tell me about your work with Ash Barty, What

378
00:17:43,325 --> 00:17:44,085
Speaker 2: did that look like?

379
00:17:44,125 --> 00:17:46,645
Speaker 1: What were the big shifts you could help her with?

380
00:17:47,205 --> 00:17:49,205
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the first part, and Ash was probably the

381
00:17:49,245 --> 00:17:51,645
Speaker 3: most curious out that I've ever worked with, and also

382
00:17:52,125 --> 00:17:54,765
Speaker 3: the most stubborn and the most vulnerable.

383
00:17:54,885 --> 00:17:57,325
Speaker 2: Now, while they must all be, they must all the

384
00:17:57,325 --> 00:18:00,045
Speaker 2: outletes you've worked with, you know, he're all world class,

385
00:18:00,085 --> 00:18:00,965
Speaker 2: elite performers.

386
00:18:01,405 --> 00:18:02,285
Speaker 1: Surely they must.

387
00:18:02,125 --> 00:18:05,085
Speaker 2: Share some commonalities very much. So there must be stubborn,

388
00:18:05,245 --> 00:18:07,805
Speaker 2: very determined and probably quite hard on themselves as well.

389
00:18:07,925 --> 00:18:09,925
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolute, yeah. And there's a good stubborn and a

390
00:18:09,925 --> 00:18:12,045
Speaker 3: bad stubborn. There's a good stubborn who just want to

391
00:18:12,085 --> 00:18:14,565
Speaker 3: accept mediocrity and wants to get put themselves, and there's

392
00:18:14,605 --> 00:18:16,885
Speaker 3: a bad stubborn that doesn't want to lean in. And

393
00:18:17,085 --> 00:18:19,005
Speaker 3: you know, deep down she knows what she wants to do,

394
00:18:19,045 --> 00:18:22,165
Speaker 3: but she'll be stubborn towards it. But the first date

395
00:18:22,445 --> 00:18:24,765
Speaker 3: was Ash just getting to understand who she was, the

396
00:18:24,845 --> 00:18:27,725
Speaker 3: human being that was. She was so defined by a

397
00:18:27,805 --> 00:18:29,885
Speaker 3: ranking right unranked one hundred in the world or two

398
00:18:29,925 --> 00:18:31,645
Speaker 3: hundred in the world and so forth, and you know

399
00:18:31,965 --> 00:18:34,125
Speaker 3: that's a bit of a mind screw when you just

400
00:18:34,165 --> 00:18:35,965
Speaker 3: your whole identity is linked to a number and a

401
00:18:36,005 --> 00:18:38,765
Speaker 3: grading and so forth. So separating the person from the

402
00:18:38,765 --> 00:18:42,085
Speaker 3: persona is really important for Ash and identifying the beliefs

403
00:18:42,125 --> 00:18:45,365
Speaker 3: that are holding her back. And typically there's two core

404
00:18:45,405 --> 00:18:49,085
Speaker 3: beliefs Christians that hold not just athletes back, but teenagers back,

405
00:18:49,125 --> 00:18:51,685
Speaker 3: help all of us back. The first belief she had

406
00:18:51,725 --> 00:18:54,325
Speaker 3: to develop was to believe that she was worthy no

407
00:18:54,365 --> 00:18:57,325
Speaker 3: matter what, just as she is right, because then she

408
00:18:57,365 --> 00:19:00,325
Speaker 3: could trust whether she wins or loses a game of tennis,

409
00:19:00,405 --> 00:19:03,165
Speaker 3: or wins or losers in life, it's all good because

410
00:19:03,285 --> 00:19:05,885
Speaker 3: she's enough just as she is right now. She was

411
00:19:05,925 --> 00:19:08,244
Speaker 3: able to develop that quite easily just by remembering her

412
00:19:08,245 --> 00:19:10,965
Speaker 3: relationationship with her parents, who used to say to her

413
00:19:11,125 --> 00:19:13,485
Speaker 3: as a young girl, I love to what you play.

414
00:19:14,045 --> 00:19:16,245
Speaker 3: That was it. It was unconditional. It wasn't conditional whether she

415
00:19:16,285 --> 00:19:19,165
Speaker 3: won or lost. So reminding herself of those stories and

416
00:19:19,205 --> 00:19:21,485
Speaker 3: the connections that she has enabled her to have that

417
00:19:21,605 --> 00:19:25,645
Speaker 3: unconditional love. That's foundational for anyone, right because that thing

418
00:19:25,685 --> 00:19:27,565
Speaker 3: gives you the courage to live a life true to

419
00:19:27,605 --> 00:19:30,525
Speaker 3: you and to follow the second belief, which is to

420
00:19:30,565 --> 00:19:33,925
Speaker 3: believe in her potential and trust if she keeps chipping away,

421
00:19:34,125 --> 00:19:36,365
Speaker 3: things will turn out. I say to a lot of people,

422
00:19:36,525 --> 00:19:40,925
Speaker 3: for Ashbarty, winning Wimbledon wasn't success. Believing she was worthy

423
00:19:40,965 --> 00:19:44,365
Speaker 3: to win Wimbledon. That was her definition of success, and

424
00:19:44,405 --> 00:19:46,645
Speaker 3: that happened six months earlier at a cafe in Brisbane

425
00:19:46,645 --> 00:19:49,085
Speaker 3: called Moomos Right, So establishing the.

426
00:19:49,085 --> 00:19:52,565
Speaker 1: Beliefs where epiphanies happened over a.

427
00:19:52,485 --> 00:19:55,565
Speaker 3: Few beers and a few tears right. So once she

428
00:19:55,605 --> 00:20:00,005
Speaker 3: could develop belief in herself and learn self acceptance because

429
00:20:00,045 --> 00:20:02,445
Speaker 3: as you said, we're really hard on ourselves as human beings.

430
00:20:02,685 --> 00:20:06,165
Speaker 3: So she had to accept her imperfections, accept her body

431
00:20:06,165 --> 00:20:08,525
Speaker 3: image except where she is, except her you know, education,

432
00:20:09,085 --> 00:20:12,365
Speaker 3: So just accept everything about herself that she wasn't accepting.

433
00:20:12,725 --> 00:20:15,765
Speaker 3: And we're either accepting or with suffering. We don't again

434
00:20:15,845 --> 00:20:18,965
Speaker 3: call it suffering, right, So developing a self acceptance list

435
00:20:19,045 --> 00:20:24,245
Speaker 3: for Ash was groundbreaking and life changing for her because

436
00:20:24,285 --> 00:20:26,245
Speaker 3: it created a boundary to be kinder and gentler with

437
00:20:26,285 --> 00:20:30,205
Speaker 3: herself and not take herself or life so seriously. Then

438
00:20:30,245 --> 00:20:32,845
Speaker 3: she could develop confidence in her skills and learned to

439
00:20:32,885 --> 00:20:35,205
Speaker 3: accept the things she can't control, which is outcomes and

440
00:20:35,205 --> 00:20:38,845
Speaker 3: so forth, and focus on the things she can control. Intension, effort,

441
00:20:38,925 --> 00:20:41,205
Speaker 3: and mindset are typically the three things that in a

442
00:20:41,245 --> 00:20:43,725
Speaker 3: performance sense, we can control, and then develop a set

443
00:20:43,765 --> 00:20:46,685
Speaker 3: of words that reminds her of the best version of herself.

444
00:20:47,085 --> 00:20:49,845
Speaker 3: And for Ash then it was very much about treating

445
00:20:49,885 --> 00:20:53,685
Speaker 3: this life as a career as an adventure, right, and

446
00:20:53,725 --> 00:20:57,005
Speaker 3: then playing with it, and everywhere she went she was

447
00:20:57,005 --> 00:20:59,965
Speaker 3: trying to play and have fun, and she had practical

448
00:21:00,005 --> 00:21:04,085
Speaker 3: jokes with her team. You know, there's very famous. At Wimbledon,

449
00:21:04,205 --> 00:21:06,285
Speaker 3: she answered every question at press conference with a Disney

450
00:21:06,365 --> 00:21:08,485
Speaker 3: quote and see if the journalists would get you know,

451
00:21:08,645 --> 00:21:10,405
Speaker 3: and we gave her the quote before she walked into

452
00:21:10,445 --> 00:21:12,845
Speaker 3: the room. So she's just you know, she plays Where's

453
00:21:12,845 --> 00:21:16,005
Speaker 3: Wally at the Australian Open, you know, because their photos everywhere.

454
00:21:16,485 --> 00:21:18,965
Speaker 3: So just having fun with the journey for Ash was

455
00:21:19,005 --> 00:21:20,085
Speaker 3: really really important as well.

456
00:21:20,205 --> 00:21:24,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the most impactful stories for me was

457
00:21:24,725 --> 00:21:27,565
Speaker 2: the stories in the book about your work was Stephanie Gilmore.

458
00:21:28,285 --> 00:21:30,885
Speaker 2: And I knew who she was because you know, she's

459
00:21:30,925 --> 00:21:33,725
Speaker 2: won so many world titles, but the story about her

460
00:21:34,045 --> 00:21:36,325
Speaker 2: I wasn't familiar with the story of her being attacked.

461
00:21:37,845 --> 00:21:40,805
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us about that. This is an incredible story and.

462
00:21:40,765 --> 00:21:45,045
Speaker 2: Just how how she used it for growth, which I'm

463
00:21:45,085 --> 00:21:47,325
Speaker 2: not sure I would have been able to do that

464
00:21:47,445 --> 00:21:49,125
Speaker 2: suffering something as horrific as that.

465
00:21:49,565 --> 00:21:53,565
Speaker 3: Yeah, Steph was probably the first athlete that I worked

466
00:21:53,565 --> 00:21:56,685
Speaker 3: with back in twenty twelve, two thousand and thirteen, and

467
00:21:56,765 --> 00:21:59,045
Speaker 3: that kind of took me on this journey the first time.

468
00:21:59,045 --> 00:22:02,605
Speaker 3: I used a lot of these principles and yeah, Steph

469
00:22:02,685 --> 00:22:06,845
Speaker 3: reached out through her sponsors and her family and Yeah.

470
00:22:06,885 --> 00:22:09,765
Speaker 3: In twenty twelve, after winning her third world title, she

471
00:22:09,845 --> 00:22:12,565
Speaker 3: got attacked by a random drug addict just after Christmas

472
00:22:12,605 --> 00:22:14,845
Speaker 3: out of the front of her apartment, attacked her with

473
00:22:14,885 --> 00:22:17,005
Speaker 3: a hammer and broke her skull and broke her arm,

474
00:22:17,165 --> 00:22:21,765
Speaker 3: and she went off the tour obviously and lost her confidence,

475
00:22:21,765 --> 00:22:24,645
Speaker 3: but also lost her innocence and then had to find

476
00:22:24,685 --> 00:22:27,685
Speaker 3: a way back in. And so a lot of our sessions,

477
00:22:28,125 --> 00:22:31,365
Speaker 3: especially in twenty twelve and twenty thirteen, was just trying

478
00:22:31,405 --> 00:22:35,885
Speaker 3: to find meaning through this adversity, because you know, we

479
00:22:35,925 --> 00:22:39,165
Speaker 3: can't reframe history, but we can reframe our interpretation of

480
00:22:39,205 --> 00:22:41,725
Speaker 3: it and find a meaning and you know, find some

481
00:22:41,805 --> 00:22:44,085
Speaker 3: values or find out more about ourselves and so forth.

482
00:22:44,205 --> 00:22:46,085
Speaker 3: So she was so caught up in the persona of

483
00:22:46,125 --> 00:22:48,165
Speaker 3: who she was, Stephanie Gilmo, the surfer, but she wanted

484
00:22:48,165 --> 00:22:50,685
Speaker 3: to understand the person as well and be more purpose

485
00:22:50,765 --> 00:22:54,405
Speaker 3: driven and values based, still performance focused. So she went

486
00:22:54,445 --> 00:22:57,725
Speaker 3: on this incredible journey of self discovery and self reflection

487
00:22:57,805 --> 00:23:01,005
Speaker 3: and introspection and then went back on the tour and

488
00:23:01,005 --> 00:23:04,525
Speaker 3: then very quickly won another four five world titles and

489
00:23:04,565 --> 00:23:07,205
Speaker 3: now she's the greatest surfer of all time. But through

490
00:23:07,245 --> 00:23:11,365
Speaker 3: that process The reason your greatest growth comes from from

491
00:23:11,405 --> 00:23:14,325
Speaker 3: your darkest times, and Steph knows this very well, is

492
00:23:14,325 --> 00:23:18,405
Speaker 3: because it unlocks three things. It unlocks humility because it

493
00:23:18,445 --> 00:23:20,485
Speaker 3: just grounds you in the brutal facts of your reality.

494
00:23:20,525 --> 00:23:22,685
Speaker 3: You know, five seconds earlier, as she was a three

495
00:23:22,685 --> 00:23:25,045
Speaker 3: time world champion surfer and suddenly she's in hospital, right,

496
00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:27,485
Speaker 3: so you know, life is what happens while you're busy

497
00:23:27,485 --> 00:23:32,045
Speaker 3: making other plans. As Steph realized, once the humility grounds

498
00:23:32,085 --> 00:23:34,165
Speaker 3: you in the brutal facts of your reality and then

499
00:23:34,205 --> 00:23:38,485
Speaker 3: unlocks curiosity. Okay, what happens now? How am I going

500
00:23:38,525 --> 00:23:39,965
Speaker 3: to get through this? Do I want to keep surfing?

501
00:23:40,005 --> 00:23:41,765
Speaker 3: You do want to do something else? That curiosity that

502
00:23:41,805 --> 00:23:44,565
Speaker 3: we mentioned from the place though, but it also unlocks

503
00:23:44,565 --> 00:23:48,445
Speaker 3: your core values because Steph had to dive deep into

504
00:23:48,485 --> 00:23:52,245
Speaker 3: a deep source, deep energy source, to overcome this adversity

505
00:23:52,325 --> 00:23:57,205
Speaker 3: and find the courage to keep going. So for Steph,

506
00:23:56,365 --> 00:23:59,685
Speaker 3: was that was love, that was courage, and that was

507
00:23:59,765 --> 00:24:02,525
Speaker 3: play from memory were her three core values. That she

508
00:24:02,525 --> 00:24:05,445
Speaker 3: could ground herself with those values and say what does

509
00:24:05,485 --> 00:24:07,325
Speaker 3: love look like for me today? Or what does courage

510
00:24:07,325 --> 00:24:09,885
Speaker 3: look like for me today? And then armed with that

511
00:24:10,005 --> 00:24:12,525
Speaker 3: she can put herself back out into the world and

512
00:24:12,565 --> 00:24:14,845
Speaker 3: then again find her. She did a beautiful job of

513
00:24:14,845 --> 00:24:16,965
Speaker 3: finding her early play memories, which we talk about in

514
00:24:17,005 --> 00:24:18,365
Speaker 3: the book. In the book, when she was four years

515
00:24:18,365 --> 00:24:21,605
Speaker 3: old in the kitchen floor, her mum's pottering around the

516
00:24:21,685 --> 00:24:23,405
Speaker 3: kitchen and her dad's trying to teach her how to

517
00:24:23,405 --> 00:24:26,685
Speaker 3: play the ukulele, and then the words she came and

518
00:24:26,765 --> 00:24:29,205
Speaker 3: she goes back to that memory often is just to

519
00:24:29,205 --> 00:24:32,885
Speaker 3: remind herself to be playful and loved and carefree and

520
00:24:32,925 --> 00:24:35,565
Speaker 3: excited and so forth. So, yeah, she taps into the play.

521
00:24:36,085 --> 00:24:38,205
Speaker 3: The play stayed incredibly and there's a beautiful chapter in

522
00:24:38,205 --> 00:24:42,165
Speaker 3: the book about how she won her world title, turning

523
00:24:42,165 --> 00:24:44,365
Speaker 3: the whole thing into a game and having fun with

524
00:24:44,405 --> 00:24:46,365
Speaker 3: it and so forth. And yeah, it was just the

525
00:24:46,405 --> 00:24:48,925
Speaker 3: older we get, we think we have to take life seriously.

526
00:24:49,005 --> 00:24:51,685
Speaker 3: But there's this thing called neotny. When yotany means the

527
00:24:51,725 --> 00:24:53,965
Speaker 3: older you get, the younger you become. I think you've got,

528
00:24:54,325 --> 00:24:58,365
Speaker 3: you know, the niotny gene in you Christian as Steph does,

529
00:24:58,405 --> 00:25:00,685
Speaker 3: and it's a it's a superpower if you don't take

530
00:25:00,685 --> 00:25:01,925
Speaker 3: your life and yourself too seriously.

531
00:25:02,045 --> 00:25:06,244
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all know older relatives that actually grow. My

532
00:25:06,245 --> 00:25:08,725
Speaker 2: mother in law was someon of this. She grew young young.

533
00:25:09,125 --> 00:25:12,085
Speaker 2: As she got older, the su zestful life just got

534
00:25:12,125 --> 00:25:14,125
Speaker 2: greater and greater. It was incredible to see and be

535
00:25:14,165 --> 00:25:17,605
Speaker 2: around that energy source. She's running on a clean fuel

536
00:25:18,125 --> 00:25:21,405
Speaker 2: and I found her inspirational, whereas I know other family

537
00:25:21,405 --> 00:25:25,525
Speaker 2: members who didn't live like that, and they almost calcify absolutely.

538
00:25:25,605 --> 00:25:29,125
Speaker 3: And we talk in the book about the Blue Zones. Yes,

539
00:25:29,245 --> 00:25:33,245
Speaker 3: these five areas around the world where people live. It's

540
00:25:33,245 --> 00:25:35,445
Speaker 3: the largest amount of centurions where people live over one

541
00:25:35,485 --> 00:25:38,685
Speaker 3: hundred years old. And then we trace the reason they're

542
00:25:38,725 --> 00:25:41,525
Speaker 3: living over one hundred years old and being in the

543
00:25:41,565 --> 00:25:44,885
Speaker 3: play state and laughing and hanging out with friends and

544
00:25:44,925 --> 00:25:48,405
Speaker 3: you know, relationships, experiences and memories and you know, farming

545
00:25:48,445 --> 00:25:50,405
Speaker 3: your own food and making your own None.

546
00:25:50,285 --> 00:25:52,445
Speaker 2: Of that is about a resume or a job title

547
00:25:52,565 --> 00:25:53,525
Speaker 2: or the corner office.

548
00:25:53,565 --> 00:25:56,045
Speaker 3: Correct, correct, Yeah, you realize at the end of the day,

549
00:25:56,045 --> 00:26:00,405
Speaker 3: when you readefine success less from achievement and more to fulfillment,

550
00:26:00,965 --> 00:26:04,485
Speaker 3: you realize the importance of these intrinsic motivations. That is

551
00:26:04,525 --> 00:26:06,645
Speaker 3: such for me. That's probably the second most favorite chapter

552
00:26:06,645 --> 00:26:10,685
Speaker 3: in the book is understanding the correlation between play, purpose,

553
00:26:10,805 --> 00:26:13,965
Speaker 3: and potential and using those three states to get into

554
00:26:13,965 --> 00:26:16,325
Speaker 3: the flow stage because they're main effectively the same thing.

555
00:26:16,805 --> 00:26:20,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much in your book. Honestly, I wholeheartedly

556
00:26:20,965 --> 00:26:22,925
Speaker 2: recommend people by it. I think when a lot of

557
00:26:22,965 --> 00:26:25,525
Speaker 2: people say they feel stuck. I get a lot of

558
00:26:25,565 --> 00:26:28,325
Speaker 2: emails from listeners, and a lot of them suddenly it's

559
00:26:28,365 --> 00:26:30,565
Speaker 2: like they arrive at some point in their life band

560
00:26:30,605 --> 00:26:33,765
Speaker 2: where they don't really know who they are, and then

561
00:26:33,805 --> 00:26:36,765
Speaker 2: they don't know what they should be doing and the

562
00:26:36,845 --> 00:26:40,005
Speaker 2: two beautiful questions, but they can feel quite intimidating. One

563
00:26:40,045 --> 00:26:42,565
Speaker 2: thing that's very clear in your book is I think

564
00:26:42,685 --> 00:26:45,125
Speaker 2: most of us, when we get into that position in life,

565
00:26:45,165 --> 00:26:48,645
Speaker 2: you're obsessed with knowing the right path forward. What's clear

566
00:26:48,645 --> 00:26:51,885
Speaker 2: reading the book repeatedly is actually is going back towards yourself,

567
00:26:52,485 --> 00:26:56,244
Speaker 2: and you go back to yourself and there's clues that

568
00:26:56,285 --> 00:26:58,365
Speaker 2: were there waiting for you to come back to.

569
00:26:58,485 --> 00:27:01,325
Speaker 3: Very much so. Yeah, and we like to redefine who

570
00:27:01,405 --> 00:27:03,205
Speaker 3: you are as a human being first rather than a

571
00:27:03,245 --> 00:27:05,445
Speaker 3: human doing. And I think it's chapter three of the

572
00:27:05,485 --> 00:27:10,005
Speaker 3: book where we teach people how to reframe who am

573
00:27:10,005 --> 00:27:13,925
Speaker 3: I and tap into their imperfections and their hobbies and

574
00:27:13,925 --> 00:27:17,325
Speaker 3: their passions and the things that make them smile and

575
00:27:17,405 --> 00:27:19,205
Speaker 3: the things that they're in love with as a kid, Right,

576
00:27:19,525 --> 00:27:22,005
Speaker 3: you find things that you love to do and play

577
00:27:22,045 --> 00:27:24,165
Speaker 3: around with, and little smells and jeans you love to wear.

578
00:27:24,365 --> 00:27:26,245
Speaker 3: You redefine who you are from that place. As you said,

579
00:27:26,285 --> 00:27:28,565
Speaker 3: it's got nothing to do with achievement or having to

580
00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:31,285
Speaker 3: do something. And rather than saying, I know I'll be

581
00:27:31,405 --> 00:27:34,685
Speaker 3: successful when right, and we put ourselves into that.

582
00:27:34,645 --> 00:27:37,405
Speaker 1: Futures deferring satisfaction, aren't you.

583
00:27:37,525 --> 00:27:39,965
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know I'll be successful when I get that promotion.

584
00:27:40,125 --> 00:27:40,805
Speaker 1: Earn it? Yeah?

585
00:27:40,925 --> 00:27:43,365
Speaker 3: Is that when? Then syndrome? When I get there, then

586
00:27:43,405 --> 00:27:45,405
Speaker 3: I'll be happy, Which is a crazy way to live

587
00:27:45,445 --> 00:27:48,125
Speaker 3: our lives. It puts us into that gap mentality, and

588
00:27:48,205 --> 00:27:50,765
Speaker 3: the goalposts keep moving, so we'll never get there. Right,

589
00:27:50,885 --> 00:27:53,925
Speaker 3: will never be enough. But if you measure backwards, Christian,

590
00:27:53,965 --> 00:27:56,565
Speaker 3: if I gave you a sheet of paper and I said, right, oh,

591
00:27:56,765 --> 00:27:59,485
Speaker 3: write down all the little wins you've had when you

592
00:27:59,565 --> 00:28:02,244
Speaker 3: first started in radio, or when you first started as

593
00:28:02,245 --> 00:28:04,965
Speaker 3: a teenager to where you are now right sitting with

594
00:28:04,965 --> 00:28:07,485
Speaker 3: me today, And write down all the little wins that

595
00:28:07,525 --> 00:28:09,365
Speaker 3: you've had along the way. The little gains, a little

596
00:28:09,365 --> 00:28:11,725
Speaker 3: successes you've had from that moment to where you are now.

597
00:28:12,165 --> 00:28:14,125
Speaker 3: And you did this exercise, right, And I said, right,

598
00:28:14,165 --> 00:28:16,285
Speaker 3: I look at that sheet of paper, and you look

599
00:28:16,285 --> 00:28:19,045
Speaker 3: at this incredible journey that you've been on. And then

600
00:28:19,085 --> 00:28:22,045
Speaker 3: I say to you, how do you feel? Write down

601
00:28:22,045 --> 00:28:24,205
Speaker 3: the words the best descript how you feeling in this moment,

602
00:28:25,125 --> 00:28:27,925
Speaker 3: measuring their gains and measuring backwards rather than measuring forwards.

603
00:28:28,325 --> 00:28:31,885
Speaker 3: You'd say to me, you'd say, crowey, I feel grateful,

604
00:28:32,445 --> 00:28:36,685
Speaker 3: I probably feel successful, I feel happy, I feel confident,

605
00:28:37,405 --> 00:28:40,525
Speaker 3: And my favorite word at the moment is I feel content.

606
00:28:41,325 --> 00:28:43,005
Speaker 3: Now I'm not done yet, right, I've got all these

607
00:28:43,005 --> 00:28:45,805
Speaker 3: goals and dreams. But it means everything that Christian goes

608
00:28:45,885 --> 00:28:49,205
Speaker 3: after from this moment on is a want. It's not

609
00:28:49,285 --> 00:28:51,765
Speaker 3: a neat like if you need it for self validation,

610
00:28:52,125 --> 00:28:54,805
Speaker 3: that's emotional pressure. But if you want it but you

611
00:28:54,845 --> 00:28:57,965
Speaker 3: don't need it, you can be totally committed but fully detached.

612
00:28:58,325 --> 00:29:00,125
Speaker 3: And I think that's the opportunity for all of us

613
00:29:00,165 --> 00:29:01,325
Speaker 3: to read it. And the way to do that, by

614
00:29:01,325 --> 00:29:03,085
Speaker 3: the way, is rather than saying I know it would

615
00:29:03,085 --> 00:29:06,525
Speaker 3: be successful when you say to yourself, I know I'm

616
00:29:06,605 --> 00:29:10,885
Speaker 3: being successful when so if we workshop that, Christian O'Connor

617
00:29:11,005 --> 00:29:14,365
Speaker 3: might say, I know I'm being successful when I have

618
00:29:14,405 --> 00:29:17,765
Speaker 3: a belly laugh every day, when I genuinely care about

619
00:29:17,765 --> 00:29:20,965
Speaker 3: the audience, when we work as a team right to

620
00:29:21,085 --> 00:29:23,685
Speaker 3: help each other, when I get eight hours sleep, when

621
00:29:23,725 --> 00:29:25,725
Speaker 3: I see a beautiful sunrise, when I have a coffee

622
00:29:25,765 --> 00:29:29,125
Speaker 3: at my favorite barista. What you're doing is you're redefining

623
00:29:29,165 --> 00:29:33,045
Speaker 3: success for you and only you, so we become self determined.

624
00:29:33,565 --> 00:29:36,045
Speaker 3: I think today was so socially determined because we care

625
00:29:36,085 --> 00:29:38,525
Speaker 3: so much what others think about us. So true, right,

626
00:29:38,605 --> 00:29:41,125
Speaker 3: because we fear rejection of the tribe who have gone

627
00:29:41,205 --> 00:29:43,725
Speaker 3: so far that we stop. That's not our life task. No,

628
00:29:44,245 --> 00:29:47,605
Speaker 3: it's not your role in life to have to live

629
00:29:47,685 --> 00:29:50,485
Speaker 3: up to someone else's expectations, whether it's your parents, whether

630
00:29:50,525 --> 00:29:53,205
Speaker 3: it's the ratings, whether it's advertisers, whether it's your boss. Right,

631
00:29:53,885 --> 00:29:56,765
Speaker 3: but we think we do. That's not your role. You

632
00:29:56,805 --> 00:29:59,845
Speaker 3: don't have to validate yourself to anyone, prove yourself to anyone.

633
00:29:59,885 --> 00:30:03,085
Speaker 3: That's not your life tasks. What is your life task

634
00:30:03,245 --> 00:30:05,165
Speaker 3: is focusing on the things you can control and be

635
00:30:05,245 --> 00:30:07,485
Speaker 3: the best version of who you want to be. For you,

636
00:30:07,925 --> 00:30:10,365
Speaker 3: what your value you are, what your purpose is right,

637
00:30:10,405 --> 00:30:12,765
Speaker 3: what your goals and dreams are. Then we can stay

638
00:30:12,765 --> 00:30:15,045
Speaker 3: in our lane, right, and you can start with, well,

639
00:30:15,085 --> 00:30:16,005
Speaker 3: what are my taste buds?

640
00:30:16,085 --> 00:30:16,165
Speaker 2: Like?

641
00:30:17,445 --> 00:30:19,525
Speaker 3: What are my music tastes? What makes me laugh? What

642
00:30:19,565 --> 00:30:20,285
Speaker 3: makes me angry?

643
00:30:20,405 --> 00:30:20,605
Speaker 1: Right?

644
00:30:20,925 --> 00:30:23,845
Speaker 3: What makes me cry? You start to identify these things

645
00:30:23,925 --> 00:30:27,765
Speaker 3: you're studying to become self determined. You still care about others,

646
00:30:27,765 --> 00:30:29,365
Speaker 3: by the way, because we're a hard wire for connection,

647
00:30:29,765 --> 00:30:31,925
Speaker 3: but in terms of your authenticity and the courage to

648
00:30:31,965 --> 00:30:34,405
Speaker 3: be you, there's such a simpler way to live our

649
00:30:34,445 --> 00:30:37,885
Speaker 3: lives that removes all this emotional and economic and outcome

650
00:30:37,925 --> 00:30:39,885
Speaker 3: pressure that we're all getting distracted by.

651
00:30:40,085 --> 00:30:42,405
Speaker 1: What is your goal and your dream?

652
00:30:42,565 --> 00:30:49,845
Speaker 3: For your book, Oh well, I deliberately made chapter one

653
00:30:50,085 --> 00:30:52,485
Speaker 3: the Dreaded e Wort and to move from pressure to

654
00:30:52,525 --> 00:30:57,165
Speaker 3: freedom and around expectations, especially for teenagers. So getting back

655
00:30:57,165 --> 00:30:59,925
Speaker 3: to your question is because when you and I were

656
00:30:59,925 --> 00:31:02,925
Speaker 3: growing up, expectations used to mean something we can control

657
00:31:02,925 --> 00:31:05,685
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Because I can want the sun to

658
00:31:05,685 --> 00:31:07,445
Speaker 3: come up tomorrow, but I can't control it right, so

659
00:31:07,445 --> 00:31:10,525
Speaker 3: I can't expect it. But today, in particular for teenagers,

660
00:31:11,085 --> 00:31:14,085
Speaker 3: expectations are now loosely being defined as something we can't

661
00:31:14,125 --> 00:31:17,525
Speaker 3: control but still want to control it, which is also

662
00:31:17,565 --> 00:31:22,045
Speaker 3: the definition of pressure. So today's definition of expectation is

663
00:31:22,085 --> 00:31:24,805
Speaker 3: also the definition of pressure. Which is why when you're

664
00:31:24,805 --> 00:31:27,845
Speaker 3: watching sport or the Olympics or reality TV shows, you'll

665
00:31:27,845 --> 00:31:31,125
Speaker 3: always hear those two words in the same sentence. So

666
00:31:31,165 --> 00:31:35,005
Speaker 3: whenever someone tells me they're feeling pressure, almost always is

667
00:31:35,045 --> 00:31:38,125
Speaker 3: they have an unhealthy or unrealistic relationship between what is

668
00:31:38,125 --> 00:31:41,285
Speaker 3: expected of them and what isn't expected of them. And

669
00:31:41,325 --> 00:31:43,685
Speaker 3: as I said earlier, believing you have to live up

670
00:31:43,725 --> 00:31:46,565
Speaker 3: to someone else's expectations is not a teenager's life task.

671
00:31:47,405 --> 00:31:49,485
Speaker 3: The expectations they put on themselves and what they want

672
00:31:49,485 --> 00:31:51,925
Speaker 3: to be for them that is their life task. So

673
00:31:52,485 --> 00:31:54,885
Speaker 3: if a teenager picks up the book and they don't read,

674
00:31:55,125 --> 00:31:57,485
Speaker 3: and they don't get past any of the chapters, that's

675
00:31:57,525 --> 00:32:00,365
Speaker 3: the one chapter that my goal and dream is that

676
00:32:00,525 --> 00:32:05,765
Speaker 3: teenagers reframe what is expected of them and therefore remove pressure.

677
00:32:06,685 --> 00:32:09,085
Speaker 3: So therefore they have the freedom to live a life

678
00:32:09,165 --> 00:32:11,605
Speaker 3: true to themselves and have the courage to be themselves.

679
00:32:12,085 --> 00:32:15,445
Speaker 3: So and getting that obviously into the university system, I

680
00:32:15,485 --> 00:32:16,965
Speaker 3: mean I spent a bit of time last year with

681
00:32:17,045 --> 00:32:18,965
Speaker 3: some NBA teams, and I was doing some work with

682
00:32:19,005 --> 00:32:21,765
Speaker 3: the San Antonio Spurs and they've got a joint venture

683
00:32:21,765 --> 00:32:24,685
Speaker 3: with the University of Texas, the health division, and I

684
00:32:24,925 --> 00:32:28,045
Speaker 3: spent a bit of time with the ut Health Division,

685
00:32:28,365 --> 00:32:30,165
Speaker 3: and I was just making conversation with him. I said, right,

686
00:32:30,165 --> 00:32:32,365
Speaker 3: what's going on in a university? And they said, Ben

687
00:32:33,405 --> 00:32:35,365
Speaker 3: And by the way, in context, I just spent three

688
00:32:35,445 --> 00:32:38,325
Speaker 3: days with the coaches talking to them about how to

689
00:32:38,365 --> 00:32:42,965
Speaker 3: remove pressure from their athletes and from themselves by reframing expectations.

690
00:32:43,005 --> 00:32:43,205
Speaker 1: Right.

691
00:32:44,605 --> 00:32:46,165
Speaker 3: And then she said to me that she had been

692
00:32:46,205 --> 00:32:47,645
Speaker 3: the amount of kids in the US at the moment

693
00:32:47,725 --> 00:32:51,085
Speaker 3: are dropping out of colleges is at epidemic levels, and

694
00:32:51,085 --> 00:32:54,325
Speaker 3: it's costing universities billions of dollars, right, And I said,

695
00:32:54,325 --> 00:32:56,685
Speaker 3: what's the root cause? And she said pressure.

696
00:32:57,245 --> 00:32:57,525
Speaker 1: Yeah.

697
00:32:57,605 --> 00:32:59,605
Speaker 3: Whenever I hear that word, I get this radar. I

698
00:32:59,605 --> 00:33:02,445
Speaker 3: get obsessed by words. At the moment, pressure and expectations

699
00:33:02,525 --> 00:33:05,045
Speaker 3: is high on the agenda. And I said, emotional pressure

700
00:33:05,085 --> 00:33:07,965
Speaker 3: or outcome pressure and she said both, feeling I have

701
00:33:08,045 --> 00:33:11,445
Speaker 3: to live up to the expectations of my parents or society.

702
00:33:11,525 --> 00:33:13,685
Speaker 3: And what happens if I get a degree, and I'm

703
00:33:13,685 --> 00:33:16,525
Speaker 3: still don't get a job, right. But then she said

704
00:33:16,525 --> 00:33:19,125
Speaker 3: something that really really scared the hell out of me,

705
00:33:19,645 --> 00:33:21,365
Speaker 3: and I can't believe she said it second, not first.

706
00:33:21,405 --> 00:33:22,845
Speaker 3: She said, been the amount of kids in America that

707
00:33:22,885 --> 00:33:26,085
Speaker 3: are self harming at the moment in colleges is at

708
00:33:26,085 --> 00:33:29,125
Speaker 3: epidemic levels as well. And I said pressure, and she said, yes,

709
00:33:29,565 --> 00:33:32,005
Speaker 3: so because we think the goal is winning, you know,

710
00:33:32,005 --> 00:33:34,245
Speaker 3: we get the best scores, we get in the best universities,

711
00:33:34,245 --> 00:33:36,445
Speaker 3: we get the degrees and so forth, but we still

712
00:33:36,485 --> 00:33:38,965
Speaker 3: don't feel that we're enough. We still believe we have

713
00:33:39,005 --> 00:33:41,285
Speaker 3: to do something or live up to someone else's expectations.

714
00:33:41,285 --> 00:33:43,485
Speaker 3: And I don't want to hang around TI I'm sixty

715
00:33:43,525 --> 00:33:45,325
Speaker 3: five to feel that way. So they're checking out, and

716
00:33:45,365 --> 00:33:47,965
Speaker 3: it's just for me. It's just the greatest travel travesty

717
00:33:48,005 --> 00:33:51,845
Speaker 3: on the planet in terms of perspective of teenagers, because

718
00:33:52,165 --> 00:33:54,925
Speaker 3: when you and I were growing up, yes, extrinsic motivations

719
00:33:54,925 --> 00:33:59,645
Speaker 3: were dominant. Consumerism and returns like near the obsession that

720
00:33:59,645 --> 00:34:03,885
Speaker 3: it is today, especially with technology exacerbating this social comparison.

721
00:34:04,285 --> 00:34:06,525
Speaker 3: So what chances do they have, right if we don't

722
00:34:06,725 --> 00:34:10,565
Speaker 3: And schools aren't designed to help people become human beings right,

723
00:34:10,605 --> 00:34:13,725
Speaker 3: as we discussed, because of grading and so forth, becomes

724
00:34:13,765 --> 00:34:16,924
Speaker 3: achievement versus fulfillment. And if there's nowhere, there's no human

725
00:34:16,925 --> 00:34:18,525
Speaker 3: beings school where you can learn this, I'm kind of

726
00:34:18,525 --> 00:34:21,845
Speaker 3: hoping the book starts a conversation.

727
00:34:21,445 --> 00:34:23,925
Speaker 1: Why don't you set one up though a school?

728
00:34:24,125 --> 00:34:24,364
Speaker 2: Yes?

729
00:34:24,445 --> 00:34:26,805
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, my good friend LEYL. Stone has set up

730
00:34:26,805 --> 00:34:29,844
Speaker 3: a school as an experiment down in series and so forth,

731
00:34:29,845 --> 00:34:32,005
Speaker 3: starting to try these. My other good friend who's on

732
00:34:32,045 --> 00:34:35,245
Speaker 3: the front cover of this book, Andre Agacy. He spent

733
00:34:35,285 --> 00:34:37,045
Speaker 3: a lot of time. His shame story was all about

734
00:34:37,085 --> 00:34:40,285
Speaker 3: not feeling that he was smart enough right around education,

735
00:34:40,325 --> 00:34:43,325
Speaker 3: because he rebelled against education as a young boy. Once

736
00:34:43,365 --> 00:34:45,485
Speaker 3: he worked out his purpose in life had nothing to

737
00:34:45,525 --> 00:34:48,605
Speaker 3: do with playing tennis, but inspiring others to stay learning

738
00:34:48,605 --> 00:34:51,924
Speaker 3: in education, he set up one hundred and forty charter

739
00:34:51,965 --> 00:34:53,005
Speaker 3: schools across North America.

740
00:34:53,085 --> 00:34:56,525
Speaker 2: Dragsy story is beautiful. His book I recommend to so

741
00:34:56,565 --> 00:34:59,005
Speaker 2: many people. Open the first child. Does he hate you

742
00:34:59,045 --> 00:34:59,645
Speaker 2: playing tennis?

743
00:34:59,645 --> 00:35:02,405
Speaker 3: That's the first what he gives the punchline away on

744
00:35:02,405 --> 00:35:06,485
Speaker 3: the very first page. I hate tennis totally, totally. It

745
00:35:06,525 --> 00:35:09,285
Speaker 3: was really important for me to have Andrea on the

746
00:35:09,325 --> 00:35:12,645
Speaker 3: front cover of the book, and he's never done it before.

747
00:35:13,205 --> 00:35:14,805
Speaker 3: He did it once with Phil Knight in the back

748
00:35:14,805 --> 00:35:16,165
Speaker 3: of his book Shoe Dog.

749
00:35:16,165 --> 00:35:18,565
Speaker 2: Which is a pretty good company then the same company

750
00:35:18,605 --> 00:35:19,725
Speaker 2: as Phil Night, Shoot Dog.

751
00:35:19,725 --> 00:35:21,525
Speaker 3: It was more about what he said on the front

752
00:35:21,565 --> 00:35:25,245
Speaker 3: cover when he talks about you know what it means

753
00:35:25,325 --> 00:35:29,045
Speaker 3: to live a successful life and redefine success. Yes, and

754
00:35:29,125 --> 00:35:31,045
Speaker 3: I think he was the first athlete who for me,

755
00:35:31,165 --> 00:35:36,125
Speaker 3: truly embraced vulnerability, worked through his adversity and came out

756
00:35:36,165 --> 00:35:38,285
Speaker 3: the other sign and found purpose of meaning and redefine

757
00:35:38,325 --> 00:35:42,845
Speaker 3: success from that more purpose driven, potential driven and play driven.

758
00:35:43,645 --> 00:35:47,005
Speaker 3: And aster Parell the reason I was so excited to

759
00:35:47,005 --> 00:35:49,045
Speaker 3: have her on the front cover is she, for me,

760
00:35:49,205 --> 00:35:52,925
Speaker 3: is the first person who truly understood the correlation between

761
00:35:53,005 --> 00:35:55,805
Speaker 3: play and love. There's this school of thought and psychology

762
00:35:55,805 --> 00:35:59,645
Speaker 3: there's only two emotions, love and fear, and every other

763
00:35:59,765 --> 00:36:02,045
Speaker 3: emotion is a derivative of one of those two. Right,

764
00:36:02,085 --> 00:36:06,205
Speaker 3: So passionate, excitement, confident is love, anxiety, stress, worries, fear. Now, again,

765
00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:08,725
Speaker 3: it's above my pay grade to argue that point, but

766
00:36:08,765 --> 00:36:11,285
Speaker 3: it's the same with play and fear. Because I mentioned

767
00:36:11,285 --> 00:36:13,525
Speaker 3: the opposite of players at work, it's fear. So that

768
00:36:13,645 --> 00:36:18,605
Speaker 3: means the relationship between play and love is very, very similar.

769
00:36:19,085 --> 00:36:21,885
Speaker 3: Both of them are impossible to define. Neither of us

770
00:36:21,925 --> 00:36:23,965
Speaker 3: could define love for each other in a way that

771
00:36:24,005 --> 00:36:26,885
Speaker 3: we both agree with and same with play. Right, So

772
00:36:26,925 --> 00:36:29,285
Speaker 3: if that's the case, and for me this was a

773
00:36:29,325 --> 00:36:33,205
Speaker 3: revolution revelation in writing the book, I suddenly realized that, wow,

774
00:36:33,725 --> 00:36:38,045
Speaker 3: maybe love is the noun and plays the verb right.

775
00:36:38,085 --> 00:36:42,725
Speaker 3: Maybe love is the intention and plays the action, and maybe,

776
00:36:42,925 --> 00:36:48,964
Speaker 3: just maybe the Beatles were only half right. As human beings, yeah,

777
00:36:49,005 --> 00:36:52,005
Speaker 3: they're right, all we need is love, But as human doings,

778
00:36:52,485 --> 00:36:57,405
Speaker 3: all we need is play. So play mobilizes love. So

779
00:36:57,485 --> 00:37:00,725
Speaker 3: when you're laughing on air and your listeners are laughing

780
00:37:01,045 --> 00:37:03,605
Speaker 3: and you're in that play state, yes, we don't actually

781
00:37:03,605 --> 00:37:07,085
Speaker 3: do the correlation. It's actually an act of love. So

782
00:37:07,125 --> 00:37:10,165
Speaker 3: whether we're making jokes, make cakes, or making love, as

783
00:37:10,245 --> 00:37:13,125
Speaker 3: long as we're in the play state, right, our sense

784
00:37:13,125 --> 00:37:16,285
Speaker 3: of authenticity of humans is being realized. Now play could

785
00:37:16,325 --> 00:37:19,525
Speaker 3: be adaptation, right, and just zooming out to a bigger

786
00:37:19,565 --> 00:37:22,205
Speaker 3: picture and just observing that curiosity that you mentioned, so

787
00:37:22,645 --> 00:37:25,245
Speaker 3: understanding what it means for us, And as I mentioned,

788
00:37:25,245 --> 00:37:27,405
Speaker 3: in the book, no matter what happens, right for the

789
00:37:27,405 --> 00:37:29,445
Speaker 3: rest of your life, just keep playing, getting back to

790
00:37:29,445 --> 00:37:31,525
Speaker 3: the blue zones right. It will keep you out of

791
00:37:31,525 --> 00:37:33,085
Speaker 3: the fear state, and it'll just keep you younger.

792
00:37:33,965 --> 00:37:36,725
Speaker 2: It's a great book. It's out today. I cannot recommend

793
00:37:36,765 --> 00:37:39,245
Speaker 2: it enough. I generally mean, I've read it twice. There's

794
00:37:39,285 --> 00:37:41,045
Speaker 2: so much in it. But both of my daughters are

795
00:37:41,045 --> 00:37:43,165
Speaker 2: reading the first chapter moment, the nineteen twenty one the

796
00:37:43,245 --> 00:37:46,245
Speaker 2: right University, and they are exactly what you're talking about.

797
00:37:46,285 --> 00:37:47,205
Speaker 1: There's huge pressure.

798
00:37:47,605 --> 00:37:49,805
Speaker 2: I need to do this, I need to get these

799
00:37:49,845 --> 00:37:52,605
Speaker 2: grades or I'm somehow going to ruin the rest of

800
00:37:52,645 --> 00:37:54,844
Speaker 2: my life. And they're using the pea wood. When I

801
00:37:54,885 --> 00:37:56,925
Speaker 2: was nineteen, I didn't know about purpose. That was almost

802
00:37:56,925 --> 00:38:00,005
Speaker 2: like that word hadn't been invented. There was another thing.

803
00:37:59,285 --> 00:38:02,045
Speaker 2: It was a new thing that we've put on these kids.

804
00:38:02,045 --> 00:38:04,325
Speaker 2: Now you know where they need to work. It feels

805
00:38:04,325 --> 00:38:06,245
Speaker 2: like they've got have sorted out who they are and

806
00:38:06,245 --> 00:38:08,285
Speaker 2: the whole purpose in life by.

807
00:38:08,205 --> 00:38:09,165
Speaker 1: Ninety or twenty.

808
00:38:09,325 --> 00:38:11,205
Speaker 3: There's too much no exactly when.

809
00:38:11,285 --> 00:38:13,485
Speaker 1: You're still in some way freeguring out what you're doing

810
00:38:13,485 --> 00:38:13,685
Speaker 1: with you.

811
00:38:13,925 --> 00:38:15,404
Speaker 3: I am, and that's why I say to people. I'm

812
00:38:15,405 --> 00:38:17,285
Speaker 3: fifty seven years old. I'm still trying to work out

813
00:38:17,325 --> 00:38:19,405
Speaker 3: what I want to do when I grow up. Right now,

814
00:38:19,525 --> 00:38:22,325
Speaker 3: for young kids coming through and your your kids, by

815
00:38:22,365 --> 00:38:25,685
Speaker 3: the way, the perfect demographic for me while this can well,

816
00:38:25,685 --> 00:38:28,165
Speaker 3: the book is more a psychographic than a demographic. Yeah,

817
00:38:28,445 --> 00:38:31,725
Speaker 3: I want to start with teenagers. My generations already screwed

818
00:38:31,725 --> 00:38:33,165
Speaker 3: it up, but we can we can learn a lot

819
00:38:33,165 --> 00:38:36,245
Speaker 3: along the way, right So, yeah, it's very much. They're

820
00:38:36,245 --> 00:38:38,205
Speaker 3: the kind of they're the audience that we really want

821
00:38:38,205 --> 00:38:39,685
Speaker 3: to understand a lot of these principles.

822
00:38:39,885 --> 00:38:41,365
Speaker 1: So if there's a little mom and dad's listen to

823
00:38:41,405 --> 00:38:42,085
Speaker 1: list right now.

824
00:38:42,645 --> 00:38:46,685
Speaker 2: I cannot recommend enough Bencrow, Where the Light Gets In

825
00:38:46,925 --> 00:38:49,725
Speaker 2: is a fantastic book. Honestly, there's so much in it.

826
00:38:49,805 --> 00:38:51,605
Speaker 2: You should be really proud. It's going to help so

827
00:38:51,605 --> 00:38:53,285
Speaker 2: many people. Ben well done, Thank you, Christian.

828
00:38:53,365 --> 00:38:55,125
Speaker 3: Yeah, as I said, it's a privilege of a lifetime

829
00:38:55,245 --> 00:38:57,884
Speaker 3: to do what I do and share these principles. And yeah,

830
00:38:57,965 --> 00:39:01,005
Speaker 3: I mean, the pandemic created an opportunity for me to

831
00:39:01,125 --> 00:39:03,565
Speaker 3: kind of codify with the mojo a and this gap,

832
00:39:03,725 --> 00:39:05,565
Speaker 3: second gap year I've had has created the opportunity to

833
00:39:05,565 --> 00:39:07,805
Speaker 3: write the book. And put the principles. Then I'm going

834
00:39:07,805 --> 00:39:09,765
Speaker 3: to go hide under it somewhere for a few years.

835
00:39:10,325 --> 00:39:11,845
Speaker 2: Oh good luck with it. I know it's going to

836
00:39:11,885 --> 00:39:14,924
Speaker 2: be a huge success or it already is. I got

837
00:39:14,925 --> 00:39:17,445
Speaker 2: so much from it. It's out today, whether light gets in.

838
00:39:17,645 --> 00:39:18,605
Speaker 2: It's by Ben Crow.

839
00:39:18,685 --> 00:39:19,964
Speaker 1: Ben. Thanks for chatting to us today.

840
00:39:20,085 --> 00:39:24,125
Speaker 3: Pleasure Christian all the very best The Christian O'Connell Show

841
00:39:24,325 --> 00:39:25,045
Speaker 3: Podcast