Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud your the
Speaker 2: Order KERNI Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money the podcast
Speaker 4: Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. My name is Jessica Ricky
Speaker 4: and today, of course I'm here with Queen Victoria Divine.
Speaker 1: Queen Victoria Divine, I can get used to that.
Speaker 4: Oh, I know everybody bout down. But today VD we
Speaker 4: are talking about credit cards, ill spicy topics.
Speaker 1: Idea was this?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Communities?
Speaker 4: Absolutely? Did you know that As of June twenty twenty two,
Speaker 4: there are thirteen million, one hundred and sixty one thousand,
Speaker 4: four hundred and forty credit cards in Australia, netting a
Speaker 4: national debt occurring interest of eighteen point two billion. That's
Speaker 4: billion with a B dollars. And since the COVID nineteen
Speaker 4: pandemic began in twenty twenty, Australians collectively paid off four
Speaker 4: point two billion dollars of credit card debt.
Speaker 1: Ill And you know fun fact that I didn't write
Speaker 1: down for you in this script is that our current
Speaker 1: population as of Monday, the twelfth of September twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two is twenty six million people. So that's a lot
Speaker 1: of credit cards. Population. Half the preduclation has a credit card.
Speaker 4: I think about how many of the people in that
Speaker 4: poplation are too young?
Speaker 1: So you are giving me the ick Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: all right, Jesse GOURRICHI speaking of young I feel like
Speaker 1: this is going to be a really relatable piece of
Speaker 1: content because I know it didn't happen to just me.
Speaker 1: When I turned eighteen, I got a credit card offer
Speaker 1: as a birthday present in the mail from my at
Speaker 1: that time bank, and to me at the time, it
Speaker 1: was like a green flag. I think I had some
Speaker 1: like color blindness glasses on and I must have not
Speaker 1: seen the red but it definitely was real green to
Speaker 1: me because I took them up on that. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course I want a credit card. I am an adult.
Speaker 1: Let me add that. I think I had a five
Speaker 1: hundred dollar limit at the very start, because obviously that's
Speaker 1: quite responsible of the bank to not give me too
Speaker 1: higher of a limit. But after six months of having that,
Speaker 1: I remember getting a second letter I could increase my minimum,
Speaker 1: so I did that. I think it went up to
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred, then two thousand dollars, and then I know,
Speaker 1: I can't remember how old I was. I know I
Speaker 1: ended up with a credit card balance of more than
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars at some point because hot girl stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously I was really good at money. Did
Speaker 1: you ever get that?
Speaker 4: I don't think I did. But honestly, I can't remember
Speaker 4: I got a credit card when I was in my
Speaker 4: late teens. It was after I had turned eighteen. I
Speaker 4: don't think it was supplied for it yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you give.
Speaker 4: Anything a come, I must just beend it because I
Speaker 4: wasn't great with opening my mail.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look neither. I don't know why I opened that one,
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I can't even remember why I
Speaker 1: remember this? It seemed like such a mundane piece of
Speaker 1: mail at the time that now I'm like, why do
Speaker 1: I remember that? And now I'm like, oh, it's because
Speaker 1: subconsciously I should have known that was a red flag
Speaker 1: and I ignored it. But just for many Australians, managing
Speaker 1: credit and debt through credit cards is actually a really
Speaker 1: common element of their day to day money habits, while
Speaker 1: others a few bad mistakes have actually resulted in a
Speaker 1: downward debt spiral. But just like everything, there are people
Speaker 1: at all ends of the spectrum of how they use
Speaker 1: credit cards, and we know this from our community. We
Speaker 1: know that there are people who are actually wizards at it,
Speaker 1: like how many people have slid into our dms, And
Speaker 1: like Victoria, you shouldn't be crucifying credit cards as much
Speaker 1: as you do. They are absolutely not the devil's plastic.
Speaker 1: They are a very good tool. Look at how many
Speaker 1: points I have I never pay for flights?
Speaker 4: Cool And that's why on today show we are going
Speaker 4: to be looking at the stats on who exactly uses them,
Speaker 4: what for and how much they cost. Some good users
Speaker 4: for credit cards if that is something that might work
Speaker 4: for you, and what to do if you're in debt
Speaker 4: with them. But before we get straight into the thick
Speaker 4: of all the juicy deets, VD, I've got some fun
Speaker 4: stats for you.
Speaker 1: Come on stat scal Usually Georgia King is the stat scale,
Speaker 1: but you're having a turn this week.
Speaker 4: I'm going to give it a crack. So the average
Speaker 4: balance per credit card is two nine hundred and thirty
Speaker 4: eight dollars, just below three grand. Weariness is a lot
Speaker 4: of money. The average balance costing interest per credit card
Speaker 4: is one three hundred and eighty dollars. So I assume
Speaker 4: that's taking into account interest free cards and things of
Speaker 4: that nature, so that maybe not every dollar that's accounted
Speaker 4: for on credit is a caring interest. It might be
Speaker 4: a caring fees or something else in the background. The
Speaker 4: average number of purchases per credit card per month is
Speaker 4: twenty two, which seems like a lot.
Speaker 1: If you us a lot of purchase.
Speaker 4: Wait, thirty thirty one days in an average month and
Speaker 4: twenty two purchases, so you're putting something on your card
Speaker 4: twenty two tar often, then you're that's a lot. Absolutely.
Speaker 4: The average credit card purchase is one hundred and nine
Speaker 4: dollars and seventy two percent of people reported that they
Speaker 4: could manage their finances without a credit card, they were
Speaker 4: just electing to use one, while the remaining twenty eight
Speaker 4: percent could not.
Speaker 1: Why am I so negative about this? I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm so negative about this because I just see the
Speaker 1: financial implications for our community too often to not feel
Speaker 1: ick about it. Like you're right, Jess, there are so
Speaker 1: many people in our community who do do good things
Speaker 1: with credit cards. However, I feel like when something is
Speaker 1: a really big red flag for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: it's better to just avoid it entirely. Is that a
Speaker 1: bad thing?
Speaker 4: I know what you mean, but I think and this
Speaker 4: is where we see those conversations happening a lot is
Speaker 4: people saying, well, what if you do use it responsibly?
Speaker 4: And absolutely you can. I found it really interesting that
Speaker 4: seventy two percent of people said that they could manage
Speaker 4: without a credit card, but they elected to have one.
Speaker 4: Do you have any idea of why they might be
Speaker 4: looking to use them or Jess.
Speaker 1: I was looking at an article from Finder about why
Speaker 1: Australians actually take out credit cards and they had some
Speaker 1: interesting stats. So the biggest one, which I don't think
Speaker 1: will be a surprise to anybody, is forty one percent
Speaker 1: of people said they took out a credit card for emergencies.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's relatable content. I know I've lent
Speaker 1: on one like that in the past. Thirty eight percent,
Speaker 1: though didn't see this coming, or you might have because
Speaker 1: you're a flying queen, but thirty eight percent of people
Speaker 1: got it for frequent fly points or the rewards associated
Speaker 1: with it. I did not think that that would be it.
Speaker 1: I genuinely thought that the second one would actually be
Speaker 1: you know, budget and cash flow, which unsurprisingly doesn't actually
Speaker 1: feature in this list of topics. The next is twenty
Speaker 1: one percent of people got a credit card to make
Speaker 1: a big purchase eighteen percent, which I really don't like
Speaker 1: this one at all, Jess, because as we know, in Australia,
Speaker 1: you don't need a credit card to create a credit score.
Speaker 1: But eighteen percent of people getting credit cards in Australia
Speaker 1: said that they were getting them to establish their credit.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, they clearly haven't listened to our episode
Speaker 4: or about credit scores.
Speaker 1: And if you will, literally go back to our episode
Speaker 1: on credit scores, because if you've gotten a credit card
Speaker 1: to establish your credit, it's mistake nor I mean, we're
Speaker 1: not allowed to tell people they did the wrong thing.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I definitely don't think you did the
Speaker 1: right thing in that circumstance. Because in Australia, the best
Speaker 1: way to establish a credit score is actually just pay
Speaker 1: your bills on time and make sure you don't default
Speaker 1: on any loans or any bills that are due. It's
Speaker 1: actually not about having a credit card. That's a very
Speaker 1: American way of thinking of things, because the American money
Speaker 1: system works completely differently to ours. The next reason people
Speaker 1: would have got a credit card in Australia is eleven
Speaker 1: percent of people get them Jessica Ricci to do a
Speaker 1: balance transfer or pay off debt, which is interesting because
Speaker 1: they think this is a really valid reason to get
Speaker 1: a new credit card because often a lot of times
Speaker 1: they'll offer like, oh, for six months, it's zero percent
Speaker 1: interest rate, and you go, that's really good. However, that
Speaker 1: can actually get people in a little bit of a
Speaker 1: sticky position because just say you have a credit card
Speaker 1: nineteen percent, you're like, oh my gosh, this is getting,
Speaker 1: you know, way too overwhelming. You know what, I'm going
Speaker 1: to do a balance transferred to another credit card because
Speaker 1: I'll get six months of interest repayments. That sounds like
Speaker 1: a money win, except if you haven't done your budget
Speaker 1: or your cash flow after that six month period, you
Speaker 1: might end up with an interest rate of twenty two percent,
Speaker 1: and you actually end up further behind than you would
Speaker 1: go forward if you haven't actually worked out how to
Speaker 1: pay that debt off within that period of time. So
Speaker 1: definitely have a look at that before making that decision.
Speaker 1: And then eight percent of people said that they got
Speaker 1: a credit card to help them manage a drop in income,
Speaker 1: So that makes sense. But at the same time, why
Speaker 1: are we leaning on credit if your income overall has decreased.
Speaker 1: That's actually probably really establishing some negative money behaviors from
Speaker 1: my perspective. All right, Jess, I know historically you've had
Speaker 1: a credit card. Am I right in saying that you've
Speaker 1: gotten rid of it completely?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I did it was actually I did it when I
Speaker 4: was listening to the show.
Speaker 1: Paid Off the Money Ogfan.
Speaker 4: I know, throwback to Poor Jess like three years ago,
Speaker 4: but I originally got it. And it's really interesting looking
Speaker 4: at this list because I see a lot of my
Speaker 4: thought patterns in it, and I would imagine that these
Speaker 4: responses are what the initial catalyst for someone was to
Speaker 4: get the card, because in my experience, the reason you
Speaker 4: do get a card and the reason you keep a
Speaker 4: card very different. Yeah, it can often be very different things.
Speaker 4: And so my first card that I ever got was
Speaker 4: an interest free card. It was when I moved out
Speaker 4: of home for the first time, and it was a
Speaker 4: little bit unexpected, and I just didn't have the finances
Speaker 4: to get everything in order that I needed to do.
Speaker 1: That makes sense, Yeah.
Speaker 4: So it felt like a little bit of an emergency.
Speaker 4: I was having a bit changed and I needed to
Speaker 4: buy some furniture, and so I got like my bed
Speaker 4: and my mattress and stuff, and I put it on
Speaker 4: an interest free card, which worked really well for me.
Speaker 4: But I wasn't educated enough because in hindsight, I was
Speaker 4: paying a monthly fee which I think was about twelve bucks,
Speaker 4: which is.
Speaker 1: Not not much, but also it is a lot. It's
Speaker 1: not then your end all.
Speaker 4: I had I think maybe two or so thousand dollars
Speaker 4: on there with like the mattress and the few bits
Speaker 4: of furniture that I had.
Speaker 1: So like, did that change what ma interest? Some furniture
Speaker 1: you picked because you felt like, oh, I've got more
Speaker 1: to spend.
Speaker 4: No, it didn't. I knew what I wanted and it
Speaker 4: was just a matter of I didn't have the cash there.
Speaker 4: I was like, that's the best option, and in my head,
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, interest free, amazing, That's way better
Speaker 4: than paying interest. Didn't even think about the monthly or
Speaker 4: annual fees associated and I paid it off really slowly.
Speaker 4: I was only paying the minimum because I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm not paying interest on it again, not thinking about
Speaker 4: the monthly or annual fee. And then I got a
Speaker 4: second credit card because I something went wrong with my
Speaker 4: car and it was going to be like four thousand
Speaker 4: dollars to fix, and again I didn't have the cash,
Speaker 4: and I was just about to go overseas for a
Speaker 4: trip that I'd already paid for. It was like three
Speaker 4: days before I went away or something ridiculous. So I
Speaker 4: was like, I can't pull the money out because of
Speaker 4: course I'm respundable. And I was just like, well, I
Speaker 4: don't know what to do. So I got a card
Speaker 4: and I put that on there. But then I like
Speaker 4: would pay it off or pay off a substantial amount,
Speaker 4: and then I would just tap it because I'd be like,
Speaker 4: I'm saving money and I don't want to see money
Speaker 4: coming out of my account.
Speaker 1: Yeah, toxic.
Speaker 4: I don't keep money in the account associated with my
Speaker 4: bank card. We've spoken about this before because you've had
Speaker 4: to pay all me out a few times, but I.
Speaker 1: Don't keep feel like you need to find a better system.
Speaker 4: But I don't keep money in there because I lose things,
Speaker 4: and I have historically lost my bank card, and I'm
Speaker 4: afraid that if I keep money there, of course you
Speaker 4: start tapping, have a great time. So I don't keep
Speaker 4: money there. And so they've been times in the past
Speaker 4: where I've been like, oh, I need to transfer money over,
Speaker 4: but I have no internet reception.
Speaker 1: Literally just got back from America, have it.
Speaker 4: So like that would happen, I'd be like, oh, I'll
Speaker 4: just pop it on the credit card, because the credit
Speaker 4: card's always there. So like, yeah, the reason I got
Speaker 4: it and the reason that I used it or maintained
Speaker 4: it were two very different things. So I can see
Speaker 4: in this list where people perhaps are taking things out
Speaker 4: for the right reason. They want the rewards points, or
Speaker 4: they're just making one off, big purchase. But even if
Speaker 4: that's the reason you've got it, that's not necessarily the
Speaker 4: reason that you kept it. And I think that's where
Speaker 4: the element of danger kind of comes into it.
Speaker 1: Can completely agree with that. We've spoken about it a
Speaker 1: million times on the podcast before. Nobody gets credit card
Speaker 1: to go into debt, right, like all of these reasons,
Speaker 1: like for an emergency to make a big purchase, like
Speaker 1: we do them with the best of intentions. Like you
Speaker 1: sign up for a credit card, Jess, because in your circumstance,
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm moving out of home really unexpected, didn't
Speaker 1: have time to save. I need to go buy these things.
Speaker 1: I'll just pay it off really quickly. Yeah, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have ever thought, you know what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1: I'm going to drag these payments out and put myself
Speaker 1: in debt and you know, sacrifice future use financial security
Speaker 1: Like no one does that. However, if we aren't going
Speaker 1: into it fully educated, those are the circumstances we can
Speaker 1: find ourselves in way too easily, Jess. You said before
Speaker 1: that thirteen point one million Australians have credit cards, which
Speaker 1: is that's a big number from my perspective, especially because
Speaker 1: of the reasons people are getting them right like that
Speaker 1: means it's pretty common for people to want to lean
Speaker 1: on a credit card for an emergency circumstance, which means
Speaker 1: we need to, from my perspective, be doing a shitload
Speaker 1: more around financial literacy education. That aside, a lot of
Speaker 1: people have actually run into issues when applying for them
Speaker 1: and maybe been declined. So let's talk through a couple
Speaker 1: of those reasons as to why people might not get them.
Speaker 1: And this is, honest to god, one of the most
Speaker 1: frustrating things ever, because a lot of people in our
Speaker 1: community are freelancers or artists, or work in areas where
Speaker 1: they don't have a consistent income. Therefore, they might be
Speaker 1: way more likely to try and rely on a credit
Speaker 1: card to get from paycheck to paycheck. But the biggest
Speaker 1: reason people are declined when applying for credit cards is
Speaker 1: unsteady income at thirty six percent according to Finder. And
Speaker 1: then it's followed by having too much debt, which from
Speaker 1: my perspective it doesn't sound good, but I'm actually glad
Speaker 1: that people who are applying for credit cards who already
Speaker 1: have too much debt aren't getting further into debt. And
Speaker 1: then the third reason why people are being declined when
Speaker 1: they apply for credit cards at twenty one percent, Miss
Speaker 1: jessic Ricci, is having a bad credit score.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, like you said, ultimately, that's not the
Speaker 4: worst thing in the world, because I guess you want
Speaker 4: lenders to be lending responsibly.
Speaker 1: That's why we went through an entire royal commit like
Speaker 1: responsibility is so important. However, do you think that this
Speaker 1: makes people mad? I think so.
Speaker 4: But then I guess the thing to casitic heat would
Speaker 4: also be I guess additional factors. For example, if I'm
Speaker 4: a freelancer and I'm applying for a credit card with
Speaker 4: a thirty thousand dollar limit help me run my business,
Speaker 4: potentially the banks looking at me and going, oh, well,
Speaker 4: you don't necessarily have the cety income to service that,
Speaker 4: but we will give you one for ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 4: So it makes me kind of happy personally to know
Speaker 4: that on some level people are being rejected. I mean,
Speaker 4: we don't know, you know, how many people who apply
Speaker 4: are getting that, or how many people are being sent
Speaker 4: those birthday letters like what you got, But it makes
Speaker 4: me kind of glad to know that it's being looked at,
Speaker 4: because you know, some other kinds of debt like buy now,
Speaker 4: pay later, aren't regulated that heavily, and I think it's
Speaker 4: important that they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you know what. That makes me so
Speaker 1: mad because people are seeing it so differently. They're looking
Speaker 1: at buy now, pay later in credit cards as completely
Speaker 1: separate products.
Speaker 4: But Vie, do you know how long it takes people
Speaker 4: to actually pay off that debt once they have it?
Speaker 1: Okay, So I did some research and it really ticked
Speaker 1: me off. Just creach, you tell me what because if
Speaker 1: you look at the statistics from Finders credit Card Statistics,
Speaker 1: they have an entire web page on this right, which
Speaker 1: I find really interesting because I think it gives us
Speaker 1: some really good insight, but it doesn't give the context
Speaker 1: I would like it to give. So on that website,
Speaker 1: it says that it'll take female six point nine months
Speaker 1: to pay off a credit card debt and it takes
Speaker 1: male six point two months, which I think is totally fine,
Speaker 1: makes sense. There's not actually that much difference between the
Speaker 1: average for a male and a female. It obviously skews
Speaker 1: to male's being able to pay off a credit card
Speaker 1: debt quicker, which we're not surprised about when there is
Speaker 1: the gender pay gap in every other pay gap under
Speaker 1: the sun. However, Jess, I feel like that makes it
Speaker 1: seem a lot softer, like six.
Speaker 4: Months a long time. That's not what my experience was either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it wasn't my experience either. I was
Speaker 1: literally in credit card debt for years. So to take
Speaker 1: it another step further and really contextualize it and go,
Speaker 1: all right, well, how long does it take to pay
Speaker 1: off credit card debt? I think that's six month average
Speaker 1: is just when someone might have put a couple of
Speaker 1: debts on there and they're like, at a couple of
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars and it actually didn't massively impact their
Speaker 1: cash flow, right, Like, let's say you had a really
Speaker 1: well paying job and you got that credit card in
Speaker 1: the same way you did historically Jess, just for like
Speaker 1: the bed and a few pieces of furniture, and you
Speaker 1: had a really well paid job. You just smash it
Speaker 1: off six months, easy done, wam bam, Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 1: And there are going to be people in our community
Speaker 1: who are like, well, that's how I use my credit card.
Speaker 1: It's fine, But I've got an example for you. So
Speaker 1: we know that the average credit card debt in Australia
Speaker 1: is just over two thousand dollars. However, the amount that
Speaker 1: I always struggled with because I had a limit of
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars on my credit card when I was
Speaker 1: younger and I earned like maybe fifty grand. That is
Speaker 1: a lot of your income that's able to be you know,
Speaker 1: lean out in credit. So let's go with an average
Speaker 1: balance of about you know, five two hundred dollars. Let's
Speaker 1: pretend that's how much debt you have on a credit card, Jess.
Speaker 1: That then means that your monthly repayment is about fifty
Speaker 1: two dollars per month, and you go, all right, new problems.
Speaker 1: So each and every single month, you're going to get
Speaker 1: an email or a letter. If you do still get letters,
Speaker 1: please turn them off. It's tell it bad for the environment.
Speaker 1: But you're going to get an email from your bank
Speaker 1: or your credit facility to say, hey, Jess, your minimumory
Speaker 1: payment is due. You're going to go log in, pay
Speaker 1: your fifty two dollars and be like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: thank god, that's over. Like I've paid my credit card
Speaker 1: this month, I'm sitting pretty right. However, if you only
Speaker 1: make that minimum of payment of fifty two dollars each
Speaker 1: and every single month, yes, that's going to take you
Speaker 1: twenty three years to pay off, and it will end
Speaker 1: up costing you eleven, four hundred and thirty three dollars.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's crazy. What interest rate is that?
Speaker 1: So that's a nineteen percent interest rate, which is pretty standard.
Speaker 1: Most credit cards sit anywhere between fourteen to about twenty
Speaker 1: five percent, which is wild. However, if you upped that
Speaker 1: and you said, all right, I've got five two hundred
Speaker 1: is dollars on my credit card, I'm going to pay
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty two dollars each and every single
Speaker 1: month instead of that fifty two bucks, which jess at
Speaker 1: the time, I hated doing that. If you got like
Speaker 1: such a waste of money when I put additional cash
Speaker 1: onto my credit card, I'd be like, but I only
Speaker 1: had to pay fifty two dollars, Like, I'm not that
Speaker 1: much further out of debt. I could have used that
Speaker 1: one hundred bucks or that you know, one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty bucks to go out for drinks or live my life.
Speaker 1: But one hundred and eighty two dollars on a five thousand,
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars debt will mean that you're out of
Speaker 1: debt in three years as opposed to twenty three years,
Speaker 1: and the total will only cost you six thousand, five
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty four dollars as opposed to more than
Speaker 1: eleven thousand dollars. That is insane, that's crazy, right, So
Speaker 1: if you pay that off within that three years, you're
Speaker 1: saving more than four and a half thousand dollars, Like,
Speaker 1: that's so much money that you could have invested or
Speaker 1: saved or put towards an entire holiday. Like four and
Speaker 1: a half grand goes a really long way. So I
Speaker 1: think when we go back to that question that you
Speaker 1: asked before, and I'm sorry, I have gone on a
Speaker 1: little bit of a rant or a tangent of how
Speaker 1: long it takes to pay off a credit card. If
Speaker 1: we just look at the stats, they're not that scary.
Speaker 1: But if we look at the reality of our community
Speaker 1: and how I used to be and arguably how you
Speaker 1: used to be. You just look at the minimum repayment,
Speaker 1: do you, and you go, all right, well, i'll pay
Speaker 1: that and I've got a life to live, or I'll
Speaker 1: do this, and it makes the most sense for me.
Speaker 1: So to say it only takes us sixi ish months,
Speaker 1: I think is just a little bit too flippant for me,
Speaker 1: because I go, well, that means that it doesn't sound
Speaker 1: so scary. However, if that's your experience money we in,
Speaker 1: six months of credit card debt is not that long.
Speaker 1: And usually if you're in a little bit of a
Speaker 1: financial pickle and you have relied on credit card debt,
Speaker 1: getting out of it in six months is a great
Speaker 1: position to be in. I think my main takeaway, or
Speaker 1: the takeaway I want you guys to have here, is
Speaker 1: that if you do use a credit card, we have
Speaker 1: to be always aware. We have to be on top
Speaker 1: of our payments, we have to be on top of
Speaker 1: what we're putting on there, and not do the Victoria
Speaker 1: Devine special of like, oh, I'll just tap it because
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about that, or I'll just
Speaker 1: pop it on my credit card because I know I've
Speaker 1: got room on the card. I'll just do that. Does
Speaker 1: that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely. And we know from those stats that we share
Speaker 4: before that forty one percent of people who do get
Speaker 4: a credit card do so for emergencies. Some recent statistics
Speaker 4: from find art share that only half of OSSI's who
Speaker 4: find themselves in out of control credit card debt would
Speaker 4: be able to dig themselves out if they got into it.
Speaker 1: It's actually so scary. I remember sitting down with someone
Speaker 1: from our community, and I'm not going to get too
Speaker 1: much into the semantics because it's their story and their
Speaker 1: story alone to be shared. However, I sat down with
Speaker 1: them and they were in more than one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars worth of credit card debt. I think
Speaker 1: I've shared this story on the pod before. One hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty thousand dollars worth of credit card debt duwel
Speaker 1: income family, but they were living way beyond their means.
Speaker 1: And when I sat her down and said, look, this
Speaker 1: is your get out of debt plan, because obviously that's
Speaker 1: something that I've always specialized in, they just didn't want
Speaker 1: to reset their lifestyle. They were like no, Like that
Speaker 1: means that I wouldn't be able to do abc DN,
Speaker 1: And it just was so shocking to me that they
Speaker 1: were choosing literally choosing to bury their heads in the
Speaker 1: sand and continue to go further into debt because they
Speaker 1: didn't want to compromise their lifestyle. Like, to me, that
Speaker 1: was wild, and I always it's so strange. If I'm
Speaker 1: up at four am, that's what I'm thinking about. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I wonder what they're up to now, because there's no way.
Speaker 1: They haven't not gone bankrupt because that was the next step. Like,
Speaker 1: at the point in time that I saw them, they
Speaker 1: had the ability to create a strategic plan to get
Speaker 1: out of it. It would never have been easy, however,
Speaker 1: because they've buried their heads in the sand, I just
Speaker 1: know that the situation they're in now is arguably even worse,
Speaker 1: and it honestly breaks my heart.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it seems like people really fall into two
Speaker 4: camps when it comes to credit cards. There's people who
Speaker 4: are using it efficiently and in a way to make sense,
Speaker 4: and there are people who are using it in a
Speaker 4: way that is a little bit more detrimental and maybe
Speaker 4: not putting themselves in the best possible position.
Speaker 1: Which is what I used to do and having you know,
Speaker 1: you and I just recently went to America and we're
Speaker 1: talking to our friends who are also money podcasters and
Speaker 1: in that space, and they're like, oh, yeah, I used
Speaker 1: my credit card points to like get an upgrade to business.
Speaker 1: And you and I are sitting in the back of
Speaker 1: the plane at economy and I'm like, maybe we should
Speaker 1: revisit this, But I'm also so scared to get another
Speaker 1: credit card because I'm like, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can be trusted even though I have a better education now.
Speaker 1: So it's just such an interesting position to be in.
Speaker 4: So when people find themselves in that hole where they
Speaker 4: are in a truckload of debt, they need to dig
Speaker 4: themselves out, I've got a little list here for you
Speaker 4: of the different ways that they might approach that. So
Speaker 4: fifty three percent of people said that they would utilize
Speaker 4: their emergency savings, which arguably, emergency savings are there to
Speaker 4: get you out of an emergency, so glad to see
Speaker 4: that's up the top. Eighteen percent of people would ask
Speaker 4: friends or family to help them out. Eighteen percent of
Speaker 4: people would also call their bank provider or issuer for help,
Speaker 4: which I think is a really great thing. That's something
Speaker 4: we say on the podcast all the time is if
Speaker 4: you do find yourself in a tough spot, definitely reach
Speaker 4: out to somebody to see if they can help you.
Speaker 4: It's a little bit of leeway on your repayments, or
Speaker 4: a little bit of extra wiggle room on your due
Speaker 4: dates and things like that. Five percent of people said
Speaker 4: they would just miss the payment, which is really that
Speaker 4: burying the head in the sands that you were talking
Speaker 4: about before. And three percent of people said they would
Speaker 4: take out a small personal loan to cover it. And
Speaker 4: I feel like some of the things on that list
Speaker 4: are really perhaps not the most ideal situation.
Speaker 1: So it's just what other people are doing though, right,
Speaker 1: It's not actually advice of like, oh hey, here are
Speaker 1: some hot tips on how to get out of credit
Speaker 1: card debt. It's just I guess some insight on what
Speaker 1: people are doing in their own circumstances, because sometimes you
Speaker 1: are backed into a corner and you're like, well, I
Speaker 1: can't get out of this credit card debt. I'm going
Speaker 1: to have to go down the route of finding a
Speaker 1: personal loan to cover me for that period of time.
Speaker 1: Like this definitely is an advice because I think that
Speaker 1: some of those things can be really bad. But I
Speaker 1: think the number one thing I would do is literally
Speaker 1: call my band called Product Issue Are for some advice
Speaker 1: and some help, or even reach out to a team
Speaker 1: like our friends at Wiser Jess who can actually point
Speaker 1: you in the right direction, or as we've always talked
Speaker 1: about on the show, call the National Debt Helpline. Honestly,
Speaker 1: they are there for any debt, big or small. You
Speaker 1: don't have to be in the biggest financial pickle in
Speaker 1: the entire world to lean on their services. They exist
Speaker 1: to help.
Speaker 4: So what are some good sets that people can take
Speaker 4: if they do find themselves getting into debt.
Speaker 1: So I think the first thing that you need to
Speaker 1: be doing is really looking at your money story and
Speaker 1: what your take on credit card debt actually is. I
Speaker 1: think looking for the solution immediately doesn't address the underlying
Speaker 1: problem of why we are leaning on credit card debt
Speaker 1: in the first place. It could be a shopping addiction.
Speaker 1: It could literally be a situation like yours, Jess, where
Speaker 1: it's actually got nothing to do with your money abilities
Speaker 1: and everything to do with, oh my gosh, I need
Speaker 1: to move out and I don't actually have access to
Speaker 1: instant cash to be able to put a bed in
Speaker 1: the house, which at the end of the day is
Speaker 1: a hygiene factor. We need to address this. So I
Speaker 1: think having a talk to yourself about how you got
Speaker 1: in this particular circumstance is, from my perspective, the most
Speaker 1: important thing that you do, because if we address that,
Speaker 1: we can make sure one we don't slip back into it,
Speaker 1: but two we can create a plan to get out
Speaker 1: of it that addresses that at the same time. So
Speaker 1: from there, I would then look up a credit card
Speaker 1: repayment calculator to work out a payment plan that actually
Speaker 1: becomes affordable to you. We discuss the difference of making
Speaker 1: a fifty two dollars minute repayment versus one hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty two dollar minum room repayment, but you might go VI,
Speaker 1: I just can't afford that, Like, what are the options
Speaker 1: in between? I think it would be about really looking
Speaker 1: at your budget and cash flow and what's a little
Speaker 1: bit shiftable. We've spoken about it before. You can get
Speaker 1: rid of some of your streaming services in the interim,
Speaker 1: you can get rid of some things that are allowed
Speaker 1: to come back once you're completely out of debt. But
Speaker 1: what can we do in the short term that puts
Speaker 1: you in a position to turbocharge your debt reduction. I
Speaker 1: would then obviously really recommend spending within your means. Credit
Speaker 1: cards aren't free money, so be really careful with your
Speaker 1: spending habits and avoid purchasing things that we don't really need. Jess,
Speaker 1: we say it all the time on the podcast and
Speaker 1: in real life, and you posted about it on Instagram
Speaker 1: the other day. What's the other thing that she's on
Speaker 1: the money usually says.
Speaker 4: Put twenty four hours between you and your purchases.
Speaker 1: At a minimum, but Bingo, I think that that can
Speaker 1: really put you in control. But I think it also
Speaker 1: puts you in a position where you go, oh, do
Speaker 1: I really need this or not? In the heat of
Speaker 1: the moment, Guys, I'm really impulsive want to buy it.
Speaker 1: But if I put twenty four hours between me and
Speaker 1: my spending, especially if it's online spending, Jess, I look
Speaker 1: at it and I go, oh, my gosh, I completely forgot.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even intending on purchasing that. So that's kind
Speaker 1: of helpful. But I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: we need to create a really solid budget and cash
Speaker 1: flow plan that makes sense for us and strip back
Speaker 1: all of those things that are not hygiene factors in
Speaker 1: your budget. So obviously we don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: say on our rent and our bills and what we're
Speaker 1: spending on food, But what are those discretionary costs that
Speaker 1: we could potentially cut back on in the short term
Speaker 1: to put ourselves long term in a better financial position.
Speaker 4: Okay, I know it seems like we're bashing on credit cards,
Speaker 4: but I promise you that's not what we're doing here
Speaker 4: today's episode only a little bit, so come back after
Speaker 4: the break because we're going to talk through what some
Speaker 4: of the benefits might be. Don't go anywhere, Welcome back today.
Speaker 4: We are talking all about the ins and outs of
Speaker 4: credit cards FD. Let's talk through some benefits because I
Speaker 4: know people think that we really do just think they're
Speaker 4: the devil incarnate, which they're not. It can be used responsibly,
Speaker 4: so can you.
Speaker 1: Tell peoples plastic devul's plastic? No, there are a number
Speaker 1: of benefits associated with credit cards that it would be
Speaker 1: silly of us to completely dismiss because at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, we've spoken about how detrimental they can be,
Speaker 1: and I do think we need to really weigh up
Speaker 1: the pros and cons. However, there is literally a long
Speaker 1: list which I have written down, and Jess, you and
Speaker 1: I are going to go through them with you now.
Speaker 1: But there is a long list of benefits associated with
Speaker 1: having a credit card, and when used constructively, sometimes people
Speaker 1: actually make money. So it would be silly of us
Speaker 1: to not address it. However, from my perspective, if you
Speaker 1: are a little bit like me, and you are a
Speaker 1: little bit impulsive, even though these benefits can look really sexy, Jess.
Speaker 1: If you're anything like me and you are really impulsive,
Speaker 1: it does not mean that a credit card is right
Speaker 1: for you, no matter how good the benefit looks. Because
Speaker 1: I know that even if we go, all right, well,
Speaker 1: there's cash back, or there's rewards points, or there's all
Speaker 1: these other frequent flyer miles that we could add to
Speaker 1: your account, I just know that as somebody who has
Speaker 1: as we've spoken about before, I have ADHD. I love
Speaker 1: a good gamification, love a good dopamine. Here I'll be
Speaker 1: like rewards points, frequent flyer miles, how many can I get?
Speaker 1: And Jess, you have seen me do it with my
Speaker 1: frequent flyer miles without a credit card, so I don't
Speaker 1: know how it would go with a credit card. Let's
Speaker 1: be brutally honest.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so big thata caveat on the front that
Speaker 4: just because there is something shiny attached to the credit
Speaker 4: card doesn't necessarily mean it's a good choice. But with
Speaker 4: that being said, V run me through your.
Speaker 1: Lists, all right. The first thing on the list, Miss
Speaker 1: Jesscarci is one time bonuses. So often credit cards offer
Speaker 1: cash bonuses in exchange for spending a certain amount in
Speaker 1: the first several months of the account being open. So
Speaker 1: other cards often enticed applicants with bonus reward points or
Speaker 1: miles that could be redeemed for travel or gift cards,
Speaker 1: or merchandise or a whole heap of other things. Jess
Speaker 1: we've all seen it. I feel like that's a pretty
Speaker 1: good no brainer one. The next is cash back, So
Speaker 1: you guys know, we love shot back. You don't even
Speaker 1: need a credit card to use shot backs, so maybe
Speaker 1: that's a very good alternative if cash back is of
Speaker 1: interest to you. But the cash back credit card is
Speaker 1: another really popular incentive. Some cards now offer two or
Speaker 1: three percent, or even as much as six percent back
Speaker 1: on selected purchases. Then number three on my least, Jessica,
Speaker 1: is rewards points. So many rewards credit cards provide bonus
Speaker 1: points for certain categories of spending, like restaurants or groceries,
Speaker 1: or spending on fuel. When certain earning thresholds are reached,
Speaker 1: points can be redeemed for travel or gift cards from
Speaker 1: retailers or restaurants, or for merchandise items through a credit
Speaker 1: card company's online rewards portal. So think back, jess you
Speaker 1: love a good Flybys point. Oh, my god, Yes, no
Speaker 1: credit card necessary with that one, but you literally banked
Speaker 1: up all of your fly buys points and what you get.
Speaker 4: I got a kitchen age.
Speaker 1: You've got a whole damn kitchen egg for free. Literally
Speaker 1: it is wild. And I think the trick to rewards
Speaker 1: points is to actually work out what best suits your
Speaker 1: spending patterns, as opposed to just looking at the shiniest option.
Speaker 1: Because for you, Jess, you just tap your fly every
Speaker 1: time you're at the grocery store and you're getting these
Speaker 1: bonuses and it doesn't even include a credit card. But
Speaker 1: if there's something that is going to really work for you,
Speaker 1: maybe that's when you lean into it.
Speaker 4: Before we get into the rest of the list. I
Speaker 4: would personally group those first three into like a little
Speaker 4: subset because I think, interestingly, when you look at it critically,
Speaker 4: they're all aimed at establishing spending habits, Like, yeah, all
Speaker 4: of these things aim at encouraging you to use your
Speaker 4: credit card regularly so you get, you know, your one
Speaker 4: time bonus if you spend five thousand dollars in the
Speaker 4: first three months, or you get rewards points if you
Speaker 4: spend on your fuel or your groceries. All the things
Speaker 4: that you buy all the time. And I think that's
Speaker 4: really a little bit sneaky by the credit card companies because.
Speaker 1: They've been trying because it keeps you at clients, yeah, and.
Speaker 4: They're trying to put you in a position where you
Speaker 4: are relying on these purchases regularly and they're using those
Speaker 4: points to entice you to do so. So like they're absolutely,
Speaker 4: as you said, great if it works for you in
Speaker 4: your lifestyle. But I would also encourage people to be
Speaker 4: conscious of what new habits you're forming, because that's when
Speaker 4: you maybe are going to slip into something that's a
Speaker 4: little bit less sustainable for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that it's a really good point
Speaker 1: to bring up. It's kind of like if something is free,
Speaker 1: there's a reason for it. Like there's no such thing
Speaker 1: as a free lunch. It's not just an American thing.
Speaker 1: Like I was talking to Glenn James a couple of
Speaker 1: days ago actually about this, and it's if something is
Speaker 1: free and you can't work out why you're the product.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's really interesting to bring up
Speaker 1: because so many times people are like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's free. I just added my email, like cool, they're
Speaker 1: probably selling your email address and all of your information.
Speaker 1: So just be really careful about what that means. Because
Speaker 1: when something is free, you're the product. But if it's
Speaker 1: free and it's a service, it's usually to keep you
Speaker 1: engaged and keep you spending beyond the means that you
Speaker 1: usually would have set up for yourself. Right, Like, this
Speaker 1: is so important that as much as they're going, oh,
Speaker 1: cash back that's so sexy, Oh my gosh, one time
Speaker 1: bonus is fantastic, rewards points, it's actually so that you
Speaker 1: stay in their ecosystem and spend more. Because Jesse, if
Speaker 1: I sat you down earlier, you gave me a statistic
Speaker 1: that said that the average credit card purchase was one
Speaker 1: hundred and nine dollars. I would argue that my average
Speaker 1: purchase is not one hundred and nine dollars, Like, most
Speaker 1: of my purchases are far below that. I'd be interested
Speaker 1: to look into. I guess the psychology around what type
Speaker 1: of spending patterns we are establishing on credit cards, because
Speaker 1: that's significantly higher than I'd say, yours or my average spend.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. Tell me what else have you
Speaker 4: got on your list? All right?
Speaker 1: So, Glenn James, special it is the frequent flyer miles.
Speaker 1: So many frequent flyer cards are made way more valuable
Speaker 1: by their mileage based introductory bonuses. So these are often
Speaker 1: enough to put you fifty or even one hundred percent
Speaker 1: of the way towards a bonus flight after meeting a
Speaker 1: card's initial spending requirements. So if you're going on a
Speaker 1: holiday or you're traveling a lot, that could be something
Speaker 1: that really plays into it. Something that our community really
Speaker 1: likes is the safety. So number five I've written down
Speaker 1: is safety, and that is because when you pay with
Speaker 1: a credit card, it is often easier to avoid losses
Speaker 1: from fraud. So when your debit card is used by
Speaker 1: a thief, the money is often just missing from your
Speaker 1: account immediately. However, when you use a credit card, it
Speaker 1: works a little bit differently. The money is not missing immediately,
Speaker 1: and sometimes a transaction can be completely canceled or it
Speaker 1: can be skipped, and it's far more likely to be
Speaker 1: acknowledged by a credit card system because they are looking
Speaker 1: for it on a more regular basis than your bank
Speaker 1: is with your debit card. Right, so if you know
Speaker 1: another one hundred bucks goes out on your debit card,
Speaker 1: they're going to be like oh, Jess is probably just spending,
Speaker 1: whereas there's a lot more data with a credit card
Speaker 1: transaction that they're able to trace and go, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know if this was Jess, because this is a
Speaker 1: very different system. I've also heard that they're more flexible
Speaker 1: with chargebacks as well. It's chargeback the right works. I
Speaker 1: think it's like cash back or charge back.
Speaker 4: It's like if someone steals your card and they, you know,
Speaker 4: spend five hundred dollars on the Iconic and you go
Speaker 4: to them, oh, like, my card's been stolen. I've heard
Speaker 4: and this is my personal experience, but credit cards are
Speaker 4: much more quick to go, oh my gosh, we're so
Speaker 4: sorry and charge it back somebody comes back to your card,
Speaker 4: whereas banks it can be a little bit more of
Speaker 4: a strenuous process.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure that you guys have heard our
Speaker 1: money diarists before. We've had people who this has happened too,
Speaker 1: and I think it's really valid. But I also think
Speaker 1: it plays into your larger financial plan, right, and how
Speaker 1: your banking system works, because going back to Jess, Jess,
Speaker 1: your banking system is such that you don't actually have
Speaker 1: a debit card that gives you immediate access to your
Speaker 1: lump sum of cash. So if some scammer got hold
Speaker 1: of Jess's card, good luck, you can probably buy a Starbucks.
Speaker 1: And that's basically it. If you're lucky, you're lucky. So
Speaker 1: number six on my list Jess is insurance. And this
Speaker 1: is another one that our community goes wild for and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh my gosh. Insurance is such a big
Speaker 1: thing with credit cards. It's a money when I would
Speaker 1: argue that you need to read the terms and conditions
Speaker 1: of the policy because most of the time, me being cynical,
Speaker 1: me the insurance on a credit card does not stack
Speaker 1: up when compared to a different type of insurance policy. So,
Speaker 1: for example, Jess, you and I had to buy travel
Speaker 1: insurance recently, and we bought standalone policies. They are great policies,
Speaker 1: but I know that a policy with a credit card
Speaker 1: that came for free would not have been as comprehensive
Speaker 1: or had as high a level of cover. But most
Speaker 1: credit cards automatically come with a number of different consumer
Speaker 1: protections that people just don't even realize they have. So
Speaker 1: it could be rental car insurance, or it could be
Speaker 1: travel insurance or product warranties. That might exceed the manufacturer's warranty.
Speaker 1: And the important thing to do here is actually one
Speaker 1: understand what they are, but to make sure that you're
Speaker 1: not just relying on it because you heard, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: well I have you know rental car insurance, like, understand
Speaker 1: what that actually means, because sometimes putting yourself in the
Speaker 1: best position actually looks like going and getting a standalone policy.
Speaker 1: The other caveat there, Jess, is it's not just hey,
Speaker 1: I got rental car insurance. You actually have to use
Speaker 1: that card to book that rental card. Otherwise you're not cut,
Speaker 1: which makes sense. Another selling point of a credit card.
Speaker 1: Number seven I've written down is universal acceptance. So when
Speaker 1: you want to rent a car or stay in a
Speaker 1: hotel room, you'll almost certainly have an easier time if
Speaker 1: you have a credit card. In saying that, not to
Speaker 1: bring up the fact that we've been overseas so many
Speaker 1: times this year. Again, every hotel that I have stayed in,
Speaker 1: I have put down a debit card, not a credit
Speaker 1: card on our room and had absolutely no issue. So
Speaker 1: I think that this is more of a historical issue.
Speaker 1: In saying that a lot of people feel a lot
Speaker 1: more comfortable having it there, and often rental car companies
Speaker 1: and hotels actually want customers to pay with credit cards
Speaker 1: because it makes it easier to charge customers for any
Speaker 1: damage that they cause to like a room or a car,
Speaker 1: and it just actually makes the job easier for the
Speaker 1: hotel because it's easier to put cash onto a credit
Speaker 1: card than it is to authorize the transaction to a
Speaker 1: debit card. It just makes sense. So, Jess, that wraps
Speaker 1: up my hot list of reasons you could and should.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm saying this, should get a credit card?
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably not should, but for sure I feel like
Speaker 4: the TLDR of that is, if you are getting a
Speaker 4: credit card for the first time, you know, there's kind
Speaker 4: of the two camps. There's credit cards on the market
Speaker 4: with you know, low interest rates or no interest rates
Speaker 4: potentially as well, but make sure if you are looking
Speaker 4: at those, you look into the monthly and annual fees
Speaker 4: that might be associated and then obviously credit cards that
Speaker 4: come with rewards. Both potentially might be a good option
Speaker 4: for you, but they're definitely aimed at servicing very different people,
Speaker 4: and I guess it's probably worth people considering if they
Speaker 4: are wanting to get a credit card, maybe starting with
Speaker 4: something a little bit more basic with a really low
Speaker 4: interest rate, and seeing if you use it successfully, because
Speaker 4: if you've never had one before, you don't know what
Speaker 4: your interactions or habits are going to be like once
Speaker 4: you've got that card.
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I'm still so negative on it, and
Speaker 1: would argue that if you don't need one, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: be getting one. I can see the safety aspect of it, like,
Speaker 1: you know, having traveled and been able to put things
Speaker 1: on debit card. Every time I approach that reception desk,
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure if they going to accept that,
Speaker 1: So I can understand wanting to have it because you
Speaker 1: feel more safe traveling with it. Right However, I would
Speaker 1: still would, if possible, steer clear of things like that, because,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned through that entire list, there are so
Speaker 1: many different cash rewards programs or fly bys points that
Speaker 1: you can get without even needing to have a credit card.
Speaker 1: So if you're rewards driven, why not look for options
Speaker 1: that don't include having to have a credit card? Is
Speaker 1: probably where I would sway when it comes to advice.
Speaker 4: Jessica, Yeah, and one little tip from me from my
Speaker 4: personal experience is you can lower your maximum spend on
Speaker 4: your cards, so all ot of the time they'll come
Speaker 4: in like one thousand, five thousand, ten thousand dollar limits,
Speaker 4: and it's just very standard and very basic. But you
Speaker 4: can actually generally get in contact with your credit card
Speaker 4: provider if you are wanting to get a card for
Speaker 4: the first time, or if you do know that you're
Speaker 4: a little bit spendy and say hi, like I'd actually
Speaker 4: like to drop my limit to five hundred dollars or
Speaker 4: one thousand dollars, and they will usually have a minimum
Speaker 4: that they want it to sit at. But that's something
Speaker 4: that I did when I was weaning myself off my card,
Speaker 4: is I just kept dropping my amount and dropping my
Speaker 4: amount and my amount to make sure that I couldn't
Speaker 4: actually overspend on it.
Speaker 1: All right, Jess, I think that that is probably a
Speaker 1: really good place to leave it. Again, if you're listening
Speaker 1: to this and you are in debt, there are a
Speaker 1: number of different places that you can go to help.
Speaker 1: We always, always always recommend our friends at the National
Speaker 1: Debt Helpline who have tons of free resources and you
Speaker 1: can call and speak to them too. We'll obviously link
Speaker 1: them in the show. Notes. But Jess Grici, it is
Speaker 1: now time to wrap the boring but important stuff. Take
Speaker 1: it away, my love.
Speaker 4: Don't forget guys. The advice shed on Cheese on the
Speaker 4: Money is general in nature and does not consider your
Speaker 4: individual circumstances. Cheese on the Money exists purely for educational
Speaker 4: purposes and should not be relied upon to make an
Speaker 4: investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria Divine
Speaker 4: and Cheese on the Money are authorized representatives of Infocused
Speaker 4: Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN four seven oh nine seven
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Speaker 1: See you on Friday, guys.
Speaker 4: Bye,