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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, I want to encourage every parent to explicitly make

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Speaker 2: sure that they say to their children, you have a voice,

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Speaker 2: you have preferences.

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Speaker 3: And this is your chance to be heard.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 2: This is doctor Justin Colson. I'm the founder of Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com.

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Speaker 3: Do you and the host of.

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Speaker 2: Australia's number one podcast for parenting and family. It's called

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's Podcast. That's where you are right now,

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Speaker 2: and we're so glad that you've chosen to have a listen.

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Speaker 2: And thanks, thanks so much for being a part of

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Speaker 2: what we do here.

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Speaker 3: I'm here with Kylie. Hi, Kylie, say it, come.

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Speaker 2: On, say hello Hello, Look at me like I'm a weirdo,

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Speaker 2: because we've said hello to each other like seven thousand

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Speaker 2: times today we've been together, but no one else has

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Speaker 2: seen you. Kylie's my wife for those of you who

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Speaker 2: arekn you the podcast and also mum to our six

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Speaker 2: kids and podcast co host extraordmir Kylie. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if you're aware of this one, but we move into

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Speaker 2: our new house, we get out of the airbnb and

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Speaker 2: finally get into our house. Do you know how many

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Speaker 2: days it is I'm counting, I am not seventeen days,

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Speaker 2: seventeen days until we finally get into our new home. Hey,

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Speaker 2: today we've got to listen to question how do you

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Speaker 2: support kids? This one comes from Lydia by the way,

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Speaker 2: how do you support kids to be more assertive with

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Speaker 2: their peers? Lydia has highlighted that in a recent Q

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Speaker 2: and A that I did for our Happy Families premium members. So,

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Speaker 2: if you're a Happy Family's member, a premium member every month,

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Speaker 2: in fact often every fortnight if I can squeeze it in,

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Speaker 2: we have an hour long Q and A on zoom

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Speaker 2: where people can ask what questions they want to ask,

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Speaker 2: and I'll do my best to give everyone the very

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Speaker 2: best parenting hacks and shortcuts and tips to get their

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Speaker 2: parenting in the place that they want, like a shortcut

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Speaker 2: to get on track. And Lydia said, I want to

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Speaker 2: help my kids to be more assertive with their peers.

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Speaker 2: You spoke about kids saying no the other week, like

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Speaker 2: teaching them to stand up for themselves and say no,

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Speaker 2: and everyone's saying yes. But I have the opposite problem.

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Speaker 2: My five year old is very compliant and likes to

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Speaker 2: please people, which is not something that we've encouraged. I

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Speaker 2: think it's just innately the way he is because his

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Speaker 2: sister is the complete opposite. This means that he doesn't

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Speaker 2: speak up for what he wants or what he doesn't

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Speaker 2: like with kids at school and be his own person.

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Speaker 3: How do we help him? They love that question.

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Speaker 4: I think that, like most things, it starts at home. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, she's acknowledged she's got two children who are

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Speaker 4: completely different. Right, This is part of who he is.

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Speaker 4: His nature is to please people. But there's this powerful

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Speaker 4: opportunity that we have as parents to help our children

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Speaker 4: find their voice. And if they can't find it at home,

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Speaker 4: then they will never find it outside.

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Speaker 2: It's so important to highlight by what you've just shared,

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Speaker 2: and that is that. And Litti has pointed out as well,

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Speaker 2: two kids completely different approaches to life.

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Speaker 3: There are some kids who are happy to just.

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Speaker 2: Go along with whatever, and other children who have this

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Speaker 2: temperament that is really assertive, really willing to say I

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Speaker 2: have a problem with this, and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: do that. So, and we've watched it even in our

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Speaker 2: own family. We've got six children, and some of them

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Speaker 2: are very very clear on what they want, and others

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Speaker 2: are like, yeah, I'm pretty cruisy. I'll go along with

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Speaker 2: just about anything. But it's also worth highlighting here we

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Speaker 2: are talking about a five year old. We're only talking

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Speaker 2: about a little kid, and so I would like to

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Speaker 2: start by just talking about the idea of identity and development,

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Speaker 2: because Lydia has said, how do I help him to

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Speaker 2: be his own person? And it's true that innately some

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Speaker 2: people just are independent thinkers. But in terms of becoming

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Speaker 2: your own person, can I ask you, Kylie, how old

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Speaker 2: were you when you finally felt like you were your

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Speaker 2: own person?

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Speaker 4: I think, if I'm being completely honest, I think I'm

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Speaker 4: only just starting.

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Speaker 3: To get there. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Like literally, I'm almost forty five, and I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'm finally feeling comfortable in my own skin.

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Speaker 2: I kind of look at being your own person as

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Speaker 2: being humble enough and willing to be open to take counsel,

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Speaker 2: advice and ideas from other people, but also not being

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Speaker 2: worried about how other people ultimately choose to respond to

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Speaker 2: your decisions. And I reckon I was about forty I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'd written books, and I'd been on the TV, and

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Speaker 2: I've done all of these things that would make it

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Speaker 2: look like I was very much knowing who I was

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Speaker 2: and what I was about. But I feel like I

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Speaker 2: was about forty, and you're saying mid forties. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I distinctly remember in my late thirties or early forties

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Speaker 2: finally being at a point where I was like, I

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Speaker 2: love my parents, but I no longer care what they

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Speaker 2: think about the decisions that I'm making for my life.

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Speaker 2: I don't feel like I need to check in with it.

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Speaker 2: I know some people are there when they're sixteen, some

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Speaker 2: people are there when they're twenty four, But for me,

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Speaker 2: that's where I was. So I know that Lidy is

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Speaker 2: not saying until he's got his identity fully established, but

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Speaker 2: it's worth highlighting the push to help our children to

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Speaker 2: be their own person shouldn't come too fast and shouldn't

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Speaker 2: come too strong. In fact, there's something really beautiful about

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Speaker 2: having them continue to be a little bit dependent, a

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Speaker 2: little bit wanting to connect more and understand more and

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Speaker 2: be close more to you and to their peers.

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Speaker 4: Well, I also think there's there's two sides to every

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Speaker 4: quality that we can see the negative right to equality,

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Speaker 4: but there's also positive.

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Speaker 3: I like the way you said that.

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Speaker 4: And so often we see what we would consider weaker

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Speaker 4: qualities to be negative. Right, There is so much good

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Speaker 4: comes out of some of those more weak, soft qualities

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Speaker 4: in life. If everybody was so brash and harsh and

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Speaker 4: so dominating aggressive even yeah, yeah, yeah, we just we

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Speaker 4: miss out on some beautiful tender moments.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The only time that this becomes a real problem is

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Speaker 4: when our children are getting pushed into doing things they

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Speaker 4: don't want to do.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: There is nothing wrong with a child who's just really

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Speaker 4: cruisy and happy to go along with everybody else as

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Speaker 4: long as what's happening is appropriate. It becomes a problem

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Speaker 4: when the child then finds themselves in a situation they

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Speaker 4: can't get out of because they don't know how.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, really nicely said.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 3: Right after the break, we're going to share a couple

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Speaker 3: of ideas that we have.

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Speaker 2: That could help you if you want to make sure

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Speaker 2: that your child, even if they're a cruisy, easy to

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Speaker 2: get along with child who is quite happy to go

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Speaker 2: with the flow, how they can actually say no or

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Speaker 2: say yes.

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Speaker 3: At the times that are appropriate.

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Speaker 2: To make sure that they are assertive and look after

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Speaker 2: their own needs when it needs to be done. Imagine

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Speaker 2: a relationship where you felt seen, heard and valued. One

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Speaker 2: where as your partner enters the front door, they see

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Speaker 2: you and their eyes light up. A relationship like that

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Speaker 2: is a gift. If you don't have it now, you can.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's webinar Better Together gives you the insight,

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Speaker 2: tools and support you need to have a happier relationship,

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Speaker 2: Available now at the Happy Families webshop.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Famili's podcast, the podcast for a time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers. Now, this is such

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Speaker 4: an interesting conversation we're having. We've got two kids totally different.

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Speaker 4: You know. We've got this very assertive, very confident child,

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Speaker 4: big sister living in the same home, parented the same way.

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Speaker 4: And then we've got a little boy who is just

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Speaker 4: so readily compliant and happy to go.

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Speaker 2: Along and easily swayed and will follow the other kids

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Speaker 2: down the garden path to places that maybe he shouldn't go.

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Speaker 2: When you look online and have looked at all the

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Speaker 2: blogs and all the articles written by all of the

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Speaker 2: experts about assertiveness training, the typical thing that assertiveness training

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Speaker 2: teaches is this thing called an I message.

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Speaker 3: So you're supposed to talk to your kids about boundaries.

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to talk to them about what's right and wrong,

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Speaker 2: and what they feel good about and what they don't

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Speaker 2: feel good about. You're supposed to talk to them about

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Speaker 2: the power of saying no. And I think that that's

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Speaker 2: really and that's part of what we need to do

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Speaker 2: explicitly and in our modeling at home. But the central

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Speaker 2: element of most assertiveness training, both in business, in schools,

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Speaker 2: and in parenting, the central element is what they call

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Speaker 2: the eye message. You've probably heard the eye message. The

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Speaker 2: eye message is I feel and then you insert your emotion.

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Speaker 2: I feel upset or I feel bullied, or I feel

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Speaker 2: frustrated or sad when you and then you say what

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Speaker 2: they're doing, I feel this when you do that. Instead,

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Speaker 2: I want you to do this, or instead, I would

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Speaker 2: prefer to do this. It's like saying, I feel angry

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Speaker 2: when you tell me that I can't play, and I

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Speaker 2: want you to let me join in. But no matter

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Speaker 2: how many times do you repeat that sentence, and no

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Speaker 2: matter how hard you try to drill that to a

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Speaker 2: five year old, get them to practice and role play

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Speaker 2: that sentence over and over and over again. It's never,

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Speaker 2: never going to feel natural, especially to a kid. And

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Speaker 2: I think that it's actually kind of unrealistic to expect

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Speaker 2: that a child is going to use sentences like that

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Speaker 2: because they're already not assertive. Teaching them to use those sentences,

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Speaker 2: it's never going to feel natural, it's not going to

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Speaker 2: be authentic. They probably won't have the confidence to do it.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that it's actually a helpful thing to

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Speaker 2: do as a general rule.

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Speaker 4: Well, and how many children stop in their tracks when

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Speaker 4: that happens and says, oh, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, hey, thanks for telling me

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Speaker 2: that that's how you feel. Why don't you come and

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Speaker 2: join it? After all, that's not what five year olds do, folks.

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Speaker 2: So I just think let's move away from the standard

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Speaker 2: assertiveness training. It's like nineteen eighties psychology, quite frankly, and

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Speaker 2: we can do better. And that's what we need to

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Speaker 2: talk about for the next couple of minutes. This is

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Speaker 2: for parents who want answers on this.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting we've you know, you asked me the

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Speaker 4: question when did I start feeling like I came into

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Speaker 4: my own person? And you know the answer is only

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Speaker 4: really recently feeling really comfortable and competent in being able

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Speaker 4: to share how I feel about things without making it

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Speaker 4: about other people. This is actually my experience, this is

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Speaker 4: what I'm experiencing. And while the things that you are

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Speaker 4: doing may evoke emotion in me, at the end of

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Speaker 4: the day, it's my response, and so kind of trying

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Speaker 4: to work through that. And so when I think back

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Speaker 4: to growing up and even our early marriage, recognizing that

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Speaker 4: I felt I didn't feel confident to use my voice,

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Speaker 4: and I'm seeing it with my kids.

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Speaker 3: That's what I wanted to say. I'm so glad you

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Speaker 3: said that.

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Speaker 4: And so when I ask our children something now and

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Speaker 4: they say I don't know or I don't care, I

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Speaker 4: will actually stop and say I don't accept that answer.

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Speaker 4: I really want you to tell me what it is

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Speaker 4: that you want, momm I don't care. You can buy

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Speaker 4: whatever you know, you choose, just surprise me. It's like

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Speaker 4: there's one thing, there's this beautiful notion of surprise, but

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Speaker 4: this isn't a surprise thing because you know what I'm doing.

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Speaker 4: So I want you to have an opinion.

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Speaker 2: So it's okay to not have an opinion about a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of things. It's okay to go up for

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Speaker 2: dinner and say, you know what, let's just have whatever

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Speaker 2: we have, and I'm not bothered at all. You choose,

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Speaker 2: it's fine. But what's important is that voices are brought

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Speaker 2: to the fore. Now, if somebody can honestly say I

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Speaker 2: don't have an opinion on this, it's not important enough

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 3: To have an opinion, then that's great. Let it go.

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Speaker 2: But I want to encourage every parent to explicitly make

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Speaker 2: sure that they say to their children, you have a voice,

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Speaker 2: like use that sentence. You have a voice, You have preferences,

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Speaker 2: and this is your chance to be heard. In fact,

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Speaker 2: you should always be allowed to use your voice. This

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Speaker 2: is when children learn how to say no. This is

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Speaker 2: when children learn how to say yes and how to

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Speaker 2: express themselves. And the only I think the only way

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Speaker 2: that we can bring this out, especially if it doesn't

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Speaker 2: come naturally to a child, is to actively and expressly

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Speaker 2: encourage it at home and then talk about how when

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Speaker 2: they're at school or with their friends, if we're seeing

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Speaker 2: this happen, we want to ask them, how does it

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Speaker 2: feel to not have a voice? Would it be better

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Speaker 2: or worse to have a voice and in what contexts,

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Speaker 2: in what situations.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes it can be hard for them to see it

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Speaker 4: when it's happening to them, and I've found often it's

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Speaker 4: more powerful when they can actually see it happening to

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Speaker 4: someone else. You Know, the girls will come home often

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Speaker 4: and tell me about things that have happened in the

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Speaker 4: playground where a child's being bullied or mistreated or being

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Speaker 4: left out, and asking them how it made them feel,

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Speaker 4: and watching that unfold before them instead of them actually

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Speaker 4: living through it sometimes helps significantly.

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Speaker 2: So the last thing that I think we should mention

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Speaker 2: is that if we want our children to be assertive,

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Speaker 2: they need to know that there's a point to it,

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Speaker 2: that somebody will listen, that somebody will be responsive. And

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Speaker 2: so in our home, when our children are expressing themselves,

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Speaker 2: it's important for us to not dismiss their emotions. And

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Speaker 2: it's important for us to not disapprove of their emotions,

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Speaker 2: but rather to accept their emotional state and go deep.

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Speaker 2: I get curious, not furious. So if a child's having

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Speaker 2: a hard time and they do start to express themselves,

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Speaker 2: this isn't the time for us to say stop it,

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Speaker 2: be quiet, calm down, go to your room, because what

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Speaker 2: we do is we teach them not to assert their emotions.

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Speaker 3: What we need to do instead is we.

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Speaker 2: Need to move into that emotion and say, how you're

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Speaker 2: feeling really upset about this?

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Speaker 3: Tell me more.

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Speaker 2: It's that active encouragement of them expressing where they are

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Speaker 2: that will help our children to be assertive. So Lydia,

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Speaker 2: I hope that's helpful, and I hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we can help more kids to be assertive in healthy,

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Speaker 2: authentic ways that really builds their sense of value and worth.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Hey Tomorrow

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Speaker 2: on the podcast, Kylie, you might be with me. In fact,

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Speaker 2: for the next couple of days, you're not going to

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Speaker 2: be with me because we are replaying an interview that

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Speaker 2: I did on Instagram a little over a month ago

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Speaker 2: with somebody that I think is probably the world's best psychologist.

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to say it.

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Speaker 2: She's absolutely brilliant when it comes to kids teens. Her

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Speaker 2: name is doctor Lisa Demore. You can read all of

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Speaker 2: her stuff in the New York Times. She's got a

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Speaker 2: couple of New York Times best Selling Books, and we

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Speaker 2: had a conversation on Instagram a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 2: about vaping.

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Speaker 3: It was a, I.

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Speaker 2: Think, a valuable, valuable conversation, and so we're going to

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Speaker 2: replay an edited version of that conversation tomorrow because when

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Speaker 2: you've got kids in grade four, grade five, grade six

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Speaker 2: and onwards through high school who are nicking off to

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Speaker 2: the toilets and vaping or scooting down to the park

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Speaker 2: and vaping, and we know how dangerous it is, well,

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Speaker 2: this is the conversation we need to have. So that's

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Speaker 2: tomorrow with doctor Lisa Demore. We're talking about vaping. If

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Speaker 2: you like Maro and fol about making your family happier,

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Speaker 2: you can find it all at happy families dot com

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Speaker 2: dot a