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Speaker 1: Now joining us right now. He has been listening to

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Speaker 1: that budget being delivered and also I believe in that

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Speaker 1: budget lock up. Matt Cunningham from Sky News get a

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Speaker 1: Matt will be How are you good, mate? Probably better

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Speaker 1: than you are you still awake after all those hours

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Speaker 1: of listening to what's happening with the Northern Territory budget.

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Speaker 2: I always, I always struggle with the lock up a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I said, you know, my concentration span, you know,

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Speaker 2: not great. So I apologize in advance. You know, I'm

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Speaker 2: a little bit light on some of the detail, but

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Speaker 2: I can give you a headline, will be all right,

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Speaker 2: I'm ready, I'm ready. Well it's interesting. I mean, we're

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Speaker 2: going to have a record eleven billion dollar debt wow

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Speaker 2: in the next financial year as the government makes mastive investments,

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Speaker 2: particularly in the law and order space. Now you know

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Speaker 2: a lot of these announcements have been made already. Five

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy million dollars for extra police. We saw

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Speaker 2: the ninety million dollars for police as well announced yesterday. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: Chief for the Commissioner and Evil Law is making it

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Speaker 2: clear that crime and law and order is the number

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Speaker 2: one issue here in the Northern Territory and that she's

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Speaker 2: going to spend the money to try and do something

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Speaker 2: about it. And you'd have to say that's a sharp

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Speaker 2: detour from where the government sat six months ago, where

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Speaker 2: it almost appeared to be in denial about what the

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Speaker 2: problem was. So you know, Evia Laylas, she's calling it

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Speaker 2: a common sense budget. She says she's a territory and

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Speaker 2: he's going to live here for the rest of her life.

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Speaker 2: That she's committing big bucks. So I mean, in the

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Speaker 2: short term, we know those announcements that have been made

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Speaker 2: already around the funding for police, around the funding for

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Speaker 2: extra call takers in the Triple Os Center, extra money

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Speaker 2: for prisons, for don Dale to be repurposed, for the

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Speaker 2: Alcohol Rehabilitation facility to be repurposed as a women's prison,

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Speaker 2: for the facility in Our Springs to be repurposed as

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Speaker 2: women's prison. So you know, most of the things that

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Speaker 2: are in this budget, I think that have been announced

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Speaker 2: the head of the budget. But today we get to

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Speaker 2: dig into the detail of what it's going to cost.

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Speaker 2: Eleven billion dollars will see, which is a record net

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Speaker 2: debt for the Northern Territory, and that's ballooning out to

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Speaker 2: twelve point three billion dollars over the forward estimates.

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Speaker 1: Now, to give you.

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Speaker 2: An indication of what that's costing at the moment, that

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Speaker 2: means forty more than forty two thousand dollars per person

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Speaker 2: in debt. Now, the Victorian government delimited its budget last

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Speaker 2: week and it was roundly condemned because the debt is

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Speaker 2: at such a huge number. But I think its step

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Speaker 2: per resident was about twenty seven thousand dollars. We're looking

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Speaker 2: at forty two thousand dollars per person and that's blowing

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Speaker 2: out over the forward estimates to be about forty five

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Speaker 2: or forty six thousand, I think by twenty twenty seven,

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Speaker 2: twenty eight. And then the other thing is the interest

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Speaker 2: on that debt. So at the moment, you know, I

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Speaker 2: remember a couple of years ago we're talking about, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're now paying a million dollars in interest per day. Well,

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Speaker 2: we're now paying one point six million dollars in interest

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Speaker 2: per day on that debt, and that number is going

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Speaker 2: to blow out to more than two million dollars two

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Speaker 2: point zho seven million dollars per day by the end

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Speaker 2: of the Ford estimate. So that's a pretty extraordinary amount

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Speaker 2: of money that is that's huge, it is, and the

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Speaker 2: net the net debt to revenue ratio. The goal is

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Speaker 2: for the government to have it at fifty percent. It

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Speaker 2: states that goal and the budget pay but that number

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Speaker 2: is ballooning out to more than one hundred and thirty percent,

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Speaker 2: So you want it to be at six cent a lower.

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Speaker 2: It's at one hundred and thirty percent, and consistently over

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Speaker 2: the Ford estimates it's between one hundred and twenty and

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Speaker 2: one hundred and forty percent, and one day it gets

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Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty three percent. And in many cases

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Speaker 2: this is best case scenario modeling. You know, I often

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Speaker 2: we see a budget blowout. Last year's budget, for instance,

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Speaker 2: which is included in these budget paper blew out by

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Speaker 2: almost a billion dollars. We spent more than a billion

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Speaker 2: dollars actually than we expected to over the past financial year.

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Speaker 2: That was often slightly by extra revenue from different places.

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Speaker 2: But you know, it's a pretty dire financial situation that

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Speaker 2: we're looking at, and one that we've never been in before.

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Speaker 1: The well, this is the thing, and Matt, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's I think it's sometimes a really difficult thing as

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Speaker 1: well for the average territory and to sort of wrap

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Speaker 1: their head around. You know, even for me, like when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the budget money, for a lot of us,

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Speaker 1: it almost feels like you're talking about monopoly money. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about money that none of us feel like

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Speaker 1: we ever really kind of see. But these levels, like

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Speaker 1: the level of debt that like eleven billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: the next financial it's hard to even wrap your head

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Speaker 1: around that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an extraordinary amount of money and it really

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Speaker 2: does create issues down the track. Now, the other thing

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Speaker 2: that's interesting in the budget is our reliance on revenue

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Speaker 2: from the Commonwealth. So seventy two percent of our revenue

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Speaker 2: walking is coming from the Commonwealth. The other twenty eight

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Speaker 2: percent basically comes from domestic taxes and from royalty. Now

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Speaker 2: we had to hit to our royalties. We've had to

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Speaker 2: hit to our royalties over the next budget period because

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Speaker 2: of the shutdown on Grout Island caused by Cyclone Megan

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Speaker 2: and by the closure of the colithium mine. So that

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Speaker 2: also gives you an indication of how important the resources

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Speaker 2: industry is to the Northern Territory. Now we're going to

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Speaker 2: see a spike in state final demand over the next

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Speaker 2: couple of years because the Barossa project's going to come

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Speaker 2: online and we're going to see an increase in our exports.

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Speaker 2: But other than that, you know, there really is a

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Speaker 2: bit of a black hole coming. Remembering that not included

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Speaker 2: in this budget are projects that don't yet have final

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Speaker 2: investment decisions, So the Beaterloo Basin project, for example, is

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Speaker 2: not included in this budget. Yes, we're expecting financial we're

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Speaker 2: expecting final investment decision by the middle of this year,

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Speaker 2: and that might change the outlook a bit and make

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Speaker 2: for a rosy picture, but without that you'd have to

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Speaker 2: say we really are in state going forward.

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Speaker 1: I mean, has the Chiefmentesster given any indication and I

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Speaker 1: know this is probably more so going to come at

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Speaker 1: that press conference that she's doing a little bit later

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Speaker 1: this morning rather than in the actual delivery of her

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Speaker 1: budget speech, but has she given any real indication as

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Speaker 1: to how she is planning to manage that level of debt?

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Speaker 2: No, certainly not in the budget speech as I read it,

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Speaker 2: but there will no doubt be questions about that coming up,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure one of the answers will be, you know,

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Speaker 2: to drive more invests like investment in the Beterloo basin.

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Speaker 2: Because the other issue we're facing going forward looking is

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Speaker 2: that you know Rio Tinto's mind at Normal Boy, he's

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Speaker 2: going shut down in the next five to ten years.

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Speaker 2: GMCO on Griod Island will shut down eventually. We've already

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Speaker 2: seen er shut down at Jabbaru. So if we can't

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Speaker 2: find new minds, new resources projects to come alive, then

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Speaker 2: we're really going to be in trouble because that's seventy

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Speaker 2: two percent of revenue we get from the Commonwealth at

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Speaker 2: the moment is going to balloon to sort of eighty

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Speaker 2: eighty five ninety percent. And then you know, at that

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Speaker 2: point you wonder what the point of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: is at all. You wonder whether we just shut up,

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Speaker 2: shut up shop and hand ourselves back over to the

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Speaker 2: said if that's where all the money's coming from. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: these are the big issue problems. I'm going to be

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Speaker 2: over live across the sky. But no worries eleven billion

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Speaker 2: dollars that's most of the investment coming in law and order,

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Speaker 2: common sense, budget, common sense.

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Speaker 1: She's calling it. Matt Cunningham. Good on, you appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you go and do your day job that

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Speaker 1: they pay you for. Thank you, thank you,