Speaker 1: This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
Speaker 1: urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
Speaker 1: thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
Speaker 1: lifeline dot org dot AU. A twenty four year old
Speaker 1: devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a
Speaker 1: bags pack car running her daughters strapped into the backseat.
Speaker 2: Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
Speaker 2: to grab something.
Speaker 1: Panic.
Speaker 3: I Amy is dead, Sir aim his dead?
Speaker 1: Eight confusion about five minutes say sit n to a suicide?
Speaker 3: One hundred percent?
Speaker 4: This is Emercy.
Speaker 1: What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?
Speaker 5: The Truth about Amy?
Speaker 2: Episode seven?
Speaker 1: I'm Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 2: And I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 6: Sorry Gareth mate for what has happened in the past
Speaker 6: and now recently. It means I have no one around
Speaker 6: me because I don't want to be a burden on
Speaker 6: you or the others. No more so if you don't
Speaker 6: hear from me anymore, is because you don't need the
Speaker 6: drama that follows me. So sincerely, David R. Simmons. It
Speaker 6: breaks my heart, but trying to help someone has caused
Speaker 6: this issue.
Speaker 2: This is a message exchange on Facebook between David Simmons
Speaker 2: and Joshua Brydon after Amy died. The date is fifteenth
Speaker 2: of November twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7: David, Robert Simmons, you just made the first step right there.
Speaker 7: We are always here for you, but you are the
Speaker 7: only person that can take control of your life and
Speaker 7: move forward. It's not easy and you have a long
Speaker 7: road ahead of here, but you have our support in
Speaker 7: a near to listen.
Speaker 2: They've remained close over the past decade. Speaking of Brighton,
Speaker 2: we've recently learned he's currently been reminded after being charged
Speaker 2: for breaching a family violence restraining order. You'll hear more
Speaker 2: about that in a future episode. But there's two people
Speaker 2: who were there on the day who aren't a part
Speaker 2: of their tight knit group, Gareth's ex wife Rachel Mckerne
Speaker 2: and David's father, Robert Simmons. This episode concentrates on the
Speaker 2: evidence they have provided over the years, some of which
Speaker 2: is really telling and hasn't been given the attention it deserves.
Speaker 2: We'll start with Robert. This is a statement he made
Speaker 2: to Wa police the day after Amy died.
Speaker 8: I am fifty four years old and currently reside at
Speaker 8: twenty seven to eighty three Southwestern Highway, Serpentine. I am
Speaker 8: a self employed tree clearer. I have my own business.
Speaker 8: My business is run from my home address. On Thursday,
Speaker 8: twenty sixth of June twenty fourteen, at about five thirty pm,
Speaker 8: I was at my home address by myself. The home
Speaker 8: phone rang. I answered the phone and it was Saint
Speaker 8: John's Ambulance. The person asked if David Simmons was there.
Speaker 8: I said, he lives on the property. I said, that's
Speaker 8: my son. There are two houses on the property, or
Speaker 8: something like that. There seemed to be some confusion from
Speaker 8: the Saint John's Ambulance person as to what was going on.
Speaker 8: I said, I will go and check and call back.
Speaker 8: I got in my nest and four wheel drive and
Speaker 8: drove down my driveway to the house my son, David
Speaker 8: Simmons stays in. There are two houses on the property.
Speaker 8: I live in the one at the top, David lives
Speaker 8: in the one below. It is only six hundred meters
Speaker 8: along the driveway to the other house. David lives at
Speaker 8: the address with his partner Amy. I can't think of
Speaker 8: her surname. They have one child together and she is
Speaker 8: turning for this weekend. They have lived in the house
Speaker 8: together about three months. When I got to the house,
Speaker 8: I parked next to David's white Subaru brumby Yute. I
Speaker 8: noticed Amy's white Commodore wasn't there. I got out of
Speaker 8: my car, and as I walked through the gate toward
Speaker 8: the front door, I called out David. There was no answer.
Speaker 8: I walked to the entry door, which leads to the kitchen.
Speaker 8: I noticed the kitchen was messy. I also noticed straightway
Speaker 8: the smell of gunpowder. I paused at the kitchen and
Speaker 8: didn't see anyone. I noticed the bedroom one door was
Speaker 8: open about six to eight inches. I walked to that
Speaker 8: door and pushed it open and entered the room. I
Speaker 8: saw two guns on the floor. They were next to
Speaker 8: the bed as you walk in. One of the guns
Speaker 8: was a side by side double barrel stainless decks all
Speaker 8: four ten shotgun. I knew the gunpowder smell was from
Speaker 8: the four ten. The other gun on the floor was
Speaker 8: a twenty two caliber rifle. I know it's Amy's gun
Speaker 8: because it's pink. I have seen it once before when
Speaker 8: they first got it. I did not touch the twenty two.
Speaker 8: I bent down and picked up the four ten. I
Speaker 8: cracked it open, which means I pushed the lever and
Speaker 8: broke it open to check for ammunition. I pulled out
Speaker 8: one cartridge which was spent. It was red in color
Speaker 8: with a brass top. I stood it on the bedside table.
Speaker 8: I didn't check if it was a solid round or anything.
Speaker 8: I pulled out the other cartridge and it was full,
Speaker 8: as in it had not been fired. It was the
Speaker 8: same color. I also stood that one on the bedside table.
Speaker 8: I closed the gun and put it back on the floor.
Speaker 8: I think when I saw the rifles on the floor,
Speaker 8: the barrels were both pointing toward the door where I entered.
Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure I put the gun down the same
Speaker 8: way I found it. I didn't touch the trigger on
Speaker 8: either of the rifles on the floor. As I put
Speaker 8: the shotgun down, something caught my attention and I closed
Speaker 8: the bedroom door. I looked behind the door and saw
Speaker 8: blood spatter on the wall behind the door. I saw
Speaker 8: some legs and it was a small person wearing black tights.
Speaker 8: There was a gray or car key jacket over the
Speaker 8: person's head and upper body. I pulled the jacket off
Speaker 8: and saw that the person was Amy. Amy looked like
Speaker 8: she had been shot. I didn't look at her for long.
Speaker 8: I put the jacket back down on her and left
Speaker 8: the room. My heart began racing. I knew then that
Speaker 8: I shouldn't have touched the gun. I went outside the house.
Speaker 8: I was fumbling with my mobile phone. I know the
Speaker 8: phone reception is not good in certain areas, so I
Speaker 8: walked to the front area of the house, where I
Speaker 8: knew I could get mobile reception. I caught triple zero
Speaker 8: and spoke to the police. I told them what I
Speaker 8: had found. I didn't go back into the house after that.
Speaker 8: I went and got back in my car and drove
Speaker 8: down to the front gate to wait for the police.
Speaker 8: When I got to the front gate, I saw my son,
Speaker 8: David's friend Gareth. Gareth was standing outside my front gate
Speaker 8: near the highway on the verge. He was looking shell shocked.
Speaker 8: I pulled up in the car and I said, what
Speaker 8: the hell's happening up there. Gareth looked at me, stunned
Speaker 8: and said, she shot herself. She shot herself. I said,
Speaker 8: who covered up? Gareth said I did. At that moment,
Speaker 8: the police pulled up. The police asked move out of
Speaker 8: the way, as I was blocking the entrance. I asked, Gareth,
Speaker 8: where's David. Gareth said, he's dropping the girls off at Nancy's.
Speaker 8: Nancy is Amy's mum. Gareth was wearing shorts like board
Speaker 8: shorts and a jumper. I can't recall what color his
Speaker 8: clothing was, but it wasn't bright. I would have remembered that.
Speaker 8: I think Gareth had shoes on runners with socks. Gareth
Speaker 8: is about mid twenty to thirty years old, about five
Speaker 8: foot ten tall and about medium to well built build,
Speaker 8: white skin. Gareth looked scruff and has a day's look
Speaker 8: on him. It was just on dusk by this time,
Speaker 8: so it was getting dark. Gareth did not have his
Speaker 8: car with him. I was wearing blue jeans and a
Speaker 8: white T shirt under a black jumper. I had my
Speaker 8: black casual shoes on their Mountain Design brand. They are
Speaker 8: sized ten. The police drove up the driveway to the house.
Speaker 8: Two ambulances had also arrived, and they all drove up
Speaker 8: to David's house. I followed behind in my car. When
Speaker 8: we got to the house, the police asked me if
Speaker 8: I could get rid of the dog. David's dog was
Speaker 8: under the house. It was barking. It's a big dog.
Speaker 8: They use it for pig hunting. I couldn't get the
Speaker 8: dog because it wouldn't come out from under the house.
Speaker 8: The dog stopped barking, and the police told me to
Speaker 8: go back up to my house and wait there, which
Speaker 8: I did. I went home and made coffee. I called
Speaker 8: my brother Neville. I called Bridget, who is my wife,
Speaker 8: but we're now separated. I also called David's mother, Evelyn,
Speaker 8: who is my first ex wife. I called them on
Speaker 8: my mobile phone. I think about eleven pm. Police came
Speaker 8: up to the house and I spoke with them. They
Speaker 8: gave me a receipt for firearms they were taking away.
Speaker 8: The police told me they thought Amy had taken her
Speaker 8: own life. It was not long after police had been
Speaker 8: at my door David and Gareth came to my place.
Speaker 8: I stood at the front door for a couple of minutes.
Speaker 8: They didn't come into my place. Both David and Gareth
Speaker 8: were looking traumatized. David was pretty teary. David was going
Speaker 8: to go and stay at Gareth's house. I told Gareth
Speaker 8: not to work the next day and to stay with
Speaker 8: David and look after him. I told them both not
Speaker 8: to go drinking. My son was wearing board shorts as
Speaker 8: well and boots. I think I can't recall what top
Speaker 8: he had on. Again, I don't think it was bright colors.
Speaker 8: David and Gareth left my place in the Subaru brumby
Speaker 8: about eleven thirty pm or midnight. I can't remember if
Speaker 8: the police came to my place first or if it
Speaker 8: was David and Gareth. David came back to my place
Speaker 8: about eight am this morning. He was still with Gareth.
Speaker 8: I spoke with David about what happened. David only said
Speaker 8: it isn't right. How could you do that something similar? Again,
Speaker 8: I didn't think it was right to ask more questions
Speaker 8: about what had happened. David only stayed a short time.
Speaker 8: I told David Nancy had rung. Nancy wanted some clothes
Speaker 8: and things for the kids. I told David to leave
Speaker 8: the commodore down on the highway and she can come
Speaker 8: and pick it up.
Speaker 3: The commodore had all the things for the kids in it.
Speaker 2: Robert is referring to Amy's car, which she had already
Speaker 2: packed with the kid's belongings.
Speaker 8: I told David not to go into the bedroom where
Speaker 8: Amy had been. I didn't go with David down to
Speaker 8: the house David told me the commodore was already packed up,
Speaker 8: and then he didn't need to go in the house.
Speaker 3: The police had given me a phone number for a
Speaker 3: cleaning lady.
Speaker 8: I rang her in the morning and left a message.
Speaker 8: The cleaner rang back about eight thirty am. I arranged
Speaker 8: for her to come and clean the house. She got
Speaker 8: there about ten am. The police came later and I
Speaker 8: spoke with him. I really don't know much about David
Speaker 8: and Amy's relationship. I never really spoken much to Amy,
Speaker 8: but she seemed nice enough when I have spoken to her.
Speaker 8: Amy actually looked after my horses. When she was living
Speaker 8: with David in the house. Amy seemed like a good
Speaker 8: The kids were always.
Speaker 3: Washed and dressed.
Speaker 8: David and Gareth had been doing a bit of drinking
Speaker 8: and pig shooting recently. I gave David some advice and
Speaker 8: recently told him to pull his head in a bit
Speaker 8: regarding the drinking. I had heard over the years that
Speaker 8: Amy was a bit wild. I heard about an incident
Speaker 8: from one of David's mates that Amy stabbed David in
Speaker 8: the neck with a car key, but I never saw this.
Speaker 8: I have never seen or heard Amy and David fighting
Speaker 8: or anything. But I am about six hundred meters away.
Speaker 8: David was quite into his guns. David liked to go
Speaker 8: pig hunting. Most of the time. They don't even take
Speaker 8: the guns. They go out with a knife and a
Speaker 8: few dogs.
Speaker 2: Four days later, on the of June twenty fourteen, Robert
Speaker 2: Simmons makes the following additions to his statement.
Speaker 8: Sometime in the afternoon on Thursday twenty six June twenty fourteen,
Speaker 8: I was at my home address when I heard the
Speaker 8: sound of two gunshots. The shots sounded like they came
Speaker 8: from a twenty two. I can't recall the exact time
Speaker 8: I heard these shots, but it would have been about
Speaker 8: half an hour before I received a telephone call from
Speaker 8: the ambulance. I didn't think anything about the shots, as
Speaker 8: my son David and his partner Amy and their friends
Speaker 8: put up targets and shoot them often. It was only
Speaker 8: when I got a phone call from the ambulance that
Speaker 8: I thought David had been shot.
Speaker 2: And again, this is what Robert Simmons told police in
Speaker 2: a statement on fourteenth of January twenty nineteen. We've only
Speaker 2: included changes.
Speaker 8: David had been working for me doing land clearing and
Speaker 8: wood shopping, but there wasn't much work around at the time.
Speaker 8: I didn't know Amy very well. I didn't socialize with
Speaker 8: them at all. I never went in their house, just
Speaker 8: inside the shed. David and Amy didn't have an ideal relationship.
Speaker 3: It was a bit up and down.
Speaker 8: They had split up previously about a year before, but
Speaker 8: not for very long. I noticed David had a mark
Speaker 8: on his neck one day and I asked what it was.
Speaker 8: David told me that Amy had stabbed him with some keys.
Speaker 2: Hang on a minute five years ago. He said that
Speaker 2: he'd only heard this from one of David's mates, and
Speaker 2: he never said he'd seen a wound moving on.
Speaker 8: A couple of the guys that work for me, Tommy,
Speaker 8: they had called into David and Amy's house in Pinjarra
Speaker 8: and Saura go off. David asked me if I could
Speaker 8: give Amy a letter to get a gun for Amy.
Speaker 8: I was a little concerned about giving the letter to
Speaker 8: Amy for her to get a gun, as she might
Speaker 8: shoot David due to her temper, and that she could
Speaker 8: go off quite easily. I told David this, but I
Speaker 8: gave him the letter anyway, and she got a pink
Speaker 8: twenty two. David was a bit of a drinker, more
Speaker 8: like he had a bit of a drinking problem. He
Speaker 8: had a friend back then, Gareth Price, who I didn't like,
Speaker 8: as David and Gareth would drink a fair bit. I
Speaker 8: knew David had used drugs back then, but didn't know
Speaker 8: it was meth. I learned it was meth he was
Speaker 8: using later on.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that while Robert Simmons was harsher on Amy
Speaker 2: this time, even as he admits he didn't know her,
Speaker 2: he also discusses his son's issues.
Speaker 8: On the twenty sixth June twenty fourteen, I was in
Speaker 8: my office. I'm at home most of the time, nearly
Speaker 8: every day. There would be no reason that David would
Speaker 8: think I wasn't home. I was sitting in my office
Speaker 8: when I heard three shots. It was sometime in the afternoon.
Speaker 2: It's worth noting here Robert Simmons says it's three shots now,
Speaker 2: not two.
Speaker 8: I didn't think anything of it, as David and his
Speaker 8: friends were always shooting down at the house. I used
Speaker 8: to tell them to stop shooting, leave the parrots alone.
Speaker 8: Use the twenty two as it doesn't make as much noise.
Speaker 8: I was sitting in my office when the landline rang
Speaker 8: and it was the SJA Saint John's Ambulance saying someone
Speaker 8: had rung for an ambulance. My immediate thought was David
Speaker 8: was running around in the bush trying to ring an ambulance.
Speaker 8: I went into the house and as I stood near
Speaker 8: the kitchen area, I could see into the main bedroom.
Speaker 8: As I looked, I saw a gun on the floor.
Speaker 8: Straight away, I knew it.
Speaker 3: Was the four ten on the floor.
Speaker 8: The door of the bedroom was open enough for me
Speaker 8: to walk straight in. I didn't have to shove the
Speaker 8: door to get in. I've been around guns all my life,
Speaker 8: and the first thing you do is pick them up
Speaker 8: make sure they are clear. I picked up the four
Speaker 8: ten to see if it had been fired. I knew
Speaker 8: it had been fired. As I turned from putting the
Speaker 8: cartridges on the table, I saw Amy's foot from behind
Speaker 8: the bedroom door. It was just the foot that I
Speaker 8: saw a black boot. I didn't notice the handle on
Speaker 8: the bedroom door was missing. I do know the handles
Speaker 8: used to always come off on the doors. I didn't
Speaker 8: put the handle back on the door. I rang Triple
Speaker 8: zero and made a call to the police. When I
Speaker 8: spoke to police, I said, I think my son is
Speaker 8: shot her. My immediate thought that David shot Amy was
Speaker 8: because the gun was lying on the floor and a
Speaker 8: jacket was over Amy's head. I told the police I
Speaker 8: would meet them at the gate, and when I got
Speaker 8: to the gate, I saw David's friend Gareth. He told
Speaker 8: me what happened, which was a bit of a relief
Speaker 8: as I knew then David hadn't shot Amy. The police
Speaker 8: came up to the house around eleven PM and told
Speaker 8: me it was suicide. David and Gareth arrived at my
Speaker 8: house shortly after. I tried to get David to stay,
Speaker 8: but he didn't want to stay. When arrived the next day,
Speaker 8: I told him to take Amy's car, the white Commodore,
Speaker 8: down to the gate for Nancy to pick up. I
Speaker 8: didn't know if David went into the house or not.
Speaker 8: Major crime detectives came to see me a couple of
Speaker 8: days later, asking about the bullets, as the bullets were missing.
Speaker 8: That's when I went down to the house to help
Speaker 8: them look for the bullets. I did eventually talk to
Speaker 8: David about what happened. I told him i'd only ask
Speaker 8: him once. I asked David if he had anything to
Speaker 8: do with Amy being shot. David said no, I then
Speaker 8: told David to tell me word for word what happened.
Speaker 8: David told me him and Gareth were going somewhere. David
Speaker 8: said Amy smashed up the fish tanks that had.
Speaker 3: Lizards in it.
Speaker 8: Amy packed the car up as she was going to
Speaker 8: her mum's and David and Gareth were going out. Amy
Speaker 8: went into the bedroom to pack up, and David put
Speaker 8: the kids in the car. David went back into check
Speaker 8: on Amy to ask if she was ready. The door
Speaker 8: of the bedroom was shut. He knocked on the door
Speaker 8: and asked if she was ready. Amy yelled out to
Speaker 8: give her a bit more time, went back out to
Speaker 8: the car, and that's when he heard a muffled shot
Speaker 8: and ran inside and seen what had happened, ran back
Speaker 8: outside and collapsed. That's when I think Gareth must have
Speaker 8: gone inside. I never asked him again what happened. I
Speaker 8: looked after him for a few days after Amy's death,
Speaker 8: giving him some good meals, but David drifted away after
Speaker 8: a while and then moved out.
Speaker 1: David is Robert Simmons' only son. Robert says he offered
Speaker 1: David the smaller house on the property, which was halfway
Speaker 1: between his house and the Southwestern Highway after David lost
Speaker 1: his job. The house is only ten meters long and
Speaker 1: six meters wide, not much bigger than a caravan really,
Speaker 1: but David and Amy didn't have to pay rent, water
Speaker 1: or electricity. This is Robert Simmons at the inquest held
Speaker 1: in February twenty twenty one.
Speaker 8: That house was empty, so I thought I would help
Speaker 8: them out financially. I said, look, just have it, get
Speaker 8: yourselves together. It was hard to kids, and.
Speaker 1: All that made harder by David not wanting Amy to work. However,
Speaker 1: as mentioned earlier, Amy wanted to break free of her
Speaker 1: captivity and restore her independence. Her computer files showed she
Speaker 1: had updated her resume and was applying for jobs. Counsel
Speaker 1: assisting Sarah Tyler asks Robert about the place Amy died
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen and how the phone reception was there.
Speaker 3: Not good.
Speaker 8: I had to run down to the bottom house when
Speaker 8: I made the call to triple zero, because I knew
Speaker 8: exactly where you could stand and get reception.
Speaker 9: Did you have a landline at your house? Yes, I did,
Speaker 9: but there wasn't a landline at David and Amy's.
Speaker 8: That's correct. I'd put that little transportable home there. It's
Speaker 8: a park home. You join it together, and it was
Speaker 8: very small. I lived in it with two kids while
Speaker 8: we built the house at the top. I was sitting
Speaker 8: in my office and it must have been a warmer
Speaker 8: day that day or something, even though it was winter.
Speaker 8: I had my window open and I was sitting there
Speaker 8: and I heard a couple of gun shots or two
Speaker 8: or three. It was a twenty two. I've been around
Speaker 8: guns all my life.
Speaker 10: I could sort of tell, you know, you could tell
Speaker 10: the difference.
Speaker 8: I knew it was a shotgun or a three to eight,
Speaker 8: or I knew what caliber of guns they had down
Speaker 8: at the house. So I heard a couple of shots
Speaker 8: and I thought nothing of it.
Speaker 1: Deputy Corridor Sarah Linton.
Speaker 5: And you said you thought they were twenty two shots?
Speaker 5: Is that right?
Speaker 3: They were twenty two? Yes, I guarantee it.
Speaker 8: They weren't the big gun and they weren't the shotgun,
Speaker 8: so I knew they had three guns.
Speaker 10: So do you know what time that would have been?
Speaker 3: I was just I don't know.
Speaker 8: It wasn't far before because the ambulance people wrung me
Speaker 8: about the call that had been made.
Speaker 1: Robert stops himself here, wanting to tell the court. Something
Speaker 1: else first, an event that occurred before David and Amy
Speaker 1: moved to his property, but after David started working for him.
Speaker 1: It involved a few of his other employees dropping him
Speaker 1: off at his Pinjarra home after work one night.
Speaker 3: On the Monday.
Speaker 8: A couple of the boys said they had gone there
Speaker 8: for a beer or something, but apparently that night when
Speaker 8: they went in there they said, never seen Amy went
Speaker 8: into a rage or something. Well, I didn't ask why
Speaker 8: you know you have these things with young people. I
Speaker 8: had better things to do. And then a bit later on,
Speaker 8: I was in the car with David and he had
Speaker 8: a big mark on his neck here and I said,
Speaker 8: what happened to your neck? And he said, Amy stabbed
Speaker 8: me in the neck with the car keys. And I said,
Speaker 8: that's not acceptable, really, because if you had have stabbed
Speaker 8: her in the neck with the car keys, you would
Speaker 8: be in assault in jail. That shouldn't be going on.
Speaker 5: Just on that, just on the point where you were
Speaker 5: talking about the boys mentioning seeing Amy in a bit
Speaker 5: of a rage. Do you know who those boys were?
Speaker 3: One of them was called Clinton Clinton Simons.
Speaker 5: Apart from the incident that was described with Amy stabbing
Speaker 5: David with the keys. Did you ever see or hear
Speaker 5: about any other arguments between them?
Speaker 8: No, not in the most part of it. If ever
Speaker 8: I saw Amy, she was always polite. I never had
Speaker 8: a lot to do with Amy, and that I left
Speaker 8: them to it. But she was always polite, nice to me,
Speaker 8: and you know, seem caring with the kids and typically
Speaker 8: young mum.
Speaker 5: Have you ever had any issues with him being violent
Speaker 5: to women?
Speaker 3: No, not that I know of.
Speaker 8: No, No, I've never seen him violent to a woman. Know,
Speaker 8: I've heard of different cases. Obviously they've had arguments, but
Speaker 8: that's about it. I just let it go because I
Speaker 8: think most relationships can't have a fiery argument.
Speaker 5: Now and then, did that relate to Amy or someone else?
Speaker 8: No, I think it was only with Amy. I think
Speaker 8: because they've actually split up a while earlier and they
Speaker 8: had a.
Speaker 3: Bit of that's where the volatile come in. And they
Speaker 3: had actually split.
Speaker 8: Up for a while when they were still in Pinjarra,
Speaker 8: and they got back together, as couples often do, come
Speaker 8: and drift apart, have domestics.
Speaker 3: They're only young.
Speaker 5: How would you described their relationship before Amy died?
Speaker 8: Look, they did a fair bit together. They went out,
Speaker 8: they would go horse riding. We had fish in the dam.
Speaker 8: They were fishing. They had little quad bikes. They loved
Speaker 8: it there, you know. And Amy was appreciative. She said,
Speaker 8: I'm a lot closer to my friends and Armadale now,
Speaker 8: like I can get to Armadale a lot easier. I'm
Speaker 8: not spending the fuel all the way to Pinjarra because
Speaker 8: it's about halfway, I suppose. And she said, we really
Speaker 8: love it. It's quite out of the way.
Speaker 3: And she loved it.
Speaker 1: Just as the deputy coroner steers him back towards the
Speaker 1: day of Amy's death, Robert then remembers another story.
Speaker 8: I'll just take one step back again. Just before that,
Speaker 8: Gareth and David had come down to give me a
Speaker 8: bit of a hand. One morning, I had to chop
Speaker 8: some trees up for the next door neighbor. So we
Speaker 8: had done them, and Gareth and I and David went
Speaker 8: back up to the little house and Amy was there
Speaker 8: with a friend. Gareth and David did the little job
Speaker 8: next door. And that was about ten o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 8: and I was there and I took the cap off
Speaker 8: and wanted to have a drink. And I said, that's
Speaker 8: a bit early, you know, And I remember saying to
Speaker 8: Amy and Gareth's wife, I said, I wouldn't put up
Speaker 8: with that kind of thing, you know, I said, what's
Speaker 8: wrong with you? You don't drink at ten in the morning.
Speaker 5: So when you say Gareth's wife, that's Rachel Price. That's
Speaker 5: Amy's friend.
Speaker 8: I don't know who she was. I don't know if
Speaker 8: she was his wife, girlfriend or what. I never hardly
Speaker 8: knew Gareth at all.
Speaker 5: When did this happen? This ten o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 8: This was a while before, and I sort of said
Speaker 8: to her, I wouldn't put up with drinking, you know.
Speaker 8: I had to go and I just let them do it.
Speaker 8: But I did tell them there that there were bottle
Speaker 8: caps and stuff everywhere, and twenty two bullet shells laying
Speaker 8: around everywhere. I said, clean the bloom and place up.
Speaker 3: This was.
Speaker 8: I didn't go in the shed too much. We're just
Speaker 8: laying around along outside on the bit. That's like bitchumen
Speaker 8: where the car park was. I said, clean the mess
Speaker 8: up a bit. So anyway, there was obviously concern there
Speaker 8: with the drinking and whatever was going on, But.
Speaker 5: Did you have concerns about David's drinking.
Speaker 8: Well, when someone gets a beer out at ten o'clock
Speaker 8: in the morning. I did, and I didn't realize giving
Speaker 8: them that house, I had actually made two mistakes. I'd
Speaker 8: given them letters to get guns. Secondly, I had given
Speaker 8: them a whole heap more cash to buy drugs and
Speaker 8: alcohol because they're not paying any rent. Amy was on
Speaker 8: a pension with two children, David was on a pension.
Speaker 8: Plus they were selling the firewood. So suddenly, if you
Speaker 8: got this surplus. I realized all this afterwards, in hindsight,
Speaker 8: looking back, doing the right thing ended up probably being
Speaker 8: the wrong thing.
Speaker 5: Did you ever see Amy drinking too much?
Speaker 3: Never saw Amy?
Speaker 5: Just David you were worried about? Yeah, yeah, did you
Speaker 5: see either of them doing drugs?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 8: But I had heard and before. Like one thing, David
Speaker 8: always fessed up. If I asked him, I said, are
Speaker 8: you taking using drugs? Just a bit here and there?
Speaker 8: You know, if I questioned him, I usually got the
Speaker 8: truth the answers out of him.
Speaker 5: And talking about drug use just David or Amy as well.
Speaker 3: Well, no one else was really my concern.
Speaker 5: Okay, no one told you anything about Amy like that.
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't know if she took drugs or not.
Speaker 5: And I think you didn't fully finish your answer. But
Speaker 5: you've never seen Amy drinking.
Speaker 8: No, I didn't have a lot to do with them, honestly.
Speaker 8: I only spoke to Amy one time. She picked me
Speaker 8: up from the airport. It's probably the longest chat I
Speaker 8: had with her. She'd give me a lift, and probably
Speaker 8: half a dozen or so times.
Speaker 3: Not that much.
Speaker 1: Really, much of Robert's story is the same from here,
Speaker 1: so again we'll just concentrate on additional or varying information.
Speaker 1: Robert mentions lifting the jacket or something covering Amy's head.
Speaker 8: I pulled it, just checked to see that she was deceased,
Speaker 8: took the cover off and looked, and just dropped it
Speaker 8: back down again. And I started shaking by now, so
Speaker 8: I've run outside, but it was still enough for where
Speaker 8: to get a phone call. So I've rung not knowing
Speaker 8: what the hell has gone on here. So then I
Speaker 8: jumped in the car because we had a fire there
Speaker 8: before an emergency. Could never find the place, so I
Speaker 8: said to them, I will meet you down by the highway.
Speaker 8: So I've gone five hundred meters down to the highway
Speaker 8: and when I get down the road, Gareth is standing there,
Speaker 8: and I said, what the hell swearing, what the affing
Speaker 8: hell has happened up there?
Speaker 3: She shot herself?
Speaker 8: That that I think My second question in was who
Speaker 8: moved the gun and put the jacket over a head?
Speaker 8: And he said I did, I did. And then I said, well,
Speaker 8: where the hell is David? And he said he's taking
Speaker 8: the kids to Nancys. So, in one way, although this
Speaker 8: tragic situation is there, I felt a relief that he
Speaker 8: hadn't shot her.
Speaker 5: Were you concerned that David had shot Amy at that stage.
Speaker 3: When I walked in there? Well?
Speaker 8: As they said, the police and that were saying earlier,
Speaker 8: if someone shot themselves, the gun is not over there,
Speaker 8: is it? But in saying so, that's why when that
Speaker 8: was my second question to him, instead of asking, I said,
Speaker 8: who moved the gun and who put the towel over?
Speaker 3: He said I did, I did.
Speaker 8: So by now he has touched everything stuff, which is
Speaker 8: as forensic said, it's not a good thing once it's
Speaker 8: to prove innocence all the other way. The more something
Speaker 8: is contaminated, the harder it is all round.
Speaker 1: Robert Simmons goes on to conclude he completely believes David
Speaker 1: and Gareth's story and can understand why detectives thought it
Speaker 1: was suicide.
Speaker 8: I think it was easy to see what actually happened
Speaker 8: in my view, and just if I had been an
Speaker 8: investigator and looking at it. Look, I'm no expert, but
Speaker 8: i have been around guns all my life, and I've
Speaker 8: seen what different weapons can do and spatter patterns if
Speaker 8: you're shooting stuff.
Speaker 1: That's what Kirkman thought. But of course, now, as everyone knows,
Speaker 1: being an avid shooter doesn't make you a ballistics or
Speaker 1: blood spatter expert. He's then asked to explain how he
Speaker 1: could enter the room and not notice Amy.
Speaker 3: I don't remember having to push the door.
Speaker 8: Maybe I did because my heart was racing even before
Speaker 8: i'd seen her, because I knew something was wrong, Maybe
Speaker 8: because from someone of my size, and even when Gareth
Speaker 8: first went into that room. Gareth is a fairly big fellow.
Speaker 8: Amy is forty odd kilos. Easy if they had to
Speaker 8: have pushed the door open to see to get they
Speaker 8: would have pushed her out of the way and moved
Speaker 8: her body to get in that room because that recess.
Speaker 8: If she was any bigger, she wouldn't have got behind there.
Speaker 8: She's only tiny. But mate, you know, I just saw
Speaker 8: the gun, so in that instant I could see the gun,
Speaker 8: but maybe the door had opened wider.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 9: Do you remember seeing any blood on the gun? No,
Speaker 9: what can you tell us about what you remember seeing
Speaker 9: in terms of Amy's body's position, Where were her hands?
Speaker 10: Where were her legs?
Speaker 8: Well, I didn't take a lot of notice because I
Speaker 8: just checked to see if she was alive. There's not
Speaker 8: a lot of room in those small places. There's just
Speaker 8: a bed and a built in robe. So if someone
Speaker 8: had opened the door, it might have swept the legs
Speaker 8: across whoever was in there first, because you wouldn't have
Speaker 8: got in there. If she sat behind that door, you
Speaker 8: wouldn't have got in there, like when Gareth. Whoever Gareth
Speaker 8: was the first one in there, I think, and he
Speaker 8: had to have swept pushed her to get in there,
Speaker 8: so she would have moved for sure.
Speaker 5: Would it upset you? And you can say yes, so
Speaker 5: we won't do it unless you agree to it. To
Speaker 5: see a photo of her body at the time, just
Speaker 5: so you can kind of discuss the legs, and we
Speaker 5: won't do it if you think it was going to bed.
Speaker 5: I don't want to retraumatize you.
Speaker 3: Or no, that's all right.
Speaker 5: Do you recognize that as the bedroom and Amy in there?
Speaker 5: And is it similar or different to what you saw
Speaker 5: when you saw Amy once? What's her position like in
Speaker 5: your memory as compared to that photograph.
Speaker 3: I thought she was more this way.
Speaker 5: When you say more this way, can you just explain
Speaker 5: to me what you mean by that or to miss Tyler?
Speaker 8: Well, like I said, I couldn't be one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 8: The photo speaks for itself, but I thought she was
Speaker 8: more with the legs facing out towards the bed. It
Speaker 8: looks like it has moved because when her foot was definitely.
Speaker 3: Sticking out to the end.
Speaker 8: Now if you I would say she has definitely been
Speaker 8: moved there. I thought she was more around this way
Speaker 8: towards the wall. And this is clearly showing her towards
Speaker 8: the wardrobe, because I can tell you the door was
Speaker 8: open like that and all I saw.
Speaker 3: Was a bit of footsticking out.
Speaker 8: Now that if you look at the photo, there's no
Speaker 8: way in the world her feet are behind the door. Now,
Speaker 8: it's no, It's just I would say one hundred percent
Speaker 8: that she has been moved.
Speaker 1: Just to clarify here, while we are privy to the photo,
Speaker 1: Robert Simmons is being shown. We do know from documents
Speaker 1: we've seen that when Amy was found, she had her
Speaker 1: back against the wall of the built in wardrobe, sitting
Speaker 1: lengthwise in the resetts, which is less than a meter long,
Speaker 1: behind the door which opens inwards. So what Robert seems
Speaker 1: to be saying is he thought Amy's back was more
Speaker 1: against the wall between the built in wardrobe and the door,
Speaker 1: so her right foot could be seen after he'd pushed
Speaker 1: to open the door. Robert Is then asked about the
Speaker 1: missing doorknob.
Speaker 3: No one used to fall off all the time. A
Speaker 3: couple of them.
Speaker 1: Did that, and the car key jacket placed on Amy's head.
Speaker 8: I didn't say a color or anything. I thought it
Speaker 8: was a jacket, but a towel A jacket, I don't know.
Speaker 8: You know, you're in a panic and I just lifted
Speaker 8: what was on ahead. But yeah, I thought it was
Speaker 8: a jacket, just in my mind. I thought it was
Speaker 8: a jacket, but it was probably a towel.
Speaker 1: They move on to David's drinking problem and what Robert
Speaker 1: thinks he's capable of under the influence.
Speaker 8: I guess everybody is capable of doing something when under
Speaker 8: the influence of alcohol. That they wouldn't usually do. But
Speaker 8: I wasn't that sort of concerned over things.
Speaker 1: Like that, Robert says, on the night Amy died, David
Speaker 1: and Gareth were full of alcohol.
Speaker 8: Well, I can't prove it, but they had been drinking.
Speaker 8: It was just something they did all the time, so
Speaker 8: I just assumed that that's what they had been doing.
Speaker 1: Then there's the phone call David made to Robert while
Speaker 1: he was still at the roadhouse before he dialed triple zero.
Speaker 1: Robert denies having received it, even though phone records show
Speaker 1: a call connecting. It was less than twenty seconds long,
Speaker 1: but enough time for David to tell him what happened.
Speaker 10: On your mobile phone.
Speaker 9: There's a record at five twenty pm of an incoming
Speaker 9: phone call from Serpentine Falls Roadhouse that lasted for thirteen seconds.
Speaker 9: We know that David and Gareth went to the roadhouse
Speaker 9: to call the emergency services.
Speaker 3: That was going to my landline.
Speaker 10: That was to your mobile phone.
Speaker 3: I don't think I never answer it.
Speaker 1: Then, Robert says, when he went down to the house
Speaker 1: where David and Amy lived, he checked out the perimeter.
Speaker 8: Out the back there was a knot in a tree
Speaker 8: and they had been shooting when they were waiting for
Speaker 8: or obviously they had had an argument, or so the
Speaker 8: story went, and Amy was the kids were in the car,
Speaker 8: and they were they'd been out shooting this knot in
Speaker 8: the tree, and those were the shots I had heard.
Speaker 3: There's a little knot in the white gum out the side.
Speaker 8: I had seen the fresh bullet holes in the white
Speaker 8: bark around that tree where they had been shooting. They
Speaker 8: were out while Amy was packing up or something. I
Speaker 8: don't know if it was all at the same time
Speaker 8: or what, but they've been shooting at this tree and
Speaker 8: shooting at birds and stuff. It wasn't longer after because
Speaker 8: when he explained to me exactly what had happened, I
Speaker 8: had a look, as I say, I had a look
Speaker 8: at the bolletholes.
Speaker 3: In the tree there.
Speaker 1: Just remember, the clothes David and Gareth provided to police
Speaker 1: didn't have any gun residue on them, which, as Larry
Speaker 1: Blanford points out, means they're not the ones they were
Speaker 1: wearing when Amy died. So why wasn't this considered at
Speaker 1: the inquest? What happened to the clothes they were wearing?
Speaker 1: From a casual observer, Amy was subjected to much more
Speaker 1: scrutiny during the proceedings than David, and much less sympathy.
Speaker 8: Even on that day. My son has never been the same.
Speaker 8: He's drug and alcohol problem spiraled out of control. He's homeless,
Speaker 8: he's half If you look at the pictures back then
Speaker 8: when he was with Amy, he was quite still reasonably
Speaker 8: healthy looking. If you saw him today, he's probably fifty
Speaker 8: sixty kilos and just he has got a nice addiction
Speaker 8: and still an alcohol problem.
Speaker 9: Has he talked to you about the impact Amy's death
Speaker 9: has had on him?
Speaker 3: Yes, he has.
Speaker 8: Last time I saw David wasn't that long ago. I
Speaker 8: tried to help him at various times, like for reasons
Speaker 8: some things for your own health. You have to stay away,
Speaker 8: even from people you love. I couldn't see him destroying
Speaker 8: himself after Amy went, he went down, down, down, and
Speaker 8: he's still down like he has been in and signed
Speaker 8: into the Armidale Mental Ward a few times there.
Speaker 3: What do you call it? The mental health unit? Up there?
Speaker 9: Is there anything else that you know could assist the
Speaker 9: coroner to make her determination in terms of Amy's death?
Speaker 8: Well, you know what, they didn't do it. There was
Speaker 8: a whole lot of mistakes made there. I still say
Speaker 8: that the first guy in there, the detective, knew what
Speaker 8: he was doing and knew what he had seen.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he's a trained police officer.
Speaker 8: He wouldn't make the call in such a short space
Speaker 8: of time if he wasn't really sure at the evidence again,
Speaker 8: looking at the actual evidence. A few days later, the
Speaker 8: major crime came back to me up the top. We've
Speaker 8: got to go back down the house. Can you come
Speaker 8: with me? I need you because I wasn't to re
Speaker 8: enter the house. I said, well, what do you need
Speaker 8: to look at? He said, We've lost the bullets that.
Speaker 3: Were in the gun. Anyway, we went in and we.
Speaker 8: Had to have a look for these bullets again because
Speaker 8: they had been misplaced.
Speaker 3: The two that I had taken out apparently were gone.
Speaker 1: You heard right. The live and spent cartridges Robert Simmons
Speaker 1: removed from the gun were gone, never to be found again.
Speaker 1: The coroner asked more questions about it, but only seems
Speaker 1: to consider the possibility of police being responsible for the
Speaker 1: missing ammunition.
Speaker 5: Do you remember who was the first person you told
Speaker 5: in terms of having opened the gun and taken the
Speaker 5: bullets out? Can you remember who you told about that?
Speaker 5: Would it have been the police officers who came and
Speaker 5: saw you.
Speaker 8: I think it would have been, Yes, I didn't tell Yes.
Speaker 8: I think it was the police.
Speaker 5: Right, So that conversation up at your house when they came,
Speaker 5: I gather they came to give you a receipt for
Speaker 5: things they'd seized. Is that right.
Speaker 8: I can't remember about a receipt, but they came up
Speaker 8: and David and that were there.
Speaker 5: Was that the first time you kind of had a
Speaker 5: proper conversation with police at all.
Speaker 8: I didn't even have a conversation with them that night.
Speaker 8: They just said, look, yes, we're quite happy, you know,
Speaker 8: to write it off as a suicide.
Speaker 9: Do you have any concerns about David having been the
Speaker 9: person to pull the trigger to end Amy's life.
Speaker 8: I'm one hundred percent certain that he didn't. If I
Speaker 8: thought he did it, I would be saying, like when
Speaker 8: I rang the emergency services, I didn't try and cover
Speaker 8: nothing up. I told them what I had seen. I
Speaker 8: thought my son had killed his girlfriend. If someone had
Speaker 8: done such a horrific crime, there's no way I would
Speaker 8: be covering it up.
Speaker 10: You wouldn't lie to protect your son, of.
Speaker 3: Course, not.
Speaker 2: Counsel assisting the family Peter Ward asked Robert Simmons about
Speaker 2: his son's drug habit.
Speaker 11: You were aware that he was using drugs back in
Speaker 11: twenty fourteen.
Speaker 8: Like I said earlier on, I wasn't aware they were
Speaker 8: that the alcohol and drugs were getting out of hand
Speaker 8: at the time, because he had worked for me and
Speaker 8: on Worsley sites where you're you know, your alcohol and
Speaker 8: drug tested all the time on mind sites. But I
Speaker 8: wasn't aware till I went there and later on when
Speaker 8: Gareth had pulled a beer out at ten o'clock in
Speaker 8: the morning and I had looked around and seen all
Speaker 8: the empty bollet shells and bottle caps lying around that,
Speaker 8: I you know, things were starting to get out of hand,
Speaker 8: as I said, giving him the free house and the
Speaker 8: free everything, and they had excess money.
Speaker 3: It was it was a mistake on my part.
Speaker 11: But you know that he was using drugs at the time,
Speaker 11: didn't you?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 11: Did you know what sort of drugs?
Speaker 8: I know he was using a bit of meth and
Speaker 8: smoking weed, And again I you know, I used to
Speaker 8: and I said, what are you you know? And he
Speaker 8: would he would fess up if I cornered him on something.
Speaker 11: I appreciate you didn't realize at the time, yes, how
Speaker 11: bad things were.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't.
Speaker 11: But you subsequently worked out how bad things were, didn't you.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 11: And one of the ways that you did work out
Speaker 11: how bad things were was when you cleaned out the
Speaker 11: house afterwards, you found a lot of letters that Amy
Speaker 11: had written to about Alcoholavid about alcohol.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, correct, those letters were actually posted notes. And
Speaker 2: unfortunately we can only go on what Robert says was
Speaker 2: in them because he chucked them away.
Speaker 8: Look, everything went, We cleaned the house up, and I
Speaker 8: was in the middle of wanting to get ready get
Speaker 8: ready to sell anyway, So this house I had lent
Speaker 8: them was sort of a part time thing.
Speaker 11: I understand that. And you had quite a lot of
Speaker 11: work to do to clean it up, a lot of work,
Speaker 11: and in that process you found these letters and you
Speaker 11: read them, and then you realized from.
Speaker 3: That how bad they were heartbreaking.
Speaker 11: Yes, how many letters were there?
Speaker 3: There were little.
Speaker 8: Notes around half a dozen a dozen I don't know exactly,
Speaker 8: but it was enough to read and you know, see
Speaker 8: just how sad the situation was, I suppose.
Speaker 11: And that made you realize that things were a lot
Speaker 11: worse than you knew at the time.
Speaker 2: With his drinking and that yes, this is what the
Speaker 2: coroner said in her findings about Robert Simmons evidence.
Speaker 5: SJA had notified David's father, Robert Simmons, that they had
Speaker 5: received a call to send an ambulance to his property
Speaker 5: from someone identified as David Simmons. Robert Simmons told the
Speaker 5: operator he didn't know oh of any incident, but he
Speaker 5: would go down to the house below and check. He
Speaker 5: went down to the house and then called SJA back.
Speaker 5: He stated that he found Amy dead and said someone
Speaker 5: shot her. I think it must have been my son.
Speaker 5: He's not here, then continued, my son made the mistake,
Speaker 5: but she's been shot in the head and she's dead.
Speaker 5: It is clear from this evidence of the inquest that
Speaker 5: Robert Simmons assumed David had shot Amy because of the
Speaker 5: position of the shotgun on the floor and the towel
Speaker 5: covering her head. Mister Simmons then went down to the
Speaker 5: front gate in order to direct emergency services in and
Speaker 5: found Gareth, who explained that Amy had shot herself and
Speaker 5: he had moved the gun and put the towel on
Speaker 5: Amy's head. Mister Simmons gave evidence he was relieved and
Speaker 5: from that time no longer believed David was responsible. At
Speaker 5: the inquest, mister Simmons commented on the many mistakes during
Speaker 5: the police investigation, including releasing the scene to him to
Speaker 5: be cleaned, but also emphasized his belief that the initial
Speaker 5: detectives made the right call, as he one hundred percent
Speaker 5: believes Amy committed suicide. I considered Robert Simmons to be
Speaker 5: an honest, forthright witness. He certainly had not tried to
Speaker 5: hide his concerns about what David might have done when
Speaker 5: he spoke to the emergency services operator after going into
Speaker 5: the house at their request. Mister Simmons also gave evidence
Speaker 5: that he said to David at a later time, I'm
Speaker 5: going to ask you once, and then asked David to
Speaker 5: talk him through exactly what happened when Amy died and
Speaker 5: to tell him if he had any involvement in her death.
Speaker 5: Mister Simmons gave evidence that David has never been the
Speaker 5: same since that day. At the time of the inquest,
Speaker 5: mister Simonds gave evidence that David's drug and alcohol problems
Speaker 5: have spiraled out of control and is now homeless and
Speaker 5: his mental and physical health is compromised. Mister Simonds said
Speaker 5: he had tried to help him at various times, but ultimately,
Speaker 5: for his own health and to protect other family members,
Speaker 5: he has to stay away from David.
Speaker 1: On the fifteenth of September twenty fourteen, Gareth Price posted
Speaker 1: or had someone else post this message on Facebook.
Speaker 6: I know what the game is.
Speaker 1: You're two Facebook. He says the C word.
Speaker 6: Time will tell.
Speaker 1: In reply, his ex wife Rachel says that it will.
Speaker 1: David Simmons replies.
Speaker 6: I'll be home twentieth bro.
Speaker 1: You okay. Joshua Brydon also replies to Gareth, you okay, mate,
Speaker 1: as does a bloke by the name of Clint Simons,
Speaker 1: who says, hope.
Speaker 6: You're okay, mate.
Speaker 1: Clint Simons. You may remember Robert talking about a Clinton
Speaker 1: Simons who told him about Amy's rage. Could that be
Speaker 1: the same guy?
Speaker 2: Then there's this Facebook message to Rachel mckerny on the
Speaker 2: twenty sixth of June twenty eighteen, on the four year
Speaker 2: anniversary of Amy's death. Well, you're a give up dog.
Speaker 2: I no longer have a sister. It's gloves off. When
Speaker 2: I see your next maggot, I'll be coming for you.
Speaker 5: So take your big hole and fuck off.
Speaker 2: Somewhere for good you. The author of that message is
Speaker 2: Rachel's sister Renee, who says she's with David Simmons. The
Speaker 2: picture is a posed to saying once a snitch, always
Speaker 2: a traitor at school, on the job in the streets.
Speaker 2: The insinuation is that Rachel was not being loyal to
Speaker 2: her mates, that maybe she wasn't being loyal to David Simmons.
Speaker 2: Rachel was supposed to appear at the inquest, but didn't. However,
Speaker 2: she did make this statement to police.
Speaker 12: I am twenty two years old and reside at an
Speaker 12: address known to police with my husband, Gareth Price. We
Speaker 12: have been married for nearly three years. We have a
Speaker 12: two year old daughter. I've known David Simmons for over
Speaker 12: seven years, mostly through my husband as they are good friends,
Speaker 12: but my brother also knew him when we were children.
Speaker 12: I met an Am Wensley approximately five years ago when
Speaker 12: she started the relationship with David Simmons. I would call
Speaker 12: Amy a good friend of mine and we see each
Speaker 12: other several times a week. Both Gareth and I socialized
Speaker 12: nearly every weekend with Amy and David, and our kids
Speaker 12: are very close during the week. Starting twenty third of
Speaker 12: June twenty fourteen. I saw Amy nearly every day except Monday.
Speaker 12: I think on Wednesday, twenty fifth of June twenty fourteen,
Speaker 12: Amy and I went to the movies together the boys,
Speaker 12: Gareth and David stayed home to look after the kids.
Speaker 12: Gareth and I stayed at Amy and David's house on
Speaker 12: Wednesday night. On Thursday twenty sixth of June, Amy and
Speaker 12: I went shopping in Armadale with the girls, Tay and
Speaker 12: my daughter. We were trying to get a present for
Speaker 12: Tay's birthday. Gareth went to work and I think David
Speaker 12: went off with someone chopping wood. We got back to
Speaker 12: Amy's house in Serpentine at approximately twelve thirty pm. We
Speaker 12: gave the girls a bubble game to play with and
Speaker 12: they went out the back to play. Amy and I
Speaker 12: stayed in sud and just watched a bit of television.
Speaker 12: While we were chatting. Amy seemed fine and I didn't
Speaker 12: notice anything was wrong. She did not show any signs
Speaker 12: of any problems. At approximately three fifty p m. I
Speaker 12: left Amy's house with my daughter and went home. I
Speaker 12: knew Gareth had been home at some stage during the day,
Speaker 12: as some milk had been taken out of the freezer
Speaker 12: and some lights had been left on. I just assumed
Speaker 12: that he'd gone off pigging with the boys, as that's
Speaker 12: what he usually does. Sometime later that night or early
Speaker 12: in the morning, Gareth came home and woke me up.
Speaker 12: He told me Amy was dead. I asked him if
Speaker 12: he was serious, and he said yes, she blew her
Speaker 12: head off. Gareth told me that David was at our
Speaker 12: house and he was going to stay the night. I
Speaker 12: said no worries. I left Gareth and David and walked
Speaker 12: outside to try and deal with what had happened. I
Speaker 12: walked back inside and sat next to Gareth, but I
Speaker 12: was too upset and had to get up and walk
Speaker 12: into the bedroom. I didn't want to get upset in
Speaker 12: front of David, as I thought it would make him
Speaker 12: feel worse. In the morning, Gareth got up around five
Speaker 12: thirty am and drove down to the bottom of the
Speaker 12: hill to tell his mate that he wasn't going to work.
Speaker 12: Gareth came back up to the house and I asked
Speaker 12: him what had happened. He just replied, like I said,
Speaker 12: she shot herself. Gareth and David left the house for
Speaker 12: the rest of the day and went out bush. I
Speaker 12: went to my girlfriend's house for a few hours. I
Speaker 12: then went to Trent's house, another friend, where I thought
Speaker 12: Gareth and David might end up. Gareth and David turned
Speaker 12: up at Trent's house and then we all went back
Speaker 12: to our house at around five pm. We ended up
Speaker 12: having a few people at our house as friends wanted
Speaker 12: to come and support David. We didn't want to leave
Speaker 12: David on his own and just wanted to support him.
Speaker 12: David didn't really say a lot. He would talk in
Speaker 12: general conversation and then you could see him get teary.
Speaker 12: At one stage, he got up and kicked a bucket
Speaker 12: and shouted in frustration, but Gareth just grabbed him and
Speaker 12: hugged him. David and Amy appeared really happy lately. It
Speaker 12: was the best I had seen them ever get on.
Speaker 12: Amy never told me that there was a problem with
Speaker 12: the relationship, and I've never seen Amy and David have
Speaker 12: a physical argument or even a bad verbal argument. David
Speaker 12: didn't talk about what happened, and no one pushed him,
Speaker 12: as they just wanted him to try and relax. At
Speaker 12: around ten ten pm, the police turned up at our
Speaker 12: house and I attended Mundajong Police station to give this statement.
Speaker 12: This statement is true to the best of my knowledge
Speaker 12: and belief. I have made this statement knowing that if
Speaker 12: it is tended in evidence, I will be guilty of
Speaker 12: a crime if I have wilfully included in the statement
Speaker 12: anything that I know to be false or that I
Speaker 12: do not.
Speaker 5: Believe is true.
Speaker 2: It's stated the twenty seventh of June twenty fourteen, a
Speaker 2: day after Amy's death. This is what the coroner said
Speaker 2: in relation to her evidence and that of Amy's family.
Speaker 5: Weighing against the evidence of Amy's family is the evidence
Speaker 5: that Amy has been diagnosed with anxiety and depression, which
Speaker 5: has a known association with an increased risk of suicide,
Speaker 5: and was clearly in a time tumultuous relationship that had
Speaker 5: made her deeply unhappy at times. She had separated from
Speaker 5: David a number of times, but they had always got
Speaker 5: back together, which may well have created some sense of
Speaker 5: futility in her mind as to her prospects of escaping
Speaker 5: the relationship. Some of her own messages to friends and
Speaker 5: even to David indicate that she felt caught in a
Speaker 5: vicious cycle where she loved him and wanted to keep
Speaker 5: her family unit together, but it felt like David, would
Speaker 5: never change. I accept that Amy loved her daughters unconditionally,
Speaker 5: but many people who love their family sadly do commit
Speaker 5: suicide in moments of despair without thinking through the tragic consequences.
Speaker 5: There is also evidence from Rachel Price that Amy spontaneously
Speaker 5: raised the topic of suicide that day, although they did
Speaker 5: not discuss it in detail, and various accounts that she
Speaker 5: was behaving out of character and hysterical that night. Nevertheless,
Speaker 5: I give some weight to the evidence of Amy's family
Speaker 5: and friends that they do not believe it was in
Speaker 5: her character to ever take her own life.
Speaker 2: I fucking hate him.
Speaker 5: He'd better not have hit you.
Speaker 1: Did he fucking hit you?
Speaker 2: Just a reminder. The recollection by Nancy of her conversation
Speaker 2: with Amy is the last known conversation Amy had with anyone,
Speaker 2: and happened just minutes before her death.
Speaker 10: He grabbed me by the throat and he threw me
Speaker 10: to the ground.
Speaker 11: What pack your shit.
Speaker 8: Pack some of the girl's stuff and come here.
Speaker 9: I don't care if you stay here a week, a month,
Speaker 9: a year, I don't care.
Speaker 4: Get here now.
Speaker 5: In fact, I'll come up and I'll get you.
Speaker 4: No mom, hey, mom, oh, I will I'll see you soon.
Speaker 4: I will can't, I will can't.
Speaker 2: Rachel doesn't mention Amy raising suicide with her in her statement.
Speaker 2: That evidence came from Gareth, who said that's what Rachel
Speaker 2: told him. Earlier this year, we tracked Rachel down and
Speaker 2: specifically asked her about Amy's demeanor in the lead up
Speaker 2: to her dadh Hi Rachel. She was visibly upset when
Speaker 2: we asked her about Amy, but we would be negligent
Speaker 2: in our responsibility if we didn't try to talk to her.
Speaker 1: It's nice to meet you. I'm sorry to come to
Speaker 1: your home, but we're doing a story about Amy, trying
Speaker 1: to find out the truth about Amy, and we were
Speaker 1: just wondering if you would mind talking to us about
Speaker 1: not really know your old friend.
Speaker 3: Sorry, guys.
Speaker 1: Had joint us to kids.
Speaker 3: Rachel.
Speaker 1: We just want to ask you about Amy and about
Speaker 1: that last day because what you know and what you
Speaker 1: could tell us might be really helpful. We're really doing this.
Speaker 1: That's really nice of you to talk to us. Thank
Speaker 1: you a little bit. I know it's difficult, but we're
Speaker 1: really trying to do this for Am his family.
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't don't.
Speaker 11: I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1: Well, just tell me a bit about your friendship with her.
Speaker 4: We were close, We had kids that were around the
Speaker 4: same aid so used to hang out. The boys used
Speaker 4: to go do their their thing, and I mean, Amy,
Speaker 4: we would.
Speaker 5: Just do us and the kids.
Speaker 1: And you were with her, weren't you on that last day?
Speaker 4: That afternoon?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 7: And the day yes?
Speaker 3: What was she like?
Speaker 2: She was fine?
Speaker 4: We made we made Mars bar slice for the kids,
Speaker 4: We got vegetables ready for the for dinner, and then
Speaker 4: the boys were late, so I went home and then
Speaker 4: that was it.
Speaker 1: And do you think that the suggestion she was suicidal
Speaker 1: is correct? Do you think she was depressed that day?
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you didn't. You didn't notice anything
Speaker 1: strange or was it looking.
Speaker 7: For ends and strange?
Speaker 6: Eno?
Speaker 3: It was just an every day, just another day.
Speaker 1: It was just completely usual as far as you were concerned.
Speaker 1: Did she bring up anything about harming herself? For was
Speaker 1: there any sort of idea or suggestion?
Speaker 5: I don't want to answer the question.
Speaker 1: Do you think people know what happened? Just before we go?
Speaker 1: I want to ask you this. Do you think David
Speaker 1: Simmons was involved? Do you think Gareth and Joshua know
Speaker 1: more than what they're saying, Rachel, just tell me yes
Speaker 1: or no. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 2: Rachel seems to know more than she's willing to say,
Speaker 2: but he's clearly fragile, and given the harassment she's received
Speaker 2: from members of her own family, and that's just what
Speaker 2: we know of her reluctance is unsurprising. Hopefully she'll receive
Speaker 2: the support from people who do care about her well
Speaker 2: being and that of her children, and perhaps feel more
Speaker 2: comfortable discussing her feelings on what happened for Amy. Next week,
Speaker 2: we speak to someone who knows the truth about Amy,
Speaker 2: her partner, David Simmons.
Speaker 1: Please ideas, what does it matter? What does it matter?
Speaker 3: What do you mean?
Speaker 1: What does it matter? So you see.
Speaker 2: So this.
Speaker 10: We both know the nasty.
Speaker 6: JI.
Speaker 1: If you knew Amy and have information, any information about
Speaker 1: her death, we'd love to hear from you. Just email
Speaker 1: us at The Truth about Amy at seven dot com
Speaker 1: dot au. That's s E V E N The Truth
Speaker 1: about Amy at seven dot com dot au, or visit
Speaker 1: our website sevenews dot com dot au forward slash the
Speaker 1: Truth about Amy. You can also send us an anonymous
Speaker 1: tip at www dot the Truth about Amy dot com.
Speaker 1: If you're on Facebook or Instagram. You can follow us
Speaker 1: to see photos and updates relevant to the case, but
Speaker 1: for legal reasons, unfortunately you won't be able to make
Speaker 1: any comments. And remember, if if you like what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
Speaker 1: because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter
Speaker 1: and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett,
Speaker 1: Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blanford,
Speaker 1: and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This
Speaker 1: is a Seven News production.