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Speaker 1: Gooday.

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Speaker 2: This is doctor Justin Coilson, the author of six books

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Speaker 2: about raising happy families and the founder of Happy Families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot au. Here with Kylie my Wife, podcast

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Speaker 2: co host and mum to our six daughters. Because at

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Speaker 2: school holidays we are sharing with you podcast conversations that matter.

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Speaker 2: We think that this one is going to be really important.

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Speaker 3: Like all parents, we struggle with both the number of

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Speaker 3: devices and the amount of time our kids spend on

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Speaker 3: their screens. In this episode, we talk about the three

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Speaker 3: seeds of screen time, consumption, connection, and creation.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers me.

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Speaker 2: Now, four year olds don't need to be playing Fortnite,

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Speaker 2: and eight year olds they shouldn't be turning pro I've

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Speaker 2: got a genuine moral issue with this. I don't think

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Speaker 2: that it's in any child's best interest that they're playing

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Speaker 2: Fortnite at the age of eight.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, just lately, the children and their screens.

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Speaker 2: I know that where I'm the parenting expert, and we're supposed

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Speaker 2: to get this perfectly right all the time. But just lately.

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Speaker 2: I actually had a moment last night where I stormed

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Speaker 2: into the room and said, that's it. I've had enough,

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Speaker 2: and I took the screens, I took the iPad, I

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Speaker 2: took the fan, and I said, you're never having them again.

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Speaker 2: We're just we're done with screens for the rest of

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Speaker 2: the school term, at which point the kids started saying, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but we need them for homework. We're in them for homework,

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Speaker 2: and that kind of meant that I had to backtrack

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Speaker 2: a little bit and figure out another solution. By the way,

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Speaker 2: I should introduce this, I'm justin Colson. I'm the founder

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Speaker 2: of Happy Families dot com, dot you, and I'm a

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Speaker 2: little bit stressed about screen time here with my wife Kylie,

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Speaker 2: mum to our six daughters. Is it bothering you as

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Speaker 2: much as bothering me?

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Speaker 3: I think the challenge is number one, we have five

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Speaker 3: children still living at home and we have multiple devices.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the number of devices is out of control.

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Speaker 3: And it's really really hard at times to kind of

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Speaker 3: just keep check of it all.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that we're doing it wrong, though, Like

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Speaker 2: we've been really clear, you don't have a phone till

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Speaker 2: you can pay for it yourself. Then the iPads their

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Speaker 2: school requirements.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, wouldn't you just love it? If schools took that back.

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Speaker 2: I think I think they should. I reckon, especially with

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Speaker 2: kids in primary school. If the primary school wants my

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Speaker 2: kids to have a device, it stays at school, Stop

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Speaker 2: sending at home because it creates so much drama. And

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Speaker 2: then there's the then the kids that We've got a

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Speaker 2: couple of kids that have to have laptops for school

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Speaker 2: as well. So and then there's your computer, my computer.

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Speaker 2: We've both got our phones. Like seriously, so many phones,

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Speaker 2: so many screens, it's unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: Well, speaking about screens, I could not believe the headlines

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Speaker 3: that I've just recently read. An eight year old Fortnight.

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Speaker 2: Player, say eight or eighteen. An eight year old Fortnite.

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Speaker 3: Isn't Fortnite like M fifteen plus.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, but it's thirteen plus. It's a game that's

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Speaker 2: on phones, and you're not supposed to have it to

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Speaker 2: at least thirteen plus. It's got a lot of violent

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Speaker 2: for first person shooter sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So he was given thirty three thousand dollars and a

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Speaker 3: five thousand dollars he see for turning pro Wow, as

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Speaker 3: an eight year.

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Speaker 2: Old thirty three grand I wouldn't mind that. Gig wow.

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Speaker 2: How old was he when he started playing?

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Speaker 3: Four years old?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, I've got to say that sounds really

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Speaker 2: cool if you love Fortnite and you wish that you

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Speaker 2: were that good. But I think the parents have got

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Speaker 2: an obligation to look after their kids. And giving a

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Speaker 2: four year old a computer and saying here, play Fortnite

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Speaker 2: and getting him four years of practice so he turns

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Speaker 2: pro at Fortnite when he's eight, I'm going to.

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Speaker 3: Suggest that it was never their intention that he would

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Speaker 3: turn pro. But my understanding also when you think about

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Speaker 3: the amount of hours that goes into becoming pro at anything, yeah,

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Speaker 3: would suggest that his daily screen time would be through

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Speaker 3: the roof. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So Fortnite is a game that's not meant to be

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Speaker 2: played by people younger than teens, although we've heard stories

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Speaker 2: of Fortnite parties with eight nine year olds ongoingly. But

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Speaker 2: these age ratings are not really deterrent to kids, and

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Speaker 2: obviously this kid's parents don't mind so much. I want

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Speaker 2: to highlight some research that I came across in the

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Speaker 2: last couple of weeks. This is brand new research that's

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Speaker 2: just come out of an Australian university, out of Deacon University.

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Speaker 2: It came out in just at the start of the

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Speaker 2: month in early April, and what these researchers found was

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Speaker 2: that young children who spend large amounts of time on

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Speaker 2: mobile screens are more likely to have problems sleeping and

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Speaker 2: managing their emotions and behavior. Now, we don't know anything

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Speaker 2: about this professional fortnight eight year old and his sleep

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Speaker 2: habits or his behavior habits, but the data is telling

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Speaker 2: us a really interesting story. So I'm pretty big on

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Speaker 2: saying let's relax about screens, let's stop getting stressed out

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Speaker 2: about them. But I don't feel like that when it

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Speaker 2: comes to our little kids. And we get so many inquiries,

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Speaker 2: so many emails, podcasts at Happy families dot com, so

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Speaker 2: many emails from people who are saying, how do I

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Speaker 2: get the kids off the screens? Is screen time okay?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing with children staring at all these screens.

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Speaker 2: There's a PhD researcher who is behind this research at

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Speaker 2: Deacon Uni, Malawachi and doctor Sharon Hallwood from the School

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Speaker 2: of Psychology at Deacon and they found this and I quote,

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Speaker 2: the more time toddlers and preschoolers spend on smartphones and iPads,

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Speaker 2: the greater the risk of negative impacts on their social, emotional,

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Speaker 2: and cognitive development and sleep quality and quantity.

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Speaker 3: We talked about this last week in our episode from

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Speaker 3: the Doctor's Desk, and the research that had been found

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Speaker 3: that children who have too much screen time are less

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Speaker 3: likely to be school ready.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. We were talking about getting kids up

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Speaker 2: to scratch and they're falling behind there. So this is

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Speaker 2: a different study again, but it just adds to this

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Speaker 2: ongoing evidence. I mean, it's a really provocative topic. It's

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Speaker 2: really controversial, and as children get older, I think that

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Speaker 2: we can justifiably say the research is not as compelling.

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Speaker 2: But when we're talking about little kids, kids under the

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Speaker 2: age of five, there is so many developmental factors that

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Speaker 2: are impacted by the use of screens during early childhood

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Speaker 2: that I just don't think that we can let them

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Speaker 2: do it. I think that just looking at this research

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Speaker 2: and finding what it tells us, doctor hall Wood said,

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Speaker 2: we know that at least half of all toddlers and

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Speaker 2: preschools who use mobile screens use them on their own,

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Speaker 2: so they're not learning how to manage them. There's no

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Speaker 2: limits necessarily on how those kids are using their screens,

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Speaker 2: and the negative findings are really worrying. Given the wide

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Speaker 2: use of the so called educational laps that are available

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Speaker 2: and that are supposedly considered beneficial for young children, they're not.

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Speaker 2: There's so little research out there that would support that idea.

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Speaker 2: But until we've got better understanding of the impacts, I

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Speaker 2: think parents have got to err on the side of

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Speaker 2: caution when it comes to early childhood screen use, especially

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Speaker 2: given how much brain development is occurring with our little people.

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Speaker 2: It's a really big issue. Let's talk about my three

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Speaker 2: c's of screen use right after the break.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families.

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Speaker 4: Podcasts, Screens Creating Tension at Home, tweens, Teams and Screens

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Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.

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Speaker 4: Bye Today at Happy Families dot com, dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for a time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we

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Speaker 3: are tackling the topic of screen time.

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Speaker 2: There is increasing evidence that children under the age of five,

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Speaker 2: especially while there's so much neurological development occurring, should have

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Speaker 2: screen time minimized and brand new research out of Deacon

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Speaker 2: University really points strongly in that direction, particularly in the

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Speaker 2: context of this conversation we're having about this eight year

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Speaker 2: old Fortnite player from California who was given like thirty

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Speaker 2: grand and a five thousand dollar PC to turn pro.

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Speaker 2: He'd been playing Fortnite from the age of four, four

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Speaker 2: years of practice, and he's a professional Fortnite player.

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Speaker 3: You suggested before the break that you had three seeds.

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Speaker 3: You teased us a little bit. You said there were

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Speaker 3: three seeds that we could use for effective screen use.

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Speaker 2: Right, And this gets away from the conversation about how

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Speaker 2: much screen use and instead shifts it towards what kind

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Speaker 2: of screen use. That's a much more useful way to

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Speaker 2: look at the way the kids are on screens, because

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Speaker 2: they're part of the fabric of who we are and

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Speaker 2: what we do now. They're everywhere. So the three c's

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Speaker 2: are based on our active or passive use of technology.

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Speaker 2: Active use means that we're creating or we're connecting. The

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Speaker 2: more we create, the more we connect, the more it

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Speaker 2: seems that screens actually are quite beneficial in our lives.

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Speaker 2: They're good for us to help to stay in touch

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Speaker 2: with others. They're good for us to use our brains,

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Speaker 2: our creativity. Unfortunately, so much of what happens on screens

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Speaker 2: is closed rather than open. When you sit down with

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Speaker 2: Lego or with those magnetic toys, or with a pile

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Speaker 2: of blocks, you're open ended in scope. You can create

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Speaker 2: whatever you want. When you're playing on a screen, it's

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Speaker 2: usually really closed. There's only so many things that you

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Speaker 2: can do in so many different ways. It's a closed

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Speaker 2: environment rather than a wide open environment that the real

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Speaker 2: world gives you. And so if we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about creativity on screen, we want to make sure that

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Speaker 2: children genuinely can create. We want to make sure that

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Speaker 2: they genuinely can connect. There are active forms of screen use.

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Speaker 2: Our passive forms of screen use are basically built around consumption.

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Speaker 2: That's where you sit there and your fed stuff. You

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Speaker 2: can have information given to you, you can watch TV,

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Speaker 2: you can watch YouTube, you can listen to whatever. And

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Speaker 2: most of the consumption that happens on screens is passive

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Speaker 2: and unhealthy for our children. So those are the ways

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Speaker 2: that screens are used, and we just look at it

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Speaker 2: as consumption, connection, and creation. They're the three c's, and

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Speaker 2: they're a much better way of measuring or identifying whether

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Speaker 2: screens are being used in healthy or unhealthy ways, especially

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Speaker 2: important for our little ones.

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Speaker 3: So when we talk about screen time, we often talk

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Speaker 3: about mobile devices and being on the computer, But what

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Speaker 3: about TV? Where does that fit into the picture?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, amazingly. I just read a study the other day

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Speaker 2: that highlighted that watching good quality educational children's programming like

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Speaker 2: Bluie for example, a preschool play school sorry, is going

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Speaker 2: to be much better for our children in terms of

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Speaker 2: the way that they're consuming media than holding their handheld

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Speaker 2: devices and gaming or whizzing through some garbage that's on

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Speaker 2: the internet. High quality children's programming is going to be

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Speaker 2: better for them. So I would say stick them in

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Speaker 2: front of the ABC on television before you go and

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Speaker 2: give them a screen. It's going to be better for them.

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Speaker 3: So the take home message today is.

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Speaker 2: Consumption passive screen use bad for kids regardless of their age,

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Speaker 2: but particularly for our children under five and also four

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Speaker 2: year olds don't need to be playing Fortnite and eight

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Speaker 2: year olds honestly, they shouldn't be turning pro I've got

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Speaker 2: a genuine moral issue with this. I don't think that

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Speaker 2: it's in any child's best interest that they're playing Fortnite

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Speaker 2: as a professional at the age of eight. The content,

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Speaker 2: the stuff that's happening on Fortnite, the language it's being

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Speaker 2: used by the other players, all that sort of stuff

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Speaker 2: and more tells me that no eight year old should

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Speaker 2: be doing this. I think that it's really concerning. So

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Speaker 2: minimize consumption, minimize gaming, and focus on creation and connection.

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Speaker 2: If screens are going to be used, or watch high

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Speaker 2: quality children's program on the Telly, keep the screens, the devices,

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Speaker 2: the laptop of the iPads, the tablets, whatever, out of

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Speaker 2: kid's hands.

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Speaker 3: Well that's a great reminder. Let's wrap this.

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Speaker 2: Up, okay. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 2: Ruland from Bridge Media and our executive producer is Craig Bruce.

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Speaker 2: We've got an upcoming summit that you might like to

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Speaker 2: know about little people, big feelings. All the details at

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Speaker 2: our Facebook page Doctor Justin Coulson's Happy Families, And if

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Speaker 2: you'd like more info about making your family happy, such

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Speaker 2: as with our ongoing monthly memberships, you can get all

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Speaker 2: the details at Happy Families dot com dot a YUK