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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Dunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday,

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Speaker 2: the second of February. I'm Zara, I'm Sam. We've had

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Speaker 2: a lot about Stage three tax cuts lately, and trust me,

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Speaker 2: if you feel like it's hurting your brain saying. Plenty

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Speaker 2: has been said about what is and what isn't changing

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Speaker 2: and who it will impact. But we wanted to dig

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Speaker 2: a little deeper into what these changes actually mean for

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Speaker 2: our audience and young people in particular. So to find out,

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Speaker 2: our journalist Harry Sekulich spoke to the Finance Minister Katie Gallagha.

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Speaker 2: You're going to hear that chat in today's Deep Dive.

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Speaker 2: Before we get there, though, Sam, it's making headlines.

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Speaker 3: The rate of bulk build GP appointments has risen two

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Speaker 3: percent in the two months since. Incentives for GPS to

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Speaker 3: bulk bill for some services tripled. Under the program, Doctors

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Speaker 3: who don't charge some patients for GP visits above the

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Speaker 3: Medicare rebate have received more government funding. Rural and regional

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Speaker 3: areas have benefited the most from the change. The Royal

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Speaker 3: Australian College of GPS welcomes this news, but said there's

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Speaker 3: still a long way to go.

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Speaker 2: A federal inquiry into insurance companies' responses to the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two floods on Australia's East Coast has begun. Committee

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Speaker 2: chair doctor Dan Malino said people in his Victorian electorate

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Speaker 2: are still settling claims and said he looked forward to

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Speaker 2: hearing from insurers. The Insurance Council of Australia's submission to

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Speaker 2: the inquiry said twenty twenty two was a record year

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Speaker 2: for flood losses and that there had been three hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand claims made so far.

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Speaker 3: Farmers across Europe are blocking off major roads in France,

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Speaker 3: Belgium and Italy with their tractors, saying they're struggling to

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Speaker 3: navigate climate regulations and aren't paid enough for their produce.

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Speaker 3: The European Commission that's part of the European Union. Government

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Speaker 3: told media this week negotiations around Farmer's demands are still ongoing,

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Speaker 3: calling them the backbone of EU food security.

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Speaker 2: And the good news. Twenty twenty three was a record

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Speaker 2: year for renewable energy in Greece, with wind, hydroelectric and

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Speaker 2: solar energy making up fifty seven percent of the country's power.

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Speaker 2: That's up almost seven percent from the previous year. The

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Speaker 2: Minister of Environment and Energy said that the increase of

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Speaker 2: renewable energy will lower electricity prices and support the country's

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Speaker 2: energy security.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so Zara, There's been a lot of talk about

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Speaker 3: tax cuts in the first couple of weeks of this year.

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Speaker 3: It's been the big Australian politics story of twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: fours so far. Who knows what this year will hold,

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Speaker 3: and it's certainly dominating debate in Canberra.

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Speaker 2: It is, and it's very likely that you've seen some

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Speaker 2: sort of mention of these tax cuts. I know that

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Speaker 2: we've written a lot about them, and given how crowded

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Speaker 2: the conversation has gotten, I do think that it's fairly

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Speaker 2: easy to get lost or a bit confused over what's

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Speaker 2: actually changing and what is actually changing for you. So

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Speaker 2: our journalist Harry Sekulich sat down with one of the

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Speaker 2: people I'd say is probably best place to answer our questions.

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Speaker 2: That's the Federal Minister for Finance, Katie Gallaher.

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Speaker 4: Here's that chat, Katie Gallaher, thank you so much for

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Speaker 4: joining the Daily Odds today.

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Speaker 5: Thanks very much for having me on.

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Speaker 4: I just want to start by going back to the

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Speaker 4: very basics. How would you explain Stage three tax cuts

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Speaker 4: to someone who's never heard of them? What are they

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Speaker 4: and why is everyone talking about them?

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Speaker 6: So what's known as the Stage three tax cuts were

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Speaker 6: tax cuts that were part of a big tax package,

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Speaker 6: and there was three stages to them. That won two

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Speaker 6: and three and they were passed through the Parliament in

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Speaker 6: twenty nineteen, so about five years ago. And basically stages

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Speaker 6: one and two have happened and then Stage three is

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Speaker 6: due to happen on the first of July, and the

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Speaker 6: final stage of the tax package under Prime Minister Morrison's

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Speaker 6: plan overwhelmingly gave big tax cuts to higher income earners,

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Speaker 6: so people over say one eighty thousand dollars a year

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Speaker 6: they got the majority of the tax cuts, and people

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Speaker 6: on lower incomes and particularly those who were perhaps earning

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Speaker 6: under forty five thousand either got nothing or got a

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Speaker 6: very small amount of the tax cuts. And what's happened

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Speaker 6: in the last week is we won the election in

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty two and so now we're making decisions. And

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Speaker 6: we made a decision about two weeks ago to basically

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Speaker 6: redesign Stage three so that more people could get a

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Speaker 6: bigger tax cut and it could be more fairly distributed

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Speaker 6: through the income scales.

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Speaker 4: As you've mentioned there, Anthony Albanezi and the Labor team

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Speaker 4: heading into the twenty twenty two election did promise it

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Speaker 4: wouldn't change the Stage three tax cuts. It's been nearly

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Speaker 4: two years of questions over will they won't they change them?

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Speaker 4: So why have you waited until now to announce that

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Speaker 4: you have changed them?

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Speaker 6: So we did go to the election and indeed in

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Speaker 6: our first budgets post the election, we didn't change them.

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Speaker 5: I guess what's changed.

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Speaker 6: And the lead up to that is really, you know,

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Speaker 6: cost of living and interest rate increases and inflation being

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Speaker 6: as high as it was, particularly in the last twelve months,

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Speaker 6: has meant people are really under a lot of cost

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Speaker 6: of living pressure and we had to work out a

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Speaker 6: way I think that was about how do we provide

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Speaker 6: some relief to people in a way that doesn't make

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Speaker 6: the inflation problem worse, And the tax cuts were an

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Speaker 6: obvious way of looking at doing that.

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Speaker 5: So we had a couple of choices.

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Speaker 6: We could have kept going and not changed our position

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Speaker 6: in order you know a lot of people would have

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Speaker 6: missed out on tax cuts or certainly bigger tax cuts,

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Speaker 6: or we could have just accept that we've changed our position,

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Speaker 6: economic circumstances have changed, and you know, be upfront and

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Speaker 6: argue that. And that's what we've been doing in the

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Speaker 6: last week, which is why you know there's been so

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Speaker 6: much media coverage about them.

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Speaker 4: The cost of living pressures and strains are nothing new.

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Speaker 4: This time last year people were saying that they were

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Speaker 4: really feeling the pinch of high inflation. So I go

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Speaker 4: back to my question, why now and why not twelve

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Speaker 4: months ago?

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Speaker 6: Well, again the answer that well, I think we've had

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Speaker 6: a number of interest rate increases. We've had twelve of those,

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Speaker 6: so that has changed over the last year. The interest

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Speaker 6: rate increases just continuing and that has really impacted people

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Speaker 6: on middle incomes particularly, And some of the analysis that

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Speaker 6: led up to the decision we took confirms this, and

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Speaker 6: I think one of the things the Treasurer and myself

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Speaker 6: and the PM considered over the summer as we were

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Speaker 6: talking about this was how do we reach people who

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Speaker 6: haven't benefited from that other cost of living measures we've

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Speaker 6: put in place. And again, you know, the advice from

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Speaker 6: our departments was clear, one of the options available to

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Speaker 6: you is to look at how you can provide tax relief.

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Speaker 6: And under the plan we've announced, eighty four percent of

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Speaker 6: taxpayers will get a bigger tax cut. And you know,

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Speaker 6: governments have to make these tough decisions, even if there's

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Speaker 6: political consequences to it. We felt that it was the

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Speaker 6: right thing to do.

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Speaker 4: So men still stand to benefit more from these new

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Speaker 4: tax cards than women do. So that's fifty eight percent

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Speaker 4: of tax carts will go to men while forty two

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Speaker 4: percent will go to women. Why is that and what

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Speaker 4: would it take to make that number fifty to fifty?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so a couple of things there. This is certainly

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Speaker 6: an improved tax package for women. But you're right, the

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Speaker 6: reason men get more of a beneficiary is essentially because

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Speaker 6: you see more men in the higher income brackets, and

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Speaker 6: the higher income brackets still get a pretty reasonable tax

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Speaker 6: cut under the revised plan, so that's largely it.

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Speaker 5: Women are more in the lower.

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Speaker 4: So why not bring in more tax relief for people

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Speaker 4: on lower incomes rather than providing higher relief for people

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Speaker 4: on hire incomes.

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Speaker 5: Sure, you know, and I think that's a valid question.

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Speaker 6: And one thing we've tried to do here is ensure

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Speaker 6: that everyone gets a tax cut, which wasn't the case

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Speaker 6: under the previous plan. So our starting point is everyone

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Speaker 6: gets a tax cut. More Australian workers get a bigger

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Speaker 6: tax cut, ninety percent of women get a bigger tax cut,

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Speaker 6: but that everyone gets a tax cut because you know,

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Speaker 6: the stages one and two had primarily focused.

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Speaker 5: On low and middle income earners.

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Speaker 6: So you know, this is a much better deal for women,

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Speaker 6: and for women working in those highly feminized industries that

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Speaker 6: we know they're located in like childcare, nursing, teaching, you know,

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Speaker 6: age and disability cares, where you know eighty percent of

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Speaker 6: the workforce is women, they stand to get a significantly

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Speaker 6: bigger tax cut.

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Speaker 4: The Daily Os has a young audience, so for example,

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Speaker 4: plenty of UNI students are listening to this podcast and

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Speaker 4: they earn less than eighteen two hundred dollars a year,

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Speaker 4: and some will earn above that threshold, which is the

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Speaker 4: tax free threshold, but still earn below forty five thousand

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Speaker 4: dollars a year. Will the government announce any further measures

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Speaker 4: for those people? And what cost of living relief exists

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Speaker 4: for them at the moment?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so the tax free threshold under our plan stays

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Speaker 6: the same. So people, you know, as you point out,

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Speaker 6: earning eighteen thousand, two hundred don't pay any tax. And

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Speaker 6: then for people who move into and there is you're right,

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Speaker 6: there's a lot of young people in the first tax bracket,

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Speaker 6: which is between eighteen two hundred and forty five thousand.

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Speaker 6: They will get a tax cut because we're lowering the

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Speaker 6: tax rate for that threshold from nineteen cents to sixteen cents,

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Speaker 6: So they will see a tax cut. And under the

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Speaker 6: previous Stage three, under the Morrison Stage three, they didn't

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Speaker 6: receive a tax cut at all, so that is improved

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Speaker 6: for them. But yeah, I mean, how we can provide

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Speaker 6: additional cost of living relief across the board. I think

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Speaker 6: there's particularly demographics that are doing it tough. I know

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Speaker 6: a lot about housing investments really about trying to free

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Speaker 6: up increased supply because the young people are really feeling

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Speaker 6: it on the rental front, and so the more work

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Speaker 6: we can do there, the better it is. And you know,

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Speaker 6: we're putting a huge amount of effort into that. But

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Speaker 6: this is an ongoing piece of work before government. How

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Speaker 6: can we manage the budget, manage the inflation challenge which

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Speaker 6: is real at the moment, or we've had some excellent

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Speaker 6: numbers today that show inflation continuing to moderate and provide

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Speaker 6: cost of living rellyaff at the same time. That's the

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Speaker 6: challenge before us, and the tax plan is part of that.

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Speaker 4: Rents, energy, and grocery prices, they're all soaring beyond what

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Speaker 4: some people can afford. And as I mentioned, this is

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Speaker 4: also nothing new. So given that the highest income earners

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Speaker 4: in the country will pay four and a half thousand

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Speaker 4: dollars less tax per year, does that send the wrong

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Speaker 4: message to low income earners at this particularly trying time.

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Speaker 6: Oh well, I guess what we're trying to do is

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Speaker 6: we're trying not to pit one group of income earners

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Speaker 6: against another. What we've tried to do with this plan

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Speaker 6: is make sure that everyone gets a tax cut. Higher

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Speaker 6: income earners pay more tax, for example, than lower income

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Speaker 6: earners because we have a progressive tax regime, and so

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Speaker 6: it's fair that we provide relief through the income brackets

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Speaker 6: because everyone in those income brackets are paying tax, some

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Speaker 6: are paying it at a higher rate than others, and

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Speaker 6: that's appropriate.

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Speaker 4: Morel for the more you earn.

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Speaker 6: Well that's you know, if you're in those higher income brackets,

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Speaker 6: you are paying more tax on the dollar you earn

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Speaker 6: and providing more tax as a whole back into the system.

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Speaker 6: So I think what we've tried to do is find

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Speaker 6: a way that gives everyone a tax cut, but shares

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Speaker 6: that more fairly through the income brackets, and then target

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Speaker 6: our additional cost of living relief, for example, to those

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Speaker 6: on lower incomes.

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Speaker 5: And that's what we've been trying to do.

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Speaker 6: Like our billions of dollars that we put into energy

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Speaker 6: rebates was not targeted at any household in Australia. It

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Speaker 6: was targeted to those who are on low incomes in

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Speaker 6: receipt of concessions or pensions. That's how you do it.

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Speaker 6: You've got to come at this in a variety of ways.

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Speaker 6: But I think where we landed was that it was

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Speaker 6: right that we should return as much tax as we

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Speaker 6: could back into people's pockets through the income scale, but

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Speaker 6: more fairly share it through the income brackets and making

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Speaker 6: sure that lower and middle incomellians are the major beneficiaries.

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Speaker 4: So here's what's going to happen next. These reworked tax

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Speaker 4: cuts that the government has announced aren't necessarily a sure thing.

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Speaker 4: You as a government still need support from the Greens

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Speaker 4: and cross benches or the coalition to get them through

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Speaker 4: the Parliament. Do you feel confident that the measures will pass.

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Speaker 6: Well, they'll definitely pass the House of Representatives, they'll come

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Speaker 6: to the Senate where I sit, and that's an area

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Speaker 6: where we do. The Government doesn't have a majority of votes,

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Speaker 6: so we do have to rely on the support of

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Speaker 6: other senators in that chamber. But I would be very

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Speaker 6: surprised if we had opposition to eleven and a half

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Speaker 6: million Australians getting a bigger tax cut. We hope that

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Speaker 6: the Coalition will support them, but at the end of

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Speaker 6: the day, it's like any other piece of ledge. In

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Speaker 6: order for us to get it through, we have to

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Speaker 6: work with cross bench colleagues the opposition. But I'm very

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Speaker 6: optimistic that when those final votes come, even though there

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Speaker 6: might be a bit of noise around them, a bit

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Speaker 6: of turbulence in the chamber when that final vote comes,

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Speaker 6: that the chamber will support them because you know, everybody

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Speaker 6: knows cost of living is the main game, and this

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Speaker 6: returns more money back into people's pockets. It's the right

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Speaker 6: thing to do.

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Speaker 4: Senator Katie Gallaha, thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 4: at the Daily Ours. And I guess the biggest takeaway

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Speaker 4: is that gen Z have a new term for legislation.

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Speaker 4: They can just call it leg now. I guess.

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Speaker 5: You can say a gen X gave something to gen Z.

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Speaker 4: Intergenerational contribution.

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Speaker 3: We love it.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much again.

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Speaker 3: So Zarah. I guess Harry and the Minister touched on

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Speaker 3: there what's going to happen next with the tax cuts,

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Speaker 3: but given they aren't really a sure thing, do you

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Speaker 3: think we should be bracing for more tax related debate

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Speaker 3: in the media but also in camber.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. They mentioned there that the changes still need to

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Speaker 2: get through the Senate, where we know the government doesn't

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Speaker 2: have a majority, and that means that the conversation isn't

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Speaker 2: going anywhere. They're going to have to get crossbench support

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Speaker 2: or opposition support of some description, and so it's likely

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Speaker 2: to really dominate the new cycle quite significantly. The Coalition

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Speaker 2: has been very vocal in its disapproval of the government

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Speaker 2: and the Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi making these changes. They've

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Speaker 2: labeled it a broken promise. That's referring there to what

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Speaker 2: happened during the election. On the other hand, and for

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Speaker 2: a different reason, the Greens have criticized the government for

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Speaker 2: not offering more support to people on lower incomes. The

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Speaker 2: Greens haven't landed on their position yet, so we'll have

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Speaker 2: to wait and see what happens there and who will

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Speaker 2: support the government if they are to get this legislation up.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to that episode of The Daily. I

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Speaker 3: was in a huge week of the podcast for us.

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Speaker 3: The three day vaping series was really a great way

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Speaker 3: for us to start the podcast off this year. I'll

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Speaker 3: throw some links in today's show notes to those three

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Speaker 3: episodes for some weekends listening. We'll be back again next

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Speaker 3: week in your ears on Monday morning. Until then, have

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Speaker 3: a great weekend already, And this is this.

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Speaker 4: Is the Daily, This is the da Oh now it

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Speaker 4: makes sense.

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Speaker 6: Mm hmm.