1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: Oh as I mentioned a little earlier the Australian Catholic 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: University's latest survey of Australia's Principles. It sounds a dire warning, 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: with school leaders across the nation reporting worsening levels of 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: anxiety and depression as they continue to face levels of 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: physical violence and threats and bullying. Now, despite the spike 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: in violence and the toll of mental health and well being, 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: the survey found school leaders showed surprisingly high levels of 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: job satisfaction and their work commitment remained high. The Australian 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: Principal Occupational Health, Safety and well Being Survey, it's compiled 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: by the ACU's Institute of Positive Psychology and Education. Now 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory, it found that seventy one percent 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: of principles said they'd been subject to threats of physical violence, 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: sixty point five percent to being subject of gossip or slander. 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is the president of 15 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Principles Association, Carolyn Edwards. 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Carolyn. 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 3: Good morning, how are you? Yeah? 18 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: Really good? 19 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: Lovely to have you on the show. Carolyn, do you 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: know how many Northern. 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: Territory Principles took. 22 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: Part in the annual survey or is it something that 23 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: our principles tend to be part of. 24 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: I don't know the number. That is something that's not disclosed, 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 3: but Northern Territory Principles have participate in the survey for 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 3: over a decade now, so it's a longitudinal study and 27 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: the study is Australia White the survey. 28 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that's really interesting and I think 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: it's a really good thing if it happens over a 30 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: long period of time because you can sort of look 31 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: at some of the trends and changes that we might 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: be experiencing across Australia, but also here in the NT, Carolyn, 33 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: what are our school principles saying to you? 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 3: What they're saying is that it's a combination of different 35 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 3: factors that are impacting on their work. Some of it 36 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: is the administrative burden, some of it is parents and 37 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 3: community members coming to schools and threatening principles, but principals 38 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 3: are also protecting their teachers from and their administration staff. 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,559 Speaker 3: And then you've got you know, social media is impacting 40 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 3: on everything that they do. So it's a really complex 41 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 3: situation of lots of different trigger points. 42 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: And Carolyn, I don't think anybody could argue that the 43 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: role the job of a school principle is an incredibly 44 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: tough one. You know, there would be so much to 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: juggle now. In terms of some of those findings related 46 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: to the Northern Territory, seventy one percent of principles said 47 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: they'd been subject to threats of physical violence, sixty point 48 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: five have been subject of gossip or sla What kind 49 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: of situations are our principals telling you that they have 50 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: been subjected to. 51 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 3: Well, it's I don't hear every single principal story. And 52 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: I think what this survey does is it gives our 53 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 3: principal a sense of being anonymous in reflecting truly how 54 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: they're feeling. But it often is it's a combination, like 55 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: I said before, of parents and community members not understanding 56 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 3: exactly what's happening in the school with their child or 57 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: their children. And it's also a lot worse when our 58 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: principals are remote and very remote schools, because they could 59 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: only be themselves and another teacher, and it depends on 60 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: what's happening in the community, and schools are remote areas, 61 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 3: they've become the half of the community so they're impacted 62 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: even more on what's happening. 63 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: Carolyn, what would you say is some of the most 64 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: important findings in the survey which do need to be highlighted. 65 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: As you said, this has been going for more than 66 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: ten years, now, what do you think are some of 67 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: the more important points for this year. 68 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 3: I'll think what the survey the researchership said is that 69 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: there has to be a wrap around a solution from 70 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 3: government and departments, not just the Northern Territory but Australia 71 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 3: wide because if you look at the complexity of the 72 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 3: community that we're living in that impacts on school So 73 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: it's about saying what is it that our government and 74 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: our departments can do, and federal government what is it 75 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: they can do to wrap around and support our schools. Now, 76 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 3: the Northern Territory Department of Education and Training have listened 77 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 3: very closely and have taken on the feedback that Principles 78 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 3: are having an increasing load of administrative burden. So that's 79 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 3: been really proactive from the start of this year taking 80 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: on feedback and there's put in place strategies and mechanisms 81 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 3: that they're going to work with Principles to try and 82 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: reduce the administrative burden and that will go a long 83 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: way in making principles go have a deep breath and 84 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 3: then move on to what's happening with they're with the 85 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: teaching and learning that happens in their skill. 86 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: It does seem like not only principles, but right across 87 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: the board with our teachers. You know, when you look 88 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: at the level of work, a lot of you know, 89 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: like a lot of what I hear and I do 90 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: have friends that are teachers, and a lot of what 91 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: you see even as a parent is you know, gone 92 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: of the days where you go into the classroom and 93 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: you're teaching for the day, and you know then you're 94 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: doing your prep work in the afternoon or whatever for 95 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: the following day. 96 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: It's now like, you know, there is a lot of other. 97 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: Sort of you know, administrative work that needs to happen 98 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: as well, and it seems to be really constant. 99 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: It is constant, and as I said, our current Department 100 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 3: of Education Training executive staff are completely aware of this 101 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: and have acknowledged it. And it's about what can we 102 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: do to work together to move forward. And if we're 103 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: in a remote school or a very remote school, we're 104 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 3: those principles, those teaching principles are also impacted on the 105 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 3: teaching shortage. There's a nationwide shortage of teachers. So when 106 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: you're a teaching principal and you're doing your administration work, 107 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 3: but you're also teaching, and a lot of urban principles 108 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 3: are also on class because there's not enough teachers that 109 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 3: that can be employed. 110 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: So Carolyn, I do want to ask. 111 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the really concerning statistics to come 112 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: out of this survey for the Northern Territory is seventy 113 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: three point seven percent of respondents of our principles had 114 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: said that they had been on the receiving end of 115 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: physical violence. I mean, that is quite astonishing to me 116 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: when you think seventy three percent you're going to school 117 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: to you know, to well, to run the school, to 118 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: teach children, to educate kids, and your seventy three percent 119 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: are saying that they've been physically assaulted. 120 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 3: And you know, our the Northern Chatory Prints Association absolutely 121 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: agrees that the rising levels of aggression from parents astydents 122 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: is completely unacceptable and it should not become part of 123 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 3: the job for a principle or a teacher. So it's 124 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 3: about how are we going to work with our government 125 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 3: to go this is not acceptable. And I'm really pleased 126 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 3: that the number of principals who were honest in the 127 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: survey have reflected this high level because that then our 128 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: government and our department are looking at that going Okay, 129 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 3: what is it that we can do proactively to stop 130 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: that happening because it is unacceptable. 131 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, you spot on. 132 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: Now you spoke about this before in terms of the 133 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: rising levels of administration and other work that needs to 134 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: be done. But one of the things I want to 135 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: touch on is across Australia. The report says an alarming 136 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: forty five percent of school principles had triggered a red 137 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: flag email in twenty twenty four, signaling risk of self harm, 138 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: occupational health problems, or serious impact on. 139 00:08:58,400 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: Their quality of life. 140 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: Why do you think that that is happening at such 141 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: an alarming rate? 142 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 3: As I said another four, it's the complexity of a 143 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: skill and a principal's job, and I think principles are 144 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 3: just it's another layer, another layer, and another layer. And 145 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,599 Speaker 3: and it's also that they need you need from you know, 146 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: you need from downtime, you need some assistance, you need 147 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 3: wrap around support. So you know, for our association is 148 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 3: absolutely concerning. 149 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, Carolyn for. 150 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: The for the Association for the Northern Territory Principals Association. 151 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: Where to from here with this survey? I know that 152 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: sometimes surveys come out, you know. We have already had 153 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: a response from the Education Department, which I think is 154 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 1: a really good thing. 155 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: But where to from here? 156 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 3: And I think the first thing is that it's the 157 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 3: knowledging that nationwide this is a concern for all of 158 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 3: our skills and all of our educators, especially our principles. 159 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 3: And the next bit is and we've already started because 160 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 3: this data is from last year and our current department 161 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 3: and current government are working on proactives, strategies to be 162 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 3: put in place. Now there's going to be a lag 163 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 3: time and that's our concern from an association that we 164 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 3: need to be moving on this faster and not waiting 165 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 3: for another another term another term. So we've association and 166 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: the department is we're in partnership in regards to this, 167 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: and we need to be looking after our wellbeing of 168 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 3: our principles because once you do that, it then flows 169 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 3: onto the well being of our teaching staff and then 170 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 3: it goes in to our students and you were right 171 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 3: at the start that principals who feel supporters have left stress. Yes, 172 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 3: I think that was a positive in the survey this year. 173 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 2: Well, Carolyn, I really appreciate your time this morning. 174 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: INT Principals Association President Carolyn Edwards, thank you so much 175 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: for joining me on the show. 176 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: Greatly appreciated. 177 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: Thank you Katie for the opportunity to talk. 178 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks so much for your time.