1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: How I work is having a little break over the 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: festive season, so I've picked a handful of my absolute 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: favorite episodes from the last eighteen months to play for 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: you in this best of series. I hope you enjoy, 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: and I'll be back with new episodes twice weekly from 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: January twenty eight. When I say workplace culture, one company 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: that probably comes to mind for almost everyone is Google. 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Whether it's the sprawling open plan officers that were all 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: the rage for tech companies in the twenty tens, the 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: free gourmet meals for staff, or their relentless pursuit of innovation. 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: Google's been on a mission to acquire and retain the 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: world's top talent for a very long time now. So 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: when Mel's Silver, who's Google's managing director in Australia and 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: New Zealand, tells you how to improve your company's culture, 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: you'd know that she's probably onto something. Mel's been with 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Google for sixteen years now, and she's worked with countless 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: incredible mentors and mentees along the way. So what are 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: the most important lessons Mel has learned from her time 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: at Google? How does she use her leadership expertise not 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: only in her work life but also in her family 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: life and how does she structure what she calls her 22 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: thinking days. My name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist and the founder of Behavioral Science Consultancy Inventium, 24 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: and this is how I work a show about how 25 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: to help you do your best work? Now something that 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: you do our thinking days, which I find very interesting. 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: Can you tell me what is the thinking day? 28 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: So a thinking day is one day every six weeks, 29 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: very much enabled by the wonderful powers of my executive assistant, 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: where I just take myself out of the game, get 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: off the dam flow, get onto the balcony, whatever the 32 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: sort of leadership be term you want to use, and 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: I carve it up into three sections so that I 34 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: can get into serious flow. Like the origin story of 35 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: the thinking day for me was I went to this 36 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: course and it was probably about a year less than 37 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: a year into taking the job back in Australia, and 38 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: I just realized I was like a slave to my diary, 39 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: like people were putting stuff in, people were telling me 40 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 2: what I should be thinking about. And I knew that 41 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: there was so much I wanted to think about, but 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: I just couldn't find the time. And I went to 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: this course that was all about sustaining high performance for 44 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: females within Google, and we got a kind of deep 45 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: dive into this concept of flow, like getting yourself, putting 46 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,679 Speaker 2: the phone down, turning it around, giving yourself no distractions, 47 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: and giving yourself time to think about it. And I 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: just thought, if I don't create some sort of intervention here, 49 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: it's never going to happen. I'm never going to get 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 2: an hour and a half free just by chance. And 51 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: so I first started out by carving out time in 52 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: the morning two days a week, and it just wasn't 53 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: working for me. 54 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: Why Why is that? 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: I'm a working mom and like by the time I 56 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: get to the office some days, like I've run a marathon, 57 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: you know, like I've dropped two kids off at school, 58 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 2: I've forgotten to order lunch orders, I've got phone call, 59 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: you know. So it's just you're not in good flow state. 60 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: And so I sat down with my assistant and I said, 61 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: how do you think we can make this work? And 62 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: she said, We're just going to give you a date 63 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 2: every six weeks. And so it's just there, it's a block, 64 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: it's unbookable. But the key to it is the prep, 65 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: right The key to it is getting the three topics 66 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: that I want to think deeply about, at least a 67 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: straw man of those, and some questions, because if I 68 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: need data or inputs, I want it beforehand. And usually 69 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 2: the output of them is an incredible mind map about 70 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: thirty five new questions to go and talk to different 71 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: people about, or in the really great cases, scoping doc 72 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: of some stuff that we need to do and some 73 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: deliverables that we should probably be putting out into the world. 74 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: So I just I don't know what I do without 75 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: them now, to be honest, they are a game changer 76 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: for me. 77 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: What's an example of a challenge that you bring to 78 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: a thinking day? 79 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: So really good topical one most recently was, you know, 80 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: I think the world is going through, especially working people, 81 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: a huge shift right now. Google's always had this wonderful culture, 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: and it's known for great food and great officers, and 83 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: you know, there's a whole bunch of people who've been 84 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: through three and a half years of you know, just 85 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: NonStop kind of stress and resilience, and you know, there's 86 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 2: macro uncertainty out there, and I just kind of think, 87 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: I thought to myself, do we have programs right now 88 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: that are fit for purpose in terms of what kind 89 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: of culture and capability that we are trying to build 90 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: in our organization. Is it still fit for purpose? Do 91 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: we need a bit of a course correction? And I 92 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: knew we had a leadership off site coming out up, 93 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: and so I just wanted us to be really intentional 94 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: about the questions that we were going to ask of 95 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: each other and the sort of strategic imperatives that we 96 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: wanted to deliver on. So I ended up creating a 97 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 2: bit of a table which was like, what was it 98 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: like before, what is it like now, how do we 99 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: think Googlers feel about it? And what's the strategic imperative 100 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: that comes off the back of that, And it just 101 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 2: ended up being a wonderful discussion guide for our off site. 102 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: So things like that, which again you never really carve 103 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: out time to think about if you just go through 104 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 2: the motions of rocking up to the meetings that people 105 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: want to have. 106 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: So how then do you prepare for your thinking days? 107 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: What does that process look like? 108 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's generally three really high level questions and they 109 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: will come up over the course of six week. So 110 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 2: there's usually like a page at the back of the 111 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: notebook where it's like thinking day kind of ideas, and 112 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: then the week before I'll distill it down and kind 113 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: of think about the stuff that I really want to 114 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: focus on, choose the three and then do the kind 115 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 2: of gathering that I need for that. Sometimes on a 116 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 2: thinking day as well, I'll carve out some of that 117 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: time to have a session with my coach. And that's 118 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: also great because I come out of those really energized. 119 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: It's great prep for a mind map. 120 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: Now. I know when we spoke before this interview, you 121 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: were talking about how Bad, which is Google's version of 122 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,559 Speaker 1: chat GPT, was also quite helpful in helping you prep 123 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: for these days. I want to take a step back 124 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: first because and I guess for those that haven't tried Bad, 125 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: and I think it's still in beta mode. Is that right? 126 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: Join in Australia on a waiting list and you can 127 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: get access now. Yeah. 128 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: Now, I've had a few people from Go on the 129 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: show over the years, and one of my favorites was 130 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: Laura may Martin. 131 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: She's great. Yeah. 132 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: So she's Google's executive productivity advisor and helped top execs 133 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: be more productive and I've gotten some great tips from 134 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: her about Google Calendar and Gmail. I know that you 135 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: think quite deeply along with your executive assistant around how 136 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: you use Google Calendar. Can you tell me how you 137 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: think about g cal and I guess you also think 138 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: about it quite strategically in terms of looking back over it. Yeah, 139 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: so I think the way I work with my assistant 140 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: is so important. Here she color codes my diary, which 141 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: serves a whole bunch of purposes, some very strategic and 142 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: some very practical, like being able to look at your 143 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: calendar in the morning and know if you have something 144 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: external will actually impact. 145 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: What you wear that day. So that's just a quick 146 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: glance in the morning, is there any blue right need 147 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: the good sneakers today? But what it also enables is 148 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: this kind of tagging of the event, so that at 149 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: the end of a quarter we can go back and say, right, 150 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: She says to me, mel this is where you spent 151 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: your time this quarter, and is that right? Does that 152 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: feel right in terms of your priorities? And so for me, 153 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: it's things like external relationships, one on ones with team members, 154 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: what kind of topics we're talking about, And so it's 155 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: just a really good gauge of whether things are going 156 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: to plan or not. But what sits behind that is 157 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: this being intentional about your time, right. And I've said 158 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: this so many times I feel like a bit of 159 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: a broken record, but I don't want to be the 160 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: busiest person. I don't want to have the busiest calendar 161 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: that's the most packed. What I want to be is 162 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: the most impactful person. And if you don't measure these things, 163 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: then you can't manage them. And so the color coding 164 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: for us is just a great tool. And even with 165 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 2: things like this is for the kids, I need to go, 166 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 2: I need to be there this particular thing, so I 167 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: know where that is, and she knows where that is, 168 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: and she knows that it's a not bookable over type thing. 169 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: So it's just a really good I don't know, it 170 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: just speeds things up. 171 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: I guess, what are the different colors that you like? 172 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: The different categories of work that have their own color. 173 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's internal events, there's like ads, business type stuff, 174 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 2: there's broader cross functional all of Google type stuff. Internal 175 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 2: external so whether it's with a partner or not. There's kids, 176 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: I mean, there's I think there's about nine or ten 177 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: different colors that going on. We've used all the colors 178 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 2: I know we've maxed out colors, and then there's actually 179 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 2: one for like do not schedule, which is thinking time 180 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: right or work time that she knows that I've got to, 181 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: you know, I need to spend some time doing something, 182 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: preparing for a meeting or whatever it might be. 183 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: How do you decide what percentage of time is the 184 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: right amount to be dedicating to those different broadcas agrees 185 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: of work. 186 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's less about this needs to be fifty 187 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 2: percent of my time and more about hang on, it 188 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: should definitely be more than ten, you know, Like it's 189 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: more about tweaking as opposed to sort of setting guidelines 190 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: and making sure we stick to them. But it's just 191 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: more of a lead indicator of our things on track 192 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 2: or not, as opposed to a quota, you know what 193 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: I mean. 194 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: I know. Something else that you do is you've only 195 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: got one calendar as opposed to several, which I found 196 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: interesting because in my own life, I've got three calendars. 197 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: I've got my work calendar, I've got my personal calendar, 198 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: which is also my daughter's commitments as well, and then 199 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: I've got to shared calendar with my partner and it 200 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: can be a bit messy. So tell me about only 201 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: having one calendar. 202 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: Well, I only have one life, and you know, it's 203 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: just about shortcuts really for me. I mean I do 204 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: think that philosophically, I bring my whole self to work, 205 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 2: and you know, at home, everyone needs to understand that 206 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: mum's mum works, that my partner understands that I work. 207 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: But having one view of everything is just convenient to me, 208 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 2: Like I will double book on myself if I have 209 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: one calendar here and one calendar there. So I think 210 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: the beauty of it is if someone does send me 211 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: an invite to a personal Gmail thing, I can actually 212 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: see it in that one space. But for me, it's 213 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: just a speed of what's going on. You know, birthday 214 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 2: parties are in their swimming lessons, are in their netballs 215 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: in there. You know, it's just this is my whole being. 216 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: Now, I want to talk about advice because you've been 217 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: at Google for sixteen years. 218 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 2: I was five when I started. 219 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: I've been running Inventor for sixteen years, and I too 220 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: was five when I started that business. Yeah, I want 221 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: to know what's the best advice you've received from fellow 222 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: Googlers over that period of time. 223 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you know, radical candor is something that I 224 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: am a big fan of and the best and. 225 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: For those that haven't heard of the term radical candor, 226 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: it has, I guess become popularized over the years. Can 227 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: you define what it is? 228 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: So it's just being brutally honest with people and being 229 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 2: really direct. I has actually written a book written by 230 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: a Googler, Kim Scott. I think her name was a Is. 231 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: She's still with us, but you know she's got this 232 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: really incredible model of you know, are you just working 233 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: in ruinous empathy? Are you trying to be too nice? 234 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: And you know, all these different models and I think 235 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 2: this concept of being really direct with someone. The example 236 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: she gives is, you know, I was sitting in a 237 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 2: meeting and my boss after the meeting said to me, 238 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 2: you know, when you say too much, it makes you 239 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: sound really dumb, which like what a sting, right, But 240 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 2: I just think I am the sort of person who 241 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: responds best to hearing it right before, right between the eyeballs, 242 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: you know. And I had a great boss and he 243 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 2: said to me, you know, you've got this incredible fire 244 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: in the belly. You're really commercial. People follow you, but 245 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 2: you've really got to watch your p's and Q's like, 246 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: you've got to know when that is the right time. 247 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: You really have to develop that skill. And it was 248 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: just such a powerful piece of feedback to me because 249 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 2: I think I had, you know, I'd grown up in 250 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: a time where I was I'd grown up in banking, 251 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: I'd grown up in environments where that kind of hate 252 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: to say it, but it's like boys, locker room type 253 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: language and stuff was just the norm, and you almost 254 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: felt like you had to be that way. I think 255 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 2: I was that way anyway, so don't get me wrong, 256 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: but you there was this kind of acceptance of that, 257 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: and he just said to me, you know, you will 258 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: have much more cut through when you know when and 259 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 2: how to play those levers. And it just enabled me 260 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: to go away and think about it and put it 261 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: into practice without losing who I was as a person, 262 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: still being really direct and still being really you know, 263 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 2: I bring levity to situations. That's one of my superpowers. 264 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean being serious and losing my personality. It 265 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: means just knowing when to play the card right. 266 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: I can imagine hearing feedback like that could feel like 267 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: it's an attack on you and your personality. How do 268 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: you work through applying the feedback as opposed to I 269 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: don't know, getting really defensive and going no, no, that's 270 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: a part of me. You're asking me to fundamentally change. 271 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: So do you know why I think I remember that 272 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: particular piece of feedback so well is because he coupled 273 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 2: it with my strength, and he said, you have this 274 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: fire in your belly. I love it. You have this 275 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: commercial acumen. I love it. People will follow you. Don't 276 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: stuff it up like it's and so it kind of 277 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: appreciated who I was, and it like it really affirmed 278 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: all of the good things about my personality. And the 279 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: same time as him coming across, as I'm giving you 280 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: this as a gift, Right, it's always going to sting 281 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 2: to hear feedback that, even if it's just constructive stuff 282 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: about the way you run a meeting, or if it's 283 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: got nothing to do with your personality, good feedback I 284 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: think has to sting. Otherwise it's not going to be 285 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: heard or felt right Otherwise, I think you're in ruinos 286 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: empathy mode. But you know, I think over the years, 287 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: you realize that you're only getting that feedback because someone 288 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: really cares about your development. Right, if you go through 289 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: a relationship with a boss or with an employee, and 290 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: all you ever say to them is you're great, don't 291 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: worry about it. That there's a version of that that's like, well, 292 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: I don't really care, you know, keep doing what you're doing. 293 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 2: You lean in when you really care about someone. 294 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: Now you have a coach, and I think it's really 295 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: hard finding a good I mean it's hard finding those 296 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: good kind of like support people in your life, whether 297 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: it's a therapist, a psychologist, a coach. How did you 298 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: find your coach? 299 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 2: Well, Google actually put me in touch with my coach, 300 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 2: and it started out as quite a specific purpose. So 301 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: I had just taken on a new role, like an 302 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 2: expanded role, and the leadership team, the leadership development team, 303 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: came and said, hey, you know you're about to do 304 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: this thing. Would you like to have a coach for 305 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: a couple of sessions just to kind of bang some 306 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: stuff out? And I was like, yeah, sure, great, and 307 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: we just hit it off. And so I think at 308 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 2: the end of every ten sessions, I would go begging 309 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 2: and pleading to please, can I keep the coach? And 310 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: they'd be like yeah, yeah, yeah, And then you know, 311 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: I think it's only ten years now, that I've had 312 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: the same coach and he's incredible. 313 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me what are some of the most important 314 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: things that he's taught you and helped you with? 315 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: Ah, well, jeez, again, this is a whole other podcast. 316 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 2: The most impactful one, like the one that has changed 317 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: me the most, is coming to groups with that in 318 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 2: a critic. Right, So I have a tendency to be 319 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: quite catastrophic, and I have a tendency to make it 320 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: all my fault in my mind, and he has just 321 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: been so instrumental in helping me come to terms with that, 322 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: but not not by ignoring it, by accepting that that's 323 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: a huge part of who I am, being proud of 324 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 2: why that is there, and then just being great at 325 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: consciously pushing it to the back. So I'll give you 326 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 2: an example. You know, something goes wrong, my brain goes, 327 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: this is all your fault, Like, how did you get 328 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: the white? Did you found? I'm now able to go 329 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 2: this is what you do all the time. The reason 330 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: why you do that is because you've got really high 331 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 2: standards and you don't ever want to be the person 332 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: who has let the team down. But here the voice 333 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 2: know that it's probably going to be ten times more 334 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: than the reality of the situation. Put it back, turn 335 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: the volume down on that voice. Go. So he gave 336 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: me like a bus visual, Like you're driving the bus 337 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 2: and there's someone who's like screaming in your ear, just 338 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 2: send them to the back of the bus. That has 339 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: completely changed me, completely changed who I am and the 340 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: way I think about myself and the way I judge myself. 341 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 2: Made me so much more confident in myself because I'm 342 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: actually proud now that I have that little voice. I'm 343 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: proud that it keeps me grounded, like it keeps me hungry, 344 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 2: and it pushes me, but it can also bring me 345 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: all the way down. If I don't watch. 346 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: It, we will be back with Melson talking about how 347 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: she approaches people development in a really simple but really 348 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: impactful way. If you're looking for more tips to improve 349 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: the way you work can live. I write a short 350 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped 351 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: me personally. You can sign up for that at Amantha 352 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: dot com. That's Amantha dot com. Now I know that 353 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: you're really passionate about people development and you have office hours, Yesordre, 354 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: can you tell me about that? 355 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: So office hours is a couple of half hour slots 356 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 2: every week that anyone can just book and come in. 357 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: I actually just came off the back of some the 358 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 2: Melbourne office and look, ninety percent of the time people 359 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: are having a career conversation. So they sometimes they'll bring 360 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 2: in a performance development plan, or they'll bring in their 361 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: kind of goals and we'll chat them through. Or they'll 362 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: have a job that they're thinking about that they want 363 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: to kind of bash out so people can use them 364 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: for whatever they want. But most of the time it 365 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 2: is about people development. I mean, I think you know, 366 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 2: I have been at Google for a long time and 367 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 2: I've had sort of two stints in the Australia team, 368 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 2: and you know, we've done incredible things, and we've built 369 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: wonderful products, and we've helped advertisers all around the country. 370 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 2: But man, the dopamine hits when you see someone who 371 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 2: you hired sixteen years ago become a director, or you 372 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: see them in a job that's in a completely different 373 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 2: team and they are just nailing it. I don't think 374 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: there's a better dopamine hit that you get from seeing 375 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 2: that and knowing and because we have a culture where 376 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: that sort of seeking advice and helping and coaching is 377 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 2: part of the part of it, the full circle, like 378 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: people thank you for it. They come back and they 379 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: or they write you a card or you know, little 380 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: things like that, and you don't do it for that, 381 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 2: but you do feel like it's just a whole new 382 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: source of I don't know, inspiration and gratitude, and yeah, 383 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 2: it's my favorite thing to do. It's one of the 384 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: things that fills the cup, not grains the cup. And 385 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: that's kind of you know, in terms of managing your energy, 386 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: I think in senior roles, you do have to kind 387 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: of go in knowing that if I just go with 388 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 2: the flow here, my energy will be completely depleted at 389 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: the end of every day. So what am I actively 390 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 2: doing to top it up? Office hours is one of them. 391 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, Now you're a parent as well. You have three 392 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: kids and two ten and thirteen, I think their ages. 393 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: It said that you have a weekly spreadsheet with your 394 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: partner to manage everything parenting. 395 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 2: Can you tell me what that looks like? So it's 396 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 2: a spreadsheet with a few tabs, so you know, there 397 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: was actually a new tab added last week because I 398 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: was away and there was just a whole bunch of 399 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 2: stuff that was going on. And you know, it's like 400 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: military kind of level logistics when you have a teenager, 401 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 2: a tween, and a toddler. And so for my husband 402 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 2: having to do all three, like look after all three 403 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,719 Speaker 2: of them last week on his own, that was like major. 404 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: So there were you know, maybe a couple of times 405 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 2: there were ubers involved in bringing children school, but you know, 406 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: there was like an early netball camp, and there was 407 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: you know, tapping into the network of amazing mothers that 408 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 2: support each other in this sort of world. You know, 409 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 2: like so this person's picking up this child for that 410 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: day and this, you know, so it was just kind 411 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: of it's just a matter of putting it all on 412 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 2: one piece of paper. You know, we're both busy people, right, 413 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 2: so just having a go to on your phone that 414 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,719 Speaker 2: you can go, yep, this is what's going on today 415 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: is just easier. But you know, on the other spreadsheet, 416 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: there's here's the homework that this middle one needs to 417 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 2: get done this week, and this is what we need 418 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 2: to check at the end of every day. And you know, 419 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: so look it's just logistics, man. I mean it probably 420 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 2: speaks to some sort of control thing that I have. 421 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: It feels better once you've written it down, you know, 422 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 2: and you've got the structure and you know it's doable. 423 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: Otherwise you just think it's impossible. 424 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: M How do you think about parenting and the time 425 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: that you do spend with your kids, given like you're 426 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: in a job that's demanding and that requires travel. 427 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I try. I just try to 428 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: be as present as I can. I don't win all 429 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 2: the time, but it's about finding those moments that matter. 430 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: I think when you're you know, so I pick up 431 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 2: my daughter from school on a certain day and that's 432 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 2: just like not negotiable, and that's our time together. You know. 433 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: I do nepple on the weekends. I mean, it's a 434 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 2: great way just to connect with other parents, but for 435 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 2: her to know that Mum sees me there, that's really important. 436 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 2: I drive my eldest son to school and that's really 437 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: good chat time because he's at the age of he 438 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: doesn't want to necessarily look you in the face all 439 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: the time. But you know, that's our connection time. It's 440 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: about making the time you have work. You know. I 441 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 2: grew up in a household where my mum ran a 442 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: small business. You know, our loundroom was the boardroom, it 443 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: was the oper ration center, you know. And so I 444 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: think I had a kind of good schooling in Hey, 445 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: this is mum time and sometimes mum's got meetings at night. 446 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that I ever thought she was 447 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: less of a mumm. So I mean, yeah, I don't know. 448 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: I just I feel like there's all this kind of 449 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: pressure about how mums should be and all this kind 450 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 2: of stuff. I just want to be the mum they 451 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: call when something goes wrong. That's kind of my north star. 452 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,479 Speaker 2: And so how do you cultivate that relationship over the 453 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 2: course of you know, probably thirteen or fourteen years by 454 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 2: the time they start getting into those situations being the 455 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: one that they can talk to. So I don't pride 456 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: myself on necessarily have we made cookies today? Yes, great, 457 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: we've made cookies today. And great if you make cookies 458 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: like that, if that's your thing with your kids, awesome. 459 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 2: But for me, it's just about making sure individually they 460 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 2: have some time with one another and knowing. I think 461 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: the beauty of the smaller child is that he's given 462 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:15,479 Speaker 2: us this perspective that life changes a lot. You know, 463 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 2: there's a big difference between eight and ten. There's a 464 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: big difference between one and three. And so you know, 465 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 2: like if we're in a crazy phase now, it'll be 466 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 2: really different in six months time. So let's not beat 467 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: ourselves up over the factor what we can and can't do. 468 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 2: And if I've got to travel this week, that doesn't 469 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 2: delete every bit of parenting that we've done the week before. 470 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: You know, So, what are your principles around technology and 471 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: screens for your kids? 472 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a fascinating question because I've got 473 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: three kids and they are all super different, right and again, phases, 474 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: reasons and seasons. There was definitely I've always sort of 475 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: had that he's the rope, like you stuff it up, 476 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: basically like I'm going to trust you. Here are the boundaries, 477 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: and if you break them, then I pull back. But 478 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 2: I guess the first principle is I don't believe that 479 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: it's evil. I believe that. You know, my son when 480 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 2: he was little, learned how to sing, you know, let 481 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 2: it go in twenty five languages by watching YouTube. He 482 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 2: now he is really into art, so he will sit 483 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 2: there and watch videos about how to draw an eye. 484 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 2: I think that's a good use of screen time. If 485 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 2: he also then watches anime, and so I don't think 486 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 2: it's a one size fits all. I think it's what 487 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 2: you're doing on there. My daughter is at a different 488 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: phase in her life and it's completely different usage, and 489 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 2: so it requires a completely different style. And so it's 490 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: almost like leadership at work, as horrible as that might sound, 491 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 2: but there's no one size fits all. It's like, what 492 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 2: motivates you is not what motivates another person. And the 493 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 2: things that we need to develop with you are different 494 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 2: to the things that we need to develop with the 495 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: other one. So I think it's about being a little 496 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 2: bit more nuanced. But the reality is technology is going 497 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 2: to be part of their world. So I want them 498 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 2: to be the boss of their boundaries, just like I 499 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 2: want my folks at work to be the boss of 500 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 2: their boundaries as well. 501 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Something I've been thinking and writing a lot about this 502 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: here is health, and that's the topic of the current 503 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: book that I'm working on. And I'm curious, like, in 504 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: amongst all the different responsibilities that you have, where does 505 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,959 Speaker 1: looking after both physical and mental health for you? How 506 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: do you think about that? And where do you find time? 507 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 2: Such a great timely question. So I actually was lucky 508 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: enough yesterday to interview James Clear for an event we 509 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: had here in Melbourne. And I'm a huge fan of 510 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,239 Speaker 2: that book. But earlier this well, actually, when I came 511 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 2: back from matt Lbs sort of the beginning of last year, 512 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 2: while I was on maternity lab, I had the best 513 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: sort of regime of my life. I was walking every day, 514 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: I was yogaing every day, I was exercising every day. 515 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 2: I you know, like I had time to cook really 516 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: great healthy meals. Like the yoga was the mental health 517 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 2: break as well. Everyone was at home, so I got 518 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 2: breaks from the you know, I was living my best life, 519 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: let's just put it that way. And I came back 520 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 2: to work and Amantha, it just all vanished. It just 521 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: all slipped away. And despite the best of intentions like Okay, 522 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to get up a five point thirty and 523 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to do yoga and I'm going to do 524 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: Mama forget it right. And of course it takes me 525 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 2: about six months to kind of realize that that's happening. 526 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 2: And so I read Atomic Habits and I thought, Okay, 527 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to do this, like one percent of thing. 528 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 2: I'm just going to try. I'm just want to master 529 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: the art of showing up, and it's actually in the diary. 530 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: It's the hack for me has been I bought myself 531 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: a new fit bed, so I've gamer fighter. I've made 532 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: it attractive and made it sort of quite obvious. When 533 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: there is a half an hour break in my diary, 534 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 2: I leave the office and I go walk twice around 535 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 2: the block. When I spoke to you, I was walking 536 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: around the block, and so that's where I'm at right now. 537 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 2: But I've also realized that in a year's time, when 538 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 2: the baby's a little bit older, that these things become easier, right, 539 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: And so I'm just not I'm just being kind to myself, 540 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: to be honest. But the identity that I'm trying to 541 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: kind of manifest is I want to master the art 542 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: of showing up. I want to take advantage of the 543 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 2: moments that I have, and I just want to be 544 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: the sort of person that takes time for themselves. A 545 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: lot of anger that I hear from i'm working mums 546 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: is everybody takes from me, and I just I just 547 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: don't want to ever kind of foster that resentment. I 548 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 2: just I want to be even if it's five minutes, 549 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: that's enough, you know, I've done, like I've dropped one 550 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 2: of my kids off really early in the morning, just 551 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 2: done a sneaky trip down to this cliff, sat there 552 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 2: for five minutes. How did a quick little meditation. That's enough. 553 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: That's enough right now, So it's going to be kind 554 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 2: to myself. I love that, Mel. 555 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: For people that want to connect with you, what is 556 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: the best way to do that? 557 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 2: Well, LinkedIn is wide open, baby. LinkedIn is definitely the 558 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: best of plays because I do keep the other socials 559 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: private just because you know, I want to be able 560 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 2: to send photos of my kids to my mum. Had 561 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 2: of being open to the whole universe to see. But yeah, 562 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 2: for sure on LinkedIn, and it's a very busy channel. 563 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 2: I can imagine. I can imagine. 564 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: I feel like you're about to be inundated with many 565 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: messages on LinkedIn. Mel, this has just been such an 566 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: absolute joy. As I said, when we connected, and fratuitously 567 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: we got connected by someone at Google. You've been on 568 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: kind of my hit list in my mind for how 569 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 1: I work for a while now, and I'm so glad 570 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: that we could make this happen. It's just been just 571 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: a joy to hear about how you think about Work. 572 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: Thanks, aman there's been so wonderful to be here. 573 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: I hope that you enjoyed this chat with Mel I 574 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: must say she was such fun to talk to and 575 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: her energy, I must say, is so contagious. If you 576 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode and you know someone else who would benefit, 577 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: why not share it with them? And if you're enjoying 578 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: How I Work, I'd love it if you could take 579 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: a few seconds to leave a review in the Apple 580 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: Podcasts app or wherever you listen to this podcast from 581 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing part of your day with me 582 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for 583 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: more tips on how to work better, connect with me 584 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just 585 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on 586 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrenery people, part of the 587 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able 588 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: to work and live on this beautiful land and I 589 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. 590 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,719 Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support 591 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: from Dead Set Studios. 592 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 2: The producer for this episode 593 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: Was Liam Riordan and thank you to Martin Nimba, who 594 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: did the audio mix and makes everything sound better than 595 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: it would have otherwise.