1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 2: This is the Daily ohs. 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 3: Oh, now it makes sense. 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Oz. It's Monday, 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: the eighteenth of March. 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 3: I'm Sam, I'm Billy. 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: When the Daily OS asked you, our audience, what is 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: the most important. 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: Issue you care about when. 10 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: It comes to politics, overwhelmingly you gave us one answer. 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: Climate change. It is widely seen as the biggest threat 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: facing the whole world. So what is the Australian government 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: doing about it? Well? 14 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 4: I sat down with the Climate Change Minister Chris Bowen 15 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 4: to ask him. But before we get there, Sam, what 16 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 4: is making headlines today? 17 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: A new working group made up of Australia's largest telcos 18 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: has been formed by the federal government to resolve concerns 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: over seven hundred and forty thousand Australians who may not 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: be able to dial triple zero when the national three 21 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: Gene network is shut down later this year. The issue 22 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: relates to certain four g handsets that were bought overseas 23 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: but rely on the three Gen network for emergency calls. 24 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: There's a number of potential remedies floated by the government, 25 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: including a public information campaign and contacting affected customers. 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 4: Assault cases presented to Australia's courts rose by sixteen percent 27 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 4: in the twenty twenty two to twenty three financial year, 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 4: according to the latest data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. 29 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 4: It also found that over ninety percent of those who 30 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 4: went to court for assault were ruled guilty across all 31 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 4: kinds of charges. More than five hundred and thirty thousand 32 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 4: people had a criminal court case during this period. The 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 4: ABS says the increase could be attributed to a backlog 34 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 4: of cases from the pandemic. 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: The US State Department will use a charter flight to 36 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: help its citizens stuck in Haiti amidst ongoing gang violence 37 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: and protests. There is currently no clear leader in the 38 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: country after the resignation of Prime Minister Ariel Henry last week, 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: with police now clashing with militias run by notorious gang 40 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: leader Jimmy Barbecue Cherizia in the nation's capital of Port Prince, 41 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: The country's main port, has now been shut for ten 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: days because of the violence, leading to widespread food shortages. 43 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 4: And today's good news, scientists from the University of Sydney 44 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 4: have successfully kept two human livers alive in a love 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 4: for a week. In a landmark trial, the livers were 46 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 4: not in a human body, but in an organ preservation machine, 47 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 4: which is designed to replicate the human body. The study's 48 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 4: success paves the way for potential liver surgeries and gene therapies. 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: In the future. 50 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: All right, Billy, we're about to hear your interview with 51 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: the Climate change minister. Why did you want to chat 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: to him? 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 4: Well, like you said, it is the number one issue 54 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 4: that our audience tells us they care about, and this 55 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 4: is He's the man that Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi has 56 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 4: put in charge to deal with how Australia will respond 57 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 4: to climate change. And I knew I wanted to interview him, 58 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 4: and I put at a request to our newsletter subscribers 59 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 4: to say, if I did do this interview, what would 60 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 4: you want me to ask him? And they came back 61 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 4: with so many responses that were really important questions and 62 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 4: I knew I just had to put them to him 63 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 4: and see how he would respond. 64 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: And are there any key facts or bits of context 65 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: that we should know before we dive into this interview? 66 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 4: Maybe just one. You'll hear us talking about the need 67 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 4: to limit global warming to one point five degrees above 68 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 4: pre industrial levels, and that is us referring to this 69 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 4: target that is set out in the Paris Agreement, which 70 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 4: Australia is a signatory too, so we are legally obliged 71 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 4: to do our role in reaching that target. 72 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: All right, with that context, let's dive into the chat. 73 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: Chrisphan, thank you so much for joining the Daily OS. 74 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: Great pleasure. Billy. 75 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: Now you are a climate change minister, which is massive role. 76 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 4: Can we start the conversation by you explaining what exactly 77 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 4: do you do? 78 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: So? I'm the Cabinet minister responsible for climate change and energy, 79 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: so I've got my hands on the energy levers and 80 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: the climate change leavers. So I think the most important 81 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: job I've ever done, most important job we'll ever do. 82 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: It's the biggest crisis facing the planet, the biggest economic 83 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: change our country's ever undertaken. And it's my job to 84 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: help the government through that and help the country through it. 85 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 4: Now, I want to go through a few starts. Twenty 86 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 4: twenty three was the hottest year on record in the world. 87 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 4: January was also the world's hottest January on record. Is 88 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 4: the Australian government doing enough to address this? 89 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: Right now? 90 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 2: And there's plenty of other figures we could use it. 91 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 2: Month after month, hottest records falling tumbling right around the world, 92 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 2: including here. And what we're on is a race. This 93 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: is a race, and we're starting very late. We're starting 94 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: really in twenty twenty two. 95 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: But just focusing on since you've been in powered. 96 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: Since we've been in power, we've increased our target to 97 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: forty three percent our mission's reduction target, introduced an eighty 98 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 2: two percent renewable energy target, up from around thirty percent 99 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: when we came to office. So think about that thirty 100 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 2: percent when we came to office in twenty twenty two 101 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: to eighty two percent by twenty thirty. That's a huge lift, 102 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: a huge jump. We'll do it. That's a massive task, 103 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: a massive job. It doesn't happen easily. You know. It's 104 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: March now, twenty twenty four. That means we've got sixty 105 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: nine months to January twenty thirty. That's really quick to 106 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: get big things done. And there's some people who say 107 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: we're doing too much. The Coalition says we're doing too much. 108 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: That's all nonsense. We don't have time. We've got to 109 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 2: get cracking. We have been getting cracking. We've got a 110 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: huge task ahead of us. We'll do it, but sixty 111 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: nine months is not long to get the job done. 112 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 4: You mentioned the forty three percent, So Australia has a 113 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 4: goal of cutting emissions by forty three percent by twenty thirty, 114 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 4: which we are slightly behind on. But even if we 115 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 4: do meet that, that won't be enough to limit global 116 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: warming to one point five degrees above pre industrial levels. 117 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,119 Speaker 3: Why not do more? 118 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: Well, we are pretty much on track for forty three. 119 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 2: The forecast I released last year shows getting forty two, 120 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: so a bit more to do, but you know, compared 121 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: to where we were when we came in massive lift 122 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: in activity. So people say we should have higher targets. 123 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: I respect that, I understand that, But show me what 124 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: you would do differently. Show me how you'd get to 125 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 2: higher than eighty two percent renewable. Show me how you'd 126 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 2: reduce emissions from industry by more than four point nine 127 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: percent five percent a year. You could say, do more? 128 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 2: What would you do more than what we are doing 129 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: in terms of reducing our emissions because we are going really. 130 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 4: Fast, but we won't meet the one point five degree 131 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 4: limit on global warming. 132 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: So I'm not giving up on that. By the way, 133 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: that's a global target, so every country, including US, has 134 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: to play our role. 135 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,119 Speaker 3: But even if we meet the current target, we won't 136 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 3: meet that. 137 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not giving up on one point five. 138 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 4: Since you've been Climate Change Minister, the Labor government has 139 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 4: approved four new coal mines or expansions. 140 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: Why well, most of those are metallurgical, which is needed 141 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: for steel, and we need a lot more steel for 142 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: this transition. We need to build the trans mission towers 143 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: and everything that goes into the renewal energy supply chain 144 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: needs and so the world's going to need that metallurgical 145 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 2: coal to builded still we need and again, we're getting 146 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: to eighty two percent renewable, and we're helping other countries 147 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: get to renewable targets, a lot of them very similar 148 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: to ours. But we're not there yet. And so while 149 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: we're managing this massive uplift in renewable energy, we're proving 150 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 2: renewable energy every day. I'm working with states to get 151 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: more renewable energy into the system, both for our own 152 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: needs and eventually for export, either through cables or through 153 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: green hydrogen. Massive tasks. We're only just beginning. 154 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 4: There are examples of young people around the world suing 155 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 4: governments for approving coal mines because they believe it neglects 156 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: their right to a healthy environment. Do you believe that 157 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 4: government should have a legal obligation to protect young people 158 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 4: from the effects of climate change. 159 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: I think whether we have a legal obligation or not, 160 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: we have a moral obligation to do everything we can 161 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: and we are. 162 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 3: But laws are important. Obviously it would make it a 163 00:07:58,960 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: legal obligation. 164 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: But I mean, we see our obligations to future generations, 165 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: to the rest of the world as our core responsibility. 166 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: And as I said, it's not just a moral obligation 167 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: in relation to climate change, it's an obligation to create 168 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: the jobs of the future for young people as well. 169 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: We shall be very much focused on green energy if you. 170 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 4: Do see it as so important. Independent Senator David Pocock 171 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 4: has a Duty of Care bill that would require governments 172 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 4: to consider the impact of climate harm on young people. 173 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 4: Why do you not support making it a legal obligation? 174 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 2: As I said, we have our approach which is different. 175 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: I've got a lot of respect for David and I 176 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: work closely with him on many many things. We have 177 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 2: a different approach, which is to get on with the job. 178 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: We are getting on with the job of creating the 179 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,239 Speaker 2: energy of the future, which is going to be renewable, 180 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: which will mean less coal, will mean less gas. We're 181 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: just getting on with it. I think that we have 182 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: to remain focused on the task we have it, and 183 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 2: David can promote that agenda. I respect him. We've got 184 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: our own agenda we're promoting. 185 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 4: But typically when the government is approving a new coal mine, 186 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 4: is it considering the impact it will have on future generations? 187 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: Well, of course, in everything we do, we consider the 188 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: impact on future generations, but we also consider the needs 189 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 2: of today. If you've got steel that's needed, whether it's 190 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: for buildings or for renewable energy, or for whatever purpose, 191 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: and it needs metallogical coal, it's needed, whether that steel 192 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: is made in Australia or offshore, at the moment it's needed. 193 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 2: Are we working on green steel so we don't need 194 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: that metallurgical coal in the future. Yes, work on renewable 195 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 2: energy so we need less thermal coal. Absolutely. We're doing 196 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: all those things and having all the other fights as well. 197 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 2: At the same time. 198 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: Let's talk about electric vehicles. 199 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 4: I'm sure a lot of young people listening to this 200 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 4: would love to buy an electric vehicle, but it is 201 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 4: simply too expensive. 202 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: What are you doing to address your affordability in. 203 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: Your one hundred percent right? The big thing we're doing 204 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: at the moment is the new vehicle efficiency standards, which 205 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: would require car companies to send us better and more 206 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: efficient cars, and that will include electric vehicles as well 207 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: as more efficient versions of the petrol and diesel vehicles 208 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: that are currently made. And when it comes to electric vehicles, 209 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: a lot of people say they are expensive, and of 210 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: course there's truth in that, but that is partly a 211 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 2: result of policy, because we don't require companies to send 212 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: us the affordable models. By putting vehicle efficiency standards on, 213 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 2: we'll force them to send us a more efficient fleet 214 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 2: and that will inever include more affordable models as well. 215 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: So that's the first thing. The second thing is just 216 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 2: by increasing the number of evs generally, like we're converting 217 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: the Commonwealth car fleet to electric. We've got electric vehicle 218 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 2: discount which is driving up electric vehicle sales. But the 219 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: thing is about fleets is they turn over after two 220 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: or three years, they sell the cast. That means in 221 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: two or three years we have an EV second hand 222 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: market and to be honest with you, I think most 223 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 2: young people are going to be looking at second hand cars. 224 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 4: So what's the timeline we're working with here? When do 225 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 4: you think the average young person in Australia will be 226 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 4: able to consider buying an electric vehicle? 227 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: Well, our standards will come into force on one January 228 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: next year, twenty twenty five. But we've been converting the 229 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,719 Speaker 2: Commonwealth fleet to electric since we came to office, and 230 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: I reckon that means in about two years time from now, 231 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: you're really going to start to see the second hand 232 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: market really have more electric vehicles available. 233 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 3: So in two years time, how much do you think 234 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 3: it would be? 235 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: Well, I depend on what sort of car you're after, 236 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: but you know there's models available in the United Kingdom, 237 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 2: you know, that are much more affordable than ours. 238 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 3: I want to figure into here is how much will 239 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: it be. 240 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: I'm not going to make a promise. I'm not going 241 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 2: to keep this. The cars are so different, right, Every 242 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: electric vehicle is so different, right, But there'll be more 243 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: models available. 244 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: Let's move to nuclear energy. 245 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 4: I want to discuss it because it is one of 246 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 4: the most contested policy spaces in. 247 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: The country right now. 248 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 4: But can we start the conversation by you explaining to 249 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 4: the audience as simply as possible, what is nuclear energy? 250 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: Well, I'll try It's been around since just after World 251 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: War Two. We all know how nuclear power came around 252 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: through the world the circumstances at the end of World 253 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: War Two, but then through the fifties and sixties they 254 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: took that and turned it into nuclear power plants. So 255 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: it's the same principle that goes in the atomic bomb 256 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: goes into making power, but for a much more acceptable reason, 257 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 2: obviously making electricity. The thing about it is, though, because 258 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: it is a complicated process, you know atomic power splitting 259 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: the autumn. It is expensive. It's very, very expensive, and 260 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: that's why we don't support it. It's also very slow 261 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: to build. 262 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 4: One of the reasons that the coalition wants it is 263 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 4: to alleviate disruptions to energy supply in the transition. So 264 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 4: could nuclear energy fill that gap? 265 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: No, No, because it's not flexible. What you really need 266 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: when you're going to a renewable system is you need storage, 267 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: you need transmission, and you need flexibility. You need something 268 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: to back up if you've run out. That's where gas 269 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: can play a role, because, as I said, you can 270 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: turn gas on and off at two minutes notice in 271 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: a gas fire POWERstation these days, a good one, a 272 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 2: modern one. You can't do that with nuclear. And as 273 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: I said, it would be it's even if say a 274 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: government decided, yep, we're going to go nuclear, we're talking 275 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: twenty forties. Realistically, before anything was supplying energy in Australia. 276 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: Then you're basically almost at twenty fifty, which is when 277 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 2: we meant to be net zero by see. 278 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 4: But the Coalition says that nuclear energy could be used 279 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 4: to achieve net zero. 280 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: They're wrong. They're wrong because you're not going to get 281 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: it up and running until the twenty forties. It is 282 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 2: a terrible policy for Australia. That's before we've even got 283 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 2: to safety waste. The morality of it. You don't get 284 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: that conversation in my view, because the economic stone stacker, 285 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 2: and because it takes so long to build and delays 286 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: net zero by many, many, many years. 287 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 3: I want to end on this. 288 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 4: You've been the Climate Change Minute staff for nearly two 289 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 4: years now. You know more about the future of the 290 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 4: climate in Australia than most people do. You ever suffer 291 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 4: from climate anxiety? 292 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: The honest answability is I am much more optimistic than 293 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 2: that because I know the ramifications of us not doing it, 294 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: of us not getting it right. Therefore, I know we 295 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: will because the ramifications are too big, and I see 296 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: a lot of innovation. I see a lot of people, 297 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: a lot of smart scientists working on really important projects. 298 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 4: To generate Scientists aren't in government like scientists are saying 299 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 4: that we do need a lot of action, but they're 300 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 4: not the ones making the policy. 301 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: We're harnessing that innovation, but. 302 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 4: They often don't listen to the extent that scientists say 303 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 4: we need action. 304 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: So what I'm saying, though, is that the scientists are 305 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: working on really innovative ways of dealing with this, not 306 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: whether we should do it. Everybody knows we have to. 307 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: Almost everyone knows we have to do this unless you're 308 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: climate change DENI. And there's still some of those in 309 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: the community, but not as many as there were ten 310 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: years ago, and there's too many of them in Parliament too. 311 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that they are working on 312 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 2: really innovative, exciting technologies. We know what's at stake, and 313 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: hence that's why so much is being done. 314 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 4: So you have this trust that ultimately scientists and governments 315 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 4: will do the right thing. We have a US election 316 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 4: coming up and Donald Trump very potentially could become the president, 317 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 4: and he's been very clear on his climate change stance. 318 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: Does that concern you because governments change. 319 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, governments do change. And you know there's a number 320 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: of governments like a point too, where's elections coming up. 321 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: There's a lot of state for climate. Now I'm not 322 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 2: allowed to comment on the politics of other countries as 323 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: a cabinet member in Australia, regardless of what happens there, 324 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what doesn't change is the science and 325 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: the need to act. 326 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 4: Sorry, the need to act doesn't change the willingness to 327 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 4: do so by governments does. 328 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: It might for say the United States, but it won't 329 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: for the country. Is what I'm saying. We've got all 330 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 2: these states who are doing good things. I'm not saying 331 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: I'm not saying there's no problems here, by the way, 332 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that these things don't count, because 333 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: they do, clearly. But I'm also taking an optimistic view 334 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: that what's at stake is so big that there would 335 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: be people still getting on with the job in the 336 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: private sector. Industry now gets it. The industry didn't get 337 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: it fifteen years ago. Business didn't get it fifteen years ago. 338 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 2: By now now they do. They know too because consumers, 339 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 2: young people are demanding it. Consumers are demining investors are 340 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: demanding it. 341 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 4: So what would you say to the young people in 342 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 4: particular who have a lot of climate anxiety. 343 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: I understand it, and I understand why why people are 344 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: maybe concerned about the future. I completely get it. What 345 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: I'm saying is I tend to take a more optimistic view. 346 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 3: It's optimistic, but is it realistic? 347 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: I think so. I think so because it has to 348 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 2: be otherwise, what are we going to do? You know, 349 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 2: we cannot. A big challenge brings out the best in people. 350 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: That's why I say I'm not giving up on one 351 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: and a half degrees a woman, I'm not giving up 352 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: on one point five. I'm not saying we're definitely getting there, 353 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: by the way, That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing 354 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 2: with the right policies and the right actions, I wouldn't 355 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: give up on it. 356 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 3: Chris Bahn, thank you so much for joining The Daily Ours. 357 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: Be my pleasure. 358 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: That's all we've got time for. On today's edition of 359 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: The Daily Ours. We'll be back again in your Ears tomorrow. 360 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed that episode, leave us a review on Spotify, 361 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: give us a rating on Apple. It really means the 362 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: world to us as independent publishers. We'll be back again 363 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: in your ears tomorrow. Seen. 364 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 4: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 365 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 4: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily os acknowledges 366 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 4: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 367 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 4: Gadigol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 368 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 4: Strait island and nations. 369 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 370 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: both past and present.