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Speaker 1: Jacana Energy yesterday announced that they're seeking expressions of interest

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Speaker 1: for the supply of up to one hundred megawatts of

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Speaker 1: renewable energy for the Catherine at Darwin region. Now joining

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Speaker 1: me on the line is the Acting Minister for Renewable Energy.

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Speaker 2: She's also the Treasurer.

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Speaker 1: And the Minister for Planning in Infrastructure and Logistics as

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Speaker 1: well as Education.

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Speaker 2: Eva Laurla. Good morning to you, minister.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 2: Now, Minister, how exactly is this going to work?

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Speaker 1: Is the EOI for specific projects and locations?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so Jacana Energy, and I mean Jacana are the

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Speaker 3: retailer in the Northern Territory, but they obviously can see

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Speaker 3: the value of making sure we have more cleaner, greener,

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Speaker 3: more affordable power. So Jacana pulled down an expression of

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Speaker 3: interest for one hundred megawatts of solar as well as batteries.

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Speaker 3: So the expression of interest will be out for a

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Speaker 3: month and they're looking at possibly three by thirty megawatts

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Speaker 3: or three x thirty five megawatts solar farms. But the

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Speaker 3: area they're looking at is that renewable energy hub that

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory government in budget you know twenty twenty three

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Speaker 3: I put twelve million dollars into a renewable energy hub,

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Speaker 3: and that renewable energy hubbies in that area near Channel Island,

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Speaker 3: you know Weddell Middle Arm, that sort of area over

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Speaker 3: there which is close to close to Channel Island. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: really exciting. It's will provide about fifteen percent towards our

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Speaker 3: target of fifty percent renewables by twenty thirty.

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Speaker 2: So Minister, how will it work.

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Speaker 1: Are the proponents going to be gifted the land or

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Speaker 1: will they come to you with a with a proposal

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Speaker 1: of how they envisage it working.

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Speaker 3: So yes, the Jacana will work. This will all be

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Speaker 3: part of their expression of interest. So the land is

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Speaker 3: a Northern Territory government land, that renewable energy Harby's land

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Speaker 3: that we have, that's Crown land. So then the proponents

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Speaker 3: will come with their expression of interest around what they

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Speaker 3: think they can do and the best deal obviously for Jacana.

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Speaker 3: Jacana is a government owned corporation. But yes, the land's

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Speaker 3: owned by Northern Territory Government will then work with you

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Speaker 3: know Jacana, So Crown Lands will work with Jacana around that.

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Speaker 3: So it will be the aim is to have it

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Speaker 3: up and running by twenty twenty seven. It's about a

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Speaker 3: two hundred million dollar investment in the territory in about

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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty jobs. So a really good news

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Speaker 3: story all round for the territory government, but for territorians

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Speaker 3: really because it is about making sure we have that

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Speaker 3: more you know, the affordable, greener, cleaner power.

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Speaker 1: Look, it certainly sounds like a really good announcement and

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Speaker 1: hopefully you know, cleaner power for Territorians. But from what

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Speaker 1: I can gather, the proposed facilities are larger than those

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Speaker 1: three existing but largely idle farms at Bachelor, Manton Dam

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Speaker 1: and Catherine, two of which are about ten megga watts

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, and the others twenty five. Why

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Speaker 1: have those facilities not been switched on?

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Speaker 3: Yep. So you know that's E and I. That's a

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Speaker 3: private company who's been working with Power and Water around

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Speaker 3: that commissioning phase. So there is about six stages that

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Speaker 3: they need to do and they are both I mean

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Speaker 3: all three of them are fully constructed did but at

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Speaker 3: the commissioning phase, Power and Water need to make sure

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Speaker 3: or system control with Power and Water need to make

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Speaker 3: sure that there is no system blacks that we don't

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Speaker 3: have all of the power go off in the Darwin

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Speaker 3: Catherine's electricity grid. So that's the work that's happening now.

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Speaker 3: So it is you know, easy enough probably you know,

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Speaker 3: but you know, straightforward to build a solar farm. But

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Speaker 3: then it's around those connections and that commissioning to make

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Speaker 3: sure that they can apply with the network technical code.

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Speaker 3: So that that's the hard work and it's the Catherine.

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Speaker 3: The Catherine solar farm has been putting some power into

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Speaker 3: the system, but it is about making sure then that

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Speaker 3: when you know, when they are all up and running,

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Speaker 3: that we can continue to have the stability of the

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Speaker 3: grid because that Darln Catherine system is only actually like

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Speaker 3: a microgrid, it is actually only a small grid compared

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Speaker 3: to what you see across Australia. So we do need

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Speaker 3: to make sure that we keep the pay the power stable.

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Speaker 3: So that's why you can't have put out an expression

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Speaker 3: of interest in batteries.

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Speaker 2: So is that how this is going to be different.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be in a situation where the new

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Speaker 1: projects that we've put the EIA for they're going to

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Speaker 1: require a battery.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so we will it be solar farms as well

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Speaker 3: as a battery. So it's that firming that's needed that

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Speaker 3: stability that's needed so that essential system services. We miss

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Speaker 3: the technical term. But with Catherine Matt and Damon Batchlery,

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Speaker 3: it is making sure that there is that stability. So

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Speaker 3: it's all very well being able to put twenty five

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Speaker 3: megawatts into the system, but then it is you know,

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Speaker 3: if there's so if there's cloud cover, storm cover that

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Speaker 3: comes in, it then drops away and system control of

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Speaker 3: the people that then have to scramble to make sure

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Speaker 3: and stuff up.

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Speaker 1: Was it though with the other three solar farms, because

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Speaker 1: I mean, if we've got these large solar farms that

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Speaker 1: are already there and they need a battery, who's like,

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Speaker 1: who got it wrong?

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Speaker 3: I mean, these are they were done in that work

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Speaker 3: started in early days of solar then twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: But it is about making sure that they can adhere

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Speaker 3: to that network technical code. But the other side is

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Speaker 3: also the d and Catherine Electricity system plan. Some of

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Speaker 3: that work is about making sure that Channel Island now

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Speaker 3: has some quick start generators so you know when you

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Speaker 3: see a drop, the generators that are there, and we

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Speaker 3: are putting in a quick start generator now, but you

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Speaker 3: know the generators that are there are large they stay

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Speaker 3: continuously running, so what and that's you know, that's a

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Speaker 3: bit of a waste if you've got Catherine Matt and

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Speaker 3: dam Bachelor. And I'm doing this very simply. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: there's some experts out there that might be criticizing me now,

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Speaker 3: but I'm trying to do it as simply as possible.

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Speaker 3: But yes, Catherine Matt and Dam and Bachelor, they come

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Speaker 3: in with the large amount of solar, you know, it

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Speaker 3: causes that drop. You need then a generator that can

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Speaker 3: quickly take that up. You need to have some quick starts.

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Speaker 1: Which we saw in Alice Springs a few years back

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Speaker 1: as well where there was those those power outages. So

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Speaker 1: so look, yeah, I understand, but I guess what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to get to the bottom of is with the

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Speaker 1: new like with the new projects that the EOIs have

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Speaker 1: gone out for, so they will be required to also

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Speaker 1: have a battery as part of their EOI so that

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Speaker 1: we're not in this same situation again.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it will be silly not to learn from

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Speaker 3: previous issues. So of course, Jacana, who's you know, a

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Speaker 3: retailer in the territory who are on the ground here,

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Speaker 3: absolutely understand issues and they'll be making sure that they

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Speaker 3: don't make those same issues.

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Speaker 1: So Minister just very quickly with those three existing ones

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Speaker 1: that are already there but require a battery or require

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Speaker 1: some kind of other I guess system back up, firming up.

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Speaker 1: What's the process now, who's going to foot the bill

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Speaker 1: for that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's the work that's happening with Power and

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Speaker 3: Water now, and it has been happening for you know,

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Speaker 3: probably the last two years. Power and Water have been

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Speaker 3: working with and I very closely around finding solutions around

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Speaker 3: that that are yeah, not detrimental necessarily for shareholders, so

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Speaker 3: you know, the Northern Territory government and the public a

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Speaker 3: shareholders in government owned corporation. So that's the work that's

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Speaker 3: happening with A and I.

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Speaker 2: Now it sounds like a pretty big stuff up.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It's as I said, those early days

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Speaker 3: of solar and I mean, this isn't this isn't unusual.

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Speaker 3: It has happened also around Australia, you know, the solar

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Speaker 3: there was a rush for solar, but we do need

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Speaker 3: to make sure and that's you know the role of

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Speaker 3: power and water system control to make sure that the

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Speaker 3: lights stay on in dar on to on the Darn

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Speaker 3: Catherine electricity system. So yeah, we do need to make

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Speaker 3: sure that, yes, if there's an influx of solar, how

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Speaker 3: that's managed where they take the take the energy from.

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Speaker 3: But then if there's a drop off, then it's going

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Speaker 3: to t Gen and their generation that channel channel island

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Speaker 3: to provide that that back up and have that that

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Speaker 3: constant you know, essential system services. So it's not simple,

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Speaker 3: that's pure.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't sound some.

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Speaker 3: Experts who are listening here who probably could find a

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Speaker 3: much better explanation than I am, but yes, very much.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's not something that Northern Territory government wanted

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Speaker 3: to happen, but it has been some work that has

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Speaker 3: to be done because nobody wants a blackout.

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Speaker 1: I guess just very quickly before we move along, are

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Speaker 1: taxpayer is going to have to foot the bill for

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Speaker 1: that for that situation?

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Speaker 3: Well, as I said that, that will be worked through.

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Speaker 3: So that's the you know, the toing and throwings between

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Speaker 3: power and water and system control, but also Jacana who

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Speaker 3: are the retailer, so they're continuing to work through all

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 2: So you know, when do you reckon, we'll know when

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Speaker 2: do you reckon, we'll have an outcome.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, as I said, well, the outcome will be

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Speaker 3: that they will be fully connected. And Catherine has had

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Speaker 3: the Catherine Solofarm has had times where it has been

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Speaker 3: supplying power into the grid. So that will be the

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Speaker 3: through that endpoint. As I said, hopefully sooner rather than later.

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Speaker 3: But there's been not lots of meetings between he and

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Speaker 3: I and Power and Water. Literally, I think those meetings

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Speaker 3: happen almost weekly or fortnightly.

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Speaker 2: Minister. We will move along.

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Speaker 1: Because yesterday doctors in Canberra against fracking and development at

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Speaker 1: Middle Arm Precinct, well, Monique Ryan was one of them.

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Speaker 1: She actually called on the Prime Minister yesterday in Parliament.

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Speaker 1: For those who don't know who Monique Ryan is, she

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Speaker 1: is indeed one of those Teeal independents. She called on

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Speaker 1: the Prime Minister to withdraw support for the Middle Arm

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Speaker 1: Precinct project. Is the project really sustainable?

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Speaker 3: This is as I said, it is frustrating when you have,

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Speaker 3: as we say, people from elsewhere who think that they

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Speaker 3: know what's going on in the territory. She's, as far

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Speaker 3: as I know, she's never come up to the territory.

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Speaker 3: She hasn't arks for a briefing around Middle Arm, so

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Speaker 3: it's easy to pick on the Northern Territory almost you know,

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Speaker 3: have a look at some of the other states and

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Speaker 3: find a project there that you might want to pick on.

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Speaker 3: But let's be really clear. The Environmental Protection Authority, the EPA,

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Speaker 3: the Independent EPA is doing the highest level of environmental

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Speaker 3: assessments at Middle ARM, so they're doing a cross the

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Speaker 3: board assessments there. Then every individual proponent that goes into

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Speaker 3: Middle ARM will also have to have their environmental assessments done,

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Speaker 3: so that overarching environmental assessment will make sure that you know,

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Speaker 3: whether it's the airshed that doesn't exceed limits, whether around

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Speaker 3: the biodiversity. So the Independent EPA will be assessing all

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Speaker 3: of that. So I think they think it's because it's

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Speaker 3: a northern territory that you know, we'll just be going

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Speaker 3: straight ahead and you know, allowing these proponents in then

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Speaker 3: everybody will do what they want. Absolutely the total opposite.

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Speaker 3: We have. Our Environmental Protection Act is one of the

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Speaker 3: best in Australia. That was when I was the Environment Minister.

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Speaker 3: We updated the ep Act and that was a huge

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Speaker 3: amount of work and as I said, it's been recognized

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Speaker 3: as one of the best, if not the best, in

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Speaker 3: Australia Environmental protect So it.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't sound as though you're going to be swayed by

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Speaker 1: Polly's down south at this point.

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Speaker 3: No, it doesn't, and I mean the previous government, so

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Speaker 3: the you know, the Liberal National Coalition committed one point

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Speaker 3: five billion. Labour's committed that one point five billion as well.

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Speaker 3: And it is about jobs for territorians. It is about

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Speaker 3: making sure when we saw the offshore oil and gas

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Speaker 3: when impects we don't see any of that gas being well,

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Speaker 3: we see some of it being used, but we don't

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Speaker 3: see it. Most of it goes to Japan. Now I

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Speaker 3: think it provides about ten percent of gas of Japan's electricity.

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Speaker 3: So that was the issue around or not the issue,

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Speaker 3: but it was the thing that we wanted to do

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Speaker 3: around around the Beaterloo. How do we actually instead of

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Speaker 3: it just going straight past the territory and be exported,

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Speaker 3: how do we actually get jobs for territorians out of this?

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Speaker 3: How do we actually get ongoing employment, long term employment?

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Speaker 3: And so that was the whole concept of middle arm

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Speaker 3: or tying in middle arm to that. But you know,

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Speaker 3: final arm is much more than that. It is about

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Speaker 3: hydrogen production. So yeah, a look about.

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Speaker 1: Playing I know we've got a lot of listeners that

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Speaker 1: listen to the show who will actually agree with you,

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Speaker 1: who will say, you know, they join jobs for Territori se.

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Speaker 3: When people from south down south. But you know the

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Speaker 3: bottom line is otherwise the federal government will have to

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Speaker 3: continue to bail out the Northern Territory. This is and

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Speaker 3: this is with my Treasurer hat On. This is about

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Speaker 3: growing our own source revenue. I can't even build a

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Speaker 3: road in the Northern Territory without going to the federal

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Speaker 3: government to get eighty percent or fifty percent of funding

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Speaker 3: for that. This is about making sure that week as

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Speaker 3: a territory can increase our own source revenue and not

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Speaker 3: rely on the federal government.

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Speaker 1: Minister to play devil's advocate, because I know there'll be

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Speaker 1: others listening who are saying, what about the environment. There

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Speaker 1: are doctors that have gone down there from the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory as well who've got concerns. Is the government prepared

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Speaker 1: to meet with those doctors.

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Speaker 3: I know I met with them when I was the

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Speaker 3: Environment minister. I met with them a number of times.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, of course we meet with those people. Very

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Speaker 3: happy to meet with them. As I said, they're just

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Speaker 3: like any other stakeholder in that environment area. So whether

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Speaker 3: it's you know the environment anyway, all of those groups

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Speaker 3: I know as environment Minister, that was part of your portfolio.

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Speaker 3: You met with your stakeholders. It's whether it's education, Treasury, infrastructure,

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Speaker 3: always meeting stakeholders, Minister.

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Speaker 1: I want to move on to another portfolio, the education portfolio,

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Speaker 1: because there is a parent who's been in contact with

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Speaker 1: us with a situation that was very real for them yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Mel says her daughter was left abandoned yesterday morning near

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Speaker 1: Behrma after the school bus driver missed her stop on

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Speaker 1: Mula Road. She's then asked to she then has to

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Speaker 1: walk to o'lachlan, is my understanding. He refused to let

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Speaker 1: her off at Marara Christian College, but then kicked her

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Speaker 1: off the bus out the back of the RSPCA, heading

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Speaker 1: down vandal and drive to Behrama.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Her mom says that she was harassed at the bus

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Speaker 1: stop and started running back down Vandalen. She tried to

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Speaker 1: refuse to get off, begging the driver to take her

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Speaker 1: to school so she could ring her mum.

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Speaker 2: Now, she was apparently terrified.

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Speaker 1: And called the school for help, who called CDC with

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Speaker 1: the phone ringing out. Her mom says that she found

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Speaker 1: her near the old Police Youth Center. Her mom says

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Speaker 1: she's appalled at the lack of duty of care leaving

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Speaker 1: a fifteen year old on the side of the road,

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Speaker 1: and this is not the first time that it's happened.

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Speaker 2: Minister. Firstly, what is your reaction upon hearing that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds terrible, Katie. Absolutely not what we'd want

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Speaker 3: to see. So CDC is a company, so it's you know,

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Speaker 3: the buses are privatized, but they do have you know,

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Speaker 3: avenues from complaints, so I can work through that one.

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Speaker 3: There's CCTV on the buses, so I know we've had

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Speaker 3: If we have any complaints around the buses, then there's

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Speaker 3: investigations and so we can work through that to get

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Speaker 3: to the bottom of it. Now they identify the driver

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Speaker 3: and follow through around that. But no, no shocking situation.

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Speaker 3: Terrible situation by the sounds of it. But so I

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Speaker 3: can I can get I mean, I've got obviously staff

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Speaker 3: that are listening. Yep, we can follow up around that.

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Speaker 3: So as a Lachland College for s Yeah, we'll make.

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Speaker 1: Sure we get those details for you because we are

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Speaker 1: due to catch up with them a little bit later

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Speaker 1: this morning as well. So I think that her mum

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Speaker 1: would be really good grateful if that was followed up.

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Speaker 1: And I know that it's not the first time we've

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Speaker 1: had parents contact us about, you know, about bus routes

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Speaker 1: being missed, about children being left behind and that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. So I guess the point is that there

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Speaker 1: are some parents that are pretty concerned at what they

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Speaker 1: see as a lack of service or a lack of

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Speaker 1: the standard that you'd expect in some cases.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, CDC have the contract and that

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Speaker 3: contract is managed by the Department of Infrastructure the Transport Areas,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I will chase that up with the director

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Speaker 3: there to follow up because they can investigate and then

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Speaker 3: that's through their contract management.

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Speaker 1: We'd appreciate that. But now, just a very quick one.

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Speaker 1: Digital drivers' licenses. It's something that hospitality and you're going

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Speaker 1: to talk to us about a little bit later on

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Speaker 1: the show. But is it something that you're moving towards

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Speaker 1: or that you're planning to move towards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So often get asked around digital driver's

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Speaker 3: license because everybody just carries their phone now, so there

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Speaker 3: is some work nationally that's happening so that there can

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Speaker 3: be that consistency across Australia. But yes, we are working

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Speaker 3: towards that. But yeah, I very much want to see

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Speaker 3: digital driver's licenses. I couldn't give you a timeline without

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Speaker 3: a bit of an update and a briefing around it.

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Speaker 3: But it's something that we do want to see in

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Speaker 3: the territory and I know the Department are doing that work,

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Speaker 3: but it's working with DCDD as well the IT area

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Speaker 3: of Northern Territory Government.

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Speaker 1: Just a very quick one, I know your press for time.

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Speaker 1: Is there a bit of an update when it comes

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Speaker 1: to OC spray. Earlier this year the government did announce

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Speaker 1: that you're going to be working through the final stages

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Speaker 1: of the role out of the OC spray for transit

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Speaker 1: safety officers.

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Speaker 2: Where are things at?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there has been initial training and the GEL.

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Speaker 3: So we're very much focused on the GEL, which is

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Speaker 3: a targeted deployment rather than having its spray. It's a

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Speaker 3: less disbursement around that, so we have to wait for

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Speaker 3: the legislation to pass before we've ordered that. So we've

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Speaker 3: ordered the GEL and now the department's been working on

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Speaker 3: the other policies procedures that have been putting in washdown

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Speaker 3: facilities for decontainment, that decontamination at the interchanges as well,

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Speaker 3: but hopefully probably I'm thinking around September October we'll see

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Speaker 3: OC spray or the gel being used at buses on

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Speaker 3: bus routes and interchanges as well.

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Speaker 2: Is that later than you'd hot.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember the exact timeline, but it was around

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Speaker 3: getting the legislation in place, because you've got to get

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Speaker 3: the legislation before you order, and you I think it's

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Speaker 3: ordered from the US and you have to have you

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Speaker 3: can't just bring into Australia's spray or gel, so we

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Speaker 3: have to get the legislation pass, which we did. We've

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Speaker 3: now ordered that, but there's also the training that's been

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Speaker 3: that initial training that's been undertaken as well, and then

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Speaker 3: it's been the policies procedures. There's been a whole hip

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Speaker 3: work that has to be done before we can actually

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Speaker 3: just deploy them. So I think September was the timeline

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Speaker 3: and I think that's what we're still aiming for them.

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Speaker 1: Well Treasurer and also Minister Well for Various Portfolios and

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Speaker 1: acting as a Renewables Minister at the moment. Evia Laula

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Speaker 1: always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for chatting

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Speaker 1: with us and we would be really grateful if you

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Speaker 1: are able to follow up that situation with the child.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time this morning.