1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: the seventeenth of April. I'm Zara Seidler. 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: I'm Sam Kazlowski. 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 2: Harvard University is facing a major financial blow after the 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: Trump administration froze two point two billion dollars in federal 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: funding this week. The prestigious institution has refused to comply 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: with a series of government demands relating to both diversity 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: policies and anti semitism. Today, we're unpacking what's happened in 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: this unprecedented standoff between one of America's most elite universities 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: and the White House. 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: Zara, this is a pretty significant development in President Trump's 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: relationship with universities, American universities, which is some of the 15 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: most famous in the world. Can you break down exactly 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: what's happened here though with Harvard? 17 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: So earlier this week, the Trump administration announced that it 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: was freezing around two point two billion US dollars, So 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: that's around three point five billion Australian dollars in grants 20 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 2: to Harvard Universities. Now, that came in response to Harvard 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: refusing to comply with a list of demands that came 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 2: from the government. Now, as you said, there is some 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: context here between the relationship of the Trump administration and 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: specifically higher education in the United States, and more specifically, 25 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 2: over the last several weeks, we've really seen the Trump 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: administration putting this increased pressure on universities, specifically focusing around 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: two main issues. Now, those issues are anti semitism on 28 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: campuses and DEI, which we know stands for diversity, equity 29 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: and inclusion when it comes to hiring and admission practices. Now, 30 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 2: the government has been warning universities that if they don't 31 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: comply with their demands on these issues, they could stand 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: to lose billions in federal funding. 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so before we get into the specific demands, can 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: you give us a bit of background on Harvard's relationship 35 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: with government funding. Yes. 36 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 2: So, I'm sure many of our listeners are familiar with Harvard. 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: It's one of, if not the world's, most prestigious universities. 38 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: It's a Lacrosse did not go there. 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: Mike Ross from since did not attend, but many other 40 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: famous people have attended. Its alumni and faculty have earned 41 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: more than one hundred and sixty Nobel Prizes, with the 42 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: most recent one being awarded just this year. And I 43 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: think that that paints a very clear picture about the 44 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 2: caliber of participants at this college. And when it comes 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: to finances, like many other colleges, Harvard has an endowment, 46 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 2: So that's basically a fund of donated money that has 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: been incoming into the college. Now, Harvard's endowment stands at 48 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: around fifty billion dollars, whoa heaps of money. However, the 49 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: university does still rely quite heavily on federal funding for 50 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: research in particular. In fact, in twenty twenty four, the 51 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: US government supplied about sixty eight percent of Harvard's outside 52 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: research funding. So the freeze that we've been talking about 53 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 2: represents quite a significant portion of federal research grants and 54 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: contracts for Harvard. 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: So how did we get here? I mean, this is 56 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: a really major escalation. There is so much going on 57 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: in the Trump administration at the moment, it's interesting that 58 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: we got to this point. What led to this standoff? 59 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: Look, the short answer here is that this has been 60 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: brewing for a long time. 61 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 3: It hasn't come out of nowhere. 62 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: Both during the campaign and then once Donald Trump was inaugurated, 63 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: he made very clear that he had colleges, especially Ivy 64 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 2: League colleges, which are kind of the upper echelon of 65 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: US colleges, He had them in his sites, and he 66 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: has stood firm on that. He believes that they need 67 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: to be doing more on anti semitism, and he believes 68 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: that there is too much of a focus on DEI, 69 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: so those diversity and inclusion programs at these colleges, and 70 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: so over the past couple of months, he's basically been 71 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: implementing this crackdown on those colleges. When it comes to 72 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: Harvard in particular, though, this started on March thirty first, 73 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 2: when the White House announced that it was conducting a 74 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: review of Harvard's federal contracts and grants, specifically with the 75 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: aim to combat anti semitism. Then last Friday, the administration 76 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: sent a letter to Harvard's president, doctor Alan Garba, stating 77 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: that the university had quote failed to live up to 78 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: both the intellectual and civil rights conditions that justify federal investment. 79 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: I's strongly worded. 80 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 2: Very I mean, if there's one thing about this story, 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: it's that nothing has been lightly worded on either side here. Basically, 82 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: though that letter that I was just talking about that 83 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 2: was sent last Friday, detailed a list of demands from 84 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: the Trump administration to Harvard that the college would need 85 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: to meet in order to maintain its federal funding. 86 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: And what type When you said demands, what type of 87 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: thing are you talking about here? You're talking about like 88 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: course curriculums and all of that question. 89 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: I mean, it is quite unfamiliar to an Australian audience, 90 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: and it is fairly unprecedented until now to have a 91 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: sort of list of demands sent to a private institution. 92 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: The demands are themselves pretty extensive, so I guess I'll 93 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: just go through a high level run through of what 94 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: they are. So, the government wants Harvard to hire independent 95 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: auditors to ensure that its departments have what they call 96 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: diverse viewpoints, though we don't actually get any elaboration in 97 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 2: the letter about what that means. Other demands include the 98 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: government wanting oversight of Harvard's hiring, promotions, and admissions processes. 99 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: They've also demanded that Harvard reject applicants from non US 100 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: citizens who are deemed to be hostile to American values. 101 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: That's a direct quote there, but again that term isn't 102 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: actually defined On top of that, the government wants Harvard 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: to report any international student accused of breaking university rules 104 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: directly to the federal government, so rather than working through 105 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: an internal process, that that process be expedited and sent 106 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: straight to the government. The administration also calls for a 107 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 2: ban on face masks and an end to funding quote 108 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: any student group or club that endorses or promotes criminal activity, 109 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: illegal violence, or illegal harassment. Now that's kind of the 110 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: clearest link made to the pro Palestinian protests that we 111 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: saw on college campuses, the encampments that we saw last year. 112 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: But then the Trump administration also requests that Harvard reforms 113 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: programs with egregious records of anti Semitism or other bias. 114 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: And by programs them in courses right. 115 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 3: Yes, and departments. 116 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: So a similar request was made of Columbia, and they 117 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: basically had to move the management of the Middle East 118 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: department at that college under different management. And so they 119 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: are looking for Harvard here to commission an external party, 120 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: and that external party needs to be a pro by 121 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: the government themselves to audit those programs and departments that 122 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: they say most fuel antisemitic harassment. 123 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: So this is clearly not business as usual. No, in 124 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: terms of the standard relationship between a government and a 125 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: US university. How has Harvard now responded to these demands. 126 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: Well, Harvard has pretty firmly rejected those demands. 127 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: Which puts funding on the line right well exactly. 128 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we're talking about it today. So 129 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: doctor Alan Garba, who I mentioned was the president, he 130 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: came out with a very strongly worded statement where he said, 131 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: no government, regardless of which party is in power, should 132 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit 133 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they 134 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: can pursue. We were then shown a letter from Harvard 135 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 2: lawyers who argued that the demands by the Trump administration 136 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: violate Harvard's right to free speech and that they also 137 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: exceed the government's authority. I was reading through that letter 138 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: and I'll just pull out a few of the key quotes. 139 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: The lawyers claim that Harvard is committed to fighting anti 140 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: Semitism and other forms of bigotry, and that anti Semitism 141 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: and discrimination of any kind not only are a borrant 142 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: and antithetical to Harvard's values, but also threaten its academic mission. 143 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 2: But ultimately then the letter by those lawyers concludes that 144 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: Harvard is not prepared to agree to the demands that 145 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,119 Speaker 2: go beyond the lawful authority of this or any administration. 146 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: And so we have there a refusal by Harvard to 147 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: respond to the demands or to make the change that 148 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: the Trump administration want. And therefore we fast forward, and 149 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: the White House has now announced the immediate freezing of 150 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,599 Speaker 2: more than a quarter of Harvard's federal research grants and contracts. 151 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: And just to zoom out for one sec this is 152 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: now becoming a common theme of the legal opposition to 153 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: the Trump administration in this second term, of trying to 154 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: examine what is and is outside of the scope of 155 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: presidential power. I mean, there's a group of small businesses 156 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: in the Marriaka taking the administrations to court this week over tariff, 157 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: saying it is exceeding the powers usually given to a president. 158 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: So it's interesting that this isn't just in this area, 159 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: it's across a lot of different areas. So the administration 160 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: comes out and freezes a quarter of Harvard's federal research grants. 161 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: What's been the response to Harvard taking that stand. 162 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: Look, it's been fairly mixed, and I don't think that 163 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: that would surprise anyone. On the one hand, there are 164 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 2: current and former students who are backing Harvard's moves, suggesting 165 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 2: that this is upholding the integrity of the institution. One 166 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: of those former students you might be familiar with is 167 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: one Barack Obama. 168 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: I've heard of him. 169 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: He's, you know, a familiar name. 170 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: He attended Harvard, and he took to social media to 171 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: praise the decision. He said, it's set an example for 172 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: other higher ed institutions to reject an unlawful and handhanded 173 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: attempt to stifle academic freedom while taking concrete steps to 174 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: make sure all students at Harvard can bear fit from 175 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: an environment of intellectual inquiry, rigorous debate, and mutual respect. 176 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: And that precedent point is really important here, because, as 177 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: we've briefly inferred, Harvard is not the only school that 178 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,239 Speaker 2: is experiencing this sort of like negotiation with the Trump administration. 179 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier that Columbia is another such school that 180 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: Donald Trump has in his sights. They are currently in 181 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 2: negotiations with the Trump administration, and what we understand is 182 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: that they have agreed to a number of the demands 183 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 2: made by the administration, but here we have Harvard, at 184 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: least to the public, being the first school to actively 185 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 2: reject the demands made. And so what precedent this sets 186 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: for other schools across the country who are also looking 187 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: at having their funding frozen. It is really interesting. 188 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: Is there more that President Trump can continue to kind 189 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: of threaten threaten Harvard with? Yeah? 190 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: I mean, it's a good question, because Donald Trump is 191 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: certainly doubling down. He is now talking about whether or 192 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: not Harvard should lose its tax exempt status, and he 193 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: is suggesting that perhaps Harvard needs to be taxed as 194 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: a political entity. He says, and I'm quoting here if 195 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: it keeps pushing political ideological and terrorist inspired supporting sickness. 196 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: And so, just to be clear that if the tax 197 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: exemption status of Harvard were to change, which would be 198 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: highly significant, we could again see Harvard losing billions and 199 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: billions of dollars under this move. But there hasn't been 200 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 2: any confirmation from the administration beyond that truth social post 201 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: that the Trump administration is actually thinking about doing this. 202 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: Right now, perhaps I'll just break that down a little 203 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: bit more so, at the moment, Harvard would be taxed 204 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: zero dollars for any of its income because it's classified 205 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: as an education institution, and that's essentially a saving it 206 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: makes because it doesn't pay money to the tax office. 207 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: A political entity would be taxed a higher amount than zero. 208 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: And Trump is basically saying that, you know, you could 209 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: wake up tomorrow morning, Harvard, and you could have a 210 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: tax bill that could potentially be in the hundreds of millions. 211 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 3: Yeah. 212 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a pretty serious next step. Where do 213 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: you see this all going, what happens next? And could 214 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: Harvard actually even appeal decisions against it? 215 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? 216 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: Well, again, I think it does need to be restated 217 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: that this is a fairly unprecedented situation, both for Harvard 218 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 2: and for the administration. There's not really anything that either 219 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 2: of them can point to in terms of next steps 220 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: that are clearly set out. So one option is that, yes, 221 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: Harvard could challenge this in court. They could argue that 222 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: there has been government overreach and that the demands violate 223 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: principles of academic freedom. Another alternative is that they could 224 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: go back to the negotiating table exactly, and that they 225 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 2: could settle on a compromise with the administration, though at 226 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: this point that does seem less likely. But you know, 227 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 2: we have no idea what's happening behind closed doors. But 228 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: in the meantime, the existential threat that Harvard has to 229 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 2: deal with is that it now has this huge funding 230 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: gap that has almost entirely emerged overnight. 231 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 3: And so I was reading that there have. 232 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 2: Been a number of stop work orders made to certain 233 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: faculties undergoing research, that their research grants have just been 234 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 2: taken and therefore they cannot continue to invest in that research. 235 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: So don't come to work today because we don't have 236 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: the money to pay you right now. 237 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: Correct, And so I suspect we'll see a bit more 238 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: of that over the coming weeks and months. But this 239 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: story is still developing, and whether or not either party 240 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 2: negotiates compromises, we really don't know at this point. 241 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: It's a really interesting stories, Szara, that, as we've said 242 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: a couple of times now, doesn't have a historical example 243 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: for us to go and look at and examine what 244 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: could happen next. So we're going to have to keep 245 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: a really close eye on this one. And thank you 246 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of The Daily Oz. We'll 247 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: be back in the afternoon with our afternoon headlines. If 248 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode, Flick it to a friend means 249 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: the world to us. We'll speak to you later. My 250 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung 251 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: Kalkadoon woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that 252 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl 253 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate 254 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: island and nations. We pay our respects to the first 255 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: peoples of these countries, both past and present.