WEBVTT - 07: Torn 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:06.480 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.840 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:19.040 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:29.440 lifeline dot org dot AU. A twenty four year old 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:35.960 devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:45.280 bags pack car running her daughters strapped into the backseat. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.120 Mom told me that she needed to go back inside 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:49.920 to grab something. 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:50.720 Panic. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.320 I Amy is dead, Sir aim his dead? 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.680 Eight confusion about five minutes say sit n to a suicide? 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:57.920 One hundred percent? 0:00:58.280 --> 0:00:59.320 This is Emercy. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.400 What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy? 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.840 The Truth about Amy? 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:16.919 Episode seven? 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:19.800 I'm Liam Bartlett. 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.080 And I'm Alison Sandy. 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.399 Sorry Gareth mate for what has happened in the past 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.840 and now recently. It means I have no one around 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:32.600 me because I don't want to be a burden on 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.800 you or the others. No more so if you don't 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.640 hear from me anymore, is because you don't need the 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:44.640 drama that follows me. So sincerely, David R. Simmons. It 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.640 breaks my heart, but trying to help someone has caused 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.600 this issue. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.000 This is a message exchange on Facebook between David Simmons 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.160 and Joshua Brydon after Amy died. The date is fifteenth 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.120 of November twenty twenty three. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.120 David, Robert Simmons, you just made the first step right there. 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.480 We are always here for you, but you are the 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.520 only person that can take control of your life and 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.320 move forward. It's not easy and you have a long 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.720 road ahead of here, but you have our support in 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:14.480 a near to listen. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:22.520 They've remained close over the past decade. Speaking of Brighton, 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.760 we've recently learned he's currently been reminded after being charged 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.600 for breaching a family violence restraining order. You'll hear more 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:35.799 about that in a future episode. But there's two people 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.040 who were there on the day who aren't a part 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:43.280 of their tight knit group, Gareth's ex wife Rachel Mckerne 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:48.880 and David's father, Robert Simmons. This episode concentrates on the 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.160 evidence they have provided over the years, some of which 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.720 is really telling and hasn't been given the attention it deserves. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.320 We'll start with Robert. This is a statement he made 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.040 to Wa police the day after Amy died. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.160 I am fifty four years old and currently reside at 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.320 twenty seven to eighty three Southwestern Highway, Serpentine. I am 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.359 a self employed tree clearer. I have my own business. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.840 My business is run from my home address. On Thursday, 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.200 twenty sixth of June twenty fourteen, at about five thirty pm, 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.640 I was at my home address by myself. The home 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.359 phone rang. I answered the phone and it was Saint 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.480 John's Ambulance. The person asked if David Simmons was there. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.760 I said, he lives on the property. I said, that's 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.680 my son. There are two houses on the property, or 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.920 something like that. There seemed to be some confusion from 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.200 the Saint John's Ambulance person as to what was going on. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:48.840 I said, I will go and check and call back. 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.320 I got in my nest and four wheel drive and 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.040 drove down my driveway to the house my son, David 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.360 Simmons stays in. There are two houses on the property. 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.839 I live in the one at the top, David lives 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.640 in the one below. It is only six hundred meters 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.040 along the driveway to the other house. David lives at 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.000 the address with his partner Amy. I can't think of 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.360 her surname. They have one child together and she is 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.280 turning for this weekend. They have lived in the house 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.640 together about three months. When I got to the house, 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.360 I parked next to David's white Subaru brumby Yute. I 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.800 noticed Amy's white Commodore wasn't there. I got out of 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.360 my car, and as I walked through the gate toward 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.520 the front door, I called out David. There was no answer. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.520 I walked to the entry door, which leads to the kitchen. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.400 I noticed the kitchen was messy. I also noticed straightway 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.440 the smell of gunpowder. I paused at the kitchen and 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.880 didn't see anyone. I noticed the bedroom one door was 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.760 open about six to eight inches. I walked to that 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.760 door and pushed it open and entered the room. I 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.360 saw two guns on the floor. They were next to 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.120 the bed as you walk in. One of the guns 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.159 was a side by side double barrel stainless decks all 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.760 four ten shotgun. I knew the gunpowder smell was from 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.400 the four ten. The other gun on the floor was 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.320 a twenty two caliber rifle. I know it's Amy's gun 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.680 because it's pink. I have seen it once before when 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.839 they first got it. I did not touch the twenty two. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.000 I bent down and picked up the four ten. I 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.520 cracked it open, which means I pushed the lever and 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.760 broke it open to check for ammunition. I pulled out 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.680 one cartridge which was spent. It was red in color 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.760 with a brass top. I stood it on the bedside table. 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.400 I didn't check if it was a solid round or anything. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.120 I pulled out the other cartridge and it was full, 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.719 as in it had not been fired. It was the 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.080 same color. I also stood that one on the bedside table. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.080 I closed the gun and put it back on the floor. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:48.760 I think when I saw the rifles on the floor, 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.919 the barrels were both pointing toward the door where I entered. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.600 I'm pretty sure I put the gun down the same 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.159 way I found it. I didn't touch the trigger on 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.080 either of the rifles on the floor. As I put 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.880 the shotgun down, something caught my attention and I closed 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.880 the bedroom door. I looked behind the door and saw 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.919 blood spatter on the wall behind the door. I saw 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.120 some legs and it was a small person wearing black tights. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.240 There was a gray or car key jacket over the 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.600 person's head and upper body. I pulled the jacket off 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.040 and saw that the person was Amy. Amy looked like 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.080 she had been shot. I didn't look at her for long. 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.520 I put the jacket back down on her and left 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.919 the room. My heart began racing. I knew then that 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.159 I shouldn't have touched the gun. I went outside the house. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.919 I was fumbling with my mobile phone. I know the 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.800 phone reception is not good in certain areas, so I 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.039 walked to the front area of the house, where I 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.799 knew I could get mobile reception. I caught triple zero 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.039 and spoke to the police. I told them what I 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.839 had found. I didn't go back into the house after that. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.880 I went and got back in my car and drove 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.839 down to the front gate to wait for the police. 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.440 When I got to the front gate, I saw my son, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.520 David's friend Gareth. Gareth was standing outside my front gate 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.640 near the highway on the verge. He was looking shell shocked. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.039 I pulled up in the car and I said, what 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.240 the hell's happening up there. Gareth looked at me, stunned 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:16.000 and said, she shot herself. She shot herself. I said, 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.280 who covered up? Gareth said I did. At that moment, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.120 the police pulled up. The police asked move out of 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.440 the way, as I was blocking the entrance. I asked, Gareth, 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.320 where's David. Gareth said, he's dropping the girls off at Nancy's. 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.720 Nancy is Amy's mum. Gareth was wearing shorts like board 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.400 shorts and a jumper. I can't recall what color his 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.520 clothing was, but it wasn't bright. I would have remembered that. 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.000 I think Gareth had shoes on runners with socks. Gareth 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.680 is about mid twenty to thirty years old, about five 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.000 foot ten tall and about medium to well built build, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:55.000 white skin. Gareth looked scruff and has a day's look 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.600 on him. It was just on dusk by this time, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.640 so it was getting dark. Gareth did not have his 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.760 car with him. I was wearing blue jeans and a 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.520 white T shirt under a black jumper. I had my 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:11.360 black casual shoes on their Mountain Design brand. They are 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.640 sized ten. The police drove up the driveway to the house. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.360 Two ambulances had also arrived, and they all drove up 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.000 to David's house. I followed behind in my car. When 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.920 we got to the house, the police asked me if 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.440 I could get rid of the dog. David's dog was 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.920 under the house. It was barking. It's a big dog. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.000 They use it for pig hunting. I couldn't get the 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.160 dog because it wouldn't come out from under the house. 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.760 The dog stopped barking, and the police told me to 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.360 go back up to my house and wait there, which 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.440 I did. I went home and made coffee. I called 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.600 my brother Neville. I called Bridget, who is my wife, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.440 but we're now separated. I also called David's mother, Evelyn, 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.480 who is my first ex wife. I called them on 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.079 my mobile phone. I think about eleven pm. Police came 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.160 up to the house and I spoke with them. They 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.720 gave me a receipt for firearms they were taking away. 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.560 The police told me they thought Amy had taken her 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.480 own life. It was not long after police had been 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.480 at my door David and Gareth came to my place. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.360 I stood at the front door for a couple of minutes. 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.120 They didn't come into my place. Both David and Gareth 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.920 were looking traumatized. David was pretty teary. David was going 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.680 to go and stay at Gareth's house. I told Gareth 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:24.640 not to work the next day and to stay with 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.800 David and look after him. I told them both not 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.199 to go drinking. My son was wearing board shorts as 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.280 well and boots. I think I can't recall what top 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.439 he had on. Again, I don't think it was bright colors. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.800 David and Gareth left my place in the Subaru brumby 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.120 about eleven thirty pm or midnight. I can't remember if 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.640 the police came to my place first or if it 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.959 was David and Gareth. David came back to my place 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.920 about eight am this morning. He was still with Gareth. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.559 I spoke with David about what happened. David only said 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:01.680 it isn't right. How could you do that something similar? Again, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.280 I didn't think it was right to ask more questions 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.600 about what had happened. David only stayed a short time. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.400 I told David Nancy had rung. Nancy wanted some clothes 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.000 and things for the kids. I told David to leave 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.560 the commodore down on the highway and she can come 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:17.280 and pick it up. 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:19.920 The commodore had all the things for the kids in it. 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.280 Robert is referring to Amy's car, which she had already 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:24.800 packed with the kid's belongings. 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.360 I told David not to go into the bedroom where 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.760 Amy had been. I didn't go with David down to 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.959 the house David told me the commodore was already packed up, 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:34.840 and then he didn't need to go in the house. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.160 The police had given me a phone number for a 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:37.960 cleaning lady. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.400 I rang her in the morning and left a message. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.920 The cleaner rang back about eight thirty am. I arranged 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.040 for her to come and clean the house. She got 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.200 there about ten am. The police came later and I 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.320 spoke with him. I really don't know much about David 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.800 and Amy's relationship. I never really spoken much to Amy, 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.400 but she seemed nice enough when I have spoken to her. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.680 Amy actually looked after my horses. When she was living 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.000 with David in the house. Amy seemed like a good 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:06.160 The kids were always. 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:06.800 Washed and dressed. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.960 David and Gareth had been doing a bit of drinking 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.080 and pig shooting recently. I gave David some advice and 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.000 recently told him to pull his head in a bit 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.120 regarding the drinking. I had heard over the years that 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.920 Amy was a bit wild. I heard about an incident 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.760 from one of David's mates that Amy stabbed David in 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.280 the neck with a car key, but I never saw this. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.640 I have never seen or heard Amy and David fighting 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.360 or anything. But I am about six hundred meters away. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.480 David was quite into his guns. David liked to go 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.080 pig hunting. Most of the time. They don't even take 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.000 the guns. They go out with a knife and a 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:41.680 few dogs. 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.320 Four days later, on the of June twenty fourteen, Robert 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.080 Simmons makes the following additions to his statement. 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.280 Sometime in the afternoon on Thursday twenty six June twenty fourteen, 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.320 I was at my home address when I heard the 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.720 sound of two gunshots. The shots sounded like they came 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.480 from a twenty two. I can't recall the exact time 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.959 I heard these shots, but it would have been about 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.679 half an hour before I received a telephone call from 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.360 the ambulance. I didn't think anything about the shots, as 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.000 my son David and his partner Amy and their friends 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.560 put up targets and shoot them often. It was only 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.520 when I got a phone call from the ambulance that 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:19.880 I thought David had been shot. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.800 And again, this is what Robert Simmons told police in 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.120 a statement on fourteenth of January twenty nineteen. We've only 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:29.280 included changes. 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.360 David had been working for me doing land clearing and 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.640 wood shopping, but there wasn't much work around at the time. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.080 I didn't know Amy very well. I didn't socialize with 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.560 them at all. I never went in their house, just 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.600 inside the shed. David and Amy didn't have an ideal relationship. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:46.840 It was a bit up and down. 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.960 They had split up previously about a year before, but 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.880 not for very long. I noticed David had a mark 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.960 on his neck one day and I asked what it was. 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.319 David told me that Amy had stabbed him with some keys. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.760 Hang on a minute five years ago. He said that 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.360 he'd only heard this from one of David's mates, and 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.520 he never said he'd seen a wound moving on. 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:09.199 A couple of the guys that work for me, Tommy, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.679 they had called into David and Amy's house in Pinjarra 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.120 and Saura go off. David asked me if I could 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.920 give Amy a letter to get a gun for Amy. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.840 I was a little concerned about giving the letter to 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.920 Amy for her to get a gun, as she might 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.600 shoot David due to her temper, and that she could 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.720 go off quite easily. I told David this, but I 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.800 gave him the letter anyway, and she got a pink 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.000 twenty two. David was a bit of a drinker, more 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.120 like he had a bit of a drinking problem. He 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.760 had a friend back then, Gareth Price, who I didn't like, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.920 as David and Gareth would drink a fair bit. I 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.680 knew David had used drugs back then, but didn't know 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.920 it was meth. I learned it was meth he was 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:47.880 using later on. 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.840 It's interesting that while Robert Simmons was harsher on Amy 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.600 this time, even as he admits he didn't know her, 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.480 he also discusses his son's issues. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.360 On the twenty sixth June twenty fourteen, I was in 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.760 my office. I'm at home most of the time, nearly 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.439 every day. There would be no reason that David would 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.199 think I wasn't home. I was sitting in my office 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.280 when I heard three shots. It was sometime in the afternoon. 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.319 It's worth noting here Robert Simmons says it's three shots now, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:15.960 not two. 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:18.560 I didn't think anything of it, as David and his 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.400 friends were always shooting down at the house. I used 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.040 to tell them to stop shooting, leave the parrots alone. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.040 Use the twenty two as it doesn't make as much noise. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.120 I was sitting in my office when the landline rang 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.600 and it was the SJA Saint John's Ambulance saying someone 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.920 had rung for an ambulance. My immediate thought was David 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.440 was running around in the bush trying to ring an ambulance. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.720 I went into the house and as I stood near 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.520 the kitchen area, I could see into the main bedroom. 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.080 As I looked, I saw a gun on the floor. 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:48.840 Straight away, I knew it. 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:50.080 Was the four ten on the floor. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.680 The door of the bedroom was open enough for me 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:54.960 to walk straight in. I didn't have to shove the 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.280 door to get in. I've been around guns all my life, 0:14:58.320 --> 0:14:59.880 and the first thing you do is pick them up 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.600 make sure they are clear. I picked up the four 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.880 ten to see if it had been fired. I knew 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.440 it had been fired. As I turned from putting the 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.520 cartridges on the table, I saw Amy's foot from behind 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.040 the bedroom door. It was just the foot that I 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.640 saw a black boot. I didn't notice the handle on 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.480 the bedroom door was missing. I do know the handles 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.960 used to always come off on the doors. I didn't 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.760 put the handle back on the door. I rang Triple 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.160 zero and made a call to the police. When I 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.560 spoke to police, I said, I think my son is 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.080 shot her. My immediate thought that David shot Amy was 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.160 because the gun was lying on the floor and a 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.560 jacket was over Amy's head. I told the police I 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.400 would meet them at the gate, and when I got 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.920 to the gate, I saw David's friend Gareth. He told 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:45.760 me what happened, which was a bit of a relief 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.040 as I knew then David hadn't shot Amy. The police 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.600 came up to the house around eleven PM and told 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.920 me it was suicide. David and Gareth arrived at my 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.760 house shortly after. I tried to get David to stay, 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.960 but he didn't want to stay. When arrived the next day, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.680 I told him to take Amy's car, the white Commodore, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.400 down to the gate for Nancy to pick up. I 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.360 didn't know if David went into the house or not. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.400 Major crime detectives came to see me a couple of 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.239 days later, asking about the bullets, as the bullets were missing. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.280 That's when I went down to the house to help 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.360 them look for the bullets. I did eventually talk to 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.160 David about what happened. I told him i'd only ask 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.680 him once. I asked David if he had anything to 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.160 do with Amy being shot. David said no, I then 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.000 told David to tell me word for word what happened. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.760 David told me him and Gareth were going somewhere. David 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.040 said Amy smashed up the fish tanks that had. 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:38.600 Lizards in it. 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.280 Amy packed the car up as she was going to 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.880 her mum's and David and Gareth were going out. Amy 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.120 went into the bedroom to pack up, and David put 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.920 the kids in the car. David went back into check 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.200 on Amy to ask if she was ready. The door 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.840 of the bedroom was shut. He knocked on the door 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.400 and asked if she was ready. Amy yelled out to 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.720 give her a bit more time, went back out to 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.640 the car, and that's when he heard a muffled shot 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.800 and ran inside and seen what had happened, ran back 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.919 outside and collapsed. That's when I think Gareth must have 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:13.800 gone inside. I never asked him again what happened. I 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.400 looked after him for a few days after Amy's death, 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.960 giving him some good meals, but David drifted away after 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:21.840 a while and then moved out. 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:30.639 David is Robert Simmons' only son. Robert says he offered 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.720 David the smaller house on the property, which was halfway 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:38.880 between his house and the Southwestern Highway after David lost 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:43.880 his job. The house is only ten meters long and 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.320 six meters wide, not much bigger than a caravan really, 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.240 but David and Amy didn't have to pay rent, water 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.720 or electricity. This is Robert Simmons at the inquest held 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:58.560 in February twenty twenty one. 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.000 That house was empty, so I thought I would help 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.920 them out financially. I said, look, just have it, get 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.560 yourselves together. It was hard to kids, and. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:12.679 All that made harder by David not wanting Amy to work. However, 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.280 as mentioned earlier, Amy wanted to break free of her 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:22.480 captivity and restore her independence. Her computer files showed she 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:30.359 had updated her resume and was applying for jobs. Counsel 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.560 assisting Sarah Tyler asks Robert about the place Amy died 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.760 in twenty fourteen and how the phone reception was there. 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:42.480 Not good. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.160 I had to run down to the bottom house when 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.640 I made the call to triple zero, because I knew 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.040 exactly where you could stand and get reception. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.560 Did you have a landline at your house? Yes, I did, 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.240 but there wasn't a landline at David and Amy's. 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.600 That's correct. I'd put that little transportable home there. It's 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.199 a park home. You join it together, and it was 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.240 very small. I lived in it with two kids while 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.480 we built the house at the top. I was sitting 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.399 in my office and it must have been a warmer 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:10.920 day that day or something, even though it was winter. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.600 I had my window open and I was sitting there 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.720 and I heard a couple of gun shots or two 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.639 or three. It was a twenty two. I've been around 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:19.600 guns all my life. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.400 I could sort of tell, you know, you could tell 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:22.080 the difference. 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.240 I knew it was a shotgun or a three to eight, 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.720 or I knew what caliber of guns they had down 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:28.840 at the house. So I heard a couple of shots 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:30.159 and I thought nothing of it. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.360 Deputy Corridor Sarah Linton. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.520 And you said you thought they were twenty two shots? 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:35.440 Is that right? 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.119 They were twenty two? Yes, I guarantee it. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.760 They weren't the big gun and they weren't the shotgun, 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:42.560 so I knew they had three guns. 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.960 So do you know what time that would have been? 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:46.800 I was just I don't know. 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.639 It wasn't far before because the ambulance people wrung me 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:52.040 about the call that had been made. 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.359 Robert stops himself here, wanting to tell the court. Something 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.720 else first, an event that occurred before David and Amy 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.359 moved to his property, but after David started working for him. 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.160 It involved a few of his other employees dropping him 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.560 off at his Pinjarra home after work one night. 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:13.399 On the Monday. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.160 A couple of the boys said they had gone there 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.800 for a beer or something, but apparently that night when 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.480 they went in there they said, never seen Amy went 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.639 into a rage or something. Well, I didn't ask why 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.000