Speaker 1: Good a Peter Hally here, Welcome to you and See
Speaker 1: Nothing Yet in the Movie Podcast, where I chat to
Speaker 1: a movie lover about a classical beloved movie they haven't
Speaker 1: quite got around to watching until now. And in this
Speaker 1: episode it's my project co host Walie A. Lee, and
Speaker 1: I just want to point out this podcast was recorded
Speaker 1: a week before the sad news of David Prowse's passing.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say thank you, David Prowse. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if they have podcasts in Heaven. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what the Bluetooth situation is like up there, the
Speaker 1: Wi Fi situation, but I just want to say thank
Speaker 1: you for inhabiting Darth Vader. You brought so much fear
Speaker 1: but ultimately joy into my life. Surely you can't be serious.
Speaker 1: I am serious, and don't call me Shirley. I'm all
Speaker 1: the gin joints and all the towns in all the world.
Speaker 1: She walks into. Mind, I didn't get a harm fut
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: Gay Hurrah.
Speaker 1: This bloke goes all right. He's my co host on
Speaker 1: the Project on Channel ten. He's a Calmness for the
Speaker 1: Age Thing Morning Herald of New York Times. He's a
Speaker 1: radio host he's a podcaster. He's got a new one outcords.
Speaker 1: So now what which deals with the life with the coronavirus?
Speaker 1: And then what happens next? They are just job titles.
Speaker 1: Walid Ali is much more than that. His clarity of thought,
Speaker 1: the way he can deliver what he's thinking so precisely
Speaker 1: and economically, has helped so many Australians navigate their way
Speaker 1: through recent troubling times, not only through coronavirus, but in
Speaker 1: particular the christ massacre over a year ago. Other than that, Whileid,
Speaker 1: besides being a tremendous broadcaster and one of the most
Speaker 1: incisive voices in austreaming media, he's actually just a great mate.
Speaker 1: He's a great confidante. He has helped me a lot
Speaker 1: and just entertained me. I have the pleasure of sitting
Speaker 1: next to him four nights a week on the project,
Speaker 1: sharing a dressing room where we discuss everything from sport, politics, music,
Speaker 1: the media, and his obsession with a little game called
Speaker 1: Secret Hitler. He's balanced, he's incisive, he's fair, he's terminally curious,
Speaker 1: and I would have to admit he's bloody smart as.
Speaker 3: Gooday. My name is Wilid Ali. My three favorite films.
Speaker 3: Batman begins, I'm Batman, the Princess Bride as he watched
Speaker 3: and Back to the Future. But until Pete wrope me
Speaker 3: into this, I had never seen Star Wars.
Speaker 1: A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
Speaker 1: Actually wasn't that long ago all that far. It was
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven in Los Angeles when George Lucas introduced
Speaker 1: us to a farm boy, a princess, a smuggler, some robots,
Speaker 1: and a huge dog ape thing that would change cinema
Speaker 1: and pop culture forever. Luke Skywalker is well bloody hell
Speaker 1: at Star Wars. You know what I'm talking about? Well, Laide,
Speaker 1: welcome to you. Ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 3: That intro was not for me, clearly because I had
Speaker 3: no idea what you're talking about until not so long ago.
Speaker 1: Mate, we should point out that this episode has been
Speaker 1: a long time coming. Hi, I kind of you know,
Speaker 1: I think we both do. Sometimes we suss each other
Speaker 1: out about things we're thinking about or projects we're thinking
Speaker 1: about taking on. But I kind of ran this by you.
Speaker 1: I think about three or four years ago.
Speaker 3: I might have ever't been longer than that. It feels
Speaker 3: like a long.
Speaker 1: Time a long time, and you nominated Star Wars straight away,
Speaker 1: and but actually, I think when I pitched the idea
Speaker 1: the show was going to the podcast was going to
Speaker 1: be called what do you mean you haven't seen Star Wars?
Speaker 1: And then somebody told me there's a podcast, I think
Speaker 1: out of the UK, which almost has exactly that name,
Speaker 1: has a different, slightly different premise, so I had to
Speaker 1: come up with that you ain't seen nothing yet and
Speaker 1: there are no regrets on that, but it has been
Speaker 1: so I guess, full disclosure, you watched it probably two
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 3: It was probably about a year ago, because we'll do
Speaker 3: this about it, yes, And you said you've got to
Speaker 3: watch it overnight, and I did, and then for some resident.
Speaker 1: Happened and I'm not sure it was your fault or
Speaker 1: my fault. There's no, there's no.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty clear on what I have. Yeah, you have
Speaker 3: your version of events.
Speaker 1: I have no, no, no.
Speaker 3: It's verified. Well, I definitely know.
Speaker 1: So you watched it again, like if you watched it,
Speaker 1: and so I just watched it. Okay, great, great.
Speaker 3: It's very fresh and it's amazing because even though the
Speaker 3: first time I watched it wasn't that long ago, because
Speaker 3: it was in preparation for this. I feel like I
Speaker 3: still forgot quite a bit of it, and so seeing
Speaker 3: it again was still a bit like watching it the
Speaker 3: first time.
Speaker 1: So I'm very fresh, well excellent, excellent now before we
Speaker 1: and I'm The other thing is it's been now a
Speaker 1: year since you've watched it, and so committed to the
Speaker 1: integrity of this podcast, I have not asked you what
Speaker 1: you thought of it. I have no idea what's ahead
Speaker 1: of us. There's been times I think we've circled around it,
Speaker 1: but even you have been also a man of integrity
Speaker 1: as you are, and so no, we will wait for
Speaker 1: the podcast. Don't try to squeeze anything out of me.
Speaker 1: Let's circle back to your favorite films. Three brilliant films.
Speaker 1: One that keeps on coming up. We may have to have,
Speaker 1: as this community builds, almost have a screening where we
Speaker 1: all get together and watch The Princess Bride, because it
Speaker 1: is a movie that has come up more than any other.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to be a cliche in that respect, but
Speaker 3: i just can't help it. In fact, if you made
Speaker 3: me choose one, it would probably have to be that one.
Speaker 1: And did you see it at the at the rap age.
Speaker 3: No, no one saw it. Yeah, thought I was at the.
Speaker 1: Right age when you saw it? Did you see it?
Speaker 3: Probably I do? You know what, I actually can't remember
Speaker 3: when I saw it, but I was old enough to
Speaker 3: get that it was silly, So I wasn't at that
Speaker 3: age where I thought it was a fairy tale.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: I got the humor of it, probably not at the
Speaker 3: level that I would later get it, but enough so
Speaker 3: I must have been I don't know, twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
Speaker 3: something like that, and I had the guidance my brother.
Speaker 3: So my brother's ten years older than me, so he
Speaker 3: very much got the humor at that level. And so
Speaker 3: I guess I watched his interaction that and that clued
Speaker 3: me into some of the human that was going on.
Speaker 3: But it's just is it the most quotable film ever conceivable?
Speaker 3: You've got Godfather and you've got things like that, but.
Speaker 1: Well, the most quotable film, you know, outside of whimsy
Speaker 1: or comedy, which you know, I feel like those comedy
Speaker 1: films get quoted for different reasons. Lines almost. I think
Speaker 1: the most quotable filming in fact that and we've spoken
Speaker 1: about it on this podcast is Cassiblanket Like officially the
Speaker 1: most most revered kind of lines. But maybe that's a
Speaker 1: separate thing.
Speaker 3: See, I feel like with that, you quote that without
Speaker 3: knowing you're quoting it, because those lines have just become
Speaker 3: part of it. Is that the Frankly, my dear, I
Speaker 3: don't give it.
Speaker 1: Is that that's the win, and everyone, including myself gets
Speaker 1: gone with the wind and.
Speaker 3: Castle Blank, Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1: One's incredibly racist. One's only a little bit racist.
Speaker 3: As long as they're racist. So, but you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, It's one of those lines. I feel like
Speaker 3: with Castle Blank. I don't know this, but I feel
Speaker 3: like with Castle Blank that happens a lot, whereas with
Speaker 3: Princess Bride, everyone who quotes it knows exactly what they're quoting,
Speaker 3: why they're quoting it. It's in exchange. So I'm quite
Speaker 3: you know, to anybody want to pin it and then
Speaker 3: you know exactly where you are and why I'm saying it,
Speaker 3: and then you will say, no, my rams, Now I meant, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's that kind of It's a communal film and that
Speaker 3: was a subculture.
Speaker 1: Have you shared it with your kids yet?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So my daughter, my son doesn't get it. He
Speaker 3: was too young, I think when we started watching. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think I did, although I think I've still got time.
Speaker 3: I think I can still get him. Yeah, Okay, my
Speaker 3: daughter watched it and straight away, just straight away loved
Speaker 3: it and then started watching it on her own, and like,
Speaker 3: it's that kind of because I feel like it does
Speaker 3: reward you on multiple watchings. I think I don't know
Speaker 3: what it is either, because it's not like there are
Speaker 3: just layers and layers and layers to it that you
Speaker 3: keep exploring. I don't know what it is, but there's
Speaker 3: something about it. Maybe it's a bit like a great
Speaker 3: song or something. Yeah, not all films are, I think,
Speaker 3: but do.
Speaker 1: You think a lot of it is? Also it's a
Speaker 1: great film, and I won't bore everyone, but I'll just
Speaker 1: I feel, like I always say when it comes out,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have the absolute same place in my heart
Speaker 1: as it has so many because I think I watched it.
Speaker 1: I watched it later in my twenties. So but I
Speaker 1: really I'm really desperate to see it in a cinema
Speaker 1: and I want to take my youngest son, san Oscar,
Speaker 1: who's twelve, to see it, to kind of experience it,
Speaker 1: to try to kind of ReCl you know, put myself
Speaker 1: in that headspace.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea.
Speaker 1: That's my plan going forward.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry you're not part of our community though, because
Speaker 3: it's it's a very richly rewarding community.
Speaker 1: Should we tell the Many be Thinking story? Will man
Speaker 1: to hear it? I'm pretty sure Many Thinking is not
Speaker 1: listening to it. You ain't seen nothing yet?
Speaker 3: But no, let me put it this way. Would you
Speaker 3: have him as a guest on? You ain't seen nothing?
Speaker 1: It depends how much, depends how much time I had, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: so I'll set up the first half so for those
Speaker 1: who don't know, while letting myself work on a show
Speaker 1: called The Project. It's a news and current affairs show
Speaker 1: with the entertain aim as well. We try to do
Speaker 1: a bit of both. And we had Many be Thinking
Speaker 1: on and everyone was so excited, absolutely buzzing. Whether it
Speaker 1: was because you love Princess Bride, which is a large
Speaker 1: part of it also, but also you know Chicago Hope,
Speaker 1: a lot of Chicago Hope fans Homeland of course, and
Speaker 1: he comes on and he's lovely. He comes on the
Speaker 1: same night where I have a new TV show which
Speaker 1: I had worked very hard on. I'd written and acting
Speaker 1: in and was producing and director a few episodes. It's
Speaker 1: How to Stay Married, and it's the opening night of that,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's so it becomes basically one
Speaker 1: of the most important you know hours or you know,
Speaker 1: you know, the leading the half hour leading in the
Speaker 1: half hour of the show. You know of my recent life.
Speaker 1: You know, you want it to work.
Speaker 3: It was the first series too, wasn't It's the first series,
Speaker 3: So it was like, this is LRD, this is the lot.
Speaker 1: And you don't get you know, second chances, any won
Speaker 1: first impression. So the plan was to have Many patinking
Speaker 1: on and then and then have the star of How
Speaker 1: to Stay Married, my co star Lisa mchuwn on, And
Speaker 1: we knew that I really wanted to make sure that
Speaker 1: Lisa mchuwne had enough time, that we had enough time
Speaker 1: to have fun but also promote the show. And you know,
Speaker 1: there every thing we want to do when we're promoting
Speaker 1: a show. So Lisa's in the last segment, which is
Speaker 1: a segment six. Many Buttinkin is in segment five, so
Speaker 1: you know that whatever, if the thinking goes longer, it's
Speaker 1: going to chew into my.
Speaker 3: Means less hell yes, yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly right, so many but thinking has been a
Speaker 1: lovely guest. He's been, you know, like so delightful off
Speaker 1: off screen, so delightful and so entertaining on the show.
Speaker 1: And I'll let you take it from there.
Speaker 3: Then, as we're commencing the wind up, for some reason,
Speaker 3: I still can't remember, I cannot remember the question we
Speaker 3: asked him.
Speaker 1: I think you went there, wrap up up, you know,
Speaker 1: and and you said you gave him a little something.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it was. I do regret it,
Speaker 3: I know I regret it. And he decided he would
Speaker 3: commence telling a story something to do with refugees, and
Speaker 3: he happened upon a particular refugee. He was like a
Speaker 3: twelve year old boy from Afghanistan. As we are getting
Speaker 3: the floor, crew doing a huge wind up gest ure.
Speaker 3: Anyone who's been in a TV studio will know the one, right,
Speaker 3: And it's just this circular motion with you with the arm,
Speaker 3: and it gets bigger and bigger and more furious.
Speaker 1: I started filling a breeze.
Speaker 3: Yes, it was annoymous. It's someone install a fan. What's
Speaker 3: going on? And as this wind up he is getting
Speaker 3: more and more furious, he decides he will pass on
Speaker 3: the words from this twelve year old I think Afghan
Speaker 3: boy who had been through something horrific that he promised
Speaker 3: he would take to the world. So not merely would
Speaker 3: I be forced to interrupt him mid message from said
Speaker 3: twelve year old refugee, but I would interrupt his promise
Speaker 3: to that refuge But he also had this habit, and
Speaker 3: this was true throughout the interview, but it was acutely
Speaker 3: true at this moment of lingering over the way he
Speaker 3: told these stories, and he would leave pauses, and he
Speaker 3: did this thing which I just wish we were filming,
Speaker 3: like if you can see this, this is when it works.
Speaker 3: But he sits back in his chair and he puts
Speaker 3: his fingertips together in a thinking pose, as though he's
Speaker 3: not really going to proceed with the story until it
Speaker 3: has fully engorged his body or something.
Speaker 1: I was half expecting the studio audience to leave their
Speaker 1: chairs and just go sit at his feet.
Speaker 3: Amazing. And I don't know how long the pause was
Speaker 3: as he thought and drew breath and just read it
Speaker 3: himself for imparting these well obviously immortal words, But it
Speaker 3: felt like roughly a century.
Speaker 1: So it felt like a century felt two century. I
Speaker 1: just showed a plug. I just remember going what's going on?
Speaker 1: And in many the thing is defense. It was a
Speaker 1: wonderful story as a beautiful.
Speaker 3: I think it was. I wasn't listening. I was busy
Speaker 3: just trying to figure out how I was good, because
Speaker 3: not only do you have the floor crew winding you,
Speaker 3: you've got the producer in your ear. Yeah, well know, guys,
Speaker 3: we have to go now.
Speaker 1: I was probably kicking you under the table.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure you were. And at that point you
Speaker 3: honestly feel like standing up and shouting to the producer,
Speaker 3: what do you want me to do?
Speaker 1: You come out of here and wind Man, you can
Speaker 1: telling a story about an Afghan boy who's spreading the
Speaker 1: word of love around the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that he's promised to pass on the thing.
Speaker 1: It pieces me off his that aff ganboy wouldn't have
Speaker 1: ever been watching.
Speaker 3: He probably I don't think he even likes so many.
Speaker 3: He probably thinks Homeland's racist. As I recall, now, you
Speaker 3: would remember better than me. But I think it actually
Speaker 3: worked out really well for you in a way because
Speaker 3: in the next segment, there were a couple of items,
Speaker 3: and we ended up dropping the item that wasn't how
Speaker 3: to stay married. But as I recall, that left us
Speaker 3: with a bit of a conundrum because instead of you
Speaker 3: having no time, you and Lisa mcewne ended up with
Speaker 3: way too much time. There's we didn't but we didn't
Speaker 3: have any questions to feel that we had. We had
Speaker 3: quite a tightly composed idea for the segment.
Speaker 1: I think Lisa, for memory, ended up having to do
Speaker 1: a number of them. Cabaret.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's how. That's how.
Speaker 1: That's my memory.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my memory too.
Speaker 1: But thinking if you're watching, you did nothing wrong. No,
Speaker 1: I just had some time pressures on me.
Speaker 3: That's true. And it's hard to pick up the pacing
Speaker 3: of our show if you're not familiar with it. Let's
Speaker 3: just say it's not pink and pacing.
Speaker 1: No, it's a little bit more Last and the Furious.
Speaker 1: No doubt about that Batman begins. There was always going
Speaker 1: to be I'm surprised there's if I'm if there's any
Speaker 1: surprise here. It's just that it wasn't like Batman begins,
Speaker 1: d Knight and Batman and Robin in there somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was tempted.
Speaker 1: I will say, why you are a massive Batman fan.
Speaker 1: You usually stroll into the Project office either wearing a
Speaker 1: Liverpool T shirt, which you are today, or a Batman
Speaker 1: T shirt that I'm usually Collingwood or Celtics.
Speaker 3: I tend not to wear the Richmond one because I
Speaker 3: don't feel the need to provoke. You do wear on
Speaker 3: game days occasionally, yes, yes, especially I'm going to the MCG,
Speaker 3: which I feel like I haven't done in probably roughly
Speaker 3: as long as a ptinking interview.
Speaker 1: Why does Batman Begin stand out over the other Dark Knight?
Speaker 1: Because the Dark Knight is one that obviously people tend
Speaker 1: to scientist.
Speaker 3: So part of it was just this sort of unavoidable
Speaker 3: hipster instinct to avoid cliche, because Dark Knight is a
Speaker 3: fantastic film. But I chose Batman Begins because these are
Speaker 3: the best Batman films, the Nolan Batman films. Pretty I
Speaker 3: feel like everything Christopher Noland does just incredible, even though
Speaker 3: I don't know a lot about film, and I feel
Speaker 3: I haven't seen just about any films. Whenever I say
Speaker 3: a Christopher Nolan film the prestige or whatever, like they're incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's always ambition, yes behind it, which.
Speaker 3: Is yeah, yeah, in fact, I probably should have put
Speaker 3: the prestige in there. I remember watching them blew my mind.
Speaker 3: But anyway, so his Batman, he's the best Batman, and
Speaker 3: his villains are the best villains. But what I don't
Speaker 3: know that non Batman fans will appreciate quite so much
Speaker 3: is Batman Begins is so perfectly done because a he
Speaker 3: chooses quite an obscure villain in Rasell Gul, who doesn't
Speaker 3: turn up anywhere really except the comic books, like you
Speaker 3: don't he wasn't in the sixties series. I think in
Speaker 3: the comic books. I think he comes later anyway, so
Speaker 3: he didn't exist back there.
Speaker 1: Which is a really brave choice when you are launching
Speaker 1: totally you know, hopefully another franchisee another reboot of the franchise.
Speaker 1: Not to go with one of your well know, not
Speaker 1: to go with the Joker.
Speaker 3: You think you go a Joker, or you think you
Speaker 3: go with if not Joker, Penguin and I actually remember
Speaker 3: in the series there were all these rumors as it
Speaker 3: was going that Philip c more Hoffman was going to
Speaker 3: play Penguin and Nolan just in this interview I came
Speaker 3: across said something really interesting. He said, I'm actually much
Speaker 3: more excited about the idea of Philip se More Hoffman
Speaker 3: than I am about the idea of Penguin, which is fascinating.
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, be excited about Philip ce More Hoffman,
Speaker 3: of course, but Penguin, you would think, God, he could
Speaker 3: do a lot with that. But you could sense that
Speaker 3: he wanted to make very particular choices about his villains.
Speaker 3: And Batman is made by his villains, Like he is,
Speaker 3: in my view, the greatest superhero, but that's because he
Speaker 3: has the greatest villains. And the Joker, I think is
Speaker 3: the greatest villain of all of them. He's so complex,
Speaker 3: he asked so many difficult ethical questions. He's so clearly
Speaker 3: mirrors Batman. They're so clearly the same person. And Joker
Speaker 3: is everything Batman is trying really hard not to become,
Speaker 3: and all Joker wants to do is make Batman become him.
Speaker 3: So all of that sort of thing. But to choose
Speaker 3: Rasal Goul, Yeah, I was wow. Like it's obscure, but
Speaker 3: it's perfect, and it's perfectly crafted because and this is
Speaker 3: the true miraculous nature, a truly miraculous nature of this film.
Speaker 3: By the time he puts on the batsuit, it's an
Speaker 3: origin story. Right, by the time he puts on the batsuit,
Speaker 3: you as a viewer are going, well, of course, that's
Speaker 3: the most natural thing that he could possibly do, right,
Speaker 3: And that's a big trick. Yeah, Like to make Batman
Speaker 3: such a natural evolution of the character of Bruce Wayne,
Speaker 3: it's hard to do. No one's really ever done it.
Speaker 3: You kind of get the idea. His parents gets shot,
Speaker 3: he's a bit messed up, he doesn't like crime. He
Speaker 3: puts on the suit, but you kind of have to
Speaker 3: suspend your disbelief that it's ridiculous. Why is this guy
Speaker 3: putting on six foot rubber suit looking like a bat Like,
Speaker 3: there's no it's a stupid thing to do. Yeah, it's crazy,
Speaker 3: but Nolan makes it inevitable by the time.
Speaker 1: And he grounds it in this kind of you know,
Speaker 1: it's caught between a reality like it feels like you know,
Speaker 1: I think Heat was a big the movie. Heat was
Speaker 1: a big influence on these films, and I've heard Nolan
Speaker 1: speak about that. But it's also it still is feels
Speaker 1: like the superhero world, and I think that's a really
Speaker 1: tough thing to pull off. So I can understand the
Speaker 1: joke when you say joke is the greatest villain. What's
Speaker 1: your fascination? Why does Batman stand out for you? If
Speaker 1: I was cynical, I would say Batman is a man
Speaker 1: with one hell of a budget.
Speaker 3: Yes, he clearly is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's like he's got no actual superhero superhero powers,
Speaker 1: So what makes him the best superhero?
Speaker 3: So he's not the best superhero in that if they
Speaker 3: all had a fight, I don't think he wins. He's
Speaker 3: the best superhero for me as a character, as a universe,
Speaker 3: that's what I'm in. And I think it's because he's
Speaker 3: psychologically complex and he's morally complicated. Actually, there's a fair
Speaker 3: argument against what Batman's doing. You know, no one's mounting
Speaker 3: that argument against Superman, are they. Who's saying is Superman doing.
Speaker 2: The right thing?
Speaker 3: I don't know about it. Yeah, in some ways I
Speaker 3: find Superman boring because he's too good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love the original Super Superman films. I think
Speaker 1: they came along at a time when I was the Christopher. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was young and I was ready for him and
Speaker 1: seeing seeing him, you know, take on those you know,
Speaker 1: the three Bad, Black, Awesome, Awesome two was very good,
Speaker 1: but the recent ones, you know, when you're trying to
Speaker 1: watch him as an adult, you're going to go it
Speaker 1: leaves you a little empty.
Speaker 3: So the only I've had a conversation with someone who
Speaker 3: argued the Superman over Batman case ones, and the most
Speaker 3: compelling argument he made was Superman raises the problem of
Speaker 3: absolute good and total power. And so when you have
Speaker 3: the power to stop anything, but there are times where
Speaker 3: you have to make a choice over where to use
Speaker 3: that power, that's interesting. Yep, Okay, it's interesting enough, but
Speaker 3: it's not as interesting as should he kill the Joker
Speaker 3: or not? Like that's a really interesting question. The philosophical
Speaker 3: dimensions of that are fascinating, Like, you know, is he
Speaker 3: a consequentialist? Where he goes, look if I just killed
Speaker 3: this guy, then so much. It's kind of like the
Speaker 3: would you kill baby Hitler question? Right, so much is
Speaker 3: taken care of, but at the same time it undoes
Speaker 3: his very reason for existence because he only has one rule,
Speaker 3: and that is that he doesn't kill and so how
Speaker 3: much is that worth? And so he ends up being what,
Speaker 3: in philosophical terms, you would call a daontologist. That's the
Speaker 3: inherent moral character of the action that matters, not the
Speaker 3: consequence of the action. And so all of these and
Speaker 3: the Joke is constantly trying to goad him into doing
Speaker 3: this right and constantly saying, there's no difference between and
Speaker 3: you having a code with this one rule. It's so
Speaker 3: ridiculous that you want to He's tempting him, right. The
Speaker 3: Joker's basically the devil. He's whispering, He's just constantly trying
Speaker 3: to So I think it's just the level of psychological complexity.
Speaker 3: It's the fact that he's not an unmitigated hero that
Speaker 3: he and there are moments in the comic book universe
Speaker 3: this is really clear, like when Frank Miller gets hold
Speaker 3: of Batman in the Dark Knight Turns and which is
Speaker 3: kind of a lot of the inspiration for the Nolan films.
Speaker 3: He takes Batman to such an extent that you actually
Speaker 3: have to ask whether or not you're on his side anymore.
Speaker 3: And I find that thrilling. I just think that's there's
Speaker 3: something so rich about that. So I think that's what
Speaker 3: I mean about it. And then apart from that, the
Speaker 3: aesthetic of Batman's just great. There's just something about that
Speaker 3: the black Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's cool, He's the coolest looking superhero.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't kill baby Hitler. I would wait until he
Speaker 1: was older, like an art student.
Speaker 3: Well, if he'd been when he didn't go to he
Speaker 3: missed out.
Speaker 1: Missed out, you kicked out, Okay, I thought, but he
Speaker 1: was became like a barista, because you're not going to
Speaker 1: miss a barista, you know, like you're get in trouble
Speaker 1: for killing a baby.
Speaker 3: So are you thinking more about the repercussions for you.
Speaker 1: Just how it would feel, because if you got caught
Speaker 1: killing baby Hitler, I don't know he's Hitler yet.
Speaker 3: It's true. It's a very hard ask to convince a
Speaker 3: judge that you don't know what this guy is going
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when he's when he's painting flowers, sunflowers. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: hasn't done anything too bad getting them?
Speaker 3: How bad would the coffee? You have to be though,
Speaker 3: before you can justify executing him.
Speaker 1: When he's you know, when he starts serving baby chinos.
Speaker 4: Right, that's the end, that's out. Speak of history, back
Speaker 4: to the future. Yeah, great, great selection. There are all
Speaker 4: great selections, but that is that's one of the all times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again I had a sequel issue, which one
Speaker 3: of the series youchoose?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Really? I would clearly have Back to the Future.
Speaker 3: Well that's where I landed. Yeah, But I remember as
Speaker 3: a kid when I watched so the only one I
Speaker 3: saw in the cinema was three, yep, because that was
Speaker 3: what nine ninety yeah, so it would have been in
Speaker 3: grade six, And I still remember going to the cinema
Speaker 3: with John O'Hare in our school holidays to see Back
Speaker 3: Future three. But Back to the Future I had already.
Speaker 3: I'd never heard of Back to the Future until I
Speaker 3: saw one and two on video or whatever it was,
Speaker 3: and everyone was talking about it, but I wasn't part
Speaker 3: of that, so I missed that release of it. I
Speaker 3: was too young. But I as a kid, you're really
Speaker 3: excited about two because it's the future, right, and it's
Speaker 3: flying cars and hoveryboards and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3: So I think you can get sucked into that as
Speaker 3: a kid. Then in the cold light of day and
Speaker 3: with the fullness of maturity, I think you look back
Speaker 3: and you go One's everything. It's got everything you need.
Speaker 3: It is so good, it is great, And then you
Speaker 3: realize also that it's the same film three times. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well it inspired it inspired my children's book series Frankie
Speaker 1: and yeah, like when you're running time travel, it's hard
Speaker 1: to come up with one reasons. Why you are you
Speaker 1: want your characters to go back? Yeah, because always they
Speaker 1: always get into trouble. Yes, so why are they going
Speaker 1: to put themselves in trouble again?
Speaker 3: Well do they didn't realize though?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, but this time it's so important. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah it is.
Speaker 3: He's got a real stake.
Speaker 1: And then how do you get them back?
Speaker 3: It's yeah. And then and there's the Enchantment under the
Speaker 3: Sea dance. Oh, it's Johnny B. Good is just such
Speaker 3: a great moment in I mean, you know better than
Speaker 3: me because I don't know much about cinema, but I
Speaker 3: feel like that's one of the great moments in cinema.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Well, because it's it's it's it's fun, but it's
Speaker 1: got it's got purpose, you know, it's not it's Sometimes
Speaker 1: there will be a film where it's a set piece,
Speaker 1: and that set piece might just be Michael J. Fox singing, singing,
Speaker 1: you know, a song because they wanted they wanted a moment.
Speaker 3: And the risky business sort of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a song and dance and it's it's
Speaker 1: just fun. But the fact that he's playing that and
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's hand starts.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's just it's so good, And how.
Speaker 3: Good is that line at the end. It's like, I
Speaker 3: guess you guys aren't ready for that yet, but your
Speaker 3: kids are gonna love it. It's such a great line.
Speaker 1: There's so many great lines. And the third act I
Speaker 1: think is one of the most perfect third acts in cinema.
Speaker 3: Why do you say that.
Speaker 1: It's just it moves so beautifully, everything just fits together
Speaker 1: so well. It's tense. There are just moments, moments after
Speaker 1: moment after moment after moment, and it all makes complete sense.
Speaker 1: The only issue I have back to the future that
Speaker 1: third act is and I don't think it's it's a
Speaker 1: real issue. But so Marda McFly realizes he has to
Speaker 1: get back to stop Doc Brown from being mowed down,
Speaker 1: and he gives himself he's got a time machine, give
Speaker 1: himself fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a bit stupid.
Speaker 1: If I was going back to save my best friend
Speaker 1: for being mowed down by terrorists, I reckon I would
Speaker 1: give myself a year, and every day for a year,
Speaker 1: he gets a little post it note I'm putting around
Speaker 1: his house. You know, I'm calling him mate. Remember the
Speaker 1: parking lot, you know, spring Ferns or whatever it's called,
Speaker 1: parking lot. Don't go there, Oliviyan terrorists. Well fine, don't
Speaker 1: don't do that deal because you actually ripped them off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't rip them up in the first place. Don't
Speaker 1: do business with terrorists.
Speaker 3: What I like about this is you've just revealed that
Speaker 3: you think the terrorists are in the right here. You're
Speaker 3: on the terrorist.
Speaker 1: I'm the one saying that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm definitely not why A you're backing away.
Speaker 1: From the microphone. Let's take a quick break and we'll
Speaker 1: be back. Finally, I will finally find out what you
Speaker 1: thought of Star Wars. Okay, it's been a year since
Speaker 1: you first watched it, breaking ground, and you ain't see
Speaker 1: nothing yet. The first time I've had a guest that
Speaker 1: I'm aware of who has watched the film twice a
Speaker 1: year apart. And I got to say, when I watched
Speaker 1: it a year ago when we were planning on doing
Speaker 1: it and we have to postpone it, and I was
Speaker 1: watching it knowing, and I've seen Star Wars for forty
Speaker 1: fifty I don't know fIF times. Maybe I was nervous
Speaker 1: watching it and I watched it because I knew you
Speaker 1: were watching it, and I was going, shit, it's really
Speaker 1: going to realin Star Wars for me, And all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, I kind of started saying all the flaws.
Speaker 3: With it, and yeah, so she sends me for so
Speaker 3: many reasons. First, it makes me nervous about what I'm
Speaker 3: about to say. Secondly, it makes me wonder what you think.
Speaker 3: I am no.
Speaker 1: Well, to be honest, as I watched it again last night.
Speaker 1: I rewatched it last night. Yeah. Today. It's probably the
Speaker 1: one film that I could have gotten away without watching again.
Speaker 1: But I was happy to watch it and I'm committed
Speaker 1: to the point and I'm glad I did exactly. I
Speaker 1: really picked up a few things, but I didn't have
Speaker 1: that same feeling.
Speaker 3: But last time, when you got to the end, yeah,
Speaker 3: I feel like what you're about to say is far
Speaker 3: more interesting than anything I'm about to offer. What did
Speaker 3: you get to the end and worry or were you
Speaker 3: only worried going into watching it?
Speaker 1: I no, I think I got to the end. It
Speaker 1: didn't continue on afterwards, but I think I was that
Speaker 1: viewing For me, I felt a bit flat. I was like,
Speaker 1: it wasn't what you thought of and then I come,
Speaker 1: I shook the laugh and I thought, of course it's
Speaker 1: good because I always when people and obviously there's a
Speaker 1: lot of commentary around Star Wars, good and bad, and fans.
Speaker 1: The more movies they make, the more fans seem to
Speaker 1: become device divided. Yeah, but I'm always like, remember these
Speaker 1: are kind of like kids films. Yeah, really like yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know, take everything with a grain of salt.
Speaker 1: What did you think?
Speaker 3: I really liked it?
Speaker 1: Whow all right, that's thank you very much.
Speaker 3: You know what. It's actually more complicated answer that, because
Speaker 3: because I ended up watching twice. The first time I
Speaker 3: watched it, I got to the end, and honestly, I
Speaker 3: remember thinking, oh, is that it. That's what the whole
Speaker 3: thing was about.
Speaker 2: Just that.
Speaker 3: I remember being stunned at how little was in the
Speaker 3: story and how long it took to get there. Yes,
Speaker 3: and I kind of felt, especially because am I allowed
Speaker 3: to give anything.
Speaker 1: It's Star Wars. You're the last person to actually Star Wars.
Speaker 3: It's done. Now they can get rid of it from them, so.
Speaker 1: They back to the future from that is true.
Speaker 3: That is true. But they blow up the death start
Speaker 3: like bloody hell. That's a big deal, right, and they
Speaker 3: do that and then the next thing is a metal
Speaker 3: ceremony and that's it. We're out. It's got just like
Speaker 3: in films, don't you normally get the sort of anti
Speaker 3: climax or the post climax is probably the right phrases
Speaker 3: in it, where you know, everyone goes back home, there
Speaker 3: are meadows there. Am I thinking of order of the rings,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But it's the very seventies thing they get in quickly.
Speaker 1: I mean Starars doesn't get actually Stars does getting pretty
Speaker 1: quickly because Dark Vader, the villain is in like pretty
Speaker 1: much not the first scene, but the first sequence, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's it's funny because Jaws, which I watched recently,
Speaker 1: silly Paquala, Jaws doesn't appear that the villain doesn't appear
Speaker 1: to like an hour in that Colonel Kurtz, which I
Speaker 1: did with Dy Singer, he doesn't appeared till like the end,
Speaker 1: is a shadow that looms over the story. That they
Speaker 1: don't do that with Databa. They do the opposite. Luke
Speaker 1: Skywalker doesn't appear until about twenty minutes.
Speaker 3: And you don't even know if it looks significant. I found, Yeah,
Speaker 3: well did I do because everyone talks about this Skywalkers,
Speaker 3: which by the way, complicates it as a first feeling
Speaker 3: because it's so hard not to have picked up just
Speaker 3: the cultural references. Yes, you can't come to this clean.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to. I want to ask you about that.
Speaker 1: The point I was I was also going to make
Speaker 1: was the seventies. They just get out of Jaws again Jaws,
Speaker 1: they kill the shark and then they swim home on
Speaker 1: like a paddle, two of them, and there's there's that.
Speaker 1: There's no welcome home ceremonial, there's not like with the wife, Ah,
Speaker 1: I'm alive. There's none of that. They just get out.
Speaker 3: So what's that? Is that an eighties thing?
Speaker 1: I think it's probably a budget thing. I think it's
Speaker 1: it's Yeah, I suspect this. It's largely to do with budget,
Speaker 1: to be honest.
Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, that problem because for its time, I imagine
Speaker 3: it was quite a big budget film.
Speaker 1: It was, but they did spend a lot of the money.
Speaker 1: They went over budget. Yeah. So, in fact, famously, I
Speaker 1: think the second film, Empire Strikes Back, they George Money
Speaker 1: actually paid for it himself because this was such a
Speaker 1: massive hit, because he got the sequel rights and the
Speaker 1: merchant more important than the merchandise right, which they which
Speaker 1: they because they didn't have faith. The one executive at
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Sorry Fox, had faith in it, Alan Ladd Jr.
Speaker 1: And he had more faith in George Lucas than even
Speaker 1: Star Wars as an idea.
Speaker 3: Right, So that's interesting.
Speaker 1: So he got the sequel rights and then he thought, well,
Speaker 1: they may not make it if it's not if it
Speaker 1: doesn't work, they're not gonna make sequels. I'll get the
Speaker 1: merchandise right, and they gave it to him. And the
Speaker 1: merchandise rights have made are worth double than the films.
Speaker 3: It would have to be one of the most lucrative
Speaker 3: merchandising things in history, I feel.
Speaker 1: And one of the criticism of Star Wars going forward
Speaker 1: after Stars is that George Lucas at times was protecting
Speaker 1: the toy Empire right over the.
Speaker 3: Actual houseover introducing characters.
Speaker 1: Well, there was an idea that Han Solo might be
Speaker 1: killed off in Empire Strikes Back, and you believe it
Speaker 1: might affect toy sales. Introducing characters like jar Jubbins I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've heard of and yeah, so.
Speaker 3: That's I say. Anyway, first viewing, Yeah, I got to
Speaker 3: the end, and I wasn't underwhelmed. I was just, oh,
Speaker 3: this is from a very different time where that was enough. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was my initial response. Interestingly, when I watched it
Speaker 3: the second time, I didn't feel that at all. I
Speaker 3: felt this is cool, right. I don't know why it
Speaker 3: was different in that way. The other thing is, the
Speaker 3: first time I watched it, it felt really really slow. Yeah,
Speaker 3: But the second time I watched it, having thought that
Speaker 3: it was really really slow, it wasn't that slow at all.
Speaker 3: Like I seem to remember that the first half hour
Speaker 3: had no dialogue, which is not true. Actually there's quite
Speaker 3: a bit. I get a lot of it's between droids,
Speaker 3: but it's there, and it does move along like it's
Speaker 3: it's not breakneck.
Speaker 1: But it knows a lot, and the dialogue's clunky, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it's kind of weird how it comes out of
Speaker 1: people's mouths, and the timing of it is kind of weird.
Speaker 1: As a point where Darth Vader kind of says, I've
Speaker 1: had a feeling of it, you know, there's a feeling
Speaker 1: I haven't felt for a long time, and then it
Speaker 1: kind of like but then he like turns straight away.
Speaker 1: It's obviously been voiced later by James L. Giants. So
Speaker 1: you've got David Prowse in the suit, who's just you know,
Speaker 1: bumbling about and yeah, so the dialogue's the dialogue is
Speaker 1: not great. We can get to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But there's something it's very hard to know when
Speaker 3: you're coming to a film that's this huge and you
Speaker 3: haven't seen it before. How much is the result of
Speaker 3: your cultural assumptions about it that you've brought in, how
Speaker 3: much you're projecting back as opposed to just watching it
Speaker 3: in the moment. But I can I got the sense
Speaker 3: that apart from anything else, this is a magnificent esthetic.
Speaker 3: So in a way, it's just a Goods and Baudi film,
Speaker 3: And it's just an action film. And I don't know
Speaker 3: how much action stuff had happened before this or not,
Speaker 3: but the fact that it's in space, that the scale
Speaker 3: of it, and the coolness of the lightsabers and the
Speaker 3: bullets that get all the lasers that get fired out
Speaker 3: and what do they called deflector shields, which I've never
Speaker 3: really saw. But I got the point of yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: Like even just that simple move of taking an action
Speaker 3: film and chucking it in space with hyperspace and all
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. Even that move is enough, Like
Speaker 3: I sort of get that, but I think I'm saying
Speaker 3: it's enough because I'm imagining myself in what was it,
Speaker 3: seventy seven? Yeah, imagine myself back then what that would
Speaker 3: have been like. And it must have been mind blowing,
Speaker 3: because I don't.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine? Like so up until all the all
Speaker 1: the fi films up until then, they were pretty like
Speaker 1: a lot of them were bleak. It was two thousand
Speaker 1: and one. If you look in the seventies, solaris a
Speaker 1: clockwork orange like Death Race, Planet of the Apes.
Speaker 3: So there were think pieces, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's like some stocks like The Invasion
Speaker 1: of the Body Snatches, you know, and so you had
Speaker 1: these kind of like either darker or very kind of
Speaker 1: high brow or schlucky, you know, sci fi films. And
Speaker 1: Star Wars isn't a sci fi film. Really, it's a
Speaker 1: space fantasy. It's a space opera.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I think there's a difference. And you know, the seventies, obviously,
Speaker 1: this is the seventy seven, the Vietnam War. You got
Speaker 1: your Nixon. There had been like an assassination a tent
Speaker 1: on Nixon, and there's all this stuff going on, and
Speaker 1: I think Star Wars just came along at the point
Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, this has come at exactly the
Speaker 1: right time, and it's like nothing we have seen before.
Speaker 1: I remember I always growing up, I assumed I saw
Speaker 1: it at the cinema. I just assumed I saw it.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I was in my like like
Speaker 1: teens where I thought I did the sums. So I
Speaker 1: didn't go to Greensboro twin when I was two. That
Speaker 1: never happened. And then I kind of really started to
Speaker 1: think about it. And my cousin Paula, who used to
Speaker 1: babysit us, she's, you know, I was old enough to
Speaker 1: do that. She's to bring a VHS over of Star
Speaker 1: Wars and it's like, we, look, that's all we did.
Speaker 1: She would come over with what Star Wars?
Speaker 3: How would we?
Speaker 1: I reckon. I would have been about seven or eight.
Speaker 3: So that's probably the perfect age for it, right, Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because I think you're right to point out before that
Speaker 3: it's effectively a kids film because for me, the bits
Speaker 3: where I go hang on what are where you ask
Speaker 3: higher order adult questions about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Right, So I still don't know really what the Empire's
Speaker 3: motivation is, well, I know it's evil because I'm told
Speaker 3: that from the start. Isn't that's made clear?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess it's really it's and
Speaker 1: I've never really questioned it either. Actually it's they're bad
Speaker 1: guys who want the power. I guess, you know, sure
Speaker 1: to what.
Speaker 3: I don't know what they're I don't know what they're after.
Speaker 3: I don't even really know what the rebels are after. Like,
Speaker 3: why is the Empire so evil? Apart from the fact
Speaker 3: that they're fighting the rebels and they wear black and
Speaker 3: the storm and the rebels have this sort of white
Speaker 3: or whatever, Like, I get the goody baddie thing is
Speaker 3: made clear, but I don't know why. Why am I
Speaker 3: cheering on them? Maybe I don't like their revolution. I
Speaker 3: don't know what political principles they're fighting for. No idea, right, So,
Speaker 3: I mean, you get the idea that the Empire wants control.
Speaker 1: They're trying to control when they end the Jedi. But
Speaker 1: you're right, why do they want.
Speaker 3: I don't none of that's it's just but I feel like,
Speaker 3: actually that's only recently become the kind of thing that
Speaker 3: you would worry about. Maybe it's more in TV Evans
Speaker 3: in it, but like, I feel like we're in an
Speaker 3: age now of a bit more anti heroes and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, where goodies and baddies are a bit closer
Speaker 3: together and the bad guys are off in the heroes.
Speaker 3: I don't know if Breaking Bad as an example that
Speaker 3: might illustrate that, or certainly films like The Joker, you know,
Speaker 3: he's kind of the hero, like that anti hero thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Suicide Squad, Like you're seeing a lot more of that
Speaker 3: House of Cards, is it well?
Speaker 1: And then the recent trilogy kind of wrestles with that,
Speaker 1: you know, with a character who's torn between good and bad,
Speaker 1: which is quite interesting that this is it looks firmly Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the good guys. You never imagined him turning,
Speaker 1: even though apparently there were ideas that, you know, I
Speaker 1: think in at the end of Jedi, I think he
Speaker 1: was going to put Darth Vader's helmet on and say
Speaker 1: and now I'm now I'm Vader, which.
Speaker 3: Which, well, that would have been controversy.
Speaker 1: It would have been controversial and silly.
Speaker 3: To be honest, Well, I'm desperate for to take Darth
Speaker 3: Vader's helmet off. I'm like, I wonder who's under there?
Speaker 3: This was like, and I think some of this might
Speaker 3: be coming. I don't know. I don't even know the
Speaker 3: order of the films. I couldn't tell you.
Speaker 1: If so, you've got empire strikes.
Speaker 3: That has to be too, right, because they've just suffered
Speaker 3: a defeat, so they have to strike back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to strike back, and then then the
Speaker 1: return of.
Speaker 3: The The other thing I didn't get is why aren't
Speaker 3: the rebels in charge? If there? So you know how
Speaker 3: Darth Vader is surrounded by all these four skeptics, right,
Speaker 3: this is the ancient.
Speaker 1: That's what's really interesting when you watch Star Wars back
Speaker 1: realizing because you're going to grow up thinking, oh, Darth
Speaker 1: Vader is the boss. You know, you're just kind of
Speaker 1: like watch it as a kid, and then you know,
Speaker 1: and your memory kind of then you know, between viewings
Speaker 1: between cousin Paula coming over and putting it on for you,
Speaker 1: Dartbat is the boss, and then you're going to go, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: he's kind of like he's got some other like minor
Speaker 1: general giving him ship about his That's true. Why would
Speaker 1: you be as a dumb ass move?
Speaker 3: It was strange, Yeah, until he strangles but yeah, so,
Speaker 3: but it's interesting. So clearly the Empire doesn't like reckon
Speaker 3: with or care about the Force.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like Data Vader in Star Wars is
Speaker 1: like three.
Speaker 3: Ic yes, so well no, see I didn't feel that.
Speaker 3: But when you say that, I know what you mean
Speaker 3: now because he's constantly Yeah, there's there's the guy with
Speaker 3: the thin face who kind.
Speaker 1: Of sliced tomato. Yeah, Peter Cushing, grandma taken.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right so he Yeah. I don't know any of
Speaker 3: these people's names. By the way, none of them ever
Speaker 3: seemed to be.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I mean I've spoken about how much
Speaker 1: I love Star Wars. I'm very much on the record,
Speaker 1: you know how I much I adore it. I was
Speaker 1: never one to know all the characters' names, and I
Speaker 1: collected all the figures. But they were like, there are
Speaker 1: people who know the world way more like Star Wars.
Speaker 1: Let's call them, you know, Star Wars nerds who just
Speaker 1: like live every detail, know the backstory. Because there's the
Speaker 1: comics and the books that are also available. I've never
Speaker 1: really delved into them. I haven't really watched any of
Speaker 1: the animated stuff, the Clone Wars, and but.
Speaker 3: The movie doesn't really do much of a job of
Speaker 3: explaining that, Like it's it's the focus is so much
Speaker 3: on here are these characters trying to beat these characters,
Speaker 3: and here's a bit about an action scene, and like
Speaker 3: it's so there's so much space in it that's not
Speaker 3: cluttered with detail. Yeah, and so I don't know who
Speaker 3: any of these people are. I get the gist of
Speaker 3: who they are. I know, he's kind of a boss
Speaker 3: of something, and he does strategy and he's whatever. And
Speaker 3: well that's clearly going to be a fatal mistake, and
Speaker 3: so I get I got that. But there's no backstory
Speaker 3: to really any of the characters. Like Han Solo, I
Speaker 3: gather as just a mercenary who flies. He's the only
Speaker 3: bit of character development. Really. I suppose you could say
Speaker 3: Luke becoming the.
Speaker 1: Look yeah, I mean, look yeah, the whole idea of
Speaker 1: and that's a power of Luke Skywalker's stories. You seem
Speaker 1: as a farm boy just wanting to get out. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: Skywicker probably listens to the Springsteen. He wants is to
Speaker 1: get out of there and see the world. And that's
Speaker 1: I think really powerful and really relatable. The characters are
Speaker 1: all so clearly defined.
Speaker 3: Yes, you got these they are what they are, Yeah.
Speaker 1: They are. It's the farm boy who's got you know,
Speaker 1: he's dreaming big. You've got the princess, You've got the charismatics,
Speaker 1: you know, Smuggler in hahn Chow Easy Psyche, You've got
Speaker 1: the comedic relief in the R two and three po
Speaker 1: and you've got the badd in down Vader.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Darth Vader's too short. I want him to be bigger.
Speaker 3: I've noticed throughout that he's filmed from below quite a lot,
Speaker 3: which I think is meant to aid that. But there
Speaker 3: are all those moments, you know, the scenes where he
Speaker 3: turns away and he walks off and someone's following him, like, dude,
Speaker 3: you're too short.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because he shouldn't because he's payed by David Prowse,
Speaker 1: who's like this bodybuilder who's actually can be seen in
Speaker 1: a clockwork orange and so. But you're right. And in fact,
Speaker 1: there was a there was a zigging around on YouTube
Speaker 1: last night and I saw something I hadn't seen. I
Speaker 1: think it's only been on there for maybe a year,
Speaker 1: and it's the scene somebody has gone in and some
Speaker 1: of the Star Wars fans have done incredible, like you know,
Speaker 1: fan films and this trailers for like you know Obi films,
Speaker 1: like and you think, oh wow, this is actually a
Speaker 1: trailer and I'm where they got this vision from. But
Speaker 1: it looks like this is the one. There's a Canobi
Speaker 1: one in particularly. I think it's been done recently because
Speaker 1: Disney are doing the TV series and I actually thought
Speaker 1: it was the official trailer. But what they've done is
Speaker 1: taken the Dart Vader and Obi Wan kind of final
Speaker 1: duel and made it like a proper action sequence and
Speaker 1: it looks incredible extra vision, no using extra vision, using
Speaker 1: I don't know how they've done. It includes shooting more
Speaker 1: staff and you can tell like that's obviously not there
Speaker 1: and all that, but it is, and you do wonder
Speaker 1: like that's you know, when I was a kid who
Speaker 1: didn't bother me, but now knowing what we can do
Speaker 1: and what we've seen other in kind of action films,
Speaker 1: it would have been great if that was you know,
Speaker 1: and even in other Star Wars films, you know, you
Speaker 1: know the lightsaber jewels get better and better. Yeah, to
Speaker 1: have that moment where we could see Obi Wan at
Speaker 1: his you know, he's not necessarily his peak, but the
Speaker 1: show what the old man can still do. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then knowing it would make his sacrifice even more than
Speaker 1: you know, Like so it's not like, Okay, I can't
Speaker 1: take this guy. It's like the sweetest scene that you
Speaker 1: know he can. He can go toe to toe with
Speaker 1: the Vader, but he's going to actually sacrifice himself.
Speaker 3: So this was Obi One's my favorite character in the film,
Speaker 3: which I suspect is a function of when I'm watching
Speaker 3: it as a kid. I'm sure he wouldn't be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's love for Obi Wan. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: whether he's he's the whole film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Like without him, none of this happens. I
Speaker 3: don't quite what happened. Does he come back? Maybe you
Speaker 3: shouldn't tell me, But what happens? Is he gone now?
Speaker 3: Is he just like this voice in Luke's head, that's
Speaker 3: what like he because he says he becomes more powerful
Speaker 3: in death. Is he dead? Or did he just pull
Speaker 3: some Jedi move?
Speaker 1: There's a there's a thing you'll learn about the Star
Speaker 1: Wars universe as you move through it, and I sincerely
Speaker 1: hope you do because the next one's actually cracking.
Speaker 3: Am I coming back in a year for that?
Speaker 1: Yes, there's such a thing as a force ghost. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he's become a first one's ever really truly dead.
Speaker 1: With that said, With that said, he is for all
Speaker 1: intentsive purposes dead.
Speaker 3: But he says he's more powerful when he's dead. Vata
Speaker 3: presumably should know what that means.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always thought that really was it was not necessarily.
Speaker 1: I always took that as more so the movement, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well so I thought in a symbolic way, yes,
Speaker 3: But then he's guiding Luke through the whole thing. Now
Speaker 3: I assume that wasn't just Luke remembering said. I assume
Speaker 3: that's over one being active and present in the moment,
Speaker 3: saying do this now, and do this now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jedi have really good bluetooth and yes, yeah, so
Speaker 1: that is Jedi's can they do live on right, but
Speaker 1: not in a way where they really impact. It's more.
Speaker 3: Form after Yeah, okay, so that makes sense. But I
Speaker 3: think there's something about that moment though, which makes it
Speaker 3: like evocative where Darth Vader strikes him and he's just gone.
Speaker 3: He's not there at all. It's not there's no dead body,
Speaker 3: he's just disappeared. So that makes me wonder what exactly
Speaker 3: is he dead? Because it felt like he pulled a
Speaker 3: magic trick yeah, and just disappeared and Vader didn't actually
Speaker 3: strike anything. That's kind of how it feels to me.
Speaker 1: Well, there was there was one of the recent movies
Speaker 1: where a similar thing happened with one of the characters,
Speaker 1: and and so there was like a year long debate
Speaker 1: of like, was he is he dead?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yes, I remember. I don't remember the character or
Speaker 3: but I remember that debate because I remember you freaking
Speaker 3: out about it when one of the trailers was released
Speaker 3: or something. I don't know. We were on set and
Speaker 3: rehearsal some time and something happened and I'm like, I
Speaker 3: don't know what you're talking about, but I gather it's
Speaker 3: a big deal. Now I get a sense of what
Speaker 3: it might be.
Speaker 1: So sorry.
Speaker 3: What I was trying to make, which I got sidetracked,
Speaker 3: is the Empire doesn't seem to believe in the Force
Speaker 3: apart from Darth Vader. Yes, and Darth Vader says the
Speaker 3: Force is more powerful than this death Star, so it's
Speaker 3: clearly really really powerful thing. The Rebel Alliance seemed to
Speaker 3: have the Force. My evidence for this is that when
Speaker 3: they're showing the plans of the Death Star, and they're saying,
Speaker 3: this is what we're going to do. When the pilots
Speaker 3: go and do it, they say, may the Force be
Speaker 3: with you. Clearly they believe in the Force and they
Speaker 3: think that people can use it.
Speaker 1: Well, not everyone can use the Force, but it must.
Speaker 3: Be active enough amongst rebel alliance circles for it to
Speaker 3: be a thing that they would refer to.
Speaker 1: Well. And again there'll be Star Wars fans maybe listening,
Speaker 1: yelling and Yasney podcast at gmail dot com. There are
Speaker 1: moments in the Star Wars saga where Jedis are light
Speaker 1: on the ground, right, you know, gathers. There's not like
Speaker 1: there's not many of them, so they were in the
Speaker 1: Prequels's quite a lot of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they get whittled down and.
Speaker 1: They get riddled down. And so that's why Luke becomes
Speaker 1: such an important figure.
Speaker 3: So that I get and I get he's probably the
Speaker 3: best at the Force.
Speaker 1: And at the moment he doesn't know, he hasn't know
Speaker 1: any of this. He's training, you know. Obviously Ben ben
Speaker 1: Kenobi has told him, one has told him, you know,
Speaker 1: you have the force, and and.
Speaker 3: He gets it, gets it quick by the way, he
Speaker 3: gets it.
Speaker 1: Really quick and he really gets over Uncle Owen death
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Not a single tear, not a single tier.
Speaker 3: I think he just goes. He goes, Oh, I guess
Speaker 3: I better go to whatever it's called.
Speaker 1: It's like there's not like he's not even doing out
Speaker 1: of revenge. Is I'm going to find the people.
Speaker 3: Who did this? And it's like, no, something to do.
Speaker 3: I get to leave now, I don't do farming the harvest. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that is quite straight. It is kind of in a way.
Speaker 3: It's an emotionally stunk film.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's just that's what I mean that the clunky dialogue.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they get out at weird points and there's not
Speaker 1: there's not, there's not. It doesn't. There are times where
Speaker 1: you can absolutely feel emotion during a Star Wars film
Speaker 1: and over the over all the films and and but
Speaker 1: I reckon a big part of that is the music, to.
Speaker 3: Be honest, like it's an exquisite score.
Speaker 1: Ah, so where do you? Where would you? And obviously
Speaker 1: start you're just coming to Star Wars. But I wonder
Speaker 1: when I think about John Williams, he's so good like
Speaker 1: is he is he as good as is he a
Speaker 1: Beethoven going to be that.
Speaker 3: Good in the film world. I think he is. I mean, well,
Speaker 3: I see, if you talk to a musician, it's like,
Speaker 3: don't don't talk about beta. Like I had a conversation
Speaker 3: with musician recently who said, it's fine to study Beethoven
Speaker 3: and see what he did, but only for the sake
Speaker 3: of studying it. You can not use it because only
Speaker 3: Beethoven can do that. So when you get to that
Speaker 3: technical level, Diego Maradona, Yeah, yeah, it's that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, this is not for you.
Speaker 1: This is you have to have the force and you're
Speaker 1: playing a flute, so.
Speaker 3: Gonna not gonna do that. But he is incredible. So
Speaker 3: that whole era of film he was just scoring everything.
Speaker 3: It felt like to me, do Superman.
Speaker 1: I think it did. Jaws is the other one where
Speaker 1: he did, like created music, and he did.
Speaker 3: The Olympic stuff. And I remember that because when I
Speaker 3: was at high school and I was learning saxophone and
Speaker 3: I was in like symphonic bands and whatever, we played
Speaker 3: that and it was all the John Williams kind of thing.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, obviously I don't know a
Speaker 3: lot about who's scored what and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3: But maybe that's actually a good test because if I
Speaker 3: know about it, then there must be a big deal.
Speaker 3: He's the only one where it's almost like he is
Speaker 3: a bigger figure in the film as the director the stars.
Speaker 3: It's especially with superhero type staff. There is something majestic
Speaker 3: but not overblown. It's it's heroic but not bombastic. There's
Speaker 3: just something perfect about the way he pictures his scores
Speaker 3: is amazing.
Speaker 1: I think it's not just you know, the theme that
Speaker 1: we you know, it's the Star Wars thing that we heard.
Speaker 1: It's like Darta Vader has his own theme and the
Speaker 1: theme that you here and tato wine. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just it's exquisite. And I think so much of this
Speaker 1: film came together. I mean they all thought it was
Speaker 1: shit out and I'm making it. Nobody had faith in it,
Speaker 1: you know, like the crew crew would stop working at
Speaker 1: five thirty and not put the extra refort in because
Speaker 1: I I thought, this is this is gonna be embarrassing
Speaker 1: work on. The actors were like, you know, I used
Speaker 1: to say, you can type this this dialogue, George, but
Speaker 1: you can't. You can't say.
Speaker 3: It like so, And they're probably right, aren't.
Speaker 1: They it's it's pretty clunky dial. There's not a lot
Speaker 1: of great lines in Star Wars, and a lot of
Speaker 1: the lines that are great are actually kind of improvised.
Speaker 1: You know. There's the running joke that appears a lot.
Speaker 1: I've got a bad feeling about this, but it's not
Speaker 1: a necessarily great line. It just it just they say
Speaker 1: it quite often.
Speaker 3: When yeah, it's a trope.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know. The greatest line is one of the
Speaker 1: greatest lines is in Empire Strikes Back when princes Layer
Speaker 1: says too Hahn, I love you, and he says, I know.
Speaker 1: And that was improvised by so there, I.
Speaker 3: Saw you, so you spoiled that. I thought that she
Speaker 3: was giving a calm the cold shoulder. I thought she
Speaker 3: was keen on Luke. What this?
Speaker 1: What this? This is what I thought when I first
Speaker 1: watch Star Wars. And I can't tell you what's I
Speaker 1: don't want to tell you what's ahead of you. But
Speaker 1: it's like you look back at that conversation and it's
Speaker 1: deeply strange and weird, you know. And I'm not sure
Speaker 1: why George Lugals was point that was was pushing nudging
Speaker 1: Luke in that direction.
Speaker 3: Well, maybe it's moral, Maybe he decided how is Luke
Speaker 3: I actually know Luke.
Speaker 1: It's a good point.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're not on Earth.
Speaker 1: It doesn't really won't matter. I know that Laya well.
Speaker 1: Carrie Fisher was I think nineteen when they shot it
Speaker 1: in Harrison FORDUS thirty three, so forting year different. I
Speaker 1: think Mark was certainly closer to I think it might
Speaker 1: have been like twenty two or twenty three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, But Luke doesn't have an age.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's space.
Speaker 3: It's a coming of age moment for him. He's that
Speaker 3: sort of age, whatever age that is on whatever planet
Speaker 3: is from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that. So Mark Hamill was that age. Luke
Speaker 1: has probably pitched it, probably being closer to eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, So just go about your explanation for the
Speaker 3: fact that despite the Rebel Alliance having the Force and
Speaker 3: the Empire not, and the Force being more powerful than
Speaker 3: the Deesta. So my question is, so why they hell
Speaker 3: not the rebels in charge because they've got access to
Speaker 3: this thing that's more powerful than anything empire has. Your
Speaker 3: explanation is there aren't many people who know to use it? Yes,
Speaker 3: don't you just need one?
Speaker 1: Well, I think this film indicates that might be the case,
Speaker 1: but I think, as you like Jedis do get beaten occasionally,
Speaker 1: so it's not it's not all conquering.
Speaker 3: Right, And I'm assuming from watching this film the Darth
Speaker 3: Fate is actually better at using the force than anybody else.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, at this stage.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's how it feels to me.
Speaker 1: Yes, at this stage.
Speaker 3: There's Luke probably really is, but he hasn't fully expressed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there is a character who I'm trying to
Speaker 1: remember if he's referred to, and I'm not sure he is.
Speaker 1: But the Emperor who you'll meet the Empire strikes back.
Speaker 3: The other thing is where was Yoda? By the way,
Speaker 3: while we're talking about.
Speaker 1: It, that's the next one.
Speaker 3: Very disappointed.
Speaker 1: That's the next one.
Speaker 3: I was ready for. All the weird syntax.
Speaker 1: Is there is there a movie that you don't have
Speaker 1: to have seen to know so much about it? Like
Speaker 1: you said, you come through this, we've already with so much.
Speaker 3: A lot of it's formed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like do you did you know what a storn
Speaker 1: triper looked like?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: You are two D two and three two backer, Yep,
Speaker 1: you do looks go on you a hat? You know? Yoda?
Speaker 1: Did you know what the Millennium Falcon gonna look like.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have put the name to the image. But
Speaker 3: I know both those things. The Death Star, Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: just like, do you know that? Said? I was still
Speaker 3: a little surprised when they blew up the Death Start. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: And I still actually remember a moment. It was before
Speaker 3: I watched any of this. It came up at work,
Speaker 3: I think, where someone said, oh, it's like when they
Speaker 3: blow up the Death Start, and I went, they blew
Speaker 3: up the Death Start.
Speaker 1: I don't know why.
Speaker 3: I just kind of assume the Death Star was just
Speaker 3: a constant character throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I have quite a few Star Wars T shirts. I
Speaker 1: don't wear him as us anymore. My wife looks at
Speaker 1: me weirdly. I do because I'm a forty five year
Speaker 1: old man. But my favorite one was, well I got
Speaker 1: reason me recently. It's a storm tripper looking a bit sullen.
Speaker 1: He's got his head down. Yeah, and it's like I
Speaker 1: had friends on that Death Star.
Speaker 3: That's great. Where was the storm Trooper? By the way,
Speaker 3: He's on another mission the measure.
Speaker 1: The one of the funny lines that I thought I
Speaker 1: never really picked it up before was when the they're
Speaker 1: at Luke and the and obi Wan have found the
Speaker 1: jah Wars Sam crawl and has been sabotaged by the Stormtroopers,
Speaker 1: and obi Wan says, this isn't the trap. The jah
Speaker 1: Wars didn't do this. This must be the Stormtroopers because
Speaker 1: only Imperial Stormtroopers could be this precise. Now did you
Speaker 1: see that? Did you notice how shitty a name the
Speaker 1: Stormtroopers have as far as like shooting and like.
Speaker 3: Yes, I wanted to ask you this. Why does no
Speaker 3: one ever.
Speaker 1: Hit the only the only one that hits is the
Speaker 1: stun gun when the storm Tripper has a stun gun
Speaker 1: on late, I mean, Luke and the Rebels take out
Speaker 1: some Stormtroopers, and early on the storm Troopers take out
Speaker 1: some of the other rebels that the ones the extras,
Speaker 1: but jeez, they their crab. They shipped the bed a lot.
Speaker 3: They do, which gives me back to my original question,
Speaker 3: how the hell is the Empire in charge? What does
Speaker 3: it have going for it?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm watching this and I got to say that
Speaker 1: first scene where Darth vaight like this is what I
Speaker 1: got me hooked them in the Star Wars that first
Speaker 1: scene and we spoke about John Williams. The other one
Speaker 1: is Ben Bert who put the sound design together. It
Speaker 1: is incredible what he did. That scene where Darth Vader
Speaker 1: first appears and that breathing. Yeah, I actually I remember
Speaker 1: watching that as a kid and I just stopped breathing
Speaker 1: for a little while. Wow, it was chilling.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a really brilliantly conceived character. Like everything about him,
Speaker 3: apart from his height, is right, Like you can't stop
Speaker 3: looking at him. Yeah, it's a bit like the Batman thing.
Speaker 3: There's something about just the esthetic. Black is a great
Speaker 3: color for that. Yeah, that's one of the other great
Speaker 3: things about Batman is he's black, but he's the hero
Speaker 3: and that shows it that sort of it points to
Speaker 3: the complexity of it, right that you want to see
Speaker 3: every time he's on the screen. I want to say,
Speaker 3: I want him to be here, right, He's never a
Speaker 3: villain where you go, oh god, no, you just you
Speaker 3: want him to be there. Yeah, And if if he
Speaker 3: were to die, I would be disappointed, which is you know,
Speaker 3: that's a great setup for him, right. So yeah, but
Speaker 3: his voice James or Jones obviously.
Speaker 1: They considered awesome wells, but they did they were Yeah,
Speaker 1: they thought his voice would be too recognizable, and they
Speaker 1: thought they didn't want him to be. It's funny that
Speaker 1: because you think James or James his voice whatever, James
Speaker 1: Jones's voices, like it's like King All Star Wars.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. I was surprised with how quickly he spoke, though, so.
Speaker 1: Whenever before, I feel like they were they had to
Speaker 1: fit in with whatever that was there, with what David
Speaker 1: Prows had kind of given them, under the direction of
Speaker 1: George Lucas obviously.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I felt like there were Darth Vader always
Speaker 3: seems to have his answer ready to go, and he
Speaker 3: just says it and walks on. Yeah, that's his he
Speaker 3: drops the mic, that's what he does.
Speaker 1: I feel like he walked up sometimes before he's finished.
Speaker 1: So James all James is like Jesus could have given
Speaker 1: me a little bit more time.
Speaker 3: But do you know what it does? It gives you
Speaker 3: the sense that Darth Vader is incredibly smart, so he's
Speaker 3: never thinking he's already like as soon as he hears something,
Speaker 3: it's like the plans must be in this escape pods
Speaker 3: like oh geez, all right, yeah he's got to that quickly.
Speaker 3: But I guess I don't know if he's deliberate or not.
Speaker 3: But it's like, oh wow, Death's formidable, Like he's you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: he's in charge, he knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1: He's got to ship together. Yeah, maybe he's going to
Speaker 1: get a promotion soon. He might maybe. So let's take
Speaker 1: it through the ben Bert influence on Star Wars. So
Speaker 1: it's how he came across some of the sounds that
Speaker 1: have become so iconic. So the Chewerbacker's voice, it's a
Speaker 1: combination of bear Line, Warris and Badger vocalizations. Wow, some
Speaker 1: of which I believe we're dying.
Speaker 3: So vocalization. So there's an actual recording.
Speaker 1: I think you get They got a Worris in the studio,
Speaker 1: just lay down a few tracks. Wris.
Speaker 3: No, let's try again, just a bit more.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that got sound designers, which I
Speaker 1: never really thought of growing up until you got to
Speaker 1: an age where it's like, oh no, this is what
Speaker 1: they actually do for a living. They go out like
Speaker 1: on location and film stuff with.
Speaker 3: Their Yeah, so how do you do the lion?
Speaker 1: Uh probably went to a zoo, I imagine, I hope.
Speaker 1: So he was actually the fifth sound designer. He was
Speaker 1: the one who got the line which when he got
Speaker 1: the job, his voice was made using loops on a
Speaker 1: syn synthesizer match with beeps and boops modeled after Baby
Speaker 1: Coops performed by Bert himself.
Speaker 3: That's brilliant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really Look that noise is so good, Like
Speaker 1: there's a language going on there, Like you feel like
Speaker 1: you understand what ARTI's saying. Yeah all the time, Yeah
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: But you know what's interesting. So this is where the
Speaker 3: chronology of it matters, right, I don't even think twice
Speaker 3: about that. So that's our two G two's noise. It's
Speaker 3: it's going to be pretty easy to you just dial
Speaker 3: that up on garage band or something. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 3: you forget, you've got to go back to seventy seven.
Speaker 3: It's like when you do it with music, right, you
Speaker 3: listen to a Sergeant Peppers or something, and it's like
Speaker 3: it's only when you think about the creation of that
Speaker 3: sound in that moment that you realize what's gone on.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a great thing about doing this podcast. It's
Speaker 1: come up a bit where you're going to go, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the tropes that we know of now get set
Speaker 1: at some point by iconic films.
Speaker 3: In the past. So funny you say that because I
Speaker 3: feel like this is because I was talking to my
Speaker 3: daughter about this, because she watched Star Wars with her
Speaker 3: friends sometime and she just said it just felt really
Speaker 3: tropy and then she and then I was probably thought
Speaker 3: was maybe because when it did it, it wasn't a trope.
Speaker 3: Now I didn't see it as trophy. Although now that
Speaker 3: I think back and your point to some of the lines,
Speaker 3: you go, yeah, it probably is. But I wonder if
Speaker 3: that's what happened with Star Wars, in which case, how
Speaker 3: do Iconic feel was not suffer from that? Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: from the fact of them being I think you.
Speaker 1: Have to go in with that in mind, Like there
Speaker 1: should be an announcement at the start of the film
Speaker 1: saying this was the first film to do this.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those tropes you think are hacky, Yeah, it all
Speaker 1: begins here.
Speaker 3: There are no cliches in this film.
Speaker 1: Yes, darve Vader's infamous breathing was recorded by putting a
Speaker 1: microphone inside a regulator on a scuba tank. Wow. The
Speaker 1: Tuscan raider Yow is a mixture of mule sounds and
Speaker 1: people imitating mule sounds, and another thing I know I'm
Speaker 1: reading obviously this because I printed this out so I
Speaker 1: would get it right. But also I know the Tuscan Raider,
Speaker 1: which I remember as they used to freak me out
Speaker 1: as almost as much as Darth Vader when they appear
Speaker 1: and they're like overlook when he's got the binoculars out
Speaker 1: and he appears standing over Luke and he's like, ah.
Speaker 1: The stuntman who was there, who was doing it was
Speaker 1: getting so hot he could only like he was basically
Speaker 1: I just wanted out, and he just he did one
Speaker 1: up in the air with his with his weapon, and
Speaker 1: they liked it. But that's all he did, and so
Speaker 1: they just looped it. So it's just like ut down
Speaker 1: up and down, up and down, which actually looks so good,
Speaker 1: like it's the same if you just as the one.
Speaker 3: But I do like, I've got to go back and
Speaker 3: watch that now because now that I think about it,
Speaker 3: it did look a bit like that, and it's the
Speaker 3: kind of thing I can imagine seeing on the Goodies
Speaker 3: or something. It's cut together.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's also the other things because the production
Speaker 1: was it was particularly not in not Tuscany, tis Tunisia.
Speaker 1: It was so hot and everyone's wearing these costumes and outfits.
Speaker 1: R two D two apparently wouldn't work properly, Like.
Speaker 3: Does AR two D two work?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's a real thing. It's a real thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so's somebody I think, Uh, it's not Worrick Davis.
Speaker 1: I forget the Kenny Baker is in a person as
Speaker 1: a person. How big is he's big? Well, that's the
Speaker 1: other thing. Is bigger than you think, clearly bigger than
Speaker 1: I thought. Growing up, I thought and I used to
Speaker 1: get a figure ene who was quite small with the
Speaker 1: figure out is a decent size. And there are sometimes
Speaker 1: in Star Wars movies where it's like it too looks
Speaker 1: particularly big in.
Speaker 3: The right that got the perspective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think of him as.
Speaker 3: Little like lost the size of a table.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's he's probably you know, about another quarter up
Speaker 1: from that refriend or a table that you can't see me,
Speaker 1: you know knows, don't even table looks like Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: he can be bigger than.
Speaker 3: You think with someone's inside and yeah, can you can
Speaker 3: you Baker?
Speaker 1: The lightsaber Wosh was made by the blending of the
Speaker 1: by blending the harm of an idle thirty five mil
Speaker 1: film projector and passing a slightly broken microphone cable by
Speaker 1: the tubes of an old television set.
Speaker 3: An elegant weapon.
Speaker 2: But I'm all civilized there.
Speaker 3: That is one of the most spectacularly obscure sound design
Speaker 3: things I've ever heard. How do you even think of
Speaker 3: doing that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I like it is it is. I
Speaker 1: guess you're just the one thing. Is it's one thing
Speaker 1: going out and recording animals?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, no, but hearing, I don't know how you.
Speaker 1: Hear, but I think but I think that's that's what
Speaker 1: makes a great sound design. It like they just hear
Speaker 1: things that they're always in the same way comedians always
Speaker 1: trying to think of jokes and trying to observe things.
Speaker 1: They are just listening to sounds the way that we
Speaker 1: did not take sound in.
Speaker 3: It must be a great way to live. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 3: you have an awareness of your environment like that. It's yeah,
Speaker 3: it would be amazing.
Speaker 1: And that's what I like. I you know, good, you know,
Speaker 1: like record producers would do. I imagine, you know, like
Speaker 1: whoever produces radio heads, you know, Tommy does it himself.
Speaker 1: Where he's going, Well, that sound, we can use that sound? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know Billy. I think Billy Eilish Billy Alis did
Speaker 1: it with one of her songs with the traffic lights
Speaker 1: in Sydney. I think was that the traffic lights that
Speaker 1: became a song? So yeah, so I think ben Bert
Speaker 1: needs a favorit of credit.
Speaker 3: So I have one question about the sound design. You
Speaker 3: know that scene where the stormtrooper bangs his head on
Speaker 3: look so good, Okay.
Speaker 1: Which I missed every time until it was pointed that
Speaker 1: to me many years after.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well so, well, obviously didn't miss it because I
Speaker 3: never really watched it, but unfortunately I knew it was there,
Speaker 3: so I was looking for it. And it's very funny.
Speaker 3: But is it deliberate?
Speaker 1: I don't think so. No, it's certainly never been sold
Speaker 1: that it was deliberate.
Speaker 3: So why did they keep it? Is this part? Is
Speaker 3: this from the same school as why is the dialogue crap?
Speaker 1: Well, it could have been that that's what they had,
Speaker 1: you know, that's do it again. It could have been
Speaker 1: that they shot that, you know for a while, that
Speaker 1: sequence of maybe the stormtroopers were spaced out kind of
Speaker 1: exactly where they and they kind of thought like, well,
Speaker 1: what one is They could have missed it themselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just like it's not the same as it is now where.
Speaker 3: It's becoming a thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and shooting on film is experience. They might have
Speaker 1: just thought they had that and for the lengths time
Speaker 1: that they went in or they thought let's leave it in.
Speaker 1: It's certainly not deliberate that they that it happened. Whether
Speaker 1: it's delibered they let me take it.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it must be because I remember this
Speaker 3: distinctly watching it. Just now you hear the clunk, so
Speaker 3: it's been put in the sound design.
Speaker 1: If you hear the clunk, then it's it is deliberate, right.
Speaker 3: But here is so the reason I asked that, And
Speaker 3: this is my only disappointment with having watched it the
Speaker 3: way I did, which was on the DVD you very
Speaker 3: generously lent me. Is the DVD you gave me? Is
Speaker 3: episode four a new hope it's not the nineteen seventy
Speaker 3: seven release of it, and the I don't know what's
Speaker 3: new and what because there's obviously new creatures that have
Speaker 3: been created, So I don't know if that bit of
Speaker 3: the sound design has been chucked.
Speaker 1: In because it's become interesting actually.
Speaker 3: So someone will know, yes, And I because I'm very
Speaker 3: I'm very much a traditionalist in everything I do. Like
Speaker 3: I still think footy should only be played in Victoria
Speaker 3: like a suburban grounds. That's I'm that a traditionalist. Part
Speaker 3: of me was like feeling that I was missing out
Speaker 3: on that that original version. What what was that original version?
Speaker 1: Yes? Can you? Yeah? And I'm not a big fan
Speaker 1: of the new scenes. I remember seeing it in the
Speaker 1: in the city at midnight when they re released it,
Speaker 1: being very excited and and then really tired and underwhelmed.
Speaker 1: It might have been the last I think the first
Speaker 1: and only midnight screening have ever been too.
Speaker 3: At least that's one you'd say a good night sleeper,
Speaker 3: make any sense.
Speaker 1: The biggest s they put in is the Jaba scene. Ja.
Speaker 3: So that was put in. I assume that Jabber was new,
Speaker 3: like to pick the image of him. Yeah, but I
Speaker 3: assume that scene was always that.
Speaker 1: No, so what was no? So that scene? This wasn't there?
Speaker 3: So it was the whole storyline of money.
Speaker 1: The story was still there. So Guido is still talks
Speaker 1: about yes, and we can discussed whe the hands shot first,
Speaker 1: and it's always that's a big debate.
Speaker 3: Ah, I didn't know the Guido shot at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you see on the wall there's like a he
Speaker 1: kind of misses. I think it's Hans left. There's a no.
Speaker 3: Question hand shot first. He was getting ready to shoot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was ready to go. Well we great, it
Speaker 1: might have been doing the same thing, but we don't know.
Speaker 3: You can't just read that into the text like.
Speaker 1: That, Well he shot, so obviously he was getting you know.
Speaker 3: He must have got ready.
Speaker 1: He must have got ready.
Speaker 3: O Jesus, you snooked me.
Speaker 1: What did you think of that? As a kid? That
Speaker 1: was one of the scenes, you know, because that was
Speaker 1: reasonably you know, in the firstye you know, maybe a
Speaker 1: thirty five minute the canteena scene. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 3: So it's a very famous scene. And part of me
Speaker 3: is left wondering why it's such a famous scene because
Speaker 3: to me it looks like a bar scene. And I
Speaker 3: get it's.
Speaker 1: Almost like a there's a bit of a there are
Speaker 1: some Western elements to this, and it is one of
Speaker 1: the Western.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the fact that there's so much in the
Speaker 3: desert that makes it feel a bit that way too,
Speaker 3: So I get it full of cool creatures, and I
Speaker 3: get it's a pretty rowdy bar because a lot of
Speaker 3: people seem to die in it, and no one seems
Speaker 3: to care about that. But I like that scene, with
Speaker 3: anything that involved Han Solo, I was interested in. Yeah
Speaker 3: so your favorite character, No, i'be one you mentioned. I
Speaker 3: don't think I liked Han Solo. Actually, I think I
Speaker 3: felt I liked seeing him like I like Rayson Ford,
Speaker 3: I think, and what I liked about him was just
Speaker 3: his pragmatism and his his lack of moral interest until
Speaker 3: the end. I guess, Yeah, so I like that, but
Speaker 3: I don't know. I guess I wasn't taken by him
Speaker 3: for that reason as well. Like that, he's actually not into.
Speaker 1: He probably goes even though it's incremental shifts over the movie,
Speaker 1: the whole saga. He probably goes on the biggest internal
Speaker 1: emotional journey than any of the other characters.
Speaker 3: Well, he should, because he's starting from the furthest points.
Speaker 3: My impression is, as far as he's concerned this whole
Speaker 3: Rebellion Empire thing, he could tackle.
Speaker 1: The money he's got, there's no time for the force.
Speaker 3: I want to know how he got into debt, what
Speaker 3: did he do with Java?
Speaker 1: That is probably known off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: It's probably in the Star Wars canon. Somewhere right. It's yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: the Solo movie and I want to say this, and
Speaker 1: I've said it, you know, publicly, and you've got this
Speaker 1: air of the Solo Movie is an absolute cracker. So
Speaker 1: I'm so disappointed it got. It didn't do as well
Speaker 1: as it should have. I implore Disney, who will be
Speaker 1: listening to this alongside it as a TV series, if
Speaker 1: you're not going to do it as a sequel, do
Speaker 1: it as a TV I think it's in my top
Speaker 1: five of All Star Wars.
Speaker 3: So you're obviously a very big hand Solo fan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love growing up. Luke is always my favorite.
Speaker 1: The older I got I kind of like I saw
Speaker 1: because the first movie Hans, you know, the Cynic, and
Speaker 1: that didn't play as well too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's what I rolled.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, why.
Speaker 3: Do you like him?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Because he's the older I get like, I recognize his
Speaker 1: charisma and he's swave and he's funny.
Speaker 3: And do you like Aunt Solo? Do you like Harrison Ford?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I like harm because he goes on this He does
Speaker 1: go on this journey and I love the relationship with
Speaker 1: him and Chewy.
Speaker 3: Do you think I should like him? Now I like
Speaker 3: having you only got this far.
Speaker 1: I don't think you should dislike him, but I think
Speaker 1: he's got some growth that you will embrace.
Speaker 3: He kind of already has. Yeah, he's got his medal.
Speaker 1: He got his meddle. Well that Chewy missing out. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't even think of that. But you know what,
Speaker 3: can I say? This is a bad thing to confess
Speaker 3: when you were talking about Star Wars. I'm really bad
Speaker 3: at watching action sequences, but don't take them in. I
Speaker 3: sort of just wait for the dialogue. I don't know
Speaker 3: what it is. And this is true across TV, film whatever.
Speaker 3: Once they get into fighting scene, I just kind of
Speaker 3: vague out and I.
Speaker 1: Sort of did add a bit to be honest, so
Speaker 1: I couldn't.
Speaker 3: Actually tell you all the details of what happened in that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shooting, I get lost a bit. I have become
Speaker 1: more invested in more recently when they they've got they've
Speaker 1: gotten better, and I think they're actually better at giving
Speaker 1: you helping you navigate the clues of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can imagine how well I did with
Speaker 3: Mad Max.
Speaker 1: It's just a road train, yeah to hell.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much. But I just there's a bit that
Speaker 3: just switches off where I just go, just wake me
Speaker 3: up at the air. So I think I have a
Speaker 3: fight and they're gonna win. All right, I've got it.
Speaker 3: But then I miss so much. So I didn't even
Speaker 3: realize is it Han Solo helped out Luke until my
Speaker 3: wife pointed it out right because because there was a
Speaker 3: what I was like, why was Hannah hero? He killed
Speaker 3: the things that were chasing Luke? Ah?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: That was me. Yeah, so I'm not great with action
Speaker 3: and stuff, which weird as a Batman fan.
Speaker 1: Actually yeah, but when it's they were never my favorite
Speaker 1: that you know, the the the fights in the sky,
Speaker 1: the X Wings, they were never my favorite parts of
Speaker 1: Star Wars. It was always stuff on the ground that
Speaker 1: I preferred.
Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting because I would have thought as a
Speaker 3: kid that is what's called.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I don't which to the point where a lot of
Speaker 1: hardcore Star Wars fans they know all the pilot's names
Speaker 1: are that's too and I'm not taking that.
Speaker 3: So is that the right way to follow Star Wars?
Speaker 3: I feel like it's well, it's doing too much to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel I feel you can you could become
Speaker 1: so invested that that it becomes something else. For you,
Speaker 1: that's completely fine, I'm not there's no judgment. But for me,
Speaker 1: I just like it.
Speaker 3: Feels like I need to turning it into something else.
Speaker 3: Though I feel like it's a pretty straightforward, simple, but
Speaker 3: then again, I'm the last person who gets a voice
Speaker 3: on that, so not trying to inject myself into it.
Speaker 3: But it just seems to me like this is just
Speaker 3: a pretty straight up of noun surface level film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's and you forgive it for a lot
Speaker 1: of things. Yeah, you know, like even there's the point
Speaker 1: where where they're on the the ship and the stauntrooper
Speaker 1: is guarding three PO and R two D two in
Speaker 1: that control room and I think the others are in
Speaker 1: the trash compactor Pats at that point, and three Piats
Speaker 1: goes to this, these droids have basically been you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: they've been looking for these droids.
Speaker 3: Of all the trouble.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So three Pats goes to the stormtrooper, I need
Speaker 1: to take R two down to maintenance, And the Stormtrooper says, okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it was weird. What Yeah, I couldn't
Speaker 3: had one job, It's right, I couldn't understand that either.
Speaker 3: The only thing I could think about think of was
Speaker 3: there are a lot of Stormtroopers. Not all of them
Speaker 3: get the same memos. Maybe this one wasn't on shift.
Speaker 3: When that information was passed around, they just clocked on,
Speaker 3: it's just another droid. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, even as I must say, as a kid, I
Speaker 1: kind of forgot, even though Hahn and Luke got into
Speaker 1: like a storm Triper outfit, you know, like for me,
Speaker 1: for me for quite a long time stormtroopers, I kind
Speaker 1: of looked at them his robots. I kind of forgot
Speaker 1: there were humans inside it, even though I'd seen obviously
Speaker 1: our heroes in that costume. I just I just kind
Speaker 1: of always assumed they were like robots.
Speaker 3: That's right. And they even kill a couple to get
Speaker 3: the outfits, don't they. Yeah, so there's something in it,
Speaker 3: but we actually we don't know that they're humans. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it could actually be anything there. Yeah, we don't really know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know now.
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, I really should stop assuming that across anything
Speaker 3: more than just what's happened here. Can I ask you
Speaker 3: a question? If LOO thinking about this, I want your
Speaker 3: film acknoledge across this. I found some of the decisions
Speaker 3: like the directorial decisions about pacing odd yep. So there
Speaker 3: were moments where nothing much is happening, but they really
Speaker 3: just take their time showing this thing. And then there
Speaker 3: are other moments where it seems to me something incredibly
Speaker 3: significant happening and it's just over in a flash. My
Speaker 3: example is before they go out to take down the
Speaker 3: Death Star, they have a meeting where they show plans
Speaker 3: and they say this is what we're going to have
Speaker 3: to do. There's no training exercise, there's no follow up.
Speaker 3: The meeting runs for probably thirty seven seconds, and then
Speaker 3: and Luke says, ah, that before as a kid shooting
Speaker 3: one bats or whatever it was he was, and then
Speaker 3: that's it, right, And I'm like, no, surely that's the
Speaker 3: start of a whole sequence. Like if I'm making.
Speaker 1: You don't need a rocky training montage. No, I mean
Speaker 1: these are these are trained as these people are concerned.
Speaker 3: He's a farm boy. They he just walked in. He
Speaker 3: just says I can fly. It's not Days of Thunder
Speaker 3: where he just says, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: They need all the help they can get.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, but like don't they train?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Because really it's like like if you have to go
Speaker 1: to war. You know, like, I know you obviously you
Speaker 1: trained throughout, but we don't need to see them training.
Speaker 1: But if you like, if you're in danger, if Australia
Speaker 1: was being invaded, yeah, you know, we don't go Okay,
Speaker 1: we're being invaded. Let's let's push up, everyone push ups.
Speaker 3: Sure, there's a problem here because they weren't being.
Speaker 1: Invaded, right, the danger was, danger was looming.
Speaker 3: They didn't know. They didn't know they were trying to
Speaker 3: take out the rebel base.
Speaker 1: Well, older ant had already been destroyed. Yes, so they
Speaker 1: know they're blowing up planets, but their aim with this
Speaker 1: new massive.
Speaker 3: Weapon, but their aim was to take down the Desk Star.
Speaker 3: And as far as I can tell, doing that now
Speaker 3: or in a day or in a week.
Speaker 1: Well you're gonna do some crunches and it's gonna be
Speaker 1: okay for.
Speaker 3: I don't know why, for you to push up some crunches,
Speaker 3: start jumps as well. But they're trying to okay, sure,
Speaker 3: but they're trying to do a very particular maneuver with
Speaker 3: no margin for error. I just would have thought there'd
Speaker 3: be some kind of specific training that you would do
Speaker 3: for that particular now, so they just.
Speaker 1: Hate these guys.
Speaker 3: The kid in a fighter and see what happens.
Speaker 1: These guys are like, well, Luke does refer to himself
Speaker 1: that is because he wants to. He thinks he can
Speaker 1: fly the minium falcon. He's done some.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but who does he tell that to some anonymous
Speaker 3: guy in the meeting and does he say something to happen?
Speaker 1: That's it? Is that a detail of the film that
Speaker 1: we need that like do we need do we need
Speaker 1: a training sequence? Do you really think?
Speaker 3: Well? I think so, but I'm prepared to say no,
Speaker 3: except that the next sequence is them all getting in
Speaker 3: their various fight things what do.
Speaker 1: You call them? X wings?
Speaker 3: The X wings, And it feels like they just spent
Speaker 3: about ten minutes with people buckling up. Every single person
Speaker 3: seems to get into an XT wing. There's no speed
Speaker 3: about it. There's no kind of like if it was
Speaker 3: top gun or something. I haven't even seen top gun
Speaker 3: there that's another one, but like I feel like they
Speaker 3: get in and then we go the thing would close
Speaker 3: over them and then we're off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, none of that.
Speaker 3: It's just like I just climb up, let's just shut that, okay.
Speaker 1: It's like this scene is just taking somebody strugging with
Speaker 1: this seatbelt.
Speaker 3: They never never get someone should have. That would have
Speaker 3: added a narrative dimension. Nothing else. It was just it
Speaker 3: just went on and on, and I'm like, hang on,
Speaker 3: how do.
Speaker 1: You remember it going on with that line? I remember
Speaker 1: that the meeting and the meetings are a big Star
Speaker 1: Wars thing, like they have their meetings around you, you know,
Speaker 1: And and the holograms get more impressive as they go on.
Speaker 1: The computer set up, you hope, is pretty shoddy, which
Speaker 1: I liked, by the way.
Speaker 3: I liked it. Yeah, it's like everyone was playing Space Invaders.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're all there, like the Empire happens in Empire.
Speaker 1: Cliff Craven's there from Cheers yea, yeah, yeah, yeah he's
Speaker 1: in there. So yeah, that did. None of that has
Speaker 1: ever bothered me.
Speaker 3: Well clearly has anyone else ever noted it?
Speaker 1: Am?
Speaker 3: I completely on my own?
Speaker 1: Not not really. I think it's just like the calm,
Speaker 1: but you know, that's kind of slight calm before the storm. Sure,
Speaker 1: but I don't know, I don't remember it being that slow.
Speaker 3: It Maybe it wasn't. I just noticed today as I
Speaker 3: was watching it, just before I came in here. Maybe
Speaker 3: it's because I was like, I've got to get this done.
Speaker 3: Actually don't. I don't want to get in here and
Speaker 3: not know who took out the death start. Maybe that
Speaker 3: was part of it, but I was just like, there's
Speaker 3: no information here, there's nothing anyway. I have to go
Speaker 3: back and watch it now.
Speaker 1: It was interesting what you said earlier about you got
Speaker 1: the first time you watched it. You and I, that's
Speaker 1: that's the end? Is that you know? Because when George
Speaker 1: Lucas first delivered his final draft, it was actually, there's
Speaker 1: two hundred pages line. The average screenplay is between one
Speaker 1: hundred and hundred twenty pages, and it was two hundred pages,
Speaker 1: and they said, obviously it's too long, and so he
Speaker 1: basically only shot the first act. So this is why
Speaker 1: Star Wars became a trilogy.
Speaker 3: So is it always a trilogy?
Speaker 1: Well not when he wrote two hundred page script. But
Speaker 1: I'm just going to take the first act and that
Speaker 1: is going to be so the plan. Obviously it's changed
Speaker 1: that when they became different movies. But the plan would
Speaker 1: have been like they have Star Wars in post strikes
Speaker 1: back in and return to the Jedi in some form,
Speaker 1: probably as the one film.
Speaker 3: That's interesting. So today yeah, is that what they would make?
Speaker 3: Like you if Star Wars has just thought of right now,
Speaker 3: would they make one film? No, you don't reckon it?
Speaker 1: No, because we live in a franchise world.
Speaker 3: I said no, but you could still franchise after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think knowing because.
Speaker 3: I'm just thinking about the speed of the film, the
Speaker 3: fact that it slow to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they might do Star Wars differently. You might
Speaker 1: get a bit more backstory on on Hahn and Layer potentially,
Speaker 1: but you know, Luke might shed a tear over Uncle Owen.
Speaker 3: Kind of luck that he didn't Uncle. It's pretty gruesome.
Speaker 3: He comes home and it's skeletons and soften that.
Speaker 1: No, every time I see Joel Legend and shiver because
Speaker 1: he plays Uncle Owen in the in the prequels, does
Speaker 1: he yes?
Speaker 3: Oh god? So this is why Joel Leedgend is a
Speaker 3: much bigger deal than I understood.
Speaker 1: Okay, I love his stuff, but I was like, oh right,
Speaker 1: he's a part of the Star Wars family. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I reckon that's so.
Speaker 3: Have I done?
Speaker 1: Okay? Like miss no One, I love that you really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. That was that was really cool and I.
Speaker 3: Get the world. Sorry, No, that's that's putting it to hog.
Speaker 3: I get why people are obsessed with the world. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I think the key to it is the aesthetic.
Speaker 3: And by the way, I think one of the keys
Speaker 3: to the aesthetic is the juxtaposition between space and hypertechnology
Speaker 3: and all that stuff and just the desolate nature of
Speaker 3: the desert. You just seem to go from like their
Speaker 3: their total extremes.
Speaker 1: Yes, and the more Star Wars goes along, you experienced
Speaker 1: new worlds like there's a you know, there's like an
Speaker 1: ice planet, an empire, there's one in the clouds where
Speaker 1: you meet Lendo Corisian and then you know Jedi. You
Speaker 1: got the end Or, which is like jungle, and then
Speaker 1: the Ewoks are Ah.
Speaker 3: If Chebuca lives on end Or, you must have quit.
Speaker 3: This is a South Park reference. I don't understand that sentence,
Speaker 3: but now it's beginning to make sense, right. Do you
Speaker 3: remember this? It was a court proceeding and they got
Speaker 3: a lawyer who was based I think on the OJ
Speaker 3: lawyer who came on and he just made the jury's
Speaker 3: head explode by saying, this is Chebucca and he's a
Speaker 3: Wookie and if he lives, if it lives then you
Speaker 3: must have quit. And I was like, what, No, I'm
Speaker 3: can understand it. But it's their version of if the
Speaker 3: gloves don't fit, you must have quit.
Speaker 1: Something like that is not from end or and doesn't
Speaker 1: live on.
Speaker 3: It, therefore you must have quit. If he does.
Speaker 1: There you got it? No, I I do. I do
Speaker 1: love that you enjoyed it. Will you watch Empire Strikes Back? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Will you come back and talk to us about that?
Speaker 3: Sure? They've been I got four years to get that done.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so if you if you're keen to watch
Speaker 1: it sooner rather than later, I can. I can fit
Speaker 1: you in later. Maybe it's a season finale.
Speaker 3: Sure well, whatever your schedule is made, I will I
Speaker 3: will slot ride in. I feel like, actually I could
Speaker 3: be your guest every week on this. I don't think
Speaker 3: i've seen anything really well.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I always imagined this podcast really and
Speaker 1: in the inturro means movie lovers, and Rachel Corbett was
Speaker 1: one who you know, is a great friend of both
Speaker 1: of ours who did say to me, listen, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily watch a lot of films, and I was like, okay, well, well,
Speaker 1: but then I thought, even if you don't watch a
Speaker 1: lot of films. There's still movies that you like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so everyone's a movie lover. Yeah, some people watch
Speaker 1: more of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. This one more thing. When a long you know,
Speaker 1: a long, long time ago came up, did you have
Speaker 1: any kind of because I have an emotional reaction, obviously
Speaker 1: I might expect you to have an emotional reaction. I did, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you did. I did.
Speaker 3: It was tainted a little bit for reasons I've already
Speaker 3: explained by the fact that it said episode four and
Speaker 3: new Hope at the start.
Speaker 1: Which new Hope, by the way, was added later.
Speaker 3: Originally the record, I assuming you hope was added recently,
Speaker 3: like when they did the four or five six bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure which year, if it was as
Speaker 1: recent as that, because I think that was twenty ten
Speaker 1: when they re released. I think I think it was
Speaker 1: earlier than that. They may have done a print of
Speaker 1: it without changing any other new shots or anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, But anyway, that annoyed me because I want
Speaker 3: the original, right. But yeah, it because it's so famous
Speaker 3: and it's so iconic. Also because through contemporary eyes it's
Speaker 3: so cheap, like it's just clearly just rolled in some
Speaker 3: kind of Rolodex thing and mirrors or some such. But
Speaker 3: it's so famous, and because it's at the start, and
Speaker 3: that music as well, which is so well known and
Speaker 3: so brilliant. It's that feeling which I feel like my
Speaker 3: personality is particularly attuned to, of I'm about to witness
Speaker 3: something major and historic and I'm being inducted into this
Speaker 3: grand tradition of something. I just that I feel something.
Speaker 3: I feel that very strongly, that it's amazing, and so
Speaker 3: to see that and see it as something other than
Speaker 3: a trope or a gag, but as the real thing. Honestly,
Speaker 3: it felt almost like it wouldn't be going too far
Speaker 3: to say it for like an honor, like I was
Speaker 3: finally being allowed to, you know, be part of this,
Speaker 3: to connect to that.
Speaker 1: That's so cool, because I am sure I did a
Speaker 1: little bit of research trying to find it, to verify
Speaker 1: this fact, and I couldn't quite find it. I had
Speaker 1: a very quick look. But I'm sure I've heard the
Speaker 1: story that George Lucas showed the film an early cut.
Speaker 1: Because what I love about this at this time is,
Speaker 1: you know, it was the yeah, the new Hollywood, influenced
Speaker 1: by the French Wave, and you had Scorsese, French for Coppola,
Speaker 1: Brian Depalmer, Bogdanovitch, and Steven Spielberg and they all kind
Speaker 1: of like hang out and shared ideas, and so George
Speaker 1: Lucas shows the cuts all those you know, most of
Speaker 1: those guys, and there's varying opinions on it. Spielberg's the
Speaker 1: only one who's like, when I say, very opinions. Actually,
Speaker 1: Spielberg's the only one who says, you've got like a
Speaker 1: massive hit here, like really, this is a hit, And
Speaker 1: everyone else is like, oh, it's messy. And I think
Speaker 1: it's Coppola who says, you like, there's so much I
Speaker 1: don't understand it. I don't, right. You need you need
Speaker 1: something at the top to explain where we are, and.
Speaker 3: This is the shortest way to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I'm not sure if he suggests the
Speaker 1: space crawl, as you know we call it, but oh,
Speaker 1: is that.
Speaker 3: What it's called?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love the perspective in it too.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It is an interesting way of how
Speaker 1: it's shot. I probably can't explain it. I haven't got
Speaker 1: my head around it enough to explain it right now,
Speaker 1: but look it up. How they shot that it's it's
Speaker 1: it's quite. The great thing is it's also it's before
Speaker 1: and that's why when they put the scenes in later on,
Speaker 1: it was a bit did you need to? Because it's
Speaker 1: all hands on, hands on stuff, and that's what I
Speaker 1: love about some of the stuff they did with the
Speaker 1: new ones, Like the prequels, they went total c g
Speaker 1: I with the new ones like BB eight, who's a
Speaker 1: great addition to the Droid world, is all done. I've
Speaker 1: been in the room.
Speaker 3: Of bb ah, right, So it's old school.
Speaker 1: It's old school, but he's there.
Speaker 3: You've gone analogue in the room.
Speaker 1: Absolutely as much as they possibly can. They've done that,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 3: Think it's part of the charm of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well mean you see this fascinating behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. And the way they you know, the millennium falcons,
Speaker 1: like you know, the size of a football.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's like what, Yeah, does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Is the death start really small too? Because I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about when they're flying as valleys, I'm like, that's pretty
Speaker 3: extraordinary start.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's almost got like you know, imagine like
Speaker 1: almost a lego world. Yeah, built with sty of fom
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be and the cameras is kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, like this is pretty well fed.
Speaker 1: It's it's really for nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 3: And no green screen involved.
Speaker 1: Uh, there's there would be green screen. So the pilots
Speaker 1: in there, Yeah, when they're in the Millennium Falcon particular,
Speaker 1: and you know they would be looking at nothing. There's
Speaker 1: one shot of looking the type not the type fight
Speaker 1: of the X Wing when he's it's fazzy and he's
Speaker 1: really joeling up and down and obviously obviously they've got
Speaker 1: the crews shaking the sides of their to get the moon,
Speaker 1: but they're doing a little bit too much. Is really
Speaker 1: he's going for it because he's like I think it's
Speaker 1: this after Who's blade at the best, and it's like
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be the Boddy Throttles.
Speaker 3: Oh, you just reminded me. Yes, I was genuinely surprised
Speaker 3: at how much, how little of an event and how
Speaker 3: anticlimactic the moment that the bomb goes into the Death
Speaker 3: Star actually was it happens like that. It's just it's gone, Yeah,
Speaker 3: like I'm waiting for the hero moment where the ball
Speaker 3: you know, where there's a swish, you know what I
Speaker 3: mean like it's slow motion and the crowd cheers like
Speaker 3: I was waiting for that, that's the thing. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: can miss.
Speaker 1: It, and I think they kind of do try to
Speaker 1: go for that, but I don't think it. I agree doesn't.
Speaker 1: Watching it last night for some reason, I realized that
Speaker 1: even more. Maybe I was watching it with more of
Speaker 1: a critical eye. But yeah, you don't get that kind
Speaker 1: of lead up of like, oh, here we go. No, No,
Speaker 1: it's like it's.
Speaker 3: In fact, if anything, there's so much stuff hanging happening
Speaker 3: around it, like he doesn't want to die if I'm
Speaker 3: gonna get shot, and all this sort of stuff, He's
Speaker 3: got to get maneuver or whatever. That that's just part
Speaker 3: of the move. It's not even the main focus of
Speaker 3: that moment. It's so weird. And I remember seeing it
Speaker 3: and going is that what I think it is? Or
Speaker 3: is that something else? And I'm still waiting for the
Speaker 3: and then he was off because he'd succeeded, and I
Speaker 3: was like, and then suddenly it blows up. It's like, well,
Speaker 3: I guess that was what it was. I just it
Speaker 3: was very strange. I feel it's an oddly paced film
Speaker 3: for me, Like, yeah, the moments that you would think
Speaker 3: are to be extenuated aren't, And the moments that you
Speaker 3: would think it'd be condensed aren't. It's odd for me,
Speaker 3: I just can't. I don't know if that's just me
Speaker 3: or maybe it's just convention has taken it.
Speaker 1: I think also back in back back then, when you're
Speaker 1: shooting on film and I'm not sure how long like
Speaker 1: the dailies come, you know, like now you shoot and
Speaker 1: you watch what you shot that night after you'll go
Speaker 1: home and you watch what you got and if you
Speaker 1: need to reshoot more the next day, like I'm sure
Speaker 1: the idea and that's why you hear more about reshoots
Speaker 1: now than you used to, not the it didn't happen
Speaker 1: French for a Coppler while making Apocalypse Now, they didn't
Speaker 1: have any kind of like developing film development labs in
Speaker 1: the Philippines, so he had he didn't see any of
Speaker 1: Apocalypse Now until he got back to California, you know,
Speaker 1: so sometimes that there would have been times when he's like,
Speaker 1: this is what we got.
Speaker 3: So do you reckon? It's possible that was just not
Speaker 3: a mistake, but like that was circumstance. Possibly possibly, I mean,
Speaker 3: because it's the biggest thing in the whole film, like it, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, I never noticed that. It's really
Speaker 1: weird that you pointed out. I've never noticed that really
Speaker 1: until last night, which is strange because I've said it
Speaker 1: so many times and it's it's it's obviously been fine
Speaker 1: with me.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think maybe because you saw it, you
Speaker 3: would only have been surprised that they blocked the desk
Speaker 3: star once, right, Yeah, exactly, and you would have been
Speaker 3: what how old were you eight?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm glad the Force is with you. You're a
Speaker 1: Jedi now. I hope haven't really, No, no, you haven't.
Speaker 1: I'm relieved. Like I said, it was, Star Wars is
Speaker 1: safe in my heart. One thing I'll suggest to you,
Speaker 1: and I think young Zada will really enjoy it, is
Speaker 1: The Mandalorian is a cracking series. It's like, you don't
Speaker 1: really have to I think it takes. It happens after
Speaker 1: the Return of the Jedi, but it is a simple
Speaker 1: story of a boundy hunter Mandalorian, who is given a
Speaker 1: job decides that he's going to be something different with
Speaker 1: the job. He needs to protect this child baby Yoda
Speaker 1: you may have heard about. He's not actually Yoda, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's more like a Western and it's
Speaker 1: it's very episodic in a way, but it does have
Speaker 1: the overriding and some callbacks to you know, the series
Speaker 1: that we know, but that's all ahead of you. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for watching it. I know this podcast comes
Speaker 1: with homework. I appreciate it, and we'll see you Monday.
Speaker 1: Into the project, all right, that was a long time coming,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad. I was genuinely nervous a while
Speaker 1: he was gonna hate Star Wars and tear it apart
Speaker 1: for me. Not that he would do that. He's not
Speaker 1: that kind of bloke. He loves He's got his own loves.
Speaker 1: Like you know, he loves Queen like Queen is his
Speaker 1: Star Wars to me. Queen the Band is his Star
Speaker 1: Wars for me. So I certainly wouldn't try to tear
Speaker 1: Queen down in front of him, and I knew he
Speaker 1: wouldn't do the same thing with Star Wars for me.
Speaker 1: But like I said, I mentioned this idea to him
Speaker 1: many years ago, and it was finally good to sit
Speaker 1: down and get this record. Even though we see each
Speaker 1: other more than any of the other guests I have
Speaker 1: had on So he's a busy bloke. I'm glad he
Speaker 1: carved out some time to chat to me about that
Speaker 1: galaxy far far away. Thank you for listening Yasney Podcast
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Send me anything. There were probably
Speaker 1: Star Wars fans listening who I may have got some
Speaker 1: stuff wrong. Like I said, I'm not the deepest of diver,
Speaker 1: even the movies that I absolutely love, like, there are
Speaker 1: people who dive way deeper than I do. So I
Speaker 1: got something wrong. If you just want to let us
Speaker 1: know something that you find really interesting about Star Wars
Speaker 1: or any of the films that we cover, and you'
Speaker 1: ain'tee nothing yet, please let us know. I'm loving all
Speaker 1: the feedback. Please. If you get time to like and
Speaker 1: subscribe and follow and do all the things, you can
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram PJ Hallier And that's where I
Speaker 1: kind of post stuff. There is a Yasny Instagram page.
Speaker 1: It's got like three things on it. I just found it.
Speaker 1: You know, having one Instagram page is enough. I don't
Speaker 1: need to so PJ Hallier is my Instagram handle. Awesome,
Speaker 1: my Twitter handle. Thank you to Derek. My is from
Speaker 1: Casaways Studios dot com. If you're getting a podcast up,
Speaker 1: Derek is the man you need to speak to. He
Speaker 1: will get you up and running. He's done a great
Speaker 1: job putting this podcast together. Thank you, Derek, and.
Speaker 3: That is all.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Next week on the show, we're
Speaker 1: following up. It's getting very close to Christmas and we
Speaker 1: are going to have a Christmas movie, maybe the greatest
Speaker 1: Christmas movie of all time. It's a wonderful life. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, who better to discuss this? A wonderful life?
Speaker 1: But I don't know what I'm getting into. Broden Kelly
Speaker 1: from Auntie Donna. They've got a Netflix special, Arnie Donna's
Speaker 1: Big Old House of Fun. It is hilarious. Please go
Speaker 1: and watch it. Support these Aussie guy, I mean, they
Speaker 1: don't really even need to support any more. They've got
Speaker 1: their own Netflix special. But they are genuinely great guys,
Speaker 1: hugely talented. They've done the hard yards and it's so
Speaker 1: good to see their hard work paying off with their
Speaker 1: Netflix special. Broden Kelly. Next week and you ain't see
Speaker 1: nothing yet. Speaking about Jimmy Stewart's It's a Wonderful Life,
Speaker 1: It'll be a wonderful episode I'm sure. Until then, see ya.
Speaker 1: And so we leave Old Pete safe and south, and
Speaker 1: to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a
Speaker 1: pleasant good night